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For those that sneer at Battleship miners... name an alternative

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Tabius	Posted - 2003.11.04 23:42:00 - [1] I've based my character on the ability to mine and reprocess and trade. If you think it's cheap that I use a Battleship to mine with, then give me an alternative... If you want to mine large amounts of ore, what's the best ship? It's a battleship PERIOD. There's no other option. Should there be? Yes. But until CCP comes out with a 'mining ship', miners have no choice.
Discorporation	Posted - 2003.11.04 23:52:00 - [2] BATTLEship Go gank someone. On a side-note, I think that mining in the starter systems and around (3-4 jps) people not in the nubi corps should be taxed for what they mine by the sovereignty the systems belong to. This is only logical. 75% sounds nice. [Heterocephalus glaber]
Aethelgrin	Posted - 2003.11.05 00:00:00 - [3] I have no problem with you mining with a battleship. The Empire might, though. Go do it outside empire space.
Chucky	Posted - 2003.11.05 00:00:00 - [4] Exactly! Unless they release a cheap ship with a large drone bay and 10-14 turrents or a very high % mining bonus to get the equivalent, people will continue to use bships. Resource collection is too slow, not fun, has to be done by somebody! and is boring as hell. ... you will see more and more marketing which in turn will bring you more players to torture.
Ezra Vouland	Posted - 2003.11.05 00:10:00 - [5] Pshhhhh i mine as much and more then most BBs in my Thorax, that did only cost 5 mil and my 5 Miner 2s that you can get for 400k a peice. Lots of mining drones too... CARRRE BARE STARRRRRRRE They call me trash... TrashGUY
Aethelgrin	Posted - 2003.11.05 00:19:00 - [6] I mine in a Stabber, and I don't find the process dull at all. It requires constant attention, constant vigilance, and a bit of luck (because I don't use secure cans).
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.11.05 00:20:00 - [7] Quote: Exactly! Unless they release a cheap ship with a large drone bay and 10-14 turrents or a very high % mining bonus to get the equivalent, people will continue to use bships. Resource collection is too slow, not fun, has to be done by somebody! and is boring as hell. I wasn't aware the Amarr battleships had 10-14 turrets. From a cost analysis standpoint, a tier 2 battleship isn't worth the increased initial investment over a Thorax. To receive the investment back through the 3 extra mining lasers an Apocalypse carries and begin earning profit over the cost of a Thorax with 3 mining lasers isn't timely enough to to justify the 90m+ isk price tag over the Thorax. Maybe when a little risk gets added to mining, people might not be so willing to use them. Given an option that includes dedicated miners for deep space mining, I'd never choose a battleship over a cruiser. For the simple reason a battleship outfitted for mining is a liability while a Thorax or a Rupture is an acceptable loss. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Tabius	Posted - 2003.11.05 00:24:00 - [8] I'd wager that most of the Eve Economy is based on strip miners in empire space. I'd bet most of your BATTLEships were made from minerals from people like me. I supply about 100 million in minerals every week or two into the economy. I'm fairly sure that it's not coming from newbies mining scordite in velators... and all the millions upon millions of tritanium in your ships isn't coming from bistot mining...
Veruna Caseti	Posted - 2003.11.05 00:26:00 - [9] Quote: I wasn't aware the Amarr battleships had 10-14 turrets. From a cost analysis standpoint, a tier 2 battleship isn't worth the increased initial investment over a Thorax. To receive the investment back through the 3 extra mining lasers an Apocalypse carries and begin earning profit over the cost of a Thorax with 3 mining lasers isn't timely enough to to justify the 90m+ isk price tag over the Thorax. Sorry, this argument only makes sense if you ONLY use the battleship for mining. Which nobody would ever do - hence the argument makes no sense. If I upgrade to an Apocalypse from a Thorax not only do I increase my ability to mine, but also to hunt NPCs and defend against PC attacks. In other words, I see an improvement in ALL areas of the game, making it well worth the 90M+ isk price tag. Anyone who says Battleships shouldn't be used to mine probably never mines anyway because it's an idiotic statement. Successful mining relies on turret hardpoints, CPU capacity, cargo space, drone space, and defensive capabilities. Obviously upgrading to a battleship is wise for anyone who spends a good deal of time mining - and upgrading into a ship which ALSO has other functions such as an NPC hunter makes all the more sense. Veruna Caseti Ishukone
Ezra Vouland	Posted - 2003.11.05 00:30:00 - [10] 1 Apoc defending with 10 Thoraxs is a cheap efective way to mine.... But then again who ever thinks of any sort of strategy in this game... But of course you "NEED" (ding ding ding ding.. magic word of the day) 11 Apocs They call me trash... TrashGUY
Chucky	Posted - 2003.11.05 00:31:00 - [11] Edited by: Chucky on 05/11/2003 00:39:55 ... you will see more and more marketing which in turn will bring you more players to torture.
Aethelgrin	Posted - 2003.11.05 00:34:00 - [12] Perhaps that is to what CCP refers when they say progress is too fast. The accrual of wealth could be what is too fast, and by preventing BS strip mining in empire space, wealth creation will slow and the economy will have balance. Now, I don't know if the economy has balance now. I don't have all the relevant economic statistics. As far as I know, only one MMOG has bothered to collect the relevant economic statistics to help govern their economy, but that's SWG and they cut most of the economy out of their game during beta. I would, however, dispute your claim that a battleship is the best ship with which to mine large amounts of ore. It is less than twice as effective as the best mining cruiser, for a far greater cost. If you're mining Scordite with your 8 Miner II's, it will still take some 400 hours of mining that increased yeild to make back your capital investment. Every hour before that 400th hour, you're behind where you would have been had you kept mining with your Thorax. Have you really spent 50 8-hour days mining with your BS?
