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Ryaekk Dakalsai
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Posted - 2003.11.05 14:10:00 -
[61]
Well how interesting a debate this has sparked, I'm glad my 2 questions (2,3) seem to have dragged the issues out into the open.... the devs have no idea how the game is being played.
You want to nerf BS mining? It is such a problem, cry cry cry...... The only way I can keep up with demand for low end minerals is to mine in BS and I've known no one who can afk mine in a BS. Question 2 wasnt answered in the slightest, it was brushed aside and no consideration was given to the whole question.
You never get told by your teachers that you should you should read and understand the question before answering, dont answer the question you think is there. The mega part was the tiniest most insignificant part of my question, Hellmar COMPLETELY avoided any other part of the Q to just try and slam something they are gonna try to nerf.
Hellmar if you nerf BS mining without some other solution you'll kill everything, I have orders for 50mil trit at a time, I could possibly sell 250m of trit per week if....
a) There where dedicated mining ships with mining bonuses to improve the amount of ore mined even more. Gee no BS mining, didnt think of that one at the design stage......
b) Larger specialised haulers (gee wasnt that question 3 you avoided??) to make the movement of this kind of volume economically viable. I dont see Enron asking bike couriers to move barrels of oil around, do you?????
c) Dont even make me laugh about strip mining, currently the demand for minerals outstrips the supply and you are whining about non existent afk mining? Get rid of NPC demand, simple solution.. The market for minerals is dead because ppl can sell mins to NPC's easier than hauling it back into empire space where it is needed.
(P.S good job on finally figuring out after 3 years what the float type is and that it may have semblance of use in a trading game.)
So from 1 question you avoided and 1 suggestion that you bash for something that I SPECIFICALLY addressed which was afk mining yet you still wanna nerf mining? Are you smoking something up there?
I mine low end (0.3 system btw) for all the reasons stated, PC Pirates podding you, Alliances locking down regions, the BROKEN roid spawn etc etc etc. The list goes on Hellmar, instead of looking at the beta copy, come ask me how I have to run my in game business dedicated to mining and something I do day in day out to succeed in this game THEN start thinking what you are gonna swing the nerf bat at.
--------------------------------------------
Ryaekk K. Dakalsai
Royal Industrial Department President
Mining Operations Head |
Cell Satimo
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Posted - 2003.11.05 14:17:00 -
[62]
It's interesting to note that to actually produce the items you'll also need industry level V and some hardware. The hardware has a base price of about 6m for both research and manufacturing on any of the lines.
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Join eve-webring.com to promote your site. |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.11.05 14:21:00 -
[63]
"The only way I can keep up with demand for low end minerals is to mine in BS (..)"
... You mean, the demand exceeds the supply so much you can't keep up with it?
Could swear there's some very obvious and natural way for the market to rectify that... o.O
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Tease
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Posted - 2003.11.05 14:30:00 -
[64]
 Quote:
This will force the afk battleship miners out of Empire space and into 0.0, bringing in a lot more mecacyte and zydrine.
just curious, but how many bistot and ark roids are there in Jovian 0.0 space? How large are they due to the weird respawn/growth rate? If they exist, are they the reason why Polaris peeps always say "There's plenty of Mega in 0.0 space!! you just aren't looking!!!"
-----------------------------------------
[2003.12.17 06:35:20] Corwin > Orvolle is .4? Doesn't that mean that it's
less than .5 ? and isn't .5 what starts the danger level?
[2003.12.30 07:15:50] Corwin > Tech 2, IE expanded cargo holds I, MIning
lasers 2, etc.... TL2 is being released all around you
[2003.12.30 07:21:20] Corwin > tech 2 is released to players. Some players
are busy researching the BPs before building stuff. Others are sitting on
the BPs making copies to make money off of them that way |
Tease
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Posted - 2003.11.05 14:32:00 -
[65]
Quote:
Player Support and New Player Support branches are the only ones who are able to schmooze around in the newbie systems, and some of them do.
I've never seen one.. This is the first I've ever heard of them. Has anyone else ever seen them?
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[2003.12.17 06:35:20] Corwin > Orvolle is .4? Doesn't that mean that it's
less than .5 ? and isn't .5 what starts the danger level?
