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Pesadel0
Vagabundos
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Posted - 2006.10.27 09:16:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Pesadel0 on 27/10/2006 09:17:34
Can someone tell me if the local is gone in kali ?
And if the BM are nerfed (Required skill,jump distance 0Km)?
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Mephysto
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Posted - 2006.10.27 09:23:00 -
[2]
Local will not be removed for the foreseeable future. BM changes are still under discussion afaik.
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.27 09:24:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Mephysto
BM changes are still under discussion afaik.
See how democracy sucks? :)
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Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Pesadel0
Vagabundos
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Posted - 2006.10.27 09:50:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Mephysto
Local will not be removed for the foreseeable future. BM changes are still under discussion afaik.
Thanks for the quick answer :).
Local will not be gone in kali and what about the BM?Are they still in discussing but are scheduled for kali 1 or are under discussion and are for kaili 2 or 3?
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Vala Draaken
Gallente
Madhatters Inc.
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Posted - 2006.10.27 10:26:00 -
[5]
Actually they improved local. It shows standings too, now.
Vala D.
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keepiru
Supernova Security Systems
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Posted - 2006.10.27 10:29:00 -
[6]
Kali 1 is in feature freeze, hence 2 or 3.
----------------
Please fix BC Sig/Agility! |
Severa Crest
Nomina Sacra Sapientia
Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.10.27 11:13:00 -
[7]
I put an insta bm solution here if any1 wants to check it out.
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Panta Rei
ISS Navy Task Force
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.27 11:14:00 -
[8]
Warp to 0, autopilot to 15 sounds good... (I'd be able to delete a ton of BMs...)
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Morealis
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.27 11:17:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Vala Draaken
Actually they improved local. It shows standings too, now.
Vala D.
You actualy mean this? Hunting npcers/miners in 0.0 is almost impossible on tq is it is. With these changes its going to be impossible. Ewww bad standing guy in local lets safespot/instadock/hide in a pos. These changes make me sick and wanna quit eve tbh.
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MECTO
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Posted - 2006.10.27 11:17:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Mephysto
Local will not be removed for the foreseeable future.
very sad rly  it should be rethinked in kali2 imho 
It's Great Being Carebear in Kali - aint it?
Originally by: Tuxford
In this picture you might think that Gallente totally pwn. Well they're alright
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MECTO
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Posted - 2006.10.27 11:20:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Morealis
Edited by: Morealis on 27/10/2006 11:19:17
Originally by: Vala Draaken
Actually they improved local. It shows standings too, now.
Vala D.
You actualy mean this? Hunting npcers/miners in 0.0 is almost impossible on tq as it is. With these changes its going to be impossible. Ewww bad standing guy in local lets safespot/instadock/hide in a pos. These changes make me sick and wanna quit eve tbh.
same here pal, but il just be a miner or explorer.. w8ting for kali2 
It's Great Being Carebear in Kali - aint it?
Originally by: Tuxford
In this picture you might think that Gallente totally pwn. Well they're alright
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Miss Overlord
Gallente
EUROPEANS
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Posted - 2006.10.27 11:26:00 -
[12]
the standings aspect is a very good idea - will encourage more peeps to work together and yeah will alert peeps to hostiles (that said a lot of peeps dont take the care to be alert in local) tho for solo killers will encourage small gangs to come after u (would have liked to seen local removed altogether but hey its an alternative) with the main focus being anti lag (less bookmarks)
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Nifel
Caldari
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.27 11:27:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Morealis
Edited by: Morealis on 27/10/2006 11:19:17
Originally by: Vala Draaken
Actually they improved local. It shows standings too, now.
Vala D.
You actualy mean this? Hunting npcers/miners in 0.0 is almost impossible on tq as it is. With these changes its going to be impossible. Ewww bad standing guy in local lets safespot/instadock/hide in a pos. These changes make me sick and wanna quit eve tbh.
What he mo said.
And here's my (old) proposed insta solution.
"When I die I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandpa. Not yelling and screaming like the passengers in his car."
RKK Ranking: (MIN14) |
The Armin
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.10.27 12:06:00 -
[14]
I agree on local to a certain extent but something would have to replace it. Max range on scanner would have to be increased and, like on other radar systems once unidentified ship is heading your way in warp or whatever some cute chick should calmly letting you know that we're having a "Red Alert, Ship to Condition 1, unknown ship on approach vector"
yarr. I imagine it would take a bit of overtime for the poor coders though.
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2006.10.27 12:24:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Morealis
Edited by: Morealis on 27/10/2006 11:19:17
Originally by: Vala Draaken
Actually they improved local. It shows standings too, now.
Vala D.
You actualy mean this? Hunting npcers/miners in 0.0 is almost impossible on tq as it is. With these changes its going to be impossible. Ewww bad standing guy in local lets safespot/instadock/hide in a pos. These changes make me sick and wanna quit eve tbh.
Nothings changed. Noone in low sec ever sits there without checking local (and if they do, they still wont check it), and when an unknown jumps into system, people always doa show info. This doesn't show any more than a show info does (less, infact), it just minimilises on the lag of having to process a million show-info requests a day.
Still, I want to see Local gone and replaced witha proper scanner one day, but it's certainly not a quick fix. They'll get to it when they get to it.
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rgreat
Gallente
OEG
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Posted - 2006.10.27 12:25:00 -
[16]
How about to show local only in stations ?:)
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Vala Draaken
Gallente
Madhatters Inc.
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Posted - 2006.10.27 12:51:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Patch86
Originally by: Morealis
Originally by: Vala Draaken
Actually they improved local. It shows standings too, now.
Vala D.
You actualy mean this? Hunting npcers/miners in 0.0 is almost impossible on tq as it is. With these changes its going to be impossible. Ewww bad standing guy in local lets safespot/instadock/hide in a pos. These changes make me sick and wanna quit eve tbh.
Nothings changed. Noone in low sec ever sits there without checking local (and if they do, they still wont check it), and when an unknown jumps into system, people always doa show info. This doesn't show any more than a show info does (less, infact), it just minimilises on the lag of having to process a million show-info requests a day.
