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Benglada Finite Horizon	Posted - 2006.10.28 23:46:00 - [1] As we all know, drone boats generally dont need an abundant amount of high slots. At the moment the myrmidon tanks only as well as the brutix which imo, it should tank a lot better. What im proposing is that two of the myrmidons 8 highslots be changed to low slots, making it a very good tanking battlecruiser. --------------------------- Originally by: Arkanor 0.0 is the Final Frontier. Bring money and friends.
murder one Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.29 00:25:00 - [2] I'd have to agree. Because I said so...
rgreat Gallente OEG	Posted - 2006.10.29 01:22:00 - [3] Edited by: rgreat on 29/10/2006 01:23:25 Agree, Myrmidon dont have enough PG to use all these hgh slots anyway.
Reatu Krentor Minmatar Void Spiders Fate Weavers	Posted - 2006.10.29 01:36:00 - [4] Edited by: Reatu Krentor on 29/10/2006 01:36:29 I'm thinking the intention is to use the 3 extra highs for drone modules, though right now there is only the drone control range one for there. So unless they're releasing drone damage mods, myeah those highs aren't the most usefull. (edit) Assuming of course those drone damage mods would be high-slot modules. I'd rather see a different change. Adding a turret and some more grid(amount somewhere in the region of 100-200 MW) would improve myrmidon. Crystal-Slave, that way? Potential solution to the current Recon cloak and cyno bug
Temo Jick	Posted - 2006.10.29 17:14:00 - [5] Please letÆs not fix it by turning it into a turret boat. There are already plenty of options for people who want to use turrets, and plenty for people who want to use a mix of drones and turrets. CanÆt we have a true Drone ship for a change? Non of this EW or Turret nonsense, just lots of drones and lots of tank.
Old Geeza The Retirement Home	Posted - 2006.10.29 17:26:00 - [6] Edited by: Old Geeza on 29/10/2006 17:26:52 Yes, lets give it a tank comparable to all the other BCs when it has a weapon system that doesn't use a single slot. How about no. In fact, remove that rep bonus (these are supposed to be offensive ships) and give it a 5% hybrid damage bonus instead. _______________________________________ Sign the petition against jump queues!
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.10.29 17:45:00 - [7] Originally by: Temo Jick There are already plenty of options for people who want to use turrets, and plenty for people who want to use a mix of drones and turrets. Dominix and Eos do not represent "plenty of options" to me. --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
Temo Jick	Posted - 2006.10.29 18:14:00 - [8] Originally by: Hllaxiu Originally by: Temo Jick There are already plenty of options for people who want to use turrets, and plenty for people who want to use a mix of drones and turrets. Dominix and Eos do not represent "plenty of options" to me. I find it hard to imagine that you have never herd of the Megathron, Typhoon or Armageddon. All Battleships with 125m3 or more of drone bay. And then of corse in the cruser size we have the Vexor. And the Ishtar. In the the frigate size we have the Ishkur.
Temo Jick	Posted - 2006.10.29 18:31:00 - [9] Edited by: Temo Jick on 29/10/2006 18:31:46 Originally by: Old Geeza Edited by: Old Geeza on 29/10/2006 17:26:52 Yes, lets give it a tank comparable to all the other BCs when it has a weapon system that doesn't use a single slot. How about no. In fact, remove that rep bonus (these are supposed to be offensive ships) and give it a 5% hybrid damage bonus instead. There is no reason what so ever that its tank cant still be ballenced. As it stands you cant realy fit an effective Duel Rep setup with anything bigger then medium irons or Dual 150mms. All you have to do is remove the cpu and powergrid those guns would be using to ensure the tank is not made overly powerfull. Dosnt make any differance to the ship that its weapon system dosnt use cpu slots and powergrid if it just dosnt have those things in the first place does it? So no high slots and non of the cpu and powergrid that would be used to fill the slots that arnt there is no problem. All it needs then is a big enough drone bay to field spares so it wont be renderd impetent when its drones are shot out of the sky.
Blind Man Caldari 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.10.29 19:27:00 - [10] the tier 1 bc are supposed to be better tankers and the tier 2 supposed to be damage dealers It's great flying Amarr, ain't it?

Benglada Finite Horizon	Posted - 2006.10.30 01:51:00 - [11] Blind man, if thats the case, the myrmidon comes nowhere NEAR the brutix in damage... --------------------------- Originally by: Arkanor 0.0 is the Final Frontier. Bring money and friends.
Sadist Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.10.30 02:55:00 - [12] Originally by: Benglada Blind man, if thats the case, the myrmidon comes nowhere NEAR the brutix in damage... QFT. Makes me sad òòòòòòòòòòòò VIP member of the [23] Quote: - Numbers alone do not win a battle - No, but I bet they help.
