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Pious Pete	Posted - 2006.11.10 09:31:00 - [1] EVE has gone through 5-6 major shifts in balance now, and considering the speed at which things change I think it is fair to conclude: It is more effective to jump the bandwagon from race to race than to train a single race and stick with it. Think about it, Amarr as an example have been whining for 11 months straight. Not a single Amarr thread can get posted nowadays without some whiner hijacking it. In that space of time you could have trained a good spread of Dominix, Blasterthron, Raven or AC pest skills. Now with balance changing again we'll have another 1+ year period of a ship type/race being on top. You could simply train for that ship (Rokh, cough.) and in 4-5 months time be very effective at it, leaving you another 5-6 months to pwn everyone you come across before the whole cycle starts over again. Specialization is overrated, who cares about 5% damage and 3% HP here and there when you could train for an overpowered ship and fly it with half decent skills but pwn twice as hard?
Sandra Tseng THE MISPHIT'S	Posted - 2006.11.10 09:41:00 - [2] coughdrakecough _ Killed my sig AGAIN! :p http://www.ninc.org/krubarax/images/2d/verydisco.jpg
Samirol Ore Mongers	Posted - 2006.11.10 09:42:00 - [3] or stay with your ships and pwn triple hard when your race becomes overpowered
Pious Pete	Posted - 2006.11.10 09:45:00 - [4] Originally by: Samirol or stay with your ships and pwn triple hard when your race becomes overpowered Okay, say I was a Crusader/Zealot/Geddon pilot pre-stacking nerf, pre-radio nerf, pre-pulse range nerf. How long have I been waiting again? 20 months. In that time things have gotten worse twice (RMR and now Kali) before they're getting any better. Bandwagon jumping ftw
Ishana Minmatar The Black Rabbits	Posted - 2006.11.10 09:49:00 - [5] Edited by: Ishana on 10/11/2006 09:50:32 <= minmatar specialist skill in training: caldari cruiser 4 skills in que: caldari cruiser 5, caldari BS 1-4, HAM 1-5, HAM spec 1-4 _________________________________________________________
Splagada Minmatar Tides of Silence	Posted - 2006.11.10 09:52:00 - [6] i stick to minnie since this char was created currently large auto spec 4, large arty in training no shield skill at all 3500 sp in missile skills :p half of SP in gunnery, tons in mechanic and tons in drones BS5 finished next month char has been unplayable(or very very very underpowered) since i could fit an autopest now i see the Hurricane and Maelestrom come, i'm so happy !! :D Patience pays ------ relaxed corp looking for members
Samirol Ore Mongers	Posted - 2006.11.10 09:52:00 - [7] its because like 10% of the playerbase is amarr
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.10 10:07:00 - [8] If you want to have the "best" ships, then yeah, get on the bandwagon. The game is never 100% balanced, so some ships are always better than the rest. Its sometimes just annoying though, like missiles being very quick to train for, and also being the best in the majority of situations, but I guess thats the way ccp wants it. I know when I can pick between going for artillery or siege launchers on my Typhoon, its no question about it. Siege has several hundred higher dps, so why use artillery? It will be even more so in Kali with the nerfed alpha. But oh well, we'll try to adapt. I will use minmatar ships where I can, and caldari ships when the minnie ones arent up to standards. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.10 10:17:00 - [9] It's like... train caldari for KALdarI. ----------------------------------------------- KALI WILL SAVE US ALL...
