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Christopher Multsanti Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.11.06 01:18:00 - [1] Edited by: Christopher Multsanti on 06/11/2006 01:20:13 A few people have said this a few times in different areas on these and forums in the past, and it gets me worked up every time. My opinion of the argument that people should not solo pvp is simple.....it's utter tosh. Discuss. [ER Public Relations Officer] [Is main activated, check, Post!]
Andargor theWise Disbelievers of Fate The SUdden Death Squad	Posted - 2006.11.06 01:22:00 - [2] lol? - Got grief?
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.11.06 01:23:00 - [3] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 06/11/2006 01:32:48 I agree. Unfortunately, from what I've seen, solo PvP is pretty much dead. If I go solo into enemy space, their mining ops and/or NPCers will simply log or warp to POS the instant I enter local. If I try to find a fight with a PvPer, I will get a blob of 15 ships jump on me the instant I aggress. Worse, this cycle is feeding on itself. The more solo PvP dies, the fewer solo PvPers there are. And the fewer solo PvPers there are, the harder it is to find someone to fight. And since you can't find someone to fight, you stop PvPing solo... etc. Correct me if you have evidence to the contrary, but these days all I see going on are three categories of combat: 1. Large fleets fighting each other. 2. Medium sized gangs running away from larger medium sized gangs, and trying to camp gates or find smaller medium sized gangs to kill. 3. Small gank squads with specialty ships like the Rook designed to be invincible against solo PvPers and smaller gangs. -[23] Member- Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON!
Firane Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.06 01:25:00 - [4] Dark stop making so much sense.
Vazion	Posted - 2006.11.06 01:29:00 - [5] Originally by: Christopher Multsanti Edited by: Christopher Multsanti on 06/11/2006 01:20:13 A few people have said this a few times in different areas on these and forums in the past, and it gets me worked up every time. My opinion of the argument that people should not solo pvp is simple.....it's utter tosh. Discuss. Obligatory: If you'd like to pay for my account then I will not do any solo PvP. If I continue to pay for my account..I will play however I want.
Deriger	Posted - 2006.11.06 01:31:00 - [6] Whoever says that needs to be summarily executed.
Christopher Multsanti Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.11.06 01:32:00 - [7] Originally by: Dark Shikari I agree. Unfortunately, from what I've seen, solo PvP is pretty much dead. If I go solo into enemy space, their mining ops and/or NPCers will simply log the instant I enter local. If I try to find a fight with a PvPer, I will get a blob of 15 ships jump on me the instant I aggress. Worse, this cycle is feeding on itself. The more solo PvP dies, the fewer solo PvPers there are. And the fewer solo PvPers there are, the harder it is to find someone to fight. And since you can't find someone to fight, you stop PvPing solo... etc. Dark I can't believe I am gonna say this, but I agree with you 100%. And to add to that, the worst fear people have is that they will get ganked by "teh blob". Alliances in 0.0 started to order pilots not to travel solo due to the risk of getting ganked, and this has continued to spiral into not pvp'ing alone, now noone goes out in 0.0 alone (there are a few exceptions). Before anyone leaves a safespot they must have a gang they feel confident will not get ganked by a bigger gang!!!! Killboards, public humiliation of loss, dictors and large alliance mentality has meant that solo pvp is getting it hard and dry. [ER Public Relations Officer] [Is main activated, check, Post!]
Christopher Multsanti Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.11.06 01:34:00 - [8] Originally by: Deriger Whoever says that needs to be summarily executed. Fire at will. [ER Public Relations Officer] [Is main activated, check, Post!]
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.11.06 01:35:00 - [9] Originally by: Christopher Multsanti Originally by: Dark Shikari I agree. Unfortunately, from what I've seen, solo PvP is pretty much dead. If I go solo into enemy space, their mining ops and/or NPCers will simply log the instant I enter local. If I try to find a fight with a PvPer, I will get a blob of 15 ships jump on me the instant I aggress. Worse, this cycle is feeding on itself. The more solo PvP dies, the fewer solo PvPers there are. And the fewer solo PvPers there are, the harder it is to find someone to fight. And since you can't find someone to fight, you stop PvPing solo... etc. Dark I can't believe I am gonna say this, but I agree with you 100%. And to add to that, the worst fear people have is that they will get ganked by "teh blob". Alliances in 0.0 started to order pilots not to travel solo due to the risk of getting ganked, and this has continued to spiral into not pvp'ing alone, now noone goes out in 0.0 alone (there are a few exceptions). Before anyone leaves a safespot they must have a gang they feel confident will not get ganked by a bigger gang!!!! Killboards, public humiliation of loss, dictors and large alliance mentality has meant that solo pvp is getting it hard and dry. Actually, I'll go further to say that the death of solo PvP, even though it might not be the direct fault of CCP in any way, is the biggest problem facing EVE today. A year or two you used to be able to go out and get a good fight, whether a cheap gank or an even match. Today, its all about blobbing, whether fighting one person with five or ten people with fifty. NPCers and miners won't die unless they're total newbies--they just warp to a POS or log. The only way to catch anyone is with a gatecamp... stop those and there won't be any solo combat left except newbies getting killed. This is probably why I don't PvP much anymore. I don't want to fly around in a 20-man gang for 3 hours to kill a couple T1 cruisers. I want to go out there alone or with a friend, and have some fun. -[23] Member- Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON!
