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Matrix Aran
Legio Immortalis
   |
Posted - 2006.11.03 22:07:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Matrix Aran on 03/11/2006 22:12:53
JOY!
An update: The look of it is as follows: All old bookmarks do not work. Period. Bookmarks can still be created anywhere in space, though the idea is that all 100000000 old gate to gate bookmarks are not needed any more and will be deleted by thier owners.
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Xori Ruscuv
1911 ftw
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 22:14:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 03/11/2006 22:15:20
huh?
link pls
EDIT: Oh, you're seeing this on SISI, you mean?
Awsome!
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Balian Bowmaker
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 22:16:00 -
[3]
what? can you give a reference?
I remember seeing a possible change to the BM system but i thought it was along the lines of training a skill to get more and more accurate with your warps and eventually not needing BMs.
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Xori Ruscuv
1911 ftw
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 22:18:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Balian Bowmaker
what? can you give a reference?
I remember seeing a possible change to the BM system but i thought it was along the lines of training a skill to get more and more accurate with your warps and eventually not needing BMs.
That was pretty much a rumor, I think. Either Tux or Oveur on the dev chat said that they liked one of two options:
- warp to 0, autopilot to 15
- scrap bookmarks and use the tools you were given
... and they had "lost faith" in other "solutions"
I'm glad, personally. We already have ENOUGH skills to train.
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Paigan
Amarr
Katsu Corporation
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 22:18:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Matrix Aran
JOY!
An update: The look of it is as follows: All old bookmarks do not work. Period. Bookmarks can still be created anywhere in space, though the idea is that all 100000000 old gate to gate bookmarks are not needed any more and will be deleted by thier owners.
Sounds strange somehow.
You say that all old BMs don't work anymore but also that the old g2g BMs are not needed anymore (implying that they still work).
Are you claiming that this is a change on sisi?
Or is this just your idea.
Some more clearance in the posting would be nice...
--
This game is still in beta stage |
Xori Ruscuv
1911 ftw
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 22:19:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Paigan
Are you claiming that this is a change on sisi?
Or is this just your idea.
Some more clearance in the posting would be nice...
It is on sisi, I believe. other people are reporting the same thing :D
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Matrix Aran
Legio Immortalis
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 22:23:00 -
[7]
This is on Sisi as of the latest patch. you can manualy war to any item in space at 0km. any old bookmarks simply will not even allow you to right click them. Any new bookmark created on the server now works the same as allways. Due to the implementation of warp to 0 the fact that old bookmarks do not work at all is not a problem, except with safespots.
----
|
Paigan
Amarr
Katsu Corporation
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 22:25:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Matrix Aran
This is on Sisi as of the latest patch. you can manualy war to any item in space at 0km. any old bookmarks simply will not even allow you to right click them. Any new bookmark created on the server now works the same as allways. Due to the implementation of warp to 0 the fact that old bookmarks do not work at all is not a problem, except with safespots.
Ah that was clear. Thx very much :-)
--
This game is still in beta stage |
Tiuwaz
Minmatar
Omacron Militia
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 22:26:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Tiuwaz on 03/11/2006 22:26:25
yeah warp to 0 is on sisi and it works (you land about 1,5 km from gate)
also warp options are slightly different too, they are now
0km
10km
20km
30km
50km
70km
100km
finally they are doing it!
edit: P.S.: and yes the old bookmarks dont work anymore
Originally by: Oveur
This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
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Elaron
Minmatar
Legio Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.11.03 22:27:00 -
[10]
Confirmed, it's on SiSi right now.
Autopilot warps you to 15km, manual warping allows you to go all the way to 0m.
Elaron
It is never too late to correct the mistakes of the past. |
Drosssk
Minmatar
Sniggerdly
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Posted - 2006.11.03 22:29:00 -
[11]
what about all old bookmarks to safespots? especialy those that people have put giant secures at?
There is no way i can go around and clean up all my stashed loot before kali hits...
__________________
Enemies strengthen you. Allies weaken. |
Matrix Aran
Legio Immortalis
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 22:36:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Drosssk
what about all old bookmarks to safespots? especialy those that people have put giant secures at?
There is no way i can go around and clean up all my stashed loot before kali hits...
I believe these can be scan probed
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Rak'Kabal Kain
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.11.03 22:38:00 -
[13]
on test server and warp to 0 works and the peoplez of eve were happy once again
Y@Y
VC |
KillerLU
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 22:40:00 -
[14]
YIPPIEEE one thing which is good in Kali 
--------------
Recruiting:
Check our Recruitement thread or our HP |
Valynn Fylahd
Knowledge Industries Geological Research
Unbrella Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 22:46:00 -
[15]
I always wondered why Navigation or Warp drive operation skills didn't affect the precision of your warp jumps. IMO it should, in increments of 3 or 2km/lvl.
_____________________
Knowledge is Power and ... uh... Geological Research is... uh... also power? |
Statics
A.W.M
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 22:47:00 -
[16]
I just spit up my coffee after seeing this.
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soon svavzface
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Posted - 2006.11.03 22:47:00 -
[17]
YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY, and AAAAAAAARGH NO, pirate days seem to get a little difficult, but for alt YAY
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MrFantastic
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Posted - 2006.11.03 22:54:00 -
[18]
Finally! This will affect those gate camping pirate snipers trying to snipe people enroute to the gate. However the WCS target range nerf probably eliminated most those pirates anyway...
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Matrix Aran
Legio Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.11.03 23:02:00 -
[19]
As a pirate I can tell you this doesn't hurt me one bit. I allways camp on the incoming gate so I catch peeps in alighnment.
