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Christopher Multsanti Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.11.06 01:18:00 - [1] Edited by: Christopher Multsanti on 06/11/2006 01:20:13 A few people have said this a few times in different areas on these and forums in the past, and it gets me worked up every time. My opinion of the argument that people should not solo pvp is simple.....it's utter tosh. Discuss. [ER Public Relations Officer] [Is main activated, check, Post!]
Andargor theWise Disbelievers of Fate The SUdden Death Squad	Posted - 2006.11.06 01:22:00 - [2] lol? - Got grief?
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.11.06 01:23:00 - [3] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 06/11/2006 01:32:48 I agree. Unfortunately, from what I've seen, solo PvP is pretty much dead. If I go solo into enemy space, their mining ops and/or NPCers will simply log or warp to POS the instant I enter local. If I try to find a fight with a PvPer, I will get a blob of 15 ships jump on me the instant I aggress. Worse, this cycle is feeding on itself. The more solo PvP dies, the fewer solo PvPers there are. And the fewer solo PvPers there are, the harder it is to find someone to fight. And since you can't find someone to fight, you stop PvPing solo... etc. Correct me if you have evidence to the contrary, but these days all I see going on are three categories of combat: 1. Large fleets fighting each other. 2. Medium sized gangs running away from larger medium sized gangs, and trying to camp gates or find smaller medium sized gangs to kill. 3. Small gank squads with specialty ships like the Rook designed to be invincible against solo PvPers and smaller gangs. -[23] Member- Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON!
Firane Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.06 01:25:00 - [4] Dark stop making so much sense.
Vazion	Posted - 2006.11.06 01:29:00 - [5] Originally by: Christopher Multsanti Edited by: Christopher Multsanti on 06/11/2006 01:20:13 A few people have said this a few times in different areas on these and forums in the past, and it gets me worked up every time. My opinion of the argument that people should not solo pvp is simple.....it's utter tosh. Discuss. Obligatory: If you'd like to pay for my account then I will not do any solo PvP. If I continue to pay for my account..I will play however I want.
Deriger	Posted - 2006.11.06 01:31:00 - [6] Whoever says that needs to be summarily executed.
Christopher Multsanti Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.11.06 01:32:00 - [7] Originally by: Dark Shikari I agree. Unfortunately, from what I've seen, solo PvP is pretty much dead. If I go solo into enemy space, their mining ops and/or NPCers will simply log the instant I enter local. If I try to find a fight with a PvPer, I will get a blob of 15 ships jump on me the instant I aggress. Worse, this cycle is feeding on itself. The more solo PvP dies, the fewer solo PvPers there are. And the fewer solo PvPers there are, the harder it is to find someone to fight. And since you can't find someone to fight, you stop PvPing solo... etc. Dark I can't believe I am gonna say this, but I agree with you 100%. And to add to that, the worst fear people have is that they will get ganked by "teh blob". Alliances in 0.0 started to order pilots not to travel solo due to the risk of getting ganked, and this has continued to spiral into not pvp'ing alone, now noone goes out in 0.0 alone (there are a few exceptions). Before anyone leaves a safespot they must have a gang they feel confident will not get ganked by a bigger gang!!!! Killboards, public humiliation of loss, dictors and large alliance mentality has meant that solo pvp is getting it hard and dry. [ER Public Relations Officer] [Is main activated, check, Post!]
Christopher Multsanti Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.11.06 01:34:00 - [8] Originally by: Deriger Whoever says that needs to be summarily executed. Fire at will. [ER Public Relations Officer] [Is main activated, check, Post!]
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.11.06 01:35:00 - [9] Originally by: Christopher Multsanti Originally by: Dark Shikari I agree. Unfortunately, from what I've seen, solo PvP is pretty much dead. If I go solo into enemy space, their mining ops and/or NPCers will simply log the instant I enter local. If I try to find a fight with a PvPer, I will get a blob of 15 ships jump on me the instant I aggress. Worse, this cycle is feeding on itself. The more solo PvP dies, the fewer solo PvPers there are. And the fewer solo PvPers there are, the harder it is to find someone to fight. And since you can't find someone to fight, you stop PvPing solo... etc. Dark I can't believe I am gonna say this, but I agree with you 100%. And to add to that, the worst fear people have is that they will get ganked by "teh blob". Alliances in 0.0 started to order pilots not to travel solo due to the risk of getting ganked, and this has continued to spiral into not pvp'ing alone, now noone goes out in 0.0 alone (there are a few exceptions). Before anyone leaves a safespot they must have a gang they feel confident will not get ganked by a bigger gang!!!! Killboards, public humiliation of loss, dictors and large alliance mentality has meant that solo pvp is getting it hard and dry. Actually, I'll go further to say that the death of solo PvP, even though it might not be the direct fault of CCP in any way, is the biggest problem facing EVE today. A year or two you used to be able to go out and get a good fight, whether a cheap gank or an even match. Today, its all about blobbing, whether fighting one person with five or ten people with fifty. NPCers and miners won't die unless they're total newbies--they just warp to a POS or log. The only way to catch anyone is with a gatecamp... stop those and there won't be any solo combat left except newbies getting killed. This is probably why I don't PvP much anymore. I don't want to fly around in a 20-man gang for 3 hours to kill a couple T1 cruisers. I want to go out there alone or with a friend, and have some fun. -[23] Member- Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON!
Firane Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.06 01:35:00 - [10] Originally by: Christopher Multsanti Alliances in 0.0 started to order pilots not to travel solo due to the risk of getting ganked, and this has continued to spiral into not pvp'ing alone, now noone goes out in 0.0 alone (there are a few exceptions). Before anyone leaves a safespot they must have a gang they feel confident will not get ganked by a bigger gang!!!! Well, to be honest, we all got to move a little product from time to time. Not having a scout is just asking to get ganked. Theres still plenty of haulers that don't follow this simple rule though.

Old Geeza The Retirement Home	Posted - 2006.11.06 01:38:00 - [11] There are more people playing, hence more gangs and/or larger gangs. Back in "the old days" you had less people online, less people in corp/alliance which meant you had to go roaming for a fight, and you often met up with other people doing the same thing. The influx of players, combined with the attitude shift of the playerbase (i.e. if you lose a ship you fail at life), mixed with sky-high T2 ship prices means nobody wants to or is able to solo properly anymore. The only last bastian is low-sec piracy, but tbh I wouldn't mind the targets shooting back. Oh well, when Vagabonds cost 60m again I might start soloing. Until then I'm sticking to small gangs. _______________________________________ Sign the petition against jump queues!
Old Geeza The Retirement Home	Posted - 2006.11.06 01:40:00 - [12] Also, more people > player skill. You can run around in a big blob scoring kills with virtually no idea on how to fight properly. You'll notice those kind of gangs usually run for the hill when an experienced group of players come after them with half their numbers. _______________________________________ Sign the petition against jump queues!
Ernest Graefenberg Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.06 01:41:00 - [13] Edited by: Ernest Graefenberg on 06/11/2006 01:42:23 Huginns and EW = the near-death of solo PvP (or more accurately : The strength of ECM / Damps and Webifiers). Small gangs are obviously far from dead, but you're more or less stuck with at least needing a tackler, a sufficient damage dealer and some EW support to make sure you don't get buttraped by their EW. That's 3 people, or 2 if you squeeze it in a bit creatively. While that's not so bad, it's still epidemic and going to only get worse as more people catch on. 50% extra HP on everything ain't helpin' either :(
Christopher Multsanti Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.11.06 01:45:00 - [14] Originally by: Old Geeza There are more people playing, hence more gangs and/or larger gangs. Back in "the old days" you had less people online, less people in corp/alliance which meant you had to go roaming for a fight, and you often met up with other people doing the same thing. The influx of players, combined with the attitude shift of the playerbase (i.e. if you lose a ship you fail at life), mixed with sky-high T2 ship prices means nobody wants to or is able to solo properly anymore. The only last bastian is low-sec piracy, but tbh I wouldn't mind the targets shooting back. Oh well, when Vagabonds cost 60m again I might start soloing. Until then I'm sticking to small gangs. I do agree with you to an extent, T2 prices have played a large part and so has the 0.0 population increase. The thing is the only way to get good fights in small gangs (and by good fights I don't mean npc'ers ganks or gate camp shuttle kills) is to be a in a very skilled small gang willing and capable to take on a larger force, because 95% of people will only engage you if they have the advantadge. [ER Public Relations Officer] [Is main activated, check, Post!]