[2003.12.30 07:15:50] Corwin > Tech 2, IE expanded cargo holds I, MIning
lasers 2, etc.... TL2 is being released all around you
[2003.12.30 07:21:20] Corwin > tech 2 is released to players. Some players
are busy researching the BPs before building stuff. Others are sitting on
the BPs making copies to make money off of them that way |
Discorporation
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Posted - 2003.11.05 14:33:00 -
[66]
Quote:
just curious, but how many bistot and ark roids are there in Jovian 0.0 space? How large are they due to the weird respawn/growth rate? If they exist, are they the reason why Polaris peeps always say "There's plenty of Mega in 0.0 space!! you just aren't looking!!!"
None. Last reports on Jove Space say that the roid belts there are empty. Just like freshly mined 1.0 belts :)
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Tease
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Posted - 2003.11.05 14:34:00 -
[67]
Quote:
12.At the moment large hybrid guns are the most useless guns in the game, they have bad tracking and horrible damage. Do you have any intention of fixing this?
Hellmar: This will be addressed in the Tech Level 2 release
Tech lvl 1 large Hydrid guns will be addressed? Or Tech lvl 2 large hydrids will be added? If it's the latter, then you're just saying that large hybrid guns will always be inferior to all other large turrets.
-----------------------------------------
[2003.12.17 06:35:20] Corwin > Orvolle is .4? Doesn't that mean that it's
less than .5 ? and isn't .5 what starts the danger level?
[2003.12.30 07:15:50] Corwin > Tech 2, IE expanded cargo holds I, MIning
lasers 2, etc.... TL2 is being released all around you
[2003.12.30 07:21:20] Corwin > tech 2 is released to players. Some players
are busy researching the BPs before building stuff. Others are sitting on
the BPs making copies to make money off of them that way |
Lungorthin
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Posted - 2003.11.05 14:42:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Lungorthin on 05/11/2003 14:43:31
Dear Hellmar
I thank you for developing EVE, a game with much "potential".
As a hard-core player myself I have to concur with statements made by Arch Aggelos, Popov and others.
1. The afk mining has absolutely nothing to do with megacyte shortage. If you consider afk mining a "problem" then feel free to address that issue, but it is NOT the solution to megacyte shortage. Beware of the consequences of "fixing" this. My educated guess is that 1/3 of the current players -who are not and donĘt want to be affiliated to any corp or group to do group mining- would quit the game.
2. Yes there is -still- lots of bistot 17+ jumps away from bases. BUT once it is mined it is gone for good for it does not respawn properly.
Lets assume your theory is right.
You manage to force ppl to go out to 0.0 space to mine bistot 15 to 25 jumps away from bases.
After a month or less an even bigger problem will occur. No bistot will be available anywhere. Only ridiculous baby bistot roids. And NOBODY will mine *and waste* the commons 20+ jumps away from bases to make Bistot respawn better.
Unless you are a disciple of the Marquis de Sade or Machiavello it is NO FUN to jump 1 hour back and forth in an industrial ship to haul 400~600 bistot units. (Wow how exciting my gaming day was today... I hauled the whole day only 2 loads of bistot before my brain went numb)
Correct me if I am wrong: But shouldn't online GAMING be an issue of having FUN?
(*Attention the preceding statement was an IMPORTANT statement*)
Allow me to repeat the point that all players have repeated over and over again: The bistot is NOT RESPAWNING properly!
If you assume anything different would make me assume that you are blind to game realities.
To close I would like to quote The Machman: "Instead of making it harder to make money in 0.0 - make it realistic to be able to make more in 0.0 !"
Lungorthin
If you want peace... prepare for war. |
Randuin MaraL
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Posted - 2003.11.05 14:45:00 -
[69]
Quote:
... that play-style that requires cognitive participation
I love that one, all afk-miners should read this article! Of course they do never see it ... being afk all the time 
____________________________________________________
Never be in the company of anyone with whom you would not want to die.
MEDUSA veteran, Khumaak Award winner |
Ryaekk Dakalsai
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Posted - 2003.11.05 14:45:00 -
[70]
It would if we got the floating point into the market 
The simple fact is that suppliers with megacyte are still building and supplying BS. That market is still churning over and to produce BS you need a lot of low end mins, I can supply very large quantities of minerals by mining in BS and my team having maxed mining skills. We mine with protection and need a lot of haulers but I can provide a pretty unique service, I can provide very large quantities of minerals to builders on demand, not 1 mil, not 10 mil but a recent order nearly topped 50mil in trit.
