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Frogzuk Dragonian Freelancers Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.10.26 14:43:00 - [1] I would like to bring to the table my thoughts on game mechanics, the issue of logging off in hostile space. Pilots of DGF are forbidden to employ this tatic as i honestly believe it is not the way EVE should be played, and attacking force must set up a base of operation within the hostile system, placing a pos or taking the system from the defenders, but if they fail then they should not be allowed to log off in the hostile system the attackers must leave that system and return to npc or home territory if they have failed to achieve the objective ! Be good to see what others think about this ... froggy
Rexthor Hammerfists Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.26 14:46:00 - [2] its pretty annoying seeing most hostiles "crashing" when theyre in structure, rlly hope ccp can sort that crap out. - Purple Conquered The World, We the Universe.
Hennry Fromer Gallente radiated space gerbils	Posted - 2006.10.26 14:49:00 - [3] How would that work, Like the POS setting you couldn't reside in non-npc space without standing and if you crashed while there you get dumped at gate or something?
Frogzuk Dragonian Freelancers Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.10.26 15:15:00 - [4] if you crash you then have a warp into the system minus ability to activate guns, to reactivate you need to dock, park in friendly pos or jump out of system .... possible solution to the cta issue froggy
evistin Multiverse Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.26 15:23:00 - [5] Edited by: evistin on 26/10/2006 15:23:39 its actually pretty hard to control this problem, if the person "crashes" while in Structure, how do you know its for real or not? Any rule applied is in the end unenforceable or simply not applied to the majority. If I was in enemy space and had a RL emergency (say I was on stand by for my job) I would have to log regardless of where I am. There is good intention there, but ultimatly it can't be enforced properly. It is possible the eve client will crash when X target get on screen. ----------- Management and Leadership û The Eve-online Guide
CRUSH3R Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.10.26 15:26:00 - [6] stop crying and go fighting. An AXE raven logs off as seeng asolo vagabond alhtough there's his ally-mate on carier in 120 km... instead of accept fighters and kill my vaga. And there millions of such situations. I understand that if you can't win you should do smthng to keep your morals but maybe you will find another way to do it?
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.10.26 15:28:00 - [7] Most people crash in bubbles. CCP really needs to check mobile warp disruptors and interdictor speres. The 'warp-scramble function' seems to cause client crashes.
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.26 15:32:00 - [8] Originally by: Plutoinum Most people crash in bubbles. CCP really needs to check mobile warp disruptors and interdictor speres. The 'warp-scramble function' seems to cause client crashes. bahahaha
Lamb Chop KIA Corp	Posted - 2006.10.26 15:35:00 - [9] Originally by: Plutoinum Most people crash in bubbles. CCP really needs to check mobile warp disruptors and interdictor speres. The 'warp-scramble function' seems to cause client crashes. It appears to be effecting the pods worst than others. Every time i scramble one, he CTD's... Very bad programming CCP
Saran Tal Dragons Of Redemption Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.10.26 15:54:00 - [10] Originally by: Plutoinum Most people crash in bubbles. CCP really needs to check mobile warp disruptors and interdictor speres. The 'warp-scramble function' seems to cause client crashes. this is one fo the most annoying things i ahve come accross in eve afaik if you are scrambled with a normal ship scram and you 'ctd' you dont warp off... but if your in a dictor bubble or mobile bubble the scram effect is negated by the 'ctd'... makes saran a sad cookie ~Dragons of Redemption [DORM] Recruitment; Pm me In-Game~ Don John and Givla are my Homeboys
Par'Arinia United Society Starfleet Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.10.26 16:10:00 - [11] I agree with the OP that logging in hostile space violates the intended nature of the game. Simple solution: Any ship logging off in space remains in space, unless that ship belongs to the alliance that holds sovereignty in the system. Ships logging off at POS are exempt from this.
Shin Ra BURN EDEN	Posted - 2006.10.26 16:43:00 - [12] This thread is not about logging in combat. It is about fighting someone, then logging off after combat in one of their systems. Something BE does all the time. Can you honestly image what would happen if we put a small pos up in AZN, NOL or EC. It would get taken down in a few hours. If you roam and/or are in a small corp, you have to log in space at the end of a night. There are no other options. Unless your in a huge alliance doing a big invasion its simple not feesible to go "home" or back to empire at the end of a night.
Roland 99 Minmatar Battlestars Imperium Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.26 16:48:00 - [13] People are most definitely logging out to avoid interdiction spheres and I feel its the reason acsn's doomsday was so inneffective. The entire fleet was caught in bubbles when the 15 second timer ( stupid too) went off and everyone just logged off and escaped the bubble its bullsh-t if you ask me _______ My pod is filled with beer. Dont make me spring a leak
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.26 16:59:00 - [14] Edited by: James Lyrus on 26/10/2006 17:02:00 It may not officially be against the rules, but ... IMO it should be. I'd seriously consider kicking someone out of a corp for doing it. I don't think pilots should be able to log off and disappear. Particularly when you've gone to the effort to lock down a system to catch someone. I don't mind _too_ much logging off in 'arbitrary space', although I'm starting to think emergency warps should be as far as your cap will take you once the 'standard' timer elapses. The idea being that when you log in, you'll have a long long warp, and a cap that's no where near full. I'd be of the opinion that if you log off and it's your sov, you disappear in a matter of minutes. If it's 'neutral' space, you warp off out of the base scan range, and then disappear after about 30 minutes or an hour. So if someone was there after you, they have plenty of time to catch you, but the odds of someone just popping an observator and finding you accidentally are low. And it it's someone elses sov, then your ship persists. Maybe with a caveat that if you fit a cloak, your ship cloaks after warping off or something. It really does get annoying chasing pilots around a constellation, who log on, look for the cheap kill, and log off again if they don't find it, or if there's an active response. Goes double if it's a logoff to dodge out of interdiction/warp bubbles. About the only time I think it's remotely reasonable to do so is when it's in reaction to something like a node crash - logging in after a node's just gone down can easily turn into a turkey shoot.