Ozzie Asrail FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.06 01:49:00 - [15] Sicne I think one of my previous posts sparked this I guess i should respond I love my solo pvp, try and do it any time I can. It's getting less and less that people simply want a good fight (logging\blobbing\camping instead) but it's still out there. I definatly didn't imply that solo PvP should not be possible. On the other hand EVE is not a solo game, asking for things to be changed simply because x ship can't solo the same as y ship and you don't want to use y ship misses the whole point of having differnt ships. -----
Christopher Multsanti Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.11.06 01:55:00 - [16] Originally by: Ozzie Asrail On the other hand EVE is not a solo game, asking for things to be changed simply because x ship can't solo the same as y ship and you don't want to use y ship misses the whole point of having differnt ships. While I did link your post, your not the only one I have heard say this, I am sure Blacklight also said it once iirc. The point is mute though as I can change a couple of words in your sentence and make my argument for me. Originally by: Ozzie Asrail On the other hand EVE is not a fleet battle game, asking for things to be changed simply because x ship can't perform well in a fleet battle the same as y ship and you don't want to use y ship misses the whole point of having differnt ships. You see? [ER Public Relations Officer] [Is main activated, check, Post!]
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.11.06 02:04:00 - [17] Edited by: Plutoinum on 06/11/2006 02:06:20 I think, it should be an option. Multi-player doesn't necessarily mean that you need to work with other people, you can also work against them On the other hand we don't need one man t2 solo-pwn mobiles that can do almost everything, that a small gang of cheaper t1 ships maybe can do. Imho the focus is on gang and fleet combat, but if we always needed some help to pin someone down, I'd see that as really negative. We didn't need that in the past and we don't need that now. Well, with the stabs nerf it gets easier and that good :)
Ozzie Asrail FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.06 02:05:00 - [18] Originally by: Christopher Multsanti Originally by: Ozzie Asrail On the other hand EVE is not a solo game, asking for things to be changed simply because x ship can't solo the same as y ship and you don't want to use y ship misses the whole point of having differnt ships. While I did link your post, your not the only one I have heard say this, I am sure Blacklight also said it once iirc. The point is mute though as I can change a couple of words in your sentence and make my argument for me. Originally by: Ozzie Asrail On the other hand EVE is not a fleet battle game, asking for things to be changed simply because x ship can't perform well in a fleet battle the same as y ship and you don't want to use y ship misses the whole point of having differnt ships. You see? ok now i'm confused. What does changing my quote there have anything to do with the topic?? -----
JForce The Arrow Project The ARR0W Project	Posted - 2006.11.06 02:08:00 - [19] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 06/11/2006 01:37:31 Originally by: Christopher Multsanti Originally by: Dark Shikari I agree. Unfortunately, from what I've seen, solo PvP is pretty much dead. If I go solo into enemy space, their mining ops and/or NPCers will simply log the instant I enter local. If I try to find a fight with a PvPer, I will get a blob of 15 ships jump on me the instant I aggress. Worse, this cycle is feeding on itself. The more solo PvP dies, the fewer solo PvPers there are. And the fewer solo PvPers there are, the harder it is to find someone to fight. And since you can't find someone to fight, you stop PvPing solo... etc. Dark I can't believe I am gonna say this, but I agree with you 100%. And to add to that, the worst fear people have is that they will get ganked by "teh blob". Alliances in 0.0 started to order pilots not to travel solo due to the risk of getting ganked, and this has continued to spiral into not pvp'ing alone, now noone goes out in 0.0 alone (there are a few exceptions). Before anyone leaves a safespot they must have a gang they feel confident will not get ganked by a bigger gang!!!! Killboards, public humiliation of loss, dictors and large alliance mentality has meant that solo pvp is getting it hard and dry. Actually, I'll go further to say that the death of solo PvP, even though it might not be the direct fault of CCP in any way, is the biggest problem facing EVE today. A year or two you used to be able to go out and get a good fight, whether a cheap gank or an even match. Today, its all about blobbing, whether fighting one person with five or ten people with fifty. NPCers and miners won't die unless they're total newbies--they just warp to a POS or log. The only way to catch anyone is with a gatecamp... stop those and there won't be any solo combat left except newbies getting killed. You keep repeating the part about the miners and NPCers warping to SS or POS etc...what do you expect them to do? And taking on a Covetor 1 on 1 isn't looking for a fight, it's ganking. I don't see how you can blame people who SS when you come in for running if they're in a hauler? Should they stop and face you? Or should it be nearly impossible for them to get away from you? Maybe their ships should be slow? Unable to align to warp very quickly? How about paper thin? Oh hang on they are... The beauty of Eve is that people are smart, and have adapted to you running around by yourself killing them. Now they travel with friends. Good for them. Now the onus is on you to change YOUR tactics. They've changed theirs. About Invention: From what we've seen on the test server, Invention is just a bad joke by CCP to try and stop our whining. With the current RP
Christopher Multsanti Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.11.06 02:08:00 - [20] Originally by: Ozzie Asrail Originally by: Christopher Multsanti Originally by: Ozzie Asrail On the other hand EVE is not a solo game, asking for things to be changed simply because x ship can't solo the same as y ship and you don't want to use y ship misses the whole point of having differnt ships. While I did link your post, your not the only one I have heard say this, I am sure Blacklight also said it once iirc. The point is mute though as I can change a couple of words in your sentence and make my argument for me. Originally by: Ozzie Asrail On the other hand EVE is not a fleet battle game, asking for things to be changed simply because x ship can't perform well in a fleet battle the same as y ship and you don't want to use y ship misses the whole point of having differnt ships. You see? ok now i'm confused. What does changing my quote there have anything to do with the topic?? The combination of player and CCP mentatlity of saying that eve is not a solo game, to eve is a large fleet pvp game is wrong oh so very wrong. [ER Public Relations Officer] [Is main activated, check, Post!]

Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.11.06 02:10:00 - [21] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 06/11/2006 02:10:08 Originally by: JForce You keep repeating the part about the miners and NPCers warping to SS or POS etc...what do you expect them to do? And taking on a Covetor 1 on 1 isn't looking for a fight, it's ganking. I don't see how you can blame people who SS when you come in for running if they're in a hauler? Should they stop and face you? Or should it be nearly impossible for them to get away from you? Maybe their ships should be slow? Unable to align to warp very quickly? How about paper thin? Oh hang on they are... The beauty of Eve is that people are smart, and have adapted to you running around by yourself killing them. Now they travel with friends. Good for them. Now the onus is on you to change YOUR tactics. They've changed theirs. You're answering something I didn't say. Think about this for a second. The reason solo PvPers exist, mainly, is to gank the enemy's solo ships. The primary purpose of solo PvP is to gank NPCers and miners. Solo PvPers also exist, of course, to kill the enemy's solo PvPers, right? Now, miners and NPCers are smart enough to all warp to a POS. Suddenly, solo PvPers have no target anymore but each other. This contributes to them dying out. Its not a bad thing, nor is it unexpected, but it has unfortunate consequences. Anyone who thinks that all EVE PvP should be in blobs should be forced to pay me 100 million ISK for every time they say so. -[23] Member- Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON!
