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WoW refugees and the future of EVE

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GenericForumAlt 1267389 State War Academy Caldari State 0	Posted - 2015.04.29 18:47:19 - [1] - Quote I've been seeing a lot more complaining than usual about the WoW refugees recently. Seems it spiked when CCP announced permanent ship skins. The people who are so quick to complain about how entitled the wow community is are in a way entitled themselves. CCP is a company and making the game more appealing or easier gets subs. I'm in a new player friendly corp in nullsec and our numbers have been swelling with people completely new to EVE, its almost 2 a day at this point. We don't get vets unsubbing and most are happy with the changes that are happening. EVE isn't "your" sandbox its "a" sandbox, yeah yeah my 15 dollars a month blah blah same argument the people in WoW use. I think its time to come to terms with the fact that EVE Online is not the same game it was 10 years ago and it will never be. Ship skins, clothing, refined UI some of the most heated topics recently are all massive revenue drivers for other companies. Of course CCP is going to add them and to think they won't try to make revenue because of the vocal minority bitching about it on the forums is just idiotic. CCP isn't going to hold their game and company profits back because you feel dissatisfied with a change that has no impact on gameplay, get over it.
Frostys Virpio The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc 1744	Posted - 2015.04.29 18:52:19 - [2] - Quote GenericForumAlt 1267389 wrote: I've been seeing a lot more complaining than usual about the WoW refugees recently. Seems it spiked when CCP announced permanent ship skins. The people who are so quick to complain about how entitled the wow community is are in a way entitled themselves. CCP is a company and making the game more appealing or easier gets subs. I'm in a new player friendly corp in nullsec and our numbers have been swelling with people completely new to EVE, its almost 2 a day at this point. We don't get vets unsubbing and most are happy with the changes that are happening. EVE isn't "your" sandbox its "a" sandbox, yeah yeah my 15 dollars a month blah blah same argument the people in WoW use. I think its time to come to terms with the fact that EVE Online is not the same game it was 10 years ago and it will never be. Ship skins, clothing, refined UI some of the most heated topics recently are all massive revenue drivers for other companies. Of course CCP is going to add them and to think they won't try to make revenue because of the vocal minority bitching about it on the forums is just idiotic. CCP isn't going to hold their game and company profits back because you feel dissatisfied with a change that has no impact on gameplay, get over it. Catering to the same player base as most other MMO is not a safe bet. Look at all the wow killers...
Col Arran Col and Friends Inc. 192	Posted - 2015.04.29 18:53:52 - [3] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Catering to the same player base as most other MMO is not a safe bet. Look at all the wow killers... Normally I would agree with this sentiment but if you look at it they all tried to kill wow with games that when you stand back and look at it, were basically wow. I think EVE is in a bit of a different position here or else I would agree with your viewpoint.
DaReaper Net 7 1980	Posted - 2015.04.29 18:54:40 - [4] - Quote i don;t mind some of the changes. the learning curve in eve is steep, but giving someone more then a dogy paddle before tossing them intot he deep end is good. And more wow players, more people to shoo tin the face. Eve has room to devlope in ways to attract people without losing itself. The hot red head who will rip your balls off if you **** her off, can change her dress if she wishes.. or put on makeup.. but she will still rip your balls off. as long as eve stays single shard, uninstanced, open world, and dark. she will be fine. you can dull some of the edges for noobs, and still keep her core OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
Freya Sertan Tyrell Heavy Industries 63	Posted - 2015.04.29 19:02:28 - [5] - Quote The more players in EvE the better for the future of the game, period. More players = more money = more content = more people to shoot in the face. Come WoW refugees, come to the darkness. Come, see what online gaming REALLY is.
d0cTeR9 Astro Technologies SpaceMonkey's Alliance 150	Posted - 2015.04.29 19:04:34 - [6] - Quote Freya Sertan wrote: The more players in EvE the better for the future of the game, period. More players = more money = more content = more people to shoot in the face. Come WoW refugees, come to the darkness. Come, see what online gaming REALLY is. Agreed.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 22399	Posted - 2015.04.29 19:06:00 - [7] - Quote We're the top of the MMO food chain. If the dumbest, but still experienced EVE players joined WoW they'd cry as well. We'd own them. Entitlement.... lol It's Elitism! I wish you a slow, agonising death with screams and tears of pain and horror. Have everything you posess taken away from you. Most importantly ... yourself. Corpses4Drifters
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE 1082	Posted - 2015.04.29 19:06:17 - [8] - Quote I'm sorry but I guess I don't get what point you are trying to make here? honestly I see mostly praise, there is some criticism but nearly all of what I have seen is deserved. And maybe a few "waah! damage control icon change" but I half see those as a joke. Overall I think CCP is doing a great job, the new release schedule worried me a bit at first, but so far they have been delivering a bunch of stuff each time and most of it is good. I saw a great post the other day about how CCP had 4 major problems going on at the same time and that is why the summer of rage happened. @ChainsawPlankto
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 22400	Posted - 2015.04.29 19:08:28 - [9] - Quote DaReaper wrote: i don;t mind some of the changes. the learning curve in eve is steep, but giving someone more then a dogy paddle before tossing them intot he deep end is good. And more wow players, more people to shoo tin the face. Eve has room to devlope in ways to attract people without losing itself. The hot red head who will rip your balls off if you **** her off, can change her dress if she wishes.. or put on makeup.. but she will still rip your balls off. as long as eve stays single shard, uninstanced, open world, and dark. she will be fine. you can dull some of the edges for noobs, and still keep her core Dude... I'm blonde right now. :p I wish you a slow, agonising death with screams and tears of pain and horror. Have everything you posess taken away from you. Most importantly ... yourself. Corpses4Drifters
Freya Sertan Tyrell Heavy Industries 64	Posted - 2015.04.29 19:10:32 - [10] - Quote Solecist Project wrote: DaReaper wrote: i don;t mind some of the changes. the learning curve in eve is steep, but giving someone more then a dogy paddle before tossing them intot he deep end is good. And more wow players, more people to shoo tin the face. Eve has room to devlope in ways to attract people without losing itself. The hot red head who will rip your balls off if you **** her off, can change her dress if she wishes.. or put on makeup.. but she will still rip your balls off. as long as eve stays single shard, uninstanced, open world, and dark. she will be fine. you can dull some of the edges for noobs, and still keep her core Dude... I'm blonde right now. :p Yeah. I'm the hot redhead.

Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 22400	Posted - 2015.04.29 19:11:38 - [11] - Quote AWWW .... cutey. ;) I wish you a slow, agonising death with screams and tears of pain and horror. Have everything you posess taken away from you. Most importantly ... yourself. Corpses4Drifters
Frostys Virpio The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc 1744	Posted - 2015.04.29 19:16:36 - [12] - Quote Solecist Project wrote: We're the top of the MMO food chain. If the dumbest, but still experienced EVE players joined WoW they'd cry as well. We'd own them. Entitlement.... lol It's Elitism! Also: lol npc coward, go back to wow. I really hope you don't really believe what you typed...
Kiandoshia Applied Anarchy SpaceMonkey's Alliance 2261	Posted - 2015.04.29 19:25:38 - [13] - Quote We're like the masterrace of the masterrace?
Etaine O Conghaile 2	Posted - 2015.04.29 19:25:45 - [14] - Quote DaReaper wrote: i don;t mind some of the changes. the learning curve in eve is steep, but giving someone more then a dogy paddle before tossing them intot he deep end is good. And more wow players, more people to shoo tin the face. Eve has room to devlope in ways to attract people without losing itself. The hot red head who will rip your balls off if you **** her off, can change her dress if she wishes.. or put on makeup.. but she will still rip your balls off. as long as eve stays single shard, uninstanced, open world, and dark. she will be fine. you can dull some of the edges for noobs, and still keep her core O.o pew pew
DaReaper Net 7 1985	Posted - 2015.04.29 19:26:49 - [15] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Solecist Project wrote: We're the top of the MMO food chain. If the dumbest, but still experienced EVE players joined WoW they'd cry as well. We'd own them. Entitlement.... lol It's Elitism! Also: lol npc coward, go back to wow. I really hope you don't really believe what you typed... tough it is kinda true. i joined another game a few years ago and tried it. i would up killing someone and going 'great wheres my loot? what do you mean he keeps his crap? then what was the point? xp? pish" OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
Luna Arindale Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Curatores Veritatis Alliance 75	Posted - 2015.04.29 19:30:35 - [16] - Quote Cosmetic items are inherently harmless, atleast with these ship skins people can actually see them and they aren't locked down to character portraits. However while I might profit off of it eventually, a $25 something ship skin for a frigate is a bit crazy.
Freya Sertan Tyrell Heavy Industries 66	Posted - 2015.04.29 19:32:32 - [17] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Solecist Project wrote: We're the top of the MMO food chain. If the dumbest, but still experienced EVE players joined WoW they'd cry as well. We'd own them. Entitlement.... lol It's Elitism! Also: lol npc coward, go back to wow. I really hope you don't really believe what you typed... People who play EvE have probably played WoW and realized that the candy coated, pastel world of Azeroth is a joke. There is no actual conflict, no reason to even be there, really. The players in EvE make the game what it is. We ARE the apex of online gaming; especially when compared against the competition.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 22400	Posted - 2015.04.29 19:33:02 - [18] - Quote DaReaper wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Solecist Project wrote: We're the top of the MMO food chain. If the dumbest, but still experienced EVE players joined WoW they'd cry as well. We'd own them. Entitlement.... lol It's Elitism! Also: lol npc coward, go back to wow. I really hope you don't really believe what you typed... tough it is kinda true. i joined another game a few years ago and tried it. i would up killing someone and going 'great wheres my loot? what do you mean he keeps his crap? then what was the point? xp? pish" Exactly. EVE was the first ever MMO I tried, because it met my minimum requirements for playing. (never got to play UO) When I tried ArcheAge (my second and last "MMO") I kind of loved it for the scenery. I could run around in underwear, pick up flowers and enjoy the scenery ... ... but WTF, it's so damn easy and boring I felt like a hippy. Killed NPCs ten level above myself ... too easy. Can't even kill people everywhere. No constant danger. The skills I aquired in EVE make other games childsplay. I wish you a slow, agonising death with screams and tears of pain and horror. Have everything you posess taken away from you. Most importantly ... yourself. Corpses4Drifters
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 22400	Posted - 2015.04.29 19:34:21 - [19] - Quote And I almost thought people don't share my viewpoint anymore.... How stupid. ^_^ I wish you a slow, agonising death with screams and tears of pain and horror. Have everything you posess taken away from you. Most importantly ... yourself. Corpses4Drifters
Freya Sertan Tyrell Heavy Industries 68	Posted - 2015.04.29 19:36:30 - [20] - Quote Solecist Project wrote: And I almost thought people don't share my viewpoint anymore.... How stupid. ^_^ I had a co-worker tell me once, "We play EvE because it's better than any other game out there and by proxy, we're better as well." I couldn't argue.

Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 22413	Posted - 2015.04.29 19:38:22 - [21] - Quote Freya Sertan wrote: Solecist Project wrote: And I almost thought people don't share my viewpoint anymore.... How stupid. ^_^ I had a co-worker tell me once, "We play EvE because it's better than any other game out there and by proxy, we're better as well." I couldn't argue. Quoting for absolute truth. We should do like goons do. Invade other games, create EVE guilds/whatever and just show them who's boss. I wish you a slow, agonising death with screams and tears of pain and horror. Have everything you posess taken away from you. Most importantly ... yourself. Corpses4Drifters
DaReaper Net 7 1985	Posted - 2015.04.29 19:52:10 - [22] - Quote Solecist Project wrote: Freya Sertan wrote: Solecist Project wrote: And I almost thought people don't share my viewpoint anymore.... How stupid. ^_^ I had a co-worker tell me once, "We play EvE because it's better than any other game out there and by proxy, we're better as well." I couldn't argue. Quoting for absolute truth. We should do like goons do. Invade other games, create EVE guilds/whatever and just show them who's boss. I think this will happen in the vaporware game that shall not be named. if it comes out OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 22415	Posted - 2015.04.29 19:58:12 - [23] - Quote Yeah ... to wreck it, assuming the game is actually good enough to let us. I wish you a slow, agonising death with screams and tears of pain and horror. Have everything you posess taken away from you. Most importantly ... yourself. Corpses4Drifters
Enya Sparhawk Black Tea and Talons 50	Posted - 2015.04.29 19:59:22 - [24] - Quote Man, I hate WoW... So more WoW players to destroy on this game too? LOL I'd call that a win win. Fíorghrá: Grá na fírinne Déan gáire...Tiocfaidh ár lá
Kiandoshia Applied Anarchy SpaceMonkey's Alliance 2262	Posted - 2015.04.29 20:03:28 - [25] - Quote Freya Sertan wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Solecist Project wrote: We're the top of the MMO food chain. If the dumbest, but still experienced EVE players joined WoW they'd cry as well. We'd own them. Entitlement.... lol It's Elitism! Also: lol npc coward, go back to wow. I really hope you don't really believe what you typed... People who play EvE have probably played WoW and realized that the candy coated, pastel world of Azeroth is a joke. There is no actual conflict, no reason to even be there, really. The players in EvE make the game what it is. We ARE the apex of online gaming; especially when compared against the competition. That having been said, though, I welcome the WoW transplants as I stated above. Any chance to get someone into a real online game is a chance I'll take. I actually really liked WoW until the story had taken me everywhere and my friends told me to queue for dungeons until level 80. Then it got kind of boring and I lost interest. It's a pretty cool single player game though. Gigantic and colourful and pretty funny. It was also nice to run around those places that I knew from the RTS games I played in some distant past and could barely remember.
Freya Sertan Tyrell Heavy Industries 68	Posted - 2015.04.29 20:36:17 - [26] - Quote Kiandoshia wrote: Freya Sertan wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Solecist Project wrote: We're the top of the MMO food chain. If the dumbest, but still experienced EVE players joined WoW they'd cry as well. We'd own them. Entitlement.... lol It's Elitism! Also: lol npc coward, go back to wow. I really hope you don't really believe what you typed... People who play EvE have probably played WoW and realized that the candy coated, pastel world of Azeroth is a joke. There is no actual conflict, no reason to even be there, really. The players in EvE make the game what it is. We ARE the apex of online gaming; especially when compared against the competition. That having been said, though, I welcome the WoW transplants as I stated above. Any chance to get someone into a real online game is a chance I'll take. I actually really liked WoW until the story had taken me everywhere and my friends told me to queue for dungeons until level 80. Then it got kind of boring and I lost interest. It's a pretty cool single player game though. Gigantic and colourful and pretty funny. It was also nice to run around those places that I knew from the RTS games I played in some distant past and could barely remember. I played WoW from closed beta to the launch of Cataclysm. It really lost its luster at that point with me. It is the biggest online single player game I've ever played. You actually have to TRY to die in WoW. In EvE all you have to do is undock. I enjoyed my time in WoW as well just as I enjoyed my Everquest time (9 years!!) but EvE is by far the best.
Thomas Harding Flaming Sideburns Social Club 32	Posted - 2015.04.29 22:46:53 - [27] - Quote Freya Sertan wrote: Solecist Project wrote: And I almost thought people don't share my viewpoint anymore.... How stupid. ^_^ I had a co-worker tell me once, "We play EvE because it's better than any other game out there and by proxy, we're better as well." I couldn't argue. Nethack. As much as I would like to say Eve is best game there is, it isn't. Nethack is still best.
Jenshae Chiroptera 1421	Posted - 2015.04.29 23:05:38 - [28] - Quote GenericForumAlt 1267389 wrote: ... CCP is a company and making the game more appealing or easier gets subs. ... ... and yet, the easier EVE gets the lower the average online players drops if you look at 3 months, 6 months, year and 5 years. I agree that CCP can reduce complexity but not at the expense of depth. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids . High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow Fozzie is treating a symptom.
Joe Atei Aes Dei Asher 3	Posted - 2015.04.29 23:24:43 - [29] - Quote Col Arran wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Catering to the same player base as most other MMO is not a safe bet. Look at all the wow killers... Normally I would agree with this sentiment but if you look at it they all tried to kill wow with games that when you stand back and look at it, were basically wow. I think EVE is in a bit of a different position here or else I would agree with your viewpoint. If anything CCP is trying to cater to not exactly the same player-base just attempting to get some overlap going on. Eve is definitely different. Hopefully it never becomes WoW though. As the saying goes, "If i wanted to play WoW, I'd go play WoW. Not a WoW clone." Eve is still far too different to even be considered such a thing. With that being said, would be pretty cool to see ship skins tied to the ships they're applied and monocles (clothing) tied to the pod clone the player equips. And make them both destructible But then no one would ever spend $40 on a ship skin
Minmatar Citizen 534612187 Citizen Corp. 8	Posted - 2015.04.29 23:27:52 - [30] - Quote GenericForumAlt 1267389 wrote: CCP isn't going to hold their game and company profits back because you feel dissatisfied with a change that has no impact on gameplay, get over it. If you define "hold their game back" as "not maximizing profits" then you're why gaming has slowly, but surely, gone down the shitter. Thanks, Goodhart's Law. :(

Joe Atei Aes Dei Asher 3	Posted - 2015.04.29 23:29:59 - [31] - Quote Kiandoshia wrote: We're like the masterrace of the masterrace? Yes
13kr1d1 Hedion University Amarr Empire 107	Posted - 2015.04.30 00:09:25 - [32] - Quote Clone costs kept the wow riff raff out. You guys think skins started bringing them in, but you'd be wrong. At 5 drones of T2, the Tristan is nearly as powerful as the Algos, with a cheaper price tag, better maneuverability and speed, and smaller sig radius to avoid the lazy carebearish T3 station blapping -10s who have no life. Pick tristan for FW.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 23678	Posted - 2015.04.30 01:14:09 - [33] - Quote I don't think people have a problem with WoW refugees, or cosmetic items. The problem is when those refugees demand that Eve change its nature to suit them. In short nobody wants Eve to become gentrified. Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Ralph King-Griffin Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 9542	Posted - 2015.04.30 01:19:53 - [34] - Quote Joe Atei wrote: Kiandoshia wrote: We're like the masterrace of the masterrace? Yes hmmm, more feared and reviled , we are the retched scum and villainy of the mmo world. you know the sort,top hat,cane twiddling our moustaches while tying young lady's to train tracks, that sort of thing. Lords.Of.Midnight now recruiting Steamy hot small gang action is waiting for you.
Jenshae Chiroptera 1422	Posted - 2015.04.30 01:33:31 - [35] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: ... In short nobody wants Eve to become gentrified. EVE is already gentrified. I am considerate, I make sure to sharpen my knife so that when I slit a throat it is fast and rather painless. Plebs go about whacking away with blunt axes long after their scape goat is dead. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids . High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow Fozzie is treating a symptom.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12839	Posted - 2015.04.30 01:44:09 - [36] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: I don't think people have a problem with WoW refugees, or cosmetic items. The problem is when those refugees demand that Eve change its nature to suit them. In short nobody wants Eve to become gentrified. Pretty much this. If you aren't here to play EVE, just to agitate, be gone. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx 1658	Posted - 2015.04.30 01:44:33 - [37] - Quote Solecist Project wrote: We're the top of the MMO food chain. If the dumbest, but still experienced EVE players joined WoW they'd cry as well. We'd own them. Entitlement.... lol It's Elitism! Also: lol npc coward, go back to wow. Actually we'd get banned. I think thats slightly different than owning them, but I'm not sure. New Player Placement Specialist and Scope Project FC. Contact me for a free consultation. BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!
Chewytowel Haklar Project RESET 135	Posted - 2015.04.30 01:50:04 - [38] - Quote I've played WoW for about 5 years but never really pvp in any game. For me coming to EVE Online is like going from preschool WoW pvp to Holy Hell you better know your crap pvp!!! There is no casual pvp in EVE, it is all hardcore brother! Anyone that comes to this game from WoW better understand that EVE won't change into a carebear game, or a dumbed down version of itself due to crying. EVE is meant to be hard, painful even, and make you so upset at times that you feel like crying. I don't expect this game to change for me, but I'd love to see more changes to create new and unique ways to earn income, start fights, cause problems, and whatever else the devs feel would be fun. EVE challenges you and makes you want to learn to be a better gamer and a better person.
Harrison Tato Yamato Holdings 344	Posted - 2015.04.30 02:10:48 - [39] - Quote Aren't we special? lol
Dots State Protectorate Caldari State 66	Posted - 2015.04.30 02:12:12 - [40] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: GenericForumAlt 1267389 wrote: ... CCP is a company and making the game more appealing or easier gets subs. ... ... and yet, the easier EVE gets the lower the average online players drops if you look at 3 months, 6 months, year and 5 years. I agree that CCP can reduce complexity but not at the expense of depth. Ah yes, Jenshae continuing to see a decline where one doesn't exist (data from Chribbs). Here's data from FF 2015. You do remember the slope of a line is +öy/+öx, don't you? everything is better with ß¦êß¦Æß¦ù-ó on it New Player Opportunities: a gallery

Jenshae Chiroptera 1423	Posted - 2015.04.30 02:24:38 - [41] - Quote Dots wrote: Ah yes, Jenshae continuing to see a decline where one doesn't exist Ah yes, Dots using the All Time graph, taking in the pre-2008 figures when EVE was growing and would lower the average. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids . High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow Fozzie is treating a symptom.
Trigg Savo Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 0	Posted - 2015.04.30 02:25:34 - [42] - Quote Every game since WoW is basically a WoW clone on most levels. Sandbox games are basically dead, with the exception of EVE. Monthly subscription models are basically dead, with the exception of EVE. Everything is F2P with a sub option for a more "complete" gaming experience, and everything else...all the fluff and eyecandy is offered through a cash market, a la SWTOR's Cartel Store. It makes sense for CCP to adopt this model because it's a cash cow.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 23682	Posted - 2015.04.30 02:32:51 - [43] - Quote Trigg Savo wrote: Every game since WoW is basically a WoW clone on most levels. Sandbox games are basically dead, with the exception of EVE. Monthly subscription models are basically dead, with the exception of EVE. Everything is F2P with a sub option for a more "complete" gaming experience, and everything else...all the fluff and eyecandy is offered through a cash market, a la SWTOR's Cartel Store. It makes sense for CCP to adopt this model because it's a cash cow. The only way that makes sense is if CCP wants Eve to join the WoW clones in the dustbin of gaming history. They're never going to compete with Blizzard and win, countless other developers have tried and failed. Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Adriana Nolen Sama Guild 93	Posted - 2015.04.30 03:40:39 - [44] - Quote I'm a WOW refugee, from like 3 years ago. Honestly, it just depends on the player. I really enjoy the ability to do much more in a game environment that wow just simply couldn't provide. I do miss arena's but WOT satiates my needs for that. Edit: I would like to add that EVE has indeed helped me in RL financially. Learning market theory has been an invaluable life skill for me.
Trevor Dalech We pooped on your lawn Resonance. 104	Posted - 2015.04.30 06:17:36 - [45] - Quote Thomas Harding wrote: Nethack. As much as I would like to say Eve is best game there is, it isn't. Nethack is still best. This! I'd even say it beats EVE at the things EVE is good at. It has a steeper learning curve, the things you can do are endless, loss is really real (no cloning, game over!) If only it were truly multiplayer, not just through bones files...
Kiandoshia Applied Anarchy SpaceMonkey's Alliance 2266	Posted - 2015.04.30 07:54:58 - [46] - Quote Freya Sertan wrote: Kiandoshia wrote: Freya Sertan wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Solecist Project wrote: We're the top of the MMO food chain. If the dumbest, but still experienced EVE players joined WoW they'd cry as well. We'd own them. Entitlement.... lol It's Elitism! Also: lol npc coward, go back to wow. I really hope you don't really believe what you typed... People who play EvE have probably played WoW and realized that the candy coated, pastel world of Azeroth is a joke. There is no actual conflict, no reason to even be there, really. The players in EvE make the game what it is. We ARE the apex of online gaming; especially when compared against the competition. That having been said, though, I welcome the WoW transplants as I stated above. Any chance to get someone into a real online game is a chance I'll take. I actually really liked WoW until the story had taken me everywhere and my friends told me to queue for dungeons until level 80. Then it got kind of boring and I lost interest. It's a pretty cool single player game though. Gigantic and colourful and pretty funny. It was also nice to run around those places that I knew from the RTS games I played in some distant past and could barely remember. I played WoW from closed beta to the launch of Cataclysm. It really lost its luster at that point with me. It is the biggest online single player game I've ever played. You actually have to TRY to die in WoW. In EvE all you have to do is undock. I enjoyed my time in WoW as well just as I enjoyed my Everquest time (9 years!!) but EvE is by far the best. Oh I managed to die =P Usually to NPCs. Eventually, I got killed by a guy in whereever that really jungly area is and for a time, I decided to stay there and have shootouts with other people because you could actually hide in the landscape and ambush them :D
Otso Bakarti Aliastra Gallente Federation 123	Posted - 2015.04.30 08:52:49 - [47] - Quote Solecist Project wrote: We're the top of the MMO food chain. If the dumbest, but still experienced EVE players joined WoW they'd cry as well. We'd own them. Entitlement.... lol It's Elitism! Also: lol npc coward, go back to wow. I survived Win95
Otso Bakarti Aliastra Gallente Federation 123	Posted - 2015.04.30 09:00:34 - [48] - Quote PLEXers vs. payers. Or, did CCP find a way to convert PLEX offered in game time into gold? (hearty laugh ho ho ho) Whenever you target the widest common denominator, you blunt dull or blur your item. The WCD is dimbulb range, after all. The gaming industry has fumbled with this for half a decade now, and all they could come up with are games that require a 12-year old no thought whatever to play, with stuff in a micro-transaction store that the 12-year old's mommy's VISA can operate. Way of the MMO - Mummy, it only costs ten bucks. Can I HAVE IT?? Has CCP stealthily adopted this business model while attempting to bamboozle the "old players" (back when the game required intelligence)? Only time will tell, eh? What's it starting to look like? It doesn't matter how many subscribers CCP has then, for EVE won't be EVE, it'll be some other thing with that label. Are we verging on this, or has it already come to pass? MOMMY! GET OUT YER VISA!! THERE'S ANOTHER "UPDATE"! I survived Win95
Iam The Flash New Eden Cultural Exchange Advent of Fate 41	Posted - 2015.04.30 09:07:24 - [49] - Quote GenericForumAlt 1267389 wrote: I've been seeing a lot more complaining than usual about the WoW refugees recently. Seems it spiked when CCP announced permanent ship skins. The people who are so quick to complain about how entitled the wow community is are in a way entitled themselves. CCP is a company and making the game more appealing or easier gets subs. I'm in a new player friendly corp in nullsec and our numbers have been swelling with people completely new to EVE, its almost 2 a day at this point. We don't get vets unsubbing and most are happy with the changes that are happening. EVE isn't "your" sandbox its "a" sandbox, yeah yeah my 15 dollars a month blah blah same argument the people in WoW use. I think its time to come to terms with the fact that EVE Online is not the same game it was 10 years ago and it will never be. Ship skins, clothing, refined UI some of the most heated topics recently are all massive revenue drivers for other companies. Of course CCP is going to add them and to think they won't try to make revenue because of the vocal minority bitching about it on the forums is just idiotic. CCP isn't going to hold their game and company profits back because you feel dissatisfied with a change that has no impact on gameplay, get over it. Get a clue, it's not about that. People paid ISK for ships with skins on, way above market value over original hulls and then overnight, all our skinned ships revert to normal and are we compensated the billions of ISK? No. Ive lost a total of 2.3billion ISK on ships. Ships that i PAID for over the market price because they had cool skins on. So yeh, forgive me if im pissed off I still play wow, that makes me a girl does it? a noob? get stuffed mate and get a clue
Avaelica Kuershin 45	Posted - 2015.04.30 09:39:16 - [50] - Quote Iam The Flash wrote: People paid ISK for ships with skins on, way above market value over original hulls and then overnight, all our skinned ships revert to normal and are we compensated the billions of ISK? No. Ive lost a total of 2.3billion ISK on ships. Ships that i PAID for over the market price because they had cool skins on. So yeh, forgive me if im pissed off I still play wow, that makes me a girl does it? a noob? get stuffed mate and get a clue And are you pissed off because you can associate that ISK with real money? If so, did you ever drop gold on fancy mounts in WoW? Like the one that came with the reforger? What then is the difference?

