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Murukan
Minmatar
The Priory
Shroud Of Darkness
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Posted - 2006.11.03 17:02:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Sinia
To me, NBSI is just the result of poor discipline and people wanting to play counter-strike in space. Kudos to those alliances that can actually control their pilots into not shooting everything that moves so they can inflate their killcount on the various killboards of EVE.
man carebears like you ***** me up. How is people enjoying pvp counter strike in space and poor discipline. Seriously stop sucking roids for a minute and realize there are other aspects to this game.
Manlove by Zaphod Jones
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Pezzle
Amarr
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.03 17:07:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Nez Perces
Edited by: Nez Perces on 03/11/2006 16:53:16
"An area of 0.0 where access is not limited by allegiance to the host group.
The first sentence does it best. My own belief is that any alliance that holds space has a code of conduct they expect others to follow.
Is this really about NBSI vs NRDS ?
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Nez Perces
Amarr
Black Spot.
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Posted - 2006.11.03 17:17:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Pezzle
NRDS ?
... whats NRDS?.. shorthand for nerds?
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Sli'co Scoser
Gallente
Luna Tech Manufacturing Industries
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Posted - 2006.11.03 17:18:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Nez Perces
Originally by: Sli'co Scoser
So, in other words, to go to 0.0, I should:
1. Join an Alliance.
2. Pay out the ass to an Alliance to be blued so I can come and play in their space.
3. Try to sneak into 0.0 and get WTFPWNed by an NBSI camp.
4. Stay in Empire and carebear forever.
5. Quit the game.
It'll probably come down to 1 in the end for me, but maybe I want to go play in a "free space" 0.0 region and get a feel for the place before I turn into a completely ruthless NBSI gankmobile. I accept the dangers of 0.0, but maybe I'd like to lessen the number of people seeking my instant death. 
This is precisely whats morally bankrupt about the arguments commonly used in favour of free space.
Your view of EVE is extremely limited.
If go to the top of these boards and look at Joshua's map for a few seconds you will find that there are several areas of 0.0 that are currently uncontested, mainly because they are rife with npc stations. Stain, Venal and Syndicate spring to mind.
You can pick up a set of bkmrks for around the 20 mil mark and head out to one of those areas.. where you will find the 0.0 you look for.
You may die on the way there, but take precautions like a cheap ship and adequate cloning and the fear of death will be much reduced.
Try it.. I guarantee you that it will be infinitely more exciting than going to My Little Pony World.
You might even be safer, as these free space zones are invariably magnets for pirates.
Your uncontested regions seem to me to be even more dangerous than "Little Pony Land" because there's no controlling alliance that'll patrol on occassion to keep the residents semi-happy. The residents of the uncontested regions may not have a colored map section, but I'm sure they're not giving out free copies of the New Testament and candy bars.
Yes, I'll be getting bookmarks and OCDing over the map and scanning before I go rush blindly into any region of dangerous lowsec or 0.0. Already have jump clones set so I don't carry any implants into 0.0 with me.
Joshua's map FTW. I OCD over it and Ombey's Eve maps to try and find a good region with a semi-sane and little traveled path (and to keep track of the existing alliance drama and wars).
Cheap ship (relatively) has already been prepped and I'm working up a few more skills to enhance it before I start playing around in lowsec.
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Taurequis
Waylander 01
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Posted - 2006.11.03 17:22:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Sinia
To me, NBSI is just the result of poor discipline and people wanting to play counter-strike in space. Kudos to those alliances that can actually control their pilots into not shooting everything that moves so they can inflate their killcount on the various killboards of EVE.
I actually like this point...
So much so i'm going to quote it. 
But nice post Nez. Good discussion topic.
Taur
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Manas
The Graduates
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.03 17:22:00 -
[36]
You want it to be one way but it's not. There are plenty of altuistic corporations who do do a public service (like "Eve University") and do help the community as a whole by increasing player retention. There are plenty of roleplying alliances who have goals other than wallet and region expansion.