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.11.06 02:20:00 - [22] Edited by: Plutoinum on 06/11/2006 02:25:31 Originally by: Dark Shikari Now, miners and NPCers are smart enough to all warp to a POS. Suddenly, solo PvPers have no target anymore but each other. This contributes to them dying out. If almost all ships warp out and escape in time and it's a no brainer, then the 'detect enemy and run away' mechanism needs a nerf. Then the balance needs to be shifted to lead to more fighting and give an incentive to fit combat setups and protect your mates instead of making the run-away-method the 100% idiot-safe choice. ( Or in other words, 0.0 pvp is not to be 100% consentual, also not for solo-carebears. Some percentage of them needs to bite the dust each day, then there is still risk and it's balanced. )
DefJam101 Gallente Praxiteles Inc. E N I G M A	Posted - 2006.11.06 02:20:00 - [23] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 06/11/2006 01:32:48 I agree. Unfortunately, from what I've seen, solo PvP is pretty much dead. If I go solo into enemy space, their mining ops and/or NPCers will simply log or warp to POS the instant I enter local. If I try to find a fight with a PvPer, I will get a blob of 15 ships jump on me the instant I aggress. Worse, this cycle is feeding on itself. The more solo PvP dies, the fewer solo PvPers there are. And the fewer solo PvPers there are, the harder it is to find someone to fight. And since you can't find someone to fight, you stop PvPing solo... etc. Correct me if you have evidence to the contrary, but these days all I see going on are three categories of combat: 1. Large fleets fighting each other. 2. Medium sized gangs running away from larger medium sized gangs, and trying to camp gates or find smaller medium sized gangs to kill. 3. Small gank squads with specialty ships like the Rook designed to be invincible against solo PvPers and smaller gangs. Wtf DS. Every time you post everything you say is so amazingly true and correct, what the hell is your problem? Stop making sense, its a GAME, jesus I'm tired of you being fair and nice to everyone, its really getting old. Why can't you just flame people and insult them, you stupid greifing noob, oh and when your typing a response to this don't hit your keys too loud, you might wake up the employees of the business you own. ***
Ozzie Asrail FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.06 02:22:00 - [24] EVE is a mmo. It's not exclusivly a solo game, it's not exclusivly a fleet game, or a industrial game, or a trade game. Since it spans a huge amount of playstyles simply demanding "ballance" because you can't beat a certain ship in a 1v1 does not work. If that same post had been asking to have cruise missles boosted 1000x speed so they cold be used in fleet i'd have also said no because it's not exclusibly about fleet battls either. No-where in any of my posts did I say anything about noone being alowed to solo. And no-where did I even mention fleet. YOU added those in. tbh I've spend a week doing fleet crap and 3am pos takdowns and i'm pretty ****ed off with it. I'd much prefer it came down to PvP skill more than who's better at fielding the most t2 battleships and better at bookmark bombing the enemy dread fleet. -----
NightmareX Caldari MAFIA Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.06 02:29:00 - [25] Edited by: NightmareX on 06/11/2006 02:30:20 OMG, while you are on it, just remove PVP totaly from the game
Christopher Multsanti Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.11.06 02:32:00 - [26] Originally by: Ozzie Asrail EVE is a mmo. It's not exclusivly a solo game, it's not exclusivly a fleet game, or a industrial game, or a trade game. Since it spans a huge amount of playstyles simply demanding "ballance" because you can't beat a certain ship in a 1v1 does not work. If that same post had been asking to have cruise missles boosted 1000x speed so they cold be used in fleet i'd have also said no because it's not exclusibly about fleet battls either. No-where in any of my posts did I say anything about noone being alowed to solo. And no-where did I even mention fleet. YOU added those in. tbh I've spend a week doing fleet crap and 3am pos takdowns and i'm pretty ****ed off with it. I'd much prefer it came down to PvP skill more than who's better at fielding the most t2 battleships and better at bookmark bombing the enemy dread fleet. I added those in because this topic was not about you, it was about the general mentality of people within Eve that is killing solo pvp. I quoted you because youwere the most recent person I have seen saying it and simply saying Eve is not a solo game is not a good enough argument, your above post was much better. [ER Public Relations Officer] [Is main activated, check, Post!]
Captain Hudson Caldari Bravehearts Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.06 03:14:00 - [27] Edited by: Captain Hudson on 06/11/2006 03:15:03 Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 06/11/2006 01:32:48 I agree. Unfortunately, from what I've seen, solo PvP is pretty much dead. If I go solo into enemy space, their mining ops and/or NPCers will simply log or warp to POS the instant I enter local. If I try to find a fight with a PvPer, I will get a blob of 15 ships jump on me the instant I aggress. Worse, this cycle is feeding on itself. The more solo PvP dies, the fewer solo PvPers there are. And the fewer solo PvPers there are, the harder it is to find someone to fight. And since you can't find someone to fight, you stop PvPing solo... etc. Correct me if you have evidence to the contrary, but these days all I see going on are three categories of combat: 1. Large fleets fighting each other. 2. Medium sized gangs running away from larger medium sized gangs, and trying to camp gates or find smaller medium sized gangs to kill. 3. Small gank squads with specialty ships like the Rook designed to be invincible against solo PvPers and smaller gangs. i agree ]
Godar Marak Amarr Return Of Red Dawn	Posted - 2006.11.06 06:43:00 - [28] Edited by: Godar Marak on 06/11/2006 06:43:55 Originally by: Ozzie Asrail On the other hand EVE is not a solo game, asking for things to be changed simply because x ship can't solo the same as y ship and you don't want to use y ship misses the whole point of having differnt ships. Eh? Just because it takes the effort of an alliance to build the biggest ships in the game, or hold conquerable space doesnt mean its not a solo game. And while you are on the subject of x vs y. There is no x vs y anymore, with the changes in RMR and the upcoming changes in kali its more like x,y vs y,x. The difference between x and y is decreasing for every patch there is it seams -------------------- \0/\0/\0/\0/\0/ Cant we all just get along? Wheres EVE heading?
Tasty Burger	Posted - 2006.11.06 06:47:00 - [29] Not only is solo already dying, but its going to completely kick the bucket after kali because you will not be able to kill anything fast enough before either the person can jump/dock, or you get jumped by his gangmates who were 10 jumps away. Same goes for small group combat. - It's great being Minmatar, ain't it?
Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2006.11.06 07:36:00 - [30] Oh boohoo. I'm enjoying my solo PvP very much, thank you. Sometimes it's 2vs1 or 1vs2 but it's just life. You just have to find right place and right tools to engage PvP. And even in hisec, it's fun "It's great being Amarr, ain't it?Ö" PERVS \o/

Mallikanth Minmatar	Posted - 2006.11.06 08:28:00 - [31] EvE is not a solo game? I spend most of my time flying solo and enjoy it too. It fits with my RL timescales and I enjoy the game as much as the next guy. Fleet / Corp ops have and can be done but no where near as many as some people. It the old saying Horses for courses. I enjoy Solo playing and solo PvP (even tho I'm crap at it I have fun!) Enjoy the game - however you play. The difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong, it usually turns out to be impossible
Siobhan Ni Gallente Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2006.11.06 08:34:00 - [32] Yes, it's not a solo game. But you can't beat the rush you get when you solo pwn somone while he's yelling for help in local and you manage to warp out as his ship pops and an angry blob warps in close by
Wild Rho Amarr Black Omega Security	Posted - 2006.11.06 08:51:00 - [33] Personally I think kill mails contributed to this. These days a good kill/death ratio seems to be more important than the results, never mind that it was 30 frigs vs a t1 cruiser etc so long as they have a pretty little kill mail on their board. I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it.
NestcePas	Posted - 2006.11.06 09:15:00 - [34] Quote: You can run around in a big blob scoring kills with virtually no idea on how to fight properly. And what are those skills, pray tell? Obviously you need to know how to fight, but isn't much of the outcome of a fight dependant on both ship's configs? On the skill levels of both participant? On the status of the ship)damaged while ratting)? On the disparity between ships(frig vs cruiser)? Also, if you think groupcombat requires no or less knowledge, go and join a groupcombat, and see how you fare with only solo-experience...