----
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LVSOCOM
Minmatar
The Rat Pack
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Posted - 2006.11.03 23:15:00 -
[20]
-Warp to 0 manually
-Warp to 15 with autopilot
-Interdiction Spheres within X km (don't want to debate distances yet) of your warp in point pull out of warp and into the bubble.
Everyone is happy.
Players can travel fast with a little extra work.
CCP isn't upset at autopilot travel speeds.
0.0 Gate camps will require interdictors, but they will otherwise work just fine.
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RobW1
Caldari
Iyen-Oursta Salvage
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Posted - 2006.11.03 23:21:00 -
[21]
Interdictors or bubbles, right?
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Gamer4liff
Caldari
Metalworks
THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
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Posted - 2006.11.03 23:31:00 -
[22]
as a freighter pilot I cannot say how happy this makes me if this is really in kali.
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McDeth187
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2006.11.03 23:44:00 -
[23]
Oh god yes.
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LVSOCOM
Minmatar
The Rat Pack
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Posted - 2006.11.03 23:49:00 -
[24]
Originally by: RobW1
Interdictors or bubbles, right?
Personally, I'd prefer mobile warp disruption bubble (the kind you anchor) DON'T pull ships out of warp to a different place. Reason being, if you can simply buy a bubble and anchor it, instead of training up a dedicated ship; which will you do?
Simply put, it gives interdictors an important role.
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VulkanXx
Minmatar
Original Black Plague
Blood of the Innocents
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Posted - 2006.11.03 23:50:00 -
[25]
Yes it's in, and it's awesome
Hopefully it'll STAY in, too........
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Ithildin
Gallente
The Corporation
The Corporation Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 00:38:00 -
[26]
As long as autopilot warps on 10km+, it's fine.
One concern is a warp to 0km on stations. A game ruiner is escape into stations. There simply is no way to work around that at all, it's not like we can pursue them and hit them in the face in the station cantina.
-
Am I in the coolest alliance or what? |
Porter Hadlend
Gallente
Righteous-Indignation
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 00:44:00 -
[27]
As of now you can absolutely instadock on Sisi.
I thought they might have put it in to just ease testing, but if this is the new trend, I suppose we pirates will have to adapt heh... I do find I catch a lot more people aligning rather than heading too gates.. and tbh most of my piracy is at belts.
I can see this being a problem for some alliances that have their token alt annoyance now able to insta jump/dock everywhere more than for pirates heh.
--------------
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DaveJ777
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Posted - 2006.11.04 01:05:00 -
[28]
Thank you CCP for killing all my tactical BMs!
Time to spend 10 mins remaking each BM thanks to the lag.
___________________________________________
I win eve!
EVE server status: |
Luric Vizjier
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 01:29:00 -
[29]
Argh, this makes me sad. Hope this is only for the sake of the test server.
-----------------------------------------------
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Zoxia
Gallente
University of Caille
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 01:45:00 -
[30]
And then the heavens were opened up and all was good 
This is great news and no doubt one of the best moves they could have done regarding this issue.
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Areconus
Caldari
Cereal Killerz
Chimaera Pact
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 01:58:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Areconus on 04/11/2006 01:58:17
Can you say, no more:
**********=====-------CITADEL FULL SET CHEAP!!!!!!!-------=====*****
yay
Gloria Stitz-
"Try not to bring reality in to these forums
Otherwise we might take the game seriously" |
Jenessa
D00M.
Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 02:02:00 -
[32]
I really can't complain about the changes on SiSi. Sure the instadock makes things a little tricky to nail people trying to escape, but in all honesty I get far more kills on gates/belts than I ever do near stations. That together with a pretty fairly thought out nerf on WCS (as in they dont penalise haulers/people transporting ships) means that so far Kali is looking pretty ****ed good.
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Ras Blumin
0utbreak
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 02:06:00 -
[33]
I hope that all old bms won't be useless :/
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MissileRus
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 02:21:00 -
[34]
would be great if they eventualy added skills for warping to 0km 
seperate skills for gates/stations/fields etc, that way they can tweak them if warping to 0km to a station doesnt work out they can change that skill and make it 5-8km or whatever at lvl 5 etc. but anyway skills > modules. dont get some warp to 0km module in the game it will make things worse. skills would be mutch more prefered by everyone then warp to 0km modules, its also better in every way possible.. 
---------------------------
4. i like pizza |
XoPhyte
Out Siders
Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 02:24:00 -
[35]
The warp to 0km is a nice feature. But I do hope that ccp will only disable (or remove) bookmarks that are set within a certain range of gates (like < 25km). As a lot of us have tacital bm's for sniping, covert ops etc. as well as bookmarks for secure cans, safespots as well.
I was suprised that even the dock feature warps you to 0km and insta docks you, but I guess if you are going to get rid of bookmarks, get rid of them all.
Originally by: Shamis Orzoz
Most people in eve would rather win than have a good fight 
|
MissileRus
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 02:30:00 -
[36]
Edited by: MissileRus on 04/11/2006 02:31:40
hmm i "think" BMs close to gates are the only BMs removed, i havent checked but i think someone said only gate BMs were gone. i think they get deleted/not loaded when you log in on sisi?
edit: misread  sry.. dunno if sniping BMs etc were gone too.
---------------------------
4. i like pizza |
Zoxia
Gallente
University of Caille
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 02:55:00 -
[37]
If your going to wipe BM's wipe em all. None of this oh but we should get to keep our this or that book marks.
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Firequill
Gallente
The Black Ops
Maelstrom Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 02:57:00 -
[38]
And there was much rejoycing
|
murder one
Gallente
CRICE Corporation
Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 03:00:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Firequill
And there was much rejoycing
This absolutely sucks. The biggest nerf to piracy of all time. Period.