Hakera	Posted - 2003.11.05 00:34:00 - [13] How about no miners/harvies allowed in BS, and restrict them to cruisers or less only? That still leaves the good old Thorax Dumbledore - Eve-I.com
Ezra Vouland	Posted - 2003.11.05 00:36:00 - [14] Quote: Amarr Apoc bship has 8, a mining ship would have to mount more before i'd consider it. I'd like to see the crak head math that shows 5 miner 2's are faster then 8 miner 2's. My 5 miner 2s at ming 5/5 and 10 harveys with ming dorne lvl 5 might otmine u in an apoc with 8 miner 2s.... but who knows... They call me trash... TrashGUY
Veruna Caseti	Posted - 2003.11.05 00:40:00 - [15] Quote: I would, however, dispute your claim that a battleship is the best ship with which to mine large amounts of ore. It is less than twice as effective as the best mining cruiser, for a far greater cost. If you're mining Scordite with your 8 Miner II's, it will still take some 400 hours of mining that increased yeild to make back your capital investment. Every hour before that 400th hour, you're behind where you would have been had you kept mining with your Thorax. Have you really spent 50 8-hour days mining with your BS? sigh You're using the same logic as Jash. You don't need to "make back your investment" in order to make it worth mining in a battleship - because the battleship has many other functions which make it worth the pricetag anyway. The Apocalypse doesn't have to be the best mining rig in order to be worth the 90M+ it costs, it just happens that this is one of the many benefits of the ship making it well worth purchasing AND using to mine. Veruna Caseti Ishukone
Veruna Caseti	Posted - 2003.11.05 00:42:00 - [16] Quote: My 5 miner 2s at ming 5/5 and 10 harveys with ming dorne lvl 5 might otmine u in an apoc with 8 miner 2s.... but who knows... Skills don't have anything to do with ships. If YOU were to mine in an Apocalypse you would beat yourself. Hence the Apocalypse is a better mining ship. It has room for 8-9 drones, which is all most people can use anyway, and even with 8 CU Vapors mines faster than a Thorax with 5 Miner IIs. Veruna Caseti Ishukone
Aethelgrin	Posted - 2003.11.05 00:47:00 - [17] The argument here pertains to mining with a BS in empire space - and possibly in high-sec space. Using a BS to mine in low-sec space (even 0.3-0.4) seems a reasonable use of a BS. You can mine at an increased rate (equivalent to a cruiser outfitted for 1.0 mining), and still defend yourself and your hauler. I'm not saying no one should be allowed to mine in a BS. I am willing to concede that the empire may well not want huge strip mining operations going on deep in their space.
Veruna Caseti	Posted - 2003.11.05 00:57:00 - [18] Quote: I'm not saying no one should be allowed to mine in a BS. I am willing to concede that the empire may well not want huge strip mining operations going on deep in their space. Well, I see no justification whatsoever for any steps to remove battleship mining from Empire space. There's plenty of Ore to go around, and it's not like mining Scordite is a path to immediate fame and fortune regardless of what kind of ship you're using to do it. Veruna Caseti Ishukone
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.11.05 01:17:00 - [19] Quote: Quote: I would, however, dispute your claim that a battleship is the best ship with which to mine large amounts of ore. It is less than twice as effective as the best mining cruiser, for a far greater cost. If you're mining Scordite with your 8 Miner II's, it will still take some 400 hours of mining that increased yeild to make back your capital investment. Every hour before that 400th hour, you're behind where you would have been had you kept mining with your Thorax. Have you really spent 50 8-hour days mining with your BS? sigh You're using the same logic as Jash. You don't need to "make back your investment" in order to make it worth mining in a battleship - because the battleship has many other functions which make it worth the pricetag anyway. The Apocalypse doesn't have to be the best mining rig in order to be worth the 90M+ it costs, it just happens that this is one of the many benefits of the ship making it well worth purchasing AND using to mine. Veruna you're ignoring 2 facts. One is that there are people who specifically bought battleships to mine in. The second is that a battleship outfitted for mining in dangerous areas (especially any area open to attack from another player) is a liability. Webbed and warp scrambled with only launchers to defend itself (if you happen to be mining in a bship that has leftover launcher slots), you will lose that bship to a determined attack from a few scant Caracals. Even a handful Kestrels, piloted by those who know what they're doing, loaded with cruise missiles wouldn't have a massively difficult time taking down the bship armed only with mining lasers and 2 launchers. That is a liability for a ship with a price tag that large. And the only people for whom empire space is safe from that type of risk are those in the NPC corporations. Because any real corporation has the added danger of war being declared on them and attacked by a fully armed battleship where they can't even hope to be saved by splash damage and Concord. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Lottsa Pox	Posted - 2003.11.05 01:29:00 - [20] Quote: I've based my character on the ability to mine and reprocess and trade. If you think it's cheap that I use a Battleship to mine with, then give me an alternative... If you want to mine large amounts of ore, what's the best ship? It's a battleship PERIOD. There's no other option. Should there be? Yes. But until CCP comes out with a 'mining ship', miners have no choice. As in battle you have to take advantages when you can. Why is this an issure with people mining? If you can drive a BS and have all miner 2's and a drone bay full of harvestors plus rare hull mods to make sure you can handle at lease one pull, GO FOR IT. By all means. The people mining in BS are the smartones realizing ore per pull goes alot with extra mining lasers. I dont care if you come out to 0.0. or stay in 1.0 I think your should be happy doing whatever to your best extent possible. FYI my miner is in a BS too. Enjoy the game, I know I am Lottsa Pox Pox to ya pod BioMass Cartel Podding a system near you
Cruise	Posted - 2003.11.05 01:32:00 - [21] If you are going to mine in a battleship, fine. I think just about anyone in the game will acknowledge battleships rigged with mining gear and packing harvesters is (sadly enough) a very effective 'strip' mining vessel. To me it is sad because it effectively equates to a RL destroyer used as a fishing vessel. Many people want the battleships NOT as a fighting vessel as much as a better mining ship, and are damned well afraid to take said battleship out of dock in anything less than secure Empire space. You can say it's not true all you want, I happen to know several players who own battleships and view them strictly as a better mining vehicle...period. I think the BIGGEST upset is about the corps that use their battleships to strip mine 1.0 - 0.9 space, because they're not bothered by PvP (unless war's been declared on their corp) OR npc rats. They take the belts down to zip and leave nada for noobs, particularly in the noob startup areas. C'mon, regardless of finding the battleship to be a damned good miner, get your asses into lower secure space and show some freakin' backbone. If you're making so much isk that you're effectively feeding the market on the low end mins, you've got the means to insure that ship. If you're THAT freaked out by the possibility of losing that precious ship, why bother to get it in the first place? ------------------------------------------- Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis ad capul tuum saxum immane mittam.