Firane Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.06 01:35:00 - [10] Originally by: Christopher Multsanti Alliances in 0.0 started to order pilots not to travel solo due to the risk of getting ganked, and this has continued to spiral into not pvp'ing alone, now noone goes out in 0.0 alone (there are a few exceptions). Before anyone leaves a safespot they must have a gang they feel confident will not get ganked by a bigger gang!!!! Well, to be honest, we all got to move a little product from time to time. Not having a scout is just asking to get ganked. Theres still plenty of haulers that don't follow this simple rule though.

Old Geeza The Retirement Home	Posted - 2006.11.06 01:38:00 - [11] There are more people playing, hence more gangs and/or larger gangs. Back in "the old days" you had less people online, less people in corp/alliance which meant you had to go roaming for a fight, and you often met up with other people doing the same thing. The influx of players, combined with the attitude shift of the playerbase (i.e. if you lose a ship you fail at life), mixed with sky-high T2 ship prices means nobody wants to or is able to solo properly anymore. The only last bastian is low-sec piracy, but tbh I wouldn't mind the targets shooting back. Oh well, when Vagabonds cost 60m again I might start soloing. Until then I'm sticking to small gangs. _______________________________________ Sign the petition against jump queues!
Old Geeza The Retirement Home	Posted - 2006.11.06 01:40:00 - [12] Also, more people > player skill. You can run around in a big blob scoring kills with virtually no idea on how to fight properly. You'll notice those kind of gangs usually run for the hill when an experienced group of players come after them with half their numbers. _______________________________________ Sign the petition against jump queues!
Ernest Graefenberg Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.06 01:41:00 - [13] Edited by: Ernest Graefenberg on 06/11/2006 01:42:23 Huginns and EW = the near-death of solo PvP (or more accurately : The strength of ECM / Damps and Webifiers). Small gangs are obviously far from dead, but you're more or less stuck with at least needing a tackler, a sufficient damage dealer and some EW support to make sure you don't get buttraped by their EW. That's 3 people, or 2 if you squeeze it in a bit creatively. While that's not so bad, it's still epidemic and going to only get worse as more people catch on. 50% extra HP on everything ain't helpin' either :(
Christopher Multsanti Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.11.06 01:45:00 - [14] Originally by: Old Geeza There are more people playing, hence more gangs and/or larger gangs. Back in "the old days" you had less people online, less people in corp/alliance which meant you had to go roaming for a fight, and you often met up with other people doing the same thing. The influx of players, combined with the attitude shift of the playerbase (i.e. if you lose a ship you fail at life), mixed with sky-high T2 ship prices means nobody wants to or is able to solo properly anymore. The only last bastian is low-sec piracy, but tbh I wouldn't mind the targets shooting back. Oh well, when Vagabonds cost 60m again I might start soloing. Until then I'm sticking to small gangs. I do agree with you to an extent, T2 prices have played a large part and so has the 0.0 population increase. The thing is the only way to get good fights in small gangs (and by good fights I don't mean npc'ers ganks or gate camp shuttle kills) is to be a in a very skilled small gang willing and capable to take on a larger force, because 95% of people will only engage you if they have the advantadge. [ER Public Relations Officer] [Is main activated, check, Post!]
