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Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.11.04 16:29:00 - [151] Thank the masses screaming for default instas. So you can't sit 200km off a gate and shipe shuttles, that's too bad, but you can still pop anyone using autopilot, and you can hit people at belts and stations (0km is only for gates isn't it?). Maybe now lowsec will become the somewhat more dangerous place it should've been, and not the 'omg yay bottleneck lets snipe 500 people a day' place it is now. I don't think this will affect belt pirates. Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
T'Renn Vale Heavy Industries SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.04 16:38:00 - [152] Screw it. Let's just make PvP consensual, CCP. I mean - you've gotta protect your whining carebears and macro miners. Who cares that the non-pvp aspects of this game for those players who like to blow stuff up is PAPER THIN? You do very little for us content wise in that department already. There are ENTIRE CORPS who make their living off gate piracy in low sec. Doing this just takes away one more source of revenue for those players. Unbelievable. Does Kali have any features that don't blow? Any at all? To be honest I haven't seen a single one that isn't made of pure epic fail. -- Eh... 24k? I can't make a sig that doesn't suck and keep it under 24k. Oh well.
Riddick06	Posted - 2006.11.04 16:39:00 - [153] Originally by: Dark Shikari But most ships will warp off long before you can scramble them, generally. Remember, you can't use inties in low sec. yes u can, il even tell you how you let the bs aggro the sentry guns first then use the inty to insta scram the victim whilst it waits for the bs to get a lock after that it warps off and lets the bs destroy the prey.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2006.11.04 17:21:00 - [154] Originally by: Merciless1 You all get an "F" fpr reading comprihension(sp?). My argument is not for bookmarks, it's against bm's AND warp to 0, I wan't both gone. I keep getting the some old carebear bs. "you want to gank noobs and haulers and snipe you griefer bastard blah blah blah". None of this is true, I want running away to be harder, If you come into low-sec you should come prepared to defend your self, sure some may get away, but right now it's too many. It's just too easy to run. I want good fights with experienced ppl but I'll still shoot at anything that moves. Give us a percentage. What is your too many? 10%, 20% 50%? Standard failure of a predator is 90% in RL. And that is the failure on attack. If you factor the preys sighted by the predator and the ones killed it is orders of magnitudo less. You fell that if you see someone on local you have the divine right to be able to lock him and fight with him so you are counting all the ones that evade even before getting targetted as a failed hunt. I feel that someone raking 20 PC kills in a day means something is broken. To be honest I feel that pirates have an life easy enough. If your fights where even remotely balanced you wouldn't be capable to get enough money to maintain your lifestile (losing a ship every 5 fight will crippel rapidly your wallet). So pirates want soft and easy targets and have a good number of them. Now your life will be a little harder if pirating in low security as your prey has better chanches to get to a supposed refuge. But it will become a little easiier too as warp stabilizers are becoming less useful, scanning much more usueful. All in all I feel that the balance will stay about the same, you gain somewere, you lose somewere. Unless you feel you need to gain only it seem acceptable.
Scoundrelus Finite Horizon The Red Skull	Posted - 2006.11.04 17:30:00 - [155] Originally by: Ginger Magician Edited by: Ginger Magician on 04/11/2006 12:35:01 These changes are extremely worrying for the future of EVE imo. Warp to 0km will undoubtedly make piracy far harder and together with the stabs changes these are massive and unnecessary changes to game mechanics. Most casual players dont have the time or the inclination to jump through 20 hoops just to get a fight.Making it so easy for targets to dock or jump out to get away from pvp will just lead to continual frustation and boredom. Many new MMO's are scheduled for release in 2007.Let us all hope that these changes dont signal the beginning of the end for EVE. Less pvp=less fun and less subscribers. The pathetic npc content is no match for the pvp side and Eve will not survive without it. Can I have your stuff? You can keep the stabs. =============================================== We are Watching You.
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Worms Corp	Posted - 2006.11.04 17:39:00 - [156] gate camping was lame anyway, no major loss and in 0.0 there is bubbles and dictors.
