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Kharakan Amarr GREY COUNCIL Breidablik	Posted - 2006.11.11 17:47:00 - [1] Edited by: Kharakan on 11/11/2006 18:02:49 Logout mechanics change! Originally by: Joshua Foiritain (to Dark Shikari) HAHAHA I KNOW YOUR ACCOUUNT NAME TIME TO DIE this signature space is claimed in the name of eris, haha I got to him first. neeneer
Sakura Nihil Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.11.11 17:50:00 - [2] Yup, Ovuer just promised a "when", not "if" . We have it on video! "Titans were never meant to be cost-effective, they're a huge ****" - Oveur
LordAdmiralAsriel Amarr I.D.I.O.T.	Posted - 2006.11.11 17:51:00 - [3] In which way are they beiing changend?
Kharakan Amarr GREY COUNCIL Breidablik	Posted - 2006.11.11 17:51:00 - [4] Let's just watch the goons cry =] Originally by: Joshua Foiritain (to Dark Shikari) HAHAHA I KNOW YOUR ACCOUUNT NAME TIME TO DIE this signature space is claimed in the name of eris, haha I got to him first. neeneer
Elaron Minmatar Legio Immortalis	Posted - 2006.11.11 17:53:00 - [5] They didn't say. The current mechanics almost encourage lame gameplay, so they are going to explore methods of making them less lame. I doubt they have anything more than hazy ideas so far, so it's probably better that they didn't give any specifics. Elaron It is never too late to correct the mistakes of the past.
Montaire Lacedaemon. Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.14 04:04:00 - [6] With the new Scannign tech there is a real simple fix, truth be told. Extend the time your ship stays in space. Let it warp off, by all means. But keep it there for 15 mins if un-agressed, 30 with agression of any kind (Bieng shot at, or shooting at someone) Wouldnt hurt NPC'ers. Wouldnt hurt people who LD. I've never known why Ctrl-Q doesnt send the server a log-able event before it shuts down the client.
aggiedog Kaos Order	Posted - 2006.11.14 04:13:00 - [7] Originally by: Montaire With the new Scannign tech there is a real simple fix, truth be told. Extend the time your ship stays in space. Let it warp off, by all means. But keep it there for 15 mins if un-agressed, 30 with agression of any kind (Bieng shot at, or shooting at someone) Wouldnt hurt NPC'ers. Wouldnt hurt people who LD. I've never known why Ctrl-Q doesnt send the server a log-able event before it shuts down the client. I agree, just let your ship stay there for a certain time so the enemy can clean up and probe you. Though, there is the problem of people logging on and off, on and off. Though I guess it is a matter of who gets bored first. Then again, this is a good stalling tactic when waiting for reinforcements. I do it as a problem for npc'ers. If there is a real dis --------------------------------------------- Forum Wars!...Because the battlefeild is laggy.
Aaron Static Deep Space Consortium Maelstrom Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.14 04:18:00 - [8] They will still log off to save their pods with the new scanning, but this is excellent news!
Xendie Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.11.14 04:22:00 - [9] woot finally. btw... Kresh Vladir from MDK accidentaly hit ctrl+q twice today :P Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
Kai Lae Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.11.14 04:29:00 - [10] Originally by: Montaire With the new Scannign tech there is a real simple fix, truth be told. Extend the time your ship stays in space. Let it warp off, by all means. But keep it there for 15 mins if un-agressed, 30 with agression of any kind (Bieng shot at, or shooting at someone) Wouldnt hurt NPC'ers. Wouldnt hurt people who LD. I've never known why Ctrl-Q doesnt send the server a log-able event before it shuts down the client. Unfortunately, this shows you don't really understand how to effectively exploit the system that's currently in place, or how far people will go to do so, because this is false. See here for why. Raptor and Ares Fix
Montaire Lacedaemon. Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.14 04:42:00 - [11] Kai - Perhaps. But the fundamental change is that they need a way to differentiate between people trying to avoid death, and people who just go LD. This delivers that. Sure, I can log off in a Bubble, but Im still around for 15 mins to die if they want to kill me. If I try and log off, then in, then off, then in, then off, then in -- that will be avoiding the death. Once they put a mechanic in place, they can be a clear line between the innocent LD at a crowded gate and the obvious exploit.
mazzilliu Caldari Sniggerdly	Posted - 2006.11.14 04:51:00 - [12] nooooooooooooooooo........ (yay*) \o/ 1000% awesome guide to logging out
Miss Overlord Gallente EUROPEANS	Posted - 2006.11.14 05:20:00 - [13] quickest way to get CCP to act is to talk about how to use it they fix stuff real quick then
Flipidy Floo	Posted - 2006.11.14 09:32:00 - [14] But really, you can't fault people for logging their pod when there's always a lag spike after the ship blows up. At least in the old days you could fast click a planet to have a chance.... no such luck now.
