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Whiskey Haze Aliastra Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.04.09 23:54:48 - [1] - Quote Have the rest of you been seeing extreme changes in the amount of highsec ganking lately? It seems to me that due to the removal of clone cost, it has become too risky to fly an industrial ship or mine in anything but a procurer or skiff. I've been playing for years without losing a ship in highsec while in an NPC corp, but I have lost multiple ships in the last month. It seems that flying an industrial ship with anything more than 10k of cargo has become too risky. Yes, I know how to fit my industrial ship. I also know how to MWD/cloak/warp. Yes, I know I could just go play in Null. That's not the issue. What I am really concerned about is a fundamental shift in the balance of the game for new players. We all like that EVE is a harsh environment, but I think things may have gotten too hostile now and we will lose even more new players than before. So, my questions are: Have the rest of you been suffering higher losses in highsec lately? If so, how are you adapting? Personally, I am taking a break from EVE because I feel like I can't enjoy the game on weekends and I am now too limited in my choice of play styles.
Paranoid Loyd 4619	Posted - 2015.04.10 00:14:48 - [2] - Quote No, there has been no increase, you getting ganked once does not mean there was an increase. There is however a lot more propaganda and crying going on due to the organization/consolidation of a large ganking group that makes isk from the propaganda. So, it may seem like there is more ganking but the reality is it hasn't changed much. "Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata Fix the Prospect!!!
Whiskey Haze Aliastra Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.04.10 00:18:31 - [3] - Quote I didn't say "once". Why would you make that comment? So, the answer for you is "No, I have not seen an increase". Thank you for your reply.
Paranoid Loyd 4619	Posted - 2015.04.10 00:19:11 - [4] - Quote There's this thing called a killboard, when I look at it, you were ganked once. You don't need to say anything. "Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata Fix the Prospect!!!
Whiskey Haze Aliastra Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.04.10 00:20:16 - [5] - Quote I have multiple accounts. Like almost everyone else. Think, man.
Paranoid Loyd 4619	Posted - 2015.04.10 00:20:57 - [6] - Quote And I bet they were all in retrivers, and were very easy to gank, get a Procurer, think man. "Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata Fix the Prospect!!!
Whiskey Haze Aliastra Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.04.10 00:24:04 - [7] - Quote You're just looking for an argument. Do you want to win? I declare you the winner. Do you feel better now? If anyone else has insight and experience to share, please do.
Oxide Ammar 197	Posted - 2015.04.10 00:33:46 - [8] - Quote Paranoid Loyd wrote: And I bet they were all in retrivers, and were very easy to gank, get a Procurer, think man. I have better proposal for you, make a thread requesting CCP to delete Retriever and Covetor, since by your logic is Procurer or die... Lady Areola Fappington: -áSolo PVP isn't dead!-á You just need to make sure you have your booster, remote rep, cyno, and emergency Falcon alts logged in and ready before you do any solo PVPing.
Paranoid Loyd 4619	Posted - 2015.04.10 00:36:43 - [9] - Quote Using any of them is fine, but if you are going to quit the game because you can't figure out how to deal with gankers or can't be bothered to pay attention, then you should use a Procurer. And don't tell me you were paying attention because you got podded, people who are paying attention certainly don't get podded. "Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata Fix the Prospect!!!
Whiskey Haze Aliastra Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.04.10 00:37:51 - [10] - Quote Well, that's actually part of the question. Are retrievers even viable anymore? I use a skiff in null, but will have to get another for high now. Have I just ben lucky flying retrievers in high for years or have things drastically changed? Most of my losses have actually been with Nereus, ittyV, Mammoth, Kryos, and such. But i won't fly retriever these days. And I've proposed no logic, I've just asked a question. What is everyone else seeing around this issue, if anything?

Whiskey Haze Aliastra Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.04.10 00:39:00 - [11] - Quote Again, I've just asked a question. Seriously, your hostility is baffling.
Paranoid Loyd 4619	Posted - 2015.04.10 00:42:13 - [12] - Quote The thing is, when you tank a Retriever, you lose the yield gained and it is more efficient to use a Procurer. You will have to make more trips to the station/POS but if you can't afford to lose your ship or simply don't want to lose your ship then your logical option is to use a Procurer. Alternatively you can fit a Retriever with a higgs rig, and mine aligned with a max yield fit and just make sure you don't take your eyes off the screen. Whiskey Haze wrote: your hostility is baffling. Quitting the game instead of figuring out how to play it properly baffles me. "Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata Fix the Prospect!!!
Whiskey Haze Aliastra Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.04.10 00:45:11 - [13] - Quote I know that. That wasn't the question. You already answered the question. Your answer was "No, I have not seen an increase in highsec ganking". Thank you for your input.
Paranoid Loyd 4620	Posted - 2015.04.10 00:48:23 - [14] - Quote Whiskey Haze wrote: That wasn't the question. Whiskey Haze wrote: Are retrievers even viable anymore? You didn't ask this question? "Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata Fix the Prospect!!!
Black Pedro Yammerschooner 840	Posted - 2015.04.10 07:22:14 - [15] - Quote Whiskey Haze wrote: Have the rest of you been seeing extreme changes in the amount of highsec ganking lately? It seems to me that due to the removal of clone cost, it has become too risky to fly an industrial ship or mine in anything but a procurer or skiff. I've been playing for years without losing a ship in highsec while in an NPC corp, but I have lost multiple ships in the last month. It seems that flying an industrial ship with anything more than 10k of cargo has become too risky. There is no increase in ganking lately: https://zkillboard.com/corporation/1000125/stats/ If you look at CONCORD kills they are remarkably stable since the killboard API function allied them to be reliably pulled. That means they are probably still at an all-time low as remarked on by Dr. Eyjo in the CSM minutes a few years back. You were just lucky before, or unlucky now. Fly a tanked ship, or pay attention. This is the choice CCP wants to force on you by thier intentional inclusion of suicide ganking as a risk in highsec. The clone cost had nothing to do with it. Pods are 100% savable in high and low sec (barring technical glitches or exteme drunkenness) and CONCORD does not pod anyway, so the pod clone costs are not a factor that influences ganking.