Sandra Tseng THE MISPHIT'S	Posted - 2006.11.10 10:20:00 - [10] Originally by: Splagada i stick to minnie since this char was created currently large auto spec 4, large arty in training no shield skill at all 3500 sp in missile skills :p half of SP in gunnery, tons in mechanic and tons in drones BS5 finished next month char has been unplayable(or very very very underpowered) since i could fit an autopest now i see the Hurricane and Maelestrom come, i'm so happy !! :D Patience pays I am in your clothes. But answear me this plz: How will the MALESTROM satisfy you? Maybe you did not notice its all GHEY shieldboost bonus? :p Killed my sig AGAIN! :p http://www.ninc.org/krubarax/images/2d/verydisco.jpg
Splagada Minmatar Tides of Silence	Posted - 2006.11.10 11:14:00 - [11] Edited by: Splagada on 10/11/2006 11:15:14 Originally by: Sandra Tseng Originally by: Splagada i stick to minnie since this char was created currently large auto spec 4, large arty in training no shield skill at all 3500 sp in missile skills :p half of SP in gunnery, tons in mechanic and tons in drones BS5 finished next month char has been unplayable(or very very very underpowered) since i could fit an autopest now i see the Hurricane and Maelestrom come, i'm so happy !! :D Patience pays I am in your clothes. But answear me this plz: How will the MALESTROM satisfy you? Maybe you did not notice its all GHEY shieldboost bonus? :p yah well like a ferox has gun bonuses and everyone uses it as a missile boat it has a freaking TANK (like the rest of the BSes yes! but so much better than the current BSes) it has 8 turret hardpoints with the ROF bonus i will see how that goes with 8x T2 650 and hail L... with the 3 gyros i plan to add on lows, the damage is going to be quite impressive it has 6 med slots so you can make a true painful ecm/mwd/Hi i'm by your door setup(super autopest), and cap will not be a problem with that many slots for rechargers and 5 low slots only, but who cares. 3 gyros, 1DC, 1 repair, good to go nice dronebay too. i love it even if a bit less than the BC. The hurricane anyway is so sweet it makes up for anything :p ------ relaxed corp looking for members
PNXR Admin	Posted - 2006.11.10 11:27:00 - [12] I've been in Eve 9 months or so, and I started Caldari but now I'm training Amarr, mainly because Caldari just bores the **** out of me. I know everyone says Amarr are crap, but I see that as kind of the challenge. There's always going to be imbalances in any game, and I find the ones that complain are often (note, not always) the ones who want their ship to be 'the best', and are annoyed when in a 1v1 battle against another ship of the same class, they might lose. But how often do these situations pop up? Really? Sure there maybe a few big imbalances that for the good of the game need tweaking, but even if an entire race was slightly 'weaker' than another race, I don't see that as a problem. Firstly there are almost always advantages to flying some ships in the 'weak' race, that can be utilised efficiently, with a little bit of thought and strategy, but also I'm just not convinced it really matters. In any particular class there are always gonna be some ships that are better than others, the answer is not to make them all the same. The way to find ship-flying happiness ( :) ) is to find a ship/race that just fits. That makes you go oOoooohhh, when you fly it. For me that seems to be Amarr. Just for reference, a few things that have made me annoyed about Caldari: 1. Missiles. Yep, good damage, but I hate having to wait 10 secs for that damage to start happening. I can't count the number of times my missiles have trailed off a pod or damaged frig as it's just warped out ahead. 2. The Cruisers are really rubbish. Ok, so the BB isn't (but there's that 'niche' thing again :) (ECM's)) but the caracal, yep, good damage, but with the 5 launchers it's hard to fit a good tank. And the cap is truly shocking. Kind of same with the Moa, what does it actually do? and is it worth the cost? (I don't really want answers to these :) ) 3. They're so obvious. Really really predictable. You see a Caldari ship and 9 times out of 10 you'll know what its packing. You know the strategy it will use. It's BORING!. not so with the others I think. I've come up with some great 'alternative' setups for ships of all the other races, that have made me quite excited, especially within a small-large gang situation, but I haven't come up with 1 for Caldari.