Baleorg Gallente Guys of Sarcasm	Posted - 2006.11.14 09:41:00 - [15] Originally by: Xendie btw... Kresh Vladir from MDK accidentaly hit ctrl+q twice today :P well. i changed my ctrl-q to alt-q no more ctrl-q when i wanted ctrl-a :-P --- BTW: A GOOD Cache-Cleaner
Sahjahn Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.14 09:50:00 - [16] People can cheer all they like but the fact is whatever they do will almost certainly have the same effect on those that suffer a genuine crash or server disconnect. Let's see how many people are cheering when their nice new battleship gets blown to smithereens due to a server disconnect.
Zarch AlDain Friends of Everyone	Posted - 2006.11.14 09:59:00 - [17] Originally by: Montaire Kai - Perhaps. But the fundamental change is that they need a way to differentiate between people trying to avoid death, and people who just go LD. This delivers that. Sure, I can log off in a Bubble, but Im still around for 15 mins to die if they want to kill me. If I try and log off, then in, then off, then in, then off, then in -- that will be avoiding the death. Once they put a mechanic in place, they can be a clear line between the innocent LD at a crowded gate and the obvious exploit. So people pull the network cable from the back of their computer or use task manager to kill eve or soemthing instead...it's not that simple. Zarch AlDain
Wild Rho Amarr Black Omega Security	Posted - 2006.11.14 10:04:00 - [18] A flat 15minute time when you log, flagged or no would be the simplest route. Even if someone keeps logging in and out sooner or later they will have to stay logged and then the probers will have their chance. The only other option will be to leave the system/dock to escape danger. Yes people who ctd will suffer but there is no solution that won't hurt someone who ctds but stops someone who quits (either via ctrl Q or by simply unplugging their connection to make it look like a crash). I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it.
murder one Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.14 10:08:00 - [19] Originally by: Wild Rho A flat 15minute time when you log, flagged or no would be the simplest route. Even if someone keeps logging in and out sooner or later they will have to stay logged and then the probers will have their chance. The only other option will be to leave the system/dock to escape danger. Yes people who ctd will suffer but there is no solution that won't hurt someone who ctds but stops someone who quits (either via ctrl Q or by simply unplugging their connection to make it look like a crash). Why not just make it an hour? And have your pod stay where your ship is once it dies? Problem solved on both counts. Because I said so...
Alski Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.14 10:16:00 - [20] Yeah despite being one of these people who has logged in “battle” (once! And only to try and save corp assets from a retarded gate gank) I’d accept it provided.... - It can actually detect the difference between a quit and a lost connection – I live a long way from the ADSL exchange and the wiring is ancient, you can guess what happens often. - The amount of time the ship / pod remains in space is balanced very carefully based on the new game mechanics of probes coming in Revelations/Kali + real life skills, some people are already pretty dam fast with the current probes and scanners. - For the love of Ovuer, give us a an option to NOT warp when in a POS bubble, or a place to dock pod’s at least. - Give us an emergency warp button we can switch on when in a pod, or when ship is into structure that’ll warp our ejected pods (pods only) to a random planet, belt, or gate, either that or fix it so when you get ejected you don’t get lagged to death while fighting the UI to warp. If UI lag on podding can’t be fixed then make it so its not a factor. (not sure about this one at all... but its an idea, just fix the dam lag tbh) The worst possible nightmare of this new system I can imagine would be everyone flying around with a probe ship in there gangs / fleets after Revelations/Kali, losing your internet connection while flying a Carrier, getting randomly probed down and killed within a non aggressed fifteen minute countdown window by pirates who weren’t even looking for you, if that happened and a partition didn’t get it replaced, it would be big Game Over. --- (.)(.) These are boobs. No need to copy and paste them into your sig, they have already gained world domination. Sorry Bunny.