Because I said so...
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DeTox MinRohim
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 03:02:00 -
[40]
It is very doubtful that they will remove them all by themselves as there is too much at stakes. POS, secured cans, safespots, etc...
But as all the G2G, S2G and Stations dock will be useless, I doubt anyone will have a problem deleting them of their Places.
Personally, I'll wait until it is confirmed that this will stay. 
------
My EVO Stuff
I am an Alt... get over it !
I take no responsability for your paranoia. |
Matrix Aran
Legio Immortalis
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 03:03:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Matrix Aran on 04/11/2006 03:03:58
Just to make things perfectly clear. As of the latest patch on the test server, all legacy bookmarks (read: bookmarks made on the current TQ server) will be unuseable. You can still create new bookmarks in kali anywhere in space even an insta to a gate. it simply means everything in your people and places once you patch is useless. Afterwords you can make as many bookmarks as you like, though obviously the need and thus load on the server of gate to gate bookmarks will be greatly reduced.
----
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DeTox MinRohim
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 03:06:00 -
[42]
Originally by: murder one
This absolutely sucks. The biggest nerf to piracy of all time. Period.
Maybe... but I'll probably enjoy to them having their XTo database shrink to XMo.
Less lag or processing ftw
------
My EVO Stuff
I am an Alt... get over it !
I take no responsability for your paranoia. |
Turq
Minmatar
GalacTECH Unlimited
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 03:14:00 -
[43]
Having BM's was a requirment to play in 0.0 lowsec, now more people will explore those area's, more targets.. and CCP's database will be a little bit faster. (okay a lot)
If this goes live it will be better for everyone, faster servers, more people exploring, downside as you noted.. pirates will need to adapt.
-sig- |
Luric Vizjier
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 03:36:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Turq
Having BM's was a requirment to play in 0.0 lowsec, now more people will explore those area's, more targets.. and CCP's database will be a little bit faster. (okay a lot)
If this goes live it will be better for everyone, faster servers, more people exploring, downside as you noted.. pirates will need to adapt.
It was never a "requirement" and now that it is so much easier to get into low sec, there is much less risk involved anymore. And as we all know, in Eve: Risk = Fun
-----------------------------------------------
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Dannek
Llama F5 and Associates
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 04:09:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Luric Vizjier
Originally by: Turq
Having BM's was a requirment to play in 0.0 lowsec, now more people will explore those area's, more targets.. and CCP's database will be a little bit faster. (okay a lot)
If this goes live it will be better for everyone, faster servers, more people exploring, downside as you noted.. pirates will need to adapt.
It was never a "requirement" and now that it is so much easier to get into low sec, there is much less risk involved anymore. And as we all know, in Eve: Risk = Fun
Well, if that's true, then shouldn't you be overjoyed, since you now have more personal risk in trying to make your piracy actually work?
Oh that's right, risk is only for the *targets* of pirates.
I am happy to hear about this simply because it's going to cut down on travel times.
--------------------------------------------------------
Working towards my own personal Dreadnought, one ISK at a time. |
0o0Preatorian0o0
Crest Tech
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 04:19:00 -
[46]
This sucks... How am I to snipe with insta docks and insta jumps everywhere?
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MeLoveYouLoooongTime
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 04:40:00 -
[47]
hoooray |
Kim Chee
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 04:49:00 -
[48]
I still think the accuracy of warp-ins should be tied to the size (mass) of the ship you fly. Tiny frigates should be able to jump right on top of something. Gigantic freighters full of lead bricks shouldn't be able to materialize within 10km of other objects. Titans should need to give planetary bodies 100km to avoid the gravity wells. :)
But... I'd rather have a level playing field with (virtual) instas for everyone, than the terabytes of bookmarks lagging us to our doom we see today.
hooray, progress!
|
XoPhyte
Out Siders
Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 04:57:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Kim Chee
hooray, progress!
Yeah, I agree, may not be perfect, but better then what it was.
Originally by: Shamis Orzoz
Most people in eve would rather win than have a good fight
|
Sam Nitram
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 05:12:00 -
[50]
lets face it it should have been this way all along. the gates and stations are in fixed orbits. Thier locations are well known so not being able to warp in close was a sad joke. The gatecampers arnt gonna be happy becouse now there gonna have to get off thier a$$ and do something. thier oh we can sit here not do anything and get rich is over. risk for reward. oops bob just came in everybody log. I like it
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TrippyX
The Syndicate Inc
Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 07:38:00 -
[51]
I really like it, but we do need to get to keep the BM's that aren't for gate to gate.. i bookmark locations that i find interesting as well, i bookmark stations where i have assets, i bookmark cans i got anchored in space for dropping my ratloot in..
I really like the "to 0km" option for gates, I LOVE IT!!! but as I stated above, i'd hate to lose all my non-g2g BM's
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Ather Ialeas
Amarr
Karjala Inc.
Freelancer Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 08:12:00 -
[52]
Actually from what I noticed you can't instadock to station from all angles. OK, the actual travel distance in those cases was less than 3 kilometers but it still isn't an instadock.
I personally like the fact that I don't need 1400 bookmarks to travel from empire to my 0.0 hideout. What I don't like is that I have to setup my giant secure can cache safespots again but tbh that's more of an annoyance than a problem.
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Julio Torres
Reaver Inc
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Posted - 2006.11.04 09:11:00 -
[53]
I love this change, but all pre-kali BM's reuined isn't acceptable.
Safespots, spyspots, secure can and hidden ships will be lost.
I cant even imagine the impact on fleet warfare, if you cant hide at a SS to reorganize or prepare for a attack
|
Alex Tremayne
Lyrus Associates
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 09:31:00 -
[54]
CCP have clearly wussed out.