Now I am very proud of being able to do this and I specialise in this market, I am what was envisioned I believe, not trying my hand at everything but specialising in a niche. Now I ask for something like Larger Haulers (Q3) and get told they are gonna nerf large scale mining!!! Gee thx for killing off business there........
One thing that should be in is Mobile Refineries, in fact they should have been in since day 1, we mine in 0.3 but its still Empire space because i aint gonna spend time hauling 20+ jumps to get stuff into empire space.
Deliver what you promised and we'll move out of Empire space, nerf mining and we'll move out of the game.
--------------------------------------------
Ryaekk K. Dakalsai
Royal Industrial Department President
Mining Operations Head |
Bad Harlequin
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Posted - 2003.11.05 14:53:00 -
[71]
Quote:
/me Overnight AFK Bship mine's all the time
smiley of borg is teh win.
You are in a maze of twisty little asteroids, all alike. |
Mysticaa
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Posted - 2003.11.05 14:53:00 -
[72]
Pann,
Can you address how tech 2 will be deployed? nothing specific but will we have another miner 2 deployment nightmare or will CCP be using some other mechanism for deploying tech 2? None of the CSM representatives seem to want to ask my question so I will ask it instead.
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Namarus
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Posted - 2003.11.05 14:54:00 -
[73]
Quote:
Well how interesting a debate this has sparked, I'm glad my 2 questions (2,3) seem to have dragged the issues out into the open.... the devs have no idea how the game is being played.
I agree with you 100%
Quote:
Question 2 wasnt answered in the slightest, it was brushed aside and no consideration was given to the whole question.
I am glad I wasn't the only one to notice this.
Quote:
Hellmar COMPLETELY avoided any other part of the Q to just try and slam something they are gonna try to nerf.
Indeed.
Quote:
Hellmar if you nerf BS mining without some other solution you'll kill everything, I have orders for 50mil trit at a time, I could possibly sell 250m of trit per week if....
I would like to see what their suggested changes are going to be for this. I am a bit confused on how someone AFK mines with a Battleship. Do you mean MACRO mining? If that is what you mean, maybe you should spell it out.
Quote:
b) Larger specialised haulers (gee wasnt that question 3 you avoided??) to make the movement of this kind of volume economically viable. I dont see Enron asking bike couriers to move barrels of oil around, do you?????
When you currently have to make 8-9 jumps from the bistot field to get to a station I think you can see why a larger hauler is needed. Sorry this has absolutely nothing to do about AFK Battleship mining.
Quote:
I mine low end (0.3 system btw) for all the reasons stated, PC Pirates podding you, Alliances locking down regions, the BROKEN roid spawn etc etc etc. The list goes on Hellmar, instead of looking at the beta copy, come ask me how I have to run my in game business dedicated to mining and something I do day in day out to succeed in this game THEN start thinking what you are gonna swing the nerf bat at.
I agree with this. I really do not see why there is much AFK mining in Empire space. Most asteriod fields I vist are full of baby asteriods. You STILL have not fixed asteriod spawning even though Tomb promised this would be fixed shortly.
Nothing to see here .... move along. |
Ryaekk Dakalsai
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Posted - 2003.11.05 15:20:00 -
[74]
Thx for the comments Namarus, there are issues, Empire space IS being stripped and I know its a problem, from week 2 after release BSC made a committment to NEVER strip mine a 0.8+ system and we never have. The problem ppl are facing like myself is that I run a profitable niche service out in 0.3 space and want to supply the builders in Yulai etc with their mins which are not available locally.
WOOHOO lets have some economics here, ppl need something, I can supply.......... Oh crap i cant move 50mil of trit 18 jumps to Yulai..... It would take DAYS!!!
Give me larger haulers.... Courier missions? You are having a laugh Hellmar, I put 5mil of trit on the courier system to go 10 jumps in 5000m3 batches and until I asked a corp mate to do em they werent even touched.