Capsups Tyrannosaurus Rekt. 12	Posted - 2015.04.10 08:24:13 - [16] - Quote Black Pedro wrote: Whiskey Haze wrote: Have the rest of you been seeing extreme changes in the amount of highsec ganking lately? It seems to me that due to the removal of clone cost, it has become too risky to fly an industrial ship or mine in anything but a procurer or skiff. I've been playing for years without losing a ship in highsec while in an NPC corp, but I have lost multiple ships in the last month. It seems that flying an industrial ship with anything more than 10k of cargo has become too risky. There is no increase in ganking lately: https://zkillboard.com/corporation/1000125/stats/ If you look at CONCORD kills they are remarkably stable since the killboard API function allied them to be reliably pulled. That means they are probably still at an all-time low as remarked on by Dr. Eyjo in the CSM minutes a few years back. You were just lucky before, or unlucky now. Uhhh? 2012 average: 9160 2013 average: 18955 2014 average: 25584 2015 average (so far): 28707 That's a 313% increase in concord kills over 3 years and 3 months. Not exactly the most stable of numbers.
Black Pedro Yammerschooner 840	Posted - 2015.04.10 08:55:24 - [17] - Quote Capsups wrote: Black Pedro wrote: Whiskey Haze wrote: Have the rest of you been seeing extreme changes in the amount of highsec ganking lately? It seems to me that due to the removal of clone cost, it has become too risky to fly an industrial ship or mine in anything but a procurer or skiff. I've been playing for years without losing a ship in highsec while in an NPC corp, but I have lost multiple ships in the last month. It seems that flying an industrial ship with anything more than 10k of cargo has become too risky. There is no increase in ganking lately: https://zkillboard.com/corporation/1000125/stats/ If you look at CONCORD kills they are remarkably stable since the killboard API function allied them to be reliably pulled. That means they are probably still at an all-time low as remarked on by Dr. Eyjo in the CSM minutes a few years back. You were just lucky before, or unlucky now. Uhhh? 2012 average: 9160 2013 average: 18955 2014 average: 25584 2015 average (so far): 28707 That's a 313% increase in concord kills over 3 years and 3 months. Not exactly the most stable of numbers. So to answer OP's question, yes, it seems there's an increase in ganking going on according to the CONCORD stats. For most of 2012 the api was not providing CONCORD kills to the killboards. March 2015 had less CONCORD kills than April 2013. It perhaps is trending upwards (probably due to the multi-kills on freighter gankers), but it isn't extremely different within the variation.
Steve Ronuken Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM 5118	Posted - 2015.04.10 11:11:49 - [18] - Quote Clone costs aren't an issue with ganking. Concord don't Pod. Woo! CSM X! Fuzzwork Enterprises Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 5315	Posted - 2015.04.10 11:16:49 - [19] - Quote If you plot the concord data it's definitely showing a general upward trend, so I'd have to go with "Yes, there's an increase in ganking". It would take a considerably deeper look to be sure though, as concord kills are indicative of how many gank ships were lost, not how many actual ganks took place. If I can ever find a good way of getting at bulk kill data, I'll look into it more closely. EDIT: Oh and I transported 12b through highsec in a single run with a T1 unfit cruiser yesterday and didn't explode, so I guess it's not everywhere. :D The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
Whiskey Haze Aliastra Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.04.10 14:33:42 - [20] - Quote Thanks for the thoughtful comments. It had not occurred to me that Concord does not pod, so it is extremely doubtful that there is a relationship there. Just speaking anecdotally to other industry players, there is a general "feel" that there is more ganking activity in highsec, but analytics is definitely the best way to know, so thanks for injecting that insight. I think the comment that I was lucky before and just unlucky lately may be accurate. I'll give things a little time and see how it plays out. I never afk mine or autopilot. Except during "Golden Girls" because, you know. See you all out there. And listen for my drunken battle cries of "Don't Shoot!" and "Not in the Face!"

March rabbit Federal Defense Union 1589	Posted - 2015.04.10 15:08:49 - [21] - Quote Paranoid Loyd wrote: Whiskey Haze wrote: your hostility is baffling. Quitting the game instead of figuring out how to play it properly baffles me. Can you provide link to CCP approved set of rules to play Eve Online? I fear after playing 5 years this game i have never read them let alone recall anything.... The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Garmyne Atavuli Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 11	Posted - 2015.04.10 15:27:29 - [22] - Quote Whiskey Haze wrote: Have the rest of you been suffering higher losses in highsec lately? If so, how are you adapting? Not really, although having said that I did lose a Blockade Runner in Uttindar (0.5) a few weeks ago, first time I was ever ganked in high-sec. But the fact I was drinking tea AND was side on to my screen, (I was watching t.v) when I did finally did react (after placing my cup of tea calmy down so as not to spill liquid on my shiny new keyboard) my shileds where at 30% and instead of crashing the gate I just came through I was trying to sub-light to my next gate I could and should have survived, I was 'hi-sec' lazy. Since then I have overhauled my overview: made a permanent spot for D-scan, added biomass to the travel tab and a few other nik-naks. Other than that, EvE life continues as normal
LuckyQuarter Lucky Galactic Expeditions 38	Posted - 2015.04.10 16:48:40 - [23] - Quote I've done quite a bit of hauling and mining over the years in highsec, and from what I can tell - gankers are getting more coordinated and concentrating on their most profitable locations (jita, udaema, njarja) but otherwise ganking elsewhere isn't anything much to worry about unless you have a fail fit. I see players solo mining in hulks and macks all the time in 0.5 system and I chat with them about why they aren't using a skiff instead....I nearly always hear that getting ganked is just a cost of doing business or that the high yield pays for the ganked ships. I check local killboards and its always the hulks and macks getting killed, and when you look at the details - most of them have under 15K ehp and are in max-yield fit. Similarly for hauling, other than jita, nearly all the kills I see are for t1 industrials - especially those carrying >100M isk which really should have been moved in a t2 transport. Yes, freighter killing season happens on/off in the gank points but freighter pilots are making the decision they want the high paying courier jobs to go through them. Not a problem.