Veruna Caseti	Posted - 2003.11.05 01:40:00 - [22] Quote: One is that there are people who specifically bought battleships to mine in. Sorry, this doesn't add any weight to your argument. Even if someone does buy a battleship simply to mine with, they are still getting all of the other functionality along with it. Your argument is equivalent to saying "It's stupid to buy a car to drive to the corner for milk because you can walk." Well, yeah, I guess that makes sense - except I can use the car for a hell of a lot of other stuff once I'm done buying the milk. (Even if I only bought it for milk in the first place). Quote: C'mon, regardless of finding the battleship to be a damned good miner, get your asses into lower secure space and show some freakin' backbone. Sorry, this is all just more "play the game like I do or your a wimp" talk. Just because someone owns a battleship doesn't automatically mean they should be risking it in PVP combat. Battleships are good mining vessels, and make NPC hunting much easier/safer. People should be able to use their battleships however the hell they want, including Mining to their heart's content wherever the hell the feel like it. That's part of the benefit that comes with the high cost. As for the "nothing left for noobs" argument, it's crap. Show me a 1.0 system that doesn't have plenty of available common ores within 1-3 jumps and I will pay you 10M isk. Veruna Caseti Ishukone
Sourus	Posted - 2003.11.05 01:55:00 - [23] Quote: I think the BIGGEST upset is about the corps that use their battleships to strip mine 1.0 - 0.9 space, because they're not bothered by PvP (unless war's been declared on their corp) OR npc rats. They take the belts down to zip and leave nada for noobs, particularly in the noob startup areas. Sounds like an angry mushroom-picker to me. If that's the BIGGEST upset... I pity all of you. When I started in EVE two weeks after release I was worried that all ore was gone in the safe systems... it wasn't and it isn't. I was actually disappointed the first time I saw a belt respawn. I could safely stay and mine where I wanted to and not have to go to less secure systems to get the common ores. Boring.
Cruise	Posted - 2003.11.05 01:57:00 - [24] Hmmmm...If you have the time, go through Renyn, it's a 0.9 in Essence. Try Luminaire, that's a 1.0...go through the belts and tell me how much abundant rock there is. You'll find the occasional medium sized scord or veld, and dust or baby roids that pop within minutes. Seriously, I've cruised through some of the noob belts lately and I've had to make quite a few warps to find the one or two rocks left behind by the strip mining lot. How do I know it's them? I can't say it's always battleships milking the belts dry, but I HAVE seen enough of them present in the area to know that it doesn't take a hell of a lot of time or effort for a Megathron rigged with 7 miner II's and 8 harvesters to waste a decent sized roid. People buy the game to play it the way they perceive, no arguement. I personally find it tacky to strip mine belts in 1.0 - 0.9 with battleships because players don't want their ships scratched or their harvesters targeted. Max reward + no risk whatsoever. Sounds fun insert sarcasm. ------------------------------------------- Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis ad capul tuum saxum immane mittam.
MaiLina KaTar	Posted - 2003.11.05 02:18:00 - [25] Basically the only problem is once again: ship balance. Mai's Idealog
Hyundai	Posted - 2003.11.05 02:26:00 - [26] hmm we have indy 4 each race why not mining ships oh i know that it would take many many months to make ,thats way too much work " I wasnt aware of this..."
Maud Dib	Posted - 2003.11.05 03:53:00 - [27] Quote: Quote: I wasn't aware the Amarr battleships had 10-14 turrets. From a cost analysis standpoint, a tier 2 battleship isn't worth the increased initial investment over a Thorax. To receive the investment back through the 3 extra mining lasers an Apocalypse carries and begin earning profit over the cost of a Thorax with 3 mining lasers isn't timely enough to to justify the 90m+ isk price tag over the Thorax. Sorry, this argument only makes sense if you ONLY use the battleship for mining. Which nobody would ever do - hence the argument makes no sense. If I upgrade to an Apocalypse from a Thorax not only do I increase my ability to mine, but also to hunt NPCs and defend against PC attacks. In other words, I see an improvement in ALL areas of the game, making it well worth the 90M+ isk price tag. Anyone who says Battleships shouldn't be used to mine probably never mines anyway because it's an idiotic statement. Successful mining relies on turret hardpoints, CPU capacity, cargo space, drone space, and defensive capabilities. Obviously upgrading to a battleship is wise for anyone who spends a good deal of time mining - and upgrading into a ship which ALSO has other functions such as an NPC hunter makes all the more sense. I'm wiliing to bet there are a lot of people with battleships that just mine. Maybe they use drones to kill the tiny NPC rts in .5-.7 systems.
Ol'Dirty Minmatar	Posted - 2003.11.05 04:31:00 - [28] battleship thats never used for battle I might be a ol'dirty minmatar but I can still beat yo censored
Ethen Hunt	Posted - 2003.11.05 04:39:00 - [29] Cruise your spot on mate.. Why can no one else, cough, Veruna, see just because you can, dosn't mean you should. Yes BS can mine more ore than anything else they have more hard points. I also don't blame you for doing it, it makes good business sense. But please, please just admit you ant doing the game any favors. Everyone cry's out that we need more players, and people continue leaving eve in their droves. But can we blame them when you are taking away their only decent way of getting into a lvl 2 or 3 frigate in the shortest poss time. Why the f* should they have to make 3 jumps to find a decent rock, when you carn't be arsed leaving empire space incase you get your BS scratched. Why are people so F**** shelfish when it involves something they do. Obviousley Veruna mines in a BS in secure space, why make it so plain. Open your mind and think of the bigger picture for once. Perhaps cpp should change the newbie tutorials that asks you to mine an ore and refine it at your starter station to include "thats if you can find any due to BS's mining in your area!!" Before you ask, yes I mine in a BS, but i do it in 0.3 or below, as thats where i have been since a couple of weeks into the game, and thats where you should be. The only time i enter secure space is to sell the minerals ive refined becuase the prices are crap near home. You should try it, mining and rat farming at the same time is quite a sight. So please leave the newbie stations to the newb's.
