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Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2003.11.05 13:24:00 -
[61]
FWIW, I have a battleship that's used almost exclusively for mining; I don't even have Gunnery 5 yet, so it's naff all use against 0.0 NPC rats carrying a 250mm railgun 
And even I agree that mining in battleships shouldn't be happening.
BUT:
The gripe is not against the players, for using the tools available to them. The gripe is against CCP: there ought to be specialised mining ships that can carry your 8 miner II's, and battleships should have very little, if indeed any, mining-laser ability.
While the game is set up as it is, loading a bs with miners is just a sensible thing to do.
The guys who take those specialist miners into 1.0 space to make billions by farming scordite, well, they're sad and pathetic; but they're not doing anything wrong. Those who object are at liberty to declare war on their corp and then blow them out of the system, since their specialist mining ship will have diddly squat in the way of offensive capability, and not much for shields either. 
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"Soon" is an ancient Icelandic word meaning "some time before the next Ice Age." |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.11.05 13:39:00 -
[62]
"But introducing a cheaper mining ship that can mine as much as battleship doesnt help does it ?"
... Difficult to tell for sure of course, but it might. I suppose if there was the mining ship capable of doing work half as effectively as the battleship, but costing ~1-2 mil and able to move large load of ore, it could make people settle for those ships and go out with them in more dangerous areas than 1.0, because the biggest threat of losing your 100 mil investment would no longer be here... plus, just couple of succesful trips for the better ore would be enough to return the cost of equipment. o.O
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Bon Hedus
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Posted - 2003.11.05 13:40:00 -
[63]
*plays devils advocate*
The biggest question is this:
Why should I risk a Battleship in a PvP lagfest?
By the time you appear at your warp-in spot, your shields are gone and part of your armor. You have effectively wasted a 90+ million piece of equipment (not counting your weapons and other rares) for what?
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"This is obviously the work of some Psycho, Weedsmoking, Voodoo Midget Aliens from Corporate America."
JC |
Albar Gray
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Posted - 2003.11.05 13:41:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Albar Gray on 05/11/2003 13:43:38
If CCP want to 'slow' the economy, then the obvious move would be to place Mining lasers in a different high slot type. That way an apoc can still have 8 beams, but maybe just a couple of miners.
e.g. 8high slots, 8T, 0L, 2M
Still have 10 harvesters though
The problem with increasing the risk of high sec afk mining would be one of targeting the belt strippers without affecting the 'newbies'.
Also there would be a lot more reason to go to 0.0 space if you could refine the ore out there, and transport the minerals back as you could carry so much more per run.
This will also take care to prevent 0.0 belt stripping though. So I expect player run refineries might be less efficient than NPC station based ones, that could be a good trade off.
On a side note, I paid for my first battleship by afk mining an 8k capacity bestower 2 or 3 times a day. And I use a battle ship to run agent missions for the speed, cargo capacity, and suviving BiMass at Sarum Prime. And I have used it for mining , but not for a couple of weeks.
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IÆm not schizophrenic...
ThatÆs my alt
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Arthur Eld
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Posted - 2003.11.05 13:43:00 -
[65]
 Quote:
Pshhhhh i mine as much and more then most BBs in my Thorax, that did only cost 5 mil and my 5 Miner 2s that you can get for 400k a peice. Lots of mining drones too...
CARRRE BARE STARRRRRRRE
And how exactly does that compete with an Apoc with 8 miner II's and 8-10 harvester drones? 
____________________
First comes smiles, then lies. Last is gunfire. We deal in lead.
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The Machman
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Posted - 2003.11.05 13:44:00 -
[66]
Quote:
*plays devils advocate*
The biggest question is this:
Why should I risk a Battleship in a PvP lagfest?
By the time you appear at your warp-in spot, your shields are gone and part of your armor. You have effectively wasted a 90+ million piece of equipment (not counting your weapons and other rares) for what?
touche !
And if you own an apoc and come against a cheaper Scorpion EW ship you have 0% chance of success.....
How about balancing EW so one EW ship cant kill a fully loaded warship.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.11.05 13:59:00 -
[67]
"And if you own an apoc and come against a cheaper Scorpion EW ship you have 0% chance of success.....
How about balancing EW so one EW ship cant kill a fully loaded warship."
*sighs* The Apocalypse has 14 points of sensor strength and 7 low slots. Your typical Scorpion will be equipped with 16 point strong jamming suite.
How about some pilots of fully loaded warships learn a little how EW works, and how easily they can counter it....
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.11.05 14:07:00 -
[68]
Quote:
"And if you own an apoc and come against a cheaper Scorpion EW ship you have 0% chance of success.....
How about balancing EW so one EW ship cant kill a fully loaded warship."