Sarah Flynt Federation Interstellar Resources Silent Infinity 83	Posted - 2015.04.10 16:52:58 - [24] - Quote Black Pedro wrote: Whiskey Haze wrote: Have the rest of you been seeing extreme changes in the amount of highsec ganking lately? It seems to me that due to the removal of clone cost, it has become too risky to fly an industrial ship or mine in anything but a procurer or skiff. I've been playing for years without losing a ship in highsec while in an NPC corp, but I have lost multiple ships in the last month. It seems that flying an industrial ship with anything more than 10k of cargo has become too risky. There is no increase in ganking lately: https://zkillboard.com/corporation/1000125/stats/ If you look at CONCORD kills they are remarkably stable since the killboard API function allied them to be reliably pulled. That means they are probably still at an all-time low as remarked on by Dr. Eyjo in the CSM minutes a few years back. Actually these stats are completely useless wrt. judjing the state of hauler ganking (and that's what the OP is talking about). The vast majority of haulers are being ganked in range of gate or station guns and if the gank ship is being destroyed by the gate guns before CONCORD arrives, it simply doesn't show up in above metrics and that number is significant. While I'm typing this, I noticed that zkillboard.com is currently repopulating their data to also show ship losses from sentrygun fire only (thanks a lot for this!). These gank ship losses didn't show up at all before. We'll soon have a much better estimate how the situation really is. Sick of High-Sec gankers? Join the public channel Anti-ganking and the dedicated intel channel Gank-Intel !
Vincent Athena V.I.C.E. 3287	Posted - 2015.04.10 18:47:11 - [25] - Quote I notice that the Value of ships destroyed by CONCORD is not going up. But the number is. This indicate that: The gankers are using more cheaper ships to do the job, and/or They are using more free rookie ships to relocate CONCORD. Know a Frozen fan? Check this out Frozen fanfiction
Black Pedro Yammerschooner 842	Posted - 2015.04.10 19:12:58 - [26] - Quote Vincent Athena wrote: I notice that the Value of ships destroyed by CONCORD is not going up. But the number is. This indicate that: The gankers are using more cheaper ships to do the job, and/or They are using more free rookie ships to relocate CONCORD. Indeed. And the numbers also should be normalized by the number of players online to give a fairer number if we are doing this right. But the main thing they say ganking hasn't spiked or dropped several-fold or anything since these numbers were being recorded by zKillboard.
Shiloh Templeton Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 279	Posted - 2015.04.11 02:05:58 - [27] - Quote Whiskey Haze wrote: Have the rest of you been suffering higher losses in highsec lately? If so, how are you adapting? 1) No. I've seen much less of the big packs that could take down hardened targets since loyalanon went on to other things. I have seen some new and effective gankers in one area I frequent which have an impact on soft targets. And Hyperdunking adds a new element of risk to freighters. 2) Same as always -- make sure I have adequate tank if I think trouble is around. Make sure I'm not the easiest target. Get to know the locals. I chat with people in local including gankers, but I don't trash talk. Keep cargo value reasonable. Check Dotlan before hauling through known trouble spots. Don't AP through known trouble spots. Use insta-docks and insta-undocks. I don't mind the gankers. I respect the effort they put into the game and I think they make things more interesting. Awoxers are a different story.
Whiskey Haze Aliastra Gallente Federation 3	Posted - 2015.04.11 04:00:54 - [28] - Quote Checking Dotlan is a habit I need to get into. Thanks, Shiloh.
Urgg Boolean Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 399	Posted - 2015.04.12 16:37:26 - [29] - Quote A few old corpmates and I have re-subbed about 3 weeks ago. We have been mining extensively. We have been doing courier missions, even into low sec, extensively. We have been hauling in T1 indy's, freighter caravans (3) in hi sec, and jump freighters (2) and transports (3) in and out of low sec/hi sec. We have been doing security missions extensively in hi sec. We have been doing PI in low sec and hauling to hi sec with those same transports and jump freighters. If anything, we have noticed ZERO attempts to gank us, steal our salvage, or to be harassed in any way. In fact, on one courier mission in low sec, I exited the station and saw two cruisers within attack range. I was ready to re-enter the station, but they warped off as if they didn't want the transport ship kill. They didn't even attempt a lock. I figured at best, they'd camp the station and I'd have to clone jump out to make them bored and leave. But ... they warped off, apparently disinterested. Dudes, our cyno alts are not being killed/podded!!! Huh, wha ?!?!? That being said, we fly heavily tanked Macks and Battle Orca with shield harmonic thingy on mining ops, and historically, are known to survive gank attempts in 0.5 sysytems, i.e., we are not profitable. Before, the gankers that were well know to us left us alone, and those who made attempts with "min necessary" set-ups, soon learned we are not easy targets. But now? Go figure? We expected SOME attempts! We have seen plenty of roaming reds in low sec, but that is as it was before and to be expected and not the concern of the OP. The only difference that MAY explain this, at least that we see, is the lower population. When we quit, 55-60K online were typical. Now, what, 30K on the weekend, 22K on off times? At least, this is what we are seeing at times when we play. So if there is an increase in gankage, we do not see it ... yet.