All they had to do was remove any BMs within 150km of gates and prevent creation of new ones in that range. That was all that was required. Instas were not needed in the first place and placating all the lame idiots who whine about how travel times would be increased without a warp to 0 option is a grave error on their part.
They had the chance to do something great.
They chickened out. 
Lyrus Associates' Diplomat Of Last Resort |
Darius Shakor
Minmatar
Freelance Unincorporated
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 09:48:00 -
[55]
To all above supporting this or whining about it. History lesson:
In RMR testing they implimented this too. It was not inteanded as a feature for RMR though and was simply a quick test to see if they got some coding right and gauge the community reaction. So until a Dev confirms it is going to happen in Kali 1 (since they are already in feature freeze and this would be a feature) don't be surprised if it vanishes again for another few months.
They could just be testing the old code to see if it still works so they have less to do if and when the time is right to impliment this.
------
Shakor Clan Information Portal
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=3 |
Ithildin
Gallente
The Corporation
The Corporation Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 10:11:00 -
[56]
I've not been able to access my BMs on SiSi since they put Kali on the first build, so I wouldn't put too much into it. It might just be that they haven't mirrored them (the bookmarks).
-
Am I in the coolest alliance or what? |
Polaskii
Amarr
CyberDyne Industries
Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 11:01:00 -
[57]
Great News! Thamkz CCP
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Choran
Caldari
Agony Unleashed
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 11:17:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Ithildin
I've not been able to access my BMs on SiSi since they put Kali on the first build, so I wouldn't put too much into it. It might just be that they haven't mirrored them (the bookmarks).
You're probably right on this, and I hope you are. There must be hundres of millions of rows in the bookmarks table that would be mostly unnecessary on the test server. It probably saved them a couple terabytes in storage space by not mirroring them...heh.
|
Warnings
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 11:20:00 -
[59]
It's a good solution but you have a another ...
Store bookmarks on local, you don't break the market of bookmarks and you reduce lag server. (But, put a very good security ... Crypt BM with user/pass of the player for can't copy files for a other player and change at each patch the encryption.)
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Sean Dillon
Caldari
Privateers
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 11:27:00 -
[60]
CCP u SUCK ever THOUGH A TINY bit about what it does to pvp, empire wars? I would say 50+% of the kills done ingame happen at gates and stations. This thing simply adds god mode to the game.
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Oniko Sengir
Coreli Corporation
Corelum Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 11:28:00 -
[61]
Hurrah! No more lagging my computer to bits every time I open my bookmarks! 
______________________________________________________
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Ceanthar Cerbera
Minmatar
Lone Gunmen
Electus Matari
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 11:39:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Ceanthar Cerbera on 04/11/2006 11:50:02
Well this sucks! What have they accieved with this warp to 0?? I thought they were gonna remove instas!? This isnt removing instas this is making it so that everyone has instas!
The mechanics for "warp to beacon" is already in place and there is no problem in having the ship drop 15km away from the gate/station.
I really thought it was gonna be more "lets promote teamplay" and "prepare for the big nasty space" with convoys needed for travel unless youre in a fast ship.
Whats the problem with player made instas anyway? And why all this ******* fuss about it? Was it just lag issue or did CCP grow tired of people complaining because they couldnt make instas?
Congrats for making hunting of pirates even more diffiult. Now they dont even have to prep systems before they start. They have all instas already from every direction! ******* hell.. Actually its quite amusing
edit. ok I can agree to this change if dictor spheres are made real in low sec. maybe not all but say from 0.3 sec systems and down.
-----------------------------------------
For the liberation and safety of the matari people! |
Amira Silvermist
Yazata Spenta
Aegis Militia
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 11:57:00 -
[63]
About the old bookmarks: Yes, they dont work anymore but new ones stop to work too after logging off and on again so I think its just a bug.
I have to say that I am not sure if this "warp to 0" is a good change or a bad one...
|
xtreamer
Rampage Eternal
Ka-Tet
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 11:57:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Ceanthar Cerbera
Edited by: Ceanthar Cerbera on 04/11/2006 11:50:02
Well this sucks! What have they accieved with this warp to 0?? I thought they were gonna remove instas!? This isnt removing instas this is making it so that everyone has instas!
The mechanics for "warp to beacon" is already in place and there is no problem in having the ship drop 15km away from the gate/station.
I really thought it was gonna be more "lets promote teamplay" and "prepare for the big nasty space" with convoys needed for travel unless youre in a fast ship.
Whats the problem with player made instas anyway? And why all this ******* fuss about it? Was it just lag issue or did CCP grow tired of people complaining because they couldnt make instas?
Congrats for making hunting of pirates even more diffiult. Now they dont even have to prep systems before they start. They have all instas already from every direction! ******* hell.. Actually its quite amusing
edit. ok I can agree to this change if dictor spheres are made real in low sec. maybe not all but say from 0.3 sec systems and down.
_____________________________________
What made bob cross the rode? they had 3 to 1 ods :D
Sig removed, pleasse keep it within the 400x120 pixel and 24,000 byte limits, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus |
Uglyone
Deep Can Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 12:03:00 -
[65]
the question is however
will all bookmarks in a grid where a station/gate is be deleted or just the ones inside 100k of said station/grid.
lost of people got tactical bookmarks around alot of gates and stations wich would be really bad to loose.
can a dev or someone with a yellow bar confirm or deny this?