Mynas Atoch Caldari ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.26 17:12:00 - [15] So I'm sitting there in the D2 interdiction sphere, still jump-cloaked, in a hauler with more than 100m isk of cargo expanders, and I'm thinking .. I can get out of this .. all I have to do is press ctrl-Q. And I just couldn't do it. I don't see the point in playing a game if you are going to cheat. So I lost the ship. What would YOU have done? Myn
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.10.26 17:19:00 - [16] Edited by: Plutoinum on 26/10/2006 17:21:33 Originally by: Shin Ra This thread is not about logging in combat. I know. And I even agree that logging off in hostile territory needs to be possible somewhere, because you often don't know, how long an OP lasts or how long you have to stay in hostile space. But one thing is for sure, you have to log off at some point, because of RL. I don't want to lose my ship, because of that. It would already help a bit, if people were not able to log around gates, in belts, at stations and mid-warp or wouldn't at least disappear from space after one minute, if they did so.
Torok Nakaht D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2006.10.26 17:21:00 - [17] If i ever crash or logg its due to frozen screen or ctd i hate it sumtimes but you have to live with it
Derrios Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.10.26 17:24:00 - [18] if you Control+Q or close client. You should remain in game if aggressed. Simple as that. It's very annoying to see insert name here be in structure and just magically POOF. No eve warp, no nothing, just gone. The worst thing is, this is being employed via a means to blockade run, and disrupt combat, primarily when called primary. Secondly, it is known that you can open multiple clients and log in over yourself to also attain a similar result. Both these things need to be looked at, and trust me. Changing the disappear time for an aggressed ship isnt that hard -_- ----------------------------------------------- Originally by: wierchas noobhunter hmm blowing ascn carebears in empire ? can i join ?
Derrios Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.10.26 17:50:00 - [19] Originally by: Shin Ra This thread is not about logging in combat. It is about fighting someone, then logging off after combat in one of their systems. Something BE does all the time. Can you honestly image what would happen if we put a small pos up in AZN, NOL or EC. It would get taken down in a few hours. If you roam and/or are in a small corp, you have to log in space at the end of a night. There are no other options. Unless your in a huge alliance doing a big invasion its simple not feesible to go "home" or back to empire at the end of a night. I didnt bother reading most the replys, but if thats true, people are dumb.~ There is nothing wrong with leaving a fight when you know you're beat. What force goes in and says "Ok 100% mortality rate or you guys are fired." A Psychotic one. ----------------------------------------------- Originally by: wierchas noobhunter hmm blowing ascn carebears in empire ? can i join ?
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.26 17:53:00 - [20] Originally by: Derrios if you Control+Q or close client. Power off modem? --------- It's great being a Caldari, ain't it? Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Sexorella hotz Beasts of Burden Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.10.26 18:25:00 - [21] I'm a little more concerned about the enemy fleets trickling into home systems of other alliances in small groups, logging so they're untouchable/unaccounted for and being able to show up right in that system, yeah, midfight if you crash and aren't scrambled you should be autowarped. But you're ship should not disappear, cause alledgedly you can come right back on and go back to the fight as you left it. Invading a system and logging it chicken ** cause it **s over the defense in a way that the game is not meant to allow. An assault should not start with a simultaneous login in an enemy system but from a coordinated departure from a home system...
Shardrael Caldari AWE Corporation Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.26 19:47:00 - [22] my personal oppinion is inline with the original posters, I would like to see a day in eve when a corporation alliance or whatever sized entity you want can actually own a section of space, part of the requirement for this would be not allowing enemies to simply vanish from your own space, I am sorry how much this would effect all the small roaming pvpers shin ra is a good one that comes to mind but there are a ton of em out there. I just dont see it as realistic that someone can come into your space and then vanish completely. and spare me the "this is a game not real life !!11!!1" replies cause this is just my oppinion. I would be happy even with just a longer disappear timer, maybe an hour until your ship leaves space, so that probers can find you and deal with you. anyhow 100% personal oppinion take it or leave it
Unfamed II FinFleet Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.27 00:14:00 - [23] Make logoffed ships stay in space 23/7 when in hostile sovereignty system.
