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Arch Aggelos
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Posted - 2003.11.05 10:00:00 -
[31]
 Quote:
23 jps out?
There is a problem with the baby roids, yes.
There's megacyte out there, though. And lots of it :)
Ok, yes... I admit, we usually tried to keep within 10 or 12 jumps of "home" but all the bistot within that radius was locked in those little baby roids.
So maybe I'm just lazy, but I'd like to think that obtaining a mineral essential to much of the manufacturing in EVE shouldn't requier a 5 man bucket line to keep 2 miners from piling up ore. But hey, that's just me! ;)
The bistot is out there, but getting it is more borring than running agent missions...
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Arch Aggelos
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Posted - 2003.11.05 10:01:00 -
[32]
Quote:
Battleship AFk Mining?? Pann & hellmar what are you smoking? you can't battleship afk mine it takes about 1-2 min to fill up your hold with ore is 1-2 min considered afk mining ? do you guys even play the game at all cause if you did you would know that there is no such thing as afk mining in a bs.
Don't forget the script-kiddies! I know they're illegal, but people still run them...
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2003.11.05 10:18:00 -
[33]
Quote:
The bistot is out there, but getting it is more borring than running agent missions...
Didn't know that was possible o.o
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Supersonix
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Posted - 2003.11.05 10:22:00 -
[34]
Quote:
Semi-afk, eg, not really paying attention to the screen, rather dragging and dropping ore every 2 mins
Same thing with jumping. Jump, warp, activate ab's/mwd, jump and so on.
What could stop battleships from mining would be a new slot. A industrial turret hardpoint. Only for mining lasers and maybe some other tractor beam thingy  . You get the idea...
Support the Alternative market proposition. Clicky clicky. |
Jake Pliskin
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Posted - 2003.11.05 11:11:00 -
[35]
a good CSM generally.
Apart from one issue.
ummm afk bs mining in >0.5 systems?
*cough*
as people have pointed out already.
and makes me wonder if the devs do actually play the game, please do find the time to play the game from time to time.
don't you mean afk indy mining in safe systems
the indy ship with it's large cargo hold, especially if it's fitted with high capacity cargo expanders, can chug away with it's single mining laser for 2 to 3 hours before the cargo hold is full.
afk bs mining = bs cargo hold full within 60 seconds or thereabouts
any other type of bs mining in safe systems involve shuffling the ore into containers, that requires the person to interact, hence NOT afk
if we are talking about afk macro mining here, well then i thought that was a bannable offense
Cheers |
Hellmar
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Posted - 2003.11.05 11:27:00 -
[36]
Arch Aggelos When you and your corp go to 0.0 to mine Bistot and Crockite, you are usually mining for you own production, right? and much of your produce goes directly to members, so you corp is rather self sufficient, a rather closed economy system, apart from mineral sale to NPCs for isk? I am just guessing here that this applies to you corp. (haven’t checked the DB) but this is true for a lot of corporations.
Currently there is little division of labour between corps as so much of the player base is just mining to sell NPCs for isk, which they then use to buy from NPCs.
This we want to change with Techlevel II items only coming from players and wear and tear helping with some of them exiting the system.
This will cause demand to rise and stay more constant as it isn't just a question too fill the appetite of the playerbase for Techlevel II, they will come back for more, due to loosing some of the items to wear and tear. Combat equipment has been exiting somewhat through PvP but mining equipment just doesn’t exit.
I agree with you about the Miner II crash not being attributed to one thing, at the end of the day if there are more than 3 suppliers, they will drop their price to what they consider to be the isk they value their time spent on manufacturing (this might not be true for gasilone in Iceland but in most systems this happens ). Currently the hassle of manufacturing is only getting the Megacyte and Zydrine needed to make the Miner IIs, other minerals are just available in such an abundance though few hours of corp-mining, the process of making the Miner II is rather simple once you get the mins.
This is one of the things that we plan to change with the techlevel II manufacturing process, which is more hierarchical (requiring not only minerals but also other items and commodities, making room for smaller corps supplying components). It also has a longer skill tree to be able to use the tools required to make techlevel II items.