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.06 09:45:00 - [35] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 06/11/2006 09:47:19 You know, Eve is what you make of it. You cant say its not a solo game just because you dont play it that way. I think you more meant that the game shouldnt be balanced in a 1 vs 1 situation, which I kind of both agree and disagree with... Anyway, its alot more fun to roam around solo than in gank squads, because chances are that the numbers, ships and modules of either your group or the other group decides the outcome of the battle, even if the pilots are crap at pvp. So I dont know... maybe you guys that constantly fight in blobs havent tried solo? Its a lot of fun (if you can find someone decent to fight - thats hard sometimes). --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jouno Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2006.11.06 09:50:00 - [36] Solo pvp isnt not dead yet, its just harder more frustrating but in the end its still the most fun i have in this game. CCP aint making it easyer thats for sure with the huge hp boost and the 0km warp to gang member, thats utter crap now i dont even have the 5km to get out before my victims friends web my pretty little vaga :(
Rosa Noir	Posted - 2006.11.06 10:37:00 - [37] Guess what...you need to adapt..
Victor Valka Caldari Archon Industries	Posted - 2006.11.06 10:39:00 - [38] Originally by: Rosa Noir Guess what...you need to adapt.. The horror...
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.06 11:26:00 - [39] I see occasional solo PvPers. Not many though. More often there's 'more'. Especially in empire wars - there's a few empire wars that have been 'good fights' but many more that are cheap ganks. People don't like to lose I guess. I think it might actually be because of the almighty stab. Against a ship with a 'few' stabs fitted, you need to out number them to even have a chance of killing them. Especially if they have instas too. I'm not saying that _every_ solo PvPer are stabmonkeys, but a useful proportion are, which means if you want to catch them you'd better assume they're stabbed, and blob. Personally I find 'small gang' the most fun form of PvP. Solo's fairly good too, but 2-4 people is just great. I don't often find fights that size though.
Grimreaperr The Eternal Knights	Posted - 2006.11.06 11:40:00 - [40] Always someone trying to tell people how they must play eve, which is why I'm in a 2 man corp. I can do what I want whenever I want!!!!!!!!!

Old Geeza The Retirement Home	Posted - 2006.11.06 11:42:00 - [41] The Multiplayer part of EVE means you are playing with other people, not just against the computer. That's it. It doesn't secretly imply that you need to go around with 10 people to get anything done. When you are going around solo, you are still looking for fights WITH OTHER PLAYERS. Oh look, multiplayer. Sometimes you really don't want to load up TS/Vent, try and get a gang together and then lead them around ganking lone cruisers. I know some people who are fab solo players but couldn't lead a gang to save their lives. When they form of PVP becomes completely inviable they begin to quit as there is no enjoyment to be had from the game. Now, if you really want to look at it, running missions requires no interaction from any other players what so ever. How about we change that instead? Would people start *****ing? Mission runners are the worst for wanting to play EVE-Offline. How about you are forced to pair up with 3 completely random people for every mission you do? Next, what does ship balance have to do with this? There are plenty of ships who a very capable at skirmish and solo play, the problem is that you get blobbed to death before you get 2 shots off. Finally, you don't learn anything in PVP unless you've gone solo. Being in a gang and just blindly following the FC's orders doesn't teach you how to stay alive, the weaknesses and strengths of each ship, the possible setups you'll face, etc. If you get primaried you'll die within seconds, and if you don't then all you are doing is shooting people who aren't firing back at you. _______________________________________ Sign the petition against jump queues!
Tonkin Black Lance Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.11.06 11:44:00 - [42] solo pvp, i do it all the time to get my sec status to a resonable level. solo is good but i find it more fun competing with you mates on who getting the kill mail, or having a small 10 v10 where we all direct fire etc, more fun when with other peeps. Sig removed, you sig was too ubber to display and ccp had no choice but to nerf it - CCP(NERFBAT)
Old Geeza The Retirement Home	Posted - 2006.11.06 11:47:00 - [43] Originally by: NestcePas Quote: You can run around in a big blob scoring kills with virtually no idea on how to fight properly. And what are those skills, pray tell? Obviously you need to know how to fight, but isn't much of the outcome of a fight dependant on both ship's configs? On the skill levels of both participant? On the status of the ship)damaged while ratting)? On the disparity between ships(frig vs cruiser)? Also, if you think groupcombat requires no or less knowledge, go and join a groupcombat, and see how you fare with only solo-experience... I engage in group combat all the time thank you, usually fighting outnumbered and getting frustrated at larger gangs running away. Following orders in group combat doesn't make you knowledgable, it makes you a tool. When I'm not commanding I'm a tool too. The purpose of a tool is to do precicely what the wielder wants you to do. The moment you start questioning it or doing something else is when the gang begins to break down. How many people have you seen shooting random targets in a fleet battle because they think it'll be better than shooting the primary? Then they moan that the fleet lost the fight because they couldn't down targets quick enough. _______________________________________ Sign the petition against jump queues!
Redbad Minmatar Vengeance of the Fallen Imperium Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.06 12:30:00 - [44] Edited by: Redbad on 06/11/2006 12:30:21 Havent got any problems in finding targets, but you have to be prepared to take some risks and loose some ships when going 1v2 or even 1v3. Stop being a pirating carebear or become a rockkiller; and start shooting. Unfavorable odds doesnt mean you'll loose the fight for sure. Its PvP, this means you play against real people, wo are are by definition flawed. e.g Perhaps not paying attention, maybe panicking, sometimes even unable to find f1, f2, f3 ... People doing this stupid math before a fight always forget the human factor. Just make sure you know your ship, you know your buttons and keep you common sense and wits about.