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Butter Dog
The Dead Miners Society
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 12:09:00 -
[66]
just wanted to add my voice to the majority about how great this is... I actually believe it will encourage a lot more PvP as people are not afraid to travel around without a set of instas
more people in lowsec/0.0 = more fun and more targets
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Joshua Foiritain
Gallente
Coreli Corporation
Corelum Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 12:12:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Butter Dog
more people in lowsec/0.0 = more fun and more targets
If you can catch em.
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[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Darius Shakor
Minmatar
Freelance Unincorporated
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 12:12:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Darius Shakor on 04/11/2006 12:13:04
The devs don't need to delete old bookmarks for istadocks and jumps because players will do that themselves if this feature does make it to release as they won't need them.
(Just an edit to say if this does make it in I would delete my BM's myself while laughing in hysterics knowing I don't have to sort through them for hours at a time anymore. I am sure I am not alone in this and the devs know this too.)
Remember guys this is the test server where things don't always go as planned. Just because your BM's are not working suddenly it doesn't mean it is intended or that the devs will delete your bookmarks or anything.
Hell, if they did do this intentionally it would most likely be so people don't use the bookmarks instead of the new 0km option, forcing people to test it. Could be any number of reasons beyond the doom and gloom being posted here.
------
Shakor Clan Information Portal
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=3 |
Olterin Fire
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 12:14:00 -
[69]
Ok, I have been lazy to read through this all, but I can say that all old bookmarks, though still there, are no longer of use (you just don't get the right-click menu when you try). You can make new ones and they work fine though (<-- info for all those still in doubt)
I see this is a problem for all the people with secure cans being anchored in safespots (I think I still have some hanging out in a system myself, will have to collect them again ) , everything else is easy enough to reconstruct
--------------------------------------------------
May the Jove be with you. |
Crozon
Crozon Corp
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 12:16:00 -
[70]
As someone who sells BM sets for a living this makes me sad
...but I won't stand in the way of progress. As it stands anyone with the isk can have instas for any region, giving the richer players a big advantage over poorer ones; this will even things out a little.
|
olyyy
Gallente
V I R I I
Center for Disease Creation
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 12:38:00 -
[71]
I'll start with some numbers. We did a little survey on french boards concerning the ideas on BMs from a devblog (http://forums.mondespersistants.com/showthread.php?t=141737)
Results were:
-76,29% for the 0km warp/15km autopilot solution (74 votes)
-13,40% for the no bms solution (13 votes)
-8,25% for no changes to the current system (8 votes)
-2,06% without opinion (2 votes)
Clearly, the solution of the 0km warp/15km autopilot had some positive echo and is an answer to most players' expectations as well as to the lag crippling the current gameplay (believe me, I hate having to open "people and places" on a fresh install of eve without my BMs folders).
I believe all old BMs should be deleted by ccp when kali is launched. It would make more sense than making them unusable.
I'd like to say I'm happy to be able now to move from regions to regions without a 4 hours BMs copying session. I hope to see kali hit TQ soon enough with this modification (although I fear the monstruous amount of bugs we'll get at the same time).
Men never lie more than before elections, during war and after hunting. |
Viktor Fyretracker
Caldari
Worms Corp
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 12:50:00 -
[72]
this is probally one of the greatest things possible, hopefully it goes live. it wont nerf pvp at all because you can just bubble 0.0 gates and in low sec the pirates can you know, hunt down their prey in the belts rather then wuss out and sniper the gates.
|
Alex Logan
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 12:58:00 -
[73]
Edited by: Alex Logan on 04/11/2006 13:01:22
I know that bms are killing the server and I agree that there has to be a solution...
But i was thinking more of a compromise rather than a warp to 0 option.
Gate to gate I guess warp to 0 is fine, but instas to station? From anywhere in space? Thats a little harsh, I didnt mind the 15k approach to a station... i felt it was some kind 'approach for docking' procedure.
I get enough smack talk from people when I solo pirate in low sec as it is, I can imagine it being a lot more when people insta in to the station from any random ss/planet/moon in space.
I think over half of my kills in low sec have been at stations or gate approach. People in belts are usually either stabbed up to the max or as often happens, you land about 40 - 50k away from them as theyre using longrange weps and they warp off. The only way to catch people now is going to be gate camping and praying theyre in cruiser size or above or theyre away. And gate camping is just dull, I roam when i pirate.
I agree we will see an increase in low sec traffic, and I agree thats a good thing. But, it's also a fact that a large slice of the playerbase are happy running missions and nothing more. Thats fine, I have no trouble with that. But this warp to 0 option from anywhere in space is effectively an invinciblity button for anyone in low sec. What happened to greater risk vs reward??
I know people argue that this may encourage more people to pvp, but in my experience the people who like pvp are doing it from the word go. And those who wish to avoid it are trying their best to do so.
This is the longest post ive ever made on the eve-o forums and this, im guessing, is because its the first time since I started playing the game that ccp have started testing on something im a little worried about... I can only hope there's a middle ground somewhere.
EDIT - On another note, bubbles aren't a solution, whether theyre allowed in low sec after this or not. Bubbles don't work solo, do we really want more blobbing?
|
Logan Xerxes
Shinra
Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 13:00:00 -
[74]
I like this change.
"Draw them in with the prospect of gain, take them by confusion."
-Sun Tzu |
Viktor Fyretracker
Caldari
Worms Corp
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 13:03:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Alex Logan
Edited by: Alex Logan on 04/11/2006 13:01:22
I know that bms are killing the server and I agree that there has to be a solution...
But i was thinking more of a compromise rather than a warp to 0 option.
Gate to gate I guess warp to 0 is fine, but instas to station? From anywhere in space? Thats a little harsh, I didnt mind the 15k approach to a station... i felt it was some kind 'approach for docking' procedure.