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MOOstradamus
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Posted - 2003.11.05 11:28:00 -
[37]
/me Overnight AFK Bship mine's all the time
So just because many of you guys don't know how to do something doesn't mean someone else doesn't ... 
MOOrovingian "Following & supporting EVE (since Jan 2001) is like wiping your arse with sandpaper."
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Pirindolo
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Posted - 2003.11.05 11:30:00 -
[38]
Quote:
Where's Jash?
It's enough. I am tired of you personal attacks to him. You are breaking a few forum rules again. Let's see what moderators have to say.
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Kajacoai
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Posted - 2003.11.05 12:11:00 -
[39]
Everyone seems to be missing the point here
then main question has not been answered
WHEN
WHEN
WHEN
and soon isn't an answer
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.11.05 12:17:00 -
[40]
"This is one of the things that we plan to change with the techlevel II manufacturing process, which is more hierarchical (requiring not only minerals but also other items and commodities, making room for smaller corps supplying components). It also has a longer skill tree to be able to use the tools required to make techlevel II items."
... Would it be possible to give us some sort of preview what the post-patch skill tree is going to look like? For those who likes to plan their development ahead and for the *coughs* overly curious ones...
And thank you for taking time to address the concerns raised in the thread ^^
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EvilEric
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Posted - 2003.11.05 12:33:00 -
[41]
This is excelent work Pann & Co. I hope we can see the same level of communication and commitment in the future. I just hope now that you have answered these you don't think you don't have to speak to us for the next month... Also can u update the "updates" section please.?
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Popov
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Posted - 2003.11.05 12:41:00 -
[42]
Hellmar are you trapped in a time warp where you play Eve beta?
NPC's DO NOT buy minerals, they DO NOT sell minerals and they DO NOT sell ships nor have they ever done since the game went live.
*IF* by some chance they do then they buy mega for 4096 isk and zyd for 1024 isk - why would I sell to an NPC for that when I can sell to a player for 12k+?
Yes bistot/Arkanor etc are still out there (in ever dwindling quantities) BUT it's 99% in "protected space" ...... If I go into Stain the SA kill me, Curse the CA kill me, Fountain the FA kill me - some how mine something and mega/m0o get me hauling it back to empire space. Also once this ore is mined it's gone as NOBODY is prepared to sit 30 jumps from a station in hostile space mining monster scordite roids to bring back the ore for someone else to mine.
The REAL reason mega and zyd is scarce is simply that your roid respawn DOES NOT WORK and it will remain that way until we finally get DCM or you change the respawn mechanics.
Is it not possible to have the respawn work so that if e.g 10k omber is mined then 10k omber is put back into the system over the respawn period? Surely that makes a lot more sense than it coming back into the system as veld or scord.
I really wish you'd take more notice of the players who actually play the game every day, they are pointing out these problems because they KNOW that they are problems (and most of the CSM questions are endorsed by the majority of the player community) Some of the answers given are incredibly inacurate for 90% of the community, I really suggest you CCP peeps quit Techell (or whatever) and get out there in the REAL universe with the freelancers and small corps to gain an understanding of the problems/hardships faced by most people out there.
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The Machman
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Posted - 2003.11.05 12:44:00 -
[43]
This Battleship AFK mining doesnt make sense to me.
Yes it is easy to make money this way with little effort (and I know by AFK they mean little attention to keyboard ).
However is this really the reason for shortage in mega or Zyd ?
We have been 15 jumps into 0.0 space, which I know isnt a lot but have never seen any Bisot.
I really dont think that stopping people making money in Empire space will make them go into 0.0 as it will turn into a bloodbath.
Ye it will make mining more exciting but I think its the wrong approach.
Instead of making it harder to make money in 0.0 - make it realistic to be able to make more in 0.0 !
You can only mine for mega where you find it and at them moment if you manage to then you will probably find some mega corp using it for its own purposes!
If I am unable to make money in a peaceful area I reckon I will get pretty bored.
(PS I am not a carebear, I like the idea of combat but you need to have a variation of money making methods!)