Veruna Caseti	Posted - 2003.11.05 04:49:00 - [30] Quote: Obviousley Veruna mines in a BS in secure space, why make it so plain. Why make it so plain that you don't know shiat about me? I don't even have a BS skill, let alone a ship. Quote: Open your mind and think of the bigger picture for once. I don't have to open my mind to anything, it's very simple. I've seen enough roid belts in 0.7-0.9 to know that there is absolutely no shortage of Frigate and Cruiser mining in the Universe, period. If you don't want to leave the highway, okay, maybe you'll have trouble finding flourishing belt - but it doesn't take long to be swimming in Ore. This is especially true since we're supposedly talking about saving it for "n00bs" who are mostly mining in Frigates anyway. When was the last time any of you mined in a Frigate? Do you know how long it takes to pop even a moderately sized Scordite or Veldspar roid in a reasonable amount of time? Nobody's hurting for Scordite. Sorry, it's just not happening. Veruna Caseti Ishukone
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.11.05 04:51:00 - [31] Quote: Quote: One is that there are people who specifically bought battleships to mine in. Sorry, this doesn't add any weight to your argument. Even if someone does buy a battleship simply to mine with, they are still getting all of the other functionality along with it. You made the initial error with your flat statement: Quote: Sorry, this argument only makes sense if you ONLY use the battleship for mining. Which nobody would ever do - hence the argument makes no sense. I corrected you in your initial statement. You a logical person (most times), Veruna. What happens to the resulting conclusion that's based on inaccurate data? Quote: Your argument is equivalent to saying "It's stupid to buy a car to drive to the corner for milk because you can walk." Well, yeah, I guess that makes sense - except I can use the car for a hell of a lot of other stuff once I'm done buying the milk. (Even if I only bought it for milk in the first place). This is an inaccurate analogy on your part. For one it, again, ignores the fact that people have and will continue to buy battleships only for the purposes of mining. The rest of the uses are irrelevant if they are never used. Secondly, you analogy is flawed in the comparisons. You state that I'm saying to completely forsake using a vehicle as the cost isn't justified. That analogy is inaccurate as I never said any such thing and stated using a Thorax as a better investment. A more appropriate analogy would be in buying a Ferrari for the sole purposes of travelling to the corner store to buy milk, when given the distance concerned a Yugo would be a far cheaper and more cost effective solution. And less likely to be missed if totalled in the circumstances found in driving a vastly overpowered car at full capacity and the high probability of traffic tickets for doing 150 MPH in a 35 MPH zone (or jail time depending on the state, as in Texas) in neighborhoods. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Infinity Ziona	Posted - 2003.11.05 04:53:00 - [32] "for those that sneer at battleship mining, name an alternative?" NPC hunting, Pirating, Bounty Hunting, Agent Missions, Roleplaying, Exploring, Trading... Well you'll probably say that those possible career paths are not as profitable as mining in a BS in secure space... Which is exactly right and why CCP finally woke up and smelt the roses... and noticed that those roses smelt a little too much like poooo Infinity
LLeBRing	Posted - 2003.11.05 05:20:00 - [33] Is the question mining in a battleship? - cause that is fine Mining near n00b systems? - Thats just bloody wrong and an absolute cheap tactic I have no problem with battleships mining. Its absolutely necessary, but to mine in and around n00b systems where n00bs hang out?? Com'on man what the hell are you doing? Make the game fun for the little man in life, get some balls and get the hell out Nuttin but corn bread en chicken for this fella
Ezra Vouland	Posted - 2003.11.05 05:23:00 - [34] Quote: Quote: My 5 miner 2s at ming 5/5 and 10 harveys with ming dorne lvl 5 might otmine u in an apoc with 8 miner 2s.... but who knows... Skills don't have anything to do with ships. If YOU were to mine in an Apocalypse you would beat yourself. Hence the Apocalypse is a better mining ship. It has room for 8-9 drones, which is all most people can use anyway, and even with 8 CU Vapors mines faster than a Thorax with 5 Miner IIs. the poitn is most peopel dont have ma xmining skillz... They call me trash... TrashGUY
Slithereen	Posted - 2003.11.05 05:40:00 - [35] Edited by: Slithereen on 05/11/2003 05:46:44 I admit it! I bought a battleship to mine. Ironically I hunted my way to buy one. My Arma is fitted with enough rare cargo holds that it can be an indy itself, except that it crawls like a turtle (each cargo hold has a negative speed bonus, and there are eight of them). Then with seven mining lasers and Harvester drones. I eat one roid after another in a 0.9 system. I use the moeny to buy more skills and weapons, and inevitable to work up to a second battleship, which I hope will be a Scorpion next time. Given the rate this baby eats rock, that may probably come soon. I hunted with the Arma and it was a bore. Killing NPCs with it has the same entertainment value as mining rocks. Maybe I don't know enough spawn sites, but it's a chore and unproductive to go from one place to another only to find out someone is already on them. And there is no NPC you can't kill with a cruiser. I still the majority of my work in my cruisers, hunting, exploring. Only when I need to crunch some rock I take out my bs. The Arma is not a good choice for a pvp battleship, lacking the midslots. It's either a PvE, fleet fire support ship, or a miner. So I'm using my Arma to work up to another battleship, the next time will be a Scorpion. If you want a mining BS, go with an Arma. It costs a lot less than an Apoc, holds more space and drones at the expense of one less mining laser. But you can have eight to ten heavy drones protecting you. _______________________________________________ "Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies, "Hope is wasted on the Hopeless."---Mandy, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy. "Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
Woda Hszan	Posted - 2003.11.05 06:01:00 - [36] From what i have just read on Eve-Gate dev chat. BS mining is going to get a big shakrup soon, with the next Tech2 patch. Looks like they are going to start to use wear and tear on stuff now, and make it more dangerous as well to mine in BS¦s. Will be nice to go back to the good old Thorax and mine again
Myrmex	Posted - 2003.11.05 06:19:00 - [37] Ok im willing to stop mining in my apocalypse with 8 minerII and 8 harvester extracting 1026m3 per minute with it ... But at ONE condition you stop using Large turret on ALL bship and use cruiser gun so that u cannot be the best fighter since u dont want me to be the best miner.
