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Kharakan
Amarr
GREY COUNCIL
Breidablik
   |
Posted - 2006.11.11 17:47:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Kharakan on 11/11/2006 18:02:49
Logout mechanics change! 
 Originally by: Joshua Foiritain (to Dark Shikari)
HAHAHA I KNOW YOUR ACCOUUNT NAME TIME TO DIE
this signature space is claimed in the name of eris, haha I got to him first. neeneer
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Sakura Nihil
Tabula Rasa Systems
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2006.11.11 17:50:00 -
[2]
Yup, Ovuer just promised a "when", not "if"  . We have it on video!
"Titans were never meant to be cost-effective, they're a huge ****" - Oveur |
LordAdmiralAsriel
Amarr
I.D.I.O.T.
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Posted - 2006.11.11 17:51:00 -
[3]
In which way are they beiing changend?
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Kharakan
Amarr
GREY COUNCIL
Breidablik
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Posted - 2006.11.11 17:51:00 -
[4]
Let's just watch the goons *cry* =]
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain (to Dark Shikari)
HAHAHA I KNOW YOUR ACCOUUNT NAME TIME TO DIE
this signature space is claimed in the name of eris, haha I got to him first. neeneer
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Elaron
Minmatar
Legio Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.11.11 17:53:00 -
[5]
They didn't say. The current mechanics almost encourage lame gameplay, so they are going to explore methods of making them less lame. I doubt they have anything more than hazy ideas so far, so it's probably better that they didn't give any specifics.
Elaron
It is never too late to correct the mistakes of the past. |
Montaire
Lacedaemon.
Sparta Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.14 04:04:00 -
[6]
With the new Scannign tech there is a real simple fix, truth be told.
Extend the time your ship stays in space. Let it warp off, by all means. But keep it there for 15 mins if un-agressed, 30 with agression of any kind (Bieng shot at, or shooting at someone)
Wouldnt hurt NPC'ers.
Wouldnt hurt people who LD.
I've never known why Ctrl-Q doesnt send the server a log-able event before it shuts down the client.
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aggiedog
Kaos Order
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Posted - 2006.11.14 04:13:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Montaire
With the new Scannign tech there is a real simple fix, truth be told.
Extend the time your ship stays in space. Let it warp off, by all means. But keep it there for 15 mins if un-agressed, 30 with agression of any kind (Bieng shot at, or shooting at someone)
Wouldnt hurt NPC'ers.
Wouldnt hurt people who LD.
I've never known why Ctrl-Q doesnt send the server a log-able event before it shuts down the client.
I agree, just let your ship stay there for a certain time so the enemy can clean up and probe you. Though, there is the problem of people logging on and off, on and off. Though I guess it is a matter of who gets bored first. Then again, this is a good stalling tactic when waiting for reinforcements.
I do it as a problem for npc'ers. If there is a real dis
---------------------------------------------
Forum Wars!...Because the battlefeild is laggy. |
Aaron Static
Deep Space Consortium
Maelstrom Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.14 04:18:00 -
[8]
They will still log off to save their pods with the new scanning, but this is excellent news!
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Xendie
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.14 04:22:00 -
[9]
woot finally.
btw... Kresh Vladir from MDK accidentaly hit ctrl+q twice today :P
Quote:
Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Kai Lae
Gallente
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.11.14 04:29:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Montaire
With the new Scannign tech there is a real simple fix, truth be told.
Extend the time your ship stays in space. Let it warp off, by all means. But keep it there for 15 mins if un-agressed, 30 with agression of any kind (Bieng shot at, or shooting at someone)
Wouldnt hurt NPC'ers.
Wouldnt hurt people who LD.
I've never known why Ctrl-Q doesnt send the server a log-able event before it shuts down the client.
Unfortunately, this shows you don't really understand how to effectively exploit the system that's currently in place, or how far people will go to do so, because this is false. See here for why.
Raptor and Ares Fix |
Montaire
Lacedaemon.
Sparta Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.14 04:42:00 -
[11]
Kai -
Perhaps. But the fundamental change is that they need a way to differentiate between people trying to avoid death, and people who just go LD.
This delivers that. Sure, I can log off in a Bubble, but Im still around for 15 mins to die if they want to kill me. If I try and log off, then in, then off, then in, then off, then in -- that will be avoiding the death.