I get enough smack talk from people when I solo pirate in low sec as it is, I can imagine it being a lot more when people insta in to the station from any random ss/planet/moon in space.
I think over half of my kills in low sec have been at stations or gate approach. People in belts are usually either stabbed up to the max or as often happens, you land about 40 - 50k away from them as theyre using longrange weps and they warp off. The only way to catch people now is going to be gate camping and praying theyre in cruiser size or above or theyre away. And gate camping is just dull, I roam when i pirate.
I agree we will see an increase in low sec traffic, and I agree thats a good thing. But, it's also a fact that a large slice of the playerbase are happy running missions and nothing more. Thats fine, I have no trouble with that. But this warp to 0 option from anywhere in space is effectively an invinciblity button for anyone in low sec. What happened to greater risk vs reward??
I know people argue that this may encourage more people to pvp, but in my experience the people who like pvp are doing it from the word go. And those who wish to avoid it are trying their best to do so.
This is the longest post ive ever made on the eve-o forums and this, im guessing, is because its the first time since I started playing the game that ccp have started testing on something im a little worried about... I can only hope there's a middle ground somewhere.
EDIT - On another note, bubbles aren't a solution, whether theyre allowed in low sec after this or not. Bubbles don't work solo, do we really want more blobbing?
ahh but remember if this comes with Kali, most targets who ware fighting something even NPCs wont have stabs anymore because they wont want to loose their lockon range. makes your job easier as odds are even 1 point will now shut someone down.
|
Rod Blaine
Evolution
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 13:20:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Rod Blaine on 04/11/2006 13:21:32
There's two reasons that CCP haven't accounted for to make me absolutely disagree with implementation of this new 'warp to 0km':
1. Everyone in high sec that doesn't mind doing the odd logoffski is now actually totally invulnerable as long as he doesn't go afk. Add being in an NPC corp and we've got a pvp flag in effect in high sec from this day on.
NOT ******* GOOD
2. instadocking anywhere at any time should never be possible, period. It's been irritating since day one and should not be allowed.
CCP should not implement this option in high sec space, and should not allow warp to 0km for stations.
Old blog |
Harisdrop
Gallente
ClanKillers
Dusk and Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 13:49:00 -
[77]
The main reason I like it is cause I can now warp to can at 0m.
The efficiently of eve is now increased due travel was one of the worst parts of EVE.
I think the best part of EVE is not the carebear stuff but the PVP. You have made a new day for PVP.
p.s. I like the spelling checker!!!
Originally by: Tuxford
.....stuff... Btw I did mess a bit with tech 2 ammo, I'll post a bit about that later.
|
Joshua Foiritain
Gallente
Coreli Corporation
Corelum Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 13:54:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Harisdrop
The main reason I like it is cause I can now warp to can at 0m.
The efficiently of eve is now increased due travel was one of the worst parts of EVE.
I think the best part of EVE is not the carebear stuff but the PVP. You have made a new day for PVP.
p.s. I like the spelling checker!!!
Tbh faster travel times, longer fights and insta docking anywhere anytime will only increase the blob further 
-----
[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Butter Dog
The Dead Miners Society
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 13:56:00 -
[79]
Edited by: Butter Dog on 04/11/2006 13:57:10
Originally by: Rod Blaine
Edited by: Rod Blaine on 04/11/2006 13:21:32
There's two reasons that CCP haven't accounted for to make me absolutely disagree with implementation of this new 'warp to 0km':
1. Everyone in high sec that doesn't mind doing the odd logoffski is now actually totally invulnerable as long as he doesn't go afk. Add being in an NPC corp and we've got a pvp flag in effect in high sec from this day on.
NOT ******* GOOD
2. instadocking anywhere at any time should never be possible, period. It's been irritating since day one and should not be allowed.
CCP should not implement this option in high sec space, and should not allow warp to 0km for stations.
1) How does this make people invulnerable, exactly? Compared to someone who has a full set of instas they aquired before the copying nerf, for example?
2) You don't instadock, you land about 1.5km/2km away from dock point. But you can still make a instadock BM.
Nothing is really changing here, apart from everyone not needing 10,000 BM's and lagging the server to hell and back.
|
Kigyar
Gallente
Res Publica
Galactic Aphelion
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 13:57:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Kigyar on 04/11/2006 13:57:34
Why they don't use the already existing skill ?
like add to the "warp drive operation" skill a bonus <reduce by 3km the maximum "warp to" distance>
It's only 5 day to train it to lvl 5 not THAT much (think it will work everywhere). And the trial alts wouldn't profit of this system cuz for them without learnings it would be about 10 day on the 15 trial period.
I think it will be a good compromize between the available for all and nothing for all discussion.
|
Butter Dog
The Dead Miners Society
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 13:58:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Kigyar
Edited by: Kigyar on 04/11/2006 13:57:34
Why they don't use the already existing skill ?
like add to the "warp drive operation" skill a bonus <reduce by 3km the maximum "warp to" distance>
It's only 5 day to train it to lvl 5 not THAT much (think it will work everywhere). And the trial alts wouldn't profit of this system cuz for them without learnings it would be about 10 day on the 15 trial period.
I think it will be a good compromize between the available for all and nothing for all discussion.
All this does is introduce a pointless compulsory skill to the game, which *everyone* will train. Why bother?
|
Butter Dog
The Dead Miners Society
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 14:00:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
Originally by: Butter Dog
more people in lowsec/0.0 = more fun and more targets
If you can catch em.
You know as well as me, that anyone with a brain in 0.0 uses instas anyway, so what difference does it actually make?
More people, stab nerf... its all looking good.
|
Big Al
The Aftermath
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 14:01:00 -
[83]
Gate instas I can live with, station instas will ruin the game.
|
Butter Dog
The Dead Miners Society
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 14:04:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Big Al
Gate instas I can live with, station instas will ruin the game.