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries Confederation of Independent Corporations	Posted - 2006.11.10 11:46:00 - [13] Tbh excess specialization is pretty stupid in concept, regardless of FOTMs. Training skills that take 30 days to finish for a 2% gain, while you could train up a whole new line of weapons in the same time strikes me as unwise. Especially for PvP where such minor advantages are totally lost among NOS, EW, big gangs... Imho if you have 10 mil SP in lasers and 0 in hybrids, projectiles and missiles, you need professional help. The advantage from lvl5 in spec skills or stuff like surgical strike is meaningless. The advantage of being able to use any ship with any weapon at any time is priceless. --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.10 11:47:00 - [14] Splagada, I think it will be fine as a autocannon boat too, but its pretty annoying that its being designed as a artillery ship with that slow speed and heavy mass. There really is no reason to not allow it to be a fast ship like the other minmatar battleships. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Angus Torg	Posted - 2006.11.10 12:03:00 - [15] Originally by: LUKEC It's like... train caldari for KALdarI. I hate to say it. But you are right :-( __________________________________________________ "And they told me that it hurts only the first time." (c) doomed since 2003
altern8t	Posted - 2006.11.10 12:16:00 - [16] I have 2 chars, One is gal.cal mix missiles and rails my other is pure ammar, I much prefer using my ammar character, because when i get into a ship, i know that im getting the best out of it for my SP. Sure im not as versatile and im outclassed in certain classes of ship, But the ships i do fly, i fly well
Kunming Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.10 12:32:00 - [17] Originally by: LUKEC It's like... train caldari for KALdarI. LMAO, u owe me a cup of coffee
The Novis	Posted - 2006.11.10 14:21:00 - [18] Not all Dom/Raven pilots ( or any other ship ) are bandwagoners, i personally have flown dom since i was in bs's back when they were classed as the worst bs in eve and will fly in the future when other ships overtake it again
Ishmael Hansen No Quarter. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.11.10 15:07:00 - [19] I made a caldari char because the description said that caldari had the better ships/weapons, who knew that stuff like attributes were important at that time. Anyway, after 2 years of caldari being crappy for everything except pve, I'm glad that we now have a pwnmobile :P. I recon Drake is overpowered, but so is the Hurricane, haven't flew the others, hear that Gallente got the small stick, but I hope CCP won't nerf tier 2 bc's because this will do better for Hac prices then every invention or bpo release.
Shardrael Caldari AWE Corporation Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.10 15:22:00 - [20] Edited by: Shardrael on 10/11/2006 15:24:33 Edited by: Shardrael on 10/11/2006 15:23:47 Originally by: Samirol or stay with your ships and pwn triple hard when your race becomes overpowered QFT minnys day has come Originally by: Pinky Denmark Caldari have other options like using rails or train for other ships/weapons...
Plymer Ization ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.10 15:53:00 - [21] I must be insane, I've clearly trained all the wrong races so far: Minmatar Specialized (AFs/Inties/HACs/CSs/CovOps/Recons) and soon to be T2 Large Projectile spec'd Amarr up to BS 4 I actually don't find myself all that gimped. Bring on the Hurricane
Kharakan Amarr GREY COUNCIL	Posted - 2006.11.10 16:30:00 - [22] Originally by: Samirol or stay with your ships and pwn triple hard when your race becomes overpowered I'm waiting I'm waiting! Originally by: Joshua Foiritain (to Dark Shikari) HAHAHA I KNOW YOUR ACCOUUNT NAME TIME TO DIE this signature space is claimed in the name of eris, haha I got to him first. neeneer
schurem Anarchy Inc. Confederation of Independent Corporations	Posted - 2006.11.10 19:15:00 - [23] Edited by: schurem on 10/11/2006 19:16:08 I fly a dominix pretty **** good (near perfect drone skills, bs4) and a tempest almost as well. These trees enable me to pwn the crap out of sh!t with a mach, as well as choose ships for different situation. I'm contemplating trying on some more amarr skills, I think them battleships could kick the crap out of rogue drones and sansha rats. All races are equally cool imo, except for cookie-cutter bandwagon caldari cr4p-boats, which take no skill, no time investment, and no tactics at all. i will never be found in a raven, no siree! <<<< No Boundaries, No Fences, Fly Free* Or Die Trying* >>>> Warning sounds!, My kingdom for more warning sounds!