No one touches courier missions for large volumes because they are a waste of time as you travel so slowly. Plus no one puts out courier missions as ppl say that they wont do them without it being 10k isk per jump. WHAT!! lemme work something out for you HELLMAR......
18 * 100 (50mil in 500k barches) * 10k = 18mil ISK
And thats not even with the return trip of 18 jumps. Give us alternatives dont pull the rug out from under our feet.
--------------------------------------------
Ryaekk K. Dakalsai
Royal Industrial Department President
Mining Operations Head |
Luther Pendragon
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Posted - 2003.11.05 15:26:00 -
[75]
Wear and tear, as well as general maintanance was brought up ways before beta. Nice to hear thinking is changing.
The notion of fuel fills the same function as wear and tear as well, making a much more dynamic market, with more used commodity, spread employment opportunities among many. Make those mining lasers require ammo or charges as well!
Theres nothing wrong with AFK mining. Its a playing style of choice. Some people want to hop up and down their chair all the time blasting whatever, some people have to go do the dishes. Sure reward needs to be proportional to risk and difficulty, but its still a legitimate choice of playing style.
Components for manufacturing was also pointed out in beta, I hope some 'trade goods' will be utilized as well.
____________________________________
Taggart wants YOU. Join TTi!
*waves his hand in your face in the jedi way* |
Tanner Mirabel
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Posted - 2003.11.05 15:54:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Tanner Mirabel on 05/11/2003 16:00:38
How on earth did they come up with the idea that stopping afk mining would solve the Megacyte shortage. I think perhaps the devs need to take time out and just TRY to do what they are telling us we should be doing. Get into a ship and head out from Empire space and go find these plentiful bistot roids, mine them and bring the Meg back down. Perhaps after getting killed by lag death exploiters, podded at impassable bottle necks and spending hours looking for roids that arent there they might suddenly realise that afk mining has nothing to do with it.
Maybe they could look at addressing the lag death exploiting
Maybe they could get the bist spawning correctly
Maybe they could add a few extra routes in and out of 0.0 space so the pirates have to WORK at getting people instead of just sitting at the only gate out of a region.
Why not put in an ore (maybe rework Spod) that requires a high amount to refine and provides a very small amount of megacyte. Perhaps for each 600 units refined you get 2 meg as part of the yield, this might put it on par with loot melting. Of course there would have to be a limited supply and in lower security level empire space but it would allow meg to trickle back into the game.
Stopping mining in BS and nerfing afk mining is going to do nothing to change the meg situation, all its going to do is reduce the levels of low end mins, which are required due to large amount of BS building, and alienate a lot of players who mine as a profession.
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Noggy
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Posted - 2003.11.05 16:07:00 -
[77]
Quote:
Edited by: Tanner Mirabel on 05/11/2003 16:00:38
How on earth did they come up with the idea that stopping afk mining would solve the Megacyte shortage. I think perhaps the devs need to take time out and just TRY to do what they are telling us we should be doing. Get into a ship and head out from Empire space and go find these plentiful bistot roids, mine them and bring the Meg back down. Perhaps after getting killed by lag death exploiters, podded at impassable bottle necks and spending hours looking for roids that arent there they might suddenly realise that afk mining has nothing to do with it.
Maybe they could look at addressing the lag death exploiting
Maybe they could get the bist spawning correctly
Maybe they could add a few extra routes in and out of 0.0 space so the pirates have to WORK at getting people instead of just sitting at the only gate out of a region.
Why not put in an ore (maybe rework Spod) that requires a high amount to refine and provides a very small amount of megacyte. Perhaps for each 600 units refined you get 2 meg as part of the yield, this might put it on par with loot melting. Of course there would have to be a limited supply and in lower security level empire space but it would allow meg to trickle back into the game.
Stopping mining in BS and nerfing afk mining is going to do nothing to change the meg situation, all its going to do is reduce the levels of low end mins, which are required due to large amount of BS building, and alienate a lot of players who mine as a profession.
Well summed up. I totally agree. I find it amazing that the Devs are so blind they cant see the problem here even with people screaming it in their face. AFK mining?? LOL thats hardly an issue.
STOP EXPLOITERS!! Then maybe people would be more willing to go into deeper space.
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Gun Kata
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Posted - 2003.11.05 16:35:00 -
[78]
Thanks CCP for the update - very much needed and appreciated!