Once they put a mechanic in place, they can be a clear line between the innocent LD at a crowded gate and the obvious exploit.
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mazzilliu
Caldari
Sniggerdly
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Posted - 2006.11.14 04:51:00 -
[12]
nooooooooooooooooo........
(yay*) \o/
1000% awesome guide to logging out |
Miss Overlord
Gallente
EUROPEANS
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Posted - 2006.11.14 05:20:00 -
[13]
quickest way to get CCP to act is to talk about how to use it they fix stuff real quick then
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Flipidy Floo
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Posted - 2006.11.14 09:32:00 -
[14]
But really, you can't fault people for logging their pod when there's always a lag spike after the ship blows up.
At least in the old days you could fast click a planet to have a chance.... no such luck now.
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Baleorg
Gallente
Guys of Sarcasm
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Posted - 2006.11.14 09:41:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Xendie
btw... Kresh Vladir from MDK accidentaly hit ctrl+q twice today :P
well. i changed my ctrl-q to alt-q no more ctrl-q when i wanted ctrl-a :-P
---
BTW: A GOOD Cache-Cleaner |
Sahjahn
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.14 09:50:00 -
[16]
People can cheer all they like but the fact is whatever they do will almost certainly have the same effect on those that suffer a genuine crash or server disconnect. Let's see how many people are cheering when their nice new battleship gets blown to smithereens due to a server disconnect.
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Zarch AlDain
Friends of Everyone
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Posted - 2006.11.14 09:59:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Montaire
Kai -
Perhaps. But the fundamental change is that they need a way to differentiate between people trying to avoid death, and people who just go LD.
This delivers that. Sure, I can log off in a Bubble, but Im still around for 15 mins to die if they want to kill me. If I try and log off, then in, then off, then in, then off, then in -- that will be avoiding the death.
Once they put a mechanic in place, they can be a clear line between the innocent LD at a crowded gate and the obvious exploit.
So people pull the network cable from the back of their computer or use task manager to kill eve or soemthing instead...it's not that simple.
Zarch AlDain
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Wild Rho
Amarr
Black Omega Security
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Posted - 2006.11.14 10:04:00 -
[18]
A flat 15minute time when you log, flagged or no would be the simplest route. Even if someone keeps logging in and out sooner or later they will have to stay logged and then the probers will have their chance.
The only other option will be to leave the system/dock to escape danger.
Yes people who ctd will suffer but there is no solution that won't hurt someone who ctds but stops someone who quits (either via ctrl Q or by simply unplugging their connection to make it look like a crash).
I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it.
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murder one
Gallente
CRICE Corporation
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.14 10:08:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Wild Rho
A flat 15minute time when you log, flagged or no would be the simplest route. Even if someone keeps logging in and out sooner or later they will have to stay logged and then the probers will have their chance.
The only other option will be to leave the system/dock to escape danger.
Yes people who ctd will suffer but there is no solution that won't hurt someone who ctds but stops someone who quits (either via ctrl Q or by simply unplugging their connection to make it look like a crash).
Why not just make it an hour? And have your pod stay where your ship is once it dies? Problem solved on both counts.
Because I said so...
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Alski
Gallente
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.14 10:16:00 -
[20]
Yeah despite being one of these people who has logged in “battle” (once! And only to try and save corp assets from a retarded gate gank) I’d accept it provided....
- It can actually detect the difference between a quit and a lost connection – I live a long way from the ADSL exchange and the wiring is ancient, you can guess what happens often.
- The amount of time the ship / pod remains in space is balanced very carefully based on the new game mechanics of probes coming in Revelations/Kali + real life skills, some people are already pretty dam fast with the current probes and scanners.
- For the love of Ovuer, give us a an option to NOT warp when in a POS bubble, or a place to dock pod’s at least.
- Give us an emergency warp button we can switch on when in a pod, or when ship is into structure that’ll warp our ejected pods (pods only) to a random planet, belt, or gate, either that or fix it so when you get ejected you don’t get lagged to death while fighting the UI to warp. If UI lag on podding can’t be fixed then make it so its not a factor.