Aeaus Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.11.10 20:00:00 - [24] I'm happily staying with my Amarr/Gallente/Minmatar specialization, and I still failed so now I'm training up an alt for Caldari Last Weeks Signature
Beringe Caldari Raptus Regaliter	Posted - 2006.11.10 20:03:00 - [25] I flew ravens back when missiles were so bad at everything that everyone just laughed at them. I actually used lasers in the turret slots (this was back when lasers were wtfpwnage)! Incidentally, I also flew Gallente ships back then. And they sucked for everything except mining for the longest of times (especially pre-exodus). ------------------------------------------- "Sarcasm and irony are not to be used by the uninitiated." --Daitan Beringe, honorary director in charge of bottles--
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2006.11.11 04:05:00 - [26] Originally by: Samirol or stay with your ships and pwn triple hard when your race becomes overpowered /me pets his 7 mil sps in missiles, "Soon(tm) my pretty, the Drake will make you all worthwhile..." Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Benglada Finite Horizon The Red Skull	Posted - 2006.11.11 04:07:00 - [27] i got a cald char and hated it, traded it for a minm char which i like :) --------------------------- Originally by: Arkanor 0.0 is the Final Frontier. Bring money and friends.
xeom Veto.	Posted - 2006.11.11 04:42:00 - [28] Currently minmatar training upto CS then going for amarr to CS. I must like pain. --- "Those nuclear missiles are for domestic heating." - Scagga
mazzilliu Caldari Sniggerdly	Posted - 2006.11.11 07:57:00 - [29] im going to stick with minmatar forever. i just like their ships. 1000% awesome guide to logging out
Selbbin Reppep	Posted - 2006.11.11 11:40:00 - [30] Originally by: Pious Pete Specialization is overrated, who cares about 5% damage and 3% HP here and there when you could train for an overpowered ship and fly it with half decent skills but pwn twice as hard? OK, I hear you, but isn't the point of races, that each one is good an a certain aspect of all facets of the game. You got about 8 types of fighting ships - Each race should have atleast one or two that they are best at. If you look at natrual selection this would have to be the case.
Majin82 Caldari g guild	Posted - 2006.11.11 13:22:00 - [31] Originally by: LUKEC It's like... train caldari for KALdarI. OMG They figured it out... quick change the name to Revelations ------------------------------------- Proud member of G Guild!
Cmndr Griff	Posted - 2006.11.15 00:44:00 - [32] Well as people have said, just fly what you like the look of and what suits how you play. And anyway, because everyone at the moment likes to take a stab at Amarr, CCP should take the hint. If not, I like to think that being Amarrian on Eve is the same as playing on a higher diffuclty setting on any game. Plus being the underdog is fun. It's infinitely more rewarding when you take down a*****y 'I read on the forum that so and so is best so I use it now' pilot.
Bardi MecAuldnis Amarr Pirates of Destruction Union Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.15 01:01:00 - [33] I'm waiting.... Right now, my skills are split between Amarr and Caldari. Once Khanid make Tux happy in the pants, I will never set foot in a Caldari hull again. 'til then, it's on to the Curse (friggin' drpwn skills...). --- Hey hey let's go kenka suru! Taisetsuna mono protect my balls! Boku ga warui so lets fighting! LET'S FIGHTING LOVE!!!