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Faxon
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Posted - 2003.11.05 12:45:00 -
[44]
Quote:
NPC's DO NOT buy minerals, they ever done since the game went live..
Yes they do, I sell to NPC's all the time ???
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Jonah
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Posted - 2003.11.05 12:52:00 -
[45]
The meg shortage isnt being caused by people afk mining, thats ridiculous. Perhaps if you didnt risk getting caught in lag death exploits at jump in points then people would get out there more. Ive spent plenty of time mining bist but since losing my BS to some exploiters Im more cautious. Before its said, Im NOT against pirates, Ive lost ships to them plenty of times, I took a chance and they got me or they used skill to catch me and I cloned my way home. What Im against is people using an exploit to kill you while you are immobile and defenceless and then CCP saying there is nothng they can do about it. Now if they were to address things like this and help open 0.0 space up THEN the Meg shortage would ease, but no, lets not upset the exploiters lets pick on the quiet people sat in a safe roid field minding their own business.
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Yiin
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Posted - 2003.11.05 12:53:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Yiin on 05/11/2003 12:54:27
Quote:
... Would it be possible to give us some sort of preview what the post-patch skill tree is going to look like? For those who likes to plan their development ahead and for the *coughs* overly curious ones...
Try this link
That should give you some idea of whats coming
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MOOstradamus
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Posted - 2003.11.05 12:57:00 -
[47]
Edited by: MOOstradamus on 05/11/2003 12:58:23
Quote:
NPC's DO NOT buy minerals, etc ...
Now that's funny !!
Popov:
MOOrovingian "Following & supporting EVE (since Jan 2001) is like wiping your arse with sandpaper."
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Sinsemillia
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Posted - 2003.11.05 12:59:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Sinsemillia on 05/11/2003 13:06:31
Dev1, How do we fix the roid regrowth problem?
Dev2, What problem? I was not aware of this...
Dev1, Roids are not growing correctly, which is leading to baby roids of the good stuff and scordite/velderspar planets.
Dev2, Hmm lets just nerf mining.
Dev1, How do we stop afk Indy/macro mining?
Dev2, That sounds too complicated, lets just nerf mining.
Dev1, Many customers are complaining about the speed at which content being added to the game and being forced to wait months for stuff which was promised at release.
Dev2, Thats easy, lets just make training time take longer and isk harder to get, this will slow down the game even more and give us much more time to add content to the game.
Anyone see a pattern here?
"There is going to be a big shake-up soon in regard to resource plundering in Empire space (i.e. battleship mining.) Several groups with in the empires are not happy with the current situation, where groups unaffiliated with them park their city-sized ore vacuumers in their belts, plundering resources with no tribute to the resource holders."
Ok so your trying to hide the mining nerf by roleplaying.... Thats funny, ive never seen a npc mining crew mining for themselfs. Miners provide a service, they mine ore and sell it to the npc market, surely the "tribute to the resource holders" is the corparations "tax" built into the market prices and the fact you need a certain status with the corparation to sell goods/ore to them? Oh yea forgot, something else that is not in the game yet. Another point, why would the mightly Ammar/Gallente based their empires in area's of space containing no mega/zyd leaving all the rare ores in the hands of the pirates?
So your trying to force the hardcore miners out of noob space so the noobs have something to mine? Have you even seen the stats for the number of people playing? It dosn't look like there is that many noobs coming to the game. With the borked roid growth after a month or so they noobs still wont be able to mine. Why? becuase the scordite/Veld will be so huge that they wont even be able to warp to the belts.
If you really want BS miners to take the risk of mining in low sector space fix the jumpin point lag ganking thats going on. Why should we risk having out ships destroyed before the client has even loaded? The map is inaccurate before anyone goes on about using that. Insurance, yea thats all well and good but hardly covers rare mods/implants. Its all well and good saying miners should have to take a isk/reward style of play. Currently jumping into a camped system is not a risk, its suicide.
What would you say the current proportion of miners in EVE is? Lets assume 75% of the players in EVE are miners. Mining bist and crok in deep space requires 4-5 haulers per miner plus a round trip of 1-2hours for the Indy pilot. Why should people who have decided to specialise in mining be forced to become full time Indy poilots? Bring out mobile refineries as promised months ago and im sure the number of deep mining in deep space will go up dramitcally.