Totally free space can be difficult, but with some compromises there can be areas where non-aligned neutral corporations can enjoy 0.0 space without devoting themselves to an alliance.. a mid-point between the very successful "pet" arrangements the major alliances have and total laissez-faire openness.
The motivations of space holding alliances can support more ideas than that of the jealously space holding NBSI alliance. Frankly if I were starting an alliance I'd want to try something new and interesting instead of the same old thing. How dull.
About TGRAD
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Nez Perces
Amarr
Black Spot.
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Posted - 2006.11.03 17:32:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Sli'co Scoser
Your uncontested regions seem to me to be even more dangerous than "Little Pony Land" because there's no controlling alliance that'll patrol on occassion to keep the residents semi-happy. The residents of the uncontested regions may not have a colored map section, but I'm sure they're not giving out free copies of the New Testament and candy bars.
... it very much seems to me that you are not ready to make the mental leap required to leave the bussom of concord in empire. Visting "free space" areas ... will not alleviate your problems, but compound them.
I suggest you spend some more time in empire until you are willing to take some chances and live/die a little.
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Angry Dan
Caldari
Widowmakers
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Posted - 2006.11.03 17:33:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Murukan
Originally by: Sinia
To me, NBSI is just the result of poor discipline and people wanting to play counter-strike in space. Kudos to those alliances that can actually control their pilots into not shooting everything that moves so they can inflate their killcount on the various killboards of EVE.
man carebears like you ***** me up. How is people enjoying pvp counter strike in space and poor discipline. Seriously stop sucking roids for a minute and realize there are other aspects to this game.
You missed the point.
By giving in to the waaaaaa! I want to see pretty bang things whinging tards, and then implementing NBSI, why is that not playing counter strike in spaaaace?
Theres more to Eve Online than PVP combat. And mining (god I hate mining). Most alliances that run NBSI are focussed entirely on PVP. Theres plenty fun to be had doing other stuff , such as roleplay, crafting, pos operations (okay thats not fun), scouting, trading, PVE as well. Hell, I keep forgetting just how much stuff you can do in eve. Thats why I used to like to play 23/7. Theres always something to do.
Criticising other peoples play styles isn't big or clever. Just because they enjoy doing something different doesn't make them 'ghey' or 'lamers' or 'n00bs'.
++++++++++++++++++++
Founder member of the Huzzah Federation.
Remember, the grass is greener on our side of the fence
Widowmakers director
Fear my kneepads of allure!
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Pezzle
Amarr
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.03 17:35:00 -
[39]
Not Red Dont Shoot
Instead of screaming WAAAAGGH WAAAAGHH and going in with guns blazing at any unfamiliar tick on the overview.
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Royaldo
KVA Noble Inc.
THE H0RDE
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Posted - 2006.11.03 17:39:00 -
[40]
wow every time someone plays this game differently than me im gonna make a long post about nothing at all.
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Nez Perces
Amarr
Black Spot.
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Posted - 2006.11.03 18:00:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Royaldo
wow every time someone plays this game differently than me im gonna make a long post about nothing at all.
I'm afraid you missed the entire point of this thread... I've already explained the point twice..
I'll do it a third time just for you:
The point of this thread is to debunk the most common arguments in favour of the free space ideal... the free space ideal is something that has been knocking around since the beginning of the game and consequently so have the lies used to promote it.
Thats the point.
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Joerd Toastius
Octavian Vanguard
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Posted - 2006.11.03 18:08:00 -
[42]
Myth #4: running a 0.0 alliance is really easy, the infrastructure looks after itself, administration is a doddle and you have loads of time to devote to pursuing idealistic visions of utopia.
Reality: all of the above is pretty much false. Draw your own conclusions :P
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Royaldo
KVA Noble Inc.
THE H0RDE
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Posted - 2006.11.03 18:10:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Nez Perces
Originally by: Royaldo
wow every time someone plays this game differently than me im gonna make a long post about nothing at all.