INZi coracao ardente	Posted - 2006.10.27 02:45:00 - [24] i would like to see the day u crash in a 1on1 or in a bubble which you can escape from. the rabble rabble we would see then: PETITION PETINTION BASTARDOUS CCP. get on, live with it
NATMav F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2006.10.27 04:55:00 - [25] Originally by: Mynas Atoch So I'm sitting there in the D2 interdiction sphere, still jump-cloaked, in a hauler with more than 100m isk of cargo expanders, and I'm thinking .. I can get out of this .. all I have to do is press ctrl-Q. And I just couldn't do it. I don't see the point in playing a game if you are going to cheat. So I lost the ship. What would YOU have done? Myn You have higher standards than many I have run into. Personally, I've never done it, but I've seen it happen more times than I can count. It's become the defacto bubble defense, and that definitely needs to be addressed. If you log off in a bubble, you should not warp, no matter the circumstance. You should also not be able to log into an alt for at least one minute following logoff. Far more players will die as they should have than the tiny percentage that actually DO crash in a bubble. Originally by: Goberth Ludwig Damn what happens to all those people whose self esteem doesnt depend on eve then? Oh right, I'm asking in the wrong place
WETRAIN Minmatar Solidline Enterprise Kith of Venal	Posted - 2006.10.27 05:04:00 - [26] happend to me today ... shoot a domi .. 5% hull... dissapeared .. not on scan.. not on local... WTF? other say petition .. for what .. do get the usual " There is no evidence that the mofo did that " lol ... ----------------------------------------- When People are Ready the Master will come. - Original by Anihilus - -----------------------------------------
Uinein Caldari Constructive Influence	Posted - 2006.10.27 05:09:00 - [27] You can either logg of in space or you can't. The rule has to apply to all.
Nebuli Caldari Art of War Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.10.27 05:29:00 - [28] Simple solution I think would be.. If you crash, you crash as now, no one minds people crashing, it happens all the time, cant be helped. But to log off takes 30 secs? alot of other MMOs require you to stand still for 30 secs while a counter counts down and you log off, or you have to sit down or something like that. Why not have the same system in EVE? you have to NOT be in a fight, not have any modules activated, and it takes 30 secs on a timer to log off? CEO - Art of War
riana maldun	Posted - 2006.10.27 07:16:00 - [29] Edited by: riana maldun on 27/10/2006 07:16:52 edit: woops wrong char will post with main below
Shardrael Caldari AWE Corporation Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.27 07:18:00 - [30] find it rather amusing that the thread was about logging off in enemy space not borderline exploits or whatever they are to escape bubble camps, although a discussion about that is probably warranted I dont think this one was in regards to that thread derailing ftl sry this is the right char, reposted full text for when mods delete the no corp ticker nub alt
DeWieKat Xenobytes Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.10.27 07:25:00 - [31] Edited by: DeWieKat on 27/10/2006 07:26:01 a bit strange that this topic comes from dgf exactly at this time... coincidence? anyway, i count myself to those people who allready expressed their opinion in a way that to implement something like time barriers for loggin-off or several limitations to fighting ability after relogging is almost impossible because off situations in real life (RL comes first, even if its hard to understant for some ppl here) or the complexity of the client remote control mechanics via internet, where alot can happen without any influence of the player. id like to aproach differently, instead of taking on ccp, u all should check what¦s allready have been done to deal with logging off or safe spot hinding. there are covert op¦s with probes and there is agression timer. of course ship without agression disappears very quickly but the enemy who came in to fight u wont just stay safespoted without doing anything.
Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2006.10.27 08:08:00 - [32] Originally by: Shin Ra If you roam and/or are in a small corp, you have to log in space at the end of a night. There are no other options. When I was in certain big PvP alliance doing frigate roams deep inside enemy space and finding out that I had to quit, it was always fun on next day log on and find your deep inside enemy space and home is far away. Part of forum movement known as "It's great being Amarr, ain't it?Ö" To be Kali, or not to be Lagi
Wild Rho Amarr Black Omega Security	Posted - 2006.10.27 08:33:00 - [33] tbh there should be a simple 15min timer when you log off regardless of if you are flagged or where you are. That and if you log off bubbles etc still hold you in place. It's a fairly simple change (just change the existing timers) but would stop alot of the crap that goes on. Of course it doesn't address login traps but that's a whole different problem. I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it.