Leighanne	Posted - 2006.11.06 13:25:00 - [45] Edited by: Leighanne on 06/11/2006 13:29:40 Even the PVPers don't want to PVP. For perfect example we had two known pirates jump into our system today to have a look round have a go at ganking out mining op. We of course responded by packing up the op and getting all the ore into the POS away from the Pirates and hopping in our combat gear (we're industrialists so our combat gear is pretty bad) They were in a Rupture and some small Assault frig of which I currently forget the name - the Gallente one with the three horns on it.) Anyways - we're now guarding our haulers while they sit in the belt with us waiting for the right moment to come - and then they just start trying to gank our haulers. Wtf ? there are other players there in ships ready to go and at least try and protect our assets and take them on and they only want to gank our crappy haulers FFS ... get some balls - we got some, and met you with our useless PVP skills. Anyways when we opened up on them they simply warp out then round and round and round the belts and safe spots till they get bored then pop back in the belt we were mining in, which we're still waiting in them for, and sit there just out or range waiting for us to do something. sigh Pirates are what are wrong with this game - pansy arse bugs who think they can pvp but don't (No offence to you proper pirates out there who are actually pretty cool people, but these pansy as low sec teenagers who won't even fight a couple of badly skilled crappy equipped industrialists and would rather grief us by warping in and out of the asteroid belt doing nothing then trying to kill us. Seriously. In the end our neighbours ended up having to camp the gates and every single belt along with multiple ships scanning surrounding areas to try and find these pests. Which resulted in one lucky pod kill cause the pirate was Stupid rather then anything else, and the other pirate logging off in system cause even in his tech II frig he was clearly too stupid to take out any of us - even any of us solo. sigh ... Stupid lame crappy low sec Pirateing skills is to blame for a large majority of the whines on these forums. That and you keep pointlessly killing unarmed noobie haulers resulting in them needing to bring massive gangs for the simplest of tasks anywhere not in 1.0 space. FFS ... Do something useful with your time rather then ganking the people who can't defend themselves and manufacture your ships and modules. Honestly ... get some balls. WCS stab nerf = good for us semi carebears means the pansy dirty rats can't run in their t2 fitted t2 ships and if they aggress us they can die - just as they would do to us in our pitiful t1 haulers trying to help out on a larger mining op. For shame, For Shame. NB This is not directed at the awesomely cool pirates I have met and talked to that are actually really cool people and not total ganking griefing teenagers with an E-peen too large to handle. I appreciate you guys because you give me more ships sales - you lose we sell to you - your victem loses we sell to them its all good =)
Redbad Minmatar Vengeance of the Fallen Imperium Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.06 15:44:00 - [46] Edited by: Redbad on 06/11/2006 15:45:01 Originally by: Leighanne Edited by: Leighanne on 06/11/2006 13:29:40 Even the PVPers don't want to PVP. For perfect example we had two known pirates jump into our system today to have a look round have a go at ganking out mining op. We of course responded by packing up the op and getting all the ore into the POS away from the Pirates and hopping in our combat gear (we're industrialists so our combat gear is pretty bad) They were in a Rupture and some small Assault frig of which I currently forget the name - the Gallente one with the three horns on it.) Anyways - we're now guarding our haulers while they sit in the belt with us waiting for the right moment to come - and then they just start trying to gank our haulers. Wtf ? there are other players there in ships ready to go and at least try and protect our assets and take them on and they only want to gank our crappy haulers FFS ... get some balls - we got some, and met you with our useless PVP skills. Anyways when we opened up on them they simply warp out then round and round and round the belts and safe spots till they get bored then pop back in the belt we were mining in, which we're still waiting in them for, and sit there just out or range waiting for us to do something. sigh Pirates are what are wrong with this game - pansy arse bugs who think they can pvp but don't (No offence to you proper pirates out there who are actually pretty cool people, but these pansy as low sec teenagers who won't even fight a couple of badly skilled crappy equipped industrialists and would rather grief us by warping in and out of the asteroid belt doing nothing then trying to kill us. Seriously. In the end our neighbours ended up having to camp the gates and every single belt along with multiple ships scanning surrounding areas to try and find these pests. Which resulted in one lucky pod kill cause the pirate was Stupid rather then anything else, and the other pirate logging off in system cause even in his tech II frig he was clearly too stupid to take out any of us - even any of us solo. sigh ... Stupid lame crappy low sec Pirateing skills is to blame for a large majority of the whines on these forums. That and you keep pointlessly killing unarmed noobie haulers resulting in them needing to bring massive gangs for the simplest of tasks anywhere not in 1.0 space. FFS ... Do something useful with your time rather then ganking the people who can't defend themselves and manufacture your ships and modules. Honestly ... get some balls. WCS stab nerf = good for us semi carebears means the pansy dirty rats can't run in their t2 fitted t2 ships and if they aggress us they can die - just as they would do to us in our pitiful t1 haulers trying to help out on a larger mining op. For shame, For Shame. NB This is not directed at the awesomely cool pirates I have met and talked to that are actually really cool people and not total ganking griefing teenagers with an E-peen too large to handle. I appreciate you guys because you give me more ships sales - you lose we sell to you - your victem loses we sell to them its all good =) See, this is what I meant! This guy, knowing he has useless PvP skills, rampaged into battle towards the pirates and got them scared. PvP is against real players with real emotions. And if the pirate had known Leighanne had crappy skills he might not have fled. PvP, there's always a human factor that can swing a battle into your advantage or to your disadvantage. Like this, every day, so many fights are not fought that could have been won easily! If you don't try it you will never know!
Kyguard Fire Mandrill Astrophobics	Posted - 2006.11.06 16:00:00 - [47] Solo pvp still exists, but it is hard to find it in areas where there are territorial or large-scale conflicts going on since there is always going to be a blob. .. and solo pvp ftw. === It's great being Amarr, aint it?(tm) [Insert badass sig to match ego here]
Christopher Multsanti Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.11.06 16:21:00 - [48] Originally by: Leighanne Anyways - we're now guarding our haulers while they sit in the belt with us waiting for the right moment to come - and then they just start trying to gank our haulers. Wtf ? there are other players there in ships ready to go and at least try and protect our assets and take them on and they only want to gank our crappy haulers FFS ... get some balls - we got some, and met you with our useless PVP skills. May I aks what sort of ships and numbers did you have protecting your haulers when the pirates came in and attacked them? [ER Public Relations Officer] [Is main activated, check, Post!]
Nev Clavain Wise Guys	Posted - 2006.11.06 16:45:00 - [49] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 06/11/2006 01:32:48 I agree. Unfortunately, from what I've seen, solo PvP is pretty much dead. If I go solo into enemy space, their mining ops and/or NPCers will simply log or warp to POS the instant I enter local. If I try to find a fight with a PvPer, I will get a blob of 15 ships jump on me the instant I aggress. Worse, this cycle is feeding on itself. The more solo PvP dies, the fewer solo PvPers there are. And the fewer solo PvPers there are, the harder it is to find someone to fight. And since you can't find someone to fight, you stop PvPing solo... etc. Correct me if you have evidence to the contrary, but these days all I see going on are three categories of combat: 1. Large fleets fighting each other. 2. Medium sized gangs running away from larger medium sized gangs, and trying to camp gates or find smaller medium sized gangs to kill. 3. Small gank squads with specialty ships like the Rook designed to be invincible against solo PvPers and smaller gangs. While what you are saying is certainly a phenomenon that exists, I'd also say there are plenty of solo pvpers out there. In my corp I can name several including myself who are quite happy to take a ship out solo and look for targets, and get kills doing it too. We operate in syndicate which is an environment condusive to this style of play though. Without NPC soveriegnty this kind of play would be significantly more difficult. Also I fly in small gangs often too, and am quite happy to try and take on a larger gang. Usually what this involves is taking the bait of a larger gang and waiting for them to arrive, and then making the best of the situation that ensues. This often results in death for me. Not a problem though because there are so many extremely effective T1 ships out there, which after insurance really cost nothing to replace. As long as I don't have to sit for 3 hours waiting for targets I am happy. If this involves me dying then so be it Sig removed. Please keep sigs to 400x120 pixels and 24000 bytes in size or less. -Kaemonn
DeadDuck Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.11.06 17:08:00 - [50] Yesterday I tried a solo ... even locked by 2 npc's and a sniping bs at 100 km I just couldnt resist to engage that little crow in my crusader ... I died fighting 3 crows, 2 npc's and the bs. I knew that I was going for a very risky fight but was prepared to face the odds... I wasnt prepared for the other 2 crows ... Was I dumb ? I tottaly agree, but sometimes I really miss a good old 1vs1, the kind of fights that makes your heart beat harder and your hands shake ... TBH I'm a bit tired of ganking . The last kill I was involved was a BC ... we were about 12 he was alone... it wasnt fun

Shamis Orzoz Sniggerdly	Posted - 2006.11.06 18:12:00 - [51] Nothing wrong with solo PvP. But you can't expect to do everything, and you can't complain when you get attacked by a group, because its NOT a solo game.
DuckM4n Vo	Posted - 2006.11.06 18:19:00 - [52] you are entitled to your opinion but please, stop posting stupid **** like this, let ppl play how ever they want
Zephyr Mallory Limberry Aegis GmbH	Posted - 2006.11.06 20:45:00 - [53] well.. PvP by it's very nature is impossible to do solo.. just sometimes everyone's on the other team. It's fun that way, sometimes. a single assassin or an army of goons. Both are viable tactics. The only thing that erks me in the forums really is all the constant rabble about how people think anyone who plays the game any different from themselves is by default wrong and could never possibly be right. any way the forum mods could just nuke the "everyone else's play style sucks because it's not mine" threads as soon as they appear? meh. shutting up. blarg.
Nicocat Caldari New Age Solutions	Posted - 2006.11.06 21:14:00 - [54] Gank squads suck, and I speak from both sides of the fence. Sigh, I can count the times I've had a good fight in EVE, without being ganked by a half-dozen enemies or without being in a 10-man gang, on one hand... ---------------------------- Please don't try to troll in your signature -Eldo([email protected]) I tried?