I'm afraid you missed the entire point of this thread... I've already explained the point twice..
I'll do it a third time just for you:
The point of this thread is to debunk the most common arguments in favour of the free space ideal... the free space ideal is something that has been knocking around since the beginning of the game and consequently so have the lies used to promote it.
Thats the point.
no, you've missed the point. not every plays this game the same way. there is no right way or wrong way.
all you've done is putting your subjective opinions on this part of the forums.
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Manas
The Graduates
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.03 18:15:00 -
[44]
I've helped summarize this for you. Feel free to edit your original post:
Myth #1: Players not leet as me are noobs.
Myth #2: Why bother with those not leet as me?
Myth #3: NRDS? What's that?
About TGRAD
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Nez Perces
Amarr
Black Spot.
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Posted - 2006.11.03 18:17:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Royaldo
no, you've missed the point. not every plays this game the same way. there is no right way or wrong way.
nowhere did I say that opening up space to neutrals is the wrong way to play the game...
If its opened up for commercial purposes, fairplay.
If its opened up for self-amusement, fairplay.
but.. when entities proclaim that its for the good of the game and to assist the poor newbies.. thats when it becomes a self-perpetuating lie.
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Mark Weston
Caldari
The Graduates
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.03 18:19:00 -
[46]
To the OP:
I think there's a whole generation of EVE players who "graduated" from EVE University with an understanding of the value of 0.0 and the skills to live in it, thanks to that little corner of space run by The Big Blue. Those players are proof that your "Myth no. 1", isn't a myth no matter how much you would like it to be.
I joined EVE Uni within a week of starting to play EVE, and immediately found myself with access not only 0.0 space but all the player created content that came with it. I learnt, and was taught, the skills and the mind-set needed to fly safely in 0.0, the game-mechanics differences, how to contribute to a combat op, how to scout, and generally how to survive in an often hostile bit of space. (The one thing I wasn't able to do was make money there, as I didn't want to mine and the rats were far too big for my little Kestrel)
Four months later I'm part of a corp and an alliance which have me operating in EC-P8R. The only reason I have the skills and the experience to survive and play in such an exciting area is that BLUE offered a chunk of Free Space in which I could learn them.
New to EVE? Join channel: "Eve University" or read here |
Murukan
Minmatar
The Priory
Shroud Of Darkness
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Posted - 2006.11.03 18:19:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Murukan on 03/11/2006 18:21:18
Originally by: Angry Dan
Originally by: Murukan
Originally by: Sinia
To me, NBSI is just the result of poor discipline and people wanting to play counter-strike in space. Kudos to those alliances that can actually control their pilots into not shooting everything that moves so they can inflate their killcount on the various killboards of EVE.
man carebears like you ***** me up. How is people enjoying pvp counter strike in space and poor discipline. Seriously stop sucking roids for a minute and realize there are other aspects to this game.
You missed the point.
By giving in to the waaaaaa! I want to see pretty bang things whinging tards, and then implementing NBSI, why is that not playing counter strike in spaaaace?
Theres more to Eve Online than PVP combat. And mining (god I hate mining). Most alliances that run NBSI are focussed entirely on PVP. Theres plenty fun to be had doing other stuff , such as roleplay, crafting, pos operations (okay thats not fun), scouting, trading, PVE as well. Hell, I keep forgetting just how much stuff you can do in eve. Thats why I used to like to play 23/7. Theres always something to do.
Criticising other peoples play styles isn't big or clever. Just because they enjoy doing something different doesn't make them 'ghey' or 'lamers' or 'n00bs'.
criticizing people's playstyle is exactly what that guy did. Some of us enjoy the game for pvp, just because that's what we want to do and not roleplay or run pos how does that make us immature cs in space kiddies? I think it boils down to is that whiner got ganked a couple times and wants to cry about how nbsi runners are just lamers.
Manlove by Zaphod Jones
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Clavius XIV
Auctoritan Syndicate
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.03 18:27:00 -
[48]
NBSI is definately more efficent to implement than NRDS due to the standings cap.