...
Exactly. It doesn't change a thing. Those who do Show Info, every time someone entered local, will have a slightly easier time. Those who don't will keep getting jumped.
2 more:
Standings in local 1
Standings in local 2
Vala D.
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BOldMan
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.27 13:06:00 -
[18]
Edited by: BOldMan on 27/10/2006 13:08:00
Originally by: Vala Draaken
Originally by: Patch86
Originally by: Morealis
Originally by: Vala Draaken
Actually they improved local. It shows standings too, now.
Vala D.
You actualy mean this? Hunting npcers/miners in 0.0 is almost impossible on tq as it is. With these changes its going to be impossible. Ewww bad standing guy in local lets safespot/instadock/hide in a pos. These changes make me sick and wanna quit eve tbh.
Nothings changed. Noone in low sec ever sits there without checking local (and if they do, they still wont check it), and when an unknown jumps into system, people always doa show info. This doesn't show any more than a show info does (less, infact), it just minimilises on the lag of having to process a million show-info requests a day.
...
Exactly. It doesn't change a thing. Those who do Show Info, every time someone entered local, will have a slightly easier time. Those who don't will keep getting jumped.
2 more:
Standings in local 1
Standings in local 2
Vala D.
Is not same reaction time of watching local and browsing info for each new player. That is a great nerf for hunting/killing miners/npc-ers. You will kill from now only afk people. Nice. Realistic speaking I dont see the point of having local when you dont own the gate sistem. If you dont own the gate sistem, why you should know from belts who just jump in? I prefer to have no local at all than having such a obvious warning. All this 'improvments' in last time encourage the trap-logging, evade logging, cloak-alt perma logg, insta-docking and re-insta-docking and much more very lame tactics. Really:
- how can a ship vanish in space?
- how can you see local pilots without owning the gate sistem?
and of course:
- how an alliance can control his space when the tools are helping outsiders?
CCP maybe try to make a better game, but very often make a 'unrealistic' game and whole discution about reward/risk is a joke.
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hitech redneck
Digital Mind Crimes
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Posted - 2006.10.27 14:35:00 -
[19]
why is it you only see the pirates/griefers crying to remove local. Local is fine. If It was removed the pirated would cry then to saying its to hard to see if there is a target in the system.
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Serapis Aote
TBC
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Posted - 2006.10.27 15:00:00 -
[20]
switch current local to constellation and that would be great. Retains all the benefits of what local should be, without it being the intelligence tool it is now.
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Naal Morno
ECP Rogues
Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.10.27 15:01:00 -
[21]
Originally by: hitech redneck
why is it you only see the pirates/griefers crying to remove local. Local is fine. If It was removed the pirated would cry then to saying its to hard to see if there is a target in the system.
Amen!
Anyways, local only shows standings, not security rating. So what's the problem?
_________________________________________
The cloaky orchestrator |
Kruel
Blunt Force Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.27 15:11:00 -
[22]
Local should be an option. Those who have local open are visible to others in local.
Pvp is dead in this game aside from the gate camping... but that's hardly pvp.
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Serapis Aote
TBC
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Posted - 2006.10.27 15:47:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Naal Morno
Originally by: hitech redneck
why is it you only see the pirates/griefers crying to remove local. Local is fine. If It was removed the pirated would cry then to saying its to hard to see if there is a target in the system.
Amen!
Anyways, local only shows standings, not security rating. So what's the problem?
The problem is from a pvp standpoint, it moves most pvp to gate camping.
Because the only people you can get while roaming are the ones too stupid or busy to look at local and warp out.
And the truth is gate camping is not fun for either the camper or its unlucky victims.
There are enough tools available that if local was removed or moved to constellation, the NPCer or miner would still be safe most of the time. It just gives the hunters and pirates at least some chance of gettting a jump on someone at someplace other then a gate.
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Aquila Lightwielder
N.A.G.A Corporation
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Posted - 2006.10.27 16:02:00 -
[24]
you could justify the local by people being connected to a network with the stargates, everyone has to jump trough a stargate to get into a system (cept for capital ships) and when that happens they get registred with the stargate and thereby everyone in the system.
Having standings in local just removes more lagg from the game (wich is something I don't object against), and I don't really see the extremly big difference between now local and the new local. If it's gonna make life a itsy bit harder for the pirate it's a good compromise for removing a major lagg-source. Just imagine everyone clearing out their adressbooks of hundreds of thousands of contacts, I know I will.
If you can't catch people straight away in a system use recon ships or something, wait till they're comfortable and then take them. Adapt, don't whine :)
Teh NAGA ShopÖ |
Sonho
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Posted - 2006.10.27 16:06:00 -
[25]
Originally by: hitech redneck
why is it you only see the pirates/griefers crying to remove local. Local is fine. If It was removed the pirated would cry then to saying its to hard to see if there is a target in the system.
From a perspective of a hunter to prey if local would vanish ,people mining,ratting ,etc would be more hard to find ...
It is not a easy problem to fix but local wasn't meant to be a recon tool .
Maybe if it was a delay or if in 0.0 there wasn't no local ,things whould be better and promote real recon on systeams not jumping in a alt and seeying the local .
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xBounty Hunterx
Blood Inquisition
Sani Khal'Vecna
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Posted - 2006.10.27 16:17:00 -
[26]
Edited by: xBounty Hunterx on 27/10/2006 16:17:44
You want a Local Solution?
Make it so that only people that have said something in local show up on the right.
Sorta like alliance chat seems to be in TQ.
And i dont know how but make it that if someone in your gang see's someone who hasnt spoken in local yet (not on the right. list of names.) they can report in that they have seen him and the gang will then see him in local.