Ozzie Asrail FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.06 01:49:00 - [15] Sicne I think one of my previous posts sparked this I guess i should respond I love my solo pvp, try and do it any time I can. It's getting less and less that people simply want a good fight (logging\blobbing\camping instead) but it's still out there. I definatly didn't imply that solo PvP should not be possible. On the other hand EVE is not a solo game, asking for things to be changed simply because x ship can't solo the same as y ship and you don't want to use y ship misses the whole point of having differnt ships. -----
Christopher Multsanti Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.11.06 01:55:00 - [16] Originally by: Ozzie Asrail On the other hand EVE is not a solo game, asking for things to be changed simply because x ship can't solo the same as y ship and you don't want to use y ship misses the whole point of having differnt ships. While I did link your post, your not the only one I have heard say this, I am sure Blacklight also said it once iirc. The point is mute though as I can change a couple of words in your sentence and make my argument for me. Originally by: Ozzie Asrail On the other hand EVE is not a fleet battle game, asking for things to be changed simply because x ship can't perform well in a fleet battle the same as y ship and you don't want to use y ship misses the whole point of having differnt ships. You see? [ER Public Relations Officer] [Is main activated, check, Post!]
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.11.06 02:04:00 - [17] Edited by: Plutoinum on 06/11/2006 02:06:20 I think, it should be an option. Multi-player doesn't necessarily mean that you need to work with other people, you can also work against them On the other hand we don't need one man t2 solo-pwn mobiles that can do almost everything, that a small gang of cheaper t1 ships maybe can do. Imho the focus is on gang and fleet combat, but if we always needed some help to pin someone down, I'd see that as really negative. We didn't need that in the past and we don't need that now. Well, with the stabs nerf it gets easier and that good :)
Ozzie Asrail FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.06 02:05:00 - [18] Originally by: Christopher Multsanti Originally by: Ozzie Asrail On the other hand EVE is not a solo game, asking for things to be changed simply because x ship can't solo the same as y ship and you don't want to use y ship misses the whole point of having differnt ships. While I did link your post, your not the only one I have heard say this, I am sure Blacklight also said it once iirc. The point is mute though as I can change a couple of words in your sentence and make my argument for me. Originally by: Ozzie Asrail On the other hand EVE is not a fleet battle game, asking for things to be changed simply because x ship can't perform well in a fleet battle the same as y ship and you don't want to use y ship misses the whole point of having differnt ships. You see? ok now i'm confused. What does changing my quote there have anything to do with the topic?? -----
JForce The Arrow Project The ARR0W Project	Posted - 2006.11.06 02:08:00 - [19] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 06/11/2006 01:37:31 Originally by: Christopher Multsanti Originally by: Dark Shikari I agree. Unfortunately, from what I've seen, solo PvP is pretty much dead. If I go solo into enemy space, their mining ops and/or NPCers will simply log the instant I enter local. If I try to find a fight with a PvPer, I will get a blob of 15 ships jump on me the instant I aggress. Worse, this cycle is feeding on itself. The more solo PvP dies, the fewer solo PvPers there are. And the fewer solo PvPers there are, the harder it is to find someone to fight. And since you can't find someone to fight, you stop PvPing solo... etc. Dark I can't believe I am gonna say this, but I agree with you 100%. And to add to that, the worst fear people have is that they will get ganked by "teh blob". Alliances in 0.0 started to order pilots not to travel solo due to the risk of getting ganked, and this has continued to spiral into not pvp'ing alone, now noone goes out in 0.0 alone (there are a few exceptions). Before anyone leaves a safespot they must have a gang they feel confident will not get ganked by a bigger gang!!!! Killboards, public humiliation of loss, dictors and large alliance mentality has meant that solo pvp is getting it hard and dry. Actually, I'll go further to say that the death of solo PvP, even though it might not be the direct fault of CCP in any way, is the biggest problem facing EVE today. A year or two you used to be able to go out and get a good fight, whether a cheap gank or an even match. Today, its all about blobbing, whether fighting one person with five or ten people with fifty. NPCers and miners won't die unless they're total newbies--they just warp to a POS or log. The only way to catch anyone is with a gatecamp... stop those and there won't be any solo combat left except newbies getting killed. You keep repeating the part about the miners and NPCers warping to SS or POS etc...what do you expect them to do? And taking on a Covetor 1 on 1 isn't looking for a fight, it's ganking. I don't see how you can blame people who SS when you come in for running if they're in a hauler? Should they stop and face you? Or should it be nearly impossible for them to get away from you? Maybe their ships should be slow? Unable to align to warp very quickly? How about paper thin? Oh hang on they are... The beauty of Eve is that people are smart, and have adapted to you running around by yourself killing them. Now they travel with friends. Good for them. Now the onus is on you to change YOUR tactics. They've changed theirs. About Invention: From what we've seen on the test server, Invention is just a bad joke by CCP to try and stop our whining. With the current RP
Christopher Multsanti Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.11.06 02:08:00 - [20] Originally by: Ozzie Asrail Originally by: Christopher Multsanti Originally by: Ozzie Asrail On the other hand EVE is not a solo game, asking for things to be changed simply because x ship can't solo the same as y ship and you don't want to use y ship misses the whole point of having differnt ships. While I did link your post, your not the only one I have heard say this, I am sure Blacklight also said it once iirc. The point is mute though as I can change a couple of words in your sentence and make my argument for me. Originally by: Ozzie Asrail On the other hand EVE is not a fleet battle game, asking for things to be changed simply because x ship can't perform well in a fleet battle the same as y ship and you don't want to use y ship misses the whole point of having differnt ships. You see? ok now i'm confused. What does changing my quote there have anything to do with the topic?? The combination of player and CCP mentatlity of saying that eve is not a solo game, to eve is a large fleet pvp game is wrong oh so very wrong. [ER Public Relations Officer] [Is main activated, check, Post!]

Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.11.06 02:10:00 - [21] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 06/11/2006 02:10:08 Originally by: JForce You keep repeating the part about the miners and NPCers warping to SS or POS etc...what do you expect them to do? And taking on a Covetor 1 on 1 isn't looking for a fight, it's ganking. I don't see how you can blame people who SS when you come in for running if they're in a hauler? Should they stop and face you? Or should it be nearly impossible for them to get away from you? Maybe their ships should be slow? Unable to align to warp very quickly? How about paper thin? Oh hang on they are... The beauty of Eve is that people are smart, and have adapted to you running around by yourself killing them. Now they travel with friends. Good for them. Now the onus is on you to change YOUR tactics. They've changed theirs. You're answering something I didn't say. Think about this for a second. The reason solo PvPers exist, mainly, is to gank the enemy's solo ships. The primary purpose of solo PvP is to gank NPCers and miners. Solo PvPers also exist, of course, to kill the enemy's solo PvPers, right? Now, miners and NPCers are smart enough to all warp to a POS. Suddenly, solo PvPers have no target anymore but each other. This contributes to them dying out. Its not a bad thing, nor is it unexpected, but it has unfortunate consequences. Anyone who thinks that all EVE PvP should be in blobs should be forced to pay me 100 million ISK for every time they say so. -[23] Member- Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON!
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.11.06 02:20:00 - [22] Edited by: Plutoinum on 06/11/2006 02:25:31 Originally by: Dark Shikari Now, miners and NPCers are smart enough to all warp to a POS. Suddenly, solo PvPers have no target anymore but each other. This contributes to them dying out. If almost all ships warp out and escape in time and it's a no brainer, then the 'detect enemy and run away' mechanism needs a nerf. Then the balance needs to be shifted to lead to more fighting and give an incentive to fit combat setups and protect your mates instead of making the run-away-method the 100% idiot-safe choice. ( Or in other words, 0.0 pvp is not to be 100% consentual, also not for solo-carebears. Some percentage of them needs to bite the dust each day, then there is still risk and it's balanced. )
DefJam101 Gallente Praxiteles Inc. E N I G M A	Posted - 2006.11.06 02:20:00 - [23] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 06/11/2006 01:32:48 I agree. Unfortunately, from what I've seen, solo PvP is pretty much dead. If I go solo into enemy space, their mining ops and/or NPCers will simply log or warp to POS the instant I enter local. If I try to find a fight with a PvPer, I will get a blob of 15 ships jump on me the instant I aggress. Worse, this cycle is feeding on itself. The more solo PvP dies, the fewer solo PvPers there are. And the fewer solo PvPers there are, the harder it is to find someone to fight. And since you can't find someone to fight, you stop PvPing solo... etc. Correct me if you have evidence to the contrary, but these days all I see going on are three categories of combat: 1. Large fleets fighting each other. 2. Medium sized gangs running away from larger medium sized gangs, and trying to camp gates or find smaller medium sized gangs to kill. 3. Small gank squads with specialty ships like the Rook designed to be invincible against solo PvPers and smaller gangs. Wtf DS. Every time you post everything you say is so amazingly true and correct, what the hell is your problem? Stop making sense, its a GAME, jesus I'm tired of you being fair and nice to everyone, its really getting old. Why can't you just flame people and insult them, you stupid greifing noob, oh and when your typing a response to this don't hit your keys too loud, you might wake up the employees of the business you own. ***
Ozzie Asrail FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.06 02:22:00 - [24] EVE is a mmo. It's not exclusivly a solo game, it's not exclusivly a fleet game, or a industrial game, or a trade game. Since it spans a huge amount of playstyles simply demanding "ballance" because you can't beat a certain ship in a 1v1 does not work. If that same post had been asking to have cruise missles boosted 1000x speed so they cold be used in fleet i'd have also said no because it's not exclusibly about fleet battls either. No-where in any of my posts did I say anything about noone being alowed to solo. And no-where did I even mention fleet. YOU added those in. tbh I've spend a week doing fleet crap and 3am pos takdowns and i'm pretty ****ed off with it. I'd much prefer it came down to PvP skill more than who's better at fielding the most t2 battleships and better at bookmark bombing the enemy dread fleet. -----