Frogzuk Dragonian Freelancers	Posted - 2006.10.27 08:44:00 - [34] Originally by: DeWieKat Edited by: DeWieKat on 27/10/2006 07:26:01 a bit strange that this topic comes from dgf exactly at this time... coincidence? lol waiting for someone to say something like this, its no coincidence as i have not mentioned any other alliance in this discussion. Lets move on with this as some good points have been raised. Yes the orginal post refers to logging off in hostile space nothing to do with logging off when i bubble or in half structure those are different animals and require a different thread ! froggy
Le Cardinal ECP Rogues Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.27 08:49:00 - [35] What i miss is a reply from the devs. They seem to ignore these htreads on purpose. There are dozen of threads about this. Ive always been stupid enough to not log off if i jump in a camp and know i will lose my ship. But i have some pride. Its easy to save a 200m ship with another 200m with fittings if you just log ECP.R killboard
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.27 09:08:00 - [36] Originally by: Wild Rho tbh there should be a simple 15min timer when you log off regardless of if you are flagged or where you are. That and if you log off bubbles etc still hold you in place. It's a fairly simple change (just change the existing timers) but would stop alot of the crap that goes on. Of course it doesn't address login traps but that's a whole different problem. I agree with most of it. That part with bubbles is sort of problematic due to emergency warps /lag / node crashes. Not that i don't support it (atm it's stupid) but i think eve client can't distinguish between ctrl+q and lag. Also probing will be changed and i think it will seriously change safespotting.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.27 09:19:00 - [37] Originally by: Mynas Atoch So I'm sitting there in the D2 interdiction sphere, still jump-cloaked, in a hauler with more than 100m isk of cargo expanders, and I'm thinking .. I can get out of this .. all I have to do is press ctrl-Q. And I just couldn't do it. I don't see the point in playing a game if you are going to cheat. So I lost the ship. What would YOU have done? Myn Cursed a lot. Thought very hard. Then decloak and make a run for it. As for logging off, I don't think there's (m)any occasions where I've logged off in 'hostile territory'. It's only very rare that I'm logged off not at a POS or station. Personally, I don't think this situation will change - there are many good reasons that logoffs/disconnects need to happen. I've seen several occasions where people crash to desktop when jumping through a gate. Sometimes you do just have to log somewhere, despite being far from somewhere convenient to do so. I don't think that's like to change. The change in game mechanic I'd like to see involves a longer warp (max range according to your cap perhaps?), but a longer logoff timer (an hour or more) if not in space where you hold sov. THe idea being that if someone does logoffski and someone spotted 'em doing it, then they'd be fairly easy to probe. If they did so in an out of the way system, then the odds of accidentally getting spotted would be low. Then again, how about we write a Pledge? "I, <Character name>, do solemnly swear that I consider log in and log out to be separate from game mechanics. I shall log off only when I am finished playing, and shall as far as is possible, only do so when I am somewhere safe, in that it would be improbable that someone would accidentally find (and kill) me if I stayed logged in. Given that I am logged off somewhere safe and convenient, I will therefore not use my logging on to create an ambush." Sounds reasonable? Worth a new thread? :)
Ishmael Hansen No Quarter. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.10.27 11:22:00 - [38] IMO: - Warp disruptor bubbles and dictor bubbles should count as agression. - Hitting ctrl-q should trigger a 15 minute loggin back timer. Because if you planning to quit for the night you won't be planning coming back soon. (dunno if that's feasible, if server can see the diference between crash and loggout, not my area of expertize)
Kaeten Hybrid Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.27 11:39:00 - [39] Originally by: Ishmael Hansen IMO: - Warp disruptor bubbles and dictor bubbles should count as agression. - Hitting ctrl-q should trigger a 15 minute loggin back timer. Because if you planning to quit for the night you won't be planning coming back soon. (dunno if that's feasible, if server can see the diference between crash and loggout, not my area of expertize) there should be a diffrence between crashing and logging out, maybe when a client logs out the client sends soemthing to the servers saying its logging out, if you crash the client won't do this, the server will say "wtf, he didn't me a postcard saying he logged out" then would take it as a crash. Could this work, I'm no computer expert. Euro 0.0 Gang PvP Recruitment
Nanobot Deviance Inc SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.27 11:55:00 - [40] Edited by: Nanobot on 27/10/2006 11:57:54 Edited by: Nanobot on 27/10/2006 11:55:41 Originally by: Kaeten Originally by: Ishmael Hansen IMO: - Warp disruptor bubbles and dictor bubbles should count as agression. - Hitting ctrl-q should trigger a 15 minute loggin back timer. Because if you planning to quit for the night you won't be planning coming back soon. (dunno if that's feasible, if server can see the diference between crash and loggout, not my area of expertize) there should be a diffrence between crashing and logging out, maybe when a client logs out the client sends soemthing to the servers saying its logging out, if you crash the client won't do this, the server will say "wtf, he didn't me a postcard saying he logged out" then would take it as a crash. Could this work, I'm no computer expert. Ai normally I'd CTRL Q. However - Bugger I'm in a bubble Unplug Ethernet... UNPLUG damn you. (Too easy to exploit) ^^^^NB. No I have never done this, only used as an example of how easy it already is to claim a client crash. Shoot 1st, shoot some more, keep shooting, some more shot, and if anyones alive after ask a few questions. Just a soldier following orders.
Darknesss D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2006.10.27 11:58:00 - [41] having a system where your ship will stay in space if you log off in enemy territory is the most ridiculous idea ive ever heard. As shin ra said, a small corp or alliance is often required to eventually log off... so you are saying if i go to say c4c (where i cant dock), they bubble up all the gates, its 3am ive got work the next day, and if i want to save my ship from being scanned down i have to stay up all night jumpin safespots until they leave. Thats the most ridiculous idea ive ever heard.
k1Lz Delta team Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.27 12:48:00 - [42] Originally by: Plutoinum Most people crash in bubbles. CCP really needs to check mobile warp disruptors and interdictor speres. The 'warp-scramble function' seems to cause client crashes. Signed
Gunship Amarr FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.27 12:59:00 - [43] If you log in and you are not near an object (like station or a gate), perhaps a 5-10 minute "can't fight" timer would be ok? So you want to join us?