Trader WindMaster Perkone Caldari State 0	Posted - 2015.04.12 17:02:39 - [30] - Quote OP I thought I was noticing an increase in high sec ganks too. Unfortunately, like you, my evidence is only anecdotal. That being said, there is a lot of hostility in this thread.

Adunh Slavy 1607	Posted - 2015.04.12 20:58:37 - [31] - Quote Whiskey Haze wrote: Again, I've just asked a question. Seriously, your hostility is baffling. Welcome to Eve, where ass hats think they're important. Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.-á-á- William Pitt
UMIRIN BRAH Aesthics 1	Posted - 2015.04.13 02:25:53 - [32] - Quote Whiskey Haze wrote: Have the rest of you been seeing extreme changes in the amount of highsec ganking lately? I have just recently re-subbed and although I cannot take credit for it all, I am doing my best. Be seeing you.
Herateis State Protectorate Caldari State 6	Posted - 2015.04.13 06:49:12 - [33] - Quote I too think there has been. Lots of concord ships in belts and giant veldspar rocks even in 9 security status systems.
Whiskey Haze Aliastra Gallente Federation 6	Posted - 2015.04.13 15:58:03 - [34] - Quote I had a profitable weekend doing hub to hub trades. I switched from an Iteron 5 to a Nereus. Fitted 4 shield extenders, shield rigs, 3 inertial stabs, and 2 warp stabs. But no one tried to even scan me this week. I also just completed training for a prowler so that should make me less nervous. I'm really liking the speed on that ship. For anyone interested, there is a good thread here called " The Dangers of Hauling"
Mobadder Thworst RainRunners 266	Posted - 2015.04.14 23:08:21 - [35] - Quote Hi, Long time can flipper and war dec player here. I have been called a griefer.( I think the term "semi-consentual fun delivery agent" is more accurate.) I used to roam belts stealing things for fights. Sometimes in a frigate or badger, sometimes I would bait outside station. Or, war decs were so cheap I could dec a local corp very casually and not worry if I got anything out of it. Then the aggro rules changed and the risk and viability of baiting for fights became imbalanced, IMO. It is so much harder to bait that most of the baiters I knew either quit or went merc. Back then, Ganking only made sense if you knew the cargo was expensive. Now Ganking the the most viable form of casual highsec pvp. Yeah, I'm sure it's increasing... It's now the lowest risk engagement method in high sec... And a decent source of isk. I think it is a result of the new mechanics. For the record, I liked the old rules better. I think they produced better content for me and the miners. I posted some about this in C & P. I have had miners write me and agree with me. Mo
Amarrchecko Hedion University Amarr Empire 41	Posted - 2015.04.15 01:57:28 - [36] - Quote Whiskey Haze wrote: It seems to me that due to the removal of clone cost, it has become too risky to fly an industrial ship or mine in anything but a procurer or skiff. Yes, I know how to fit my industrial ship. I also know how to MWD/cloak/warp. Either you're lying or you're incredibly unlucky. People who play smartly/carefully don't lose many/any ships (unless they're purposely engaging in risky activities, anyways), even if they are t1 industrials or covetors. Clone cost thing is probably not contributing, since concord deaths used to still be covered by insurance and since you can do suicide ganks with characters that have under 1 million SP anyways. Whiskey Haze wrote: So, my questions are: Have the rest of you been suffering higher losses in highsec lately? If so, how are you adapting? Personally, I am taking a break from EVE because I feel like I can't enjoy the game on weekends and I am now too limited in my choice of play styles. IF SO, how am I adapting? I planned to avoid losses in the first place so that I don't need to adapt. I'm a step ahead of the gankers, not a step behind. You're play styles are only limited by you, imo.
Mobadder Thworst RainRunners 266	Posted - 2015.04.15 02:19:44 - [37] - Quote Amarrchecko wrote: Whiskey Haze wrote: It seems to me that due to the removal of clone cost, it has become too risky to fly an industrial ship or mine in anything but a procurer or skiff. Yes, I know how to fit my industrial ship. I also know how to MWD/cloak/warp. Either you're lying or you're incredibly unlucky. People who play smartly/carefully don't lose many/any ships (unless they're purposely engaging in risky activities, anyways), even if they are t1 industrials or covetors. Clone cost thing is probably not contributing, since concord deaths used to still be covered by insurance and since you can do suicide ganks with characters that have under 1 million SP anyways. Whiskey Haze wrote: So, my questions are: Have the rest of you been suffering higher losses in highsec lately? If so, how are you adapting? Personally, I am taking a break from EVE because I feel like I can't enjoy the game on weekends and I am now too limited in my choice of play styles. IF SO, how am I adapting? I planned to avoid losses in the first place so that I don't need to adapt. I'm a step ahead of the gankers, not a step behind. You're play styles are only limited by you, imo. I think you are missing the OP's point. I think the OP has a valid point. 2 years ago, nobody would have ganked a noob mining vessel. It wasn't worth it. In between wars and flipping/baiting I would occasionally gank a bot miner just because I felt like they were cheating. I always announced it in local so everyone would come watch and give the miner a chance to be a person. It was fun for all. Ganking wasn't something you saw very often outside hulkageddon, which was a competition. Now Ganking is normally done all over empire... As a playstyle. 2 years ago, it made more sense to try to steal from a mining vessel to try to get a fight. Now it's safer and more controllable to just gank and let concord kill you. Short answer: all the guys who play Eve like "GTA: Space" have figured out that ganks are the easiest farmable crime mission.