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Aquila Lightwielder
N.A.G.A Corporation
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Posted - 2006.10.27 16:17:00 -
[27]
could maybe even implement a skill called "stargate hacking" or something, so pirates had a 40% chanse to hack the stargate registration system to not appear on local :p well who knows
Teh NAGA ShopÖ |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.10.27 16:20:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Serapis Aote
Originally by: Naal Morno
Originally by: hitech redneck
why is it you only see the pirates/griefers crying to remove local. Local is fine. If It was removed the pirated would cry then to saying its to hard to see if there is a target in the system.
Amen!
Anyways, local only shows standings, not security rating. So what's the problem?
The problem is from a pvp standpoint, it moves most pvp to gate camping.
Because the only people you can get while roaming are the ones too stupid or busy to look at local and warp out.
And the truth is gate camping is not fun for either the camper or its unlucky victims.
There are enough tools available that if local was removed or moved to constellation, the NPCer or miner would still be safe most of the time. It just gives the hunters and pirates at least some chance of gettting a jump on someone at someplace other then a gate.
I have a little mixed feeling on local: it is an important tool to socialize and get to know people, even supposedly ostile ones.
The scanner effect is a mixed blessing (useful both for the prey and the predator). But has a big advantage: it use little space in your screen. If I had to use the scanner as now stand, or the little I have seen on sisi I would use a lot of my screen space, reducing my efficency for a lot of things, and get a more confusing information as I need to separate the ships from the other items displayed, and reducing the overview setting to the point of only displaing the ships and use the overview setting in the scan screen make overview almost useless.
So, for me, local stay.
I find the option to go on constellation unsuitable as a single busy sisem in the constellation can spam all other palyers, even tose that need a clear channel, and lose a lot for socializing.
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Andrachim Tar'nar
The first genesis
Myriad Alliance
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Posted - 2006.10.27 16:51:00 -
[29]
Keeping Local in 0.1+ and removing local from 0.0 might be an interesting idea. There has to be an option to aquire localinfo for system "holding" corps/alliances then. But again there is the problem with spys so it's hard to balance. I'm not creative enough to think of a good workaround. It sure would be fun having to "secure" your main routes in 0.0 as an alliance and there might be nice fights for "local control". But tbh the current way to own a system ( pos spamming ) is so boring that I don't really want to give it a huge push.
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Hansoloo
Supero Omnia
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Posted - 2006.10.27 17:27:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Hansoloo on 27/10/2006 17:27:32
Originally by: Pesadel0
Originally by: Mephysto
Local will not be removed for the foreseeable future. BM changes are still under discussion afaik.
Thanks for the quick answer :).
Local will not be gone in kali and what about the BM?Are they still in discussing but are scheduled for kali 1 or are under discussion and are for kaili 2 or 3?
Wow your smart arn't you.. What grade you in how 3rd?
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Razin
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Posted - 2006.10.27 17:31:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Nifel
And here's my (old) proposed insta solution.
Nice. I like j0sephine's idea the best personally.
As a rule, any insta solution should add to the game, not make it simpler and/or dumb it down.
... |
Joerd Toastius
Octavian Vanguard
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Posted - 2006.10.27 18:07:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Razin
Originally by: Mephysto
Local will not be removed for the foreseeable future.
So the log-on trap is still the only way to ambush. Ok.
What's wrong with an old-school gatecamp ambush? |
Nicocat
Caldari
New Age Solutions
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Posted - 2006.10.27 18:08:00 -
[33]
Another day, another set of whiners *****ing about local. So it shows standings. Big whoop. It's fine by me, and I'm a pirate.
----------------------------
Please don't try to troll in your signature -Eldo([email protected])
I tried? |
Erikel
Cosmic Odyssey
Chorus of Dawn
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Posted - 2006.10.27 19:02:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Hansoloo
Edited by: Hansoloo on 27/10/2006 17:27:32
Originally by: Pesadel0
Originally by: Mephysto
Local will not be removed for the foreseeable future. BM changes are still under discussion afaik.
Thanks for the quick answer :).
Local will not be gone in kali and what about the BM?Are they still in discussing but are scheduled for kali 1 or are under discussion and are for kaili 2 or 3?
Wow your smart arn't you.. What grade you in how 3rd?
Lmao, at least he can spell. Best you just learn to do the same before flaming someone for no reason. 
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Serapis Aote
TBC
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Posted - 2006.10.27 19:19:00 -
[35]
Local solution
in high sec empire it stays the same.
In low sec and 0.0 it switches to constellation.
two options.
Local still shows number...but not who.
Local message when someone jumps in. But doesnt say which gate.
This way people dont have to sit with scanner open and run it every 3 seconds. They just have to do it when someone new jumps in.
I think because of this, the rewards for 0.0 and low sec should be increased to reflect the increased difficulty.
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ceaon
Gallente
Porandor
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Posted - 2006.10.27 19:19:00 -
[36]
just 1 Q : will be local a delayed channel ?
kill alt post thx |
Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2006.10.27 19:24:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Morealis
Edited by: Morealis on 27/10/2006 11:19:17
Originally by: Vala Draaken
Actually they improved local. It shows standings too, now.
Vala D.
You actualy mean this? Hunting npcers/miners in 0.0 is almost impossible on tq as it is. With these changes its going to be impossible. Ewww bad standing guy in local lets safespot/instadock/hide in a pos. These changes make me sick and wanna quit eve tbh.
Train those scanning skills to use probes, you might have some luck if they've safespotted!
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Razin
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Posted - 2006.10.27 19:25:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Joerd Toastius
Originally by: Razin
Originally by: Mephysto
Local will not be removed for the foreseeable future.
So the log-on trap is still the only way to ambush. Ok.
What's wrong with an old-school gatecamp ambush?
Ambush tactics usually employ concealment and surprise. ThereÆs neither in a gate camp.
... |
BigJohn451
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Posted - 2006.10.27 20:47:00 -
[39]
For people who want to remove local fine. If they remove local I want them to remove ability to log off outside of a station. Talk about griefing people, log in, no one knows your in game now go shoot someone they scream hostile, safespot log out. Absolutely no chance to run down a hostile, wait 30 minutes rinse repeat. 1 recon cruiser can keep a entire area locked down now let alone if you never know they are there to begin with.