Its sad, the more i read reports from the devs the more it becomes apparent they know very little about how their game works in the EVE world. Why not just be honest about it? If you want to achieve anything in EVE you have to sucome to the tedius bordem that is known as agent missions. The talk of "fixing" the npc factions so that you cant dock/use station facilities is crazy with the lack of player owned stations. Are you trying to kill all the big alliances? Just think, instead of a 20-30 round trip to haul bistot many people will have to travel stupid distances just to be able to find a station to dock at.
Please remove your head from your ***, actually comincate with the players and listern to what they are asking, instead of blindly nerfing the game instead of addressing the real issues.
** FIlter didnt work, editing it myself  |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.11.05 13:02:00 -
[49]
"Try this link
That should give you some idea of whats coming"
Thank you, i know that one ;D but that's data from the current official game build... and the Chaos version is nearly 50 builds ahead now, so i was thinking maybe there's more skills and stuff available now (e.g. not just adv.small turret skills in the gunnery branch) and such more complete skill tree could be helpful o.O;
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2003.11.05 13:08:00 -
[50]
Quote:
Are you trying to kill all the big alliances? Just think, instead of a 20-30 round trip to haul bistot many people will have to travel stupid distances just to be able to find a station to dock at.
So what? People not in those alliances have to travel the stupid distance as is to sneak by them, as should the alliances be forced to do can they not handle the sovereign forces they besiege. 
Convert Stations
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Allwyn Kerr
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Posted - 2003.11.05 13:20:00 -
[51]
The BS mining production nearly all being concentrated in high sec space mining low value minerals has a number of shaping factors.
The ones you mention I'm sure influence it.
They pale into insignificance next to the one totally unmentioned tho.
The PC rats blockading the way. How many mining sessions would a BS miner have to go out and comeback thro sucessfully for the ore gained just to pay for the time when a blockade sucessfully destroys his BS?
How keen is he to mine for hours for the fun and profit of a bunch of rats?
They don't tax passersby anymore adding risky interest to the game.. they attack instantly kill and pod, you try and establish a negotiation - all you get is verbal abuse and sneering. They need your frozen corpse to win their corp's "who can gather the most corpsicles competition".
End result - podded.. ship lost.. implants lost.. mocked and abused with much mirth by the ones who did it..
Then you take another look at the balance sheet and screw mining in low sec. You'd have to make scordite mining lose money to make them go out there.
The real question is what is making so many people (I'd venture full and part-time miners are the biggest population block by far)downgrade their appetite for what the game of eve can offer to dragging and dropping the same icon over and over again whilst watching TV/chatting on icq to provide themselves with a measure of entertainment?
The rats have a total stranglehold here, they have sucked the joy out of so many folks gameplay that a whole fundamental pillar of the game has atrophied. That is your story.. that should be your question..
I don't say there shouldn't be pirates ..there should. But in real situations they never could become the overpowering factor.. or else the trade route dried up and they'd killed their host. Here that has happened but because it's just a simulation the pirates are still here hovering over the corpse and hoping/complaining instead of starving to death or getting a job.
Taking everything, killing all the crew and destroying all the shipping is ridiculously unprofessional piracy.. it ends the traffic.. simple as that. And low and behold it has.
Having realised it's happened go further and ask yourselves why the biggest block of players have regretfully virtually relinquished all the richness and possibility Eve might offer them as a recreation in favour of dragging and dropping an icon whilst watching TV. Is it really because the cash rewards are so spectacular and their greed is so overwhelming?? Are they now fabulously wealthy?? glutted with isk.. rich beyond the dreams of avarice??
God knows they'd have to be if it was the lure of scordite proceeds that persuaded them to downgrade their eveplay to pure auto-drudgery.
I mine for most of my gametime in order to finance the area of eveplay I can really enjoy.. building up our small corp by the small amount of wheeling and dealing, buying and selling, that my mining time isk can support. Drudgery buys me that and the price is worth it.