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.14 10:20:00 - [21] Edited by: Rod Blaine on 14/11/2006 10:26:15 Originally by: Wild Rho A flat 15minute time when you log, flagged or no would be the simplest route. Even if someone keeps logging in and out sooner or later they will have to stay logged and then the probers will have their chance. The only other option will be to leave the system/dock to escape danger. Yes people who ctd will suffer but there is no solution that won't hurt someone who ctds but stops someone who quits (either via ctrl Q or by simply unplugging their connection to make it look like a crash). Nah. Log off in bubble -> warped out Log back in -> log out again -> end up at safe Log back in -> warp from safe to safe or use instas to get out. Result: gatecamp/gank bypassed Conclusion: not good enuff I'd still vote for a combination fo the following: 1. Bubbles and locks count as aggro against cloaked ships snd ships with an offline pilot in them. Bubbles prevent warp-off even if you log. (stops the ctrl-q) 2. Aggro timer extended to 30 minutes (HP increase requires re-balancing for capitals). 3. If you log back in more then 10 minutes after having logged off you get slapped with a five minute recalibration timer. (stops logintraps) The only difficult part aboput this set of measures is fleshing out how to do #1 in terms of coding. But I'm sure there's a way. The only downside for npc'ers and regular ctd victims is that you get ganked when you ctd at a gate. Otherwise no difference since we can assume you log in within 10 minutes again right? Old blog
Mirirar Caldari Solstice Systems Development Concourse	Posted - 2006.11.14 10:21:00 - [22] Originally by: Alski (once! And only to try and save corp assets from a retarded gate gank) Regardless of the justification, why do you think that this particular excuse made it acceptable?
murder one Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.14 10:21:00 - [23] Originally by: Alski Yeah despite being one of these people who has logged in ôbattleö (once! And only to try and save corp assets from a retarded gate gank) IÆd accept it provided.... - It can actually detect the difference between a quit and a lost connection û I live a long way from the ADSL exchange and the wiring is ancient, you can guess what happens often. - The amount of time the ship / pod remains in space is balanced very carefully based on the new game mechanics of probes coming in Revelations/Kali + real life skills, some people are already pretty dam fast with the current probes and scanners. - For the love of Ovuer, give us a an option to NOT warp when in a POS bubble, or a place to dock podÆs at least. - Give us an emergency warp button we can switch on when in a pod, or when ship is into structure thatÆll warp our ejected pods (pods only) to a random planet, belt, or gate, either that or fix it so when you get ejected you donÆt get lagged to death while fighting the UI to warp. If UI lag on podding canÆt be fixed then make it so its not a factor. (not sure about this one at all... but its an idea, just fix the dam lag tbh) The worst possible nightmare of this new system I can imagine would be everyone flying around with a probe ship in there gangs / fleets after Revelations/Kali, losing your internet connection while flying a Carrier, getting randomly probed down and killed within a non aggressed fifteen minute countdown window by pirates who werenÆt even looking for you, if that happened and a partition didnÆt get it replaced, it would be big Game Over. I didn't really think there were too many downsides to forcing players to remain in space, but you do bring up some very good points, esp. about capital pilots etc. Because I said so...
Noluck Ned FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.14 10:30:00 - [24] Originally by: Sahjahn People can cheer all they like but the fact is whatever they do will almost certainly have the same effect on those that suffer a genuine crash or server disconnect. Let's see how many people are cheering when their nice new battleship gets blown to smithereens due to a server disconnect. What gets me about this arguement is that you would think EVE is so unstable that everybody crashes every sngle time they jump through a gate. OK we may all have had client freezes as we wait to load up, and we may all have had lag on jump in but only once every blue moon does a jump result in an actual total crash or disconnect. Fact. So to anyone who really really really did crash out: Sorry man, you have become the dupe of everyone who did it intentionally. F4T4L is Recruiting!
Alski Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.14 10:33:00 - [25] Originally by: Mirirar Originally by: Alski (once! And only to try and save corp assets from a retarded gate gank) Regardless of the justification, why do you think that this particular excuse made it acceptable? I never said it was anything like acceptable, I think logging in battle is lame, you mis-read me, but then I should have made my views clearer, I was saying I’ve done it, and even I thought it was lame. Why did I do it? Critical corp assets, corp money, my responsibility, and pure blind PANIC! And just FYI, the ship died, the pirates got some nice loot, and when I logged I was already locked down and into structure, so call it 80% panic, 20% massively ****ed-off-ed-ness. --- (.)(.) These are boobs. No need to copy and paste them into your sig, they have already gained world domination. Sorry Bunny.