When both are properly implemented, NBSI is more secure, as with NRDS each hostile entity gets at least "one free attack".
But NRDS is a heck of a lot more fun You see more non-blobing hostiles. The unknown folks you see coming thru local could be future friends or enemies. It keeps things interesting and every day is different. Small time pirates looking to make names for themselves, traders looking to set up shop, you run into all types... and interaction can take so many forms besides just going in guns blazing (although there is plenty of shooty too).
I can't imagine what it would be like to go back to deep 0.0 where there are rarely any hostiles except for the occasional massive blob of 20+ that mange to break through a choke point. I pity the folks who need to join up into 30 man gangs and travel 20 jumps or sit on a gate just to get some "PvP".
NRDS is not efficent, but it sure keeps things interesting.
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Sinia
Shadow Council
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Posted - 2006.11.03 18:37:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Murukan
Originally by: Sinia
To me, NBSI is just the result of poor discipline and people wanting to play counter-strike in space. Kudos to those alliances that can actually control their pilots into not shooting everything that moves so they can inflate their killcount on the various killboards of EVE.
man carebears like you ***** me up. How is people enjoying pvp counter strike in space and poor discipline. Seriously stop sucking roids for a minute and realize there are other aspects to this game.
I believe you missed my point entirely and decided to call me a carebear? Thankyou for adding weight to my arguments. There are large numbers of pvp'ers in EVE that dont employ nbsi and dont have to resort to ganking neutrals that didnt have a clue it was coming to be able to enjoy playing EVE.
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Hans Roaming
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.11.03 18:47:00 -
[50]
Actually I used to think of Providence and low sec domain as 0.0 lite. That is people could come out of empire and get into low sec, join the local community and learn the skills needed to live out in 0.0. Of course you'd have pirates but it was small scale and the whole concept allowed for a less steep learning curve.
Why do it, well it gets new players into areas where they might not go and provides fun for both sides of the 'law' as am sure TSDS and Priory had as much fun as we did down there in Providence.
Mind you when I left the chair of Huzzah the alliance switched to NBSI if I recall but then we had moved to Catch where NRDS was less applicable.
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zeKzn
Empire of Destiny
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Posted - 2006.11.03 19:02:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Nez Perces
but there is something morally bankrupt with claiming that these goals are for the good of the community and the new players etc... which is quite often the primary argument behind setting up free space.
Only if the claim is made untruthfully. If they actually believe its good for the community and new players, there is nothing morally corrupt about their action.
my thoughts are my own and do not represent the thoughts of my corp |
Murukan
Minmatar
The Priory
Shroud Of Darkness
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Posted - 2006.11.03 19:10:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Sinia
Originally by: Murukan
Originally by: Sinia
To me, NBSI is just the result of poor discipline and people wanting to play counter-strike in space. Kudos to those alliances that can actually control their pilots into not shooting everything that moves so they can inflate their killcount on the various killboards of EVE.
man carebears like you ***** me up. How is people enjoying pvp counter strike in space and poor discipline. Seriously stop sucking roids for a minute and realize there are other aspects to this game.
I believe you missed my point entirely and decided to call me a carebear? Thankyou for adding weight to my arguments. There are large numbers of pvp'ers in EVE that dont employ nbsi and dont have to resort to ganking neutrals that didnt have a clue it was coming to be able to enjoy playing EVE.
0.0 is lawless. People fight to live there. Just because some random clueless idiot decides to wander in he should get free pass? Or he can be introduced to 0.0 like most of us were. So whine all you want nuetrals will forever be ganked. Howabout fight for your own piece of 0.0?
Manlove by Zaphod Jones
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maGz
The Priory
Shroud Of Darkness
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Posted - 2006.11.03 19:35:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Sinia
Originally by: Murukan
Originally by: Sinia
To me, NBSI is just the result of poor discipline and people wanting to play counter-strike in space. Kudos to those alliances that can actually control their pilots into not shooting everything that moves so they can inflate their killcount on the various killboards of EVE.
man carebears like you ***** me up. How is people enjoying pvp counter strike in space and poor discipline. Seriously stop sucking roids for a minute and realize there are other aspects to this game.