If you dont want BS to mine then don't give them the ability to mount mining lasers or use mining drones.
"I have seen everything now."
"Yeah? Have you seen a man eat his own head?" |
Tigersbane
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Posted - 2003.11.05 16:36:00 -
[79]
This is probably one of the most reasoned and thought out threads on this board to date.
There are many good ideas that really should already be in game as well as very reasoned rebuttals of Hellmars ideas to solve the mega shortage.
My only hope is that the Devs actually read this thread and get an idea of how strongly the player base feel about things as they stand now.
Might be a bit of an eye opener.
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Lysithea
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Posted - 2003.11.05 16:37:00 -
[80]
Quote:
Edited by: Tanner Mirabel on 05/11/2003 16:00:38
How on earth did they come up with the idea that stopping afk mining would solve the Megacyte shortage. I think perhaps the devs need to take time out and just TRY to do what they are telling us we should be doing. Get into a ship and head out from Empire space and go find these plentiful bistot roids, mine them and bring the Meg back down. Perhaps after getting killed by lag death exploiters, podded at impassable bottle necks and spending hours looking for roids that arent there they might suddenly realise that afk mining has nothing to do with it.
Maybe they could look at addressing the lag death exploiting
Maybe they could get the bist spawning correctly
Maybe they could add a few extra routes in and out of 0.0 space so the pirates have to WORK at getting people instead of just sitting at the only gate out of a region.
Why not put in an ore (maybe rework Spod) that requires a high amount to refine and provides a very small amount of megacyte. Perhaps for each 600 units refined you get 2 meg as part of the yield, this might put it on par with loot melting. Of course there would have to be a limited supply and in lower security level empire space but it would allow meg to trickle back into the game.
Stopping mining in BS and nerfing afk mining is going to do nothing to change the meg situation, all its going to do is reduce the levels of low end mins, which are required due to large amount of BS building, and alienate a lot of players who mine as a profession.
EXACTLY!!! I see no connection between stopping AFK mining and moving people out to mine bistot and/or arkonor. If you shut down secure space, people will do something else. If PKs can camp jump-in points or otherwise block the route to 0.0 space, people won't go - period.
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McWatt
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Posted - 2003.11.05 16:39:00 -
[81]
Edited by: McWatt on 05/11/2003 16:41:23
k. tech 2 will save it all. great.
so we are back to the csm saying nothing, aren t we?
this is diasspointing, but i ll restrict myself to a few comments.
1. i doubt tech 2 will solve anything. it s scheduled for 2 or 3 weeks, yet major parts have not been for testing on chaos.
* the new mission system seems to be very similar to the old one
* introducing faction standings (finally, you wont see me cheer for something that should have been in from the beginning) will surely cause mostly havoc and pain. i m looking forward to this one.
* and continues marked seeding has been promised to be in game already, or am i wrong?
* advanced production sounds good, but hasn t been tested so far. will it be the end of ridicously low slot prices?
2. i noticed that it makes no difference what you re going to mine during my 2nd or 3rd week in the game. great that the devs realized this months later.
they still don t see the real problem: their own ****** up concord system gave the opportunity to strip mine in high sec without any risk. i fear they ll never understand. sigh.
3. a new concord system. that it should be like this was another early idee with me. it s the only way things will work.
but the concept is completly foreign to Hellmar. he treats it like any other stupid idea someone has come up with. "nice, we consider..."
this is sad.
and well, late and no excuse. but what did i expect?
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Ryaekk Dakalsai
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Posted - 2003.11.05 16:56:00 -
[82]
/me waits for this thread to be locked and then deleted....
Quote:
We donĘt consider someone voicing an opinion, even if itĘs negative, to be trolling, however, we are not going to permit ranting and flaming insults against our game, our team or our players on our boards anymore than any other game company would.
We have put up with late answers, and now we are putting up with answers that dont even address the questions we put to the devs. We have been more than patient and its not like we've come in here and said 'This is crap do better' there have been reasoned arguments and suggestions put to the devs to improve the game how WE the paying customers want the game to be improved. Will we ever get some form of response to this thread or do we get a Soon(tm).