(not sure about this one at all... but its an idea, just fix the dam lag tbh)
The worst possible nightmare of this new system I can imagine would be everyone flying around with a probe ship in there gangs / fleets after Revelations/Kali, losing your internet connection while flying a Carrier, getting randomly probed down and killed within a non aggressed fifteen minute countdown window by pirates who weren’t even looking for you, if that happened and a partition didn’t get it replaced, it would be big Game Over.
---
(.)(.) These are boobs. No need to copy and paste them into your sig, they have already gained world domination. Sorry Bunny. |
Rod Blaine
Evolution
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.14 10:20:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Rod Blaine on 14/11/2006 10:26:15
Originally by: Wild Rho
A flat 15minute time when you log, flagged or no would be the simplest route. Even if someone keeps logging in and out sooner or later they will have to stay logged and then the probers will have their chance.
The only other option will be to leave the system/dock to escape danger.
Yes people who ctd will suffer but there is no solution that won't hurt someone who ctds but stops someone who quits (either via ctrl Q or by simply unplugging their connection to make it look like a crash).
Nah.
Log off in bubble -> warped out
Log back in -> log out again -> end up at safe
Log back in -> warp from safe to safe or use instas to get out.
Result: gatecamp/gank bypassed
Conclusion: not good enuff
I'd still vote for a combination fo the following:
1. Bubbles and locks count as aggro against cloaked ships snd ships with an offline pilot in them. Bubbles prevent warp-off even if you log.
(stops the ctrl-q)
2. Aggro timer extended to 30 minutes (HP increase requires re-balancing for capitals).
3. If you log back in more then 10 minutes after having logged off you get slapped with a five minute recalibration timer. (stops logintraps)
The only *difficult* part aboput this set of measures is fleshing out how to do #1 in terms of coding. But I'm sure there's a way.
The only downside for npc'ers and regular ctd victims is that you get ganked when you ctd at a gate. Otherwise no difference since we can assume you log in within 10 minutes again right?
Old blog |
Mirirar
Caldari
Solstice Systems Development Concourse
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Posted - 2006.11.14 10:21:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Alski
(once! And only to try and save corp assets from a retarded gate gank)
Regardless of the justification, why do you think that this particular excuse made it acceptable?
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murder one
Gallente
CRICE Corporation
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.14 10:21:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Alski
Yeah despite being one of these people who has logged in ôbattleö (once! And only to try and save corp assets from a retarded gate gank) IÆd accept it provided....
- It can actually detect the difference between a quit and a lost connection û I live a long way from the ADSL exchange and the wiring is ancient, you can guess what happens often.
- The amount of time the ship / pod remains in space is balanced very carefully based on the new game mechanics of probes coming in Revelations/Kali + real life skills, some people are already pretty dam fast with the current probes and scanners.
- For the love of Ovuer, give us a an option to NOT warp when in a POS bubble, or a place to dock podÆs at least.
- Give us an emergency warp button we can switch on when in a pod, or when ship is into structure thatÆll warp our ejected pods (pods only) to a random planet, belt, or gate, either that or fix it so when you get ejected you donÆt get lagged to death while fighting the UI to warp. If UI lag on podding canÆt be fixed then make it so its not a factor.
(not sure about this one at all... but its an idea, just fix the dam lag tbh)
The worst possible nightmare of this new system I can imagine would be everyone flying around with a probe ship in there gangs / fleets after Revelations/Kali, losing your internet connection while flying a Carrier, getting randomly probed down and killed within a non aggressed fifteen minute countdown window by pirates who werenÆt even looking for you, if that happened and a partition didnÆt get it replaced, it would be big Game Over.
I didn't really think there were too many downsides to forcing players to remain in space, but you do bring up some very good points, esp. about capital pilots etc.
Because I said so...
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Noluck Ned
FATAL REVELATIONS
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.14 10:30:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Sahjahn
People can cheer all they like but the fact is whatever they do will almost certainly have the same effect on those that suffer a genuine crash or server disconnect. Let's see how many people are cheering when their nice new battleship gets blown to smithereens due to a server disconnect.
What gets me about this arguement is that you would think EVE is so unstable that everybody crashes every sngle time they jump through a gate.
OK we may all have had client freezes as we wait to load up, and we may all have had lag on jump in but only once every blue moon does a jump result in an actual total crash or disconnect. Fact.