LuckyQuarter Lucky Galactic Expeditions 40	Posted - 2015.04.15 20:22:01 - [38] - Quote Mobadder Thworst wrote: 2 years ago, nobody would have ganked a noob mining vessel. It wasn't worth it. In between wars and flipping/baiting I would occasionally gank a bot miner just because I felt like they were cheating. I always announced it in local so everyone would come watch and give the miner a chance to be a person. It was fun for all. ... Short answer: all the guys who play Eve like "GTA: Space" have figured out that ganks are the easiest farmable crime mission. I still don't see a problem. If you mine in highsec, fly a skiff or procuror. If you haul in highsec, fly a t2 blockade runner or deep space transport (tanked). If you are a newbie, well, you'll have to learn to fly cautiously...CCP doesn't seem to be worried about new player retention. Should ganking be more difficult? I wouldn't mind if grinding for standing increases in order to enter highsec took much longer than it does now....it should take awhile to regain trust. And, honestly, I wish industry players could limit who their market orders sell to (standing less than 2.0, sorry- you can't buy new destroyers at the lowest price). Otherwise, I think things are fine as is. People are being more careful in what they fly. That's good.
Tau Cabalander Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs 4801	Posted - 2015.04.15 23:01:57 - [39] - Quote Over the past 6 years, I've been ganked once in hisec, because I made a mistake. I warped to station on Jita 4-4 instead of my insta-dock bookmark.
Mobadder Thworst RainRunners 266	Posted - 2015.04.16 01:26:56 - [40] - Quote LuckyQuarter wrote: Mobadder Thworst wrote: 2 years ago, nobody would have ganked a noob mining vessel. It wasn't worth it. In between wars and flipping/baiting I would occasionally gank a bot miner just because I felt like they were cheating. I always announced it in local so everyone would come watch and give the miner a chance to be a person. It was fun for all. ... Short answer: all the guys who play Eve like "GTA: Space" have figured out that ganks are the easiest farmable crime mission. I still don't see a problem. If you mine in highsec, fly a skiff or procuror. If you haul in highsec, fly a t2 blockade runner or deep space transport (tanked). If you are a newbie, well, you'll have to learn to fly cautiously...CCP doesn't seem to be worried about new player retention. Should ganking be more difficult? I wouldn't mind if grinding for standing increases in order to enter highsec took much longer than it does now....it should take awhile to regain trust. And, honestly, I wish industry players could limit who their market orders sell to (standing less than 2.0, sorry- you can't buy new destroyers at the lowest price). Otherwise, I think things are fine as is. People are being more careful in what they fly. That's good. As far as retention, CCP recently published a bit of research that states that players who get a ship destroyed (gank or fight) in the first two weeks of playtime play longer on average. Turns out, getting ganked or baited is the most exciting thing going for our young players. As for the current situation, I think the old mechanics encouraged more interactions and, thus, were more fun. I agree that the old war dec model wasn't good for retention, but can flipping gave miners and element of risk to dramatically improve output. It was a weighty decision. I think can flipping was great for everyone. I think if they brought it back Ganking would subside because can flipping is more fun. Gank or no gank isn't as much fun, in my opinion.

Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 23633	Posted - 2015.04.16 02:01:07 - [41] - Quote Delete.. Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Bethan Le Troix Krusual Investigation Agency 186	Posted - 2015.04.16 06:59:38 - [42] - Quote My friends haven't been ganked that often (They can probably count the losses on one hand from about five years of gameplay.) but I think all the attacks have happened when they haven't been paying full attention to the screen. In terms of haulers you should never use autopilot and never be 'AFK' while flying. Even the most vociferous members of anti-ganking fleets will tell you this so it is just how the game is played and not CODE propaganda. I think I would tend to agree that there has been a noticeable increase in high sec ganking. It probably started just before the advent of the 'hyper-dunking' tactic/exploit . There are many choke-point systems in high sec between the trade hubs which I won't name here. The majority of the ganking occurs in those systems but by using certain chat channels and using scouts and/or 'webbing alts' you can lessen the risk.
Omar Alharazaad Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 1516	Posted - 2015.04.16 08:27:28 - [43] - Quote Bethan Le Troix wrote: My friends haven't been ganked that often (They can probably count the losses on one hand from about five years of gameplay.) but I think all the attacks have happened when they haven't been paying full attention to the screen. In terms of haulers you should never use autopilot and never be 'AFK' while flying. Even the most vociferous members of anti-ganking fleets will tell you this so it is just how the game is played and not CODE propaganda. I think I would tend to agree that there has been a noticeable increase in high sec ganking. It probably started just before the advent of the 'hyper-dunking' tactic/exploit . There are many choke-point systems in high sec between the trade hubs which I won't name here. The majority of the ganking occurs in those systems but by using certain chat channels and using scouts and/or 'webbing alts' you can lessen the risk. Pretty much this. There are places where the risk of being ganked is higher than others. These places can be found on the map pretty easily. Scouting ahead and having a buddy to help you get into warp faster can be an invaluable asset... it may seem inconvenient or something of a hassle, but the extra effort can make the difference between getting your cargo to it's destination safely and someone else scooping up what's left of your cargo after a violent incident. As far as mining goes, keeping an eye on local and D-scan and mining while aligned helps a great deal. With the new rigs you can actually get a fair number of cycles out of a roid even while moving full speed, and being able to jump into warp the moment something lands on grid is a serious boost to survivability. I keep a thoughtgun next to the bed, fully loaded with nerdshot. Just in case.
Estella Osoka Perkone Caldari State 568	Posted - 2015.04.16 21:52:23 - [44] - Quote Bethan Le Troix wrote: My friends haven't been ganked that often (They can probably count the losses on one hand from about five years of gameplay.) but I think all the attacks have happened when they haven't been paying full attention to the screen. In terms of haulers you should never use autopilot and never be 'AFK' while flying. Even the most vociferous members of anti-ganking fleets will tell you this so it is just how the game is played and not CODE propaganda. I think I would tend to agree that there has been a noticeable increase in high sec ganking. It probably started just before the advent of the 'hyper-dunking' tactic/exploit . There are many choke-point systems in high sec between the trade hubs which I won't name here. The majority of the ganking occurs in those systems but by using certain chat channels and using scouts and/or 'webbing alts' you can lessen the risk. You mean like Uedama? Is that the system you can't name?