1) They are not quite instas, you land about 1.5km from docking range
2) Everyone already uses instadock BM's... so whats the difference?
|
Rod Blaine
Evolution
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 14:05:00 -
[85]
It's just that this makes a situation that is broken look like one that is offically intended.
And tbh, instadocking should go anywhere. This would be a chance to do something about it.
In the mean while, it looks like logging off is now no longer cheating, butmoved from "not done" to "totally acceptable since the **** griefing whiners got my wcs nerfed in Kali".
In hgih sec insta's+logoffski = invulnerability. At least untill now CCP could hide behind not being able to chance the logoffski (altho they easily could), and not having a good solution for the instas.
Now it seems they officially condone high sec invulnerability cheating. NPC corp (unchanged)+ 0km warpin (added)+ logoffski (unchanged)= condonging the broken situation.
Tbh, Kali looks promising now, but if CCP dont include tweaking of the logoff system in it then I lose my ast bit of faith in them tbh.
Old blog |
Rod Blaine
Evolution
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 14:11:00 -
[86]
btw, if warp to 0km doesnt work on stations noone is going to delete their instafolders. Surely CCP can figure that out by themselves. And wading through 10K bookmarks to delete all but the station instas ? I think not.
Old blog |
Peppy LePew
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 14:15:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Rod Blaine
It's just that this makes a situation that is broken look like one that is offically intended.
And tbh, instadocking should go anywhere. This would be a chance to do something about it.
In the mean while, it looks like logging off is now no longer cheating, butmoved from "not done" to "totally acceptable since the **** griefing whiners got my wcs nerfed in Kali".
In hgih sec insta's+logoffski = invulnerability. At least untill now CCP could hide behind not being able to chance the logoffski (altho they easily could), and not having a good solution for the instas.
Now it seems they officially condone high sec invulnerability cheating. NPC corp (unchanged)+ 0km warpin (added)+ logoffski (unchanged)= condonging the broken situation.
Tbh, Kali looks promising now, but if CCP dont include tweaking of the logoff system in it then I lose my ast bit of faith in them tbh.
I agree with you on the log off issue, but I believe you are barking up the wrong tree here. Instas are a separate issue, as are NPC corps. This particular change doesn't actually change much, but has a multitude of benefits to everyone if it does go live (the threads in the General discussion forum actually cover this in more depth).
As for the log off problem, they really need to get the server stable before adding risk to losing connection. But after that, I'm all for it.
|
Joshua Foiritain
Gallente
Coreli Corporation
Corelum Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 14:23:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Rod Blaine
btw, if warp to 0km doesnt work on stations noone is going to delete their instafolders. Surely CCP can figure that out by themselves. And wading through 10K bookmarks to delete all but the station instas ? I think not.
DROP TABLE 'user_bookmarks'
[Ok] [Cancel]
Problem solved.
Delete all bms, prevent bookmarks near stations/gates, allow people to warp to gates at 5km. Travel time improved, lag nerfed and balance within reason.
-----
[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
TomParad0x
Caldari
adeptus gattacus
Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 14:30:00 -
[89]
Originally by: murder one
Originally by: Firequill
And there was much rejoycing
This absolutely sucks. The biggest nerf to piracy of all time. Period.
So? This change is welcome IMO. It will hopefully sort out some of the lag due to the number of bookmarks.
Sig offline till i fix my domain... |
Peter Tordenskjold
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 14:49:00 -
[90]
There is no problem with piracy in the future with the new warp distance, because good pirates waiting behind a gate or catching someone out of the warp. A war in 0.0 is mostly a war to claim sovereignity not to destroy ships. A war in highsec will be nearly the same. I don't believe that a good pirate can't shoot someone or he is a lamer.
|
Dutarro
Kydance Radiant Industries
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 14:55:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Crozon
As someone who sells BM sets for a living this makes me sad
...but I won't stand in the way of progress. As it stands anyone with the isk can have instas for any region, giving the richer players a big advantage over poorer ones; this will even things out a little.
If this change happens, there is still a market for BM sets, just not instas. Everyone losing their safe spots, sniping points, etc. means you can make them new ones for a fee (and if they trust you). Also, with Exploration coming out there will be a market for explorers to sell BMs for the interesting places they discover.
*opinions stated are not necessarily those of my corporation or alliance |
Amira Silvermist
Yazata Spenta
Aegis Militia
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 15:20:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Butter Dog
1) They are not quite instas, you land about 1.5km from docking range
2) Everyone already uses instadock BM's... so whats the difference?
1.
It might not always be 0m but it certainly was never 1.5km when I tried it...
It was always close enough so sentry guns didn't even lock me.
2. Yes, people who were prepared could do that and that was bad. Now everybody can do it and thats even worse...
|
Butter Dog
The Dead Miners Society
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 15:48:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Rod Blaine
btw, if warp to 0km doesnt work on stations noone is going to delete their instafolders. Surely CCP can figure that out by themselves. And wading through 10K bookmarks to delete all but the station instas ? I think not.
There is no choice involved in this, you can't use the old BM's. Nothing happens when you click on them. They are just dead.
Why not get on the test server and experiment, rather than ramble on about stuff you don't really understand.
|
Paigan
Amarr
Katsu Corporation
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 15:48:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Amira Silvermist
Originally by: Butter Dog
1) They are not quite instas, you land about 1.5km from docking range
2) Everyone already uses instadock BM's... so whats the difference?
1.
It might not always be 0m but it certainly was never 1.5km when I tried it...
It was always close enough so sentry guns didn't even lock me.
