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Zazmatazz
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Posted - 2006.11.02 08:39:00 -
[1]
Looking around in forums i found a dev-chat ->Linkage with one answer that missionrunners should have a look upon:
 Quote:
<Viceroy> High Sec has been overbloated with people since lvl 4 agents came out, when can we expect this massive flaw to be addressed?
Hammerhead: It's true, people used to live out in 0.0 then we got the lvl 4 agents and now we have the Jita problem. We should remove level 4 agents from 0.5 and above.
So far i loved EVE becaus of it's system of pvp and non-pvp gameplay coexistance on one server - is this going to die now ?
Aren't there other ways, like reducing lvl 4 empire agent attractivity and make those in lowsec more profitable - do they have to use the ultima ratio ?
I know many 0.0-guys will clap hands now, but they should also know that noone will pay so much money for their expensive faction- and officer items anymore, if the high sec lvl 4 missionrunners die.
And Jita: it's not only used by lvl 4 missionrunners, it's the main trading-hub in EVE, it grew becaus the whole game grew (ofc it was not so full, but that were times when noone thought of 30k online user peak ?), you find there all kind of people, missionrunners (lvl 1-3 too, not only 4), producers, traders - it's a place where you can buy a ship + all fitting you like in one station without travel much. Maybe the new trading system to come in kali will change Jita, but moving lvl 4 agents out of empire will defenitely not.
That were only some spontaneos thoughts - how do you think about this ?
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Digaxector
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Posted - 2006.11.02 09:10:00 -
[2]
I'm not a PvP'er, and I too, like you, enjoy playing my game in a relatively safe environment. I've had the PvP experience, been in an alliance, and a war. While PvP can be very exciting, I still like to play outside of it when I choose to.
I seriously hope they don't remove lvl 4 from high sec as I am just about to start lvl 4 missions, having only done lvl 3 up to now (was trader the first 6 months of my life)
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Drazys
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Posted - 2006.11.02 09:26:00 -
[3]
Until the hordes of macrominers/ISK farmers infesting empire space are truly dealt with by CCP, removing L4 agents from highsec in name of "risk and reward" is so breathtakingly hypocritical it is almost funny.
Also, I know that people will say that "L4 missions require combat ships, so use them at lowsec and don't whine"... Right, as anyone who has flown L4 missions more knows, those missions require PvE- specialized setups if one wishes to complete such missions in any reasonable time, and such PvE- focused setups are no match for PvP- focused setups.
Of course, it sounds better to talk about things like "game balance", "massive flaws" and whatever than just admit the truth and tell that "I want more easy PvP kills".
- Drazzy
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Moyra Rumsfeld
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Posted - 2006.11.02 09:30:00 -
[4]
The day level 4 agents will move out of empire i will move to another mmorg 
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Okimi
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Posted - 2006.11.02 09:51:00 -
[5]
What will happen to your Points that you got saved up then? Last week I just got done working my butt off getting standing up to get the best level 4 agent.
Right Now I have 2 level 4 agents and working on getting a level 3.
If they move will I lose my points that I'm getting now?
Plus this char can only fly frigs and suck in combat. If they do move guess the only time I will see them is when they offer a bpo......guess the daily mission days will be over for me as I'm not going to lose these implants I got as pirates gank me when I enter .4 space
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Angelsdragon
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Posted - 2006.11.02 09:54:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Moyra Rumsfeld
The day level 4 agents will move out of empire i will move to another mmorg
You're not the only one. A lot of people will cancel their account if lvl4 agents move to low sec, and it'd be a very bad thing for everybody ( and for CCP... ).
Wait & see .
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Phantom Speedrunner
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Posted - 2006.11.02 10:33:00 -
[7]
If you want mission runners in lowsec then you really need to address broken mechanics of gate camps that virtually no other respectable MMO will tolerate.
The day they drop level 4 without balancing out the mechanic, wont be just a few poeple quitting I can guarantee it.
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Joshua Foiritain
Gallente
Coreli Corporation
Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.02 10:37:00 -
[8]
Tbh CCP should allow people docked at Gallente ouposts to talk to agents anywhere in the universe, now alliances wont have to go to jita to ***** missions, they can do it right in their own space.
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[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Fubear
Vogon Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2006.11.02 11:05:00 -
[9]
I welcome this change, it will reduce the number of people who mindlessly run lvl4 missions solo. If you want to run level 4 missions, you will have to get out of the newbie corp and into a corp that is based in the area.