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Adoran Wa'alle
Caldari
5punkorp
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.27 21:16:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Razin
Originally by: Joerd Toastius
Originally by: Razin
Originally by: Mephysto
Local will not be removed for the foreseeable future.
So the log-on trap is still the only way to ambush. Ok.
What's wrong with an old-school gatecamp ambush?
Ambush tactics usually employ concealment and surprise. ThereÆs neither in a gate camp.
No suprise in a gatecamp?
a hauler travels through 0.0, feeling relatively safe and not sensing any danger. jumps through a gate, BAM. locked, scrambled, webbed, nossed, jammed and so on. That isn't suprise? it's also concealment, seeing as he had no idea the camp was on the other side.
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Illuminaty
ISS Logistics
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.27 22:17:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Illuminaty on 27/10/2006 22:17:51
Originally by: Adoran Wa'alle
No suprise in a gatecamp?
a hauler travels through 0.0, feeling relatively safe and not sensing any danger. jumps through a gate, BAM. locked, scrambled, webbed, nossed, jammed and so on. That isn't suprise? it's also concealment, seeing as he had no idea the camp was on the other side.
You _shouldn't_ be suprised by a gate camp.
Look at your map. Gate camps are typically static, unless one *just* formed, it will be on the map.
Fly a shuttle to scout the route. There is _no_ way short of a login trap to avoid being detected by that shuttle.
Local is total bull. At least make the scouts do some work before they can give a system a clean bill of health. This 'omg I see you in local' mechanic is just lame.
The fact that a 15 second old character is as good a scout as any other character in the game should be an indication that something is totally messed up, and local is the reason for it.
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Kaathar Rielspar
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.10.27 22:45:00 -
[42]
and more to the point, any convoy worth jumping also has scouts 2-3 jumps ahead and spotting said gatecamps before the valuables are even remotely near
however, random solo haulers will still get a hell of a shock
____________________
Originally by: Jerick Ludhowe
Originally by: Eximius Josari
If BS Sized HACs would be overpowered, what are HACs?
Overpriced Nos victims.
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Razin
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Posted - 2006.10.27 23:35:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Adoran Wa'alle
Originally by: Razin
Originally by: Joerd Toastius
Originally by: Razin
Originally by: Mephysto
Local will not be removed for the foreseeable future.
So the log-on trap is still the only way to ambush. Ok.
What's wrong with an old-school gatecamp ambush?
Ambush tactics usually employ concealment and surprise. ThereÆs neither in a gate camp.
No suprise in a gatecamp?
a hauler travels through 0.0, feeling relatively safe and not sensing any danger. jumps through a gate, BAM. locked, scrambled, webbed, nossed, jammed and so on. That isn't suprise? it's also concealment, seeing as he had no idea the camp was on the other side.
Flawed premise leads to erroneous conclusions.
With map, alt scouts, and Local there is no ambushing in EVE using purely in-game mechanics.
... |
Evil RedEye
Minmatar
SystemLords
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Posted - 2006.10.28 09:32:00 -
[44]
With the standings now being shown in local, would that include those you are at war with?
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Joerd Toastius
Octavian Vanguard
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Posted - 2006.10.28 10:14:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Illuminaty
Edited by: Illuminaty on 27/10/2006 22:17:51
Originally by: Adoran Wa'alle
No suprise in a gatecamp?
a hauler travels through 0.0, feeling relatively safe and not sensing any danger. jumps through a gate, BAM. locked, scrambled, webbed, nossed, jammed and so on. That isn't suprise? it's also concealment, seeing as he had no idea the camp was on the other side.
You _shouldn't_ be suprised by a gate camp.
You shouldn't be surprised by hostiles entering local either. The standings display in Kali only makes it harder when hunting dumb people who don't watch local or listen to regional comms - which are also currently the only people you'll ambush in a gatecamp - and if they're that dumb local flagging probably won't make any difference there either. Adding standings to local just stops people who [i]are[/] paying attention from getting RSI and/or being killed while waiting for the "show info" window to load. It's not a substantial change in that regard. |
AKULA UrQuan
Caldari
STK Scientific
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.10.28 10:32:00 -
[46]
I swear some people just love haveing 1,000+ people in their buddies list generating extra server load.
Anyway, I'm all for killing local. Long as the map functions such as "pilots active inspace", Jumps in the last hour" and "faction ships destroyed in the last 24 hours" go with it. level the playing field for all.
Originally by: Wrangler
Win ME is more a some sort of virus than a OS..
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Alekto Erinys
Platinum Investments
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Posted - 2006.10.30 01:14:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Serapis Aote
Local solution
in high sec empire it stays the same.
In low sec and 0.0 it switches to constellation.
TBH, I think this is the solution we're looking for. If implemented, it means that you can look at Constellation chat and see if there might be a gang of hostiles near you, but you can't be sure if they're 10+ jumps away or in the next belt without doing a little work. The same goes for pirates. There's potential prey in this Constellation... time to hunt. Sounds kinda fun actually 
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Razin
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Posted - 2006.10.30 02:10:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Alekto Erinys
Originally by: Serapis Aote
Local solution
in high sec empire it stays the same.
In low sec and 0.0 it switches to constellation.
TBH, I think this is the solution we're looking for. If implemented, it means that you can look at Constellation chat and see if there might be a gang of hostiles near you, but you can't be sure if they're 10+ jumps away or in the next belt without doing a little work. The same goes for pirates. There's potential prey in this Constellation... time to hunt. Sounds kinda fun actually
Can you name any constellations that are "10+ jumps" in size?
In any case, what's the case for free access to this intel on a constellation level? If you feel like talking to someone you can always open one of the existing channels, or, if you're in high sec use local - you've got nothing to worry about anyway. In low sec hardly anyone talks in local so it's usefulness as a "tool for making friends" there is debatable.
... |
Rannoc
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Posted - 2006.10.30 15:55:00 -
[49]
Originally by: xBounty Hunterx
Edited by: xBounty Hunterx on 27/10/2006 16:17:44
You want a Local Solution?