Roga Midrennie Caldari Rage of Angels	Posted - 2006.10.27 13:05:00 - [44] Originally by: Derrios if you Control+Q or close client. You should remain in game if aggressed. Simple as that. It's very annoying to see insert name here be in structure and just magically POOF. No eve warp, no nothing, just gone. The worst thing is, this is being employed via a means to blockade run, and disrupt combat, primarily when called primary. Secondly, it is known that you can open multiple clients and log in over yourself to also attain a similar result. Both these things need to be looked at, and trust me. Changing the disappear time for an aggressed ship isnt that hard -_- I thought that CCP had fixed the issue that i have put into bold in your quote so i tested it. I took 2 of my characters on different accounts. The tackler warp scrambled Roga. I opened another client and logged in on the Roga account and activated one of my alts, undocked and docked that alt. Roga remained in space, warp scrambled and shootable by the tackler the whole time. I repeated the logging in of an alt on the Roga account twice and always remained exactly where i was. - MYTH BUSTED!
D75485 Underworld Zombies	Posted - 2006.10.27 19:09:00 - [45] it will always be so dont fight it
Vashi Dokumentu The xDEATHx Squadron	Posted - 2006.10.27 19:10:00 - [46] Originally by: Frogzuk I would like to bring to the table my thoughts on game mechanics, the issue of logging off in hostile space. Pilots of DGF are forbidden to employ this tatic as i honestly believe it is not the way EVE should be played, and attacking force must set up a base of operation within the hostile system, placing a pos or taking the system from the defenders, but if they fail then they should not be allowed to log off in the hostile system the attackers must leave that system and return to npc or home territory if they have failed to achieve the objective ! Be good to see what others think about this ... froggy May be u need stop crying ?? "OMG THEY ARE USED OUR TACTIC!!!!! BLOB THE F OUT EVERYTHING!!! CALL CCP TO FIX IT!!! WE ARE LOOSING THE SPACE!!!!!" - doestn look famaliar ? The main prolem with some gamers, is, when they are winning everything is fine with them game and etc, but when they are starts loosing - everything is wrong. Mouse is sux, keybord is sux, connection is sux, GAME is sux........ PS and nice to see, what you are quit the -v-, probably the KOS drama made u to do that right ?? , u dont want to be on the side of evil enymore right ??
Awox Minmatar Corsets and Carebears Whips and Chains	Posted - 2006.10.28 06:41:00 - [47] Originally by: Vashi Dokumentu Originally by: Frogzuk I would like to bring to the table my thoughts on game mechanics, the issue of logging off in hostile space. Pilots of DGF are forbidden to employ this tatic as i honestly believe it is not the way EVE should be played, and attacking force must set up a base of operation within the hostile system, placing a pos or taking the system from the defenders, but if they fail then they should not be allowed to log off in the hostile system the attackers must leave that system and return to npc or home territory if they have failed to achieve the objective ! Be good to see what others think about this ... froggy May be u need stop crying ?? "OMG THEY ARE USED OUR TACTIC!!!!! BLOB THE F OUT EVERYTHING!!! CALL CCP TO FIX IT!!! WE ARE LOOSING THE SPACE!!!!!" - doestn look famaliar ? The main prolem with some gamers, is, when they are winning everything is fine with them game and etc, but when they are starts loosing - everything is wrong. Mouse is sux, keybord is sux, connection is sux, GAME is sux........ PS and nice to see, what you are quit the -v-, probably the KOS drama made u to do that right ?? , u dont want to be on the side of evil enymore right ?? Way to de-rail the thread *******, but what can I expect from someone of your affiliation? Amazing all the R.A.T/xDEATHx/RA & friends posting to these threads claiming it's a non-issue and it's just because RL comes first. Kind of like, there's no exploit to farm the last level of a complex 23/7.. Even if RL did come first, the person who trapped you used their RL time, your RL time is not more important. If something horrible happens in RL that forces you to log out it should just be bad luck. - Logoffski Name & SHAME
Frogzuk Dragonian Freelancers	Posted - 2006.10.28 12:48:00 - [48] Edited by: Frogzuk on 28/10/2006 12:49:16 Originally by: Vashi Dokumentu Originally by: Frogzuk I would like to bring to the table my thoughts on game mechanics, the issue of logging off in hostile space. Pilots of DGF are forbidden to employ this tatic as i honestly believe it is not the way EVE should be played, and attacking force must set up a base of operation within the hostile system, placing a pos or taking the system from the defenders, but if they fail then they should not be allowed to log off in the hostile system the attackers must leave that system and return to npc or home territory if they have failed to achieve the objective ! Be good to see what others think about this ... froggy May be u need stop crying ?? "OMG THEY ARE USED OUR TACTIC!!!!! BLOB THE F OUT EVERYTHING!!! CALL CCP TO FIX IT!!! WE ARE LOOSING THE SPACE!!!!!" - doestn look famaliar ? The main prolem with some gamers, is, when they are winning everything is fine with them game and etc, but when they are starts loosing - everything is wrong. Mouse is sux, keybord is sux, connection is sux, GAME is sux........ PS and nice to see, what you are quit the -v-, probably the KOS drama made u to do that right ?? , u dont want to be on the side of evil enymore right ?? Truth be told i rarely post in forums because of the immaturity of some, please stay on topic and put aside the alliance issues, we are no longer in an alliance. This discussion is about logging off in hostile space regardless of the side you are on. As a side note, we did not leave -V- because of KOS, DGF left -V- because of its own (DGF) internal issues ! I hope a forum mod deletes your irrelevent post tbh, its way off the topic ! Froggy
Johnny Bravo Gallente Draconis Navitas Aeterna	Posted - 2006.10.29 00:54:00 - [49] No way you can do anything about logoffski with the current "stable" servers. Its faking bad as is with node crashing, imagine if the side what managed to log second after crash would be penalized not only by losing battle, but also by losing all they ships after the crash... THAT is the root of the problem - node crashing and CTD even in moderate size camps make it impossible for CCP to imploy any hard counter to bubble/agression logoffski tactic.