Nicocat Caldari New Age Solutions	Posted - 2006.10.30 04:36:00 - [13] Whine, whine, whine. Tier 2 BCs are gank, not tank. ******* deal with it. ---------------------------- Please don't try to troll in your signature -Eldo([email protected]) I tried?
Aeaus Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.10.30 04:55:00 - [14] Edited by: Aeaus on 30/10/2006 04:55:26 Originally by: Nicocat Whine, whine, whine. Tier 2 BCs are gank, not tank. ******* deal with it. Whine Whine? Do you realize that the Myr GANK sucks? Last Weeks Signature
James Draekn X.E.N.O.	Posted - 2006.10.30 05:52:00 - [15] Originally by: Old Geeza Yes, lets give it a tank comparable to all the other BCs when it has a weapon system that doesn't use a single slot. How about no. In fact, remove that rep bonus (these are supposed to be offensive ships) and give it a 5% hybrid damage bonus instead. Ok, then lets change missile launchers so that they use cap, or how about projectile turrets. There are multiple systems that use zero cap to fire/launch. Drones just have the distinct disadvantage of being able to be shot down, unlike turrets or launchers. What a lot of us drone users would really like to see is a UNIQUE drone ship. A ship that 90-100% of its firepower comes from drones (ie. a mini-carrier) and is able to compete with other tier 2 bc. Just curious what the ship would be like if it was laid out like so: 4 highs (0 turrets) 5 mids 7 lows 450m3 drone bay Bonuses +1 drone controlled per BC level +10% drone damage per level I think 10 heavies would do around 800dps (using ogre 2's), but the disadvantage is that they have to get within 5km of their target and they only go 937m/s max with skills. Heavy drone tracking sucks on smaller targets and they can get shot down. Now realize that this ship has no guns only drones so its drone bay should be alot bigger the the Dominix do to that. Another thing to consider is that drones only do 1 type of damage.
Swamp Ziro EPSILON TEAM Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.10.30 07:01:00 - [16] Edited by: Swamp Ziro on 30/10/2006 07:03:10 Edited by: Swamp Ziro on 30/10/2006 07:01:07 Originally by: James Draekn 4 highs (0 turrets) 5 mids 7 lows 450m3 drone bay Bonuses +1 drone controlled per BC level +10% drone damage per level 800 dps Another thing to consider is that drones only do 1 type of damage. Are you for real? XD Originally by: James Draekn but the disadvantage is that they have to get within 5km of their target and they only go 937m/s max with skills. Heavy drone tracking sucks on smaller targets and they can get shot down. Yeah, that totally balances out 800 dps, 4 nos, 5 medslots and 7-slot tank. I swear, seems like you people don't even stick to the pretense of caring about balance.
Chronojam	Posted - 2006.10.30 07:10:00 - [17] Huh, the screenshot I saw of the Myrmidon's description said straight-up that it's a defensive-inclined BC, rather than for people who love to charge in with guns blazing. "A hardier version of its counterpart, the Myrmidon is a ship designed to persist in battle" Maybe the screenshot I saw was faked, but as far as I can tell, it is retarded to market the ship as such a tankmaster but then make it worse at doing so than the Brutix. http://dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/sarmaul/20061024125536vp0.png
Justice Bringer Minmatar United Univers	Posted - 2006.10.30 13:47:00 - [18] Originally by: Swamp Ziro Edited by: Swamp Ziro on 30/10/2006 07:03:10 Edited by: Swamp Ziro on 30/10/2006 07:01:07 Originally by: James Draekn 4 highs (0 turrets) 5 mids 7 lows 450m3 drone bay Bonuses +1 drone controlled per BC level +10% drone damage per level 800 dps Another thing to consider is that drones only do 1 type of damage. Are you for real? XD Originally by: James Draekn but the disadvantage is that they have to get within 5km of their target and they only go 937m/s max with skills. Heavy drone tracking sucks on smaller targets and they can get shot down. Yeah, that totally balances out 800 dps, 4 nos, 5 medslots and 7-slot tank. I swear, seems like you people don't even stick to the pretense of caring about balance. Originally by: Swamp Ziro Edited by: Swamp Ziro on 30/10/2006 07:03:10 Edited by: Swamp Ziro on 30/10/2006 07:01:07 Originally by: James Draekn 4 highs (0 turrets) 5 mids 7 lows 450m3 drone bay Bonuses +1 drone controlled per BC level +10% drone damage per level 800 dps Another thing to consider is that drones only do 1 type of damage. Are you for real? XD Originally by: James Draekn but the disadvantage is that they have to get within 5km of their target and they only go 937m/s max with skills. Heavy drone tracking sucks on smaller targets and they can get shot down. Yeah, that totally balances out 800 dps, 4 nos, 5 medslots and 7-slot tank. I swear, seems like you people don't even stick to the pretense of caring about balance. Actually what he was suggesting isn't so bad. The only problem as I see it is that all 'Drone Ship' have been imbued with the same bonus - 10% to hit points and damamge per lvl. What if the bonus was to something else entirely: 10% to max velocity per lvl for drones 10% bonus to drone optimal range 10% bonus to EW Drone effect per lvl 10% bonus to