Nalelmir Ahashion Omegon 42nd Core 657	Posted - 2015.04.30 09:53:54 - [51] - Quote I played wow for 2 weeks. It was about 5 years ago I think. I count as refugee? truly wow is the most boring, horrible, bad experience in MMOs I had ever. if not for the "oh ! I burned this place in WC3!!" moments I wouldn't been there for even a week. I played swtor on and off for few years. Mostly for the plot as big KOTOR fan I mostly played solo with on and off ****** group content which is easy as pie. but lately they just gave the middle finger to the story content and just place terminals with daily missions instead of bloody creating story. Also > cartel market. EvE is nice as it's single world running for over 10 years and players create the story. The systems are interesting and due to skill learning mechanic there is always something new to experience. But let's not get ahead of ourselves with "Master Race of the Master Race" attitude. Bit of humility never hurt anyone. "To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin" - The Scriptures, Book of Missions 13:21
Otso Bakarti Aliastra Gallente Federation 123	Posted - 2015.04.30 10:05:43 - [52] - Quote The tiresome practice of trying to equate ISK to real world money has long since lost its power to titillate, unless of course you're a cable "news" addict. (That being the case, why would you be here?) Caveat emptor /-îk+ªv+¢+æ-Ét -ê+¢mpt+ör/ is Latin for "Let the buyer beware" <--- In case that slipped your notice. If you're going to be an unbridled capitalist lackey at least learn the lingo. You knew at the time what you were buying had a limited shelf life. No. We don't need to go into you paying huge sums of money to look at something only you can see. It's not like you can stand in front of the Prancing Pony in Bree and show off to the noobs what great garb your mom will sacrifice the Visa for. Skin purchaser remorse isn't the subject is it? I survived Win95
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 22537	Posted - 2015.04.30 10:36:37 - [53] - Quote Nalelmir Ahashion wrote: But let's not get ahead of ourselves with "Master Race of the Master Race" attitude. Bit of humility never hurt anyone. No idea why you see things completely opposite. What we need is a bit of elitism ... ... because that reminds people that we are still the master race of the master race. DOES YELLING ANNOY YOU ? LIKE MY IDEA BELOW AND I WILL REMOVE IT !! Corpses4Drifters CLICK THE LINK !! YOU LIKE THE IDEA !! FOR EVEN MORE PLAYER DRIVEN CONTENT !!
Brian Harrelstein Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 28	Posted - 2015.04.30 11:31:32 - [54] - Quote Quote: WoW refugee Seriously, who cares where people come from.
Jenshae Chiroptera 1426	Posted - 2015.04.30 12:36:23 - [55] - Quote Brian Harrelstein wrote: Quote: WoW refugee Seriously, who cares where people come from. If I am recruiting for a corp and find that someone was happy to solo through multiple quests with multiple characters, button mashing or go "Boost plz" for years. I would be more inclined to take my chances on a newbie. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids . High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow Fozzie is treating a symptom.
Ma'Baker McCandless The McCandless Clan 89	Posted - 2015.04.30 13:31:25 - [56] - Quote What's a WoW? Is it some kind of cake?
Staten Island The Offical Balder Fan Club 36	Posted - 2015.04.30 13:31:42 - [57] - Quote Freya Sertan wrote: The more players in EvE the better for the future of the game, period. More players = more money = more content = more people to shoot in the face. Come WoW refugees, come to the darkness. Come, see what online gaming REALLY is. Except things seem to be going the other way. Back when I started playing I would log on and there would be mid to high 30k folk on during est and there was a constant drum beat from ccp about how they were going to set a record for concurrent log ins and you would see spikes into the 40s (high 40s?). Anyway these days it seems always to be in the 20s and often the low 20s. Sure CCP claimed that after "this is eve" there was a spike in new users, but IMO it doesnt seem to have made a difference long term and every one of these updates seems to be driving long term users away, with none of the hordes of mythical wow users coming into replace them.
Ma'Baker McCandless The McCandless Clan 89	Posted - 2015.04.30 13:37:13 - [58] - Quote I have always been under the impression CCP would rather have addicts who will be here till they die paying their subs than flash in the pan one or two monthers who will leave when their ability to comprehend the nature of the game fails them and they either leave or demand changes to keep them happy. In short; better 5000 constant numbers than 50,000 whining babies who need constantly appeased.
erg cz Tribal Core 232	Posted - 2015.04.30 13:44:53 - [59] - Quote Staten Island wrote: Sure CCP claimed that after "this is eve" there was a spike in new users, but IMO it doesnt seem to have made a difference long term and every one of these updates seems to be driving long term users away, with none of the hordes of mythical wow users coming into replace them. You want to help keep old players and get more new players? Support or help develop this suggestion!
Ria Nieyli Nieyli Enterprises 33865	Posted - 2015.04.30 14:07:44 - [60] - Quote This thread is a shameful display of hubris. Why do bad threads happen to good people?

Jenshae Chiroptera 1426	Posted - 2015.04.30 14:12:38 - [61] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: This thread is a shameful display of hubris. Please use a thesaurus. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids . High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow Fozzie is treating a symptom.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 22566	Posted - 2015.04.30 14:13:46 - [62] - Quote Staten Island wrote: Freya Sertan wrote: The more players in EvE the better for the future of the game, period. More players = more money = more content = more people to shoot in the face. Come WoW refugees, come to the darkness. Come, see what online gaming REALLY is. Except things seem to be going the other way. Back when I started playing I would log on and there would be mid to high 30k folk on during est and there was a constant drum beat from ccp about how they were going to set a record for concurrent log ins and you would see spikes into the 40s (high 40s?). Anyway these days it seems always to be in the 20s and often the low 20s. Sure CCP claimed that after "this is eve" there was a spike in new users, but IMO it doesnt seem to have made a difference long term and every one of these updates seems to be driving long term users away, with none of the hordes of mythical wow users coming into replace them. Yeah and since then CCP has been banning bots in masses ... ... ruined the RMT market ... ... introduced MCT which made lots of people reduce their account numbers ... ... banned multiplexing. Considering all of that ... ... they are doing quite well. I still see 30k+ daily. DOES YELLING ANNOY YOU ? LIKE MY IDEA BELOW AND I WILL REMOVE IT !! Corpses4Drifters CLICK THE LINK !! YOU LIKE THE IDEA !! FOR EVEN MORE PLAYER DRIVEN CONTENT !!
Ria Nieyli Nieyli Enterprises 33865	Posted - 2015.04.30 14:19:25 - [63] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Ria Nieyli wrote: This thread is a shameful display of hubris. Please use a thesaurus. I deployed the exact meaning that I desired to. Why do bad threads happen to good people?
Isis Dea Xotica Entertainment 724	Posted - 2015.04.30 14:23:43 - [64] - Quote GenericForumAlt 1267389 wrote: I've been seeing a lot more complaining than usual about the WoW refugees recently. Seems it spiked when CCP announced permanent ship skins. The people who are so quick to complain about how entitled the wow community is are in a way entitled themselves. CCP is a company and making the game more appealing or easier gets subs. I'm in a new player friendly corp in nullsec and our numbers have been swelling with people completely new to EVE, its almost 2 a day at this point. We don't get vets unsubbing and most are happy with the changes that are happening. EVE isn't "your" sandbox its "a" sandbox, yeah yeah my 15 dollars a month blah blah same argument the people in WoW use. I think its time to come to terms with the fact that EVE Online is not the same game it was 10 years ago and it will never be. Ship skins, clothing, refined UI some of the most heated topics recently are all massive revenue drivers for other companies. Of course CCP is going to add them and to think they won't try to make revenue because of the vocal minority bitching about it on the forums is just idiotic. CCP isn't going to hold their game and company profits back because you feel dissatisfied with a change that has no impact on gameplay, get over it. Vet since 2004, finally unsubbing. Although it's more because I'm a role-player who's watched the slow decline of EVE's catering to its lore and vast sci-fi dystopia and more catering to trollish alliances that were the initial reason I ran away from other titles and came to EVE in the first place. Still keeping my stuff, of course. Maybe one day EVE will become that way again... (I fall into that tiny demographic that actually wanted to see more clothes/character stuff, than spaceship skins...) More Character Customization :: Especially compared to what we had in 2003...
Frostys Virpio The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc 1758	Posted - 2015.04.30 14:28:22 - [65] - Quote Ma'Baker McCandless wrote: I have always been under the impression CCP would rather have addicts who will be here till they die paying their subs than flash in the pan one or two monthers who will leave when their ability to comprehend the nature of the game fails them and they either leave or demand changes to keep them happy. In short; better 5000 constant numbers than 50,000 whining babies who need constantly appeased. The problem for that is greed. Every MMO could potentially have lived on it's "core" audience for years but owners usually want better returns on investment. If your target audience was large to begin with, you face less problem than if you were creating a niche game. The cut-off line always depend on your running cost. If the 50,000 babies are needed to keep your stuff running, the 5000 constant numbers option is just not valid.
Ma'Baker McCandless The McCandless Clan 89	Posted - 2015.04.30 14:35:11 - [66] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: If the 50,000 babies are needed to keep your stuff running, the 5000 constant numbers option is just not valid. Yeah, but they aren't needed. That's why we dont have em. Isis Dea wrote: I'm a role-player who's watched the slow decline of EVE's catering to its lore and vast sci-fi dystopia and more catering to trollish alliances that were the initial reason I ran away from other titles and came to EVE in the first place. So you are a roleplayer, but one who doesn't want to roleplay in a universe you can actually interact with but prefer the painted-on chairs and unassailable whims of NPCs who never ever ever change? In a lore that isnt particualrly interesting or original? You probably should have stayed in the Golden Lion Inn tbqfh
Frostys Virpio The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc 1758	Posted - 2015.04.30 15:05:17 - [67] - Quote Ma'Baker McCandless wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: If the 50,000 babies are needed to keep your stuff running, the 5000 constant numbers option is just not valid. Yeah, but they aren't needed. That's why we dont have em. Isis Dea wrote: I'm a role-player who's watched the slow decline of EVE's catering to its lore and vast sci-fi dystopia and more catering to trollish alliances that were the initial reason I ran away from other titles and came to EVE in the first place. So you are a roleplayer, but one who doesn't want to roleplay in a universe you can actually interact with but prefer the painted-on chairs and unassailable whims of NPCs who never ever ever change? In a lore that isnt particualrly interesting or original? You probably should have stayed in the Golden Lion Inn tbqfh I was only illustrating without it applying to EVE's current state. As for that inn, it's kinda creepy tbh...
Freya Sertan Tyrell Heavy Industries 85	Posted - 2015.04.30 15:18:00 - [68] - Quote Staten Island wrote: Freya Sertan wrote: The more players in EvE the better for the future of the game, period. More players = more money = more content = more people to shoot in the face. Come WoW refugees, come to the darkness. Come, see what online gaming REALLY is. Except things seem to be going the other way. Back when I started playing I would log on and there would be mid to high 30k folk on during est and there was a constant drum beat from ccp about how they were going to set a record for concurrent log ins and you would see spikes into the 40s (high 40s?). Anyway these days it seems always to be in the 20s and often the low 20s. Sure CCP claimed that after "this is eve" there was a spike in new users, but IMO it doesnt seem to have made a difference long term and every one of these updates seems to be driving long term users away, with none of the hordes of mythical wow users coming into replace them. Got any kind of proof of that? Any kind at all? Not just inconsequential reports of you seeing the pilot count on the launcher. It is really easy to say "OMG x game is dying!!!" but it's way harder to actually prove it. CCP has the data and they have shared it. Guess what? It is the exact opposite of what you're saying.
Ma'Baker McCandless The McCandless Clan 91	Posted - 2015.04.30 15:27:29 - [69] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: I was only illustrating without it applying to EVE's current state. As for that inn, it's kinda creepy tbh... Oh no, I totally get that. Just confirming your confirmation while I take Ramona for her first Confirmation (its an Amarr thing) And yes, the Golden Lion is no place for minors thats for true. Or Miners for that matter.
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 6623	Posted - 2015.04.30 16:17:02 - [70] - Quote DaReaper wrote: i don;t mind some of the changes. the learning curve in eve is steep, but giving someone more then a dogy paddle before tossing them intot he deep end is good. And more wow players, more people to shoo tin the face. Eve has room to devlope in ways to attract people without losing itself. The hot red head who will rip your balls off if you **** her off, can change her dress if she wishes.. or put on makeup.. but she will still rip your balls off. as long as eve stays single shard, uninstanced, open world, and dark. she will be fine. you can dull some of the edges for noobs, and still keep her core Noooo not the sack Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Velarra 361	Posted - 2015.04.30 17:19:44 - [71] - Quote At least no one's pleading for eve to go F2P.
Ma'Baker McCandless The McCandless Clan 91	Posted - 2015.04.30 17:23:19 - [72] - Quote Velarra wrote: At least no one's pleading for eve to go F2P. The lynchin party I think is too obvious
Velarra 361	Posted - 2015.04.30 17:30:26 - [73] - Quote Ma'Baker McCandless wrote: Velarra wrote: At least no one's pleading for eve to go F2P. The lynchin party I think is too obvious And then there's the horrible reality of knowing CCP would be completely incapable of executing such a drastic shift in economics without failure and irrevocably destroying the entire game in the process.
Ma'Baker McCandless The McCandless Clan 93	Posted - 2015.04.30 17:38:01 - [74] - Quote Velarra wrote: Ma'Baker McCandless wrote: Velarra wrote: At least no one's pleading for eve to go F2P. The lynchin party I think is too obvious And then there's the horrible reality of knowing CCP would be completely incapable of executing such a drastic shift in economics without failure and irrevocably destroying the entire game in the process. It would be a self-destruct that would make Age of Conan: Hyperboring Adventures look like a wise business move.
Prince Kobol 2488	Posted - 2015.04.30 18:26:48 - [75] - Quote Freya Sertan wrote: Staten Island wrote: Freya Sertan wrote: The more players in EvE the better for the future of the game, period. More players = more money = more content = more people to shoot in the face. Come WoW refugees, come to the darkness. Come, see what online gaming REALLY is. Except things seem to be going the other way. Back when I started playing I would log on and there would be mid to high 30k folk on during est and there was a constant drum beat from ccp about how they were going to set a record for concurrent log ins and you would see spikes into the 40s (high 40s?). Anyway these days it seems always to be in the 20s and often the low 20s. Sure CCP claimed that after "this is eve" there was a spike in new users, but IMO it doesnt seem to have made a difference long term and every one of these updates seems to be driving long term users away, with none of the hordes of mythical wow users coming into replace them. Got any kind of proof of that? Any kind at all? Not just inconsequential reports of you seeing the pilot count on the launcher. It is really easy to say "OMG x game is dying!!!" but it's way harder to actually prove it. CCP has the data and they have shared it. Guess what? It is the exact opposite of what you're saying. CCP have not shared the most most important piece of data which they used to for years now, and that is the actual number of Subscribers. People can make there own minds why that is but for me it is the simple fact that they have gone down instead of up. Its a great marketing tool to share with the world that your game is gaining subscribers but it is not so good to share if you are losing subscribers. Most publishers like to tell the world when they have x number of subscribers but go all quiet when that number starts to go down.. CCP are no exception to the rule.
Freya Sertan Tyrell Heavy Industries 88	Posted - 2015.04.30 18:31:45 - [76] - Quote Prince Kobol wrote: Freya Sertan wrote: Staten Island wrote: Freya Sertan wrote: The more players in EvE the better for the future of the game, period. More players = more money = more content = more people to shoot in the face. Come WoW refugees, come to the darkness. Come, see what online gaming REALLY is. Except things seem to be going the other way. Back when I started playing I would log on and there would be mid to high 30k folk on during est and there was a constant drum beat from ccp about how they were going to set a record for concurrent log ins and you would see spikes into the 40s (high 40s?). Anyway these days it seems always to be in the 20s and often the low 20s. Sure CCP claimed that after "this is eve" there was a spike in new users, but IMO it doesnt seem to have made a difference long term and every one of these updates seems to be driving long term users away, with none of the hordes of mythical wow users coming into replace them. Got any kind of proof of that? Any kind at all? Not just inconsequential reports of you seeing the pilot count on the launcher. It is really easy to say "OMG x game is dying!!!" but it's way harder to actually prove it. CCP has the data and they have shared it. Guess what? It is the exact opposite of what you're saying. CCP have not shared the most most important piece of data which they used to for years now, and that is the actual number of Subscribers. People can make there own minds why that is but for me it is the simple fact that they have gone down instead of up. Its a great marketing tool to share with the world that your game is gaining subscribers but it is not so good to share if you are losing subscribers. Most publishers like to tell the world when they have x number of subscribers but go all quiet when that number starts to go down.. CCP are no exception to the rule. Hold up. If you admit you don't even know the amount of subscribers how can you possibly say it's gone down?
SpaceyJoe Mentat Kollectorz 0	Posted - 2015.04.30 18:58:46 - [77] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Catering to the same player base as most other MMO is not a safe bet. Look at all the wow killers... Eve has pretty securely established its niche in the PVP gaming community: Eve = World PVP king WoW = Arena and BG ESO = AvA PS2 = mmofps LoL = "E Sport" king Cash shops are popping up all over the industry; until ccp makes an instanced arena/bg system they aren't catering to the WoW pvp crowd.
Ma'Baker McCandless The McCandless Clan 93	Posted - 2015.04.30 19:10:48 - [78] - Quote SpaceyJoe Mentat wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Catering to the same player base as most other MMO is not a safe bet. Look at all the wow killers... Eve has pretty securely established its niche in the PVP gaming community: Eve = World PVP king WoW = Arena and BG ESO = AvA PS2 = mmofps LoL = "E Sport" king Cash shops are popping up all over the industry; until ccp makes an instanced arena/bg system they aren't catering to the WoW pvp crowd. Why would they want to? And just no. Just totally no. Your list... no.
Hicksimus Xion Limited Resonance. 600	Posted - 2015.04.30 19:29:22 - [79] - Quote Freya Sertan wrote: Hold up. If you admit you don't even know the amount of subscribers how can you possibly say it's gone down? While nobody can say numbers are going down with certainly I'm sure everybody can grasp the logic of self fulfilling prophecy and as a result they can grasp the concept of CCP never wanting to show that "EvE is dying". Given that knowledge and CCP's employment reductions lately plus their push towards paid content we can also be certain that they have revenue issues. So I can't tell you with absolute certainty that subscriber numbers are going down but I can tell you that the logic exists to suggest that it is the cause of them not showing the subscriber numbers. Recruitment Officer: What type of a pilot are you? Me: I've been described as a Ray Charles with Parkinsons and a drinking problem.
Ma'Baker McCandless The McCandless Clan 93	Posted - 2015.04.30 19:34:59 - [80] - Quote Hicksimus wrote: While nobody can say numbers are going down with certainly I'm sure everybody can grasp the logic of self fulfilling prophecy and as a result they can grasp the concept of CCP never wanting to show that "EvE is dying". So CCP not saying Eve Is DyingTM = EvE MUST be dying. It couldnt possibly be more likely that they aren't concerned or reporting it because it... isnt dying?

Freya Sertan Tyrell Heavy Industries 91	Posted - 2015.04.30 19:39:03 - [81] - Quote Hicksimus wrote: Freya Sertan wrote: Hold up. If you admit you don't even know the amount of subscribers how can you possibly say it's gone down? While nobody can say numbers are going down with certainly I'm sure everybody can grasp the logic of self fulfilling prophecy and as a result they can grasp the concept of CCP never wanting to show that "EvE is dying". Given that knowledge and CCP's employment reductions lately plus their push towards paid content we can also be certain that they have revenue issues. So I can't tell you with absolute certainty that subscriber numbers are going down but I can tell you that the logic exists to suggest that it is the cause of them not showing the subscriber numbers. That is the antithesis to logic, that is speculation.
Lan Wang Stillwater Corporation That Escalated Quickly. 470	Posted - 2015.04.30 20:09:36 - [82] - Quote Hicksimus wrote: Freya Sertan wrote: Hold up. If you admit you don't even know the amount of subscribers how can you possibly say it's gone down? While nobody can say numbers are going down with certainly I'm sure everybody can grasp the logic of self fulfilling prophecy and as a result they can grasp the concept of CCP never wanting to show that "EvE is dying". Given that knowledge and CCP's employment reductions lately plus their push towards paid content we can also be certain that they have revenue issues. So I can't tell you with absolute certainty that subscriber numbers are going down but I can tell you that the logic exists to suggest that it is the cause of them not showing the subscriber numbers. Ah ok so because they have done what every game does by introducing a microtransaction feature (which is damn profitable) and layed off staff from a cancelled project eve is dying, come on have a word Following a trend does not mean you have revenue issues, they would have been stupid not to implement microtransactions EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding \| Digital Design
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 25095	Posted - 2015.04.30 20:33:08 - [83] - Quote Freya Sertan wrote: Hold up. If you admit you don't even know the amount of subscribers how can you possibly say it's gone down? Because every single metric we have at our disposal has shown a decline in activity, and for as long as we have been able to correlate the two, activity has covaried with subscription rates. The only real difference lately as a result of the bans and policy changes is that the activity has become less swingy; it is still trending downwards over the last two years. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
Iam The Flash New Eden Cultural Exchange Advent of Fate 53	Posted - 2015.04.30 22:33:46 - [84] - Quote You people are truly pathetic. You make a forum thread for like and get likes just to up your counter so it looks like people like you. You destroy null sec by infesting empire with grifer alts because you people don't want to look for fights anymore, u'd rather camp market hubs and then complain on the forums about lack of pvp in null when it's you, the so called null pvpers who are to blame. You constantly slam WoW, even tho it has over 7 million players worldwide and we don't even have 3/4 of a million because EvE is so broke it's a joke. You constantly screw up empire market prices by slamming frieghters non stop and slamming barges for lols non stop. You, the PvP population are single handedly destroying EvE and you have the audacity to come on here and COMPLAIN about ship skins and low numbers online. You use grifer alts to destroy new player corps non stop for then damn lols of it. You're pathetic. Alll the problems with EvE, you have only yourselves to blame
Paranoid Loyd 4982	Posted - 2015.04.30 22:39:04 - [85] - Quote Iam The Flash wrote: You people are truly pathetic. You make a forum thread for like and get likes just to up your counter so it looks like people like you. You destroy null sec by infesting empire with grifer alts because you people don't want to look for fights anymore, u'd rather camp market hubs and then complain on the forums about lack of pvp in null when it's you, the so called null pvpers who are to blame. You constantly slam WoW, even tho it has over 7 million players worldwide and we don't even have 3/4 of a million because EvE is so broke it's a joke. You constantly screw up empire market prices by slamming frieghters non stop and slamming barges for lols non stop. You, the PvP population are single handedly destroying EvE and you have the audacity to come on here and COMPLAIN about ship skins and low numbers online. You use grifer alts to destroy new player corps non stop for then damn lols of it. You're pathetic. Alll the problems with EvE, you have only yourselves to blame Glorious tears. http://i39.tinypic.com/j6h7jm.jpg "Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata Fix the Prospect!!!
Rowells ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans 2363	Posted - 2015.04.30 22:45:45 - [86] - Quote Iam The Flash wrote: You people are truly pathetic. You make a forum thread for like and get likes just to up your counter so it looks like people like you. You destroy null sec by infesting empire with grifer alts because you people don't want to look for fights anymore, u'd rather camp market hubs and then complain on the forums about lack of pvp in null when it's you, the so called null pvpers who are to blame. You constantly slam WoW, even tho it has over 7 million players worldwide and we don't even have 3/4 of a million because EvE is so broke it's a joke. You constantly screw up empire market prices by slamming frieghters non stop and slamming barges for lols non stop. You, the PvP population are single handedly destroying EvE and you have the audacity to come on here and COMPLAIN about ship skins and low numbers online. You use grifer alts to destroy new player corps non stop for then damn lols of it. You're pathetic. Alll the problems with EvE, you have only yourselves to blame BREAKING NEWS: PVP is destroying a PVP game! More on this story at 11...
Vincent Athena V.I.C.E. 3341	Posted - 2015.04.30 23:08:10 - [87] - Quote However, that rant does have one interesting idea: To get more PvP in low and Null, remove PvP opportunities in High. Know a Frozen fan? Check this out Frozen fanfiction
Avaelica Kuershin 46	Posted - 2015.04.30 23:13:23 - [88] - Quote Vincent Athena wrote: However, that rant does have one interesting idea: To get more PvP in low and Null, remove PvP opportunities in High. So... Remove High?
Kinete Jenius Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 20	Posted - 2015.04.30 23:19:07 - [89] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Catering to the same player base as most other MMO is not a safe bet. Look at all the wow killers... Most of the "wow killers" weren't advertised as such just over zealous fanboys and haters of WoW made such proclamations. AION would of slaughtered WoW if NCsoft was decent at anything other then making videos. Ncsoft kept the grind the RNG and the oldschool crap while essentially ignoring the bots and spammers. If a competent group had been in control of AIOn then things would of been a lot different. That's the only game I'm aware of that actually really ever was a potential wow killer. Rowells wrote: PVP is destroying a PVP game! More on this story at 11... It's more like griefing in a pvp game is destroying the chance for real pvp. At least I think that was the point he was trying to make. In my experience shooting a miner or a freighter is no different from shooting a npc rat. The risk is all the same and your victim has no chance.
Rowells ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans 2363	Posted - 2015.04.30 23:21:31 - [90] - Quote Vincent Athena wrote: However, that rant does have one interesting idea: To get more PvP in low and Null, remove PvP opportunities in High. I think you're looking at it wrong. "To make the grass greener in my yard, I must make my neighbors grass less green" Unless those "opportunities" you are referring to are the players/targets themselves.

Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 23692	Posted - 2015.04.30 23:27:13 - [91] - Quote Kinete Jenius wrote: In my experience shooting a miner or a freighter is no different from shooting a npc rat. If people want to act like NPC rats then they'll get treated as such. Quote: The risk is all the same and your victim has no chance. The "victim" has every chance, they have access to the exact same tools and mechanics as the "griefers", that they choose not to use them is their problem. Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Avaelica Kuershin 46	Posted - 2015.04.30 23:29:23 - [92] - Quote Kinete Jenius wrote: It's more like griefing in a pvp game is destroying the chance for real pvp. At least I think that was the point he was trying to make. In my experience shooting a miner or a freighter is no different from shooting a npc rat. The risk is all the same and your victim has no chance. Ah... the debate of what 'real' pvp is. I admit to having played that other game and have been ganked... (and returned the favour) and guess what, as far as the GMs there are concerned, ganking by a max level character is still PVP. I think with the overuse of the word 'griefer', I may take some of Feyd's advice.
Rowells ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans 2363	Posted - 2015.04.30 23:29:52 - [93] - Quote Kinete Jenius wrote: Rowells wrote: PVP is destroying a PVP game! More on this story at 11... It's more like griefing in a pvp game is destroying the chance for real pvp. At least I think that was the point he was trying to make. In my experience shooting a miner or a freighter is no different from shooting a npc rat. The risk is all the same and your victim has no chance. And by what definition of "real pvp" are you using as opposed to classifying it as greifing? Surely you're not trying to inject things like consent into this particular aspect, no? And in my experience, shooting back or evading death as a miner is plenty of chance. Granted a freighter doesn't have guns, but that doesn't mean it should be perfectly safe.
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 2291	Posted - 2015.04.30 23:35:49 - [94] - Quote Everyone knows real pvp only happens in instanced arenas with balanced teams who have willingly queued to be there.
Kinete Jenius Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 20	Posted - 2015.04.30 23:37:42 - [95] - Quote Rowells wrote: Kinete Jenius wrote: Rowells wrote: PVP is destroying a PVP game! More on this story at 11... It's more like griefing in a pvp game is destroying the chance for real pvp. At least I think that was the point he was trying to make. In my experience shooting a miner or a freighter is no different from shooting a npc rat. The risk is all the same and your victim has no chance. And by what definition of "real pvp" are you using as opposed to classifying it as greifing? Surely you're not trying to inject things like consent into this particular aspect, no? And in my experience, shooting back or evading death as a miner is plenty of chance. Granted a freighter doesn't have guns, but that doesn't mean it should be perfectly safe. When I want to gank someone there's usually very little to nothing they can do but die. If you're doing it right your victim has no chance. All it requires is that you spend a little time setting up the gank before hand. As the ganker you have all the advantages. You decide when and where the confrontation occurs. Your target can't even shoot back till you've already engaged them which is a huge advantage especially with alpha ganks. I have no care to get into the debate on what constitutes "real" pvp. My observation stands regardless of your views on what constitutes real pvp. EDIT : What I do find kind of hilarious is how the same posts cycle through the forums every year. This style of thread has popped up since basically the beta era. Everytime CCP gets rid of a stupid mechanic or makes it slightly easier or more commonsensical to do something people rant and rave about accommodating wow players and stuff.
Rowells ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans 2363	Posted - 2015.04.30 23:43:55 - [96] - Quote Kinete Jenius wrote: Rowells wrote: Kinete Jenius wrote: Rowells wrote: PVP is destroying a PVP game! More on this story at 11... It's more like griefing in a pvp game is destroying the chance for real pvp. At least I think that was the point he was trying to make. In my experience shooting a miner or a freighter is no different from shooting a npc rat. The risk is all the same and your victim has no chance. And by what definition of "real pvp" are you using as opposed to classifying it as greifing? Surely you're not trying to inject things like consent into this particular aspect, no? And in my experience, shooting back or evading death as a miner is plenty of chance. Granted a freighter doesn't have guns, but that doesn't mean it should be perfectly safe. When I want to gank someone there's usually very little to nothing they can do but die. If you're doing it right your victim has no chance. All it requires is that you spend a little time setting up the gank before hand. And that's to say the victim can't also do some work beforehand in order to avoid or deter that situation? The 'sudden overwhelming force' tactic is in no way unique to ganking.
Kinete Jenius Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 20	Posted - 2015.04.30 23:47:50 - [97] - Quote Rowells wrote: Kinete Jenius wrote: Rowells wrote: Kinete Jenius wrote: Rowells wrote: PVP is destroying a PVP game! More on this story at 11... It's more like griefing in a pvp game is destroying the chance for real pvp. At least I think that was the point he was trying to make. In my experience shooting a miner or a freighter is no different from shooting a npc rat. The risk is all the same and your victim has no chance. And by what definition of "real pvp" are you using as opposed to classifying it as greifing? Surely you're not trying to inject things like consent into this particular aspect, no? And in my experience, shooting back or evading death as a miner is plenty of chance. Granted a freighter doesn't have guns, but that doesn't mean it should be perfectly safe. When I want to gank someone there's usually very little to nothing they can do but die. If you're doing it right your victim has no chance. All it requires is that you spend a little time setting up the gank before hand. And that's to say the victim can't also do some work beforehand in order to avoid or deter that situation? The 'sudden overwhelming force' tactic is in no way unique to ganking. Well in the case of a miner they can watch local and dscan but that's it. Assuming you're not going gung ho full on code troll on them (which can be hilarious) then the miner's only hope is to watch dscan. But oh wait my warp in point is a cov ops cloaked ship that then starts bumping the miner as it tries to run as it noticed my catas on dscan. What is that miner going to do now other then die? try to jam me? hahahaha. Use it's drones to whittle one of the catas down a little? Doesn't matter I intend to lose them anyway. Freighters are even more screwed as they are forced to move through predictable paths and not even a scout can save them if you're properly setup. I'm not a huge fan of the blob tactics that exist in huge nullsec fights. I stepped out of that area years ago out of boredom.
Yobu Khan Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 0	Posted - 2015.05.01 00:01:08 - [98] - Quote Iam The Flash wrote: You people are truly pathetic. You make a forum thread for like and get likes just to up your counter so it looks like people like you. You destroy null sec by infesting empire with grifer alts because you people don't want to look for fights anymore, u'd rather camp market hubs and then complain on the forums about lack of pvp in null when it's you, the so called null pvpers who are to blame. You constantly slam WoW, even tho it has over 7 million players worldwide and we don't even have 3/4 of a million because EvE is so broke it's a joke. You constantly screw up empire market prices by slamming frieghters non stop and slamming barges for lols non stop. You, the PvP population are single handedly destroying EvE and you have the audacity to come on here and COMPLAIN about ship skins and low numbers online. You use grifer alts to destroy new player corps non stop for then damn lols of it. You're pathetic. Alll the problems with EvE, you have only yourselves to blame Im sorry to say that even though he expressed himself in a very noxious way , what this guy says is very close to the picture i got after 10 days of playing. Its my first post here , but i honestly jump to the forums for everything that rises up. What i see ? New players like me with similar concerns , from tutorials to economy to skills or pvp , and same old veterans telling people "this game is not for you, *** off, go back to wow ". Same stuff overall can be dating back from 2008 maybe, and few ofc willing to work it out. And thats a general point of view from the forums to new eden.Somewhere in this forums they got described as Cannibalistic. But contrary to the OP, I believe the company is to blame for the current situation. As the years passed mmo industry evolved and so did the average gamer.This is reality even if we like it or not. CCP should have taken some decisions that could possibly leave older players with a feeling of unfairness in favour of community growth with fresh pilots. Instead now we got a Fossilised point of view from the majority of the veterans in denial of anything "new". This is a great mmo and every new player can tell, but lets be realistic ,the fun is way 2 far from reach, and although nobody doupts that its certainly there for allot of casuals like myself is unatainable.
Jenshae Chiroptera 1429	Posted - 2015.05.01 00:02:07 - [99] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Ria Nieyli wrote: This thread is a shameful display of hubris. Please use a thesaurus. I deployed the exact meaning that I desired to. Whilst regurgitating a clich+¬ and now you are wagging your tail and expecting praise for what you have done to the carpet. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids . High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow Fozzie is treating a symptom.
Rowdy Gates Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 5	Posted - 2015.05.01 00:15:56 - [100] - Quote How strange it is that in a place where new players are unwelcome, they actually perceive that.

Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 22667	Posted - 2015.05.01 00:22:34 - [101] - Quote Rowdy Gates wrote: How strange it is that in a place where new players are unwelcome, they actually perceive that. How strangte it is that someone who generalises everyone into the same bucket ... ... actually finds them inside. DOES YELLING ANNOY YOU ? LIKE MY IDEA BELOW AND I WILL REMOVE IT !! Corpses4Drifters CLICK THE LINK !! YOU LIKE THE IDEA !! FOR EVEN MORE PLAYER DRIVEN CONTENT !!
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 22667	Posted - 2015.05.01 00:35:33 - [102] - Quote Iam The Flash wrote: You people are truly pathetic. You make a forum thread for like and get likes just to up your counter so it looks like people like you. You destroy null sec by infesting empire with grifer alts because you people don't want to look for fights anymore, u'd rather camp market hubs and then complain on the forums about lack of pvp in null when it's you, the so called null pvpers who are to blame. You constantly slam WoW, even tho it has over 7 million players worldwide and we don't even have 3/4 of a million because EvE is so broke it's a joke. You constantly screw up empire market prices by slamming frieghters non stop and slamming barges for lols non stop. You, the PvP population are single handedly destroying EvE and you have the audacity to come on here and COMPLAIN about ship skins and low numbers online. You use grifer alts to destroy new player corps non stop for then damn lols of it. You're pathetic. Alll the problems with EvE, you have only yourselves to blame I lack the words to explain how much I doubt your ability to actually comprehend what you are talking about. DOES YELLING ANNOY YOU ? LIKE MY IDEA BELOW AND I WILL REMOVE IT !! Corpses4Drifters CLICK THE LINK !! YOU LIKE THE IDEA !! FOR EVEN MORE PLAYER DRIVEN CONTENT !!
Ima Wreckyou The Conference Elite CODE. 1019	Posted - 2015.05.01 01:19:45 - [103] - Quote Constructed problem around a non existing outrage mixed together with WOW and a generic CCP is a business argument.... posted from an NPC alt who is even named genericforumalt... This is such an obvious troll, but looks like people bite really hard today. So you get a 9/10 from me, because you managed to troll with such an obvious mixture. -1 because you forgot to whine about grifers, but maybe that would have been too obvious then.. well... have the 10/10 the Code ALWAYS wins
Ima Wreckyou The Conference Elite CODE. 1020	Posted - 2015.05.01 01:35:16 - [104] - Quote Iam The Flash wrote: You people are truly pathetic. You make a forum thread for like and get likes just to up your counter so it looks like people like you. You destroy null sec by infesting empire with grifer alts because you people don't want to look for fights anymore, u'd rather camp market hubs and then complain on the forums about lack of pvp in null when it's you, the so called null pvpers who are to blame. You constantly slam WoW, even tho it has over 7 million players worldwide and we don't even have 3/4 of a million because EvE is so broke it's a joke. You constantly screw up empire market prices by slamming frieghters non stop and slamming barges for lols non stop. You, the PvP population are single handedly destroying EvE and you have the audacity to come on here and COMPLAIN about ship skins and low numbers online. You use grifer alts to destroy new player corps non stop for then damn lols of it. You're pathetic. Alll the problems with EvE, you have only yourselves to blame Miner! Calm down! Better now? Is everything ok? Look it was just an internet spaceship, no one got hurt. Just get a new one and follow the Code next time. We don't need to change the game because you are bad at it, just learn how to play and everything will be good. If you like solo mmos with endles grind and zero meaning instead, WOW is this way the Code ALWAYS wins
45thtiger 0109 AL3XAND3R. 150	Posted - 2015.05.01 01:48:31 - [105] - Quote Solecist Project wrote: Freya Sertan wrote: Solecist Project wrote: And I almost thought people don't share my viewpoint anymore.... How stupid. ^_^ I had a co-worker tell me once, "We play EvE because it's better than any other game out there and by proxy, we're better as well." I couldn't argue. Quoting for absolute truth. We should do like goons do. Invade other games, create EVE guilds/whatever and just show them who's boss. RvB could do that because you guys have the numbers to do. Go Go Go and do it You Have to take the good with the bad and the bad with the good. Welcome to EvE OnLiNe
13kr1d1 Hedion University Amarr Empire 107	Posted - 2015.05.01 01:48:43 - [106] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: I don't think people have a problem with WoW refugees, or cosmetic items. The problem is when those refugees demand that Eve change its nature to suit them. In short nobody wants Eve to become gentrified. clone costs. At 5 drones of T2, the Tristan is nearly as powerful as the Algos, with a cheaper price tag, better maneuverability and speed, and smaller sig radius to avoid the lazy carebearish T3 station blapping -10s who have no life. Pick tristan for FW.
13kr1d1 Hedion University Amarr Empire 107	Posted - 2015.05.01 02:00:18 - [107] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: This thread is a shameful display of hubris. hubris is only shameful for the proletariat. At 5 drones of T2, the Tristan is nearly as powerful as the Algos, with a cheaper price tag, better maneuverability and speed, and smaller sig radius to avoid the lazy carebearish T3 station blapping -10s who have no life. Pick tristan for FW.
Rowells ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans 2364	Posted - 2015.05.01 02:04:31 - [108] - Quote 13kr1d1 wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: I don't think people have a problem with WoW refugees, or cosmetic items. The problem is when those refugees demand that Eve change its nature to suit them. In short nobody wants Eve to become gentrified. clone costs. I geuss under that reasoning, fuel blocks would work too.
Clrdark4se Bearded BattleBears Brave Collective 4	Posted - 2015.05.01 02:04:53 - [109] - Quote Freya Sertan wrote: The more players in EvE the better for the future of the game, period. More players = more money = more content = more people to shoot in the face. Come WoW refugees, come to the darkness. Come, see what online gaming REALLY is. Agreed. I came to New Eden one day while escaping a horrible "Blizzard" Luckily for me when I arrived I had found good people who showed me the way. When WoW refugees arrive pick out the bad ones and nurture the strong. STOP F'n badgering WoW players and beating down everything that is WoW and instead do what any good EvE player would do.... AWOX Blizzard and bring all their many players here
13kr1d1 Hedion University Amarr Empire 107	Posted - 2015.05.01 02:04:58 - [110] - Quote Solecist Project wrote: Staten Island wrote: Freya Sertan wrote: The more players in EvE the better for the future of the game, period. More players = more money = more content = more people to shoot in the face. Come WoW refugees, come to the darkness. Come, see what online gaming REALLY is. Except things seem to be going the other way. Back when I started playing I would log on and there would be mid to high 30k folk on during est and there was a constant drum beat from ccp about how they were going to set a record for concurrent log ins and you would see spikes into the 40s (high 40s?). Anyway these days it seems always to be in the 20s and often the low 20s. Sure CCP claimed that after "this is eve" there was a spike in new users, but IMO it doesnt seem to have made a difference long term and every one of these updates seems to be driving long term users away, with none of the hordes of mythical wow users coming into replace them. Yeah and since then CCP has been banning bots in masses ... ... ruined the RMT market ... ... introduced MCT which made lots of people reduce their account numbers ... ... banned multiplexing. Considering all of that ... ... they are doing quite well. I still see 30k+ daily. That means for the times when I check ... ... nothing much has changed. Other TZ might differ. It wouldn't matter if PCU dropped to 20k ... ... if that's the daily average. PCU is highly misleading. What matters is the amount of users per hours spread across the day. I dont like MCT or alts, because I feel they cheapen the game, but I do like the banning of multiplex and RMT/bots, and those last two things are enough to make me resub again. At 5 drones of T2, the Tristan is nearly as powerful as the Algos, with a cheaper price tag, better maneuverability and speed, and smaller sig radius to avoid the lazy carebearish T3 station blapping -10s who have no life. Pick tristan for FW.

Jarod Garamonde Jolly Codgers Get Off My Lawn 2541	Posted - 2015.05.01 02:19:21 - [111] - Quote GenericForumAlt 1267389 wrote: I've been seeing a lot more complaining than usual about the WoW refugees recently. Seems it spiked when CCP announced permanent ship skins. The people who are so quick to complain about how entitled the wow community is are in a way entitled themselves. CCP is a company and making the game more appealing or easier gets subs. I'm in a new player friendly corp in nullsec and our numbers have been swelling with people completely new to EVE, its almost 2 a day at this point. We don't get vets unsubbing and most are happy with the changes that are happening. EVE isn't "your" sandbox its "a" sandbox, yeah yeah my 15 dollars a month blah blah same argument the people in WoW use. I think its time to come to terms with the fact that EVE Online is not the same game it was 10 years ago and it will never be. Ship skins, clothing, refined UI some of the most heated topics recently are all massive revenue drivers for other companies. Of course CCP is going to add them and to think they won't try to make revenue because of the vocal minority bitching about it on the forums is just idiotic. CCP isn't going to hold their game and company profits back because you feel dissatisfied with a change that has no impact on gameplay, get over it. ^this. Every single word of this. As long as the "harsh, brutal universe" and "death matters" aspects stay, expect to see my shining face for a long time. I take breaks every now and then, but I never intend to stay gone for good. I, personally, love it here. Take the good with the bad, adapt to the changes, and give appropriate feedback to the devs. Remember that they have bills to pay. And above all else.... remember that at least they're not selling buffs for cash, like EA. That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right... `[#savethelance]`
Vector Symian 0 Fear 1053	Posted - 2015.05.01 03:38:58 - [112] - Quote GenericForumAlt 1267389 wrote: I've been seeing a lot more complaining than usual about the WoW refugees recently. Seems it spiked when CCP announced permanent ship skins. The people who are so quick to complain about how entitled the wow community is are in a way entitled themselves. CCP is a company and making the game more appealing or easier gets subs. I'm in a new player friendly corp in nullsec and our numbers have been swelling with people completely new to EVE, its almost 2 a day at this point. We don't get vets unsubbing and most are happy with the changes that are happening. EVE isn't "your" sandbox its "a" sandbox, yeah yeah my 15 dollars a month blah blah same argument the people in WoW use. I think its time to come to terms with the fact that EVE Online is not the same game it was 10 years ago and it will never be. Ship skins, clothing, refined UI some of the most heated topics recently are all massive revenue drivers for other companies. Of course CCP is going to add them and to think they won't try to make revenue because of the vocal minority bitching about it on the forums is just idiotic. CCP isn't going to hold their game and company profits back because you feel dissatisfied with a change that has no impact on gameplay, get over it. You my friend have encountered the bittervet plague, welcome to eve resist as long as possible, plus one from me bro good post o7
Otso Bakarti Aliastra Gallente Federation 133	Posted - 2015.05.01 04:54:51 - [113] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: This thread is a shameful display of hubris. You'd have been better off admitting you're not really well-versed in this subject than to demonstrate towering arrogance with a specious accusation of hubris. I survived Win95
13kr1d1 Hedion University Amarr Empire 108	Posted - 2015.05.01 05:12:49 - [114] - Quote Jarod Garamonde wrote: GenericForumAlt 1267389 wrote: I've been seeing a lot more complaining than usual about the WoW refugees recently. Seems it spiked when CCP announced permanent ship skins. The people who are so quick to complain about how entitled the wow community is are in a way entitled themselves. CCP is a company and making the game more appealing or easier gets subs. I'm in a new player friendly corp in nullsec and our numbers have been swelling with people completely new to EVE, its almost 2 a day at this point. We don't get vets unsubbing and most are happy with the changes that are happening. EVE isn't "your" sandbox its "a" sandbox, yeah yeah my 15 dollars a month blah blah same argument the people in WoW use. I think its time to come to terms with the fact that EVE Online is not the same game it was 10 years ago and it will never be. Ship skins, clothing, refined UI some of the most heated topics recently are all massive revenue drivers for other companies. Of course CCP is going to add them and to think they won't try to make revenue because of the vocal minority bitching about it on the forums is just idiotic. CCP isn't going to hold their game and company profits back because you feel dissatisfied with a change that has no impact on gameplay, get over it. ^this. Every single word of this. As long as the "harsh, brutal universe" and "death matters" aspects stay, expect to see my shining face for a long time. I take breaks every now and then, but I never intend to stay gone for good. I, personally, love it here. Take the good with the bad, adapt to the changes, and give appropriate feedback to the devs. Remember that they have bills to pay. And above all else.... remember that at least they're not selling buffs for cash, like EA. the thing about ship skins is that it meant something to have a blood raider ship. It was also a large risk to lose one because you have to replace it, but not anymore. further to the point, it is the sandbox of the people who pay for it. withouit customers, the sandbox doesnt exist. claiming otherwise is tantamount to believingi n flying turds. Suppose everyone who hate the WoW floods and you call entitled takes their 15$*x amount of accounts and leaves. I bet the hole they'd create would actually kill EvE. At 5 drones of T2, the Tristan is nearly as powerful as the Algos, with a cheaper price tag, better maneuverability and speed, and smaller sig radius to avoid the lazy carebearish T3 station blapping -10s who have no life. Pick tristan for FW.
13kr1d1 Hedion University Amarr Empire 108	Posted - 2015.05.01 06:56:19 - [115] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Kinete Jenius wrote: In my experience shooting a miner or a freighter is no different from shooting a npc rat. If people want to act like NPC rats then they'll get treated as such. Quote: The risk is all the same and your victim has no chance. The "victim" has every chance, they have access to the exact same tools and mechanics as the "griefers", that they choose not to use them is their problem. While I disagree with you on the premise that mining laser do not kill enemy ships, and that mining ships are terribly inefficient at pvp, I agree with you to the point that people can fly together, and choose not to. I continue to assert that a lot of the problems of Eve online happen to be through the people being a herd of cats. People don't want to work together. Maybe its irony that people who want to be "the ultimate badass killer" are antisocial even to the point of working together helpfully. Maybe its irony that people who want to mine alone in peace don't get that they need others watching their back to have that peaceful alone time. In the ideal eve, miners buy combat pilots who fly ops to cover a section of lowsec or high sec, these costs then being offset by raising the price of mined ore. Thats one of the problems of industry and miners. They undersell themselves so much they cant afford actual protection. Their profit margins are so low because they lack business sense, that they cant deal with any bumps of sudden necessary expenditures. In the ideal eve, people do work with other players, rather than seeing them as an inconvenience or an obstable to sole play. Why do you play an online multiplayer game to hide in a hole and play it solo? If you want to do that, there's any number of 80's-90's games of SpaceTrader(tm), that dont have a consistent sub cost, are much cheaper for the original product/cd, and achieve the same thing you're doing in this game. Of course, the other part of the problem is people who actively pirate miners, when they usually fly as someone who tries to get paid to fight for other corps in wardecs. Blowing up potential employers gets you jollies in the short run, but cuts you off from long term profits. Without cooperation, even if its just outsourcing a part of your business model, you can't survive in eve, especially as a non-combat. Ironically, as much as people using alts, to farm while they pirate with their main, can be said to be as risk averse as highsec carebears, they still actually do cooperate with others, by being part of some null alliance space where they can farm with their alts, to funnel all their profits to their main in order to fun their pvp adventures in lowsec or null. If you want to mine or play industry games solo, thats fine. I'm not saying "you should go play 90's games" if this game is what thrills you more. You'll just have to accept that as long as you're alone, you're the bottom of the food chain. That's how it would be in a single player dynamic game that responded intelligently to your behavior and activity. A single player game where bots who are smart enough to band together and counter your industrial choices or combat choices would crush you with the weight of so many of them vs one of you. The reason you win at single player games is because the game is designed to let you win. Now you're competing against other living, thinking beings who change and improve their strategies over time, and there's more of them, and they have more buying power than you. You think you're going to go anywhere alone in a game like that? This is not WoW. You can't fly solo and achieve. At 5 drones of T2, the Tristan is nearly as powerful as the Algos, with a cheaper price tag, better maneuverability and speed, and smaller sig radius to avoid the lazy carebearish T3 station blapping -10s who have no life. Pick tristan for FW.
13kr1d1 Hedion University Amarr Empire 109	Posted - 2015.05.01 07:53:01 - [116] - Quote If the WoW refugees are a direct response to the skins, the skins actually used to mean something. You bought the ship, it was special. It could blow up, and then you'd lose that skin until you shelled out a lot of isk for another one. It was a symbol of either great wealth or great PvP ability. Now its nothing. Its just like hair dye in WoW. At 5 drones of T2, the Tristan is nearly as powerful as the Algos, with a cheaper price tag, better maneuverability and speed, and smaller sig radius to avoid the lazy carebearish T3 station blapping -10s who have no life. Pick tristan for FW.
Gerhard Stringfellow Fisherbody Trading Company 15	Posted - 2015.05.01 12:33:31 - [117] - Quote I enjoy seeing posts complaining about how EvE doesn't hold your hand in threads touting how great EvE is because it doesn't hold your hand. It almost saves me the trouble of telling you to go back to WoW. If you really don't like getting ganked in Hi-sec, join a null corp. Another pubbie elite PvE pay to win mining carebear
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 22681	Posted - 2015.05.01 12:51:29 - [118] - Quote 13kr1d1 wrote: You can't fly solo and achieve. Sure you can. Everyone can. Most just aren't capable of doing so. Like all the weaklings in RvB, EVEUNI l, BNI, NullSec, CODE., ... A shitton of nonachievers who are nothing without the group. DOES YELLING ANNOY YOU ? LIKE MY IDEA BELOW AND I WILL REMOVE IT !! Corpses4Drifters CLICK THE LINK !! YOU LIKE THE IDEA !! FOR EVEN MORE PLAYER DRIVEN CONTENT !!
Ma'Baker McCandless The McCandless Clan 97	Posted - 2015.05.01 13:55:42 - [119] - Quote I was going to reply to that tirade of abuse but; 1) I am truly pathetic, apparently. 2) Ramona isn't available to speak in my place.
The Golden Serpent Kokutai 24	Posted - 2015.05.01 14:18:38 - [120] - Quote I think WoW and Eve are both good games...totally different though. The worst part about WoW is the customer service sucks when you need help, it will take 1-3 days. Eve is like, 5 minutes! The title is a little misleading cuz WoW hasn't gone away at all, people always unsub after the expansion gets a little old. I am not playing WoW because their archaeology system is really frustrating, and their PvP requires too much time investment to really enjoy. I feel like I can put 1-2 hours into Factional Warfare in Eve every day and actually get somewhere. I don't know why I got into WoW's archaeology system, probably the "Boring" factor that made me feel relaxed. Eve does "boring" much better though. The name of the server describes it perfectly: Tranquility. Then I joined faction warfare! Also I love the fact that there is time to roleplay during fights, it's not like that in WoW. Cuz you can talk to your enemy over comms while docked or in another part of the solar system. Theres no time for roleplaying in WoW or means to roleplay without losing precious time doing whatever grind you are on. It's just a very different game from WoW, I don't see why they are being compared or why people think WoW people are coming to Eve. Eve is not the kind of game I see most WoW players going for. High fantasy is so different from Sci fi.