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.15 02:47:00 - [34] Originally by: Pious Pete EVE has gone through 5-6 major shifts in balance now, and considering the speed at which things change I think it is fair to conclude: It is more effective to jump the bandwagon from race to race than to train a single race and stick with it. Think about it, Amarr as an example have been whining for 11 months straight. Not a single Amarr thread can get posted nowadays without some whiner hijacking it. In that space of time you could have trained a good spread of Dominix, Blasterthron, Raven or AC pest skills. Now with balance changing again we'll have another 1+ year period of a ship type/race being on top. You could simply train for that ship (Rokh, cough.) and in 4-5 months time be very effective at it, leaving you another 5-6 months to pwn everyone you come across before the whole cycle starts over again. Specialization is overrated, who cares about 5% damage and 3% HP here and there when you could train for an overpowered ship and fly it with half decent skills but pwn twice as hard? We dont all have the time and money to train for every **** ship there is in eve. Face it not everyone has been playing this game since it came out. We dont have all skills and we sure dont wanna spend 1 year getting owned because we happend to pick a weak race.
Sinnbad Mayhem	Posted - 2006.11.15 02:56:00 - [35] Edited by: Sinnbad Mayhem on 15/11/2006 02:56:52 /me walks upto the microphone, clears throat Dear Mr OP: Get a clue and fly in a Gang Have a nice day S&M
Anjerrai Meloanis Minmatar Omerta Syndicate Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2006.11.15 02:56:00 - [36] Originally by: Majin82 Originally by: LUKEC It's like... train caldari for KALdarI. OMG They figured it out... quick change the name to Revelations kali was a codename, just like shiva was for exodus. uh.
Anjerrai Meloanis Minmatar Omerta Syndicate Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2006.11.15 03:03:00 - [37] Originally by: Splagada i stick to minnie since this char was created no shield skill at all now i see the Hurricane and Maelestrom come, i'm so happy !! :D right... Originally by: Splagada it has 8 turret hardpoints with the ROF bonus i will see how that goes with 8x T2 650 and hail L... with the 3 gyros i plan to add on lows, the damage is going to be quite impressive it has 6 med slots so you can make a true painful ecm/mwd/Hi i'm by your door setup(super autopest), and cap will not be a problem with that many slots for rechargers and 5 low slots only, but who cares. 3 gyros, 1DC, 1 repair, good to go So your setup would be something like? Lemme try extrapolate from that description. 8x t2 650mm II 1x 100mn mwd 1-2 cap rechargers? 3-4 ecm? 3 gyro's 1 dc and 1 large rep.. minmatar specialised lol, thats so insulting! uh.
Phelan Lore Sniggerdly	Posted - 2006.11.15 03:15:00 - [38] Stick with one race I say. When I first started Apocs and Geddons were the BS of choice, Ravens sucked because missiles were so **** slow, crows sucked because light missiles couldn't catch up to other frigs, nobody used medium turrets on cruisers, everybody used the thorax for the cruiser class because it could field 8x heavy drones (which tracked as well as lights), and the Cerberus was the biggest joke in the game. I have T2 large projectiles, minmatar inties, dictors, AF, HACs, and soon recons. If I had followed every trend in the game I might have T2 mediums for a couple races, but definitely no larges and I wouldn't have as many T2 ship classes.
Flesh Eater	Posted - 2006.11.15 05:02:00 - [39] A perception on the forum is not really a good basis for identifying trends in ship balance. People tend to think that their most used race is underpowered even if it is balanced, and a lot of statements made are very speculative....just look at how many people talk with certainty about changes which are announced but not yet implemented. Statistical data from the server would have much more value.
Tyler Lowe Minmatar DROW Org Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.15 05:36:00 - [40] Actually, I agree with the OP, but probably not for the same reason it was written. Training a wide variety of skills allows you to sample a much larger portion of the game. You gain appreciation for what other players experience, both good and bad. If you are a very Type-A person and need to be "the best", it may be depressing when you feel as though someone else is getting more out of their specialization than you are from yours. Getting the most out of things in my experience often boils down to attitude. You start saying how underpowered you feel, and with enough repetition begin to believe it as though it were The Truth. Opinion becomes muddied up and churned out as "fact" in your mind's eye, and so the other guy always has it better. The reality may well be that it's more or less a wash, but you have no frame of reference outside your specialization, which you've become convinced was a waste of time. I guess for me, the bottom line is, if the only reason you chose a particular race or class of ships was to "pwn" and you find that you're just not having any fun when it turns out that they aren't what you'd hoped, the only person to blame is you. Pick what you enjoy. That way, no matter what else is true, the game is still fun, and that is how IMO you "win" at Eve. J.A.F.O.