Make it so that only people that have said something in local show up on the right.
Sorta like alliance chat seems to be in TQ.
Agreed, this would be the best solution. Chat should not be a free scan/recon tool. If someone stays quiet then they should not be on the local.
To everyone that is wining about "It will make it too hard to find players/miners" BS, you would find them just like you would any NPC. Use the scan buttom or fly to the belts. If you want your prize then work for.
--R
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Serapis Aote
TBC
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Posted - 2006.10.30 16:31:00 -
[50]
Originally by: AKULA UrQuan
I swear some people just love haveing 1,000+ people in their buddies list generating extra server load.
Anyway, I'm all for killing local. Long as the map functions such as "pilots active inspace", Jumps in the last hour" and "faction ships destroyed in the last 24 hours" go with it. level the playing field for all.
Agree new system is better then the buddlist.
I also agree with the map changes as well. If they removed local, remove pilots in system and jumps.
It only seems fair.
However...i think this whole discussion is moot. It does not seem like local is going away. I think if they did remove it, it would make the game more fun and exciting. Rather then the current, see new pilot, warp to pos we have now.
I think they really like gate camping, because with local that is all that is left. That and killing idiots who dont check local, and are probably just afk, wow thats fun.
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Joerd Toastius
Octavian Vanguard
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Posted - 2006.10.30 20:16:00 -
[51]
Originally by: AKULA UrQuan
I swear some people just love haveing 1,000+ people in their buddies list generating extra server load.
Anyway, I'm all for killing local. Long as the map functions such as "pilots active inspace", Jumps in the last hour" and "faction ships destroyed in the last 24 hours" go with it. level the playing field for all.
Or, better still, you can opt to leave local totally, at which point you don't show up on it but you also don't get to see it.
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Liru Okami
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Posted - 2006.10.30 21:27:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Liru Okami on 30/10/2006 21:36:04
Edited by: Liru Okami on 30/10/2006 21:34:59
Edited by: Liru Okami on 30/10/2006 21:34:00
Yes quit now **** for brains. those people dont want to deal with being killed and hunted for no frikin reason. Every MMO that offers unrestricted PVP becomes a monumental failure. Other games go as far as putting up PVP servers to cater to the crowd that wants that kind of game. so if being able to imedately identify you twits the same way that you can see a potential target warping into the system makes you want to leave i am all for it.
Aww is the little BOB sad because local isnt "his" exploit any more? Boo Frelling Hoo
Originally by: Morealis
You actualy mean this? Hunting npcers/miners in 0.0 is almost impossible on tq as it is. With these changes its going to be impossible. Ewww bad standing guy in local lets safespot/instadock/hide in a pos. These changes make me sick and wanna quit eve tbh.
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Sonho
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Posted - 2006.10.30 21:52:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Liru Okami
Edited by: Liru Okami on 30/10/2006 21:36:04
Edited by: Liru Okami on 30/10/2006 21:34:59
Edited by: Liru Okami on 30/10/2006 21:34:00
Yes quit now **** for brains. those people dont want to deal with being killed and hunted for no frikin reason. Every MMO that offers unrestricted PVP becomes a monumental failure. Other games go as far as putting up PVP servers to cater to the crowd that wants that kind of game. so if being able to imedately identify you twits the same way that you can see a potential target warping into the system makes you want to leave i am all for it.
Aww is the little BOB sad because local isnt "his" exploit any more? Boo Frelling Hoo
Originally by: Morealis
You actualy mean this? Hunting npcers/miners in 0.0 is almost impossible on tq as it is. With these changes its going to be impossible. Ewww bad standing guy in local lets safespot/instadock/hide in a pos. These changes make me sick and wanna quit eve tbh.
Mate if you are a smart NPCer ,you should think about it for awhile,if the hostiles don't see ya on local they will move out(if you are out of scan range).
With local ,is far more easier to get intel meaning that you and the hunter will have intel and guess what, if you loose a a second on local you will die...
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Liru Okami
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Posted - 2006.10.30 22:00:00 -
[54]
The devs dont plan to remove local and apparently not even you dont show up in local if you dont talk. So this is the next best thing the jerk knows i'm there but i dont have to spam the profile search to know he is too, or which one he is.
Besides that i Scan systems with my Covert Ops now before doing anything important in one. Just saves me the headache and makes a terrible one for the rats i do find.
PS: "I am in your safe spot, killing your mans."
Originally by: Sonho
Mate if you are a smart NPCer ,you should think about it for awhile,if the hostiles don't see ya on local they will move out(if you are out of scan range).
With local ,is far more easier to get intel meaning that you and the hunter will have intel and guess what, if you loose a a second on local you will die...
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Pesadel0
Vagabundos
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Posted - 2006.10.31 00:02:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Liru Okami
The devs dont plan to remove local and apparently not even you dont show up in local if you dont talk. So this is the next best thing the jerk knows i'm there but i dont have to spam the profile search to know he is too, or which one he is.
Besides that i Scan systems with my Covert Ops now before doing anything important in one. Just saves me the headache and makes a terrible one for the rats i do find.
PS: "I am in your safe spot, killing your mans."
Originally by: Sonho
Mate if you are a smart NPCer ,you should think about it for awhile,if the hostiles don't see ya on local they will move out(if you are out of scan range).
With local ,is far more easier to get intel meaning that you and the hunter will have intel and guess what, if you loose a a second on local you will die...
K that was my alt sorry ,i tried to respond with some level of respect but you seem to be a troll and a bad one at that.Local is updated on the fly .....
Mephisto said "Local will not be removed for the foreseeable future. BM changes are still under discussion afaik."
In the foreseeble future so i can presume that it isnt in kali but it is on kali 2 or 3 ?