Xiaodown Dragons Of Redemption Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.10.29 23:04:00 - [50] Edited by: Xiaodown on 29/10/2006 23:08:30 Originally by: Saran Tal Originally by: Plutoinum Most people crash in bubbles. CCP really needs to check mobile warp disruptors and interdictor speres. The 'warp-scramble function' seems to cause client crashes. this is one fo the most annoying things i ahve come accross in eve afaik if you are scrambled with a normal ship scram and you 'ctd' you dont warp off... but if your in a dictor bubble or mobile bubble the scram effect is negated by the 'ctd'... makes saran a sad cookie I agree with saran, and not just cause I love her to death. An easy solution is to allow logoffskis - legit and otherwise - when scrambled by a ship's module. Any ship, be it pirate or NPC frig in a mission. However, if you log off while scrambled by a bubble or warp disrupt field, your ship is STILL affected by the scramble, and your number is up. Solly Chollie, buy the farm, hope you had insurance. I certainly would be willing to live under those rules. It's simple, concise, and allows for mission runners and ratters to survive a real disconnect while NPC scrambled. If you disconnect while in a bubble, or a warp disrupt field, it sucks to be you. I say it's a good plan. The only objection people will have is that it certainly IS possible that people can disconnect, or lag out, while inside of a bubble or warp disrupter field. But, to that, I say: I think the opportunity of stopping the logoffski FAR out weighs the likely hood of actually causing someone to die in a disconnect - because I think that for every legit, unintentional disconnect-while-in-bubble, there are probably 50 logoffskis. Solve the bigger problem, and people will deal with the smaller. ~Xiao EDIT: updated to improve clarity.
noblar The Four Aces	Posted - 2006.10.30 02:05:00 - [51] I have suffered this problem a few times myself. When my ship is about to go boom (say when there is 10% of structure left) I press the little red emergency warp button at the very top right of my window and the bloody client crashes and when I log back on I am nearly all ways in my pod. I have filled many reimbursement petitions but with no success. CCP fix this now please!
Kaosaur Dark Nebula Gallente Division Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.30 04:36:00 - [52] Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists its pretty annoying seeing most hostiles "crashing" when theyre in structure, rlly hope ccp can sort that crap out. I would love to see CCP implement something like Proximity Mines specifically for this purpose. It would be something where you have to anchor it and you can't if there's any object within 25k except your ship. That way you can't place it around I gate and it can't be put in high sec. Place it as close as possible to where they logged. When the "crashed" cough player logs back in, WHAM!!! Something like that anyway.
Fartimus Prime Republic Military School	Posted - 2006.10.30 04:45:00 - [53] Why not just have the client tell the server that the user hit ctrl-Q before quitting? That way the server will still warp you away if the client program actually crashes, but if you hit ctrl-Q you will stay in that spot for a few minutes.
Kaosaur Dark Nebula Gallente Division Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.30 04:53:00 - [54] Edited by: Kaosaur on 30/10/2006 04:54:41 Another possible solution to crash.vs.logoffski: When you crash, your ship stays where it is and gets an automatic 10 minute invulnerability timer. When you log back in, that timer starts over again at 30 seconds of invulnerability, giving you time to get your bearings and everyone else a chance to get ready to pop you. If you don't loga back in, the timer runs out, and your ship and pod get popped. Adjust time frames as deemed appropriate. As far as logging off in areas of space, try any other system mentioned...
madhapee Amarr Damage Unlimited Inc Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.10.30 11:30:00 - [55] I have tried to make a suggestion to fix logoff issues in Kali, please join the discussion: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=417495&page=1#12
Chi Prime Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.10.30 11:49:00 - [56] Edited by: Chi Prime on 30/10/2006 11:50:01 Personally I find mass logONs a bigger annoyance than logOFFs. 100+ ppl that all of a sudden want to play eve together and log on at the same instant to find a hostile op (which they now outnumber) in the system, by pure coincidence.