*sighs* The Apocalypse has 14 points of sensor strength and 7 low slots. Your typical Scorpion will be equipped with 16 point strong jamming suite.
How about some pilots of fully loaded warships learn a little how EW works, and how easily they can counter it....
Because people have proven repeatedly that they prefer to claim that it's impossible so they can either have it nerfed or continue to get their way.
The only time it gets near impossible is when you meet someone configured to kill you specifically. Been there, done that, got the tshirt.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Kotten DeBlade
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Posted - 2003.11.05 14:24:00 -
[69]
Hey whats wrong with u guys?
If we smalltime corps want to mine in bs¦s to improve our economy why not!
Or are u just jealous that we can mine so much faster in empirespace and u guys cant touch us, is that it?
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Savage Lee
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Posted - 2003.11.05 14:40:00 -
[70]
Ok lets say a miner ship is introduced. They would be even better at mining than a battleship but with much less combat ability.
Now how would this solve the ever increased argument of strip mining in noob systems??
If a better miner is made the strip mining will continue.
Now as the original poster asked what alternative to mining in safe noob systems are there? No one has yet to answer this question.
What alternative is there for miners??
Another question noone has yet to answer
And I mine in a Blackbird because thats what I want to do. The ECM helps for def when group mining.
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Mmmmm scordite....... |
Fester Addams
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Posted - 2003.11.05 15:01:00 -
[71]
Mining in BS's I vote for it not being possible.
Not like its not profitable or only doable in 0.0 whatever.
I want them to include a new hardpoint type:
Industry hardpoint.
This would allow fitting of mininglasers
when other similar high power slot items come it they too would fall under this category, for example:
Gas scoops: ever seen one of them gas cloudsthat breaks every law of physics in the book? The scoop would allow a player to harvest the gas, gas that can then be refined into whatever and used in production.
Cutting tools: There are alot of debris floating around, the cutting tools would cut loose smaller more easily stored chunks of those items, haul them back to a station and refine the bits into their pure form, be it mostly trit and some electronics or only minerals.
Repair systems: they would allow a ship to perform repairs on another ship or a drone in mid space.
There are countless other Ideas I have seen on the idea board for fittings in this category.
What you then do is decide wich ships should have many such hardpoints. BS should not, at most one or two.
Low end cruisers could have many as they are now not used by many people and mostly then because they cant afford the top notch cruiser.
Frigs, why not, let em rip :)
Industrials, sure allow the few slots they have to be fitable with atleast one industry hardpoint but also create the supply/mining ship
A large ship demanding industrial lev 4 or 5 skill with a large cargo (~1000m3) a drone bay (500-1500 depending on the skill and price) a large number of high power slots, only one turret hardpoint but the most industry hardpoints in the game.
In order for them not to have too large guns you can keep the ships power down, I dont mind the ship having one M gun but if you select the power level right then that will not happen very often.
Price, they ought to be expensive, not as expensive as BS's but alot more than cruisers, manufacture costs should be around 25M (im talking BP lev 6 and with good manufacturing skills) that will place the price for them at round 30M once the market has stabilized.
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ZzeusS
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Posted - 2003.11.05 16:05:00 -
[72]
Quote:
Quote:
the main problem in 1.0 systems are the hoards of AFK indy miners.... they target a large belt and strip it dry overnight while they sleep. just go to somewhere like cistavert and you will see loads of indys afk mine late at night.
So they're using macros for this?
Everyone seems to be dancing around this issue. Yes there are mining macros out there. I've seen them advertized in Corporate and Help channels. It was some geocities website. I didn't check it out and I didn't test them.. don't trust them.
Probably what the devs are seeing as afk BS mining is someone running an overnight mining macro. I'm still not sure how you'd get the secure can back to a station, but maybe they log into another character with an indy, or have a friend with a pickup schedule, or something.
I wonder if they are planning a challenge/response to CONCORD ships via a chat window.. something that wouldn't be yes/no macroable.
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Barl Rathbone
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Posted - 2003.11.05 16:33:00 -
[73]
I dont think its about macros.
They dont like the idea that with the current game mechanics you can easily make a lot of money without taking much risk.
They seem to be missing the big point that to get to this point you have had to do months of slow labourious work to be ablt to do it.
SAVE THE MINERS!
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Lysithea
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Posted - 2003.11.05 16:51:00 -
[74]
Quote:
1 Apoc defending with 10 Thoraxs is a cheap efective way to mine....
Wrong. I could bring in one Scorpion or Raven and end your wohle operation single-handedly. One Apoc cannot defend a mining op. Sorry.
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Chauncer
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Posted - 2003.11.05 16:56:00 -
[75]
For $12.95 a month I'm sure you could join an adult site or maybe do some offshore gambling.... |
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