Kruel Blunt Force Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.06 22:09:00 - [55] I solo-pvp all the time. You just have to be more careful in picking fights. I do wish that there would be incentive enough for miners to go to lowsec and hire some escorts. Maybe increase barge hp so it's not insta-popped. I'd love to fight over a barge by having to deal with the escorts first. Such a thing isn't practical with the current state of eve however. If you fly a small ship as I do, you can't gate camp, so are limited to fighting other pirates on the prowl or finding the occasional non-stabbed belt NPCer.
Leighanne	Posted - 2006.11.06 22:43:00 - [56] Edited by: Leighanne on 06/11/2006 22:45:05 Re: Christopher Multsanti Question; We had a Megathron sitting in the belt guarding full time - one of the miners hopped into his Raven and went to help protect the haulers cleaning up the Op and I was aligned at the POS to the belt waiting for the call to warp in, in my Raven - for shock tactics purposes (perhaps they would get scared if someone warped in and fired cruise missiles at them?? - all of thesse fitted in tech I rat loot which we had found. So initially 3BS to 2 tech II fitted Tech II Ships. I don't think thats entirely unfair towards either side - specially since we all suck at PVP to begin with. To get them to leave the system when all our neighbours arrived to help ... there would have been ... 4 more people sitting on the gate + 3 running round scanning for the 2 pirates + the other 3 of us sitting in the belt waiting for the haulers to finish. So yes in the end we had a much much larger force and they have every right to run scared with their tails between their legs - but not for the first 20mins + before others arrived. I also think its sad that one or two Pirates can completely halt a simply small mining op and require this much force simply because they are in the system and can pop barges so fast before any security has time to respond - forcing us to hang up our barges and attempt security in badly fitted BS's. But what can ya do - you go to low sec you deal with this crap - hopefully they will get the idea we're not gonna lie down and take it and bugger off to find some other poor tech I hauler noobie industrialist trying to move their stuff somewhere to gank instead.
Kruel Blunt Force Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.06 23:01:00 - [57] Lol, a Rupture and Ishkur vs. 2 Ravens and a Megathron? No wonder those pirates didn't attack.
Ralara Caldari Reunited O X I D E	Posted - 2006.11.06 23:11:00 - [58] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 06/11/2006 01:37:31 Originally by: Christopher Multsanti Originally by: Dark Shikari I agree. Unfortunately, from what I've seen, solo PvP is pretty much dead. If I go solo into enemy space, their mining ops and/or NPCers will simply log the instant I enter local. If I try to find a fight with a PvPer, I will get a blob of 15 ships jump on me the instant I aggress. Worse, this cycle is feeding on itself. The more solo PvP dies, the fewer solo PvPers there are. And the fewer solo PvPers there are, the harder it is to find someone to fight. And since you can't find someone to fight, you stop PvPing solo... etc. Dark I can't believe I am gonna say this, but I agree with you 100%. And to add to that, the worst fear people have is that they will get ganked by "teh blob". Alliances in 0.0 started to order pilots not to travel solo due to the risk of getting ganked, and this has continued to spiral into not pvp'ing alone, now noone goes out in 0.0 alone (there are a few exceptions). Before anyone leaves a safespot they must have a gang they feel confident will not get ganked by a bigger gang!!!! Killboards, public humiliation of loss, dictors and large alliance mentality has meant that solo pvp is getting it hard and dry. Actually, I'll go further to say that the death of solo PvP, even though it might not be the direct fault of CCP in any way, is the biggest problem facing EVE today. A year or two you used to be able to go out and get a good fight, whether a cheap gank or an even match. Today, its all about blobbing, whether fighting one person with five or ten people with fifty. NPCers and miners won't die unless they're total newbies--they just warp to a POS or log. The only way to catch anyone is with a gatecamp... stop those and there won't be any solo combat left except newbies getting killed. This is probably why I don't PvP much anymore. I don't want to fly around in a 20-man gang for 3 hours to kill a couple T1 cruisers. I want to go out there alone or with a friend, and have some fun. The last time I went to solo PvP I had this great fight with a Raven. It was relatively evenly matched, but his shields gave way while my armor was still holding pretty well. Then an Arazu warped in... and an absolution... and a few inties... and then ten battleships... and a few rooks... No. I've had plenty of solo pvp and 2 on 2 pvp over the last 2 or 3 months (since I started pvping). Yes, sometimes a larger gang appears (and then I run cos ... well, 1 ship vs.. 4 or 5 is just suicide) but just 4 days ago I was in my raven doing some ratting and an Ishkur came along and tried to kill me. They didn't last long but it was one on one, and at their choosing. I've taken on people one on one as well. I don't like big fleet engagements. My poor x300 can't handle it ;) It does exist. And yes, this was in the BELTS. Anyone who says that belt pvp (or any pvp other than at station exits / gatecamps) doesnt exist any more is plain wrong and not looking in the right places :) No offense. I generally bow to your wisdom, but... no, you're wrong here. :)
Flesh Eater	Posted - 2006.11.07 01:42:00 - [59] Why do people think that their situation when it comes to "what kind of combat there is these days" applies to everyone else in Eve? FFS, if there is "only ever fleet battles these days" and you dont like it, JOIN ANOTHER CORP. There are stacks of corps which are involved in small scale operations. The Eve "world" us huge, and each region is different. If you don't like staying in your Alliance's region because things are stagnant there...go somewhere else or change corps. Pretty simple. If you are too scared to go to low sec / 0.0 without belonging to a big alliance, then that is another issue (grow some balls plz....)
Jalan Nom	Posted - 2006.11.07 01:45:00 - [60] Here is what I do not understand when people say they cannot find solo pvp. Is what they want a 1v1 contest of skill between equal ships to prove their proficiency in piloting a ship? Well for that u can always ask in local if anyone wants to duel in equally matched ships. Hey u can go play WoW and sit outside Ironforge typing /duel.... Is what they want the ability to gank ships much weaker than themselves without the bother of enlisting the help of others? Does it take any more skill to gank a hauler in a BS than it does for a gang of 20 to kill your gang of 5? Is what they want to be like Rambo and to show the world that they are an elite spaceship commando that can plow through waves of enemy players through their skill and guile? Unfortunately, if that was truly possible I think the other 29,999 people online or so would be kinda jealous. The fact is, in this game, much like life, there is little room for heroes. You are NOT in a movie and even if you were you are NOT the main character. The calvary will most likely NOT arrive precisely after your hard won fight against your archnemesis right before his cronies try to jump you. Most likely it will arrive early and your archnemesis will scream gank, or they will not arrive at all and u will end up very dead. How many military anything IRL do you see doing anything alone? See any hotshot fighter pilots who refuse to fly with a wingman because they want all the glory? Navy Seals that ditch their squad to go running off killing as many people as he can alone so he doesn't have to share credit? Any battleships that steam off alone in pursuit of another solo battleship they can have a nice 1v1 against? The fact is in real life, unlike the movies or single player games, running off alone and trying to be a hero usually ends up with you dead and most people commenting on your stupidity rather than your bravery. I like the fact that EvE mirrors this.

Wrayeth Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.11.07 02:20:00 - [61] Edited by: Wrayeth on 07/11/2006 02:20:42 Since no one else has brought this up, I'd just like to chime in with my two ISK in regards to the effects Kali will have on solo PvP: namely, that solo PvP will no longer be viable except when ganking something significantly weaker than your own ship. The reason? Increased fight durations. When a fight lasts five minutes, your target's buddies have that much more time to arrive and beat the crap out of you. Sometimes, on rare occasions, this can be a good thing (such as when you outclass all of your opponents put together); usually, however, it means you either have to run (assuming you can get away) or get ganked. Bottom line: solo PvP will be pretty much dead after Kali. This, combined with the effective nerf to Minmatar ships due to the hitpoint changes--as well as the javelin torpedo overnerf--is why my account has been cancelled. Questions? Comments? Stupid tricks? -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!" R.I.P. AC tempest R.I.P. Torp raven Thanks, CCP. R.I.P. My account, after the next cycle.