So to anyone who really really really did crash out: Sorry man, you have become the dupe of everyone who did it intentionally.
F4T4L is Recruiting! |
Alski
Gallente
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Freelancer Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.14 10:33:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Mirirar
Originally by: Alski
(once! And only to try and save corp assets from a retarded gate gank)
Regardless of the justification, why do you think that this particular excuse made it acceptable?
I never said it was anything like acceptable, I think logging in battle is lame, you mis-read me, but then I should have made my views clearer, I was saying I’ve done it, and even I thought it was lame.
Why did I do it? Critical corp assets, corp money, my responsibility, and pure blind PANIC! 
And just FYI, the ship died, the pirates got some nice loot, and when I logged I was already locked down and into structure, so call it 80% panic, 20% massively ****ed-off-ed-ness. 
---
(.)(.) These are boobs. No need to copy and paste them into your sig, they have already gained world domination. Sorry Bunny. |
Niraco79
Gallente
Hunters Agency
|
Posted - 2006.11.14 10:39:00 -
[26]
what rod blaine said is one the most decent solution i ever read.
The goal should be that we all fight in game not outside it. Cause Ctrl+q does not show your dedication or your uberness. Is only a way to save a ship and lose your honour.
And yes poddin due UI lag is a little high chance. I never escaped one if i did not had my AP set and pushed autopilot at the right time.
________________
THE MEGA NOOB |
nmwone
Caldari
Finite Horizon
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Posted - 2006.11.14 10:46:00 -
[27]
I know someone probly mentioned this one before but here goes.
Make all actions in game except warping create a 15 minuter aggro timer. That means jumping a gate, undocking, landing in a bubble, get shoot at by npcs, getting shoot at by players, entering a pos field, activating a miner on a roid and so on.
You're playing the game, if you want to stop playing (logging off) then warp to safety and continue being safe for 15 minutes and then logoff in a valid way.
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Wild Rho
Amarr
Black Omega Security
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Posted - 2006.11.14 10:47:00 -
[28]
Originally by: murder one
Why not just make it an hour? And have your pod stay where your ship is once it dies? Problem solved on both counts.
An hour? Two hours? Honestly I'm not bothered on the specifics, I just said 15mins as that's the current time and with a good prober it's easily enough to track a ship down - will be even easier with the changes coming in.
Agree with the pod thing too.
Originally by: Rod Blaine
Edited by: Rod Blaine on 14/11/2006 10:26:15
Nah.
Log off in bubble -> warped out
Log back in -> log out again -> end up at safe
Log back in -> warp from safe to safe or use instas to get out.
Result: gatecamp/gank bypassed
Conclusion: not good enuff
Fair point, in my defence I made the assumption that the issue with bubbles would be fixed as well so I didn't consider the example above.
Originally by: Rod Blaine
1. Bubbles and locks count as aggro against cloaked ships snd ships with an offline pilot in them. Bubbles prevent warp-off even if you log.
(stops the ctrl-q)
Not sure about the aggro bit, with a flat disappear timer it wouldn't be necessary. It may also have the side affect of not allowing people to jump through a gate if they burn through the bubble due to it aggroing them.
Some may think this is a good things, others wouldnt. As someone who flies frigs and prefers to take my chances burning through alot of camps, bubbled or not I'd obviously not like this little change. Biased? Yes, but then what isn't.
Originally by: Rod Blaine
2. Aggro timer extended to 30 minutes (HP increase requires re-balancing for capitals).
Can't argue with that tbh.
Originally by: Rod Blaine
3. If you log back in more then 10 minutes after having logged off you get slapped with a five minute recalibration timer. (stops logintraps)
Don't think this would stop most login traps tbh. Camps can last hours at a time and those determined to carry out login traps WILL wait the 10 minutes.
It can also cause an ungodly amount of frustrations for players that crash duing a fight and now have to wait for 5/10mins before they can engage. Most fights don't last that long and those that do tend to have been as good as decided by that point (talking about the actual battle here, not the fleet maneuvering etc involved before and during it).
Originally by: Rod Blaine
The only *difficult* part aboput this set of measures is fleshing out how to do #1 in terms of coding. But I'm sure there's a way.