2. Yes, people who were prepared could do that and that was bad. Now everybody can do it and thats even worse...
what you call "prepared" was an abuse in the first place and caused unnecessary server load.
A warp to 0 methode was missing from the beginning
( :-P Amira *gg*)
--
This game is still in beta stage |
LC Sulla
BGG
Freelancer Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 15:54:00 -
[95]
Warp to 0kms on the gate is good. Fleet ops would be horrible without instas (especially when you need to move 40 BS's to help take out a POS 30 jumps away). People just don't have that sort of time. I wouldn't even care if the 0km rule was applied gate-gate rather than from any point in a system (which actually makes this solution powerful than normal instas).
Don't have a problem with 15kms from station (and banning all BM's within 100km of a station).
Give and take.
|
Shadow Vice
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 16:23:00 -
[96]
I think the not being able to use old bookmarks is a bug because as you cnat right click the bookmarks you cant delete them either
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Amira Silvermist
Yazata Spenta
Aegis Militia
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 17:18:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Paigan
what you call "prepared" was an abuse in the first place and caused unnecessary server load.
A warp to 0 methode was missing from the beginning
( :-P Amira *gg*)
Ah, speaking of game mechanic abuse..
Hi Paigan
I am sure you noticed the word "bad" yes? Good, next point:
I very much doubt that it was missing from the beginning just because people are lazy. Yes I know it can be a pain the butt to travel long distances but anyone who has to do 30 jumps to attack a POS with a huge BS fleet does something wrong...
There is a reason that some ships are slower then others and not all reasons are tied to combat itself.
Originally by: Butter Dog
Why not get on the test server and experiment, rather than ramble on about stuff you don't really understand.
The bookmarks I created on the testserver yesterday are dead too...
Please dont throw around accusation solely based on speculations.
|
Butter Dog
The Dead Miners Society
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 17:27:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Amira Silvermist
The bookmarks I created on the testserver yesterday are dead too...
Please dont throw around accusation solely based on speculations.
Please point to the part of my post which was directing my comment at you?
|
mallina
Caldari
DeStInY.
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 17:27:00 -
[99]
Originally by: murder one
Originally by: Firequill
And there was much rejoycing
This absolutely sucks. The biggest nerf to piracy of all time. Period.
agreed
-----------
Turbulance |
Kire Hunted
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 17:31:00 -
[100]
everyone likes this update I personally hate it. first off all my old bookmarks are now completely worthless including the ones for safe spots. Gate camping in .1-1.0 is now basically impossible because every ship can just hit the gate and leave most camps in 0.0 aren't affected as pilots had instas there or they already use bubbles/interdictors. Not to mention the countless hours making those BMs or the isk spent to buy them just became worthless so that adds up to a ton of time and easily 200mil isk lost.
|
ChronoLynx
Caldari
Federation of Freedom Fighters
EVE Alliance9673
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 17:39:00 -
[101]
The warp to 0 is probably just for Sisi. I remember them doing the warp to 0 on chaos once, and on the other name for the test server right before shiva, I mean exodus came out.
Elitest Carebear with Fangs and Claws |
Boosted
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 17:43:00 -
[102]
I say leave things the way they are. If the server cannot take the hit of people making bookmarks, guess what, UPGRADE THEM! We're not forking out $15US a month to have parts of the game that we've spent countless hours on taken away in one fail swoop because a bunch of carebears want to travel in low sec without fear. Guess what, IT'S CALLED LOW SECURITY FOR A REASON! If you want to travel in it without worry, buy the set of region BM's, just like all the people that currently inhabit low security space had to.
Let BM's stay, just refine the copying process to use less server resources (I mean what, you're copying a region/constellation/system name, and an (x,y,z) coordinate point, why did it ever take so long in the first place?)
|
Naal Morno
ECP Rogues
Dusk and Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 17:46:00 -
[103]
Hmm....
I can already see EVE crashing first day of kali due to everyone deleting 1000s of BMs they have...
_________________________________________
Once I thought T2 BPO Lottery is a problem... Then I've become a part of problem and I relized that previously I was just plain jealous. |
Uglyone
Deep Can Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 18:08:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
Originally by: Rod Blaine
btw, if warp to 0km doesnt work on stations noone is going to delete their instafolders. Surely CCP can figure that out by themselves. And wading through 10K bookmarks to delete all but the station instas ? I think not.
DROP TABLE 'user_bookmarks'
[Ok] [Cancel]
Problem solved.
Delete all bms, prevent bookmarks near stations/gates, allow people to warp to gates at 5km. Travel time improved, lag nerfed and balance within reason.
that would not be good at all.
people do have cans in space and safespots.
|
Naal Morno
ECP Rogues
Dusk and Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 18:12:00 -
[105]
IMHO CCP Should make a fair warning news item about removing BMs... so that anybody having stuff they care for can retrieve it before Kali comes... Otherwise it will have to scanned for in the future which with new scanning system will be pretty reasonably easy anyway.
_________________________________________
Once I thought T2 BPO Lottery is a problem... Then I've become a part of problem and I relized that previously I was just plain jealous. |
wolfboy123
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 19:39:00 -
[106]
dudes dont u know? ... without pirates eve will be boring whats the accomplishment of finding a rare implant worth 400mill and then taking it to a station 30 jumps out without pirates? nothing eve will be too easy. new people wouldnt have anything to learn because it would be too laid back. pirates are what makes the universe of eve rolling . i can tell you all now this doesnt make me too happy.
|
|
Eldo Davip
Forum Moderator
Interstellar Services Department
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 21:13:00 -
[107]
There is a 12 page thread on this topic already. Please discuss this topic there.
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