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Liru Okami
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Posted - 2006.10.31 01:07:00 -
[56]
Diddent meen to sound trollish the in your safespot thing was just a bit of humor. (Mac Hall junkie)
I do hope that "forseeable" meens in this patch and not "we never even concidered it" The warp in at 0km would stop alot of the drama too. when you warp into lowsec you have the gate cloak warping to the next gate at 0km meens that even if someone is camping your out of the system and dont have to deal with them. Even if you have a mission in the system you warp to the cordinates and are in deadspace so it's even harder to find.
Originally by: Pesadel0
K that was my alt sorry ,i tried to respond with some level of respect but you seem to be a troll and a bad one at that.Local is updated on the fly .....
Mephisto said "Local will not be removed for the foreseeable future. BM changes are still under discussion afaik."
In the foreseeble future so i can presume that it isnt in kali but it is on kali 2 or 3 ?
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Skybar
Minmatar
Deviance Inc
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2006.10.31 03:29:00 -
[57]
Standings in local is more positive than negative at this moment.
However, a solution to remove local and rely on player skills & modules for effective scouting would of course be the best.
If there would be skills/posibilities to improve the scanner, there would hopefully be skills/posibilities to be harder to be seen by these scanners aswell, which would give pirates some love, and some actual real Ambush's could happen.
"Dauntless fleet commander, or the most nefarious pirate ever to terrorize the galaxy" |
Sexorella hotz
Beasts of Burden
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.10.31 05:01:00 -
[58]
Local has no base in reality, booooo!
I apologize for the lack of content, but I think at least covops should have the ability to not have to register with local channels, but I still think it should be an option for anyone...
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Panta Rei
Eternity INC.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.10.31 10:47:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Sexorella hotz
Local has no base in reality, booooo!
I apologize for the lack of content, but I think at least covops should have the ability to not have to register with local channels, but I still think it should be an option for anyone...
Well, one could argue that local is somewhat like having a log of who has jumped through a stargate into the system without having jumped out again.
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QwaarJet
Gallente
Rage of Angels
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.10.31 13:39:00 -
[60]
Edited by: QwaarJet on 31/10/2006 13:38:42
Local is fine the way it is, and it's staying that way for a long time. Get over it.
"Hobbes, she stepped into the Perimeter Of Wisdom.Run!" |
Pytria Le'Danness
Placid Reborn
Placid Coalition
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Posted - 2006.11.02 07:35:00 -
[61]
Local works both ways, it tells the enterer if there are targets around, and it tells the people in system who entered.
Would EVE be better if it were removed? I think not. Being in low sec or 0.0 would become more tricky mainly for those who are not out hunting for other players.
Picture this scenario:
Let's assume all tools to determine who is in a system (local, map, whatnot) are removed except for scanners. Someone is looking for PvP and flying around to find a target. It does not matter if the "someone" is a pirate, anti-pirate, alliance member or someone looking for war targets. He enters a system and has to scan each belt and each planet to see if someone is there. After half an hour he determined he is alone in the system and moves on to the next one to repeat the process. And that only if there are no parked ships anywhere, because he could think that the Kestrel or Auguror that someone dropped at a safespot is actually a piloted ship.
Will that be realistic? Yes.
Will it be fun? For me it won't.
Look at it the other way 'round. Someone (carebear, mission runner, whatever) is in a system and does not want to get killed. So he has to have his scanner open all the time and refresh it every few seconds to see if some new ship appeared. As soon as anything is seen he has to safespot and wait until his scanner is clear again.
Same situation, same result: it will turn the game into a Watch-The-Scanner thing that quickly becomes boring.
Next example:
Picture the ideal alliance. They have one gate to their territory, and camp it 23/7 to prevent anyone from getting in. However anintruder waited for downtime and logged in a few seconds before the camp did, with just enough time to enter system and cloak or leave the gate. With local the alliance could see that someone is around and block the other gates, without local someone used an out of game problem to gain an in game advantage.
So yes, local is very powerful and unrealistic. But it helps to keep the game interesting, and thus I'd wish people would stop whining that it needs nerfing.
Corporation RP channel: "PlacidReborn" |
Jim Lovell
Gallente
Darkblade Technologies
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.11.02 07:38:00 -
[62]
omg remove local what are you people on about just so you guys can creep up and kill people with no warning ...pls be quiet lol
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Xordus
Beasts of Burden
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.11.02 09:38:00 -
[63]
Eve would be much more exciting if there was no local..
http://show.imagehosting.us/show/1339817/0/nouser_1339/T0_-1_1339817.JPG your image host has seemed to have stopped hosting your sig, insurting a picture that is too big for the forums instead, i advise use of http://www.eve-files.com/ - Huitzilopochtli Tlaloc |
Nicholai Pestot
Gallente
Havoc Inc
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Posted - 2006.11.02 10:05:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Nicholai Pestot on 02/11/2006 10:10:49
Edited by: Nicholai Pestot on 02/11/2006 10:06:10
Originally by: Pytria Le'Danness
He enters a system and has to scan each belt and each planet to see if someone is there. After half an hour he determined he is alone in the system and moves on to the next one to repeat the process. And that only if there are no parked ships anywhere, because he could think that the Kestrel or Auguror that someone dropped at a safespot is actually a piloted ship.
Will that be realistic? Yes.
Will it be fun? For me it won't.
Don't know about you, but i can scan the averages system clean in about 2 minutes with a fast ship and thats assuming that the belts, stations and gates are quite spread out. Learning what ships are always in a system abandoned at a SS is just part of building up local knowledge 
Now local doesn't hurt me too much as i see it. Me and mine use alts to locate people in belts so if your only 5 seconds behind checking local for ebil types it will be too late for you as there will already be multiple fast tacklers on the way to the belt your at.
The ideal situation (as i see it) would be
Hi-sec> Local
Lowsec>No local but deployable probes that provide a realtime interface directly integrated into the dynamic map of kali that pickup ship types in their radius.
Kick some out by the gates and near your belt.
Give them a 20 minute to 1 hr life time based on varying types and skills.
0.0>Method integrated into system control that favours defenders but requires logistical support.
The proposed scanning coming in Kali is nice, but a real-time system to replace local is needed sooooo much.