Ma'Baker McCandless The McCandless Clan 97	Posted - 2015.05.01 14:24:34 - [121] - Quote Gerhard Stringfellow wrote: If you really don't like getting ganked in Hi-sec.... ...stop making yourself a target and get some paranoia, goddamnit. It aint hard.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 22689	Posted - 2015.05.01 14:26:07 - [122] - Quote I'll pick this apart. 13kr1d1 wrote: ... > While I disagree with you on the premise that mining laser do not kill enemy ships, > and that mining ships are terribly inefficient at pvp, > I agree with you to the point that people can fly together, and choose not to. Mining lasers kill enemy ships? Am I misunderstanding? I'm not sure how effeciency matters, but skiffs are badass ships for combat. The drone bonus makes quite a difference. (that's why the Fozzman added it) > I continue to assert that a lot of the problems of Eve online happen to be through the people being a herd of cats. > People don't want to work together. More accurately speaking, most people only care about themselves and only see exactly that far. These people can be actually observed through their ingame actions, their chatting and their posts. > Maybe its irony that people who want to be "the ultimate badass killer" are antisocial > even to the point of working together helpfully. Not sure what the Irony would be here. Who are you referring to anyway? People like CODE ? I'm wondering, because this applies to the actual griefers, the carebears. They are extremely antisocial, literally hate on everyone who doesn't agree with them, especially hate on the players and not the characters, and they always somehow pretend to be badass and superior, while only shooting NPCs. And it's not a coincidence that so many of them pick the amarrian race. Many many people of the wester "civilised" world unknowingly live by the motto: Ignorance is Strength. Anyone who doesn't see how this applies might be a part of the problem. > Maybe its irony that people who want to mine alone in peace > don't get that they need others watching their back to have that peaceful alone time. Again ... no clue about the irony. They do that, because they desire the isolation. Not having to deal with others avoids any risk of having to be confronted with one's own inadequacies. > In the ideal eve, miners buy combat pilots who fly ops to cover a section of lowsec or high sec, > these costs then being offset by raising the price of mined ore. > Thats one of the problems of industry and miners. > They undersell themselves so much they cant afford actual protection. This needs correction, because you make a conclusion based on only a fraction of the information. First, there must be a part in this group who simply does not know better. "Minerals I mine are free" pretty much equals either cluelessness about time management. People who exchange time for ISK still have a point, but it's a rather isolated and inefficient one. > Their profit margins are so low because they lack business sense, > that they cant deal with any bumps of sudden necessary expenditures. And here's the thing. The margins don't matter at all. The majority of people simply does not even consider it for various reasons. It's either unknowingness about how the game works and how this is actually possible ... ... or it's part of the "Ignorance is Strength" livestyle and thus equally unknown to them. You might want to call it a limited spectrum of thoughts and ideas. Ignorance. > In the ideal eve, people do work with other players, > rather than seeing them as an inconvenience or an obstable to sole play. I agree, that'd be ideal. And I also agree that at some point in time many, many players will realise others as inconvencience, annoyance or an obstacle ... with various ways of reactions. > Why do you play an online multiplayer game to hide in a hole and play it solo? > If you want to do that, there's any number of 80's-90's games of SpaceTrader(tm), > that dont have a consistent sub cost, are much cheaper for the original product/cd, > and achieve the same thing you're doing in this game. These people do that, because that's how they work. Ignorance is Strength, or they don't know better. I can not tell if MMOs turned these people into that, or if the MMOs adapted to people being like that, but the MMO market pretty much works that way. (1/2) DOES YELLING ANNOY YOU ? LIKE MY IDEA BELOW AND I WILL REMOVE IT !! Corpses4Drifters CLICK THE LINK !! YOU LIKE THE IDEA !! FOR EVEN MORE PLAYER DRIVEN CONTENT !!
Ma'Baker McCandless The McCandless Clan 97	Posted - 2015.05.01 14:31:47 - [123] - Quote Why the hate for Amarr :(
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 22689	Posted - 2015.05.01 14:32:35 - [124] - Quote It targets these people. They offer a lie of a massively multiplaying world where thousands play together, while actually giving people exactly what they want. Isolation and the illusion of being superior. Again here the hint at the amarrians. > Of course, the other part of the problem is people who actively pirate miners, > when they usually fly as someone who tries to get paid to fight for other corps in wardecs. > Blowing up potential employers gets you jollies in the short run, but cuts you off from long term profits. I would agree on that if it wasn't for the fact that people who get killed most likely had no idea about it, or simply did not care enough to tank or hire protection. Protection, btw, collides with the fake idea of being superior to others. > Without cooperation, even if its just outsourcing a part of your business model, > you can't survive in eve, especially as a non-combat. I disagree, but it's far beyond the abilities of these people. > Ironically, as much as people using alts, to farm while they pirate with their main, > can be said to be as risk averse as highsec carebears, they still actually do cooperate with others, > by being part of some null alliance space where they can farm with their alts, > to funnel all their profits to their main in order to fun their pvp adventures in lowsec or null. That's a bit limited, because not everyone does that. I don't do it. I don't farm anywhere, actually. I'm sure that most people in highsec also don't have a null-alt, but we might find out eventually. > The reason you win at single player games is because the game is designed to let you win. Which also applies to MMOs. Except EVE, of course. In this post, when I mention MMOs, then I always talk about the ones who do not actually deserve the title. There. Much more verbose. In any way do we most likely have to live with the fact that things will not change. It will just get worse, as these people will spawn children who are most likely going to be even worse than that. What's really funny about this is the fact that it was predicted a long time ago that people will turn into this. DOES YELLING ANNOY YOU ? LIKE MY IDEA BELOW AND I WILL REMOVE IT !! Corpses4Drifters CLICK THE LINK !! YOU LIKE THE IDEA !! FOR EVEN MORE PLAYER DRIVEN CONTENT !!
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 22689	Posted - 2015.05.01 14:41:07 - [125] - Quote The Golden Serpent wrote: I think WoW and Eve are both good games...totally different though. Just want to take this line as it fits. I agree, depending on the POV. If you say that WoW is a good came for reaching it's target audience ... yes, absolutely. On the other hand it's a freaking nightmare how WoW and almost every other game actually makes the whole situation worse, because they do not even try to engineer people. Companies don't want proper gamers who love challenges ... ... they want people they can easily manipulate ... ... so they have it easier to satisfy their lower instincts. Same, btw, goes for eye-candy. So if we watch it from this POV, WoW is one of the worst games in existence. I played in the 80s and 90s. Most games out there are no challenge at all ... ... deliberately avoid making people actually think ... ... and target the lowest common denominator. These are the ones who are too stupid for a challenge ... ... constantly want to remind themselves how great they are ... ... and at the same time the easiest to manipulate and milk. Welcome to 2015. At some point in time companies realised how psychology and neuroscience can be used to slowly engineer the upcoming generation of gamers into addicted, paying idiots. And then there comes someone like Feyd who seems to have adapted carebear-logic ... ... and believes that removing risk somehow fixes risk-averse behavior instead of actually reinforcing it. DOES YELLING ANNOY YOU ? LIKE MY IDEA BELOW AND I WILL REMOVE IT !! Corpses4Drifters CLICK THE LINK !! YOU LIKE THE IDEA !! FOR EVEN MORE PLAYER DRIVEN CONTENT !!
SpaceyJoe Mentat Kollectorz 0	Posted - 2015.05.01 17:46:06 - [126] - Quote Ma'Baker McCandless wrote: SpaceyJoe Mentat wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Catering to the same player base as most other MMO is not a safe bet. Look at all the wow killers... Eve has pretty securely established its niche in the PVP gaming community: Eve = World PVP king WoW = Arena and BG ESO = AvA PS2 = mmofps LoL = "E Sport" king Cash shops are popping up all over the industry; until ccp makes an instanced arena/bg system they aren't catering to the WoW pvp crowd. Why would they want to? Never said they did, just making the point that WoW's niche is not their cash shop... and the cash shop is not why people play WoW. Ma'Baker McCandless wrote: And just no. Just totally no. Your list... no. Eve- Whats a better/bigger world PVP based game? WoW- What is a bigger and longer running arena/bg based PVP game? ESO - New, but elder scrolls franchise and is about to drop on console, one to watch ;) Planetside franchise- what is a longer running and more populated mmofps? League of legend- lol just check the twitch numbers on that one if you haven't seen them... 100k+ viewers constantly. What is you argument beyond a pretentious scoff?
Ma'Baker McCandless The McCandless Clan 106	Posted - 2015.05.01 17:53:57 - [127] - Quote SpaceyJoe Mentat wrote: Eve- Whats a better/bigger world PVP based game? WoW- What is a bigger and longer running arena/bg based PVP game? ESO - New, but elder scrolls franchise and is about to drop on console, one to watch ;) Planetside franchise- what is a longer running and more populated mmofps? League of legend- lol just check the twitch numbers on that one if you haven't seen them... 100k+ viewers constantly. What is you argument beyond a pretentious scoff? Defensive, aren't we? My "scoff" is based on the fact that your arbitrary choices and reasons are just that; arbitrary. EvE isn't a PvP based game, in that PvP is not the core mechanic that the game exists around. Now, Im sure you will give me some guff about every action being some kind of PvP, but at the end of the day the game was not designed soley as a player vs Player battle game. Otherwise, why do all the other things exist and why is the combat engine so... poor? WoW is not an Arena game primarily. Dont be ridiculous. ESO will be dead within 18months. Planetside? No idea. Pass. Dont know any one who plays it so I cant comment other than it looks dull as hell. League: sorry if you think League is popular I guess you never heard of Starcraft. Also popularity is no guage of quality. Also, World of Tanks isnt even on your list, and has one of the best FTP models in the industry. So basically, I scoff at your list because it shows no research and is little better than an IGN poll. And none of these games are the same genre as EvE, so this list is meaningless
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 22714	Posted - 2015.05.01 18:25:41 - [128] - Quote Ma'Baker McCandless wrote: Why the hate for Amarr :( It's not my fault. Just look at what they portrait. They are the self perceived master race. They are extremely religious. They have slaves. They even look like assholes. I am talking about that one subrace specifically. "The old men". I never played Amarr, I don't recall them. If you know the lore, then you know what I am talking about. Now just combine and compare the typical characteristica of hating carebears, amarrians and religious people in the US and conservatives. A strong tendency to hypocrisy is one of the many they all share, as example. If "superiority complex" comes to your mind ... ... then you hit the nail on the head. Of course there are varying degrees of everything, but the general tendency is actually observable! (I often wonder if posts like these make people reconsider and influence the meta) We can, in fact, find people who strongly tend to behave like this literally everywhere. They also have a tendency to post on the forums. I drifted off "Amarrians" a bit. :p DOES YELLING ANNOY YOU ? LIKE MY IDEA BELOW AND I WILL REMOVE IT !! Corpses4Drifters CLICK THE LINK !! YOU LIKE THE IDEA !! FOR EVEN MORE PLAYER DRIVEN CONTENT !!
Ma'Baker McCandless The McCandless Clan 107	Posted - 2015.05.01 18:33:25 - [129] - Quote Sorry I offend you with my presence
Freya Sertan Tyrell Heavy Industries 102	Posted - 2015.05.01 20:23:02 - [130] - Quote I can't possibly offend due to being Amarrian. I'm way too hot to offend.

Yobu Khan Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 0	Posted - 2015.05.01 21:31:35 - [131] - Quote Solecist Project wrote: 13kr1d1 wrote: You can't fly solo and achieve. Sure you can. Everyone can. Most just aren't capable of doing so. Like all the weaklings in RvB, EVEUNI l, BNI, NullSec, CODE., ... A shitton of nonachievers who are nothing without the group. Eh , i hate to break it to u , but u arent special or anything.Capable? Its a point and click game, Hello? If smebody is running around more cocky than somebody else its 98 % Cause : 1.some millions more skills 2.some billion more ISK. 3.some more buddies 4.some x years of experience that 2 % remaining is propably the "Capable".
Seven Koskanaiken Positive Failure Black Legion. 1496	Posted - 2015.05.01 21:54:04 - [132] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: I don't think people have a problem with WoW refugees, or cosmetic items. The problem is when those refugees demand that Eve change its nature to suit them. In short nobody wants Eve to become gentrified. Too late. Reddit has already moved in.
Gerhard Stringfellow Fisherbody Trading Company 17	Posted - 2015.05.01 21:56:09 - [133] - Quote Yobu Khan wrote: Solecist Project wrote: [quote=13kr1d1]You can't fly solo and achieve. Sure you can. Everyone can. Most just aren't capable of doing so. Like all the weaklings in RvB, EVEUNI l, BNI, NullSec, CODE., ... A shitton of nonachievers who are nothing without the group. Except that it does show capability to create fleet doctrines, manage somehow to keep a group together (no shortage of corps can't even do that), and make your goals interesting enough that people will continue to listen to you when they could quit at any time. If you don't like the fact that you're getting killed by larger numbers, it doesn't mean they aren't "skilled", it just means you don't understand a lesson that certainly applies in EvE and also in life. My guess is if you don't like groups, you're probably "elite solo pve" in hi-sec, which is anything but that. EvE is a social game, and if you try to play it solo you're going to be an appetizing target for getting space jumped. And it's kind of silly to criticize it for people being overly social, considering what generally draws people to the game now are the reports of big battles and how active the playerbase is in creating content (null empires). Honestly, without the stories created by null-sec, CODE, and the other active organizations, the story for EvE isn't very compelling in inspiring the playerbase (compared to having grown up on WC2 and WC3 and finally having had an opportunity to explore it with an avatar in WoW) but regardless EvE is an infinitely better and more interesting game because it gives players so much freedom to affect the universe, but like anything there is a real limit to what one person can do, and the way people really become wealthy and powerful is by involving other people. But trying to fall back on "they don't have skill because there are lots of them" only serves to illustrate how little you understand the game and the tasks that go with being anything other than a kitchen sink FC. Another pubbie elite PvE pay to win mining carebear
Herateis State Protectorate Caldari State 7	Posted - 2015.05.01 23:47:45 - [134] - Quote The Golden Serpent wrote: I think WoW and Eve are both good games...totally different though. The worst part about WoW is the customer service sucks when you need help, it will take 1-3 days. Eve is like, 5 minutes! The title is a little misleading cuz WoW hasn't gone away at all, people always unsub after the expansion gets a little old. I am not playing WoW because their archaeology system is really frustrating, and their PvP requires too much time investment to really enjoy. I feel like I can put 1-2 hours into Factional Warfare in Eve every day and actually get somewhere. I don't know why I got into WoW's archaeology system, probably the "Boring" factor that made me feel relaxed. Eve does "boring" much better though. The name of the server describes it perfectly: Tranquility. Then I joined faction warfare! Also I love the fact that there is time to roleplay during fights, it's not like that in WoW. Cuz you can talk to your enemy over comms while docked or in another part of the solar system. Theres no time for roleplaying in WoW or means to roleplay without losing precious time doing whatever grind you are on. It's just a very different game from WoW, I don't see why they are being compared or why people think WoW people are coming to Eve. Eve is not the kind of game I see most WoW players going for. High fantasy is so different from Sci fi. I quit after the first expansion for those blood elves made all my hard work gear worthless. It is kind of fun to play WoW, but I'd definitely play it for free or a very low cost, rather than the high monthly sub + expansion prices. WoW vanilla was a decent game. the PvE aspect of threat management to have a group achieve something was fun. Other than that it lost its appeal when expansions made earlier content worthless to raid and turned purple level 60 stuff into trash compared to green level 62 stuff from draeni.
Jenshae Chiroptera 1441	Posted - 2015.05.02 00:35:48 - [135] - Quote Quote: Like all the weaklings in RvB, EVEUNI l, BNI, NullSec, CODE., ... A shitton of nonachievers who are nothing without the group. EVE is not the hero's journey. You aren't going to grind up XP and then blow away 100 n00bs solo. (Does anyone else just scroll past Solecist's poems like badly written credits to the end of a film?) CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids . High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow Fozzie is treating a symptom.
Gerhard Stringfellow Fisherbody Trading Company 18	Posted - 2015.05.02 00:48:16 - [136] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Quote: Like all the weaklings in RvB, EVEUNI l, BNI, NullSec, CODE., ... A shitton of nonachievers who are nothing without the group. EVE is not the hero's journey. You aren't going to grind up XP and then blow away 100 n00bs solo. (Does anyone else just scroll past Solecist's poems like badly written credits to the end of a film?) I may have skipped a few parts myself. Another pubbie elite PvE pay to win mining carebear
Avaelica Kuershin 46	Posted - 2015.05.02 01:21:47 - [137] - Quote SpaceyJoe Mentat wrote: oint that WoW's niche is not their cash shop... and the cash shop is not why people play WoW. WoW- What is a bigger and longer running arena/bg based PVP game? I agree with Ma'Baker... Now if WoW really was such an arean/battleground PvP game, why is the "hero's journey" the focus of each expansion? (in hindsight, a six month sub was 5 months too long)
Omar Alharazaad Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 1551	Posted - 2015.05.02 06:31:55 - [138] - Quote Earth and Beyond refugee here, and still wondering where all the fish went. I tried WoW for a couple months in the wayback and it just failed to hook me. Of course this was after I finally put EQ to rest and had been playing EVE for a while. It struck me as mindnumbingly simple and a tad more grindy than I was willing to endure... I'd put up with grind/timesink crap from EQ for enough years, so wasn't really keen on doing it again. I do feel a limited form of sympathy for longtime players of WoW and similar games who come over to EVE. Most of them simply aren't going to survive the experience, much like a bunny or a squirrel that runs out in front of a car. It's sad to see the little critter go, but physics is a harsh mistress and they made a choice to do a dangerous thing. I think most of these critters don't grasp that the simple act of undocking is a dangerous thing, despite there being warning, and end up fairly well shocked when that thing happens. It's the behavior after the event that matters. If they leave, that's fine. If they stay, cool. If they rant and rave and push for the game to change to prevent future tragedies such as their own... then we have a problem. I keep a thoughtgun next to the bed, fully loaded with nerdshot. Just in case.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 22757	Posted - 2015.05.02 06:35:35 - [139] - Quote Like a bunny or a squirrel ... LOL! :D DOES YELLING ANNOY YOU ? LIKE MY IDEA BELOW AND I WILL REMOVE IT !! Corpses4Drifters CLICK THE LINK !! YOU LIKE THE IDEA !! FOR EVEN MORE PLAYER DRIVEN CONTENT !!
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 22765	Posted - 2015.05.02 06:46:33 - [140] - Quote Gerhard Stringfellow wrote: Yobu Khan wrote: Solecist Project wrote: [quote=13kr1d1]You can't fly solo and achieve. Sure you can. Everyone can. Most just aren't capable of doing so. Like all the weaklings in RvB, EVEUNI l, BNI, NullSec, CODE., ... A shitton of nonachievers who are nothing without the group. Except that it does show capability to create fleet doctrines, manage somehow to keep a group together (no shortage of corps can't even do that), and make your goals interesting enough that people will continue to listen to you when they could quit at any time. If you don't like the fact that you're getting killed by larger numbers, it doesn't mean they aren't "skilled", it just means you don't understand a lesson that certainly applies in EvE and also in life. My guess is if you don't like groups, you're probably "elite solo pve" in hi-sec, which is anything but that. EvE is a social game, and if you try to play it solo you're going to be an appetizing target for getting space jumped. And it's kind of silly to criticize it for people being overly social, considering what generally draws people to the game now are the reports of big battles and how active the playerbase is in creating content (null empires). Honestly, without the stories created by null-sec, CODE, and the other active organizations, the story for EvE isn't very compelling in inspiring the playerbase (compared to having grown up on WC2 and WC3 and finally having had an opportunity to explore it with an avatar in WoW) but regardless EvE is an infinitely better and more interesting game because it gives players so much freedom to affect the universe, but like anything there is a real limit to what one person can do, and the way people really become wealthy and powerful is by involving other people. But trying to fall back on "they don't have skill because there are lots of them" only serves to illustrate how little you understand the game and the tasks that go with being anything other than a kitchen sink FC. So you agree that most people aren't capable. They need others, FCs, to hold their hand. F1 pushers aren't solo achievers either. That's reality in all of these big groups. Stopped at half, because you are ignorant of paragraphs. Maybe learn reading and interpreting text properly. DOES YELLING ANNOY YOU ? LIKE MY IDEA BELOW AND I WILL REMOVE IT !! Corpses4Drifters CLICK THE LINK !! YOU LIKE THE IDEA !! FOR EVEN MORE PLAYER DRIVEN CONTENT !!

Omar Alharazaad Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 1551	Posted - 2015.05.02 06:51:07 - [141] - Quote On the other side of the coin.... EVE can seriously ruin a player's ability to adapt to and enjoy other types of MMO as well. After a while you get the whole 'predator/prey' mindset going on and start to view those around you in that manner. With effort I've managed to suppress this while interacting with others in the past, but it does tend to cause awkward moments when folks ask you about what you did in EVE. Something something frozen corpses, something something mountain of loot taken from player wrecks... why did comms just go super quiet? I keep a thoughtgun next to the bed, fully loaded with nerdshot. Just in case.
Josef Djugashvilis 2947	Posted - 2015.05.02 06:59:28 - [142] - Quote Harrison Tato wrote: Aren't we special? lol Prety much sums up what is wrong with some Eve players. Elite because one plays a particular computer game...Jeez, get a life. This is not a signature.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 25112	Posted - 2015.05.02 07:10:21 - [143] - Quote Ma'Baker McCandless wrote: My "scoff" is based on the fact that your arbitrary choices and reasons are just that; arbitrary. EvE isn't a PvP based game, in that PvP is not the core mechanic that the game exists around. Now, Im sure you will give me some guff about every action being some kind of PvP, but at the end of the day the game was not designed soley as a player vs Player battle game. Otherwise, why do all the other things exist and why is the combat engine so... poor? EVE is a 100% PvP based games in that every core game mechanic revolves around PvP, even the ones that are ostensibly PvE. There are three parts to EVE: the market, industry, and combat. The market runs because combat creates demand for industry to supply, and that demand can only be held high by player conflict generating enough combat losses. Industry is a player conflict over resources and over customers and also generates a supply of combat targets (be it players or installations). The market is perhaps the fiercest PvP arena in the game, where billions of ISK is won or lost on trying to beat the other guy to the best price and trying to predict where the herd will move next. All of it is PvP; all of it relies on PvP; all of it exists to supply and provide PvP; if you remove PvP from the game, the game instantly comes to a halt and ceases to function GÇö that is what makes it a PvP-based game, not some arbitrary (and rather incorrect) value judgement of GÇ£the combat engineGÇ¥ (or indeed any other minor cog in the machinery). By the way, the combat engine isn't poor. The combat engine is simply scaled to cope with the size of conflicts needed to feed the machinery of industry and economy at a sufficient pace. It is fit for purpose, and that purpose is to keep the world turning. The game was designed from the ground up to be a large-scale PvP battle game, and the world simulation, like everything else, is designed with that in mind. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
Remiel Pollard Against All Odds. 6581	Posted - 2015.05.02 07:49:25 - [144] - Quote What Tippia said. TLDR: EVE was designed from the outset with PVP in mind, and being intended as a PVP game, everything that isn't PVP is intended to accommodate PVP. Denial and/or refusal to accept this will only make the game harder on you. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Oxide Ammar 197	Posted - 2015.05.02 08:59:47 - [145] - Quote Paranoid Loyd wrote: Iam The Flash wrote: You people are truly pathetic. You make a forum thread for like and get likes just to up your counter so it looks like people like you. You destroy null sec by infesting empire with grifer alts because you people don't want to look for fights anymore, u'd rather camp market hubs and then complain on the forums about lack of pvp in null when it's you, the so called null pvpers who are to blame. You constantly slam WoW, even tho it has over 7 million players worldwide and we don't even have 3/4 of a million because EvE is so broke it's a joke. You constantly screw up empire market prices by slamming frieghters non stop and slamming barges for lols non stop. You, the PvP population are single handedly destroying EvE and you have the audacity to come on here and COMPLAIN about ship skins and low numbers online. You use grifer alts to destroy new player corps non stop for then damn lols of it. You're pathetic. Alll the problems with EvE, you have only yourselves to blame Glorious tears. You people Also, I looked at the LAGL thread, I see you posted there a few times, hypocrite. It doesn't matter, he still right about what he said. Lady Areola Fappington: -áSolo PVP isn't dead!-á You just need to make sure you have your booster, remote rep, cyno, and emergency Falcon alts logged in and ready before you do any solo PVPing.
Darek Castigatus Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel 662	Posted - 2015.05.02 09:33:02 - [146] - Quote Oxide Ammar wrote: Paranoid Loyd wrote: Iam The Flash wrote: You people are truly pathetic. You make a forum thread for like and get likes just to up your counter so it looks like people like you. You destroy null sec by infesting empire with grifer alts because you people don't want to look for fights anymore, u'd rather camp market hubs and then complain on the forums about lack of pvp in null when it's you, the so called null pvpers who are to blame. You constantly slam WoW, even tho it has over 7 million players worldwide and we don't even have 3/4 of a million because EvE is so broke it's a joke. You constantly screw up empire market prices by slamming frieghters non stop and slamming barges for lols non stop. You, the PvP population are single handedly destroying EvE and you have the audacity to come on here and COMPLAIN about ship skins and low numbers online. You use grifer alts to destroy new player corps non stop for then damn lols of it. You're pathetic. Alll the problems with EvE, you have only yourselves to blame Glorious tears. You people Also, I looked at the LAGL thread, I see you posted there a few times, hypocrite. It doesn't matter, he still right about what he said. No, no he isnt, the only even vaguely valid point he has is a petulant whine about what people chose to do on an internet forum. As for his idiotic comment about WoW he does realise what a niche market is right?? Eve was never designed as a mass market MMO so trying to compare simple sub numbers while ignoring every other factor is just plain stupid. Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin you're welcome
Yobu Khan Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 0	Posted - 2015.05.02 11:08:15 - [147] - Quote Josef Djugashvilis wrote: Harrison Tato wrote: Aren't we special? lol Prety much sums up what is wrong with some Eve players. Elite because one plays a particular computer game...Jeez, get a life.
Gerhard Stringfellow Fisherbody Trading Company 19	Posted - 2015.05.02 12:40:42 - [148] - Quote Solecist Project wrote: Gerhard Stringfellow wrote: Yobu Khan wrote: Solecist Project wrote: [quote=13kr1d1]You can't fly solo and achieve. Sure you can. Everyone can. Most just aren't capable of doing so. Like all the weaklings in RvB, EVEUNI l, BNI, NullSec, CODE., ... A shitton of nonachievers who are nothing without the group. Except that it does show capability to create fleet doctrines, manage somehow to keep a group together (no shortage of corps can't even do that), and make your goals interesting enough that people will continue to listen to you when they could quit at any time. If you don't like the fact that you're getting killed by larger numbers, it doesn't mean they aren't "skilled", it just means you don't understand a lesson that certainly applies in EvE and also in life. My guess is if you don't like groups, you're probably "elite solo pve" in hi-sec, which is anything but that. EvE is a social game, and if you try to play it solo you're going to be an appetizing target for getting space jumped. And it's kind of silly to criticize it for people being overly social, considering what generally draws people to the game now are the reports of big battles and how active the playerbase is in creating content (null empires). Honestly, without the stories created by null-sec, CODE, and the other active organizations, the story for EvE isn't very compelling in inspiring the playerbase (compared to having grown up on WC2 and WC3 and finally having had an opportunity to explore it with an avatar in WoW) but regardless EvE is an infinitely better and more interesting game because it gives players so much freedom to affect the universe, but like anything there is a real limit to what one person can do, and the way people really become wealthy and powerful is by involving other people. But trying to fall back on "they don't have skill because there are lots of them" only serves to illustrate how little you understand the game and the tasks that go with being anything other than a kitchen sink FC. So you agree that most people aren't capable. They need others, FCs, to hold their hand. F1 pushers aren't solo achievers either. That's reality in all of these big groups. Stopped at half, because you are ignorant of paragraphs. Maybe learn reading and interpreting text properly. It's alright, all you really missed was me waxing about WC2 and WC3, which were both super, and how indirectly I'd secretly in my heart of hearts wished WoW would be like EvE in Azeroth in terms of open endedness. Back to the point, I wouldn't say FC's do as much as hand holding as they do keeping fleets organized for the task at hand, at least when it's done properly. I'd ask what you want EvE to be if you don't like fleets and alliances; should there be a quest to slay the Amarr Emperor and uncover an insidious plot to overthrow all of hi-sec by NPC's for l337 PvE action? And everybody should get to make multiple runs of it to get cool purple l337 items for their ships? If that's what makes you as a solo player feel special and accomplished, there's a grocery list of MMO's out there that do just that. What makes EvE cool is the fact that if they ever make a real history of this game it will be something other than stupid adventure scenarios dreamed up by bad writers. Another pubbie elite PvE pay to win mining carebear
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai 3488	Posted - 2015.05.02 14:04:21 - [149] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: GenericForumAlt 1267389 wrote: ... CCP is a company and making the game more appealing or easier gets subs. ... ... and yet, the easier EVE gets the lower the average online players drops if you look at 3 months, 6 months, year and 5 years. I agree that CCP can reduce complexity but not at the expense of depth. Maybe it's the opposite correlation... EVE gets "easier" as the future prospects grow bleaker. See, I've been sporting for years that my view of the elephant is right. EVE is a game that's being paid for by people who don't like it, who play it wrong, who are not in it for the PvP. Can we count individuals? Yes we can. CCP did. It turns that 62% of all the subscribers (individuals who give money to CCP) avoid or ignore PvP. Or, in other words, PvP only interests 38% of the subscribers. So this your precious PvP game: it's being paid for by PvErs. Can we count where do characters stay? Yes we can. CCP did. It turns that 80% of all characters logged in stay in high security space. Can we count the damage (HP) inflicted by players? Yes we can. CCP did. I turns that NPCs take 150 damage for each HP of damage inflicted on player assets. See a pattern here? Pick a random EVE player, and you have 62% chances that he's not PvPing, 80% chances that he's in highsec and 150 to 1 chances that he's doing damage to NPCs rather than other players... The average EVE player is a highsec PvEr The key of EVE's success it's been to churn PvErs happily while bragging about PvP. That's not unusual; marketing and reality rarely meet each other. The only little issue is that EVE had the less-worst PvE in industry, but now faces the competence from games whose PvE may be better than EVE's. Plus, EVE has been exploiting a limited pool of PvErs who still hadn't tried EVE, and that pool may be drying up after 12 years of exploitation. The Greater Fool Bar_ is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! _
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 22998	Posted - 2015.05.02 14:30:51 - [150] - Quote Citation needed. Carebears over and over again have shown that they make up numbers. There is absolutely no reason to believe anything you have written, at all. Not only do I not trust your ability to not be fooled by your own prejudice ... ... but I also do not trust your ability to seperate between players and characters. So ... citation. Unlike carebears, people like me actually care about numbers and don't make **** up. DOES YELLING ANNOY YOU ? LIKE MY IDEA BELOW AND I WILL REMOVE IT !! Corpses4Drifters CLICK THE LINK !! YOU LIKE THE IDEA !! FOR EVEN MORE PLAYER DRIVEN CONTENT !!

Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 22999	Posted - 2015.05.02 14:38:48 - [151] - Quote Gerhard Stringfellow wrote: Back to the point, I wouldn't say FC's do as much as hand holding as they do keeping fleets organized for the task at hand, at least when it's done properly. I'd ask what you want EvE to be if you don't like fleets and alliances; should there be a quest to slay the Amarr Emperor and uncover an insidious plot to overthrow all of hi-sec by NPC's for l337 PvE action? And everybody should get to make multiple runs of it to get cool purple l337 items for their ships? If that's what makes you as a solo player feel special and accomplished, there's a grocery list of MMO's out there that do just that. What makes EvE cool is the fact that if they ever make a real history of this game it will be something other than stupid adventure scenarios dreamed up by bad writers. Without FCs many people would not play at all. If you doubt that, go check out RvB ... that's just one, but massive, example. It was the same when I checked out BNI. People do not do anything unless there's someone holding their hand for them. Except whining about the lack of FCs. This went so overboard that there's now a reward program for people who want to FC. Think about what that means. It means that the majority of people are followers ... ... sheep ... ... who need a figure of authority to tell them what to do. And then most they do is press F1. I have no idea why you now turn this into something about me. I am in no way or form the average solo player. And just because I play solo ... ... doesn't mean I play isolated. There's a major difference between the two. I do not need other people to tell me what to do. It's me who gets things done. DOES YELLING ANNOY YOU ? LIKE MY IDEA BELOW AND I WILL REMOVE IT !! Corpses4Drifters CLICK THE LINK !! YOU LIKE THE IDEA !! FOR EVEN MORE PLAYER DRIVEN CONTENT !!
Remiel Pollard Against All Odds. 6582	Posted - 2015.05.02 14:41:32 - [152] - Quote Citations? CITATIONS!? WE DON'T NEED NO STINKIN' CITATIONS! Everyone KNOWS the moon landing was an inside job and 9/11 was staged on a Hollywood set. Citations are just another stonewalling method for the power elite to keep their secrets and keep us enslaved, WAKE UP SHEEPLE! GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Remiel Pollard Against All Odds. 6582	Posted - 2015.05.02 14:44:15 - [153] - Quote Solecist Project wrote: I have no idea why you now turn this into something about me. Admit it, you love the attention. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Tristan Valentina Moira. Villore Accords 38	Posted - 2015.05.02 17:07:18 - [154] - Quote Why do people keep thinking that the public cares what they see? My only complaint with CCP is that they dont understand what micro means (The change in my wallet CCP not the bills.) But again I ask the OP and everyone else why would the public care about what you as an individual have seen? Video game forums are like the only place I see this and it really is starting to need an expliantion. Maybe I just spend to much time looking at the IGS. Tristan
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai 3490	Posted - 2015.05.02 17:37:27 - [155] - Quote Solecist Project wrote: Citation needed. Carebears over and over again have shown that they make up numbers. There is absolutely no reason to believe anything you have written, at all. Not only do I not trust your ability to not be fooled by your own prejudice ... ... but I also do not trust your ability to seperate between players and characters. So ... citation. Unlike carebears, people like me actually care about numbers and don't make **** up. You ask numbers, I give you numbers. On what do subscribers pay for with their money: https://youtu.be/gJlNGtXts_E?t=21m20s "Professionals" (do everything): 30% "Entrepreneurs" (do everything but PvP): 25% "Agressors" (only do PvP and socialize): 8% "Socials" (they mostly socialize and skillqueue online): 12% "Traditionals" (They PvE and play EVE as a traditional MMO): 25% 25% +25% +12% =62% of players who barely do PvP. On where are characters logged in: https://twitter.com/CCPQuant/status/590854488405192704/photo/1 (My fault. It's ~75% characters in high security, not 80%... we could use a larger image, though) On how is inficted damage: https://youtu.be/gJlNGtXts_E?t=15m30s CONCORD to players: 3 million HP/day Players to Players: 385 million HP/day NPC to players: 4,400 million HP/day Players to structures: 4,600 million HP/day Players to NPCs: 24,000 million HP/day My fault, too. It's only 62 times more damage to NPCs than to players. So you have this game where 62% of players rarely engage in PvP, where 75% of characters stay in the parts of map with lesser chance of PvP and where players inflict 62 HP of damage to NPCs for each HP they inflict upon other players... Obviously it's a PvP game, right? Same as platypus is a mammal, just a venomous egglaying duck-billed one... The Greater Fool Bar_ is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! _
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 10871	Posted - 2015.05.02 17:38:46 - [156] - Quote Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: GenericForumAlt 1267389 wrote: ... CCP is a company and making the game more appealing or easier gets subs. ... ... and yet, the easier EVE gets the lower the average online players drops if you look at 3 months, 6 months, year and 5 years. I agree that CCP can reduce complexity but not at the expense of depth. Maybe it's the opposite correlation... EVE gets "easier" as the future prospects grow bleaker. See, I've been sporting for years that my view of the elephant is right. EVE is a game that's being paid for by people who don't like it, who play it wrong, who are not in it for the PvP. Can we count individuals? Yes we can. CCP did. It turns that 62% of all the subscribers (individuals who give money to CCP) avoid or ignore PvP. Or, in other words, PvP only interests 38% of the subscribers. So this your precious PvP game: it's being paid for by PvErs. Can we count where do characters stay? Yes we can. CCP did. It turns that 80% of all characters logged in stay in high security space. Can we count the damage (HP) inflicted by players? Yes we can. CCP did. I turns that NPCs take 150 damage for each HP of damage inflicted on player assets. See a pattern here? Pick a random EVE player, and you have 62% chances that he's not PvPing, 80% chances that he's in highsec and 150 to 1 chances that he's doing damage to NPCs rather than other players... The average EVE player is a highsec PvEr The key of EVE's success it's been to churn PvErs happily while bragging about PvP. That's not unusual; marketing and reality rarely meet each other. The only little issue is that EVE had the less-worst PvE in industry, but now faces the competence from games whose PvE may be better than EVE's. Plus, EVE has been exploiting a limited pool of PvErs who still hadn't tried EVE, and that pool may be drying up after 12 years of exploitation. Translation: If CCP would only cater to me, everything would be fine. You try to draw a distinction between pvp and pve where one doesn't exist, and you try to imagine that other people are like you (in an attempt to convince CCP to change the game, what you do is metagaming, and you do it very poorly). All this rather than simply admitting the truth: You and EVE aren't compatible.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 23043	Posted - 2015.05.02 19:08:58 - [157] - Quote Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: Solecist Project wrote: Citation needed. Carebears over and over again have shown that they make up numbers. There is absolutely no reason to believe anything you have written, at all. Not only do I not trust your ability to not be fooled by your own prejudice ... ... but I also do not trust your ability to seperate between players and characters. So ... citation. Unlike carebears, people like me actually care about numbers and don't make **** up. You ask numbers, I give you numbers. On what do subscribers pay for with their money: https://youtu.be/gJlNGtXts_E?t=21m20s "Professionals" (do everything): 30% "Entrepreneurs" (do everything but PvP): 25% "Agressors" (only do PvP and socialize): 8% "Socials" (they mostly socialize and skillqueue online): 12% "Traditionals" (They PvE and play EVE as a traditional MMO): 25% 25% +25% +12% =62% of players who barely do PvP. On where are characters logged in: https://twitter.com/CCPQuant/status/590854488405192704/photo/1 (My fault. It's ~75% characters in high security, not 80%... we could use a larger image, though) On how is inficted damage: https://youtu.be/gJlNGtXts_E?t=15m30s CONCORD to players: 3 million HP/day Players to Players: 385 million HP/day NPC to players: 4,400 million HP/day Players to structures: 4,600 million HP/day Players to NPCs: 24,000 million HP/day My fault, too. It's only 62 times more damage to NPCs than to players. So you have this game where 62% of players rarely engage in PvP, where 75% of characters stay in the parts of map with lesser chance of PvP and where players inflict 62 HP of damage to NPCs for each HP they inflict upon other players... Obviously it's a PvP game, right? Same as platypus is a mammal, just a venomous egglaying duck-billed one... Well done. :) Hey look, suicide ganking is not really an issue according to this. Thanks! ^_^ DOES YELLING ANNOY YOU ? LIKE MY IDEA BELOW AND I WILL REMOVE IT !! Corpses4Drifters CLICK THE LINK !! YOU LIKE THE IDEA !! FOR EVEN MORE PLAYER DRIVEN CONTENT !!
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 23043	Posted - 2015.05.02 19:14:41 - [158] - Quote Now if knly you stopped using PvP wrong ... PvP isn't "ship combat" ... ... but "ship combat" is PvP. Get that into your head and you elevated yourself even further. It's seriously the stupidest thing people ever say. The reason you need to do this is because ... ... 1. it's the only correct way of doing it. ... 2. Trading is PvP too, as example. What the numbers don't tell us is if lack of meaningfull wars in EVE are influencing this. Also to prevent Tippia coming up with it .... EVE is still a a PvP (I use it correctly, remember) based game without the rest simply wouldn't work. DOES YELLING ANNOY YOU ? LIKE MY IDEA BELOW AND I WILL REMOVE IT !! Corpses4Drifters CLICK THE LINK !! YOU LIKE THE IDEA !! FOR EVEN MORE PLAYER DRIVEN CONTENT !!
Paranoid Loyd 5011	Posted - 2015.05.02 19:22:24 - [159] - Quote Oxide Ammar wrote: Paranoid Loyd wrote: Iam The Flash wrote: You people are truly pathetic. You make a forum thread for like and get likes just to up your counter so it looks like people like you. You destroy null sec by infesting empire with grifer alts because you people don't want to look for fights anymore, u'd rather camp market hubs and then complain on the forums about lack of pvp in null when it's you, the so called null pvpers who are to blame. You constantly slam WoW, even tho it has over 7 million players worldwide and we don't even have 3/4 of a million because EvE is so broke it's a joke. You constantly screw up empire market prices by slamming frieghters non stop and slamming barges for lols non stop. You, the PvP population are single handedly destroying EvE and you have the audacity to come on here and COMPLAIN about ship skins and low numbers online. You use grifer alts to destroy new player corps non stop for then damn lols of it. You're pathetic. Alll the problems with EvE, you have only yourselves to blame Glorious tears. You people Also, I looked at the LAGL thread, I see you posted there a few times, hypocrite. It doesn't matter, he still right about what he said. What doesn't matter? The fact that he is crying like a child about anonymous forum posters half of which are just trolling, or the fact that he uses all encompassing terms like "you people" when none of us have the exact same opinion about anything, or is it that it doesn't matter that he is bagging on people for doing something when he did the exact same thing? "Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata Fix the Prospect!!!
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 23043	Posted - 2015.05.02 19:25:48 - [160] - Quote Yobu Khan wrote: Solecist Project wrote: 13kr1d1 wrote: You can't fly solo and achieve. Sure you can. Everyone can. Most just aren't capable of doing so. Like all the weaklings in RvB, EVEUNI l, BNI, NullSec, CODE., ... A shitton of nonachievers who are nothing without the group. Eh , i hate to break it to u , but u arent special or anything.Capable? Its a point and click game, Hello? If smebody is running around more cocky than somebody else its 98 % Cause : 1.some millions more skills 2.some billion more ISK. 3.some more buddies 4.some x years of experience that 2 % remaining is propably the "Capable". Ignorance is Strength, ey? Not a single point you listed makes anyone capable. Skills have a levelcap and only a limited subset is ever used in a ship. Money doesn't buy you a winning ticket. Friends don't make you capable, they allow you to hide your incapabilities. Experience comes from capability, even if it's just the capability to realise that trying means learning. So thanks, you show that you have no clue of the game and aren't really understanding it ... or much playing it. DOES YELLING ANNOY YOU ? LIKE MY IDEA BELOW AND I WILL REMOVE IT !! Corpses4Drifters CLICK THE LINK !! YOU LIKE THE IDEA !! FOR EVEN MORE PLAYER DRIVEN CONTENT !!

Minmatar Citizen 534612187 Citizen Corp. 20	Posted - 2015.05.02 20:10:57 - [161] - Quote First of all, why wouldn't you believe those numbers? Say there are two sections of spaceGÇöboth of which are viable to make a living out of: There's the relatively safe section and not-safe at all section. Given some group of players, most of the group will hang around the safe area. Similarly, most of the group are probably going to do safer things. Even corporations wouldn't be so sought after if they didn't provide safety (combat-wise, financially, and socially). That should be an obvious aspect of how people will generally behave. I'm not saying this is reason to cater to HighSec PvE, or try to draw in a WoW crowd. I'm saying that this is just the natural structure of things. To not believe it, I think, is just being stubborn. Furthermore, imagine EvE without PvP, but with everything else (P.I., corporations, market, mining, hauling, manufacturing, taxes, some-way-of-claiming-territory, shares, exploration, wormholes, incursions, etc.). Yeah, PvP plays a huge roleGÇöbut how can you seriously claim that EvE without PvP wouldn't be an awesome game? (I don't think it would be as awesome as it is now, but I'd still play the **** out of it.) Yes, I understand that a lot of demand is created by PvP, but can you seriously not imagine a game without it? You could replace PvP with spaceship-Tetris-puzzles and still have a high demand; that isn't exclusive to PvP. I don't see why anyone would claim it is. That being said, I think the PvP is awesome. I like that a huge number of players seek their safety in HighSec or something. EvE is a niche game, and shouldn't cater to the "WoW crowd" (WoW sucks). Also, I almost exclusively play solo, and spend 90% of my time in wormholes and LowSec. I don't PvP (I will, eventually), and do a pretty good job avoiding it. What the hell are you guys even talking about?
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai 3493	Posted - 2015.05.02 20:24:59 - [162] - Quote Solecist Project wrote: Now if knly you stopped using PvP wrong ... PvP isn't "ship combat" ... ... but "ship combat" is PvP. (...) LOL, you're preaching to the choir. Another of my old claims is that PvP should be more than shooting somebody's face. Trade, mining, et cetera, that's competition. Of course, you're competing against other players, so it's PvP too. But you're not destroying their assets, nor preventing the destruction of yours, unless you stop playing your way and play the agressor's way. I've always wondered why that's OK and nobody else challenges that assumption. Thus, when it comes to destroying player assets, certain playstyles (favored by 62% of players) are very limited and there's some loopholes that allow some other players to destroy player assets without risk. Risk in EVE is: what causes you to stop doing something. You know that some players never face that. Others face it every time they undock. What is more dangerous? Mine in a Hulk in highsec, or gank a Hulk in highsec? The only guy facing "unconsensual" risk it's the guy in the Hulk. If he wants to avoid it, no amount of playing his way will help him. He must play the ganker's way or stop flying the Hulk. If that's a Sandbox, my aunt has wheels and is a bike. EVE would be a better game for everyone (but specially for the 62%) if ship combat was more than A's guns vs B's tank. Think of chess. Why is the knight such a powerful piece? Because it can kill (potentially) in as much as 8 checkers, without being blocked. EVE certainly could use some of that sophistication. The Greater Fool Bar_ is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! _
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 23048	Posted - 2015.05.02 20:39:33 - [163] - Quote I can only apologise for all the gankers who play easy mode. Time and time again I complained about people ruining the profession by using scouting alts and hiding in station all the time. And then the bullshit about the faction police. The issue isn't that the risk isn't there for -10. It's there and it's fun flying around as -10 all day. You can ask Hengle to verify it. I taught him. Most people refuse my playstyle as -10 because it's too demanding. Good times. Oh btw I can prove my words. I actually want to repeat my run from 2012 ... ... when people loved me for not being like all the others ... ... to raise some money for PLEX4GOOD. IF ONLY I GOT TO PLAY! Anyhow... it's still a sandbox. What's missing is a player police. That's not thw fault of the game, but of the bigmouthing idiots who claim achievements for whoring on lossmails and doing nothing else. And of the typical highseccer who can only complain but not raise his ass to do something himself. Besides the few who actually prevent death of ships ... ... but they are too limited in their spectrum and reach. Anyhow ... your hate is showing a bit. Not much. Just a bit. In any way show your numbers that suicide ganking is absolutely literally a non-issue. ^_^ DOES YELLING ANNOY YOU ? LIKE MY IDEA BELOW AND I WILL REMOVE IT !! Corpses4Drifters CLICK THE LINK !! YOU LIKE THE IDEA !! FOR EVEN MORE PLAYER DRIVEN CONTENT !!
Gerhard Stringfellow Fisherbody Trading Company 19	Posted - 2015.05.02 21:53:45 - [164] - Quote Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: Solecist Project wrote: Now if knly you stopped using PvP wrong ... PvP isn't "ship combat" ... ... but "ship combat" is PvP. (...) LOL, you're preaching to the choir. Another of my old claims is that PvP should be more than shooting somebody's face. Trade, mining, et cetera, that's competition. Of course, you're competing against other players, so it's PvP too. But you're not destroying their assets, nor preventing the destruction of yours, unless you stop playing your way and play the agressor's way. I've always wondered why that's OK and nobody else challenges that assumption. Thus, when it comes to destroying player assets, certain playstyles (favored by 62% of players) are very limited and there's some loopholes that allow some other players to destroy player assets without risk. Risk in EVE is: what causes you to stop doing something. You know that some players never face that. Others face it every time they undock. What is more dangerous? Mine in a Hulk in highsec, or gank a Hulk in highsec? The only guy facing "unconsensual" risk it's the guy in the Hulk. If he wants to avoid it, no amount of playing his way will help him. He must play the ganker's way or stop flying the Hulk. If that's a Sandbox, my aunt has wheels and is a bike. EVE would be a better game for everyone (but specially for the 62%) if ship combat was more than A's guns vs B's tank. Think of chess. Why is the knight such a powerful piece? Because it can kill (potentially) in as much as 8 checkers, without being blocked. EVE certainly could use some of that sophistication. Do these threads always turn into carebears complaining that they aren't safe? Start a ganking alt and start trying to solo gank in hi-sec, you aren't exactly death in a spaceship; if anything you'd find that it's actually stacked against you as the ganker. And it's supposed to be "Unconsensual"; and you're right, he either learns a way to fly his ship that doesn't get him space exploded, or he keeps getting blown up. It blows my mind that you'd want him to be able to determine how things work in a PVP based game to better cater to a playstyle that is at best a (very boring) sideshow to the things that draw people to EvE in the first place. If I could give you a homework assignment, it would be gank a retriever in hi-sec, gank a hulk, and then gank an orca and a freighter. It isn't quite just showing up in your catalyst and pressing f1, despite what you herbivores might think. Just admit that what you're really after is doing whatever you want, no matter how stupid or inefficient it is, and you want CCP to protect you doing it. Another pubbie elite PvE pay to win mining carebear
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 23079	Posted - 2015.05.02 21:59:02 - [165] - Quote Sorry but the way people do it ... ... ganking is easymode gameplay. And I was a bigtime, famous (quote Psychotic Monk et al) suicide ganker. I refused to play that way and still do, because it is literally easymode with ... ... scouting alts ... ... hiding the gankchar in station until a target is found ... ... and only undocking for the 30sec until the gank is done. And no, the faction police is no issue at all besides ECM. Now... I'm notnsaying carebears have a point. They should at least first get experience in it before they whine about it ... ... but anyone who says ganking is high risk etc ... ... and at the same time plays easymode ... ... has no ground to speak whatsoever. DOES YELLING ANNOY YOU ? LIKE MY IDEA BELOW AND I WILL REMOVE IT !! Corpses4Drifters CLICK THE LINK !! YOU LIKE THE IDEA !! FOR EVEN MORE PLAYER DRIVEN CONTENT !!
Gerhard Stringfellow Fisherbody Trading Company 19	Posted - 2015.05.03 00:58:10 - [166] - Quote Solecist Project wrote: Sorry but the way people do it ... ... ganking is easymode gameplay. And I was a bigtime, famous (quote Psychotic Monk et al) suicide ganker. Now... I'm notnsaying carebears have a point. They should at least first get experience in it before they whine about it ... ... but anyone who says ganking is high risk etc ... ... and at the same time plays easymode ... ... has no ground to speak whatsoever. And who are you, bigshot super famous suicide ganker, to deny new pilots what you readily admit is an easy and accessible way to interact with others in the New Eden universe? Given that you've criticized the null empires for blobbing, what exactly do you leave new pilots in EvE in terms of activities? Mining? PvE solo missions? This all, of course, supported by your earlier statements that null sec empires, ganking, blobbing, and apparently PvP as a general practice are all "easymode". Really, what other than clicking on an asteroid and pressing f1 or autopiloting a freighter would you have new players do, considering you've stated the activities that for better or worse make up what EvE is aren't worthwhile? I'm just going to recap again, in case you somehow missed it, everything that you've dismissed. FCing-Easymode Being in a fleet as anything than FC-Easymode Big team fights-Easymode Little team fights-Easymode Ganking-Easymode Solo Ganking-Easymode I'm really beginning to wonder what it is that you do in EvE. Another pubbie elite PvE pay to win mining carebear
ValVenis Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2015.05.03 07:24:55 - [167] - Quote I've come from Wow. been playing 2 weeks They ruined my class.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai 3493	Posted - 2015.05.03 07:34:33 - [168] - Quote Gerhard Stringfellow wrote: P'LAY MY WAY OR GO AWAY!!! Interesting argument, never heard it before. The Greater Fool Bar_ is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! _
Avaelica Kuershin 51	Posted - 2015.05.03 07:48:07 - [169] - Quote ValVenis wrote: I've come from Wow. been playing 2 weeks If you came from a PvP server, then you might have a good idea what it's like here.... only it's everyone you'll have to watch out for.
Gerhard Stringfellow Fisherbody Trading Company 19	Posted - 2015.05.03 08:09:05 - [170] - Quote Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: Gerhard Stringfellow wrote: P'LAY MY WAY OR GO AWAY!!! Interesting argument, never heard it before. Unless I'm mistaken, my post was detailing someone who said exactly that. Unfortunately, you've got the the wrong man. I'd ask you to take another look my posts and the posts I quoted to see who was criticizing playstyles. I merely was defending several ways to EvE against a person who claims most playstyles aren't worthwhile without having the decency to even say how they play. I hope that helped. Another pubbie elite PvE pay to win mining carebear