MrPops	Posted - 2003.11.05 06:20:00 - [38] Veruna is the only person here making sense. I'm sorry for you Veruna, you are trying to argue with Jash. He is not the type to easily admit when he is wrong as you can see with his reply to your logical post. Verunna's argument looks at the whole picture while many of you focus on just the mining aspect of a battleship. A battleship is an asset that has many uses obviously. The people screaming "BATTLEship so you should go out and fight" are narrowminded fools who call you chicken when you don't play the way they do, just like you stated Veruna. I don't see the problem with people using any ship in any way they want. Anybody calling them out is acting with an absurd elitist attitude. Owning a BS means you have many options open to your gameplay. One day you could strip mine scordite for millions per hour. The same day you can turn around and go to 0.0 space and chain hunt 40-50k pirates and make millions per hour as well. You can also refit yourself and join a combat situation or do some PVP. The ship pays for itself in the fun value and in the potential money you can make with it. The risk involved in losing a 90 million ship is something you assume. There is no glory without risk though. So Tabius go mine in your battleship. Have no shame and don't listen to those who say otherwise. "The human species suffers from a dimensional limitation. They are not able to understand that matter and mind are just one aspect of something more fundamental. We must strive to expand our perspective so we can see what our true reality is." Deep toughts by Mr.Pops, while consuming large quantities of Blue Pill and staring at the EVE gate in Genesis.
Molly	Posted - 2003.11.05 06:22:00 - [39] New mining ship class would be good. Like smaller titans. With a very weak defence. So they actually need to get protection in every system below 1.0/0.9. -- Kasha > Mastema, face the reality: All the juicy dots are gone. --
Myrmex	Posted - 2003.11.05 06:26:00 - [40] Mining ship : 8 high slot , 1 medium slot , 8 low slot. 8 turrets. 500 drone bay. 2000 base cargo 250 shield , 500 armor , 500 structure . Play around with the stas toward races bonus ( armor amarr , shield caldari etc....) Now price that at i would say 15-25 million and u got a decent alternative for a BATTLEship.
Icarus Thorne	Posted - 2003.11.05 07:10:00 - [41] "Battleship" and "cruiser" are clearly misnomers. The real warships are owned by Concord and the empires. Anyone who's been on the receiving end of their fire will likely acknowledge this. We fly armed civilian ships built upon obsolete military hull plans. I think the present naming scheme should be replaced with terms such as "armed transport" and "merchant escort" which better suit their status and usage in the game. A simple renaming would get rid of perceptual absurdities such as mining in a battleship.
Drachir	Posted - 2003.11.05 07:34:00 - [42] I have an apoc. I farm with it, and I mine with it. I dont see the point of getting a cruiser just to mine with when you have a better mining ship right there. Howevwer, stripping belts in noob systems I cannot agree with. While the game allows for it (for now at least), I still think its wrong. And I see nothing wrong with people getting a battleship just for mining. Mainly for the reason that if they lose their pvp battleship, they have a decent miner to replace it with.
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.11.05 07:40:00 - [43] Too many of the minerals needed for large-scale production are available in 0.5 and above. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Hakera	Posted - 2003.11.05 08:01:00 - [44] Edited by: Hakera on 05/11/2003 08:02:50 The issue is with the amount of isk made through mining in a BS. CCP never intended I think from the sounds of the interview for it to be the most profitable occupation. Like everything, the professions need balance, and mining is the no.1 to get rich quick & risk free. Several things should help this such as the introduction of fractions of isk for trit. Some sort of restriction on use of BS for mining whether it be only allowed to use those class vessels in 0.6- systems and that there is a tax based on the size of your vessel or a record is kept somehow of the amount of ore units collected and you are taxed that way?? Whichever way it is, if CCP use a variety of methods it is to stop BS Strip mining being so profitable and risk free. Out of all the porfessions I dont think many can beat around 2mill isk/hour in this game, given that also mining socrdite is almost as profitable as mining kernite. Perhaps a volume restriction might help a little, but the mining rate would need to be nerfed to stop common ores paying so much on market and have a huge mining rate. The issue does need to be addressed as a potential 40mill a day can be earned through strip mining, and the other professions dont even come close. A good idea I liked was that skills should have been kept for porfession classes as well so a fighter could not learn more than a basic lvl 1 mining related skills or has a stupid multiplier in the time for these skills but a much smaller one for skill srelated to their profession. This has lead to old characters being able to do everything from mining to BP research to fighting, I think it should have been restricted what skills you may learn to a certain level or take a certain time multiplier by profession. Dumbledore - Eve-I.com
Kennian	Posted - 2003.11.05 08:48:00 - [45] Pathfinder deep space mineing vessel 8 LIGHT turrets, 1 missle mount 4 medium slots 5 low slots 1000 base cargo 150mps base speed 3500 drone capacity <mineing vessels often rely totaly on their drones for defence, and to augment their mineing abillity, plus this is the gallante version> Structure> 3500 Armor> 3500 Shields>3500 power grid> 5000 CPU> 2000 lock range> 60000 Gravametric sensor str> 20 construction cost 40 million this would be a balanced, effective mineing vessel. able to hold it's own in 0.0 agenst many foe's, and being tough enough to escape from all but the best prepared PVP encounters without resorting to overwhelming firepower. would often travel with a fleet in 0.0...indi's battleships..etc. be a nice ship. i want one :P ]
Miso	Posted - 2003.11.05 09:15:00 - [46] I'd like to sneer at battleship miners. Sneer. Thanks! -------------------------------------------- Dead
j0sephine	Posted - 2003.11.05 09:20:00 - [47] Edited by: j0sephine on 05/11/2003 09:32:57 "Pathfinder deep space mineing vessel Gravametric sensor str> 20" ... Any particular reason for a mining vessel to have stronger sensors than the most advanced (electronics-wise) Caldari battleship? :s edit: as for the advanced mining ship... slap a medium sized drone bay on Iteron 5, take away 2 middle slots and add 2 extra high slots instead, allow all high slots to work as hard points for mining lasers, nerf the powergrid a little bit so it can fit max 2 AFB's with all mining lasers installed... call it a day -- pretty sturdy ship with high skill requirements, able to mine for a long time fairly quick, but requiring escort for protection from both PC pirates and heavier NPC's....
Sourus	Posted - 2003.11.05 09:51:00 - [48] Edited by: Sourus on 05/11/2003 09:52:34 Quote: CCP never intended... I've heard that one a lot. Too bad for them not to be able, or have the manpower, to think ahead. The n00b argument is pathetic. It brings tears to my eyes that you guys care for them so much. New players should avoid 1.0 and mine better ores like kernite and such at the first available opportunity (getting a slightly better gun and a shieldbooster).