Now as i said, local don't hurt me none but i would prefer to belt pirate reliably without alts
I dont ask much, just that avoiding PvP take as much effort as forcing pvp 
________________
What you do is you store up the rage, let it fester while you gain strength, then use it to gank those weaker than you... and so the circle of life is complete |
Burkio Ivory
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Posted - 2006.11.02 11:13:00 -
[65]
Hmm, let's see..spend 3-4 month's perfecting my skill's as a Cvop frig - OR, use an alt, which all-in-all from logging off to typing in the alt password and entering the game took a grand total of a minute only to scout local which in some cases would be an even greater element of suprise then that of a 2year old player.
Scenario #1 ::: "OMG A 2YEAR OLD CHARACTER, OH AND LOOK, HE'S IN THE SAME ALLIANCE WE'RE AT WAR WITH!11 LEAVE LOCAL ASAP" = BAD
Scenario #2 ::: "Lol, look at that nub achura ramming my megathron which is parked ontop of the Sehmy gate in the Ami system with my other 13 Battleshipped friend's located in the Kor-Azor region...hey did you see the game last night?" = GOOD
People are talking about how it'd ruin the social system in the game. Honestly, i'd love to see anyone enter a 0.4,0.3etc. system and try striking up a conversation with said person, don't be suprised to not receieve a response as they're too busy aligning out of the belt to the nearest station only to AFK untill you've left the area, even though you just wanted to socialize, go figure.
I digress, if you look at the issue from a broader view it'd actually give every ship in the game a more defined, realistic, sense of feeling - hell, it'd even give the overlooked logistic's and reconissance frig's their role back. It'd be fun as hell to see alliances actually form a FLEETto counter another fleet in an epic 1onl clash..or we can stick with gank squad's which consist of 3-5 battleship's ontop of a gate and an alt in the system they're camping the way to, FUN!
It's so stupidly easy to fix, this ongoing problem, with CURRENT ingame option's we have now, so the developers and designers won't have to whine about concocting new idea's and having to refine the idea's into the story and then having another idea to balance that idea, etc. -Sigh- Local's must be terminated or relooked.
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ShardowRhino
Legion 0f The Damned
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Posted - 2006.11.02 12:54:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Aquila Lightwielder
you could justify the local by people being connected to a network with the stargates, everyone has to jump trough a stargate to get into a system (cept for capital ships) and when that happens they get registred with the stargate and thereby everyone in the system.
Having standings in local just removes more lagg from the game (wich is something I don't object against), and I don't really see the extremly big difference between now local and the new local. If it's gonna make life a itsy bit harder for the pirate it's a good compromise for removing a major lagg-source. Just imagine everyone clearing out their adressbooks of hundreds of thousands of contacts, I know I will.
If you can't catch people straight away in a system use recon ships or something, wait till they're comfortable and then take them. Adapt, don't whine :)
QFT+logic!!!!!
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Popsikle
Caffeine Commodities Company
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2006.11.02 13:24:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Morealis
Edited by: Morealis on 27/10/2006 11:19:17
Originally by: Vala Draaken
Actually they improved local. It shows standings too, now.
Vala D.
You actualy mean this? Hunting npcers/miners in 0.0 is almost impossible on tq as it is. With these changes its going to be impossible. Ewww bad standing guy in local lets safespot/instadock/hide in a pos. These changes make me sick and wanna quit eve tbh.
Uh, let see, wont 90% of Miners/farmers that dont know you probably safe spot in 0.0 when you enter now? Whats the major difference? People that have you set to a negative standing, that dont want to fight, should be SSing now when you enter local, and those that dont think you are a bad d00d arent going to now, or post patch... Until you gank em at least once.
I fail to see your point, Is it hidden in you whine somewhere?
__________________________________________
-= We Fly for our people =-
-= I fly for Blood =- |
Mij Ornah
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Posted - 2006.11.02 16:22:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Mij Ornah on 02/11/2006 16:30:25
Edited by: Mij Ornah on 02/11/2006 16:25:53
Originally by: Morealis
Edited by: Morealis on 27/10/2006 11:19:17
Originally by: Vala Draaken
Actually they improved local. It shows standings too, now.
Vala D.
You actualy mean this? Hunting npcers/miners in 0.0 is almost impossible on tq as it is. With these changes its going to be impossible. Ewww bad standing guy in local lets safespot/instadock/hide in a pos. These changes make me sick and wanna quit eve tbh.
Um... WTF dude? You're sick because people in boats with no guns or with setups that don't favor PvP duck and cover when you roll through with your uber PvP setup? Exactly what do you expect them to do, hold still and die for your entertainment? Of course they're going to head for cover if they have half a brain. Hate to tell you this, but if that's your idea of PvP, go back to NPCing. It's about as much of a challenge.
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Riddick06
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Posted - 2006.11.02 17:50:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Rid****06 on 02/11/2006 17:50:19
Originally by: Serapis Aote
switch current local to constellation and that would be great. Retains all the benefits of what local should be, without it being the intelligence tool it is now.
scenario 1: omg theres a bandit in our alliance 0.0 controlled space!! quick everyone report in your system!
scenario 2: Omg theres a bandit in our alliance 0.0 controlled space!! quick someone get a locator on that muthafudger so we can nuke em.
With the intended standings in local it will just make it easier for alliances to tell when theres an unwelcome guest in their system full of carebearing miners/mission runners.
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Sonho
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Posted - 2006.11.02 18:35:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Oveur
Local shouldn't be a tactical tool, it's for chat.
Local will change, it's just a question of how and when. Kali brings some pre-requisites which we feel are necessary steps towards a change, but we're not there yet.
Rejoice ;),cause it is going down .
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Skeltek
Caldari
Asgard Schiffswerften
Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.11.02 18:42:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Mij Ornah
Edited by: Mij Ornah on 02/11/2006 16:30:25
Edited by: Mij Ornah on 02/11/2006 16:25:53
Originally by: Morealis
Edited by: Morealis on 27/10/2006 11:19:17
Originally by: Vala Draaken
Actually they improved local. It shows standings too, now.