Xendie Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.11.15 05:42:00 - [41] training large hybrid specs atm and after that its large proj spec. and i already have large amarr guns specced. just because i train to use another race guns and ships doesnt mean that i wont be **ed over what tux has done to all the amarr ships. i still thinks he sucks at his job. Quote:** Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
slothe Caldari Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.11.15 05:55:00 - [42] Edited by: slothe on 15/11/2006 05:58:59 different ships do different things and the nerfbat constantly swings. be flexible and be able to fly other races. im caldari but preferred guns so i specialised in gallente. i then trained up minmater to utilise my gunnery skills with another race. i can also fly caldari ships but no amarr. its not just races that get nerfed its specific ships. to say one race is nerfed or buffed is a fiction and inaccurate. some caldari ships are great, i love the eagle. some minnie ships are good, i love the jaguar and tempest. some gallente ships are good too. be flexible and you can sample the best of each race. bandwagoners pay the price for bandwagoning a good example is vagabonds. every player and their mother seems to be training for them. the result + massive demand for ships, sky high prices and endless moaning threads on how hac prices are out of control. think different and fly something different. its more fun and people dont know what to expect.
Mi Lai Sanguine Legion Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.15 08:21:00 - [43] I'm just speccing for the Phoon, so by the time I finish, I can step into any race ship quite quickly.
Wild Rho Amarr Black Omega Security	Posted - 2006.11.15 09:47:00 - [44] I've flown Amarr almost exclusively pretty much since I started with a very brief shot at trying some Caldari ships (mainly just liked their designs) and have never felt nerfed to be truthful - never flown gallente or mimmatar coughSCUMcough. Of course there are times when we've been the underdog and we have some ships that could use more tweaking but so does every other race at some point and the problems with Amarr are no more glaring than problems other races have. DPS graphs and so on are all well and good but they are a fairly sterile view of a ship/races performance as combat itself comes down to alot more than the one or two variables these sheets show. Also different races perform better or worse depending on different conditions of battle. If the balance was truely as bad as people made out everyone would be flying the same ships. As it is you tend to see a fair mix of ships in most areas so it can't be nearly as bad as people choose to see it. I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it.
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.15 09:49:00 - [45] Originally by: Splagada now i see the Hurricane and Maelestrom come, i'm so happy !! :D Drake > Both of them unfortunatly ----- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Gyro DuAquin1 Tri Optimum Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.11.15 10:13:00 - [46] i cant see the point tbh. Ive got two chars one is a pure caldari one, all ship skills @ 5, have more then 10mil is missle launcher operation, ew skills pimped and so on. Can fly hac, reccon, IC, CovOps, BS (scorp and raven) maxed, also i can fly logistic, which means in other words, my char can fly most of t2 ships of caldari, except the hauler and the t2 battlecruiser. And most of the ship skills are to the max, this does include the cap and electonic skills. So u see iam purley speced towards caldari. now iam going towards leadership V to train up wing command, and large hybrid, not because i want to fly the rokh just because iam caldari and i want to fly all the ships with the best possible skillpoints - not skill ;) My other char is a bit of a mix, it can fly a freighter, some gallente stuff, but then with t2 ammo coming in the game, and the mega looking ugly i choose minmatar, cause i always was a fan of tempest. Ive now finished the tempest with having most of the gunnery skills at 5. Now this char needs some love in the basic stuff, which is no on its way. Both chars suck in drones cause i tend to forget