You will have groups of mission runners who work together collecting and sharing intel on hostile positions and camps, as well as co-ordinating with local anti-pirates to keep the mission running systems clear.
It would be a great first step for a lot of people into the world of 0.0 and PvP, and it may lead to the creation of a lowsec trade-hub which would be very interesting indeed!
This is a Multiplayer online game, and encouraging mission runners to work together to farm the highest level missions in safety is a step in the right direction.
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FireFoxx80
Caldari
E X O D U S
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2006.11.02 11:10:00 -
[10]
You have to bear one thing in mind.
If people flock to the 0.4 systems, just like they have flocked to the 0.5+ systems; then it will make piracy in those systems untenable.
What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass! |
Jakuzo
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Posted - 2006.11.02 11:16:00 -
[11]
i also wont support the Idea to remove the LvL 4 Agents from the Highsecspace.
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FreeHansje
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.02 11:29:00 -
[12]
Quote:
...it will reduce the number of people who mindlessly run lvl4 missions solo.
Why do you mind?
Quote:
If you want to run level 4 missions, you will have to get out of the newbie corp and into a corp that is based in the area.
Again, why do you want this?
Quote:
...mission runners who work together collecting ...
And again, why...?
Well, I could go on. Basically you're saying: I want you to play MY way, because I don't like the way YOU can play EVE.
I really wonder why you are not capable of letting others play EVE as they like it? Or is this going into the "why is nobody coming to 0.0?!?" rant?
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FreeHansje
Yes, I'm a Newby. So sue me! |
Sokratesz
Guardians of Hell's Gate
Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2006.11.02 12:31:00 -
[13]
Last week i was a bit bored of 0.0 warfare so i ran to empire to do a few missions. I did 6 level 4 missions, 3x infiltrated outposts, 2x right hand of zazz and guristas extravaganza. These totalled me a whopping 200million ISK after bounties and loot and i only spent about 5 hours doing them.
So...i can see why CCP wants to move them to other areas..theyre just too frikking ****' lucrative.
WTS Rattlesnake, 2.1Bil, or trade for CNR + 800Mil. Contact me in-game. |
Edori
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Posted - 2006.11.02 12:50:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Sokratesz
Last week i was a bit bored of 0.0 warfare so i ran to empire to do a few missions. I did 6 level 4 missions, 3x infiltrated outposts, 2x right hand of zazz and guristas extravaganza. These totalled me a whopping 200million ISK after bounties and loot and i only spent about 5 hours doing them.
So...i can see why CCP wants to move them to other areas..theyre just too frikking ****' lucrative.
infiltrated outpost -> 17M *3 -> 51M
right hand.. -> 4..5M * 2 -> 10M
GE -> 20M *1 20M
-> 81M (incl. dronesloot from IO)
You're very lucky with your loot from right hand and GE.
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Fubear
Vogon Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2006.11.02 13:06:00 -
[15]
Originally by: FreeHansje
Quote:
...it will reduce the number of people who mindlessly run lvl4 missions solo.
Why do you mind?
Quote:
If you want to run level 4 missions, you will have to get out of the newbie corp and into a corp that is based in the area.
Again, why do you want this?
Quote:
...mission runners who work together collecting ...
And again, why...?
Well, I could go on. Basically you're saying: I want you to play MY way, because I don't like the way YOU can play EVE.
I really wonder why you are not capable of letting others play EVE as they like it? Or is this going into the "why is nobody coming to 0.0?!?" rant?
Firstly, to answer your three questions:
1) I dont
2) Because it is more fun/interesting than the current system.
3) Because it is more fun/interesting than the current system.
Moving level 4 mission running to lowsec will introduce a new dynamic to mission running that will encourage co-operation and teamwork with other mission runners and anti-pirates. This will be more challenging and interesting for mission runners than the current system - what is wrong with agreeing with a gameplay change that makes the game more interesting and fun?
All the complaints about the proposed change are that you are increasing the risk while keeping the reward static.
Considering that lvl4 missions payout comparable to 0.0 life for zero risk and minimal effort, I cannot see that complaint being justified.
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FreeHansje
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.02 13:14:00 -
[16]
Quote:
...what is wrong with agreeing with a gameplay change that makes the game more interesting and fun?
You are still saying why YOU think these changes make it more interesting for missionrunners. Many posters think differently, so why change it?
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FreeHansje
Yes, I'm a Newby. So sue me! |
Guile D'Verde
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Posted - 2006.11.02 13:21:00 -
[17]
Being able to log on and run a few missions without hassle is one of the things that brought me to the game. I'd like to move on to PVP eventually, but my out of game schedule and ingame wallet prevents it. Taking the level four agents out of empire space would drastically reduce my ability to move on to other goals in game.