Vala D.
You actualy mean this? Hunting npcers/miners in 0.0 is almost impossible on tq as it is. With these changes its going to be impossible. Ewww bad standing guy in local lets safespot/instadock/hide in a pos. These changes make me sick and wanna quit eve tbh.
Um... WTF dude? You're sick because people in boats with no guns or with setups that don't favor PvP duck and cover when you roll through with your uber PvP setup? Exactly what do you expect them to do, hold still and die for your entertainment? Of course they're going to head for cover if they have half a brain. Hate to tell you this, but if that's your idea of PvP, go back to NPCing. It's about as much of a challenge.
If you are totaly honest, local chat supports gankers more than it does defenders. It makes you only able to gang uncautious unexperienced people. Any try to hunt down the offenders is chanceless. Any PvPer not wanting to gank but rather have even fights against equaly experienced adversarys is doomed to not get any engagements at all.
PvP shouldn¦t be focused on gatecamps and noob-ganking, without the attackers risking any fight they don¦t want at all. I got sick of people ganking the defenceless or unexperienced. It¦s become too rare to get good fights at all. Pirates and the like can kill easy prey as they please, not risking much. Like it is now, you only get fights with BoB, Outbreak and a few small other corps; many others don¦t even engage if they outnumber you 3:1.
kind regards, Skel
ps: I appreciate the change to local chat; now you won¦t be an idiot if you don¦t add 5000+ enemies to your adress book(I personaly only got the 200 most important enemies in there, but many others add a lot more so they always immediately know how many hostiles there are in system).
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Lygos
ISS Navy Task Force
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Posted - 2006.11.03 05:20:00 -
[72]
I'll go through this point by point:
1)Local allows for more sociability.
-Not so. In fact, local provides the possibility of safely operating solo almost all the time, which makes mostly self-sufficient players remain self-sufficient. Without local, people will more habitually group up. Blobbing will be for intentional, pre-planned pvp, while ad hoc pvp will more commonly face smaller groups, albeit with the aggressors usually being the larger group. (Hey nothing's perfect, but then again we have a corporate universe, and that's enough to justify a few broken eggs.)
2)Local helps us play the game.
-Nope, everytime local has lit up, I have always, invariably departed "the game" as it were. I know without a doubt that a defensive squad takes time to assemble. Without local, I know I would be more willing to be immersed in the game, and would accept ganks. A gank that is happening is far more palatable than the anticipation of being ganked.
3)People will be clicking the scanner every few seconds.
-Easily remedied. Make scanner results take 15 seconds minimum. Nerf, or highly modulate the power of the scanner. Make activating the warp drive disable the scanner for a full 30 seconds. Advantage: defender.
4)The aggressor will ALWAYS have the advantage without local.
-Not true. Quite easily, defenders may have pre-ganged friends all the time (see point #1) that are more than 14au (or whatever new system is) out, or in the next system. Hostiles attack, and then, friendlies pile on to bait.
-Also, the more a pirate or hostile warps around spotting targets, the more people will spot him. Thus, many attackers will opt for the cross your fingers and jump to belt approach.
5)Alliances win.
-Nope. Intel networks are hardly flawless and people are logging in all the time missing stuff that's just been said. Also, it will be entirely possible to get past npcer/scouts on the peripheries of alliances and get to the mining operations or wait for haulers or whatever, even without cloaks. Personally though, I would be so much happier to just close local, and only hear the background chatter of alliance, the scrolling reports, the rssfeed of the killboard, and the solar wind pouring past my hull. I wanna feel the paranoia, feel like I've got something to lose again, feel even the illusion of sovereignty over everything within sight for once.
Very simply, I want to play in my ship. In Space. I don't want to play in local itself anymore. Right now the game of 'LocaL' is bigger than 'EVE.'
A lack of local would not be a flaw-free game overnight. Quite a few mechanics would be very powerful without local, particularly cloaking. There is no reason to believe these cannot be changed, or that new systems can be introduced to hamper them.
I am 10% griefer, 15% carebear, 17% RPer, 85% lazy, 10% mathematically illiterate and I unequivocably support the exorcism of local.
---
Private Investment should preceed Public Investment |
Skeltek
Caldari
Asgard Schiffswerften
Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.11.03 07:08:00 -
[73]
Edited by: Skeltek on 03/11/2006 07:13:23
I didn¦t want to write this again, so I copied and pasted it to this more important thread; it was the answer to some other guy in another thread that claimed that if I wanted PvP, I could always(like him) kill noobs or gank carebears that were uncautious and I think I had the relevant point desribed pretty good there:
Quote:
sorry, I dislike gangking carebears. PvP is not focused for me on killing the uncautious and unexperienced. And btw: It is a real pain to see so called "PvPers" camp a gate or roam around killing easy prey while it¦s sufficient for them to have a ceptor-scout not to have to engage real enemies.
In math it¦s called "R"elation:
Noobs R Noobs |R:= can kill; ¼ :=negation sign
Pros R Noobs
Noobs ¼R Pros
Pros ¼R Pros
Any PvP-Pro or pirate can roam around and kill any uncautious noob he wants, while not having to engage his equaly skilled adversarys if he doesn¦t want. Sorry dude, but the game is not only about killing the weaker for me; I want those so called "PvPers" also to be attack-/trapable. PvP shouldn¦t be focused on only being able to kill stuff that is unexperienced or unable to keep an eye on local/have a scout.
Local chat just makes it easy to find your noob-prey and get away unharmed; while PvPers looking for equaly skilled opponents cannot get anyone to engage at all.
edit: You couldn¦t any more mine alone/macromine, you would have to always have one person keeping an eye on the gate or use scanner yourself and could still keep an eye on the "invisible local chat"¦s total number of players. The agressors would still have to search their prey giving the defender enough time to check who just joined local. As an agressor, you will not know wether the others in local are hostile or friendly.
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