Huge amount of content and possibility within eve already that could be made accessible again. Piracy could go back to being an exciting plus. Scordite mining production could plummet overnight.
Pirates/pirate corps get together form a council and police yourselves, establish real piracy again. Tax the beast.. dont beat it to death for a moment's sick fun. Add to the excitement of Eve and get back into playing real pirates. Show the rest of us that the moment's sick fun hasn't become the be all and end all and that some of the self-justification you write in flaming miners who raise this is still true.
my thanks for the patience of those who are still reading AK
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Filve Tantiss
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Posted - 2003.11.05 13:21:00 -
[52]
How about getting Spodumain back in the game to solve megacyte issues, i've only seen it in Yulai due to a bug months ago it's nowere to be seen in 0.0 space.
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Argen
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Posted - 2003.11.05 13:34:00 -
[53]
Re: question 2.
My first reaction was "wow.. how clueless". My second, more thought out reaction was "wow.. how unprofessional".
I'm going to say this in the hope that the Dev team can take constructive criticism. There is a big problem in the game reguarding mining. The problem reguarding bistot is well documented (read your boards or those of EVE-I). As other people have said it has absolutely nothing to do with AFK mining. My criticism is this: the problem is with the design. Whoever came up with the ore distribution process made a design error. If anything what is happening in the gameworld is proof of that. For you to give an answer that is not only unhelpful but totaly irrelevant shows you do not understand the situation. You did not bother to find out the details of the problem and instead gave an answer that has nothing to do with reality. This is not meant to be an insult but you need to take greater pride in your work. This product is riding on the qualities of its launch and the hopes of its users. I have observed a decline in the system during the past few months. Issues that worsen with time due to design flaws (such as mining). It occurs to me that perhaps those working on the code don't understand it. Perhaps there was a turnover at CCP and the original game creators have moved on. How else can we explain such poor maintenance to such a good game? If this is not the case then you must have lost interest in your work.
This is constructive criticism. The quality of the product has been steadily declining. I hope you can shape up and return to a better work ethic. |
Sinsemillia
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Posted - 2003.11.05 13:37:00 -
[54]
Quote:
So what? People not in those alliances have to travel the stupid distance as is to sneak by them, as should the alliances be forced to do can they not handle the sovereign forces they besiege.
Im refering to the fact that when the npc pirate factions relate to your ability to dock in 0.0 space. Overnight Venal members can no longer dock in venal, foutain members in foutain and so on.
Whats the point in claiming a region of space you cant even use a station in? |
piij
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Posted - 2003.11.05 13:43:00 -
[55]
Quote:
Quote:
So what? People not in those alliances have to travel the stupid distance as is to sneak by them, as should the alliances be forced to do can they not handle the sovereign forces they besiege.
Im refering to the fact that when the npc pirate factions relate to your ability to dock in 0.0 space. Overnight Venal members can no longer dock in venal, foutain members in foutain and so on.
Whats the point in claiming a region of space you cant even use a station in?
Claiming a system doesnt sound like 'hey lets kill everyone that comes or goes, and lets use their facilities, i'm sure they'll let us.'
Claiming a system means having your own facilities (Tech3 release?) - something that wont happen yet.
- Care to watch moo dance?
p.i.i.j |
Ace Merrill
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Posted - 2003.11.05 13:45:00 -
[56]
Ok, let me get this straight.
I'm in a small corp, we can't mine in 0.0 because of the npcs and worse, the camping pks who live at the 0.0/empire border (we're poor, cruisers can't mine AND defend themselves against battleships).
If we do, we're lucky to get a dozen units of dark ochre per rock and maybe only 6 rocks in a belt because they don't grow properly (along with anything bigger than omber & kernite).
All of this means to earn money we're forced to mine kernite. (There's no money in production as the market is DEAD for everything, even miner 2s are plummeting).
And now CCP want to make it harder for us to mine the kernite in Empire Space? 
This leaves us 2 choices as I can see - merge with a bigger corp or quit. Our corp is leaning towards the latter already due to the boredum of mining kernite and still not having enough money.