those in the bay, station or to get it back in. Iam not intrested in capital ship, but iam thinking about training up nagilfar for the 2nd char. just because there is nothing that intrests me, iam not a vaga fan, i fly ac pest, iam not a munin fan, cause i could switch char and to an eagle, ic could be intresing though, but ill going to decide what do to as soon as ive done the basics. So far to the chars, as u can see the first one is spezalized in most caldari related things, i also can fly a rifter and an incrusus, which gives me the option to fly other ships for me its about gettin absolut speced in a certain race, because iam a fan of that thing, what is the point trainign up other races u have no intrest in. Ive check all other races and there is simple no ship that kind of intrestes me, sure some are nice, but mostly its just unintresting. For me specing is the way to go, cause with more ppl getin more sp, its just about being good at a ship, if i fly a raven and meet another raven we 1vs1, i dont have to care about him being better skill point whise, i can get in the fight fully confident that my skills are good enough to match most of the ppl out there. I would feel kind of unsecure going out in a bs that i dont have maxed, its just me though, iam probally not a bad pvp but its just giving me more confidence. ppl have mentioned long skill times and so on, tbh i dont care about how long it takes that way i dont have to bother with certain matter like switchign training every 18hours, its just easier to skill, once u have reached 30mil+ sp the time factor becomes less important cause u can fly the ship/race of u choice and its just about maxing skills.
Trefnis Solidline Enterprise Kith of Venal	Posted - 2006.11.15 11:10:00 - [47] Same as the guy above. In the beggining i failed to see the path ahead and trained for apoc (best for mining, dont even have large lasers), then mega and domi (bs 3 and guns 3), but then I got on sisi when you had all skill lvl 5 there and got myself in claw and did a wreck for 300+ and I knew minmatar is my race. Right now I have 34m+ sp and can fly all minmatar t2 ships (except transports and I never will), large spec lvl 5 (ac spec 5 in training. drones t2 and missiles t2 just for the phoon, and i still have 7m+ sp in missiles to train and like 7m+ in drones. Then the capitals... Specing is good for performance and just imagine when matari will be on top again what can you do with all that skills.
Zixxa	Posted - 2006.11.15 11:25:00 - [48] Rokh is absolutely average ship. Has good optimal and lowest dps except Scorpion and Raven. A bit more shilds which cannon be used effectively either solo(need web, scramblers, NWD/AB) or in the fleen(need SB, AB, TC ). Under almost any conditions except sniping from the 200+ km Mega is better.
Paigan Amarr Katsu Corporation	Posted - 2006.11.15 11:27:00 - [49] Edited by: Paigan on 15/11/2006 11:29:10 Originally by: Pious Pete Specialization is overrated, who cares about 5% damage and 3% HP here and there when you could train for an overpowered ship and fly it with half decent skills but pwn twice as hard? /signed Exactly my speach. although, 50% of all people in eve have an "i have everything at V in category XXXXXX" ego. How many times did i see some little boy's whining like "i have 9 million SP in missiles so i DEMAND the tier3 BS to be a missile boat!" ridiculous I have 2 MSP at missiles and that is sufficient for T2 Siege, Citadel Torps and every relevant support skill at IV. Rest is not needed. Missiles done. Next. It almost never makes sense to train anything to V if you don't get to a new branch by it (f.ex. CruiserV -> Recon Ships). I guess it's simply up to everyone personally to support and grow a "i have everything at V" ego or to skill intelligently -- This game is still in beta stage
Zixxa	Posted - 2006.11.15 11:41:00 - [50] Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Originally by: Splagada now i see the Hurricane and Maelestrom come, i'm so happy !! :D Drake > Both of them unfortunatly Nope. Drake has lowest dps except Myrmidon even using heavy assaults. Using heavy assaults drake has to care about distance, and it is not easy task becaus drake is slow and sluggish and has to sacrifice tank to fit webber, scrambler and AB/MWD.