13kr1d1 Hedion University Amarr Empire 113	Posted - 2015.05.03 08:45:43 - [171] - Quote https://www.themittani.com/news/eve-mosaic-patch-notes Wow. They completely ruined warp speed rigs. They ruined ore. They ruined so much and gave us pay real money/aurum for fancy ship colors? This is terrible. At 5 drones of T2, the Tristan is nearly as powerful as the Algos, with a cheaper price tag, better maneuverability and speed, and smaller sig radius to avoid the lazy carebearish T3 station blapping -10s who have no life. Pick tristan for FW.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai 3493	Posted - 2015.05.03 08:48:10 - [172] - Quote Gerhard Stringfellow wrote: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: Gerhard Stringfellow wrote: P'LAY MY WAY OR GO AWAY!!! Interesting argument, never heard it before. Unless I'm mistaken, my post was detailing someone who said exactly that. Unfortunately, you've got the the wrong man. I'd ask you to take another look my posts and the posts I quoted to see who was criticizing playstyles. I merely was defending several ways to EvE against a person who claims most playstyles aren't worthwhile without having the decency to even say how they play. I hope that helped. Gerhard Stringfellow wrote: If I could give you a homework assignment, it would be gank a retriever in hi-sec, gank a hulk, and then gank an orca and a freighter. It isn't quite just showing up in your catalyst and pressing f1, despite what you herbivores might think. Just admit that what you're really after is doing whatever you want, no matter how stupid or inefficient it is you're doing it, and you want CCP to protect you from other players who might capitalize on that stupidity. You quoted me and asked me to do what you want, then called me stupid for doing what I do. And yet you totally missed my point (which is also incredibly original and never happened to me before) Gankers play their way and that causes a miner reaction. Miners don't have any way to cause a ganker reaction by playing their way. I despise the assumption that this is OK and shouldn't be different. The Greater Fool Bar_ is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! _
Avaelica Kuershin 51	Posted - 2015.05.03 08:51:57 - [173] - Quote 13kr1d1 wrote: Wow. They completely ruined warp speed rigs. They ruined ore. Not the WoW that was part of the thread. The change to the rigs requires a bit of rejigging fittings, but ore ruined? Only for the 'farmers'.
Jenshae Chiroptera 1459	Posted - 2015.05.03 09:03:19 - [174] - Quote ValVenis wrote: I've come from Wow. been playing 2 weeks They ruined my class. EVE will ruin your dreams. Prepare to enjoy nightmares. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids . High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow Fozzie is treating a symptom.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 16283	Posted - 2015.05.03 09:06:04 - [175] - Quote Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: Solecist Project wrote: Now if knly you stopped using PvP wrong ... PvP isn't "ship combat" ... ... but "ship combat" is PvP. (...) LOL, you're preaching to the choir. Another of my old claims is that PvP should be more than shooting somebody's face. Trade, mining, et cetera, that's competition. Of course, you're competing against other players, so it's PvP too. But you're not destroying their assets, nor preventing the destruction of yours, unless you stop playing your way and play the agressor's way. I've always wondered why that's OK and nobody else challenges that assumption. Thus, when it comes to destroying player assets, certain playstyles (favored by 62% of players) are very limited and there's some loopholes that allow some other players to destroy player assets without risk. Risk in EVE is: what causes you to stop doing something. You know that some players never face that. Others face it every time they undock. What is more dangerous? Mine in a Hulk in highsec, or gank a Hulk in highsec? The only guy facing "unconsensual" risk it's the guy in the Hulk. If he wants to avoid it, no amount of playing his way will help him. He must play the ganker's way or stop flying the Hulk. If that's a Sandbox, my aunt has wheels and is a bike. EVE would be a better game for everyone (but specially for the 62%) if ship combat was more than A's guns vs B's tank. Think of chess. Why is the knight such a powerful piece? Because it can kill (potentially) in as much as 8 checkers, without being blocked. EVE certainly could use some of that sophistication. Your analysis is only true if the guy in the Hulk refuses to take the most basic of options open to everyone in an MMO and work with other people. You are effectively complaining that the rules of boxing are biased against you because you only want to fight with one hand tied behind your back and both eyes shut. "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 23196	Posted - 2015.05.03 09:08:07 - [176] - Quote Gerhard Stringfellow wrote: FCing-Easymode Being in a fleet as anything than FC-Easymode Big team fights-Easymode Little team fights-Easymode Ganking-Easymode Solo Ganking-Easymode I'm really beginning to wonder what it is that you do in EvE. lol so butthurt. FCing isn't easymode, being a fleetbear is. Hiding behind scouting alts is. Being you probably is too, considering your reaction. You need to learn to read, or stop being a hypocrite, because taking my words and turning them into something else ... ... won't get you anywhere. Good luck with that. ^_^ DOES YELLING ANNOY YOU ? LIKE MY IDEA BELOW AND I WILL REMOVE IT !! Corpses4Drifters CLICK THE LINK !! YOU LIKE THE IDEA !! FOR EVEN MORE PLAYER DRIVEN CONTENT !!
13kr1d1 Hedion University Amarr Empire 113	Posted - 2015.05.03 09:14:35 - [177] - Quote Minmatar Citizen 534612187 wrote: First of all, why wouldn't you believe those numbers? Say there are two sections of spaceGÇöboth of which are viable to make a living out of: There's the relatively safe section and not-safe at all section. Given some group of players, most of the group will hang around the safe area. Similarly, most of the group are probably going to do safer things. Even corporations wouldn't be so sought after if they didn't provide safety (combat-wise, financially, and socially). That should be an obvious aspect of how people will generally behave. I'm not saying this is reason to cater to HighSec PvE, or try to draw in a WoW crowd. I'm saying that this is just the natural structure of things. To not believe it, I think, is just being stubborn. Furthermore, imagine EvE without PvP, but with everything else (P.I., corporations, market, mining, hauling, manufacturing, taxes, some-way-of-claiming-territory, shares, exploration, wormholes, incursions, etc.). Yeah, PvP plays a huge roleGÇöbut how can you seriously claim that EvE without PvP wouldn't be an awesome game? (I don't think it would be as awesome as it is now, but I'd still play the **** out of it.) Yes, I understand that a lot of demand is created by PvP, but can you seriously not imagine a game without it? You could replace PvP with spaceship-Tetris-puzzles and still have a high demand; that isn't exclusive to PvP. I don't see why anyone would claim it is. That being said, I think the PvP is awesome. I like that a huge number of players seek their safety in HighSec or something. EvE is a niche game, and shouldn't cater to the "WoW crowd" (WoW sucks). Also, I almost exclusively play solo, and spend 90% of my time in wormholes and LowSec. I don't PvP (I will, eventually), and do a pretty good job avoiding it. What the hell are you guys even talking about? If no place in space was safe because concord didnt insta-blap you, and it wasn't a bannable offence to beat concord, then players would be forced into interacting with the game world and the rest of the players to improve their safety, and they'd STILL have hi-sec safety after all is said and done, because the'yd develop systems of gank protection on their own ships as well as overall system protection through other players patrolling **** and shooting down wanna-be baddies. Your theory is entirely correct, and hi-sec play simply makes it effortlessly easy. Without it, players would still want this system, because you can't beat human nature. They prefer that system in real life, they'd prefer it in game, and it would be significantly more kick ass for the game to be fully player moderated to provide that kind of environment, rather than the whole concord-splat thing. At 5 drones of T2, the Tristan is nearly as powerful as the Algos, with a cheaper price tag, better maneuverability and speed, and smaller sig radius to avoid the lazy carebearish T3 station blapping -10s who have no life. Pick tristan for FW.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 23197	Posted - 2015.05.03 09:27:36 - [178] - Quote 13kr1d1 wrote: Minmatar Citizen 534612187 wrote: First of all, why wouldn't you believe those numbers? Say there are two sections of spaceGÇöboth of which are viable to make a living out of: There's the relatively safe section and not-safe at all section. Given some group of players, most of the group will hang around the safe area. Similarly, most of the group are probably going to do safer things. Even corporations wouldn't be so sought after if they didn't provide safety (combat-wise, financially, and socially). That should be an obvious aspect of how people will generally behave. I'm not saying this is reason to cater to HighSec PvE, or try to draw in a WoW crowd. I'm saying that this is just the natural structure of things. To not believe it, I think, is just being stubborn. Furthermore, imagine EvE without PvP, but with everything else (P.I., corporations, market, mining, hauling, manufacturing, taxes, some-way-of-claiming-territory, shares, exploration, wormholes, incursions, etc.). Yeah, PvP plays a huge roleGÇöbut how can you seriously claim that EvE without PvP wouldn't be an awesome game? (I don't think it would be as awesome as it is now, but I'd still play the **** out of it.) Yes, I understand that a lot of demand is created by PvP, but can you seriously not imagine a game without it? You could replace PvP with spaceship-Tetris-puzzles and still have a high demand; that isn't exclusive to PvP. I don't see why anyone would claim it is. That being said, I think the PvP is awesome. I like that a huge number of players seek their safety in HighSec or something. EvE is a niche game, and shouldn't cater to the "WoW crowd" (WoW sucks). Also, I almost exclusively play solo, and spend 90% of my time in wormholes and LowSec. I don't PvP (I will, eventually), and do a pretty good job avoiding it. What the hell are you guys even talking about? If no place in space was safe because concord didnt insta-blap you, and it wasn't a bannable offence to beat concord, then players would be forced into interacting with the game world and the rest of the players to improve their safety, and they'd STILL have hi-sec safety after all is said and done, because the'yd develop systems of gank protection on their own ships as well as overall system protection through other players patrolling **** and shooting down wanna-be baddies. Your theory is entirely correct, and hi-sec play simply makes it effortlessly easy. Without it, players would still want this system, because you can't beat human nature. They prefer that system in real life, they'd prefer it in game, and it would be significantly more kick ass for the game to be fully player moderated to provide that kind of environment, rather than the whole concord-splat thing. Children who are overly protected and safe on a playground ... ... are at much higher risk of hurting themselves ... ... because they never needed to learn how to watch out for themselves. Common sense. People don't have it. DOES YELLING ANNOY YOU ? LIKE MY IDEA BELOW AND I WILL REMOVE IT !! Corpses4Drifters CLICK THE LINK !! YOU LIKE THE IDEA !! FOR EVEN MORE PLAYER DRIVEN CONTENT !!
Roberta Gastoni Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 6	Posted - 2015.05.03 09:57:27 - [179] - Quote Solecist Project wrote: Sorry but the way people do it ... ... ganking is easymode gameplay. And I was a bigtime, famous (quote Psychotic Monk et al) suicide ganker. I refused to play that way and still do, because it is literally easymode with ... ... scouting alts ... ... hiding the gankchar in station until a target is found ... ... and only undocking for the 30sec until the gank is done. And no, the faction police is no issue at all besides ECM. Now... I'm notnsaying carebears have a point. They should at least first get experience in it before they whine about it ... ... but anyone who says ganking is high risk etc ... ... and at the same time plays easymode ... ... has no ground to speak whatsoever. I somewhat agree with you, and i'm one of those dreaded "high sec-er". However, I come to the conclusion that it should be in this way until high sec has a real natural enemy. Every "space" has its natural enemy, in nullsec the other alliance is your natural enemy, in low sec the roamers and various pvp-ers are you natural enemy, but high sec without gankers would be a place with no real enemies. And probably people reading my comment will say "it's easy to speak from a npc corp", but trust me, I thought a lot about joining a corp or simply make a one man corp to avoid taxes, and I came to the conclusion it's not worth the hassle. Anyone can drop corp when war decced, but no one can escape a gank. And if you are targeted by a gank it's partially your fault. Like posting on the forums about ganks, but anyway I'm mainly a station trader, so no real threat here. And as station trader I say ganking is easy mode, but thanks god there is the ganking to move markets otherwise stagnants, like those of the mining barges, missioning ship and transport ships, with relative fittings. Not to mentions, it's a gameplay, without the "bear" there would be no ganking, no LP store faction stuffs, no "cheap" implants, but without the pvpers, the industrialist would have no one to sell his/her items, because the market would saturate, if the market saturate the station trader would bankrupt, and so on... TL;DR version, people should accept any kind of gameplay, because in a sandbox everybody does his/her part
Gerhard Stringfellow Fisherbody Trading Company 20	Posted - 2015.05.03 09:58:36 - [180] - Quote Solecist Project wrote: Gerhard Stringfellow wrote: FCing-Easymode Being in a fleet as anything than FC-Easymode Big team fights-Easymode Little team fights-Easymode Ganking-Easymode Solo Ganking-Easymode I'm really beginning to wonder what it is that you do in EvE. lol so butthurt. FCing isn't easymode, being a fleetbear is. Hiding behind scouting alts is. Being you probably is too, considering your reaction. You need to learn to read, or stop being a hypocrite, because taking my words and turning them into something else ... ... won't get you anywhere. Good luck with that. ^_^ I didn't really anything like that exposing just how unthought out and contradictory your statements in this thread have been, and honestly, as long as we're going to devolve into personal attacks, whoever taught you how to use a period in a sentence should lose their teaching license. It's painful to read and I'm not the only person who's admitted to finding your writing a scathing indictment against whatever school system you had the misfortune of attending. BTW everything else was completely false, of course, but I'd never expect you to own up to anything. And I haven't seen emoji used that often since middle school. Another pubbie elite PvE pay to win mining carebear

Gerhard Stringfellow Fisherbody Trading Company 20	Posted - 2015.05.03 10:10:01 - [181] - Quote *"TL;DR version, people should accept any kind of gameplay, because in a sandbox everybody does his/her part"* I agree that all gameplay should be accepted, and that includes the gameplay styles that are predatory to your livelihood in New Eden. Another pubbie elite PvE pay to win mining carebear
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai 3498	Posted - 2015.05.03 10:14:25 - [182] - Quote Malcanis wrote: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: Solecist Project wrote: Now if knly you stopped using PvP wrong ... PvP isn't "ship combat" ... ... but "ship combat" is PvP. (...) LOL, you're preaching to the choir. Another of my old claims is that PvP should be more than shooting somebody's face. Trade, mining, et cetera, that's competition. Of course, you're competing against other players, so it's PvP too. But you're not destroying their assets, nor preventing the destruction of yours, unless you stop playing your way and play the agressor's way. I've always wondered why that's OK and nobody else challenges that assumption. Thus, when it comes to destroying player assets, certain playstyles (favored by 62% of players) are very limited and there's some loopholes that allow some other players to destroy player assets without risk. Risk in EVE is: what causes you to stop doing something. You know that some players never face that. Others face it every time they undock. What is more dangerous? Mine in a Hulk in highsec, or gank a Hulk in highsec? The only guy facing "unconsensual" risk it's the guy in the Hulk. If he wants to avoid it, no amount of playing his way will help him. He must play the ganker's way or stop flying the Hulk. If that's a Sandbox, my aunt has wheels and is a bike. EVE would be a better game for everyone (but specially for the 62%) if ship combat was more than A's guns vs B's tank. Think of chess. Why is the knight such a powerful piece? Because it can kill (potentially) in as much as 8 checkers, without being blocked. EVE certainly could use some of that sophistication. Your analysis is only true if the guy in the Hulk refuses to take the most basic of options open to everyone in an MMO and work with other people. You are effectively complaining that the rules of boxing are biased against you because you only want to fight with one hand tied behind your back and both eyes shut. Last time I checked it, boxing was a solo sport, not a team sport. But I get your analogy. Just it's wrong. It's CCP who says that if you intend to chessbox, your arm will be tied to your back because there are no chess sets in EVE. A fleeted tanked Skiff tuned to a intel channel can always be destroyed. A ganker willing to lose his ship and pod is unstoppable. I despise the assumption that this is OK. CCP tells us to choose between being cool predators or hapless prey. I'd rather suggest a middle ground of becoming dangerous prey. The Greater Fool Bar_ is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! _
Gerhard Stringfellow Fisherbody Trading Company 20	Posted - 2015.05.03 10:14:47 - [183] - Quote [/quote] If no place in space was safe because concord didnt insta-blap you, and it wasn't a bannable offence to beat concord, then players would be forced into interacting with the game world and the rest of the players to improve their safety, and they'd STILL have hi-sec safety after all is said and done, because the'yd develop systems of gank protection on their own ships as well as overall system protection through other players patrolling **** and shooting down wanna-be baddies. Your theory is entirely correct, and hi-sec play simply makes it effortlessly easy. Without it, players would still want this system, because you can't beat human nature. They prefer that system in real life, they'd prefer it in game, and it would be significantly more kick ass for the game to be fully player moderated to provide that kind of environment, rather than the whole concord-splat thing. [/quote] I agree with this completely. Another pubbie elite PvE pay to win mining carebear
Roberta Gastoni Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 6	Posted - 2015.05.03 10:19:09 - [184] - Quote Gerhard Stringfellow wrote: *"TL;DR version, people should accept any kind of gameplay, because in a sandbox everybody does his/her part"* I agree that all gameplay should be accepted, and that includes the gameplay styles that are predatory to your livelihood in New Eden. You shouldn't quote me and rectify what I said like I said the opposite ;)
Jasmine Deer School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 12	Posted - 2015.05.03 10:39:44 - [185] - Quote Yobu Khan wrote: New players like me with similar concerns , from tutorials to economy to skills or pvp , and same old veterans telling people "this game is not for you, *** off, go back to wow ". Surely those veterans also offered you some helpful advice - like HTFU as Eve is a DARK and HARSH Universe (tm). Always so helpful those veterans.
Jenshae Chiroptera 1460	Posted - 2015.05.03 11:09:28 - [186] - Quote Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: .... A ganker willing to lose his ship and pod is unstoppable. .... Wrong. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids . High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow Fozzie is treating a symptom.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 16285	Posted - 2015.05.03 11:18:59 - [187] - Quote Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: A fleeted tanked Skiff tuned to a intel channel can always be destroyed. A ganker willing to lose his ship and pod is unstoppable. I'm sorry but this is absolute rubbish. Both of those statements are simply incorrect. "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
Gerhard Stringfellow Fisherbody Trading Company 20	Posted - 2015.05.03 11:35:00 - [188] - Quote Roberta Gastoni wrote: Gerhard Stringfellow wrote: *"TL;DR version, people should accept any kind of gameplay, because in a sandbox everybody does his/her part"* I agree that all gameplay should be accepted, and that includes the gameplay styles that are predatory to your livelihood in New Eden. You shouldn't quote me and rectify what I said like I said the opposite ;) That was wrong of me. I apologize. Another pubbie elite PvE pay to win mining carebear
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12873	Posted - 2015.05.03 11:39:10 - [189] - Quote Malcanis wrote: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: A fleeted tanked Skiff tuned to a intel channel can always be destroyed. A ganker willing to lose his ship and pod is unstoppable. I'm sorry but this is absolute rubbish. Both of those statements are simply incorrect. Look who it's coming from. Are you surprised? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Gerhard Stringfellow Fisherbody Trading Company 20	Posted - 2015.05.03 11:40:24 - [190] - Quote Malcanis wrote: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: A fleeted tanked Skiff tuned to a intel channel can always be destroyed. A ganker willing to lose his ship and pod is unstoppable. I'm sorry but this is absolute rubbish. Both of those statements are simply incorrect. I second that this is rubbish. Another pubbie elite PvE pay to win mining carebear

Gerhard Stringfellow Fisherbody Trading Company 20	Posted - 2015.05.03 11:42:39 - [191] - Quote Jasmine Deer wrote: Yobu Khan wrote: New players like me with similar concerns , from tutorials to economy to skills or pvp , and same old veterans telling people "this game is not for you, *** off, go back to wow ". Surely those veterans also offered you some helpful advice - like HTFU as Eve is a DARK and HARSH Universe (tm). Always so helpful those veterans. And it was the best advice I ever received. Another pubbie elite PvE pay to win mining carebear
Omar Alharazaad Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 1553	Posted - 2015.05.03 12:01:49 - [192] - Quote Skiffs aren't dangerous prey? I tried my hand at baiting miners a few weeks back in an enyo. Wiggled my lance to see what happened and all that.... Got two bites at the same time, was so excited. That is, until I realized that two full flights of bonused light drones from these monsters was more than enough to turn my assault frig into a ball of fire very quickly. I pondered this as I flew my fireball of 10% hull left back to the station. There are numerous examples out there of prey turning out to have claws and fangs as well, you only have to look a little. There's a huge difference between "I cannot defend myself" and "I cannot be bothered to expend the effort needed to defend myself". I keep a thoughtgun next to the bed, fully loaded with nerdshot. Just in case.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai 3499	Posted - 2015.05.03 12:04:52 - [193] - Quote Malcanis wrote: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: A fleeted tanked Skiff tuned to a intel channel can always be destroyed. A ganker willing to lose his ship and pod is unstoppable. I'm sorry but this is absolute rubbish. Both of those statements are simply incorrect. Incorrect? A full tanked Skiff haves about 64k EHP. Ships with higher EHP are ganked regularly in high security space. Thus, a Skiff can do everything allowed by CCP to avoid death, and still be ganked. So claim 1: "A fleeted tanked Skiff tuned to a intel channel can always be destroyed" is correct. As for gankers, if they're willing to lose their ship and pod, they can destroy any player ship anywhere. It may take more than one ganker, but it's a matter of (combined DPS) x (CONCORD response in seconds) > Tank. Nothing a player does can avoid that as DPS escalates faster and better than tank. So claim 2: "A ganker willing to lose his ship and pod is unstoppable" also is correct. I don't get why you oppose it when it's quite obvious. The Greater Fool Bar_ is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! _
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 16286	Posted - 2015.05.03 12:08:24 - [194] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Malcanis wrote: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: A fleeted tanked Skiff tuned to a intel channel can always be destroyed. A ganker willing to lose his ship and pod is unstoppable. I'm sorry but this is absolute rubbish. Both of those statements are simply incorrect. Look who it's coming from. Are you surprised? Half a dozen skiffs with a couple of scythes should be well able to defend themselves from a 3 or 4 man gang in "real" PvP ships, let alone any plausible group of suicide Catalysts. Ah, but then of course I'm forgetting the magic power that "gankers" have that they can always just conjure up an arbitrary number of extra all-V pilots from nowhere to defeat any possible defence. "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
Gerhard Stringfellow Fisherbody Trading Company 20	Posted - 2015.05.03 12:11:47 - [195] - Quote Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: Malcanis wrote: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: A fleeted tanked Skiff tuned to a intel channel can always be destroyed. A ganker willing to lose his ship and pod is unstoppable. I'm sorry but this is absolute rubbish. Both of those statements are simply incorrect. Incorrect? A full tanked Skiff haves about 64k EHP. Ships with higher EHP are ganked regularly in high security space. Thus, a Skiff can do everything allowed by CCP to avoid death, and still be ganked. So claim 1: "A fleeted tanked Skiff tuned to a intel channel can always be destroyed" is correct. As for gankers, if they're willing to lose their ship and pod, they can destroy any player ship anywhere. It may take more than one ganker, but it's a matter of (combined DPS) x (CONCORD response in seconds) > Tank. Nothing a player does can avoid that as DPS escalates faster and better than tank. So claim 2: "A ganker willing to lose his ship and pod is unstoppable" also is correct. I don't get why you oppose it when it's quite obvious. Yes, stacking enough ships with enough firepower does mean anything can be ganked. As it should be. Just because it can be killed doesn't mean it will and doesn't mean that pilots will always bring what's necessary to do it. Appealing targets are weaker; you'd be hard pressed to find a trillion catalyst pilots willing to throw it away for one skiff. There is the return of it all to consider after all, unless it's just for fun. "A ganker willing to lose his ship and pod is unstoppable" also is correct. That would be better phrased as "gankers willing to lose THEIR ships and pods are unstoppable" with the caveat that you specify lots of gankers. A fully tanked skiff isn't worth going after, and doesn't have much to worry about. I'd also add that what I believe these people are saying is that, a fully tanked ship is very very likely to survive. If you want 100% certainty on anything, you're in the wrong game. Another pubbie elite PvE pay to win mining carebear
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 23710	Posted - 2015.05.03 12:23:11 - [196] - Quote Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: CCP tells us to choose between being cool predators or hapless prey. I'd rather suggest a middle ground of becoming dangerous prey. If you want to become dangerous prey, start acting like it. Keeping with the animal analogy, an untanked afk Retriever in the belt is the sheep, the tanked up Procurer next to it with the player at the controls is the bad tempered Alpaca that makes predators thing twice. Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 16287	Posted - 2015.05.03 12:25:04 - [197] - Quote Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: Malcanis wrote: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: A fleeted tanked Skiff tuned to a intel channel can always be destroyed. A ganker willing to lose his ship and pod is unstoppable. I'm sorry but this is absolute rubbish. Both of those statements are simply incorrect. Incorrect? A full tanked Skiff haves about 64k EHP. Ships with higher EHP are ganked regularly in high security space. Thus, a Skiff can do everything allowed by CCP to avoid death, and still be ganked. So claim 1: "A fleeted tanked Skiff tuned to a intel channel can always be destroyed" is correct. As for gankers, if they're willing to lose their ship and pod, they can destroy any player ship anywhere. It may take more than one ganker, but it's a matter of (combined DPS) x (CONCORD response in seconds) > Tank. Nothing a player does can avoid that as DPS escalates faster and better than tank. So claim 2: "A ganker willing to lose his ship and pod is unstoppable" also is correct. I don't get why you oppose it when it's quite obvious. A careless AFK skiff pilot with a bad fit can always be destroyed. A skiff pilot who groups up with 5 friends and they all have good 100k EHP/200 DPS fits that take into account that they are risking attack (and why are you flying a skiff if you're not worried about being attacked?) and are actually prepared to shoot back (1 slot free for point or web or TP or TD or other EW) has little to fear from anything except a meticulously pre-planned and highly motivated attack. A dozen Garde IIs backed up by web, point and a couple of Target Painters will reliably blap a suicide-fitted Catalyst each cycle. You can even have 5/6 guys AFK as long as they assign their drones to the 6th guy keeping a watch. Even if you don't want to shoot back, that half-dozen strong skiff group can apply 25 light shield drones to whoever gets shot at, and the target has the option of overheating his shield hardeners, giving him 120k EHP and a 500 DPS tank. But as I said, this relies stepping into the ring without the mindset that you're entitled to an equal outcome even though you have both eyes shut and you have deliberately tied your own hands behind your back. "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12873	Posted - 2015.05.03 12:28:41 - [198] - Quote Malcanis wrote: But as I said, this relies stepping into the ring without the mindset that you're entitled to an equal outcome even though you have both eyes shut and you have deliberately tied your own hands behind your back. Of course, that's what carebears want, after all. They feel entitled to deliberately play the game wrong and never have to lose. What they want is a Facebook game with EVE's graphics. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 16288	Posted - 2015.05.03 12:32:40 - [199] - Quote Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: CCP tells us to choose between being cool predators or hapless prey. I'd rather suggest a middle ground of becoming dangerous prey. Agreed, but there's nothing "dangerous" about whining on forums about how "gankers" will always win. If you genuinely want to be "dangerous prey", act like it. [Skiff, New Setup 1] Damage Control II Drone Damage Amplifier II Mining Laser Upgrade II Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Tracking Speed Script Adaptive Invulnerability Field II EM Ward Field II Thermic Dissipation Field II Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I Medium Core Defense Field Extender II Medium Core Defense Field Extender II Garde II x2 Light Shield Maintenance Bot I x5 Warrior II x5 ~100k EHP. 200 DPS with garde IIs. Frigate-class lockspeed. Targetting range is a bit low but if you're worried about people flying gank destroyers, that's not much of a problem. Fly in a group, like the gankers do. Plan for contingencies like the gankers do. Have your fleet organised with an FC like the gankers do. Make sure you have enough tackle like the gankers do (Skiffs have surprisngly good lockspeed; at least one of your skiffs should have a long point, another a web, and so on). Actually put some effort in game into being dangerous instead of just endangering the game by making foolish demands on the forum. "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
Dyner Midgard Protectorate 129	Posted - 2015.05.03 16:52:04 - [200] - Quote And here I thought people would just play games they enjoyed.