I suspect that may not be as hard as it seems. While I don't know how it's coded exactly I'm gonna make a guess in that it just requires a quick check to see if the ships in a bubble when the event that causes the emergency warp is triggered.
If the player is in a bubble the emergency warp is canceled, otherwise it procedes as normal.
Originally by: Rod Blaine
The only downside for npc'ers and regular ctd victims is that you get ganked when you ctd at a gate. Otherwise no difference since we can assume you log in within 10 minutes again right?
Sadly the reality is there is no solution that will work fairly for folks that ctd/lag out etc that can't be exploited by people looking to avoid danger.
Stating the obvious but some people seem to think the server can magically tell a real ctd from someone unplugging their connection.
I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it.
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Rod Blaine
Evolution
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.11.14 11:00:00 -
[29]
I think you misunderstood the ten minutes timer.
Only if you remain offline *longer* then ten (might want to make it 5 or somaybe) minutes would you get a 5 minute recalibration timer that prevents you from locking, nothing else.
What that means is that a system empty ten minutes ago and not used since will be empty when you get there for all practical purposes. (well, you could logintrap using a dozen FOF Ravens but that's a bit of a whacky proposition isn't it  )
So yeah, that would allow for scouting to solve the logintrap issue, but only of you scout well.
Old blog |
Wild Rho
Amarr
Black Omega Security
|
Posted - 2006.11.14 11:03:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Rod Blaine
I think you misunderstood the ten minutes timer.
Only if you remain offline *longer* then ten (might want to make it 5 or somaybe) minutes would you get a 5 minute recalibration timer that prevents you from locking, nothing else.
What that means is that a system empty ten minutes ago and not used since will be empty when you get there for all practical purposes. (well, you could logintrap using a dozen FOF Ravens but that's a bit of a whacky proposition isn't it )
So yeah, that would allow for scouting to solve the logintrap issue, but only of you scout well.
doh 
I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it.
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Hohenheim OfLight
Pegasus Mining and Securities
R0ADKILL
|
Posted - 2006.11.14 11:13:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Noluck Ned
Originally by: Sahjahn
People can cheer all they like but the fact is whatever they do will almost certainly have the same effect on those that suffer a genuine crash or server disconnect. Let's see how many people are cheering when their nice new battleship gets blown to smithereens due to a server disconnect.
What gets me about this arguement is that you would think EVE is so unstable that everybody crashes every sngle time they jump through a gate.
OK we may all have had client freezes as we wait to load up, and we may all have had lag on jump in but only once every blue moon does a jump result in an actual total crash or disconnect. Fact.
So to anyone who really really really did crash out: Sorry man, you have become the dupe of everyone who did it intentionally.
Actual i crash out rather a lot mainly at gates but i must admit its when running two copies of eve on the same pc, also gui lag on ship death needs sorting before any thin gchanges tbh its crap how you get stuck not beeing able to do any thing if your not able to pilot your ship then it should be imune just like when you undock.
----------------------------------------------
Gone but not forgotten
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Zell
Caldari
The Black Raptors
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Posted - 2006.11.14 11:22:00 -
[32]
HaH!
Ra/goons just lost cache.....again
"Ginger Magician is just a nublet. I've met more people ingame that have laughed about him, than anyone else in Eve."
"A coward dies a thousand times, the brave die just once.." |
kurtz abraham
Thief Hunters of Orion's Alliance
Safe And Fun Environment
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Posted - 2006.11.14 11:31:00 -
[33]
Edited by: kurtz abraham on 14/11/2006 11:31:34
How about making it so that ship doesn't warp off at all for x minutes... but the ship is invulnerable for that period, this gives the CTD person time to log back in and continue to fight, if they have logged off with CTRL+Q then after x minutes they can be fired upon.
Just a thought.
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Wild Rho
Amarr
Black Omega Security
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Posted - 2006.11.14 11:36:00 -
[34]
Originally by: kurtz abraham
Edited by: kurtz abraham on 14/11/2006 11:31:34
How about making it so that ship doesn't warp off at all for x minutes... but the ship is invulnerable for that period, this gives the CTD person time to log back in and continue to fight, if they have logged off with CTRL+Q then after x minutes they can be fired upon.