Gyro DuAquin1 Tri Optimum Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.11.15 11:58:00 - [51] Originally by: Paigan Edited by: Paigan on 15/11/2006 11:29:10 Originally by: Pious Pete Specialization is overrated, who cares about 5% damage and 3% HP here and there when you could train for an overpowered ship and fly it with half decent skills but pwn twice as hard? /signed Exactly my speach. although, 50% of all people in eve have an "i have everything at V in category XXXXXX" ego. How many times did i see some little boy's whining like "i have 9 million SP in missiles so i DEMAND the tier3 BS to be a missile boat!" ridiculous I have 2 MSP at missiles and that is sufficient for T2 Siege, Citadel Torps and every relevant support skill at IV. Rest is not needed. Missiles done. Next. It almost never makes sense to train anything to V if you don't get to a new branch by it (f.ex. CruiserV -> Recon Ships). I guess it's simply up to everyone personally to support and grow a "i have everything at V" ego or to skill intelligently well u miss one point here, both of u, thats skill>skill, i could train up for a a zealot and i would plane suck in it, cause ive no idea about amarr, the only thing so far i know about amarr is that they can shoot in different colours, which is nice in a certain way ;) (i know a bit more^) On a more serious note, iam caldari, so i know the deal about it, i can jam like a bastard, if u ever meet me in a scorp i probally have 4-6 of u jamed cause ive learned about it, and have improved myself with using it. Ive u meet me in a raven, iam not going to shoot the frig with a torp, if u meet me in a crow ill stay 18k away and ull die and so on. U see where the point is, in eve its not about having quarters green, its about having skill to handle the ship, and to maximize the performance of the ship just that ur skill meet the skillpoints u have. Its not about having a few things trained up gettin in the ship and omfgrozorx the ** out of everyone. U can use t2 torps gratz about that, are u good with it, probally not, cause u didnt went the whole way. Its all about ship perfomance and that some ppl feel confident in some certain ships, like me in a scorp or raven, and therefore its needed that the ship perfomance gets to the max and for that u have to accept long trainign time. About ppl whining, there has been no game so far where ppl didnt whine, iam fine with the rokh, and ive got 10mil sp in missle launcher operation, do u see me whining? Dont think so, if u just train a few skills u wont get far. With t2 bs coming up (maybe) ur plane **ed, cause u dont have the skills to handle it, cause u only trainined the minmum needed. So train skills, find ur ship and maximize perfomance.
Tassi Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2006.11.15 12:25:00 - [52] I started eve with 1 char, Tassi. Trained him pure amarr but the nerfbat kept swinging in the amarr direction so I adapted and got me 2 more chars. Now I have a caldari missile *** and a gallente drone *** + Tassi in capital/pilgrim/absolution.
Radioactive Babe	Posted - 2006.11.15 12:37:00 - [53] Originally by: Paigan It almost never makes sense to train anything to V if you don't get to a new branch by it (f.ex. CruiserV -> Recon Ships). For ships that is mostly true ... for gunnery etc I can guarantee that those extra little lev 5's (over lev 4's) do make a big difference ... as they do for missle and electronic skills personally I have one char specced amarr (but mostly a industrial char - but now training for command ships for fleet bonuses) and dont have any missle skills and poor drone skills ... doesnt help flying pilgrim and dam nation My second char is specced mostly gallente but some caldari for npcing ... 7 mil sp's in gunnery and 4 mil in drones ... not too happy about Kali because with no drone hp boost I will be going through a lot of ogre 2's <nelson>ha, ha</nelson>
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.11.15 13:31:00 - [54] I whine about Minmatar as much as anyone else, and yet I still have no skills other than Minmatar in my 21mil SP. If you're good enough, you can win without bandwagoning. Not that that's right, or that it's an excuse for poor balance - it isn't - but it's doable, or myself and many others would have changed race long ago. Scrapheap Challenge Forums

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