Sabriz Adoudel Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 4982	Posted - 2015.04.16 23:38:00 - [45] - Quote I'm glad to see that we are adding tension, chaos and excitement to your gameplay. I look forward to adding more in future. Shoot everyone. Let the Saviour sort it out. I enforce the New Haliama Code of Conduct via wardec ops. Ignorance of the law is no excuse - read about requirements for highsec miners at www.minerbumping.com
Whiskey Haze Aliastra Gallente Federation 6	Posted - 2015.04.16 23:43:19 - [46] - Quote Sabriz Adoudel wrote: I'm glad to see that we are adding tension, chaos and excitement to your gameplay. I look forward to adding more in future. Oh, I agree. I think the danger has taken some of the boredom out of hauling life. Hopefully, more people will want to hire haulers to move their stuff, too. See you out there, Sabriz. o7
Sabriz Adoudel Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 4982	Posted - 2015.04.17 00:05:59 - [47] - Quote Whiskey Haze wrote: Sabriz Adoudel wrote: I'm glad to see that we are adding tension, chaos and excitement to your gameplay. I look forward to adding more in future. Oh, I agree. I think the danger has taken some of the boredom out of hauling life. Hopefully, more people will want to hire haulers to move their stuff, too. See you out there, Sabriz. o7 Haulers are definitely charging more than they used to. I used to get billion ISK Jita to Dodi jobs done for 6-7 million, now it's 12-15. I probably move 20 to 50 billion a month in collateralized courier contracts. It's good for me though - there's now more regional price discrepancies than there were back when CODE. wasn't feared by freighter pilots. Shoot everyone. Let the Saviour sort it out. I enforce the New Haliama Code of Conduct via wardec ops. Ignorance of the law is no excuse - read about requirements for highsec miners at www.minerbumping.com
Noragen Neirfallas Somalian Coast Guard Authority The Marmite Collective 264	Posted - 2015.04.17 09:56:36 - [48] - Quote Personally my mining ships on my ALTs have never been ganked. Then again they are all permit holders. And I try to lose my mining ship in rens all the time but it never seems to work out. Maybe your doing it wrong because my mining ships end up killing the aggressor's... Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Amarrchecko Hedion University Amarr Empire 46	Posted - 2015.04.17 12:36:59 - [49] - Quote Mobadder Thworst wrote: I think you are missing the OP's point. I think the OP has a valid point. 2 years ago, nobody would have ganked a noob mining vessel. It wasn't worth it. In between wars and flipping/baiting I would occasionally gank a bot miner just because I felt like they were cheating. I always announced it in local so everyone would come watch and give the miner a chance to be a person. It was fun for all. Ganking wasn't something you saw very often outside hulkageddon, which was a competition. Now Ganking is normally done all over empire... As a playstyle. 2 years ago, it made more sense to try to steal from a mining vessel to try to get a fight. Now it's safer and more controllable to just gank and let concord kill you. Short answer: all the guys who play Eve like "GTA: Space" have figured out that ganks are the easiest farmable crime mission. I'm not convinced that I'm missing the point (or that you got it). He asked two specific questions, which I addressed. It looks like his losses were half fit retrievers and no-implant pods, once in a .4 and once in a .6. The .6 loss was to a single CODE. guy. And the potential for these losses is enough to ruin his playstyle to the point he's taking a break from Eve? Even though there are a number of simple things he could do to reduce the chance of getting ganked and/or to help survive gank attempts that still happen? I think my reply was appropriate. Meanwhile, you're talking about when it is "worth it" to gank mining vessels? VENTURES? Come on, man. No one ganks miners to make money. They do it for fun. It's never "worth it" to gank a noob mining vessel. You can hardly make money no matter how you're ganking miners, even when you're getting reimbursed by James 315 AND using a second account to scoop up the little bit of loot there is after a gank.
Bethan Le Troix Krusual Investigation Agency 186	Posted - 2015.04.17 14:14:28 - [50] - Quote Estella Osoka wrote: Bethan Le Troix wrote: My friends haven't been ganked that often (They can probably count the losses on one hand from about five years of gameplay.) but I think all the attacks have happened when they haven't been paying full attention to the screen. In terms of haulers you should never use autopilot and never be 'AFK' while flying. Even the most vociferous members of anti-ganking fleets will tell you this so it is just how the game is played and not CODE propaganda. I think I would tend to agree that there has been a noticeable increase in high sec ganking. It probably started just before the advent of the 'hyper-dunking' tactic/exploit . There are many choke-point systems in high sec between the trade hubs which I won't name here. The majority of the ganking occurs in those systems but by using certain chat channels and using scouts and/or 'webbing alts' you can lessen the risk. You mean like Uedama? Is that the system you can't name? Yes that is the most notable one but there a quite a few others. For those who don't wish to enter low sec systems to shorten journey times avoiding systems like Uedama can turn a nineteen jump one way trip into a thirty-eight jump one way trip. Of course the gankers don't operate 24/7 and there are other things you can do to lessen the risk. But yes I won't name the systems so as not to encourage the less imaginative to join in.