Just a thought.
Easily abused in fleet battles. All the primary has to do is be quick to log to be invulnerable and log back in when the enemy switch targets.
I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it.
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Brixer
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Posted - 2006.11.14 11:36:00 -
[35]
Here is a better one:
log off and log in an alt. You're not even warping away.
You just disapear.
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Ghen
White Wolves Defence league
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Posted - 2006.11.14 11:53:00 -
[36]
I don't know about keeping every ship in space for extended periods of time, it'd just mean you couldn't log off in space because every single corp or alliance with a somewhat competent covops pilot would kill you no matter what.
Instead take something from other games and introduce an additional way to log off, it's probably been mentioned before:
1. You choose to log off, you will be staring at your client for 30-45 seconds or so, unable to act except to cancel the logout process (all active modules will be turned off during the process and you'll get a big button telling you how long it takes until you're gone, if you get shot/etc the process is canceled as well). This option is chosen from a menu.
2. You crash/close the client/ctrl-q/etc/etc; your ship warps off to 1 million km and stays in space for 2-5 minutes.
Then just have active aggression timers apply after both ways and you're set. If you really need to log off you can do it properly and be reasonably safe, if you do it the other way to avoid death there's a good chance you'll still die.
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Noluck Ned
FATAL REVELATIONS
Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.11.14 12:00:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Brixer
Here is a better one:
log off and log in an alt. You're not even warping away.
You just disapear.
Thanks for sharing that info, all the other lamers needed to know that too.
F4T4L is Recruiting! |
Ilmonstre
Minmatar
TYRANTS
|
Posted - 2006.11.14 12:00:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Ghen
I don't know about keeping every ship in space for extended periods of time, it'd just mean you couldn't log off in space because every single corp or alliance with a somewhat competent covops pilot would kill you no matter what.
Instead take something from other games and introduce an additional way to log off, it's probably been mentioned before:
1. You choose to log off, you will be staring at your client for 30-45 seconds or so, unable to act except to cancel the logout process (all active modules will be turned off during the process and you'll get a big button telling you how long it takes until you're gone, if you get shot/etc the process is canceled as well). This option is chosen from a menu.
2. You crash/close the client/ctrl-q/etc/etc; your ship warps off to 1 million km and stays in space for 2-5 minutes.
Then just have active aggression timers apply after both ways and you're set. If you really need to log off you can do it properly and be reasonably safe, if you do it the other way to avoid death there's a good chance you'll still die.
the thing that just needs to change is that you shoudl still be able to scramble someone even when he/she has logged out so you can still hold the ship on its place so you can not avoid a gatecamp by logging off.
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Gaven Blands
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Posted - 2006.11.14 12:19:00 -
[39]
Fixing logoff is certainly easier than fixing the reasons why people have resorted to it that's for sure.
Fixing the reasons for it could have helped repopulate low sec. But no. You're getting what you asked for, I hope you like it.
Put home addresses in loss and killmails. Maybe then the community will find a way to control themselves a bit better. |
Rod Blaine
Evolution
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.14 12:25:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Gaven Blands
Fixing logoff is certainly easier than fixing the reasons why people have resorted to it that's for sure.
Fixing the reasons for it could have helped repopulate low sec. But no. You're getting what you asked for, I hope you like it.
We definately will.
People that use ctrl-q for their survival have no reason to be in low sec space in the first place.
And I don't agree with the popular idea that as many people as possible shouild be in low sec anyway. Those people that want to should, those that don't shouldn't. People would do good however to not neccesarily listen to the doompreaching idiots in npc corpchats tho.
I wrtoe this neat guide that tells you how to get into 0.0 and stay there as a realtive new player (new to low sec/0.0). It's fairly easy, it just has to be something you'd like doing. It also doesn't involve getting blown up all the time at gatecamps. Even after more then three years I've still got to die at a gamtecamp for the first time.
Old blog |
Karoth Tyu
FATAL REVELATIONS
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.14 12:35:00 -
[41]
Make scan probes work faster, make log out times longer, and logging in an alt shouldn't make your main disappear from space.
How hard would something like this be to implement, really?