Frogzuk Dragonian Freelancers	Posted - 2006.10.30 12:22:00 - [57] Originally by: Chi Prime Edited by: Chi Prime on 30/10/2006 11:50:01 Personally I find mass logONs a bigger annoyance than logOFFs. 100+ ppl that all of a sudden want to play eve together and log on at the same instant to find a hostile op (which they now outnumber) in the system, by pure coincidence. If we can have a system that prevents logoff then the logon trap will also become a thing of the past. Because the two issues are closely linked. I have witness fleets forming in friendly space, log off then the lone 'scout' will call everyone in once the said system is 'quiet'. This is not how eve should be played ! It simple case of you want to log off do so out of hostile space, as for free raoming smaller corps eg burn eden, yes its a valid tatic on your part, but you and simlar corps should plan 'sorties' into and out of hostile space. A sure sign of a good pvp unit is one that moves coordinated into hostile space, makes the kills then moves back out into friendly space, CHON do this execptionally well as do finate horizon (forgive the spellings) and those corps gain an element of respect from thier foes for doing just this. froggy
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.30 12:47:00 - [58] For your edification and delight, on the matter of logging off, may I present: the pledge As has been noted, sometimes you do just crash on jump gate transition. Sometimes your cat knocks over your modem. Sometimes someone picks up the phone disconnecting you. There will never be a total solution. So the alternative? I encourage everyone who considers logging on and off as 'combat strategy' to be against the spirit of the game to add their support. Maybe it won't fix anything. Those that do, probably still will. No game mechanic will ever stop that. But those that waver, and who haven't considered whether it's 'right' or not, don't need to hear 'but everyone else does it'. What they need to hear is from those who _do_ consider it 'inappropriate gameplay'.
Avoid Gallente Omniscient Order	Posted - 2006.10.30 13:50:00 - [59] Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists its pretty annoying seeing most hostiles "crashing" when theyre in structure, rlly hope ccp can sort that crap out. Im sorry to say it, but we have had a few bob guys haveing the same problem, whit crashing when they jump into a dictor camp. The good thing is though that most guys can log back a few minutes later, and get what they came for. so the problem is not that big. Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content - Cortes "Here was the brand of the cigerates i smoke" I don't smoke - Cortes
Helplessandlost Minmatar Convergent Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.10.30 13:58:00 - [60] Originally by: INZi i would like to see the day u crash in a 1on1 or in a bubble which you can escape from. the rabble rabble we would see then: PETITION PETINTION BASTARDOUS CCP. get on, live with it Has happened, and know what no petition. If it comes out of the hanger I expect to lose it. If I don't I call it my lucky day. "Don't take life too seriously, nobody gets out alive!"
Dukath	Posted - 2006.10.30 14:28:00 - [61] When pressing ctrl-q or quitting the game in a clean way the client should send a signal to the server. A clean logout should not result in an emergency warp. Whether or not people would then plug the network cable is irrelevant. It already takes longer for a ship that really crashed to warp off than someone who quits. So now the loggers will also at least suffer the extra time needed for the server to discover the disconnect. As an added bonus people would now be able to log off inside a POS bubble even with agression timer. A clean quit means the ships stays inside the pos bubble until it disappears. PS: no need to say anything about the change when it is implemented, let people who ctrl-q find out the hard way that their ship doesn't warp out anymore :)
Swirler	Posted - 2006.10.30 14:35:00 - [62] Interesting. In systems with sovereignty, non-aligned players would be denied the ability to log off. In addition, if they 'crashed' (CTRL-Q) they would log in in the nearest non-sovereign system. And they should be put in a queue to not be able to log back in for 20 minutes. Couple this with not being able to log off w/o crashing for 20+ minutes if you or your gang killed a player. This might just have the desired effect of keeping players in game and on target, instead of just logging off/crashing themselves. Ya get where I am going with this?
ChaosOne Caldari DarkStar 1 Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.30 15:59:00 - [63] its quite simple really. if your scrammed or in a warp bubble your ship should not be able to warp off. youve obviously got yourself into that position in the first place, computer crash or ctrl-q should not matter. to prevent the coincidence of a mass logon it would be easy to make a logon timer that puts you in a ss where your not scanable (a bit like jump cloak), have the timer set for 5-10 mins where you cant activate your hi-slots..
Sally Caldari R.u.S.H. Red Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.30 16:53:00 - [64] Edited by: Sally on 30/10/2006 16:53:59 Originally by: ChaosOne its quite simple really. if your scrammed or in a warp bubble your ship should not be able to warp off. youve obviously got yourself into that position in the first place, computer crash or ctrl-q should not matter. to prevent the coincidence of a mass logon it would be easy to make a logon timer that puts you in a ss where your not scanable (a bit like jump cloak), have the timer set for 5-10 mins where you cant activate your hi-slots.. First part is obviously how it should be, allbeit not with current unstable servers what crash even when 40 man gang jump in a system. The second part is just stupid - force the peoples to wait 10 min after legitimate logon - is a no-go. Many peoples actually value they time... -- Stories: #1 --
Darth Hammer Caldari Centurians	Posted - 2006.10.31 01:01:00 - [65] Just make it so if a person has a lock on a ship they are engaging the ship that has a target lock on it cant ctl-q. That would eliminate the problem pretty much.