Areconus Caldari Cereal Killerz Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.11.04 19:09:00 - [157] Originally by: VulkanXx It's kind of funny, everyone that whines has yet to come up with a viable alternative. And for the record, this is no different than having instas, and thus your chances of catching a target are still the same as they currently are in TQ. To be honest, you will still be able to catch noobs for those precious killmails, too. Because autopilot only warps to 15k, and most noobs tend to use autopilot. Infact, I doubt that they'd ever find out warp to 0 existed in the first place, for a great while. Maybe you guys should just try belt pirating, for once, instead of gate sniping 24/7. It's actually challenging, sometimes, and alot more fun. Albeit maybe less profitable... Did anybody even read my reply on the first page!? Gloria Stitz- "Try not to bring reality in to these forums Otherwise we might take the game seriously"
Too Kind	Posted - 2006.11.04 19:44:00 - [158] Edited by: Too Kind on 04/11/2006 19:48:48 Edited by: Too Kind on 04/11/2006 19:45:26 The unsafety while approaching the gate is also something that added tension to the game: 'Will they catch me, before I reach the gate ?' Well, with instas that factor was reduced and with warp-to-zero you don't have to care about it at all and just go, where you want to go. I think the occasional gatecamp is part of the game to introduce some danger. I rather would have nerfed sniping by boosting the sentry ranges or something like that. If there were no players to camp gates, I'd let npcs occasionally do it. Close range. edit: Fear and pain is supposed to be part of the game. Gives people something to deal with and let's them feel good, if they survive such a situation. -------------------------- Post with your main !!!111
Godar Marak Amarr Return Of Red Dawn	Posted - 2006.11.04 19:57:00 - [159] Originally by: DefJam101 Any pirate who says this ruins EVE is an idiot. Gatecamping/stationcamping is boring and, yah, very boring. Makes money, yes, boring, yes. If all you do is gatecamp your not a pirate.... AHRRRRG! Get the hell off my internet! -------------------- \0/\0/\0/\0/\0/ Cant we all just get along? Wheres EVE heading?
Nerf Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.04 20:09:00 - [160] Originally by: Amp Run I'm not a pirate. I am a casual player. I helped beta test eve,left came back, left, back again. Their is a logic to warp to 0km - why can't your ship be able to do that BUT....its a very bad move. This will remove and ruin a major aspect of the game - traveling and the 'sense' of distance. You need to plan and know your routes. You need make bookmarks (or buy them) - it adds a maybe tedious but thrilling and important aspect to this game. Take EQ2 - you can transport yourself almost anyplace in that 'world' buy buying a ticket or fly using a mount (like buying a ticket) - it ruined the game (not that it was great to begin with). I bet CCP is looking at the options - 0km warp will bring more people to low-sec space and remove the problem of BM copying DONT DO IT, please. You will ruin a major game mechanic. This is not about pirates (I am not one). I can see the balance in stacking penalities with wcs so you might not fit them as often. Anyone do the Fade to EC / Torr run without BM's - in particuler when you have something you dont want to loose- that will be gone in part. /signed a million times (although I quit EQ2 before any of that even mattered) Personally, my vote is for the complete removal of BMs within 300 kilometers of gates/stations. I'd much, much, much rather have a much harsher and deadlier environment than ANYTHING like this. It's just a bandaid fix for the real problem, which is abuse of the bookmark system. Signature graphic removed - please email us to find out why (include a link to the graphic in question) - Jacques([email protected])

jokerb Caldari FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.04 20:11:00 - [161] Originally by: murder one Warp to 0km is the single worst nerf to piracy in the history of Eve. I'd say PVP in general, but piracy in particular. You can't use bubbles and dictors in low sec. You can't use them in empire in empire wars. I make my ISK by killing other players since ratting simply takes too much time for too little reward isk/hour wise (and yes, I rat in -1.0 true security systems. It's still crap ISK/hour). The majority of players I end up killing are at gates or stations. No, I don't gate/station camp. It's just that the players FLEE to the gates/stations hoping beyond hope that the guns will save them from me. They never do. Warp to 0km will completely negate any chance of me being able to kill these players successfully in Kali. They will always be able to escape. Every time. Without fail. Just catch them on the other side you say? The other side of WHAT? A jumpgate that leads into a high sec system where I'll get Concorded? The other side of a station interior? In one simple stroke CCP has completely destroyed the way I play Eve. I'm sure most people who are pirates and PVPers won't think the change is too extreme or will be too critical of it, until it starts to sink in over the next few months once Kali goes live and they keep having kill after kill after kill escape from them, just like they do now when players use tons of stabs. If this change goes live it will cripple solo PVP as we know it, the other changes like HP etc. not withstanding. (Which is also a mistake IMO, but that's for another thread.) A big NO to "warp to 0km". Here's why I think it won't be as bad. Most of the fish in the barrel AFK fly. AP doesn't take you to warp to 0. Once people wake and realie that this is an option I think the invulnerability timers should probably disappear, lag or no lag, too bad. Low sec = death sec imo. To clarify for those non-shootie shootie types, once you warp in currently there is a lag/latency inspired safety timer, causes invulnerability to the target ship. This should probably be removed. Thus allowing fast target locks and gang gate camps to function with some ability. Either that or allow bubbles in low security space
Tobias Sjodin Caldari Ore Mongers Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.04 20:19:00 - [162] Originally by: DefJam101 Any pirate who says this ruins EVE is an idiot. Gatecamping/stationcamping is boring and, yah, very boring. Makes money, yes, boring, yes. If all you do is gatecamp your not a pirate.... WTS: Clue. [ore mongers, recruiting]
Dannek Llama F5 and Associates	Posted - 2006.11.04 20:54:00 - [163] HAH HAH! SUCK IT PIRATES! Your risk vs reward arguments have finally come home to roost, but now it is YOU who are being subjected to more risk! (Whereas the reward is more people going out into 0.0 because they don't have to find sets of bookmarks anymore) Your target selection is richer, but now your targets are more elusive. -------------------------------------------------------- Working towards my own personal Dreadnought, one ISK at a time.