Bethan Le Troix Krusual Investigation Agency 186	Posted - 2015.04.17 14:24:32 - [51] - Quote Amarrchecko wrote: Mobadder Thworst wrote: I think you are missing the OP's point. I think the OP has a valid point. 2 years ago, nobody would have ganked a noob mining vessel. It wasn't worth it. In between wars and flipping/baiting I would occasionally gank a bot miner just because I felt like they were cheating. I always announced it in local so everyone would come watch and give the miner a chance to be a person. It was fun for all. Ganking wasn't something you saw very often outside hulkageddon, which was a competition. Now Ganking is normally done all over empire... As a playstyle. 2 years ago, it made more sense to try to steal from a mining vessel to try to get a fight. Now it's safer and more controllable to just gank and let concord kill you. Short answer: all the guys who play Eve like "GTA: Space" have figured out that ganks are the easiest farmable crime mission. I'm not convinced that I'm missing the point (or that you got it). He asked two specific questions, which I addressed. It looks like his losses were half fit retrievers and no-implant pods, once in a .4 and once in a .6. The .6 loss was to a single CODE. guy. And the potential for these losses is enough to ruin his playstyle to the point he's taking a break from Eve? Even though there are a number of simple things he could do to reduce the chance of getting ganked and/or to help survive gank attempts that still happen? I think my reply was appropriate. Meanwhile, you're talking about when it is "worth it" to gank mining vessels? VENTURES? Come on, man. No one ganks miners to make money. They do it for fun. It's never "worth it" to gank a noob mining vessel. You can hardly make money no matter how you're ganking miners, even when you're getting reimbursed by James 315 AND using a second account to scoop up the little bit of loot there is after a gank. Aye. Suicide ganking mining vessels is usually a loss making exercise in terms of CODE operations as they are policing belts following their own rulebook. If you're operating in the field of resource protection then there is probably a profit motive for the contractors but not for the actual pilots of the suicide ganking vessels other than the gankers fee for completed contracts. There is a lot of ISK to be made from ganking small and large hauling vessels given that so many overfill their holds and use tactics that leave them fully open to attack. I see many people doing this for hours at a time and making a lot of ISK - potentially billions - but It's not something I would be interested in doing personally.
Whiskey Haze Aliastra Gallente Federation 6	Posted - 2015.04.17 15:19:20 - [52] - Quote Quote: It looks like his losses were half fit retrievers and no-implant pods, once in a .4 and once in a .6. The .6 loss was to a single CODE. guy. As I said elsewhere in this thread, and should have stated in my OP, I am not really talking about the retriever losses on this character. I was mostly talking about hauler ganks. I apologize for not being good at posting clearly yet. I have been a lurker for decades and I'm still learning how to post clearly and with preemptive answers to assumptions and questions. I do not publish the name of my hauler because I fear someone tracking it. Next time I will make that more clear. Since posting, I have actually learned a lot about staying safe while hauling thanks to some of you and just doing better homework. As far as mining goes, the retriever is just off the table for me now. I was lucky for years with that. And as far as taking a break goes, everyone should take breaks now and then. Especially if you feel frustrated, which I did when I first posted and that's understandable. If EVE were not frustrating sometimes, it would not be the brutal game we love.
Mobadder Thworst RainRunners 272	Posted - 2015.04.17 16:28:22 - [53] - Quote Amarrchecko wrote: Mobadder Thworst wrote: I think you are missing the OP's point. I think the OP has a valid point. 2 years ago, nobody would have ganked a noob mining vessel. It wasn't worth it. In between wars and flipping/baiting I would occasionally gank a bot miner just because I felt like they were cheating. I always announced it in local so everyone would come watch and give the miner a chance to be a person. It was fun for all. Ganking wasn't something you saw very often outside hulkageddon, which was a competition. Now Ganking is normally done all over empire... As a playstyle. 2 years ago, it made more sense to try to steal from a mining vessel to try to get a fight. Now it's safer and more controllable to just gank and let concord kill you. Short answer: all the guys who play Eve like "GTA: Space" have figured out that ganks are the easiest farmable crime mission. I'm not convinced that I'm missing the point (or that you got it). He asked two specific questions, which I addressed. It looks like his losses were half fit retrievers and no-implant pods, once in a .4 and once in a .6. The .6 loss was to a single CODE. guy. And the potential for these losses is enough to ruin his playstyle to the point he's taking a break from Eve? Even though there are a number of simple things he could do to reduce the chance of getting ganked and/or to help survive gank attempts that still happen? I think my reply was appropriate. Meanwhile, you're talking about when it is "worth it" to gank mining vessels? VENTURES? Come on, man. No one ganks miners to make money. They do it for fun. It's never "worth it" to gank a noob mining vessel. You can hardly make money no matter how you're ganking miners, even when you're getting reimbursed by James 315 AND using a second account to scoop up the little bit of loot there is after a gank. While your reply was efficient at pointing out how he could avoid these losses, I saw this as somewhat self-evident. I thought your reply was flippant and missed the important point I saw in his post, which was that Ganking is out of balance. I think Ganking is out of balance, and that the easiest way to kill a ship in high sec should be to pick a fight and get your opponent to acquiesce to the engagement. I know you're going to talk about duels, but that system is ineffective because I cannot provoke anyone... So why would they duel? As it is now I can get a higher probability of a kill vs my cost by Ganking than by suspect baiting. Shortly said, baiting for profit is now harder than Ganking for profit. Thus, Ganking is what we do. I believe this is an inversion in the game mechanics and that it is destructive.