Drusus Rensus Gallente Klima Galactic	Posted - 2006.10.31 01:46:00 - [66] Edited by: Drusus Rensus on 31/10/2006 01:51:28 I think that there are a few things that need to be done together: 1) Forget about timers, I think it would be good if you ship never just "poofed". If you log off in a station, you're in the station. If you log off in space, then your ship just sits there until you log back in. Having it just go "poof" is pretty unrealistic. I generally like realism if there isn't a good faith reason why it would break the game play. Which brings me to my second point: 2) You should be able to "opt out" of local, or at least drop out when you log even if your ship stays in space. You can't really do the above until you do this, since local provides a cheap system wide scanner that alerts hostiles of your ships' presence. If you could opt out of local (meaning you wouldn't be able to see who's in the system, but they wouldn't be able to see you either, you wouldn't really need to have your ship go "poof" when you log in a safe spot. 3) Allow a ship to remain "cloaked" while you're logged off, if it has a cloaking device fitted. The result of the above would be that if you were going to take a ship deep into hostile territory for an extended period, you'd have to fit a cloaking device, or run the risk of being found by probes while you were logged off. Hostiles could still find you if they happened to see you come into the system, they'd just have to do a laborious grid-wise seek-and-destroy to spot you visually. There's probably a hole in my reasoning here, since I'm new. Would this work?
Raste Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.31 02:32:00 - [67] Originally by: Drusus Rensus Edited by: Drusus Rensus on 31/10/2006 01:51:28 I think that there are a few things that need to be done together: 1) Forget about timers, I think it would be good if you ship never just "poofed". If you log off in a station, you're in the station. If you log off in space, then your ship just sits there until you log back in. Having it just go "poof" is pretty unrealistic. I generally like realism if there isn't a good faith reason why it would break the game play. Which brings me to my second point: 2) You should be able to "opt out" of local, or at least drop out when you log even if your ship stays in space. You can't really do the above until you do this, since local provides a cheap system wide scanner that alerts hostiles of your ships' presence. If you could opt out of local (meaning you wouldn't be able to see who's in the system, but they wouldn't be able to see you either, you wouldn't really need to have your ship go "poof" when you log in a safe spot. 3) Allow a ship to remain "cloaked" while you're logged off, if it has a cloaking device fitted. The result of the above would be that if you were going to take a ship deep into hostile territory for an extended period, you'd have to fit a cloaking device, or run the risk of being found by probes while you were logged off. Hostiles could still find you if they happened to see you come into the system, they'd just have to do a laborious grid-wise seek-and-destroy to spot you visually. There's probably a hole in my reasoning here, since I'm new. Would this work? Because of scan probes, this part is not correct: "If you could opt out of local (meaning you wouldn't be able to see who's in the system, but they wouldn't be able to see you either, you wouldn't really need to have your ship go "poof" when you log in a safe spot." But in a hard-core world, #3 provides the solution. I like it, but no I don't think it'd work because it'd be a pretty radical change and a lot of people would be up at arms. Also given the server instability it'd lead to a lot of ship loss related to server issues/lag/crashing.
Conmen Valiant Logistics Inc.	Posted - 2006.10.31 03:33:00 - [68] Is this even being talked about? The intentions of the game? how the hell would you knwo the intentions of the game. LOG IN TRAPS PURE BULLL SHIIIIIITTTT. simply logging off in enemy space ot harras them makes perfect sense. Its warfare if you cant keep them from getting in stop complaining about them stayin. Patrol your border bait um into a fight use real tactics other then I BRING 10 TO ONE ODDS SCAN PROBE GO I WIN. Is this the way the game is heading jesus christ sommon sense should take the cake in this WE ARE THE UBER LEET !TH CENTURY RP CORP !THCENTURY STYLE BABY. THANK YOU SHEEDZOR FOR THIS SIG GET PREPARED EVE TO BE WTFOWN
Drusus Rensus Gallente Klima Galactic	Posted - 2006.10.31 03:33:00 - [69] Quote: I like it, but no I don't think it'd work because it'd be a pretty radical change and a lot of people would be up at arms. Also given the server instability it'd lead to a lot of ship loss related to server issues/lag/crashing. I've been thinking about this too. I've never experienced a node crash yet. I have experienced a couple of CTDs. It seems to me that you could handle both scenarios by putting the ship into the equivelent of the reinforced mode that POSes have. Basically if the client and server lost contact with each other for any reason at all other than an "orderly", player requested log-off, the ship would be un-targtetable for the duration of a timer (say 15 minutes) or until the pilot touched the controls, whichever came first. In the case of a node crash, the timer would start when the node came back up. This would end the race to log back on. Everyone would have a chance to log in and have control of their boats before fighting resumed. It would also take away the option not to come back. If there was a crash and you didn't log back in within the timer duration after the node came back up, your ship would becomes targetable. In the case of logoffski, the server can recognize an intentional, player requested log-off vs. situations where the client just stops talking to the server. If the player logoffskis, their ship would just be a sitting duck. If it were a legit crash, the timer would come into effect and the player could log back in with an opportunity to take control of their ship and resume the fight. Would work? Wouldn't work?
Conman CONMAN Enterprise	Posted - 2006.10.31 03:35:00 - [70] THing is if there is a crew and you log off in real life you would simply have them warping around making it impossible to scan so please stop throwing well things just dont disapear for christ sake the physics in the game dont even make sense and it should god damnit. I am drunken irish slave hahaha i live

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