--------------------------------------------
Ryaekk K. Dakalsai
Royal Industrial Department President
Mining Operations Head |
Rinekar
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Posted - 2003.11.05 17:01:00 -
[83]
Edited by: Rinekar on 05/11/2003 17:02:15
As a long time player of this game in beta and since the second day of release I am happy that these changes are being put into place. As a CEO of a small corp. it has been a difficult struggle to maintain an even keel economically with the mega and the zydrine shortage but we have adjusted accordingly. It is great that the factions will soon be changed and you involvement or passage with a certain faction or empire will truly be governed by your standing. One thing I am concerned about is will existing standings towards factions be changed or nullified? I currently have a Jove agent that I was getting perception implants from but that has now changed. I have not done any more missions with the agent only because it was mentioned that this was a bug and they would be removed. I have seen on previous posts that Papa Smurf has said that the "progress" made with this faction and CONCORD may be shifted to another Empire or faction. How will this work and what governs this. My main concern is since I am Intaki (Gallente) and the Jove have a good relationship with the Caldari that my high faction standing will be transferred to the Caldari and severely damage my standing with the Gallente Empire. Is this something that has been decided on or a suitable change is still being formulated. I would also like to voice my satisfaction in the way that new content will be delivered. Having "staged" releases like this is good instead of them being uber drops in far off "controlled" 0.0 space. It is also good that patches are being tested more completely and content is not being added on whim making serious flaws in game. Although I am glad that implants have been added in game even though the release had some flaws. I am looking forward to Tech lvl 2 and what it will bring...
Koensayr Drive Yards [KOEN] Website
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Lentia
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Posted - 2003.11.05 17:18:00 -
[84]
The only place to find mega and bist is in 0.0 non empire space which is currently controlled by the Alliances.
The Crokite is still plentiful but you have to travel a bit (20 jumps into protected space--good luck if your not in the alliance)
The Bist on the other hand is gone.
Gone, gone gone. No excuses, just gone.
There are plently of belts still with 10 baby bist that are 89.7 but it will take you a team of at least 3-4 people 3 hours to get 600 bist. DO you honestly think we're gonna sell it and not keep it for our own production first?
The problem is this, crok and bist are in restricted space, and the bist is really just all gone...
Lentia
Military Officer
http://www.staf.online-guild.com/ |
Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.11.05 17:21:00 -
[85]
Quote:
Where's Jash?
Taking care of my morning business, per usual. So glad to see you're concern 
Quote:
Hellmar: With the Tech Level 2 release, we are fixing the ōlast in, first outö (LIFO) issue and adding fractional support. The biggest part of the issue with acquiring megacyte and zydrine tools and components is because there are few doing it, as cruiser/bs mining in risk-free Empire space is so profitable. With the Tech Level 3 release, we will add manufacturer specific bonuses, where a manufacturer-id will be tracked with each item and manufacturers can research bounces that will affect their products.
The Miner II market plunged because there is no exit for Miner IIĘs. Once they are in, they never leave the system so the demand quickly drains up. We have designs for generic item wear and tear to help with draining modules from the economy, thus increasing demand for manufacturers to supply and also to address the absentee mining. We are doing our best to make sure that wear and tear wonĘt be too much of a hassle.
You have better numbers than I do as you can see the all the markets where I'm only capable of doing so if I take a lot of jumps.
The changes of the LIFO system is excellent news as the system is currently shortchanging people. And turning 'market competition' into day trading, whoever can stay online the longest and continue to update their price to force the sales.
But the highways and blueprint licensing do contribute to market degradation. The highways 'shrink' the universe as it applies to the market, causing several regions to reflect the changes in supply and prices made in a single region. Distance from supply is irrelevant with the distance between most points being reduced to fewer than 20 jumps. The price of megacyte and zydrine in a place like Gehi should be cheaper than the price of megacyte and zydrine found in Pator as it's closer to the supply point. This creates opportunity for traders to take the supply from Gehi to Pator and mark up the price to reflect the time spent travelling and any dangers they encountered. People may not like paying higher prices, but that's not the issue as I see it. The issue as I see it is providing opportunities for other players to do something profitable besides mining the minerals themselves. And slowing market collapse as the shorter distances means fewer suppliers affect the market as a whole.