Plus as far as 0.0 ratting goes--and I might be mistaken as I have no first hand experience with them--you have a much better chance of faction items from them than you do in level 4 missions.
Regardless, one dev saying "we should" doesn't necassarily mean "we are going to." Perhaps the freaking out is premature.
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Gamer4liff
Caldari
Metalworks
THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
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Posted - 2006.11.02 13:31:00 -
[18]
If they wanted to do it they probably would have done it by now, there is already a system in place that increases the rewards of lowsec mission running. So yeah I don't think they will do it.
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Big Al
The Aftermath
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Posted - 2006.11.02 13:38:00 -
[19]
About time CCP.
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Vasiliyan
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2006.11.02 13:43:00 -
[20]
Lowsec mission running is so safe that I pirated someone's hauler simply to keep things interesting. They could move all the L4Q20 agents into lowsec, most are there already.
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FireFoxx80
Caldari
E X O D U S
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2006.11.02 14:15:00 -
[21]
10 replies and people miss the point of my post.
Jita has 700+ people in it every night, partly due to the mission runners. I'll be kind and say 200 of them are level4 mission runners.
Now, if 200 pilots all move to a single 0.4 system to NPC, you will require a serious pirate presence to stop people from NPCing.
See my point? It's nothing to quit the game over; especially as low-sec agents have better quality than high-sec ones.
What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass! |
Sokratesz
Guardians of Hell's Gate
Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2006.11.02 14:16:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Sokratesz on 02/11/2006 14:17:43
Originally by: Edori
infiltrated outpost -> 17M *3 -> 51M
right hand.. -> 4..5M * 2 -> 10M
GE -> 20M *1 20M
-> 81M (incl. dronesloot from IO)
You're very lucky with your loot from right hand and GE.
Actually the figures are a bit better (bounties & loot) but yeah, i got three faction hardeners on the last stage of GE and that zor dude dropped a load of very expensive named stuff,both times. Also, i got about 4mil in rewrad per mission (good q. agent)
WTS Rattlesnake, 2.1Bil, or trade for CNR + 800Mil. Contact me in-game. |
Sokratesz
Guardians of Hell's Gate
Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2006.11.02 14:16:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Sokratesz on 02/11/2006 14:15:48
*edit* double
WTS Rattlesnake, 2.1Bil, or trade for CNR + 800Mil. Contact me in-game. |
Mikal Drey
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Posted - 2006.11.02 14:19:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Sokratesz
Last week i was a bit bored of 0.0 warfare so i ran to empire to do a few missions. I did 6 level 4 missions, 3x infiltrated outposts, 2x right hand of zazz and guristas extravaganza. These totalled me a whopping 200million ISK after bounties and loot and i only spent about 5 hours doing them.
So...i can see why CCP wants to move them to other areas..theyre just too frikking ****' lucrative.
those carebear mission runners who earn that isk purchase those lovely facion mods that drop from your beloved 0.0
10/10 complexes, Faction NPC's, high bounties, Highest Ores . .. 0.0 isnt lucrative either :/
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Shionoya Risa
Caldari
The Xenodus Initiative.
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Posted - 2006.11.02 14:26:00 -
[25]
Originally by: FireFoxx80
Jita has 500+ people in it every night, partly due to the mission runners. I'll be kind and say 0 of them are level4 mission runners.
Fixed. There are no level 4 agents in Jita, also, there is no where near 700 people in Jita every night, not even Sundays.
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Friedrick Psitalon
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.02 14:42:00 -
[26]
::shrug:: I've operated in a .2 system with three L4 Q20 agents for... six, seven months now?
I've never once been pirated on a mission. ONE time, someone tried - I slap the scanner every five minutes or so, saw three probes, recalled drones and used my insta to station.
99% survival level in low-sec doing missions is VERY, VERY simple - ridiculously simple, in fact:
1) Use instas to gates and your station of choice. (You should do this anyway, regardless of your play style, to speed up your play.)
2) Be aware of where you are in system. If you're near a celestial, scan once in awhile. (Yes, you should have some vague awareness of where you are in space. Silly notion, I know.)
3) If you see scan probes... leave.
Melt all your non-major loot down into minerals and sell them where you are; people will make the trip. Use a stabbed-out industrial with instas for the rare trip to selling territory for the major loot.
Simple, voila, you have the ability to run missions with utter impunity in lowsec.