Soporo	Posted - 2006.11.07 03:12:00 - [62] Wray can I have some stuff before you leave?
Flesh Eater	Posted - 2006.11.07 05:16:00 - [63] Originally by: Wrayeth Edited by: Wrayeth on 07/11/2006 02:20:42 Entire roll of toilet paper required LOL only a complete idiot would cancel their subscription purely because of an upcoming patch which has not even been finalised, let alone released. Good riddance.
Nanobotter Mk2	Posted - 2006.11.07 07:22:00 - [64] "My opinion of the argument that people should not solo pvp is simple.....it's utter tosh. Discuss." My opinon is that your opinion doesnt matter for jack squat. PvP has many different forms, including solo and group. The problem is that in open formats like EVE ****ers who cannot play will simply travel in packs, blobs, zergs whatever to make up for the fact they can;t play for crap, and actively search for smaller groups and solo people to get risk free wins, while avoiding anything remotely challenging at the same time. AKA weenie pvp. Anyone worth 2 cents wants pvp that at the least has equal numbers to make caliber of play decide the outcome instead of number of friends. PErsonally I like challenging pvp where i goto play good to win, as opposed to mash 1-8 with my 8 friends and hope i get a hit in before my target pops. So i would rather do 1 on 1 and let my skills decide the fight than hump a gate with 10 people poping the odd empire dweller who happens through.
Wrayeth Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.11.07 07:46:00 - [65] Edited by: Wrayeth on 07/11/2006 07:47:15 Originally by: Flesh Eater LOL only a complete idiot would cancel their subscription purely because of an upcoming patch which has not even been finalised, let alone released. Your post says the following about you: 1.) You have never been through a major patch that contained controversial changes (or were so oblivious that you didn't notice). Once a major change hits SiSi, it will make it to TQ, and will do so with only minor tweaks; I have seen exactly one exception to this trend since I joined in June of 2004. 2.) You have not been on SiSi and tested Kali. 3.) Your playstyle does not primarily involve solo and very small gang PvP. 4.) You have never flown an AC tempest in solo engagements against other competent battleship pilots. Due to your utter and complete lack of qualifications (and intelligence, for that matter), do yourself a favor and leave the thread before you make yourself appear even more of a moron. The preceding flame has been brought to you by my utter and complete contempt for the quoted poster. -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!" R.I.P. AC tempest R.I.P. Torp raven Thanks, CCP. R.I.P. My account, after the next cycle.
Flesh Eater	Posted - 2006.11.07 07:52:00 - [66] Originally by: Wrayeth More of the sloppy stuff Here's some more toilet paper for your mouth...looks like you missed a bit.
Wrayeth Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.11.07 07:56:00 - [67] Edited by: Wrayeth on 07/11/2006 07:56:46 Originally by: Flesh Eater Originally by: Wrayeth More of the sloppy stuff Here's some more toilet paper for your mouth...looks like you missed a bit. A.) You're a tool. B.) You're a tool. C.) You obviously have no way to refute my actual statements and thus felt the need to post complete nonsense. As a result, D.) You're still a tool. -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!" R.I.P. AC tempest R.I.P. Torp raven Thanks, CCP. R.I.P. My account, after the next cycle.
Felix Dzerzhinsky	Posted - 2006.11.07 08:23:00 - [68] Originally by: Flesh Eater Originally by: Wrayeth More of the sloppy stuff Here's some more toilet paper for your mouth...looks like you missed a bit. Use your head because I think you left it somewhere. People have a lot to worry about, and for good reason. These changes are very substantial - my personal gripe is not with the awful state of Amarr ships, or the unnessiary nurf to T2 Ammo, or the T2 lottery system, or with the HP increace or with the fact that this game is turning into 'caldari-online' - these are all issues, but add them and you have a massive problem. My persoanl gripe is with the warp to 0kms. . .Now one should be able to warp within 15kms of a warp-gate. thats how it used to be, and thats where the ggate camping culture evolved from (but you were not playing yet, so you don't know). Then BMs were exploited to make instas, the Devs were worried but it helped the economy by moving things faster. Now warp to 0 is implemented to gget rid of BMs, not so that solo traders (so you can move ggoods solo but you can't fight solo?) can move there goods. . . So everything above 0.1 becomes 'empire space' in the true sense of the word, while 0.0 border regions will become even worse. But thats my personal gripe, the worst idea yet. So please, stop acting like the people on the WoW forums who tell people to either accept the ****ty game (don't be critical) or leave. and when they get fed up, for legitimate reasons, people like you say 'good riddance'. . . which makes you a tool.
St3v3sancho The Roughneck's	Posted - 2006.11.07 09:09:00 - [69] I recently decided to dabble in a bit of low sec piracy. I have literally flown around for perhaps 10 hours in total around the Khanid region without being able to pick ONE fight. Sure I could have gate camped but that is sooo boring and unrewarding for me personally. Everything has to have a risk vs reward balance and at the moment there is NO reward worth risking your ship for in low sec. In turn no-one goes there and solo PvP is difficult to achieve. I've even sat at asteroid belts killing NPS's wating for pirates to come to me and have failed. It's a self destructive system. No-one goes into low sec, no pirates go into low sec, no-one goes into low sec. The ONLY solution is for CCP to incentivise players to go into low sec somehow with something they would risk being j7umped for. Everyone wins.
ShardowRhino Legion 0f The Damned	Posted - 2006.11.07 11:51:00 - [70] What you guys need is THUNDERDOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! yes you can pvp only those that wish to pvp and ONLY 1 on 1!

ShardowRhino Legion 0f The Damned	Posted - 2006.11.07 11:52:00 - [71] Originally by: Flesh Eater Originally by: Wrayeth Edited by: Wrayeth on 07/11/2006 02:20:42 Entire roll of toilet paper required LOL only a complete idiot would cancel their subscription purely because of an upcoming patch which has not even been finalised, let alone released. Good riddance. dude..this forum is looking more Soe like as the days go by. people saying they are leaving cuase of a patch not released yet. whine threads about stupid stuff ....wheres zatozia???
Katamarino Blazing Angels Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2006.11.07 12:10:00 - [72] Eve is an incredibly flexible game. You should PvP solo, or in a group, depending on what you feel like doing. The end!
Triss S'Jet Gallente MC Cubed Inc Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.07 13:18:00 - [73] Solution to all PvP problems? NERF LOCAL! It's that easy.
Dragonis Mendez Total Disillusion	Posted - 2006.11.07 13:53:00 - [74] Edited by: Dragonis Mendez on 07/11/2006 13:53:55 Originally by: Triss S'Jet Solution to all PvP problems? NERF LOCAL! It's that easy. Hmmmm true I made a post with an idea..short summery: keep local but only display the ppl if you have a POS in the system with a module online (system scanning array or sth)....So you have an advantage if this is your system...and in lowsec most ppl traveling through dont see ppl in local...that would be great for pirates/solo PvPer and improve PvP in general link to the post in "Features and Ideas Discussion"-Forum http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=416219 this is my idea to help solo PvP and pirates a little bit and also improve the combat in your homelands
LC Sulla BGG Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.07 13:54:00 - [75] Edited by: LC Sulla on 07/11/2006 13:55:12 Originally by: Triss S'Jet Solution to all PvP problems? NERF LOCAL! It's that easy. Trying to be open minded I'm a little confused by how this could work. If you removed local and I was ratting then I would not know who's in the system. Means a lot of spamming the scan button. This bit I can understand. It's from the pirates point of view I find more tricky. As a pirate you wouldn't know who's in system (and many 0.0 systems don't always have people in them). You would have to warp to every planet (in a reasonably sized system) and scan for ships on the basic scanner. This would waste a LOT of time because you would mostly be scanning empty systems (and a careful pilot ratting in a belt would be scanning the system too). If detected they would be ss'ed or leave system and you wouldn't know they had left. On the surface of it seems like a nightmare for pirates (imo).