Blueprint licensing is quickly overtaking the manufacturing market. People view paying 8m isk for a Scorpion blueprint copy and aquiring the minerals themselves as a better deal than paying 48m for the finished product. Given that a bp license requires nothing but time to make while the actual product requires time aquiring the minerals + the cost of the minerals, price for licenses can and have been set below the profit margin of the manufactured item. To the person making the blueprint copies, it's free isk. To the person buying the copies, it's cheaper than an outright purchase. To people manufacturing the items, it's difficult to compete against. You can't pay corp members for their time spent aquiring minerals so the corp can manufacture an item if nobody buys the manufactured item. If the corp can't sell the manufactured item, it can only sell the minerals in order to pay its corp members. And its now a mining corporation, having wasted billions in isk (in my case) on blueprints that have little value. Unless I sell license copies as well, which eliminates the need for a corporation and honestly isn't what I intended to be: a Xerox Machine.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Lentia
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Posted - 2003.11.05 17:23:00 -
[86]
BTW,
I know this to be true, as I am the Director of Mining Operations / Fountain Division for my corp.
The "approaches" the devs have proposed really dont make sense or show they just dont understand the problem to begin with
THE REAL SOLUTION:
1.Let the Bist respawn, watch the megacyte flow.
2. Allow some bist/crok into 0.0 - 0.1 empire space so that small corps not in alliances can have access to it also.
-simple-
Lentia
Military Officer
http://www.staf.online-guild.com/ |
Eldariel
|
Posted - 2003.11.05 17:26:00 -
[87]
Edited by: Eldariel on 05/11/2003 17:27:08
Re the mining problem - have any of you guys out in 0.0 tried "farming" high end ores..
By that I mean strip mining *everything* but the high end ores. If I understand the distribution process and the way CCP has implemented roid growth those baby high end roids should start to grow rather large ...
Your only problem would be protecting them until they were "ripe for picking" 
Nice CSM by the way ...
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Tentimes
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Posted - 2003.11.05 17:50:00 -
[88]
Hellmar,
Either you don't actually play your own game or you are in an almost laughable state of denial.
This BS mining in Empire space is a scapegoat and it seems you are focusing your wroth on it and thinking it's the nexus of what is wrong with the game. Some points for you:
(1) Mega/Zyd shortage has damn all to do with the amount of ppl mining it. I have been mining it exclusively for 3 months and I can tell you catagorically (and as others have stated) that it is due to the roid respawn bug which you conveniantly ignore.
(2) Even with that I can make far more than anyone afk mining in empire space - join a corp in game and see for yourself - you don;t seem to know where the money is.
(3) You dodged the question on content. Where is it and when will it be here? Maybe someone can put that in again for next CSM and you can attempt to answer it truthfully instead of throwing (afk BS mining) pixie dust in the air to confuse ppl.
(4) Please, please, please get a dartboard and put a picture of an afk mining BS on it to throw darts at. It's obviously totally clouding any sense of judegement or reasoning.
You are obviously under pressure - but please TRY and see what's wrong with the game instead of wheeling a scapegoat out, followed by the nerf stick.
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TheZapper
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Posted - 2003.11.05 17:56:00 -
[89]
CCP:
I'm not a regular contributor to the boards.
I've worked too hard stuggling, clawing, my way to a BS. My opinion is the roid respawn issue is the key issue...
But if this "nerf the miners in Battleships in Empire Space" goes too far.. I'm gone. My two paid accounts go with me. I don't know exactly what "too far" is..but I'll know it when I see it, and I feel your strangling the line with your recent updates. Be careful CCP..be very careful.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.11.05 18:01:00 -
[90]
"Hellmar,
Either you don't actually play your own game or you are in an almost laughable state of denial."
... I'd go with option 3: the programmers actually know how the whole system is supposed to work and have the access to all data to verify how it works, while the players can only guess what the world rules are, and base these guesses on the snippets they see personally.
This might cause the programmers to overlook some (relatively) minor problems with the system as long as the majority of the data seems ok... and the players will tend to raise hell as soon as something is different from what they came to believe to be 'natural' state.
Mayhaps would help to ask during next of these CSM session, to have the programmers describe exactly how the ore distribution is supposed to work, so it can be then verified with actual state of things in the game?.. o.O
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