Jasmine Cheryu Perkone Caldari State 0	Posted - 2015.04.17 22:58:53 - [54] - Quote oh it's 'this thread again' -- noob miners crying about code and other ganks How to avoid being ganked 101: 1. Keep local open + make all characters, alliances, and corporations (that you know of) red to all mining characters... therefore do not AFK mine and keep watching your local so you can gtfo when a red(s) comes into system. 2. This is a nice trick that everyone should learn to do -- go dock up where you, live, work, eat, ****, whatever (even the market hubs) and then instantly undock. Open people and places on the neocom and go to places tab (i think.. im on holiday at the moment and i'm not near a PC capable of playing eve, so excuse me) and 'save location' -- call it whatever you like.. personally i call it 'Base' or whatever.. --- why do this? This puts you right on top of the station you want to dock at, so you dont have the fly that extra 2,000m or so which happens on occasion when you right click and hit dock on a station in the drop down... 3. You can use ALL the mining ships, but you need to know their weaknesses and strengths. For those who are lazy and cant be bothered to figure it out: Hulk//Covetor -- FLEET MINING ONLY (note: these ships are paper thin and are easy as hell to gank, even if tanked well. watch local when flying one) Mackinaw//Retriever -- GREAT FOR SOLO MINING (note: these ships have a little more tank than hulks or covs, although they are still rather easy to gank if the gankers know what they are doing. Procurer//Skiff -- FABULOUS SHIP (note: this ship mines around the same amount as a mackinaw or retriever, but has the added risk of mining 'dead ore' (if you have a spin of 3,800m3's with your single mining laser on your skiff and you have a veldspar rock with only 1m3 of ore left.. you can pop that in 0.2 seconds, but if you leave it longer to run the full cycle.. you are mining 'dead ore') -- therefore, learn to 'active mine' and make assessments about when you need to turn off your mining laser, and reactivate it again. The skiff is brilliant, but if you wish to get the most out of it, one needs to active mine. Also note that these things tank like battleships.. i've flown them before with 110,000 EHP and can take on level 4 security missions, its a blast. 4. There are some VERY interesting methods to avoid being ganked, or to make things more difficult for the gankers, which i will outline now. 4.a: Mobile Microjump unit -- this is a recent deployable which has the ability to jump your ship 100km away, in the direction your ship is facing (if memory serves me well.. it takes 12 seconds to activate, so you need to be on the ball to use it). It WILL NOT WORK if your ship is being WARP DISRUPTED, but it will indeed work if you are being WARP SCRAMBLED (know the difference between your mods)... After you have been, effectively teleported 100km away, you can then warp to safety 4.b: Mobile Depot -- keep mods in your ship so you can change mods on the fly, if you see your gankers warp in, quickly change your lowslots out for armor tanking mods (for a little extra buff) and a damage control II 4.c: This is a very effective method, which I designed myself and called it 'belt prospecting'. It is making bookmarks around the belt, which are, A: still in range of all the rocks in the belt, and B: not right smack in the middle of the rocks, nor at the typical warp-in point of the belt itself.. so maybe 25km above the belt and above the rocks works nicely. These bookmarks once created will work consistently and will always drop you off at your location, even after downtime. Although do note, if you are ganked at one of these bookmarks, it would be wise to remove that bookmark and class it as 'void' and make another bookmark, similar to the last, but in a different location around the belt, whilst still being in range of the rocks 4.d: Keep a combat ship in your ship maintenence array on an orca (and of course maxtank your orca for anti-gank and NOT max cargo space. You can then switch ships accordingly if you need to defend yourself these ideas are just a little 'food for thought' and can indeed save your life if applied properly. There are certainly many many great ideas which can help with mining and avoid being ganked as well... ALTHOUGH, the best defence you have is setting standings of gankers to red, keeping local open and visible at all times (even in highsec....) and not AFK mining TL;DR -- treat highsec like lowsec, or nullsec and HTFU
Garmyne Atavuli Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 22	Posted - 2015.04.18 00:46:07 - [55] - Quote Jasmine Cheryu wrote: oh it's 'this thread again' -- noob miners crying about code and other ganks Hmmm, thread title: "Recent Increase in Highsec Ganks" Sure miners are affected but this is not just about miners, the tread is about hisec in GENERAL. I have seen no 'crying' here. As for the rest of what you said, verbatim regurgitation. Nothing anyone who mines hasn't read on any number of threads/sites. We have learned nothing from you, other than your ability to seem 'superior' EDIT... And the only reference I see to CODE. is a mention of loyalanon. Perhaps you should read the FULL thread before posting next time.
Barbara Nichole Cryogenic Consultancy 686	Posted - 2015.04.19 08:46:09 - [56] - Quote Yes, there have been more ganks in high sec... but no, it has nothing to do with clones. The key is that there has been a shift by high sec gankers to different targets. Mining populations have been reduced thanks to CCPs action against botting and changes to ice belts and refining. Because the the target base is smaller there is more of a chance you'll be hit. Just remember the risk is there in high sec .. even if the reward has been somewhat gutted. -á-á- remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not-á "afk" cloaking-á- [IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 15614	Posted - 2015.04.19 11:46:02 - [57] - Quote Mobadder Thworst wrote: . I think Ganking is out of balance What do you base this on? All records show ganking is well below its high point of a few years ago. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Mike Adoulin Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters 1246	Posted - 2015.04.19 19:46:41 - [58] - Quote Jasmine Cheryu wrote: 4.a: Mobile Microjump unit -- this is a recent deployable which has the ability to jump your ship 100km away, in the direction your ship is facing (if memory serves me well.. it takes 12 seconds to activate, so you need to be on the ball to use it). It WILL NOT WORK if your ship is being WARP DISRUPTED, but it will indeed work if you are being WARP SCRAMBLED (know the difference between your mods)... After you have been, effectively teleported 100km away, you can then warp to safety It's the other way around. Points have no effect on microjumps (mobile or otherwise) while a scram shuts them down. Other than that a good post. Everything in EVE is a trap. And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:) You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg. Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
Jasmine Cheryu Perkone Caldari State 0	Posted - 2015.04.19 20:54:59 - [59] - Quote Mike Adoulin wrote: It's the other way around. Points have no effect on microjumps (mobile or otherwise) while a scram shuts them down. Other than that a good post. Oh thanks -- I was 100% sure, I did the testing when the deployable was released, but obviously got confused between the modules =) Anyway thanks for the compliment, I appreciate it
Aleyla Chonis Adrift and at Peace JJS Spectral Coalition 0	Posted - 2015.04.23 16:57:51 - [60] - Quote Is ganking on the rise? Not sure, but I certainly lost several ships while still in hi-sec. Easy way to solve the problem: move to null. It's really quiet and certainly more profitable.



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