Niraco79 Gallente Hunters Agency	Posted - 2006.11.14 10:39:00 - [26] what rod blaine said is one the most decent solution i ever read. The goal should be that we all fight in game not outside it. Cause Ctrl+q does not show your dedication or your uberness. Is only a way to save a ship and lose your honour. And yes poddin due UI lag is a little high chance. I never escaped one if i did not had my AP set and pushed autopilot at the right time. ________________ THE MEGA NOOB
nmwone Caldari Finite Horizon	Posted - 2006.11.14 10:46:00 - [27] I know someone probly mentioned this one before but here goes. Make all actions in game except warping create a 15 minuter aggro timer. That means jumping a gate, undocking, landing in a bubble, get shoot at by npcs, getting shoot at by players, entering a pos field, activating a miner on a roid and so on. You're playing the game, if you want to stop playing (logging off) then warp to safety and continue being safe for 15 minutes and then logoff in a valid way.
Wild Rho Amarr Black Omega Security	Posted - 2006.11.14 10:47:00 - [28] Originally by: murder one Why not just make it an hour? And have your pod stay where your ship is once it dies? Problem solved on both counts. An hour? Two hours? Honestly I'm not bothered on the specifics, I just said 15mins as that's the current time and with a good prober it's easily enough to track a ship down - will be even easier with the changes coming in. Agree with the pod thing too. Originally by: Rod Blaine Edited by: Rod Blaine on 14/11/2006 10:26:15 Nah. Log off in bubble -> warped out Log back in -> log out again -> end up at safe Log back in -> warp from safe to safe or use instas to get out. Result: gatecamp/gank bypassed Conclusion: not good enuff Fair point, in my defence I made the assumption that the issue with bubbles would be fixed as well so I didn't consider the example above. Originally by: Rod Blaine 1. Bubbles and locks count as aggro against cloaked ships snd ships with an offline pilot in them. Bubbles prevent warp-off even if you log. (stops the ctrl-q) Not sure about the aggro bit, with a flat disappear timer it wouldn't be necessary. It may also have the side affect of not allowing people to jump through a gate if they burn through the bubble due to it aggroing them. Some may think this is a good things, others wouldnt. As someone who flies frigs and prefers to take my chances burning through alot of camps, bubbled or not I'd obviously not like this little change. Biased? Yes, but then what isn't. Originally by: Rod Blaine 2. Aggro timer extended to 30 minutes (HP increase requires re-balancing for capitals). Can't argue with that tbh. Originally by: Rod Blaine 3. If you log back in more then 10 minutes after having logged off you get slapped with a five minute recalibration timer. (stops logintraps) Don't think this would stop most login traps tbh. Camps can last hours at a time and those determined to carry out login traps WILL wait the 10 minutes. It can also cause an ungodly amount of frustrations for players that crash duing a fight and now have to wait for 5/10mins before they can engage. Most fights don't last that long and those that do tend to have been as good as decided by that point (talking about the actual battle here, not the fleet maneuvering etc involved before and during it). Originally by: Rod Blaine The only difficult part aboput this set of measures is fleshing out how to do #1 in terms of coding. But I'm sure there's a way. I suspect that may not be as hard as it seems. While I don't know how it's coded exactly I'm gonna make a guess in that it just requires a quick check to see if the ships in a bubble when the event that causes the emergency warp is triggered. If the player is in a bubble the emergency warp is canceled, otherwise it procedes as normal. Originally by: Rod Blaine The only downside for npc'ers and regular ctd victims is that you get ganked when you ctd at a gate. Otherwise no difference since we can assume you log in within 10 minutes again right? Sadly the reality is there is no solution that will work fairly for folks that ctd/lag out etc that can't be exploited by people looking to avoid danger. Stating the obvious but some people seem to think the server can magically tell a real ctd from someone unplugging their connection. I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it.
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.14 11:00:00 - [29] I think you misunderstood the ten minutes timer. Only if you remain offline longer then ten (might want to make it 5 or somaybe) minutes would you get a 5 minute recalibration timer that prevents you from locking, nothing else. What that means is that a system empty ten minutes ago and not used since will be empty when you get there for all practical purposes. (well, you could logintrap using a dozen FOF Ravens but that's a bit of a whacky proposition isn't it ) So yeah, that would allow for scouting to solve the logintrap issue, but only of you scout well. Old blog
Wild Rho Amarr Black Omega Security	Posted - 2006.11.14 11:03:00 - [30] Originally by: Rod Blaine I think you misunderstood the ten minutes timer. Only if you remain offline longer then ten (might want to make it 5 or somaybe) minutes would you get a 5 minute recalibration timer that prevents you from locking, nothing else. What that means is that a system empty ten minutes ago and not used since will be empty when you get there for all practical purposes. (well, you could logintrap using a dozen FOF Ravens but that's a bit of a whacky proposition isn't it ) So yeah, that would allow for scouting to solve the logintrap issue, but only of you scout well. doh I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it.

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