Ariell Lucinwind	Posted - 2003.11.05 10:23:00 - [49] I would like to point out some things that I noticed since I started playing, which is now just over a week. YAY I feel so happy. #Ahem# Anyways, the battleship/cruisers strip mining the space where I am groing up in looks disgusting, I went to get some roids for an agent mission and I ended up with three things happening; 1. The roids were dry. 2. The guy in the big BIG ship told me to F off for fear I would steal his roid and that if I did do it he would pay some one to kill me. (Gee thanks guys I really feel like playing EVE) 3. My agent got grumpy cause I spent too much time looking for roids with ore in them. 4. All miners seem to enjoy playing this game also Miners Game So all in all, tis is no fun being me and a little frigate -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Came back cause I love you guys :P
Ch'ryl	Posted - 2003.11.05 10:24:00 - [50] I have no problem with battleship miners. I do however, have an immense problem with battleship miners in high security and especially noob space. You can mine in low sec space with relatively few problems in a battleship. NPC rats are no match for a few well aimed wasps even in 0.1 space. PKers aren't everywhere and if you keep a good eye on local then you should never get caught by a PKer. So I sneer at battleship miners in noob space, yes. Why is it that when someone tells you that there are over a billion stars in the universe, you believe them, but if they tell you there is wet paint somewhere, you have to touch it to make sure?
Miso	Posted - 2003.11.05 10:32:00 - [51] Quote: 2. The guy in the big BIG ship told me to F off for fear I would steal his roid and that if I did do it he would pay some one to kill me. (Gee thanks guys I really feel like playing EVE) If anyone in empire space ever gives you grief like this again, steal their ore anyway. I do. You'll find that most peoples threats are empty in Eve and that most of the time, people talk shi t. If every person who threatened me had carried out their threats, I'd get podded 200 times a day. -------------------------------------------- Dead
Phersephone	Posted - 2003.11.05 10:34:00 - [52] the main problem in 1.0 systems are the hoards of AFK indy miners.... they target a large belt and strip it dry overnight while they sleep. just go to somewhere like cistavert and you will see loads of indys afk mine late at night.
Carp Riddell	Posted - 2003.11.05 11:01:00 - [53] Personally I don't care what people mine in, I'm only bothered by the fact that the mineral has a guarenteed minimum price thanks to NPC buy orders and regional buy orders. If people want to mine all day without risk of damage, that's fine, but mining all day without financial risk is rather unfair. After all, mining is the only trade in Eve at the moment where you can work out your income by play hours before you even start, and requires almost no player (not character) skill. - Carp Riddell - CEO, Innsmouth Shipping - Proud Member of Curse Alliance
BigBanjo	Posted - 2003.11.05 12:27:00 - [54] Edited by: BigBanjo on 05/11/2003 12:44:09 In my opnion mine in the empire space with a BS is ok. I'm a member of Pie Inc (from the beginning of Eve), a RP corp. We are Amarr and only fly Amarr ships. Im specialized in refining, mining and doing industry skills atm. So when i read this thread, most people want me to quitt Pie Inc or stop training my specialisations. Cause when i want to mine good amounths of "normal" orein a cruiser. I need to buy a Thorax (so i can still mine in empire space) and thats not allowed in my corp. Or I train my fighting skill, so i can go mine scord, pyro, omber, kern in 0.0 space and can't train what im good in any more. So i get punished, because people think its not fair. This empire mining in a BS is in the game just as Camping jump in points is in the game. Get used to it for now. The biggest problem is the moral from players. I mine in 0.2-0.5, so the noobs have their own space. I dont use secure cans, so when an ore thief comes,it's bad luck for me. I kill the pesty npc's with some drones, so i cant use all for mining. I like it that way. But hey there are always players without moral and they are stripping the noob belts. If i start whining about camping jump in points like in Sarum, all those Biomass members start flaming me, cause when they cant camp, the game is not fun and they have to move to 0.0 space to PK players. Blablablabla They have also no moral and thats why they are killing every (noob) player. But its in the game and i accept that. Now they want to bann me to 0.0 space?? A member of Biomass found best solutions for mining BS problem in another thread?? HAHAHAHA it makes me and Pirates without morals are whining. About taxes for mining in a BS?? Please dont start whining when your precious ship are getting rare and expensive, because people stop mining huge amouths of trit and pyr. About getting low prices for normal minerals. Yeah that would be great, isnt it...all those cheap ships. About moving most mediocre roids to 0.0. Yeah, so all the Alliance can mine it and get even more power. So we can only hope the mineral prices of isogen and nox dont follow the mega and zyd way. About adjusted industrial ships or new miningship sounds good. And when a solution is found for this "problem", i am verry eager to now what the following "problem" is going to be. So we can all start this stupidity again. I think the biggest problem is a moral issue. And as in real life we have to get used to it. This is only my opinion, don't hold my corp responsible for it. -----------------------------------------------
Miso	Posted - 2003.11.05 12:30:00 - [55] Quote: the main problem in 1.0 systems are the hoards of AFK indy miners.... they target a large belt and strip it dry overnight while they sleep. just go to somewhere like cistavert and you will see loads of indys afk mine late at night. So they're using macros for this? -------------------------------------------- Dead
Slithereen	Posted - 2003.11.05 12:44:00 - [56] Edited by: Slithereen on 05/11/2003 12:44:32 Mining in high security sectors carries their own innate disadvantage. It is boring to the utmost. And regardless, it will never yield as much profit as mining in lower security sectors. _______________________________________________ "Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies, "Hope is wasted on the Hopeless."---Mandy, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy. "Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
Miri Tirzan	Posted - 2003.11.05 12:50:00 - [57] First, the selling point of Eve is that you can do what you want in the game. I find it funny that the people who's motto is "We can do what we want." Steal, lie, cheat (not exploit), pirate, misuse game mechanics (jump in lag), and generally grief the hell out of anyone that comes near is ok. But if an individual is content to mine in fairly secure space, that is bad. Now it is the using an expensive battle ship is "wrong! wrong I say to mine with! It is a BATTLEship and you should only fight with it." Next it will be cruisers are ment to fignt not mine. My answer is... why are you such a busy body that you have to waste time about how I have fun? Gotta love the socialist pirates. So to quote Jade's definition, we have the "carebear pirates" whining because people will not come out where they can kill and steal from them. To Bad. For those that think that mining makes too much isk for little risk, one suggestion... start mining. You too will find it boring as hell. Lets put this arguement in the proper perspective. Except for industrials, all ships in Eve are warships. I started posting requestes to CCP back in the beta's that there needs to be civilian ships added other than just industrials. CCP decided to nerf the cargo hold size on all ships to make them worse miners. The original cargo holds were about 10x what they are now. Why was this done, to slow down mining. Now for those that are wondering, I mine to get the minerals to keep my production going. I believe in vertial integration and it works. So while I have a Dominix to do agent missions, trade, harvest rats, and anything else that has any risk because it is cheap, I have an Apoc just for mining. Why, because it is the best miner in the game and lets me spend as little time as possible mining. As to the cost, who cares, what is there to spend isk on anyway? There is a huge gap between 100 million (cruiser BP or battleship) and the 700 million needed to get the cheapest battleship BP. I do agree that mining in anything larger than a frigate should not be allowed in the noobie starting systems. That is not all of high sec empire space, just the initial starting systems. svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
Oosel	Posted - 2003.11.05 13:09:00 - [58] i use a bs for mining as we are a small corp and mine in 0.2 space we have regular visits from player pirates and i know for a fact if we didnt have 2 bs there and were just in cruisers we would be podded instantly because all the cruisers who you see in local do just that...not everybody spends hour upon hour in the game or want to join a big alliance and one of the strengths of this game is its non linear way of progression everybody finds a way to get ahead so good luck to them.