We're being driven out of the game because it's broken in too many places (market and rock growth primarily, but also because there's 17 billion battleships looking to whoop our asses if we try and enter 0.0) and CCP decide to NERF us?????
--
Britannia Futures
The future's bright, the future's Britannia. |
Bic Pentameter
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Posted - 2003.11.05 13:47:00 -
[57]
i think that jonah has stated pretty clearly that piracy has a place in the game.
i agree whole heartedly with that statement, pirates belong in the game.
the problem is the exploiters that seem to have been able to function without fear of retribution.
please explain why many exploiters are not banned.
some MAY have been banned, but too many are treated like they just CAN NOT be removed.
i question WHY they can not be removed.
WHY they have not been removed.
i don't like to ask the nesxt questions because i love this game, and am very pleased that there are many talented people working very hard to keep it going.
/rant
but something about the managment of things is seriously WRONG when some (not all) exploiters are allowed to continue to disrupt the game.
are these exploiters DEVs themselves?
are these exploiters CCP staff?
are these exploiters the children of CCP staff?
are these exploiters lovers\husbands\wives\other types of relatives of important people involved in the RL operations of EVE?
are these exploiters large investers in some needed aspect of running the game in RL and so CAN NOT be removed?
are these exploiters some other type of "special proteced staus people" and THAT is why they can not be banned/removed?
please explain why these exploiters are not dealt with, so that these questions will not need to be asked, let alone answered.
/-rant
now that's a question that will probebly never be asked in one of these CSM meetings.
Quote:
The meg shortage isnt being caused by people afk mining, thats ridiculous. Perhaps if you didnt risk getting caught in lag death exploits at jump in points then people would get out there more. Ive spent plenty of time mining bist but since losing my BS to some exploiters Im more cautious. Before its said, Im NOT against pirates, Ive lost ships to them plenty of times, I took a chance and they got me or they used skill to catch me and I cloned my way home. What Im against is people using an exploit to kill you while you are immobile and defenceless and then CCP saying there is nothng they can do about it. Now if they were to address things like this and help open 0.0 space up THEN the Meg shortage would ease, but no, lets not upset the exploiters lets pick on the quiet people sat in a safe roid field minding their own business.
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Serge
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Posted - 2003.11.05 13:53:00 -
[58]
Thanks for the answeres and kudos to some very intersting things to come for us players
Not your opinion concerning afk mining in empire space.
Yet still no info about how and when you ppl from CCP will deal with the horrible jump-in lag and the ever-growing groups of player rats homing these?
This issue is killing the entire PvP!
Come and go to one of the 0.4 sec systems, bring some friends, deploy your drones and watch your prey warpŻng in. ITs a slaughter! they never have any chance to counter this!! UNBALANCED, totally unbalanced.
Urgent need to work on this!!!!
***********************************************
... "we suddenly have a good 2 dozen Chicken Littles running about proclaiming tha |
Popov
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Posted - 2003.11.05 13:54:00 -
[59]
Quote:
NPC's DO NOT buy minerals, etc ...
Oops seems I might have been a little hasty on that one (it was early and I'd just blown my stack after , all I ever see are buy/sell orders from players. Pretty sure my assertions about the prices offered by the npc's are correct though.
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Tease
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Posted - 2003.11.05 14:00:00 -
[60]
Quote:
Hellmar: We havenĘt done any changes here; I would expect this to be a change in your camera setting. The 2-button/drag combos can be a bit tricky. We are also planning to add camera presets to help people track the various actions going on. Videos from the recent championship battles show some of these features in action.
Polaris in the Help channel said that the ship sizes were changed to help with lag about a month ago. Does Hellmar even play this game?
-----------------------------------------
[2003.12.17 06:35:20] Corwin > Orvolle is .4? Doesn't that mean that it's
less than .5 ? and isn't .5 what starts the danger level?
[2003.12.30 07:15:50] Corwin > Tech 2, IE expanded cargo holds I, MIning
lasers 2, etc.... TL2 is being released all around you
[2003.12.30 07:21:20] Corwin > tech 2 is released to players. Some players
are busy researching the BPs before building stuff. Others are sitting on
the BPs making copies to make money off of them that way |
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