NightmareX Caldari MAFIA Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.06 02:29:00 - [25] Edited by: NightmareX on 06/11/2006 02:30:20 OMG, while you are on it, just remove PVP totaly from the game
Christopher Multsanti Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.11.06 02:32:00 - [26] Originally by: Ozzie Asrail EVE is a mmo. It's not exclusivly a solo game, it's not exclusivly a fleet game, or a industrial game, or a trade game. Since it spans a huge amount of playstyles simply demanding "ballance" because you can't beat a certain ship in a 1v1 does not work. If that same post had been asking to have cruise missles boosted 1000x speed so they cold be used in fleet i'd have also said no because it's not exclusibly about fleet battls either. No-where in any of my posts did I say anything about noone being alowed to solo. And no-where did I even mention fleet. YOU added those in. tbh I've spend a week doing fleet crap and 3am pos takdowns and i'm pretty ****ed off with it. I'd much prefer it came down to PvP skill more than who's better at fielding the most t2 battleships and better at bookmark bombing the enemy dread fleet. I added those in because this topic was not about you, it was about the general mentality of people within Eve that is killing solo pvp. I quoted you because youwere the most recent person I have seen saying it and simply saying Eve is not a solo game is not a good enough argument, your above post was much better. [ER Public Relations Officer] [Is main activated, check, Post!]
Captain Hudson Caldari Bravehearts Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.06 03:14:00 - [27] Edited by: Captain Hudson on 06/11/2006 03:15:03 Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 06/11/2006 01:32:48 I agree. Unfortunately, from what I've seen, solo PvP is pretty much dead. If I go solo into enemy space, their mining ops and/or NPCers will simply log or warp to POS the instant I enter local. If I try to find a fight with a PvPer, I will get a blob of 15 ships jump on me the instant I aggress. Worse, this cycle is feeding on itself. The more solo PvP dies, the fewer solo PvPers there are. And the fewer solo PvPers there are, the harder it is to find someone to fight. And since you can't find someone to fight, you stop PvPing solo... etc. Correct me if you have evidence to the contrary, but these days all I see going on are three categories of combat: 1. Large fleets fighting each other. 2. Medium sized gangs running away from larger medium sized gangs, and trying to camp gates or find smaller medium sized gangs to kill. 3. Small gank squads with specialty ships like the Rook designed to be invincible against solo PvPers and smaller gangs. i agree ]
Godar Marak Amarr Return Of Red Dawn	Posted - 2006.11.06 06:43:00 - [28] Edited by: Godar Marak on 06/11/2006 06:43:55 Originally by: Ozzie Asrail On the other hand EVE is not a solo game, asking for things to be changed simply because x ship can't solo the same as y ship and you don't want to use y ship misses the whole point of having differnt ships. Eh? Just because it takes the effort of an alliance to build the biggest ships in the game, or hold conquerable space doesnt mean its not a solo game. And while you are on the subject of x vs y. There is no x vs y anymore, with the changes in RMR and the upcoming changes in kali its more like x,y vs y,x. The difference between x and y is decreasing for every patch there is it seams -------------------- \0/\0/\0/\0/\0/ Cant we all just get along? Wheres EVE heading?
Tasty Burger	Posted - 2006.11.06 06:47:00 - [29] Not only is solo already dying, but its going to completely kick the bucket after kali because you will not be able to kill anything fast enough before either the person can jump/dock, or you get jumped by his gangmates who were 10 jumps away. Same goes for small group combat. - It's great being Minmatar, ain't it?
Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2006.11.06 07:36:00 - [30] Oh boohoo. I'm enjoying my solo PvP very much, thank you. Sometimes it's 2vs1 or 1vs2 but it's just life. You just have to find right place and right tools to engage PvP. And even in hisec, it's fun "It's great being Amarr, ain't it?Ö" PERVS \o/



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