Xander Teg	Posted - 2003.11.05 13:18:00 - [59] Edited by: Xander Teg on 05/11/2003 13:23:45 I mine in an BS for one reason: I hate mining. I do it, because without Logistics you cannot make war. I mine in an apoc because there isn't a ship that is faster for mining. And the faster I mine the sooner i'm done. I couldn't care less about cost effectiveness, I do whatever it takes to get the mining over and done with so i can fight. I dont mine in sec space ever. We get our Bulk ore from 0.0 just like we get our rares. I think a heavy tax on sec space mining on ships above frigates is a great idea. how about this for a formula: Ore tax on BS = (V.8S) Ore tax on cruiser = (V.5S) V = npc mined ore value S = security rating of system or something along those lines. This will also eliminate macro users. the only problem i have with people mining in empire space is: Quote: Hellmar: The megacyte shortage can be attributed to the fact that you can mine unattended with a cruiser or battleship in >0.5 space at no risk. By that method and with the guaranteed prices of the NPCÆs, you can make very high profits with absolutely no danger. While this is the case, there is no incentive for people to group up and go mining precious ore in 0.0 space. We will now address this issue from both ends, eliminating the risk-free part of mining in a large ship in Empire space and the continuous reseeding of the market will allow for greater player control of mineral prices and fluctuations of value in general. This will force the afk battleship miners out of Empire space and into 0.0, bringing in a lot more mecacyte and zydrine. _________________ "For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack." -Rudyard Kipling
Barl Rathbone	Posted - 2003.11.05 13:23:00 - [60] But introducing a cheaper mining ship that can mine as much as battleship doesnt help does it ? It means even more people can strip mine in high sec so makes the issue worse. At the end of the day mining is a career path and if it is not acceptable for an experienced miner to be able to make more money than a newbie then whats the point of it ? We have Uber Pirates in powerful ships, why cant there be Uber miners ? And to say it is ruining mining for noobs is nonsense. The belts in Hulm do get decimated but a noob in a probe will still have plenty to mine and in the 3 systems around hulm the belts are always full of ore. SAVE THE MINERS !
Baldour Ngarr	Posted - 2003.11.05 13:24:00 - [61] FWIW, I have a battleship that's used almost exclusively for mining; I don't even have Gunnery 5 yet, so it's naff all use against 0.0 NPC rats carrying a 250mm railgun And even I agree that mining in battleships shouldn't be happening. BUT: The gripe is not against the players, for using the tools available to them. The gripe is against CCP: there ought to be specialised mining ships that can carry your 8 miner II's, and battleships should have very little, if indeed any, mining-laser ability. While the game is set up as it is, loading a bs with miners is just a sensible thing to do. The guys who take those specialist miners into 1.0 space to make billions by farming scordite, well, they're sad and pathetic; but they're not doing anything wrong. Those who object are at liberty to declare war on their corp and then blow them out of the system, since their specialist mining ship will have diddly squat in the way of offensive capability, and not much for shields either. _______ "Soon" is an ancient Icelandic word meaning "some time before the next Ice Age."
j0sephine	Posted - 2003.11.05 13:39:00 - [62] "But introducing a cheaper mining ship that can mine as much as battleship doesnt help does it ?" ... Difficult to tell for sure of course, but it might. I suppose if there was the mining ship capable of doing work half as effectively as the battleship, but costing ~1-2 mil and able to move large load of ore, it could make people settle for those ships and go out with them in more dangerous areas than 1.0, because the biggest threat of losing your 100 mil investment would no longer be here... plus, just couple of succesful trips for the better ore would be enough to return the cost of equipment. o.O
Bon Hedus	Posted - 2003.11.05 13:40:00 - [63] plays devils advocate The biggest question is this: Why should I risk a Battleship in a PvP lagfest? By the time you appear at your warp-in spot, your shields are gone and part of your armor. You have effectively wasted a 90+ million piece of equipment (not counting your weapons and other rares) for what? -------------------------------------- "This is obviously the work of some Psycho, Weedsmoking, Voodoo Midget Aliens from Corporate America." JC
Albar Gray	Posted - 2003.11.05 13:41:00 - [64] Edited by: Albar Gray on 05/11/2003 13:43:38 If CCP want to 'slow' the economy, then the obvious move would be to place Mining lasers in a different high slot type. That way an apoc can still have 8 beams, but maybe just a couple of miners. e.g. 8high slots, 8T, 0L, 2M Still have 10 harvesters though The problem with increasing the risk of high sec afk mining would be one of targeting the belt strippers without affecting the 'newbies'. Also there would be a lot more reason to go to 0.0 space if you could refine the ore out there, and transport the minerals back as you could carry so much more per run. This will also take care to prevent 0.0 belt stripping though. So I expect player run refineries might be less efficient than NPC station based ones, that could be a good trade off. On a side note, I paid for my first battleship by afk mining an 8k capacity bestower 2 or 3 times a day. And I use a battle ship to run agent missions for the speed, cargo capacity, and suviving BiMass at Sarum Prime. And I have used it for mining, but not for a couple of weeks. ----------------------------------------------- IÆm not schizophrenic... ThatÆs my alt
Arthur Eld	Posted - 2003.11.05 13:43:00 - [65] Quote: Pshhhhh i mine as much and more then most BBs in my Thorax, that did only cost 5 mil and my 5 Miner 2s that you can get for 400k a peice. Lots of mining drones too... CARRRE BARE STARRRRRRRE And how exactly does that compete with an Apoc with 8 miner II's and 8-10 harvester drones? ____________________ First comes smiles, then lies. Last is gunfire. We deal in lead.