bunghole1	Posted - 2006.11.04 21:04:00 - [164] Edited by: bunghole1 on 04/11/2006 21:10:57 Quote: More people willing to go to low sec AND more targers for pirates AND less people in Hi Sec AND less server lag AND a balancing answer to the stab nerf AND a way to improve the profitability of trade leading to balancing of item prices...amongst other things. FTW .
Caerleus Board of Twenty	Posted - 2006.11.04 21:15:00 - [165] The warp to 0km option not only changes the pirates way of life, but will also affect all Empire wars, mercenary operations and anti piracy too. It basically affects each and every person in Eve, so it shouldnt just be left to the pirates to comment. CCP are changing the economy in favour of Low Sec and 0.0. By changing Rogue Drone loot, they will be depriving high sec of an easy method of obtaining 'cheap' minerals, especially when you think of isogen and higher. Now, people will need to low sec mine to either create the supply, or suffer from increased prices from lack of supply. With this, one would hope that with the inclusion of 0km warps, more people will be less afraid to go into low sec/0.0. Eve has turned from a pvp orientated game towards a ISK/Possessions centric game as peopel now seek out the best ships to run missions (for reference, see how many people ran lvl4's with carriers) and actively seek to protect those ships from destruction. Also, GTC's have expanded upon this,as people selling them to raise ISK now feel that ships/equipment/goals have been financed by RL money and have even less reason to want to see their investment destroyed. Fortunately, there are still large groups of people that do indulge in pvp, both consensual and non consensual. Unfortunately, they are no longer in the majority if you go by the simplest available yardstick, which would be the sheer bulk of people living in high sec. Yes, warp to 0km will affect everyone , good and bad. There are as many benefits to pvp'rs as there are disadvantages. Of course...it will be interesting to see if CCP do come up with some form of natural variation for jumps such that there is a form of risk involved. My personal opinion is that CCP created the warp to 0km ability on Sinq and deleted the ability to warp to previous bookmarks as a way of allowing more people to access the server, which has, I'm presuming, a much smaller database server. After all, it makes no sense to blanket wipe all BM's seeing as this also wipes out safe's, scout points, snipe points, cargo can bm's, roid bm's and so much more. I wait to see a final installment evolve. Eve is like a new girlfriend - you know its going down at some point, its just when and for how long.