Otso Bakarti Aliastra Gallente Federation 152	Posted - 2015.05.03 17:26:27 - [201] - Quote Dyner wrote: And here I thought people would just play games they enjoyed. That's the problem with the WoW refugee. Look at it like this. Millions of these people grew up playing this one game. To them, it was the only game. All the press says so. So do all their friends. So, they acquire a mentality that they are the only true gamers, and all games must be some sort of WoW or they suck. Blizzard starts making some mistakes, alterations, accomodations, and basically hits a wall of economic reality against an unsatiable hunger from their playerbase that they themselves created. They stumble. They "became boring." (Note: The Panda). WoW players quit by the millions, and go wandering about looking for another game. Nature of Google and the Universe, they find us, and several other notable games. They arrive as God's gift to gaming and proceed to "suggest" how to make this game (all games) perfect, which amounts to some version or another of WoW. ("Ganking" is a term invented in WoW. It literally means "Jump on and one-shot a noob." You see how they've tried to massage the meaning here, and how CCP has attempted to define "ganking" in EVE.) WoW refugees and the future of EVE? Hey, it's a digital historic phenomena. It is being overcome by events. Because they're here EVE has no future. No, "EVE" isn't "dying". You click that launcher, you'll get the logo. It's just that the innards will only be called EVE. The actual game EVE will be a thing of the past, and only people that were there then will remember it. Everyone who came along later will have no idea what it was...only what it is....EVE....to them. I survived Win95
Jenshae Chiroptera 1463	Posted - 2015.05.03 18:01:57 - [202] - Quote Gank, alpha, leet (even one of the first creatures), uber and kite were all used in Anarchy before WoW existed. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids . High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow Fozzie is treating a symptom.
Minmatar Citizen 534612187 Citizen Corp. 21	Posted - 2015.05.03 18:13:40 - [203] - Quote Otso Bakarti wrote: That's the problem with the WoW refugee. Look at it like this. Millions of these people grew up playing this one game. To them, it was the only game. All the press says so. So do all their friends. So, they acquire a mentality that they are the only true gamers, and all games must be some sort of WoW or they suck. Blizzard starts making some mistakes, alterations, accomodations, and basically hits a wall of economic reality against an unsatiable hunger from their playerbase that they themselves created. They stumble. They "became boring." (Note: The Panda). WoW players quit by the millions, and go wandering about looking for another game. Nature of Google and the Universe, they find us, and several other notable games. They arrive as God's gift to gaming and proceed to "suggest" how to make this game (all games) perfect, which amounts to some version or another of WoW. ("Ganking" is a term invented in WoW. It literally means "Jump on and one-shot a noob." You see how they've tried to massage the meaning here, and how CCP has attempted to define "ganking" in EVE.) WoW refugees and the future of EVE? Hey, it's a digital historic phenomena. It is being overcome by events. Because they're here EVE has no future. No, "EVE" isn't "dying". You click that launcher, you'll get the logo. It's just that the innards will only be called EVE. The actual game EVE will be a thing of the past, and only people that were there then will remember it. Everyone who came along later will have no idea what it was...only what it is....EVE....to them. I've played EVE for like a month, and even I can tell that this is prophetic.
Mister Ripley Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 15	Posted - 2015.05.03 18:25:42 - [204] - Quote Otso Bakarti wrote: Dyner wrote: And here I thought people would just play games they enjoyed. That's the problem with the WoW refugee. Look at it like this. Millions of these people grew up playing this one game. To them, it was the only game. All the press says so. So do all their friends. So, they acquire a mentality that they are the only true gamers, and all games must be some sort of WoW or they suck. Blizzard starts making some mistakes, alterations, accomodations, and basically hits a wall of economic reality against an unsatiable hunger from their playerbase that they themselves created. They stumble. They "became boring." (Note: The Panda). WoW players quit by the millions, and go wandering about looking for another game. Nature of Google and the Universe, they find us, and several other notable games. They arrive as God's gift to gaming and proceed to "suggest" how to make this game (all games) perfect, which amounts to some version or another of WoW. ("Ganking" is a term invented in WoW. It literally means "Jump on and one-shot a noob." You see how they've tried to massage the meaning here, and how CCP has attempted to define "ganking" in EVE.) WoW refugees and the future of EVE? Hey, it's a digital historic phenomena. It is being overcome by events. Because they're here EVE has no future. No, "EVE" isn't "dying". You click that launcher, you'll get the logo. It's just that the innards will only be called EVE. The actual game EVE will be a thing of the past, and only people that were there then will remember it. Everyone who came along later will have no idea what it was...only what it is....EVE....to them. So it's kinda like this? With us up there on the bus?!
Mario Putzo 1396	Posted - 2015.05.03 18:26:13 - [205] - Quote Otso Bakarti wrote: Dyner wrote: And here I thought people would just play games they enjoyed. That's the problem with the WoW refugee. Look at it like this. Millions of these people grew up playing this one game. To them, it was the only game. All the press says so. So do all their friends. So, they acquire a mentality that they are the only true gamers, and all games must be some sort of WoW or they suck. That is the problem with the EVE player. Look at it like this. Hundreds of thousands of these people grew up playing this one game, To them, it was the only game. All the press says so. So do all their friends. So they acquire a mentality that they are the only true gamers, and all games must be some sort of EVE or they suck. Funny how that works eh. I have played lots of MMOs in my day, some longer than others, FFXI, WoW, EQ, Rift, ESO, LOTR, SWOTR, Guild Wars 1/2, FFXIV and FFXIV ARR, and of course EVE. I have played EVE since 06, and people have ALWAYS offered suggestions to make the game easier, some of them make it in, some of them get laughed, at. But the same can be said about every single one of the games I have played. Of that list on 4 games were really any different. FFXI, EQ, WOW, EVE. Pretty much everything else on that list is a clone of Blizzards WILDLY successful MMO model. You can say WoW scrubs this or that pandering to make the game easier blah blah, fact is in the time I have played EVE, long before WoW hit its peak, and Blizzard ****** it up, these people have existed. Rampant complaining about ganking resulted in changes to barges and even a crime watch overhaul, these were met of course by tears from the ganking community who claimed ganking was going to be dead...well ganking imo has never been more alive, and people can actually avoid being ganked easier too. The game did improve as whole with those changes. So no this isn't about WoW folks coming in and trying to change the game, people have always been doing that, and the same theme exists in every other game Ive played. Some folks want it to be easier, other folks say no its fine as it is. The only difference between the games is the mechanics that drive them, the communities are the same, because people are the same.
Dyner Midgard Protectorate 129	Posted - 2015.05.03 19:38:29 - [206] - Quote Otso Bakarti wrote: Dyner wrote: And here I thought people would just play games they enjoyed. That's the problem with the WoW refugee. Look at it like this. Millions of these people grew up playing this one game. To them, it was the only game. All the press says so. So do all their friends. So, they acquire a mentality that they are the only true gamers, and all games must be some sort of WoW or they suck. Blizzard starts making some mistakes, alterations, accomodations, and basically hits a wall of economic reality against an unsatiable hunger from their playerbase that they themselves created. They stumble. They "became boring." (Note: The Panda). WoW players quit by the millions, and go wandering about looking for another game. Nature of Google and the Universe, they find us, and several other notable games. They arrive as God's gift to gaming and proceed to "suggest" how to make this game (all games) perfect, which amounts to some version or another of WoW. ("Ganking" is a term invented in WoW. It literally means "Jump on and one-shot a noob." You see how they've tried to massage the meaning here, and how CCP has attempted to define "ganking" in EVE.) WoW refugees and the future of EVE? Hey, it's a digital historic phenomena. It is being overcome by events. Because they're here EVE has no future. No, "EVE" isn't "dying". You click that launcher, you'll get the logo. It's just that the innards will only be called EVE. The actual game EVE will be a thing of the past, and only people that were there then will remember it. Everyone who came along later will have no idea what it was...only what it is....EVE....to them. Despite what Blizzard has stated, Pandaria was made to boost revenue from their largest source of income, the Asian market. Typically, the Asian Market does not have subscriptions. They have "Prepaid Time". China had a ban on TBC all the way up through Cata. Wrath was under major rework, because one of China's....'views' is you can't have skeletons in a game (guess what Wrath was all about). So along comes Pandaria, with its heavy "Asian atmosphere". ((http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Blizzard-WoW-China-MoP-Pandaria,17423.html)) As for dumbing down the skill trees, that was done to hasten development. Much easier to finish if you only have 9 new talents per class. --- As for EVE. There's a difference between dumbing down and removing unnecessary work. Who here remembers spending almost the first month training the "Learning Skills" to reduce the overall time it takes to actually PLAY THE GAME. ((I still think CCP should add Skill Point drops in the game. Right now there's no reason for me to login and play.)) Or looking up Agent Guides on Google because there was no way to find them in game? People shot down Walking In Station with out even thinking of what it could mean... Gun fights in stations, Bar fights, Customizable internal Security Status for PoS via ISK-based purchases (Weapon Scanners, NPC Guards, Cameras, etc). A Firefly game done right.... But no, people jumped to conclusions and we're stuck with the same game that has had very little changes to the gameplay. --WTF, I still can't steer my ship with my KB&M or Joystick; I have to click all over the damn place to "steer". I can in Elite Dangerous and Star Citizen! ...there's a game out there that also listened to the 'hardcore' players and didn't want to streamline things for better adoption. It's called Darkfall: Unholy Wars (aka Darkfall 2; after the first one up and died due to a low playerbase). So tell me, do you want to have to have the game drop you within jump distance of the gate. Instead of making bookmarks that do it. Or do you want to receive and email informing you the server is being shutdown because it's no longer financially viable to keep it running. Because the game remained "hardcore" and had a huge 'Barrier to Entry'?
Mario Putzo 1398	Posted - 2015.05.03 20:32:57 - [207] - Quote I agree with most of this, but people resist change, most of all people in EVE because change can have huge rippling effects. Which is why CCP has to be cautious about what they develop. That being said its funny you brought up WiS, folks got pissed off when CCP didn't make changes to EVE gameplay, now other folks get pissed off that CCP is making changes to the gameplay and they still get pissed off. People are dumb.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 16300	Posted - 2015.05.04 07:32:16 - [208] - Quote People didn't "shoot down WiS without thinking what it means", they shot down WiS after seeing that it meant 2.5 years of development that produced nothing more than being able to sit in a seedy motel room until your video card caught fire. In comparison, look at how the game has updated in the last 30 months: 2.5 years ago, CCP released Retribution. That's what WiS cost EVE. We could have been where we are at now with respect to hundreds of UI improvements, code refactoring, feature rewrites, ship balancing, new features, et cetera back in Dec 2012. I had as high hopes for the potential of avatar gameplay as anyone, but the plain fact is that that CCP had no idea what to do with the idea, the project was appallingly mismanaged and it did huge damage to both CCP and the confidence of the playerbase in the game and the developers. The dev teams that produced Incarna have disbanded, most of the devs that worked on the engine have left CCP, the few that remain are deeply involved in other projects, and 2 successive EVE Executive Producers have stated in the plainest possible language that they have no plans whatsoever to restart the avatar project. Restarting Inarna would esentially require restarting the project from scratch, and CCP are very clear on the opportunity cost for making the attempt, even if you aren't: Quote: We could have been where we are at now with respect to hundreds of UI improvements, code refactoring, feature rewrites, ship balancing, new features, et cetera back in Dec 2012. CCP Seagull has repeatedly and recently made the plan for EVE over the next few years very clear, and it doesn't include any significant development of avatar gameplay. "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
Ersteen Hofs Republic University Minmatar Republic 20	Posted - 2015.05.04 10:16:30 - [209] - Quote What is it with EVE players always talking about WoW on these forums? 2.5 years ago I was fed up with WoW references on these forums and for the first time installed that game. Poof, 2.5 years of exciting EVE skill training gone. And you know what? WoW is still 100s of times better than EVE (even though right now it's too boring to play). Thank you for pointing me to that jewel! Subs count is still many million btw, while EVE's is still under even one of those. So keep telling yourselves you're elitist, some people don't care about that they just need an hour of relaxation instead of hour of killing nerve cells over lost virtual pixels and numbers, or an hour of sadistic pleasures over incurring such over other players. So I've came back and prolonged with my many billions just to see what's changed and I still can't tell what am I supposed to do in this game besides earning 900 mil per account each month... Probably it's just not made for me, or for most other people. EVE is just too niche. But why is this niche still tries to compare EVE with WoW? It's like comparing a bulldozer and a mercedes... Pretty pointless.
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 36682	Posted - 2015.05.04 10:26:42 - [210] - Quote Ersteen Hofs wrote: What is it with EVE players always talking about WoW on these forums? What percentage of eve players come here and talk about WOW? Stereotypes are often very limited in application. Especially one based on that statement. Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari

Dyner Midgard Protectorate 129	Posted - 2015.05.04 13:31:56 - [211] - Quote Malcanis wrote: -snip- Ya, WiS should have been a 'pet project' done by a small team like Team Best Friends Forever. And who knows, maybe we'll see it come back. I highly doubt they made a completely new code foundation for DUST, PC version of DUST (I don't recall it's name), and EVE: Valkyrie. So it wouldn't be a stretch to transfer those assets over. Those three sub-games of the EVE Universe incorporate exactly what I'd like to see in EVE Online. --- Ersteen Hofs wrote: -snipe- Right now the biggest issue I think EVE suffers from is it garners the same feeling as an FPS. You can jump in and play a few hours. Leave, and the come back when ever you feel like. And the items just feel like Unlocks because of the ridiculous time needed to train them (lol 18 days for a single skill that's required to unlock another skill that takes over 30 days to rank up). ...like for me, I don't actually have to login for another 35 days, when my skill queue will be empty. And if I want to earn some ISK, I'll just go buy a PLEX because my time is worth more (to me) than $20 (plus I usually get them during the sales ). Right now there is zero active character progression (ie XP gains). -- I really do hate side progression in Characters.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 16305	Posted - 2015.05.04 15:13:22 - [212] - Quote Dyner wrote: Right now there is zero active character progression (ie XP gains). And thank Bob for that. "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
Solecist Project Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD 23451	Posted - 2015.05.04 15:17:42 - [213] - Quote Malcanis wrote: Dyner wrote: Right now there is zero active character progression (ie XP gains). And thank Bob for that. Would you like your afterburner go 100msec faster? Have fun orbitting that rock afk for a few hours! Sooo engaging! :O DOES YELLING ANNOY YOU ? LIKE MY IDEA BELOW AND I WILL REMOVE IT !! Corpses4Drifters CLICK THE LINK !! YOU LIKE THE IDEA !! FOR EVEN MORE PLAYER DRIVEN CONTENT !!
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 23721	Posted - 2015.05.04 15:20:40 - [214] - Quote Dyner wrote: Right now there is zero active character progression (ie XP gains) That right there is half of the appeal. Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 10871	Posted - 2015.05.04 15:28:24 - [215] - Quote What you posted: Malcanis wrote: People didn't "shoot down WiS without thinking what it means", they shot down WiS after seeing that it meant 2.5 years of development that produced nothing more than being able to sit in a seedy motel room until your video card caught fire. In comparison, look at how the game has updated in the last 30 months: 2.5 years ago, CCP released Retribution. That's what WiS cost EVE. We could have been where we are at now with respect to hundreds of UI improvements, code refactoring, feature rewrites, ship balancing, new features, et cetera back in Dec 2012. I had as high hopes for the potential of avatar gameplay as anyone, but the plain fact is that that CCP had no idea what to do with the idea, the project was appallingly mismanaged and it did huge damage to both CCP and the confidence of the playerbase in the game and the developers. The dev teams that produced Incarna have disbanded, most of the devs that worked on the engine have left CCP, the few that remain are deeply involved in other projects, and 2 successive EVE Executive Producers have stated in the plainest possible language that they have no plans whatsoever to restart the avatar project. Restarting Inarna would esentially require restarting the project from scratch, and CCP are very clear on the opportunity cost for making the attempt, even if you aren't: Quote: We could have been where we are at now with respect to hundreds of UI improvements, code refactoring, feature rewrites, ship balancing, new features, et cetera back in Dec 2012. CCP Seagull has repeatedly and recently made the plan for EVE over the next few years very clear, and it doesn't include any significant development of avatar gameplay. What they heard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss2hULhXf04
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 16306	Posted - 2015.05.04 15:35:11 - [216] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: What you posted: Malcanis wrote: People didn't "shoot down WiS without thinking what it means", they shot down WiS after seeing that it meant 2.5 years of development that produced nothing more than being able to sit in a seedy motel room until your video card caught fire. In comparison, look at how the game has updated in the last 30 months: 2.5 years ago, CCP released Retribution. That's what WiS cost EVE. We could have been where we are at now with respect to hundreds of UI improvements, code refactoring, feature rewrites, ship balancing, new features, et cetera back in Dec 2012. I had as high hopes for the potential of avatar gameplay as anyone, but the plain fact is that that CCP had no idea what to do with the idea, the project was appallingly mismanaged and it did huge damage to both CCP and the confidence of the playerbase in the game and the developers. The dev teams that produced Incarna have disbanded, most of the devs that worked on the engine have left CCP, the few that remain are deeply involved in other projects, and 2 successive EVE Executive Producers have stated in the plainest possible language that they have no plans whatsoever to restart the avatar project. Restarting Inarna would esentially require restarting the project from scratch, and CCP are very clear on the opportunity cost for making the attempt, even if you aren't: Quote: We could have been where we are at now with respect to hundreds of UI improvements, code refactoring, feature rewrites, ship balancing, new features, et cetera back in Dec 2012. CCP Seagull has repeatedly and recently made the plan for EVE over the next few years very clear, and it doesn't include any significant development of avatar gameplay. What they heard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss2hULhXf04 I know "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 10873	Posted - 2015.05.04 15:36:57 - [217] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Dyner wrote: Right now there is zero active character progression (ie XP gains) That right there is half of the appeal. Half? 2/3rds I'd say. That's a big huge point. I think there are quite a few of us who like EVE exactly because it doesn't work like a 'standard' mmo. I played wow for a few months and who whole "light show on level up" thing just didn't do anything for me at all. I was like "yay I can turn into a bear, big freakin whoop" lol. EVE isn't about some canned experience, it's about your own choices and CCP has been brilliant in that regard by not adding 'distractions' like 'leveling'. Since EVE doesn't things the exact opposite way of most MMOs I don't know why so many MMO types cling to it (and cry for changing it). There are plenty of mmos (some space themed like STO and SWTOR) that do things the normal way, why play EVE if that's what they like?
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 23725	Posted - 2015.05.04 15:37:55 - [218] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: What they heard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss2hULhXf04 Entirely too generous tbh, it's more like this. Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 10873	Posted - 2015.05.04 15:41:17 - [219] - Quote Dyner wrote: . Leave, and the come back when ever you feel like. Which is the entire point. MMOs use psychological 'tricks' to addict players, by making them act like rats in a maze. EVE treats us like adults that actually have other things to do. Quote: Right now there is zero active character progression (ie XP gains). -- I really do hate side progression in Characters. And yet here you are subscribed to EVE Online when there are literally thousands of other games to choose from.
Deacon Abox Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop 499	Posted - 2015.05.04 16:11:50 - [220] - Quote Dyner wrote: As for dumbing down the skill trees, that was done to hasten development. Much easier to finish if you only have 9 new talents per class. --- As for EVE. There's a difference between dumbing down and removing unnecessary work. Who here remembers spending almost the first month training the "Learning Skills" to reduce the overall time it takes to actually PLAY THE GAME. ((I still think CCP should add Skill Point drops in the game. Right now there's no reason for me to login and play.)) But you don't seem to get EVE. There is no "finish". You are importing a concept of skill progression that was never in this game and hopefully for those of us that love this game never will be. And because of that your "skill point drops" make no sense. You get a skill book and put it into the list of things that will train over time. As for no point to log in, again you don't get EVE. Many people log in as noobs. Train propulsion jamming. And soon are jumping into a battle in a poorly fit frig, getting a point on some juicy target, getting blown up, but having the rest of their gang in return blowing up that juicy target. Dyner wrote: ...there's a game out there that also listened to the 'hardcore' players and didn't want to streamline things for better adoption. It's called Darkfall: Unholy Wars (aka Darkfall 2; after the first one up and died due to a low playerbase). So tell me, do you want to have to have the game drop you within jump distance of the gate. Instead of making bookmarks that do it. Or do you want to receive and email informing you the server is being shutdown because it's no longer financially viable to keep it running. Because the game remained "hardcore" and had a huge 'Barrier to Entry'? I played Darkfall. I loved the visuals. I hated the repetitive skill grind. Bloodwalling stupidity etc. The eve skill system just makes so much more sense than other games. Because really, when you get right down to it, it's not what skills your character has. It's what you do with the skills your character has. That is EVE. Dyner wrote: Right now the biggest issue I think EVE suffers from is it garners the same feeling as an FPS. You can jump in and play a few hours. Leave, and the come back when ever you feel like. And the items just feel like Unlocks because of the ridiculous time needed to train them (lol 18 days for a single skill that's required to unlock another skill that takes over 30 days to rank up). ...like for me, I don't actually have to login for another 35 days, when my skill queue will be empty. And if I want to earn some ISK, I'll just go buy a PLEX because my time is worth more (to me) than $20 (plus I usually get them during the sales Cool ). Right now there is zero active character progression (ie XP gains). -- I really do hate side progression in Characters. unlocks? You are talking about training a ship skill to 5 I guess ? Are you really so impatient that you cant find fun things to do with a ship skill at 4 ? Your time is worth more? This is a game. The playing is what is or should be fun. Again, there is no finishing. No you don't grind to level 80 to have a max skilled character that then does stuff with a few other level 80 characters. That is not EVE. If you just don't find the actual playing of the game fun then so long. CCP, there are off buttons for ship explosions, missile effects, turret effects, etc. "Immersion" does not seem to be harmed by those. So, [u]please[/u] give us a persisting-áoff button for the jump gate and autoscan visuals.

Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 23726	Posted - 2015.05.04 16:23:28 - [221] - Quote Deacon Abox wrote: Because really, when you get right down to it, it's not what skills your character has. It's what you do with the skills your character has. That is EVE. Nailed it. What you do with the stuff CCP have provided is far more important than the stuff itself. Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Dyner Midgard Protectorate 129	Posted - 2015.05.04 17:09:30 - [222] - Quote Deacon Abox wrote: -snip- I'm picking your's to spring board to all the others I get EVE. EVE is the real world...if we hadn't had the Dark Ages. If you can think of it offline; chances are you can do it in-game (ie Scamming, Pirating, Policing, Military Conquest, Economic Collapse, and a host more). All while flying a mother F-ing space ship! And even with all that. EVE still feels like all the other MMOs I've played...once I get to the max level. -- Everything is just side upgrades. I really don't care about grinding faction rep (I mean LP) or farming ISK. I want to see my character become stronger. ....but that'll happen in 23 days, once I train this skill to Rank 5 ......and another 10 days, once I train the skill that the previous skill required to Rank 4. Or. I want to try this new avenue of gameplay; like Scanning/Exploration. ..oh. It'll take about 20 days to properly train the skills needed. By then the "neatness" of this avenue has faded and meh has set in. ((This happened when I was training for Caldari Battleships; <3 Rokh)) --- While I'm playing EVE, I feel like I'm not progressing. It feels like an FPS. --- And no. Under no circumstances do I want this game to become easier to play. I only wish it to be faster to play your way. To which, CCP has begun to do so. By trimming Skills Books, adding lower class ships that get you into that avenue of gameplay (Mining Frigs, Exploration Frigs, etc). So, hey, add a means of faster SP gains. Or add more ships that don't require a crap-ton of training to properly fly and I'll be happy. PS: Frig Wars...make it so!
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 23728	Posted - 2015.05.04 17:32:19 - [223] - Quote Dyner wrote: I get EVE. EVE is the real world...if we hadn't had the Dark Ages. If you can think of it offline; chances are you can do it in-game (ie Scamming, Pirating, Policing, Military Conquest, Economic Collapse, and a host more). All while flying a mother F-ing space ship! And even with all that. EVE still feels like all the other MMOs I've played...once I get to the max level. -- Everything is just side upgrades. That's where you're going wrong, Eve doesn't have max levels , just as it doesn't have an endgame. Those side upgrades are there to further enhance your character. Quote: I want to see my character become stronger. ....but that'll happen in 23 days, once I train this skill to Rank 5 ......and another 10 days, once I train the skill that the previous skill required to Rank 4. Or. I want to try this new avenue of gameplay; like Scanning/Exploration. ..oh. It'll take about 20 days to properly train the skills needed. By then the "neatness" of this avenue has faded and meh has set in. ((This happened when I was training for Caldari Battleships; <3 Rokh)). SP is nothing without the ability to leverage that SP effectively; something which is entirely in the hands of the player, not CCP. Quote: To which, CCP has begun to do so. By trimming Skills Books, adding lower class ships that get you into that avenue of gameplay (Mining Frigs, Exploration Frigs, etc). While it is true that CCP have removed some of the skillbooks, they have also introduced some new ones. With reference to mining frigates and exploration frigates, CCP have certainly introduced some new one, but only to replace the existing ones that had their focus changed during teiricide. Quote: So, hey, add a means of faster SP gains. Or add more ships that don't require a crap-ton of training to properly fly and I'll be happy. This already exists, they're called implants. Quote: PS: Frig Wars...make it so! One word RvB Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Dyner Midgard Protectorate 129	Posted - 2015.05.04 17:51:42 - [224] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: I would say "Max level" would be the ideal skills to fly a particular ship you've set your sights on.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 23729	Posted - 2015.05.04 18:00:46 - [225] - Quote Dyner wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: I would say "Max level" would be the ideal skills to fly a particular ship you've set your sights on. That's fair enough, but when you talk about other MMO's and max level characters in the same sentence most people will assume you mean a character that has hit the hard cap in those games, for example a lvl 85 in WoW Cataclysm. Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Joe Atei Aes Dei Asher 5	Posted - 2015.05.04 20:25:09 - [226] - Quote Dyner wrote: -Lots of stuff- I personally didn't train the learning skills until I was a year and half into Eve. I wasn't some idiot loser taking bad advice when I heard it. I'm new to the game and have no isk, why would I b-line for something that didn't benefit me immediately? You don't go around buying stocks with loose change. You build up your wealth first, and then invest it. Learning skills were in the same park. People did learn it first and burned out before they could properly burn out. Meanwhile, I'm over here filthy rich after 3 months while they're borrowing money from me. To be fair, I only took advice with a grain of salt. After all, this is a video game that's supposed to be cold and harsh. Not some care bear space land where everyone is trust worthy. I'm not saying that care bear activities should be absolved either. I just know what the game is really about. Don't get me wrong, the learning skills were essential, just as having large guns on a battleship is typically essential. But they were in no way a requirement. And guess what this noob did when he got his first battleship, I put medium artillery on it and proceeded to do level threes while people who were still learning training skills were flat broke. The initial start sets the pace for the rest of your eve experience. Mine was nothing but fun. Even the boring parts. Now, I feel I need to say this. I'm in no way bragging. I'm stating my experience. I'm just an average player, and if I were to be honest, probably slightly below average. The only difference between people like me and you? I didn't take complete strangers' advice as the truth. Also, looking up mission guides is like using a scout alt to save your precious ships from unexpected doom. It's cheap and dumb. When I discovered some guides online I never shared it with anyone except RL friends. Because people like you suffer when you aren't spoon fed information and this allows me to get ahead. If anything, the lack of information on parts of the game should excite people. Knowing everything before actually experiencing it is like spoiling a good book. What's the point to continue reading it? What's the point of learning how to improvise and experiment if there are guides to tell you everything you need to know to succeed. , the sad part about all of this is people still manage to lose when all the information is available to them. When I played games like WoW or Wildstar, I liked to do dungeons at a slow pace and learn as I go. But, if I looked up a good guide before my first time doing a raid or dungeon, i never died (barring bad groups and RNG). Even in a game like Wildstar, where there were guides and circles appeared on the floor before an attack was made, people were still failing left and right and whining about how silver was too hard to get. What did the company do to save their dwindling numbers? Made raid entry easier. For a company that advertised, no boasted, about how hardcore they were, that turned them into a hypocritical company. That made me quit and I was not the only one. An attempt to recover revenue because their game was too much like WoW made it where everyone in my guild quit the game. People will argue they left because raids were too hard to do, but at the end of the day these same people would have left when there wasn't enough content or when they got bored. There has to be things to set apart the good from the bad. Otherwise, people would never have a reason to continue playing video games once they realize it's all the same crap. EvE is trying to streamline while trying to stay hardcore. News flash, both can't be done. If it could, it would have already been done. After all, we live in an age of rehashes and remakes because we ran out of ideas. I do not want Eve to turn into WoW in space. If it does, I will be gone. If I wanted to play a modified version of WoW I'd just hop on one of them private servers. I do agree with you about walking in stations, it could be so much more, but I doubt it would have met our expectations. After all, the company was doing things like releasing dust on PS3 only. It would have been much more well received as a PC game and WiS should have been the middle man between space ships and FPS. It's too late now, the interest and hype is gone and the game has a bad rep. Releasing it on PC may prove to be a negative action. Although, a simple poll, on both Eve and Dust's main website that is linked together, could tell more truth than my opinion which is based off of forums posts (minorities). Now the game is practically dead and EvE's daily numbers are looking a lot less than I used to remember them. It's not the difficulty of EvE that made those numbers go down. http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility By the way, you can manually steer your ship. Regardless of what I just said earlier about making the playing field harder for me, you gotta set wasd from its default shortcuts to the steering keys. I have been neutralizing transversal for my artillery since 2006 by clicking in empty space, now I do it immediately with more precision.
Dyner Midgard Protectorate 129	Posted - 2015.05.04 20:55:20 - [227] - Quote Joe Atei wrote: Dyner wrote: -Lots of stuff- -even more stuff than me - I used the EVE Fitter to plan out what ships I wanted. Learning Skills shaved something like 36 days off the total time. So after the basics for flying a Destroyer, I spent my time training the Learning Skills. As for Agent Guides. I meant doing what the Agent Finder does now; looking up the agent in the role you want to do (Security, Industry, R&D, etc). --I don't recall there being an easy way to find Agents from with in the game. You just kind of docked and looked. I never knew you could rebind steering to the keyboard...I'll have to give that a whirl with my Joystick
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 2305	Posted - 2015.05.04 21:55:31 - [228] - Quote Hopefully wow refugees all just join the game and commence leveling their ravens. Those are my favorite type of person to shoot at. They make the best squealing sounds and drop the best loot. God knows I don't expect wow players to actually stay playing EVE, it's not exactly an instant-gratification, everyone's a hero, free rewards for nothing fest.
Paranoid Loyd 5030	Posted - 2015.05.04 22:00:15 - [229] - Quote Vimsy Vortis wrote: Hopefully wow refugees all just join the game and commence leveling their ravens. Those are my favorite type of person to shoot at. They make the best squealing sounds and drop the best loot. God knows I don't expect wow players to actually stay playing EVE, it's not exactly an instant-gratification, everyone's a hero, free rewards for nothing fest. You're my hero. "Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata Fix the Prospect!!!
Avaelica Kuershin 54	Posted - 2015.05.04 23:14:38 - [230] - Quote Dyner wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: I would say "Max level" would be the ideal skills to fly a particular ship you've set your sights on. In which case I've max-leveled a couple of times already (and almost so on a few others)

Cipher Jones The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars 1231	Posted - 2015.05.05 14:38:11 - [231] - Quote GenericForumAlt 1267389 wrote: I've been seeing a lot more complaining than usual about the WoW refugees recently. Seems it spiked when CCP announced permanent ship skins. The people who are so quick to complain about how entitled the wow community is are in a way entitled themselves. CCP is a company and making the game more appealing or easier gets subs. I'm in a new player friendly corp in nullsec and our numbers have been swelling with people completely new to EVE, its almost 2 a day at this point. We don't get vets unsubbing and most are happy with the changes that are happening. EVE isn't "your" sandbox its "a" sandbox, yeah yeah my 15 dollars a month blah blah same argument the people in WoW use. I think its time to come to terms with the fact that EVE Online is not the same game it was 10 years ago and it will never be. Ship skins, clothing, refined UI some of the most heated topics recently are all massive revenue drivers for other companies. Of course CCP is going to add them and to think they won't try to make revenue because of the vocal minority bitching about it on the forums is just idiotic. CCP isn't going to hold their game and company profits back because you feel dissatisfied with a change that has no impact on gameplay, get over it. The complaining might have spiked, but server activity didnt. If theres a spike in crossover from wow, then theres a bigger dip in veterans. Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities.-á
thowlimer Roprocor Ltd 26	Posted - 2015.05.05 15:03:10 - [232] - Quote Dyner wrote: Joe Atei wrote: Dyner wrote: -Lots of stuff- -even more stuff than me - I used the EVE Fitter to plan out what ships I wanted. Learning Skills shaved something like 36 days off the total time. So after the basics for flying a Destroyer, I spent my time training the Learning Skills. As for Agent Guides. I meant doing what the Agent Finder does now; looking up the agent in the role you want to do (Security, Industry, R&D, etc). --I don't recall there being an easy way to find Agents from with in the game. You just kind of docked and looked. I never knew you could rebind steering to the keyboard...I'll have to give that a whirl with my Joystick Corp info/agent tab ...(and you could pull up all the corps for each faction using the info tab on faction first and their corp list)
Lina Sovereign Astromechanica Maxima Astromechanica Federatis 2	Posted - 2015.05.05 16:16:33 - [233] - Quote WoW is the best PvE RP game, you can't deny it, lore & raids are awesome. Now EvE's a sandbox where players are writing their own story, goals are very different, and it's useless to compare them. That said, we are not better because we play at EvE, we just like this kind of game, that's all.
Solecist Project Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD 23643	Posted - 2015.05.05 19:42:40 - [234] - Quote Lina Sovereign wrote: WoW is the best PvE RP game, you can't deny it, lore & raids are awesome. Now EvE's a sandbox where players are writing their own story, goals are very different, and it's useless to compare them. That said, we are not better because we play at EvE, we just like this kind of game, that's all. Actually we are indeed better. EVE is way harder than WoW and needs some actual brain matter to play it. Of course you don't have to be smart about it, but those people could play WoW as well ... ... and probably wouldn't notice a difference. DOES YELLING ANNOY YOU ? LIKE MY IDEA BELOW AND I WILL REMOVE IT !! Corpses4Drifters CLICK THE LINK !! YOU LIKE THE IDEA !! FOR EVEN MORE PLAYER DRIVEN CONTENT !!
DaReaper Net 7 2015	Posted - 2015.05.05 20:00:13 - [235] - Quote Malcanis wrote: People didn't "shoot down WiS without thinking what it means", they shot down WiS after seeing that it meant 2.5 years of development that produced nothing more than being able to sit in a seedy motel room until your video card caught fire. In comparison, look at how the game has updated in the last 30 months: 2.5 years ago, CCP released Retribution. That's what WiS cost EVE. We could have been where we are at now with respect to hundreds of UI improvements, code refactoring, feature rewrites, ship balancing, new features, et cetera back in Dec 2012. I had as high hopes for the potential of avatar gameplay as anyone, but the plain fact is that that CCP had no idea what to do with the idea, the project was appallingly mismanaged and it did huge damage to both CCP and the confidence of the playerbase in the game and the developers. The dev teams that produced Incarna have disbanded, most of the devs that worked on the engine have left CCP, the few that remain are deeply involved in other projects, and 2 successive EVE Executive Producers have stated in the plainest possible language that they have no plans whatsoever to restart the avatar project. Restarting Inarna would esentially require restarting the project from scratch, and CCP are very clear on the opportunity cost for making the attempt, even if you aren't: Quote: We could have been where we are at now with respect to hundreds of UI improvements, code refactoring, feature rewrites, ship balancing, new features, et cetera back in Dec 2012. CCP Seagull has repeatedly and recently made the plan for EVE over the next few years very clear, and it doesn't include any significant development of avatar gameplay. avatar gameplay is wanted, hell people ask for it all the bloody time. If ccp had been able to maintina eve and give us wis right then it would be here, but they didn;t. The only way they can go back to WiS is if they keep on the path they ar eon, repair broken crap and bring us nw fun stuff. Still a long way to go. forget the last 30 months, the last year since they started the new release cycle has made me very excited for eves future. OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
DaReaper Net 7 2015	Posted - 2015.05.05 20:05:41 - [236] - Quote The mentality of WoW and 'traditional' mmo's is the issue with new players. Not that they think wow is superior, its that they have the mindset of eve is a theme park.. just a crappy boring one. Thats the issue. Its like you live in So-Cal, go to all the theme parks in the area all the time, then a buddy goes 'hey lets go to the beach today' and you think 'the beach? well thats a theme park i have not been to! lets go!' So you all show up and you look around and go 'gee.. no rides? no go here first? wtf?' That is the problem. CCP doesn't need tp change eve's core, just clean up the beach, maybe ajus some of the rocks that you walk on as you enter the beach, so you touch the sand wihtout a broken ancle. What needs to be emphisized, is that in eve you cna do ANYTHING. I had a co worker who would of LOVED eve. I tried to get him to try it, but was told 'oh i only play new games i hate playing catch up' and it took me a bit to relaize wtf he ment. I'm starting to think ccp shoudl eliminate skill points. Kill them completely. You train skills based on time, but you earn no sp's. Then again, that would be a real mental kick int he ass for some people lol OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
Cipher Jones The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars 1232	Posted - 2015.05.06 17:48:34 - [237] - Quote Solecist Project wrote: Lina Sovereign wrote: WoW is the best PvE RP game, you can't deny it, lore & raids are awesome. Now EvE's a sandbox where players are writing their own story, goals are very different, and it's useless to compare them. That said, we are not better because we play at EvE, we just like this kind of game, that's all. Actually we are indeed better. EVE is way harder than WoW and needs some actual brain matter to play it. Of course you don't have to be smart about it, but those people could play WoW as well ... ... and probably wouldn't notice a difference. I've never done any huge scale Nullsec wars in eve, but the top tier of raiding in Wow is harder than Any wormholes, lowsec, or highsec activites by far. And when you say "we" realize that a huge percentage of Eve players play WoW, and a small percentage of WoW players play Eve. Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities.-á
Frostys Virpio The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc 1773	Posted - 2015.05.06 17:58:33 - [238] - Quote Cipher Jones wrote: Solecist Project wrote: Lina Sovereign wrote: WoW is the best PvE RP game, you can't deny it, lore & raids are awesome. Now EvE's a sandbox where players are writing their own story, goals are very different, and it's useless to compare them. That said, we are not better because we play at EvE, we just like this kind of game, that's all. Actually we are indeed better. EVE is way harder than WoW and needs some actual brain matter to play it. Of course you don't have to be smart about it, but those people could play WoW as well ... ... and probably wouldn't notice a difference. I've never done any huge scale Nullsec wars in eve, but the top tier of raiding in Wow is harder than Any wormholes, lowsec, or highsec activites by far. And when you say "we" realize that a huge percentage of Eve players play WoW, and a small percentage of WoW players play Eve. They just don't compare well. Their difficulty come from things completely opposite from each others.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 16325	Posted - 2015.05.06 19:47:04 - [239] - Quote DaReaper wrote: Malcanis wrote: People didn't "shoot down WiS without thinking what it means", they shot down WiS after seeing that it meant 2.5 years of development that produced nothing more than being able to sit in a seedy motel room until your video card caught fire. In comparison, look at how the game has updated in the last 30 months: 2.5 years ago, CCP released Retribution. That's what WiS cost EVE. We could have been where we are at now with respect to hundreds of UI improvements, code refactoring, feature rewrites, ship balancing, new features, et cetera back in Dec 2012. I had as high hopes for the potential of avatar gameplay as anyone, but the plain fact is that that CCP had no idea what to do with the idea, the project was appallingly mismanaged and it did huge damage to both CCP and the confidence of the playerbase in the game and the developers. The dev teams that produced Incarna have disbanded, most of the devs that worked on the engine have left CCP, the few that remain are deeply involved in other projects, and 2 successive EVE Executive Producers have stated in the plainest possible language that they have no plans whatsoever to restart the avatar project. Restarting Inarna would esentially require restarting the project from scratch, and CCP are very clear on the opportunity cost for making the attempt, even if you aren't: Quote: We could have been where we are at now with respect to hundreds of UI improvements, code refactoring, feature rewrites, ship balancing, new features, et cetera back in Dec 2012. CCP Seagull has repeatedly and recently made the plan for EVE over the next few years very clear, and it doesn't include any significant development of avatar gameplay. avatar gameplay is wanted, hell people ask for it all the bloody time. If ccp had been able to maintina eve and give us wis right then it would be here, but they didn;t. The only way they can go back to WiS is if they keep on the path they ar eon, repair broken crap and bring us nw fun stuff. Still a long way to go. forget the last 30 months, the last year since they started the new release cycle has made me very excited for eves future. You're confusing "things I want" with "things I'm going to get". It's kind of cute when my nephew does that, but then he's only 4. What's your excuse? "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
Kamala Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 6	Posted - 2015.05.06 20:35:41 - [240] - Quote Malcanis wrote: You're confusing "things I want" with "things I'm going to get". It's kind of cute when my nephew does that, but then he's only 4. What's your excuse? Typical forum warrior response. Why can't you just reply like a normal person?

Alpheias Euphoria Released Triumvirate. 8521	Posted - 2015.05.06 20:56:52 - [241] - Quote Lina Sovereign wrote: WoW is the best PvE RP game, you can't deny it, lore & raids are awesome. Now EvE's a sandbox where players are writing their own story, goals are very different, and it's useless to compare them. That said, we are not better because we play at EvE, we just like this kind of game, that's all. The only thing about WoW that is undeniable up to this point, is that WoW is the most successful western themepark-MMO in the west when you look at the number of subscriptions (which pales in comparison to some of the long running Asian MMOs). Everything else is subjective. I'd argue that I am better than a WoW player because I have yet to meet a WoW player that cannot play the game (raids and whatnot) without mods. Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord. Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.
Lupe Meza Hedion University Amarr Empire 109	Posted - 2015.05.06 21:15:18 - [242] - Quote Lina Sovereign wrote: WoW is the best PvE RP game, you can't deny it, lore & raids are awesome. Now EvE's a sandbox where players are writing their own story, goals are very different, and it's useless to compare them. That said, we are not better because we play at EvE, we just like this kind of game, that's all. Pretty much. But the chest beating is pretty entertaining. Both games excel at what they set out to do and there is good reason why WoW is a metric by which all MMO's are measured. I did my 3 years, eventually lost interest. But I'm not going to pretend I didn't enjoy it while I played it like some type of videogame hipster. I had fun, until I didn't, and eventually moved on. Not because of any fault of the game, my priorities have shifted priorities and I could no longer reconcile devoting so much freetime to the never ending gear grind and arena seasons. I just can't be bothered to progress in something to have it wiped away and then start again. The journey was enjoyable to be sure, but I just couldn't keep doing it, no longer having that kind of time. EVE is the only MMO I'm actively playing solely because of it's design. Depending on the amount of time I have I have a bunch of things I can log on and do and barring dying in a ball of flame my "progression" will be there a day, a week, or a month later. My characters advance without me having to actively do things like "leveling". Not that there is anything wrong with games that use this system, but I tend to be left in the dust. I used to be a hardcore gamer but as I got older, not necessarily from desire but from a lack of time and shifting priorities, I've become more and more casual. While that is a dirty word to many that play EVE as if you are not playing 23 hours a day with a bucket next you, you're doing it wrong; it is that complicated, obscure, and sometimes convoluted game mechanics aside this game is actually very casual friendly in it's design. There is no endgame content to get. A level 5 skill will be a level 5 skill forever; no need to prepare for the level 6 skills next patch. A player in the blingiest ship will still die in a ball of fire to a ship that costs a couple of million, unlike some level 80(or whatever the cap is now in WoW) decked out in the best PVP gear. You can go where you want, when you want, from Day 1 in EVE. It's just a totally different experience from most MMO's. I'm not going to say it is better or worse intrinsically "because it is EVE and so difficult etc." because difficulty doesn't make a game good in and of itself. While it can and does need improvements, EVE is not perfect, fears of it turning into "WoW" are overreactions. There is plenty of room for changes to EVE that improve the appeal and experience without the game losing its identity. Improving balance and accessibility aren't negative in and of themselves and crucial parts of any game. The game is 12 years old. If it is going to be around another 12 it will need to "adapt or die"; but I doubt it will ever get the SWG treatment and abandon its core.
Joe Atei Aes Dei Asher 6	Posted - 2015.05.06 22:20:06 - [243] - Quote Alpheias wrote: Lina Sovereign wrote: WoW is the best PvE RP game, you can't deny it, lore & raids are awesome. Now EvE's a sandbox where players are writing their own story, goals are very different, and it's useless to compare them. That said, we are not better because we play at EvE, we just like this kind of game, that's all. The only thing about WoW that is undeniable up to this point, is that WoW is the most successful western themepark-MMO in the west when you look at the number of subscriptions (which pales in comparison to some of the long running Asian MMOs). Everything else is subjective. I'd argue that I am better than a WoW player because I have yet to meet a WoW player that cannot play the game (raids and whatnot) without mods. You know what, that was always something that bugged me about the community. Hell, after the first expansion I was basically left for dead in the raid scene because I didn't want to download grid or whatever that horrible ui mod was. I will admit, towards the end of my time in WoW, I did use archud, the original one, because it allowed me to tunnel vision and know my resources at all time. Was quite the advantage.
Gallowmere Rorschach Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation 1006	Posted - 2015.05.06 22:37:31 - [244] - Quote Alpheias wrote: I'd argue that I am better than a WoW player because I have yet to meet a WoW player that cannot play the game (raids and whatnot) without mods. I'd say that's more indicative of WoW having a really ****** stock UI (which almost everyone can agree it does) than anything having to do with the players. Unless something has changed a lot in the few years since I played WoW, raiding without mods would be a lot like playing Eve without the overview. Is it doable? Absolutely. Does anyone actually want to? Maybe only the most masochistic among us.
Jenshae Chiroptera 1480	Posted - 2015.05.06 23:11:15 - [245] - Quote I do so love how the same people bring the same topics, with rehearsed responses into other threads, so they can try to appear as though they are intelligent. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids . High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow Fozzie is treating a symptom.
Mr Epeen It's All About Me 8496	Posted - 2015.05.07 00:42:46 - [246] - Quote I don't have a clue how to tell a WOW refugee from the 10% of EVE players that are neither current nor former WOW players. From what I've seen you WOW refugees are the norm and not the exception, which makes me scratch my head in confusion when I see y'all bashing yourselves on a regular basis. Anonymity only goes so far people. You spill more and more info about yourselves every time you post. I may not know who you are in real life, but I sure know from your posting that 90% of you have lived in the land of elves and fairies. So stop with the WOW rage. Or pull your hair out in front of a mirror to see the person you are actually putting down with all your insults. Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
Gallowmere Rorschach Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation 1007	Posted - 2015.05.07 00:45:34 - [247] - Quote Mr Epeen wrote: I don't have a clue how to tell a WOW refugee from the 10% of EVE players that are neither current nor former WOW players. From what I've seen you WOW refugees are the norm and not the exception, which makes me scratch my head in confusion when I see y'all bashing yourselves on a regular basis. Anonymity only goes so far people. You spill more and more info about yourselves every time you post. I may not know who you are in real life, but I sure know from your posting that 90% of you have lived in the land of elves and fairies. So stop with the WOW rage. Or pull your hair out in front of a mirror to see the person you are actually putting down with all your insults. Mr Epeen I may or may not have stabbed a few (thousand) dragons over the course of my life. I feel so ashamed. Eh, it's okay. If not for Eve being what it is, I'd never admit to having anything to do with sci-fi crap either.
Avaelica Kuershin 54	Posted - 2015.05.07 01:08:39 - [248] - Quote Mr Epeen wrote: I don't have a clue how to tell a WOW refugee from the 10% of EVE players that are neither current nor former WOW players. From what I've seen you WOW refugees are the norm and not the exception, which makes me scratch my head in confusion when I see y'all bashing yourselves on a regular basis. Anonymity only goes so far people. You spill more and more info about yourselves every time you post. I may not know who you are in real life, but I sure know from your posting that 90% of you have lived in the land of elves and fairies. So stop with the WOW rage. Or pull your hair out in front of a mirror to see the person you are actually putting down with all your insults. Mr Epeen Ah, so you've noticed that! There are the refugees who feel they are superior because they have escaped. There are the refugees who haven't fully put it behind them and want to change EvE. Kind of reminds me of recovering nicotine addicts. (Yes, I am one of those too)
Jenshae Chiroptera 1481	Posted - 2015.05.07 11:21:20 - [249] - Quote Mr Epeen wrote: ... I sure know from your posting that 90% of you have lived in the land of elves and fairies. ... While they played it; did they like it or were they compelled by someone in real life? WoW refugees are the people who liked the game, have lost their interest in it now due to changes done and are now either looking for a replacement or to get other games dumbed down to the levels they can enjoy them. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids . High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow Fozzie is treating a symptom.
Gerhard Stringfellow Fisherbody Trading Company 21	Posted - 2015.05.07 12:17:35 - [250] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Mr Epeen wrote: ... I sure know from your posting that 90% of you have lived in the land of elves and fairies. ... While they played it; did they like it or were they compelled by someone in real life? WoW refugees are the people who liked the game, have lost their interest in it now due to changes done and are now either looking for a replacement or to get other games dumbed down to the levels they can enjoy them. I think this is a key point. I actually lost interest in WoW because I was playing it like EvE and just trading margins in the very early days of vanilla (which were absolutely lucrative, somewhere in the ballpark of 20000% markup for simply gathering schematics and trading them on AH). But after awhile I realized I couldn't really do much with the money I'd made, and they took away zerging instances (flooding a higher level raid/etc with tons and tons of low level characters) which seemed to force a really boring way of playing where you had a certain low number of high level people running zones. I think in all honesty I played the game for maybe four months. tl;dr I played but you couldn't really impact anything and they wanted people to play a certain way Another pubbie elite PvE pay to win mining carebear

Adriana Nolen Sama Guild 98	Posted - 2015.05.08 11:57:08 - [251] - Quote Alpheias wrote: I'd argue that I am better than a WoW player because I have yet to meet a WoW player that cannot play the game (raids and whatnot) without mods. & now you have. It really depends on which position they are playing. I could wing it with dps & tanking but healing required them. Edit: People from PVP servers tend to do just fine in eve.
Cipher Jones The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars 1232	Posted - 2015.05.08 19:06:27 - [252] - Quote Wis didn't get "shot down", it failed on the development level, then it received little support due to the huge resource investment for no payoff. Other than being able to hack your TV to watch my little pony of course. Also, WoW might be the best fantasy MMO RPG as far as PvE, but AA has the sandbox aspect of that beat by miles, and the PvE in Eve is incredible. So much so that both WoW and AA incorporated the PLEX system. Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities.-á
Dyner Midgard Protectorate 129	Posted - 2015.05.11 17:03:17 - [253] - Quote thowlimer wrote: Dyner wrote: Joe Atei wrote: Dyner wrote: -Lots of stuff- -even more stuff than me - I used the EVE Fitter to plan out what ships I wanted. Learning Skills shaved something like 36 days off the total time. So after the basics for flying a Destroyer, I spent my time training the Learning Skills. As for Agent Guides. I meant doing what the Agent Finder does now; looking up the agent in the role you want to do (Security, Industry, R&D, etc). --I don't recall there being an easy way to find Agents from with in the game. You just kind of docked and looked. I never knew you could rebind steering to the keyboard...I'll have to give that a whirl with my Joystick Corp info/agent tab ...(and you could pull up all the corps for each faction using the info tab on faction first and their corp list) Yes, and it's far easier, now, to find the Agent in the field you want to specialize in.


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