repair drones repair amount per lvl and so on and so on.... This shouldn't be so difficult to do considering the Ishtar has started the trend: +5km to drone range per lvl and +50m3 to drone space per lvl. Not suggesting that these should be what a drone ship should have, but just look at the number of different bonuses that are available to ships and why is it not feasable for drone ships to have other bonuses other than just to damage for their drones. Having only a damage bonus to drones is very one dimensional, and EVE isn't a one dimensional game. I guess in time the devs at CCP will change things, but I agree that their should be a dedicated drone ship that perhaps cannot fit any turrets of any sort and must purely use drones. Personally I would love to see something like: +5km to drone range +10% to drone velocity There's not point in having the extra range if it takes an eternity to arrive at the destination already battered and bruised.. Anyway, I hope we will see a dedicated turretless drone ship of some description in the future. Justice
James Draekn X.E.N.O.	Posted - 2006.10.30 14:40:00 - [19] What every other none drone user has yet to understand is the problems that drones have. - limited activation range - can be killed - drone BUGS (software) that havent been fixed - poor tracking the bigger they get, so training up skills for better drone velocity actually makes them miss more. So giving the ship a drone velocity bonus would also require that you give the drones a equal amount of boost to tracking to compensate (or more depending on transversal requirements) - non-modifiable damage (what they shoot for stays the same), no excellent or wrecking hits Most every other Tier 2 BC is similar to its related HAC, except for the Myrmidon. Why is it so hard for other players understand that all we want is something along the same line of the Ishtar. If you notice the comparison of the others (Drake -> Cerberus, Harbringer -> Zealot, Hurricane -> Vagabond), then you get the Myrmidon -> Vexor damage comparison. The tier 2 BC are compared as a poor mans HAC. I dont want them to be unbalanced, but everyone seems to think that heavy drones are the I-win button and they aren't. All us drone user want is a true drone boat, thats what I was suggesting. No guns or missiles, just a ship that can use drones and lots of them (able to fit 2 heavy, 2 medium, and 2 light) in the bay, but only have the ability to use only drones for damage. Now since you can kill drone damage, I think thats fair, unless CCP wants to give us drone users the ability kill your turret/launchers so you have a idea how popping a million or two a drone feels, at the same time as reducing your damage.
Temo Jick	Posted - 2006.10.30 15:10:00 - [20] Originally by: Justice Bringer Actually what he was suggesting isn't so bad. The only problem as I see it is that all 'Drone Ship' have been imbued with the same bonus - 10% to hit points and damamge per lvl. What if the bonus was to something else entirely: 10% to max velocity per lvl for drones 10% bonus to drone optimal range 10% bonus to EW Drone effect per lvl 10% bonus to repair drones repair amount per lvl and so on and so on.... This shouldn't be so difficult to do considering the Ishtar has started the trend: +5km to drone range per lvl and +50m3 to drone space per lvl. Not suggesting that these should be what a drone ship should have, but just look at the number of different bonuses that are available to ships and why is it not feasable for drone ships to have other bonuses other than just to damage for their drones. Having only a damage bonus to drones is very one dimensional, and EVE isn't a one dimensional game. I guess in time the devs at CCP will change things, but I agree that their should be a dedicated drone ship that perhaps cannot fit any turrets of any sort and must purely use drones. Personally I would love to see something like: +5km to drone range +10% to drone velocity There's not point in having the extra range if it takes an eternity to arrive at the destination already battered and bruised.. Anyway, I hope we will see a dedicated turretless drone ship of some description in the future. Justice First off, Quality post for thinking outside the box. However there is a reason why drone ships tend to have a damage and durability bonus (Another exception I can think of being the Imicus). If a turret ship has a bonus to tracking and range then it can still increase its damage with a damage module. A drone ship without a bonus to drone durability and damage has no module it can use to patch the hole though. Sacrificing the drone damage and drone durability bonus for drone range, speed or tracking wouldnÆt be overly useful as one can always use modules to increase these. Ok so why not introduce drone damage and durability modules? Well this is debatable. Personally I consider the lack of a module means to increase drone damage to be one of the disadvantages that balance them, but thatÆs just speculation really. Ship bonuses to logistics or EW drones, as you suggested, might be very interesting to play with however. Though IÆm not sure, a bonus to all types of EW drone might be a bit too good, It would take some careful balancing.