Ginger Magician Minmatar OctoberSnow Corp	Posted - 2006.11.04 21:26:00 - [166] Edited by: Ginger Magician on 04/11/2006 21:28:08 Edited by: Ginger Magician on 04/11/2006 21:27:36 Originally by: Scoundrelus Originally by: Ginger Magician Edited by: Ginger Magician on 04/11/2006 12:35:01 These changes are extremely worrying for the future of EVE imo. Warp to 0km will undoubtedly make piracy far harder and together with the stabs changes these are massive and unnecessary changes to game mechanics. Most casual players dont have the time or the inclination to jump through 20 hoops just to get a fight.Making it so easy for targets to dock or jump out to get away from pvp will just lead to continual frustation and boredom. Many new MMO's are scheduled for release in 2007.Let us all hope that these changes dont signal the beginning of the end for EVE. Less pvp=less fun and less subscribers. The pathetic npc content is no match for the pvp side and Eve will not survive without it. Can I have your stuff? You can keep the stabs. NO. And despite your pathetic attempts to flame every post I ever make on forums u will never have my reputation kills status or my isk either. Enjoy kiling your rifters in belts after Kali anyway noob
Hillary Rodham	Posted - 2006.11.04 21:35:00 - [167] Originally by: murder one Warp to 0km is the single worst nerf to piracy in the history of Eve. I'd say PVP in general, but piracy in particular. You can't use bubbles and dictors in low sec. You can't use them in empire in empire wars. I make my ISK by killing other players since ratting simply takes too much time for too little reward isk/hour wise (and yes, I rat in -1.0 true security systems. It's still crap ISK/hour). The majority of players I end up killing are at gates or stations. No, I don't gate/station camp. It's just that the players FLEE to the gates/stations hoping beyond hope that the guns will save them from me. They never do. Warp to 0km will completely negate any chance of me being able to kill these players successfully in Kali. They will always be able to escape. Every time. Without fail. Just catch them on the other side you say? The other side of WHAT? A jumpgate that leads into a high sec system where I'll get Concorded? The other side of a station interior? In one simple stroke CCP has completely destroyed the way I play Eve. I'm sure most people who are pirates and PVPers won't think the change is too extreme or will be too critical of it, until it starts to sink in over the next few months once Kali goes live and they keep having kill after kill after kill escape from them, just like they do now when players use tons of stabs. If this change goes live it will cripple solo PVP as we know it, the other changes like HP etc. not withstanding. (Which is also a mistake IMO, but that's for another thread.) A big NO to "warp to 0km". Cry me a river...
Too Kind	Posted - 2006.11.04 21:42:00 - [168] Originally by: Caerleus Eve has turned from a pvp orientated game towards a ISK/Possessions centric game as peopel now seek out the best ships to run missions (for reference, see how many people ran lvl4's with carriers) and actively seek to protect those ships from destruction. Also, GTC's have expanded upon this,as people selling them to raise ISK now feel that ships/equipment/goals have been financed by RL money and have even less reason to want to see their investment destroyed. So eve is becoming wow in space and needs to change game mechanics for stupid people, who invest more and more RL money into virtual assets. If I hear that, I like to see even more stuff destroyed. Originally by: Caerleus Fortunately, there are still large groups of people that do indulge in pvp, both consensual and non consensual. Unfortunately, they are no longer in the majority if you go by the simplest available yardstick, which would be the sheer bulk of people living in high sec. People living in high-sec... Cut away the trade alts etc., cut away the newbies and players, who won't stay long in eve anyway, then I think the picture looks different. I don't believe that many people stay 3 years in high-sec and run missions all the time with their main. I mean sorry, but EVE isn't the best game on the market, if you just want to do PvE missions. Can't believe that the majority of long-time players do that. That might be enough for 7 months, that's also why the average EVE player only stays that long. If you are a mission ***** and like nothing else, it's really time to leave after 7 months. -------------------------- Post with your main !!!111
Lord WarATron Amarr Out Siders Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.04 21:49:00 - [169] I was planning on readying every post on this thread - but I gave up half way though. What a bunch of half assed logic is this - "I cannot pirate as noobs can warp to 0km"? Exceuse me! More noobs will be entering lowsec to rat and mine now, as the main reason they dont is perceaved fear of instant death upon entering a 0.4 system. - This thing..... Called a scanner will now be the pirates true friend, and the fact that everyone has a built in "insta" will encorage MORE people in low sec, and not less! The only people who lose out are gate snipers. --- Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour FREE
murder one Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.04 22:05:00 - [170] The way things are looking currently, pirating is probably going to be reduced to high sec ganking and bait/switch gang ganks of mission runners that are also in high sec. "Warp to 0km" (W0km) isn't going to 'bring more people to low sec'. At least not any that will present target opportunities. Players (carebears) won't go into low sec unless there is no other option. As long as there are viable options in high sec, they will stay there. With the sharp increase in cost of T2 modules and equipment ratting is no longer as lucative as it used to be. Killing players is the best form of ISK production. As bad as this change is for piracy in general, it's worse for the 0.0 alliances. Since basically no one travels around AFK in 0.0 you'll have almost no chance to catch players in interceptors, frigates, interdictors and other fast craft, as well as most recons etc. I'll basically be able to fly myself into the heart of BoB space in a shuttle with little to no worries about whether or not they can catch me. With no preperation, no intel, no nothing. There has been talk of alliance gate guns to protect systems in 0.0. What's the point if you have W0km? Because I said so...