The Machman	Posted - 2003.11.05 13:44:00 - [66] Quote: plays devils advocate The biggest question is this: Why should I risk a Battleship in a PvP lagfest? By the time you appear at your warp-in spot, your shields are gone and part of your armor. You have effectively wasted a 90+ million piece of equipment (not counting your weapons and other rares) for what? touche ! And if you own an apoc and come against a cheaper Scorpion EW ship you have 0% chance of success..... How about balancing EW so one EW ship cant kill a fully loaded warship.
j0sephine	Posted - 2003.11.05 13:59:00 - [67] "And if you own an apoc and come against a cheaper Scorpion EW ship you have 0% chance of success..... How about balancing EW so one EW ship cant kill a fully loaded warship." sighs The Apocalypse has 14 points of sensor strength and 7 low slots. Your typical Scorpion will be equipped with 16 point strong jamming suite. How about some pilots of fully loaded warships learn a little how EW works, and how easily they can counter it....
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.11.05 14:07:00 - [68] Quote: "And if you own an apoc and come against a cheaper Scorpion EW ship you have 0% chance of success..... How about balancing EW so one EW ship cant kill a fully loaded warship." sighs The Apocalypse has 14 points of sensor strength and 7 low slots. Your typical Scorpion will be equipped with 16 point strong jamming suite. How about some pilots of fully loaded warships learn a little how EW works, and how easily they can counter it.... Because people have proven repeatedly that they prefer to claim that it's impossible so they can either have it nerfed or continue to get their way. The only time it gets near impossible is when you meet someone configured to kill you specifically. Been there, done that, got the tshirt. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Kotten DeBlade	Posted - 2003.11.05 14:24:00 - [69] Hey whats wrong with u guys? If we smalltime corps want to mine in bs¦s to improve our economy why not! Or are u just jealous that we can mine so much faster in empirespace and u guys cant touch us, is that it?
Savage Lee	Posted - 2003.11.05 14:40:00 - [70] Ok lets say a miner ship is introduced. They would be even better at mining than a battleship but with much less combat ability. Now how would this solve the ever increased argument of strip mining in noob systems?? If a better miner is made the strip mining will continue. Now as the original poster asked what alternative to mining in safe noob systems are there? No one has yet to answer this question. What alternative is there for miners?? Another question noone has yet to answer And I mine in a Blackbird because thats what I want to do. The ECM helps for def when group mining. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Mmmmm scordite.......
Fester Addams	Posted - 2003.11.05 15:01:00 - [71] Mining in BS's I vote for it not being possible. Not like its not profitable or only doable in 0.0 whatever. I want them to include a new hardpoint type: Industry hardpoint. This would allow fitting of mininglasers when other similar high power slot items come it they too would fall under this category, for example: Gas scoops: ever seen one of them gas cloudsthat breaks every law of physics in the book? The scoop would allow a player to harvest the gas, gas that can then be refined into whatever and used in production. Cutting tools: There are alot of debris floating around, the cutting tools would cut loose smaller more easily stored chunks of those items, haul them back to a station and refine the bits into their pure form, be it mostly trit and some electronics or only minerals. Repair systems: they would allow a ship to perform repairs on another ship or a drone in mid space. There are countless other Ideas I have seen on the idea board for fittings in this category. What you then do is decide wich ships should have many such hardpoints. BS should not, at most one or two. Low end cruisers could have many as they are now not used by many people and mostly then because they cant afford the top notch cruiser. Frigs, why not, let em rip :) Industrials, sure allow the few slots they have to be fitable with atleast one industry hardpoint but also create the supply/mining ship A large ship demanding industrial lev 4 or 5 skill with a large cargo (~1000m3) a drone bay (500-1500 depending on the skill and price) a large number of high power slots, only one turret hardpoint but the most industry hardpoints in the game. In order for them not to have too large guns you can keep the ships power down, I dont mind the ship having one M gun but if you select the power level right then that will not happen very often. Price, they ought to be expensive, not as expensive as BS's but alot more than cruisers, manufacture costs should be around 25M (im talking BP lev 6 and with good manufacturing skills) that will place the price for them at round 30M once the market has stabilized.
ZzeusS	Posted - 2003.11.05 16:05:00 - [72] Quote: Quote: the main problem in 1.0 systems are the hoards of AFK indy miners.... they target a large belt and strip it dry overnight while they sleep. just go to somewhere like cistavert and you will see loads of indys afk mine late at night. So they're using macros for this? Everyone seems to be dancing around this issue. Yes there are mining macros out there. I've seen them advertized in Corporate and Help channels. It was some geocities website. I didn't check it out and I didn't test them.. don't trust them. Probably what the devs are seeing as afk BS mining is someone running an overnight mining macro. I'm still not sure how you'd get the secure can back to a station, but maybe they log into another character with an indy, or have a friend with a pickup schedule, or something. I wonder if they are planning a challenge/response to CONCORD ships via a chat window.. something that wouldn't be yes/no macroable.
Barl Rathbone	Posted - 2003.11.05 16:33:00 - [73] I dont think its about macros. They dont like the idea that with the current game mechanics you can easily make a lot of money without taking much risk. They seem to be missing the big point that to get to this point you have had to do months of slow labourious work to be ablt to do it. SAVE THE MINERS!
Lysithea	Posted - 2003.11.05 16:51:00 - [74] Quote: 1 Apoc defending with 10 Thoraxs is a cheap efective way to mine.... Wrong. I could bring in one Scorpion or Raven and end your wohle operation single-handedly. One Apoc cannot defend a mining op. Sorry.
Chauncer	Posted - 2003.11.05 16:56:00 - [75] For $12.95 a month I'm sure you could join an adult site or maybe do some offshore gambling....

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