L4 missions shouldn't be available in high-sec. Why do I mind you running them there?
1) You lower the value of that mission every time you complete it. That's how missions are calculated for payout.
2) Your LP is only slightly lower than mine per-mission in safe space. You get implants just like I do, and that means you sell them, just like I do - and I get less.
3) Mechanics of servers, actually. Super-loading Jita while I can name two dozen low-sec systems that are tombs means that CCP has to jump through hoops to balance the server load. If you spread the load out, life will be easier on everyone.
Play smart. Move to low-sec, work with largely the same amount of risk, and make a lot more money. (From what I hear about the nightmares of Jita suicide gankers, I wonder if my life is safer in low-sec. I've not lost my mission ship in five months.)
L4 shouldn't be in high-sec; the highest rewards in mining, ratting, and moon-mining aren't in high sec... why should the highest rewards in missioning be?
This isn't another sandbox MMO; use your head, slip out into low-sec and enjoy the bounties of a much easier (and possibly safer) life.
The Dead Parrot Shoppe: always hiring the intelligent/mature, ubernoob or vet. Experience we can give you; brains, we can't. |
Epoch
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Posted - 2006.11.02 14:48:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Epoch on 02/11/2006 14:50:09
Edited by: Epoch on 02/11/2006 14:48:49
Originally by: Fubear
Originally by: FreeHansje
Quote:
...it will reduce the number of people who mindlessly run lvl4 missions solo.
Why do you mind?
Quote:
If you want to run level 4 missions, you will have to get out of the newbie corp and into a corp that is based in the area.
Again, why do you want this?
Quote:
...mission runners who work together collecting ...
And again, why...?
Well, I could go on. Basically you're saying: I want you to play MY way, because I don't like the way YOU can play EVE.
I really wonder why you are not capable of letting others play EVE as they like it? Or is this going into the "why is nobody coming to 0.0?!?" rant?
Firstly, to answer your three questions:
1) I dont
2) Because it is more fun/interesting than the current system.
3) Because it is more fun/interesting than the current system.
Moving level 4 mission running to lowsec will introduce a new dynamic to mission running that will encourage co-operation and teamwork with other mission runners and anti-pirates. This will be more challenging and interesting for mission runners than the current system - what is wrong with agreeing with a gameplay change that makes the game more interesting and fun?
All the complaints about the proposed change are that you are increasing the risk while keeping the reward static.
Considering that lvl4 missions payout comparable to 0.0 life for zero risk and minimal effort, I cannot see that complaint being justified.
Fubear.. you arent addressing the questions FreeHansje is asking you. ontop of that you're completely missing the point. you're one person, and individual. your opinion does NOT represent the other 100k+ players. i assure you..there are far more ppl who have a complaint with this supposed change than who embrace it.
last time i checked I pay for this game.. who the **** are you to tell me how to play?
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Ariel Dawn
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Posted - 2006.11.02 15:00:00 -
[28]
Leave L4 missions as they are and introduce L5 missions that can only be found in lowsec AND require teamwork to complete. Making 20-40mil an hour from a L4 mission is nothing to mining the best ores, complexes or finding an officer spawn in 0.0.
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KilleR 004
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Posted - 2006.11.02 15:35:00 -
[29]
A lot of players in high sector space running LvL4 missions are mainly solo players who realy don't want to be in 0.0 for various reasons, the main one being that too many 0.0 corps try and controll what people do as soon as they log on!
There are far more rewards in 0.0 so just leave things as they are and stop trying to move people from empire all the time. |
Zing Ashuwanik
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Posted - 2006.11.02 16:13:00 -
[30]
Originally by: KilleR 004
A lot of players in high sector space running LvL4 missions are mainly solo players who realy don't want to be in 0.0 for various reasons, the main one being that too many 0.0 corps try and controll what people do as soon as they log on!
There are far more rewards in 0.0 so just leave things as they are and stop trying to move people from empire all the time.
Having CTAs 9/10 days that I was able to play is the reason I left my first 0.0 alliance.
I don't find spending 4 hours camping a gate fun. I don't find jumping 27 hops to shoot at a POS fun.
To Address the 'risk v reward' argument. On those occasions where there was no CTA and I could rat, it was perfectly safe, and the combo of bounties and loot far outstrips what I make on L4 missions now. Alt at POS in a hauler, chain all the spawns in the system. The spawns (even trip 1.4m BS) were easier to tank than the L4 missions.
(Yes, I realize that the ratting was safe BECAUSE of all the CTAs)
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