Sadist Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.11.04 22:05:00 - [171] The OP just asked me to post in his thread, so that's what I'm doing. As for the opinion - BUHU murder one (aka BellumEternus). I hope this change greifs you into oblivion. òòòòòòòòòòòò VIP member of the [23] Quote: - Numbers alone do not win a battle - No, but I bet they help.
murder one Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.04 22:06:00 - [172] Originally by: Sadist The OP just asked me to post in his thread, so that's what I'm doing. As for the opinion - BUHU murder one (aka BellumEternus). I hope this change greifs you into oblivion. \o/ sadist posted in my thread \o/ :p Because I said so...
Nardon Gallente	Posted - 2006.11.04 22:12:00 - [173] This thread is hilarious! Alot of posters seem to miss the point of the OP completely. He never stated that gate camping would be nerfed(seems he could not care less about gate camps!) but that chasing people is more or less out of the equation as a warp to 0 would allow them to jump/dock instantly. So all the "camp the other side" posts....ROFL. That aside I wonder why everyone reacts like the sky is falling. That warp to 0 is on the TEST server. And there is a really good reason that it is enabled there. This server really is under heavy load. So disabling bookmarks first and givin' the warp to 0 instead is just to relieve sisi. I doubt that it will go live...though I might be wrong. :P
Zipp0ny Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2006.11.04 22:13:00 - [174] So I felt the urge to reply on this topic, I think that the warp to 0km is lame... All because empire wars will change dramitcly... as well as low-sec pirating its nice when a target doesn't have instas threw low-sec, but now it's gonna give every nano-hauler/stabs pilot a way to run threw low-sec like its Jita... People need to be scared of low-sec. It told me in my tutorial... Negative to this warp to 0.. -zipp0ny
Sigurd Ross	Posted - 2006.11.04 22:14:00 - [175] Yessir, nothing matches the spirit of space piracy more than some guy sitting on his ass, inexplicably out-ranging the sentry guns there, F1-F8ing everyone that passes by. Except, perhaps, the wonderful metagaming quasi-exploit called "instas" to bypass them. There was a reason that bookmarks had a built-in 15km distance from dropoff point, you know. So, if this upsets some lazyass gatecampers and also rids the game of bookmark-weenies, I have only one thing to express: \o/
turnschuh Eye of God	Posted - 2006.11.04 22:16:00 - [176] YARRR finally lowsec nubbies need to be a bit more creative to get some kills
Ginger Magician Minmatar OctoberSnow Corp	Posted - 2006.11.04 22:19:00 - [177] Originally by: Nardon This thread is hilarious! Alot of posters seem to miss the point of the OP completely. He never stated that gate camping would be nerfed(seems he could not care less about gate camps!) but that chasing people is more or less out of the equation as a warp to 0 would allow them to jump/dock instantly. So all the "camp the other side" posts....ROFL. That aside I wonder why everyone reacts like the sky is falling. That warp to 0 is on the TEST server. And there is a really good reason that it is enabled there. This server really is under heavy load. So disabling bookmarks first and givin' the warp to 0 instead is just to relieve sisi. I doubt that it will go live...though I might be wrong. :P There is no doubt that warp to 0km is being seriously considered to be implemented on TQ. Oveur himself has stated that it is his preferred option to solve the bookmark crisis although there is apparently much disagreement even within CCP regarding this iussue. If the lag problem cannot be solved by introduction of more hardware as seems to be the case the removal of isntas would appear the only other option to reduce lag on TQ .Personally I would like to see this tested in high sec first - if empire wars become pointless then the results of implementation in low sec would become obvious.
Benefactor	Posted - 2006.11.04 22:19:00 - [178] Edited by: Benefactor on 04/11/2006 22:20:18 On my (long forgotten) original character, back when EVE first put in sentry guns at the gates (oh ****, don't remind me, I was flying an Iteron as a "mining ship!") pirates didn't even have to stack overpowered sensor booster modules. They just tanked the sentries! Now, with the hitpoint buffs coming in, surely real pirates can take a few hits while dishing them out. Right? RIGHT? Naaaaw, I guess being a "pirate" means having everything handed to you, easy-mode, "jedi" style, then insta-ing out the second there might actually be some mutally-engaged PVP. Kind of like Ginger Magician.
Benefactor	Posted - 2006.11.04 22:20:00 - [179] Speak of the devil! Naw, you're not that bad. Just fun to poke at. Better luck next time on my Prophecy.
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2006.11.04 22:26:00 - [180] Originally by: turnschuh YARRR finally lowsec nubbies need to be a bit more creative to get some kills Ahhh yes, its not like everyone and their kid sister docks/safespot/warp to pos as soon as anyone with a negtaive sec status enters the system N=R* x fp x ne x fl x Fi x fc x L



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