Chronojam	Posted - 2006.10.30 16:22:00 - [21] Edited by: Chronojam on 30/10/2006 16:22:38 I already suggested this in the sticky about the new BCs, but what if we dropped some turrets and highslots (keeping a few so we can fit remote repair and drone rangs boosts or a couple point-defense turrets to hit enemy drones/frigs)... And instead, we got an extra low slot or two, maybe a med slot, but hopefully: Extra drone space stock (not even worrying about saying "+25 per BC level") +1 extra drone per level of advanced drone interfacing This way you can sit on your ass in your BC but if you're dedicated to building up for drone/fighter use eventually, you'll be able to put your ADI skills to use by padding your active drone count. Not everybody and his brother probably even has Drone Interfacing V, or even T2 drones let alone T2 heavies, so I'm assuming even less people have Advanced Drone Interfacing V to enough of a degree that a Myrmidon would not be synonymous with "10 drones." So how would that sound? Put a unique ship out there that sits in what amounts to a class of its own; not quite a BS, not quite a cruiser... set to do some fancy armor tanking... instead of relying on guns at all it goes almost exclusively drones, and this "shortcoming" can be compensated for by the use of what I'm going to assume is a very uncommon skill that normally a non-carrier pilot would not even think of picking up. (of course keeping the damage + hp boost per BC level for our babies, too, since that's our only form of attack at all)
Sadist Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.10.31 23:46:00 - [22] How about bonuses: +1 drone controlled/level +10% drone speed and hit points/level 200 drone bay, no damage bonus. Keep everything else the same. òòòòòòòòòòòò VIP member of the [23] Quote: - Numbers alone do not win a battle - No, but I bet they help.
Nahia Senne Fortunis Novum	Posted - 2006.11.01 00:31:00 - [23] Originally by: Sadist How about bonuses: +1 drone controlled/level +10% drone speed and hit points/level 200 drone bay, no damage bonus. Keep everything else the same. and don't forget convert 2 highs into two lows \o/ Make ECCM viable! Give it 25% to scanning resolution!
Xori Ruscuv 1911 ftw	Posted - 2006.11.01 01:15:00 - [24] Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 01/11/2006 01:24:21 Originally by: Nicocat Whine, whine, whine. Tier 2 BCs are gank, not tank. ******* deal with it. Myrmidon has no gank. It has no better a tank than the Brutix. What are you, an idiot? The solutions are: * Make it a tanking droneship. It needs a damage bonus to Medium drones and small drones only. It needs a much larger drone bay. It needs to have one or two high slots moved to low slots. - OR - * Make it a tank ship. Give it speed, leave the drone bonus, and give it a 5% hybrid damage bonus. PS: with current game mechanics, is it even POSSIBLE to make the drone damage bonus for meds and lights only? This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap...
Rhuu Gallente Es and Whizz	Posted - 2006.11.01 01:21:00 - [25] Edited by: Rhuu on 01/11/2006 01:24:05 Originally by: Chronojam +1 extra drone per level of advanced drone interfacing* Better would be a fitting bonus to drone control units that gets better every level. edit: Well, except for the fact that drone control units would cost about as much as the ship...
Benglada Finite Horizon	Posted - 2006.11.01 06:00:00 - [26] yes, why yes i do want a mini domi. Considering the other bc's are mini: ravens, Temps, Geddons. Hell i think with maxxed skills and 3 gyros a hurricane out dps's a autopest... --------------------------- Originally by: Arkanor 0.0 is the Final Frontier. Bring money and friends.
Kunming Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.01 23:25:00 - [27] I just dont get it why the lower tier (brutix) is the turret boat and the high tier one the drone boat, usually it is lower tier is droneboat and highest tier is turretboat. Myrmidon feels kinda strange and unfinished...
Nahia Senne Fortunis Novum	Posted - 2006.11.01 23:30:00 - [28] Originally by: Kunming I just dont get it why the lower tier (brutix) is the turret boat and the high tier one the drone boat, usually it is lower tier is droneboat and highest tier is turretboat. Myrmidon feels kinda strange and unfinished... actually, it feels kinda dead in pvp. cant tank, cant gank, cant ewar and finally, cant drone. Make ECCM viable! Give it 25% to scanning resolution!
Chronojam	Posted - 2006.11.02 00:07:00 - [29] Originally by: Rhuu Edited by: Rhuu on 01/11/2006 01:24:05 Originally by: Chronojam +1 extra drone per level of advanced drone interfacing* Better would be a fitting bonus to drone control units that gets better every level. edit: Well, except for the fact that drone control units would cost about as much as the ship... Yeah, and look at the drone control unit powergrid requirements. Unless they pulled an SB-style "99% powergrid requirement drop." But again, price.. better to tie it solely to the skill and tear off the highslots.
Foible	Posted - 2006.11.02 05:19:00 - [30] Is it horribly selfish to just wish this ship had the same stats as the Ishtar with a different model?



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