I believe you missed my point entirely and decided to call me a carebear? Thankyou for adding weight to my arguments. There are large numbers of pvp'ers in EVE that dont employ nbsi and dont have to resort to ganking neutrals that didnt have a clue it was coming to be able to enjoy playing EVE.
Problem is you call pvp counterstrike in space - now maybe you didn't mean it that way, but it seems like you think pvpers are a bunch of self-centered pimpled kiddies who pvp to inflate their ego.
While you may not actually share the passion pvpers have, you can at least respect it. If not, you don't belong on these forums tbh.
____________
The Priory Killboard |
Kunming
Amarr
adeptus gattacus
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.03 19:41:00 -
[54]
If you dont wanna live in free space no-one's forcing you. And no-one's holding you back to declare war on them neither.
The only truth in this topic is "Myth no.3" (which rather indicates lacking game mechanics with standings), the rest is subjective babbling from various sides..
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Vantras
Amarr Border Defense Consortium
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.03 19:48:00 -
[55]
"Morally bankrupt concept"
Talk about a point not proven.....
Interesting thread though.
The CVA is proud to extend the reaches of the empire into lawless space. We do so because it is our mandate, it adds excitment to what was previously a backwater/pirate region, it makes for a wonderful community of players with dozens of differnt motivations and objectives, and its something a bit different. It is a cause and a mission worth fighting for.
I couldnt fathom living 30 jumps into 0.0, safely protected behind 24 hour bottleneck gate blobs. I couldnt fathom seeing only members of my alliance or one or two nap'd alliances all day/every day. I couldnt fathom never meeting a new player or a new corporation that wasnt somehow approved by my alliance to be in the system. While I cant fathom this style of play..I certainly dont disagree with it...and believe that it and the dozens of other ways people play EVE are what makes it great!
Morally bankrupt <is embarassed for the op>
Vantras
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Sli'co Scoser
Gallente
Luna Tech Manufacturing Industries
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Posted - 2006.11.03 19:58:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Nez Perces
Originally by: Sli'co Scoser
Your uncontested regions seem to me to be even more dangerous than "Little Pony Land" because there's no controlling alliance that'll patrol on occassion to keep the residents semi-happy. The residents of the uncontested regions may not have a colored map section, but I'm sure they're not giving out free copies of the New Testament and candy bars.
... it very much seems to me that you are not ready to make the mental leap required to leave the bussom of concord in empire. Visting "free space" areas ... will not alleviate your problems, but compound them.
I suggest you spend some more time in empire until you are willing to take some chances and live/die a little.
So in other words, I'm an idiot and I should take option #4: (Stay in Empire and carebear forever.) from my original post.
I'm not afraid to die, I'm just not of the opinion everyone needs to kill everything they come across and should play in the most dangerous areas of the game 24/7 in order to keep their e-peen erect.
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Butter Dog
The Dead Miners Society
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Posted - 2006.11.03 20:03:00 -
[57]
Morals have nothing to do with it.
Its a game.
People can play in 'their' space as they like.
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Fedaykin Naib
0utbreak
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Posted - 2006.11.03 20:12:00 -
[58]
Originally by: EnglishBob
Free Hat!
FREE HAT! FREEE HAT!!!!!!
For those who want to know more about the "Free Hat!!!" Movement may look here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Hat
"Long Live the Fighters!"
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Fred0
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.03 20:39:00 -
[59]
Perhaps we should start by defining free space 
You took the discussion about 3 years back by starting this Nez. This debate was raging on a higher level a few years back with Jade in the driving seat. But in the rp section back then to give it an ideological background because obviously that's where it's most interesting.
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Leilani Solaris
Gallente
0utbreak
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Posted - 2006.11.03 21:04:00 -
[60]
Can i have a free hat?
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