Dragonis Mendez Total Disillusion	Posted - 2006.11.07 14:00:00 - [76] Originally by: LC Sulla Edited by: LC Sulla on 07/11/2006 13:55:12 Originally by: Triss S'Jet Solution to all PvP problems? NERF LOCAL! It's that easy. Trying to be open minded I'm a little confused by how this could work. If you removed local and I was ratting then I would not know who's in the system. Means a lot of spamming the scan button. This bit I can understand. It's from the pirates point of view I find more tricky. As a pirate you wouldn't know who's in system (and many 0.0 systems don't always have people in them). You would have to warp to every planet (in a reasonably sized system) and scan for ships on the basic scanner. This would waste a LOT of time because you would mostly be scanning empty systems (and a careful pilot ratting in a belt would be scanning the system too). If detected they would be ss'ed or leave system and you wouldn't know they had left. On the surface of it seems like a nightmare for pirates (imo). You can fly in the belts with a covops for example and a little gang outside of scanrange waits for the warpinpoint...its too late to warp out if you see sb on scanner 2-3 sec before he arrives... In my eys its not ok that local shows cloaked ships etc.. or let local only show the pilots currently in the scanrange of your ship...so you dont need to hit "scan" every 2 seconds but showing all pilots in the large system cloaked or uncloaked docked or undocked is hmmmm...not what I understand under fair conditions ;) not for pirates and not for gangs flying through enemy territory
Triss S'Jet Gallente MC Cubed Inc Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.07 14:07:00 - [77] Originally by: LC Sulla Edited by: LC Sulla on 07/11/2006 13:55:12 Originally by: Triss S'Jet Solution to all PvP problems? NERF LOCAL! It's that easy. Trying to be open minded I'm a little confused by how this could work. If you removed local and I was ratting then I would not know who's in the system. Means a lot of spamming the scan button. This bit I can understand. It's from the pirates point of view I find more tricky. As a pirate you wouldn't know who's in system (and many 0.0 systems don't always have people in them). You would have to warp to every planet (in a reasonably sized system) and scan for ships on the basic scanner. This would waste a LOT of time because you would mostly be scanning empty systems (and a careful pilot ratting in a belt would be scanning the system too). If detected they would be ss'ed or leave system and you wouldn't know they had left. On the surface of it seems like a nightmare for pirates (imo). Scanning will be faster and easier, with all the new features and scan probes coming with Kali. You can also always check the map, and see how many active pilots where active during last 30 minutes in any given system, so it's pretty easy to estimate your chances of finding someone there.
Ilmonstre Minmatar TYRANTS	Posted - 2006.11.07 14:13:00 - [78] if you wanna get fights go invade a region and go behind enemy lines and i am sure you will find some lone travlers who are kitted to fight
MrTripps Gallente	Posted - 2006.11.07 16:55:00 - [79] I tried solo PVP in low sec yesterday. I got all excited when a Rupture jumped into the belt and locked. I got even more excited when I had it down to half amour and my Rax still had half its shields. Then his buddies in the Brutix and the Rook showed up. After that everything got red and flashy and I had to get another clone. Solo PVP makes ship builders happy. Most people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so. - Bertrand Russell
Kruel Blunt Force Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.07 17:08:00 - [80] Originally by: St3v3sancho I recently decided to dabble in a bit of low sec piracy. I have literally flown around for perhaps 10 hours in total around the Khanid region without being able to pick ONE fight. Sure I could have gate camped but that is sooo boring and unrewarding for me personally. Everything has to have a risk vs reward balance and at the moment there is NO reward worth risking your ship for in low sec. In turn no-one goes there and solo PvP is difficult to achieve. I've even sat at asteroid belts killing NPS's wating for pirates to come to me and have failed. It's a self destructive system. No-one goes into low sec, no pirates go into low sec, no-one goes into low sec. The ONLY solution is for CCP to incentivise players to go into low sec somehow with something they would risk being j7umped for. Everyone wins. QFT. As an example... last night I went to a low sec system. There were only 4 players there (including myself). The .6 system right next to it had over 50 people. Ships/mods are too expensive for people to risk it all for a slight increase in reward. The low sec rewards (ie. ore and rats) need to be increased dramatically, or rather high sec rewards decreased. Perhaps increase taxes in high sec systems. Oh yeah, and nerf local. Local should be an optional channel. If you join it, the others in the channel can see you... otherwise you should be invisible.

Buxaroo Black Dwarf Caldari Deep Space Industral	Posted - 2006.11.07 17:28:00 - [81] Originally by: Christopher Multsanti Edited by: Christopher Multsanti on 06/11/2006 02:43:13 A few people have said this a few times in different areas on these and forums in the past, and it gets me worked up every time. My opinion of the argument that people should not solo pvp is simple.....it's utter tosh. Discuss. Like Dark Shakari said, it's pretty hard to do solo pvp anywhere unless you are alone and happen upon someone who is ratting and not paying attention to local etc. I think it would be cool if you could do some solo pvp but the only time I have seen it happen was where someone invited someone else for 1vs1. And then there's the offchance that someone would not honor it (someone in my alliance didn't honor a 1vs1 and I was ****ed that he didn't keep his word) thus spoiling the fun. On the other hand Christopher I have seen you in very small gangs roaming around but don't think I saw you solo
Nanobotter Mk2	Posted - 2006.11.07 18:07:00 - [82] "My persoanl gripe is with the warp to 0kms. . .Now one should be able to warp within 15kms of a warp-gate. thats how it used to be, and thats where the ggate camping culture evolved from (but you were not playing yet, so you don't know). Then BMs were exploited to make instas, the Devs were worried but it helped the economy by moving things faster. Now warp to 0 is implemented to gget rid of BMs, not so that solo traders (so you can move ggoods solo but you can't fight solo?) can move there goods. . . So everything above 0.1 becomes 'empire space' in the true sense of the word, while 0.0 border regions will become even worse." Har Har, seeing your mister wise old been around for so long then you would have known originally you could warp to 3km ( maybe you weren;t playing yet so you don't know....CCP backed it up to 15km hoping to spur more PVP, but instead created this lame gate camping culture we have now that is essentially spawn camping, not to mention they didnt for see the fact people would just make bookmarks to accomplish the exact same thing being warp to 0km. The only people who whine about warp to 0km are weenies who got off ganking noobies and mission runners who didnt know to use bookmarks or were too lazy to use them. It was a terrible game mehcanic that stratified players by simply those who went through all the nonsense to deal with their bookmarks and those who didnt want to be bothered. So 0km really changes nothing, beyond the fact that nolonger will people that have bookmarks get a huge advantage in safety over those who do not, and people who like to gank noobs without them will now have a tougher time ganking noobs... Which is a trivial change at best imho. You want pvp you should be looking to find other people who want pvp instead of ganking helpless targets, as your only and main source of pvp.
Wrayeth Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.11.07 21:17:00 - [83] Originally by: ShardowRhino dude..this forum is looking more Soe like as the days go by. people saying they are leaving cuase of a patch not released yet. This is all too true, unfortunately. Right now, I feel like I did when I was playing SWG and Commando got nerfed into uselessness in PvP, or when I was a Pistoleer and uber armor came out and ****** the ability of a Pistoleer to win a PvP fight, or when...well, you get the idea. I quit SWG because they destroyed my chosen professions one after another, and I eventually realized how pointless it was when anything you try will become useless over time. Now I feel that the same thing is happening with EVE. The sensation is all too familiar and, I fear, will result in a permanent cancellation, not just a short break. I'd really, really love to keep playing, but the changes screw both my playstyle (solo and very small gang combat) and my chosen ships (the AC tempest and torp raven). -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!" R.I.P. AC tempest R.I.P. Torp raven Thanks, CCP. R.I.P. My account, after the next cycle.


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