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Taka
Caldari
Quam Singulari
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.14 12:56:00 -
[42]
tbh i wud rather be ****ed off bcos someone has logged off in a bubble to save his ship/pod than me being ****ed off that i got disconnected from my connection and by the time ive logged back in found out that ive had my ship and pod blown up without aggression. there are quite a few people in this game with "unstable" connections...i being one of them. Dont come back with "get adsl then". Yeah i wud if i cud...but i cant get it where i live...and im sure thats why other people are only using 56k...bcos they cant recieve it where they live.
People who log off to save thier pod/ship are lamers....they shud just face up to getting killed. They are ruining the game for other people, especially us 56k'ers. One of the ideas mentioned was making landing in bubbles and aggression...it wud probably be better if it didnt make everyone in the bubble aggresed...but they got an aggression timer so if they wanted/cud they cud try get back to gate to jump back thru. the other ideas are just gonna make it more painfull for people who have real problems with thier computers/connection.
--------------------
My Sig Got Podded!!
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Becham
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Posted - 2006.11.14 13:04:00 -
[43]
Quote:
"People that use ctrl-q for their survival have no reason to be in low sec space in the first place."
Sure they have a reason. Why else would they be there? Fixing this should be top priority for CCP though. What an awful exploit to have sitting there in a PVP or PVE game. I know of no other game where you can just unplug to avoid death.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.14 13:47:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Noluck Ned
Originally by: Sahjahn
People can cheer all they like but the fact is whatever they do will almost certainly have the same effect on those that suffer a genuine crash or server disconnect. Let's see how many people are cheering when their nice new battleship gets blown to smithereens due to a server disconnect.
What gets me about this arguement is that you would think EVE is so unstable that everybody crashes every sngle time they jump through a gate.
OK we may all have had client freezes as we wait to load up, and we may all have had lag on jump in but only once every blue moon does a jump result in an actual total crash or disconnect. Fact.
So to anyone who really really really did crash out: Sorry man, you have become the dupe of everyone who did it intentionally.
DC for a lot of reasons I see every day in my corporation, during missions, in high space, not so crowded systems. So none of us is using ctrl-q.
For example I often have total frezee up of the system for overload of the firewall when some retarded hacker or gnutella user ping it multiple time in 1 second. And that require reset button e reboot of the system.
Or the misterious "disconnected for inactiviity" while in station, 5 tryes to complete log in as I was DC every time by EVE.
Be very careful before penalizing this kind of situation.
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Professional Troll
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Posted - 2006.11.14 13:58:00 -
[45]
My money says the fix is a timer to log back in, cause the only real serious exploit is the log-out/log-in cyclical one, and a few minutes delay to the log-in would allow the other person/people to probe out the logger.
Look at me! Look at me!
*Snip* Please don't bypass the profanity filter. -ReverendM ([email protected]) |
Malachon Draco
eXceed Inc.
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.14 14:05:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Rod Blaine
I think you misunderstood the ten minutes timer.
Only if you remain offline *longer* then ten (might want to make it 5 or somaybe) minutes would you get a 5 minute recalibration timer that prevents you from locking, nothing else.
What that means is that a system empty ten minutes ago and not used since will be empty when you get there for all practical purposes. (well, you could logintrap using a dozen FOF Ravens but that's a bit of a whacky proposition isn't it )
So yeah, that would allow for scouting to solve the logintrap issue, but only of you scout well.
Sounds good enough, then we don't have to argue about anyone using login traps or not
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Sebo Darrens
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.14 22:07:00 -
[47]
Some good replies so far. I suggest an addition:
- Log-in queue for logging in to a specific system. Don't let more than 1 pilot every 10 seconds or so log in in a system.. may be a problem while node crashes still exist, but would also help prevent node crashes, at least in the SE corner of the map *cough*
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Awox
Finite Horizon
The Red Skull
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Posted - 2006.11.14 23:05:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Alski
Yeah despite being one of these people who has logged in ôbattleö (once! And only to try and save corp assets from a retarded gate gank) IÆd accept it provided....
Stop trying to justify it. You should have had your corpmates help you by scouting and maybe even nuetralizing the threat.
Originally by: Alski
- It can actually detect the difference between a quit and a lost connection û I live a long way from the ADSL exchange and the wiring is ancient, you can guess what happens often.
Bad luck tbh, just like in all other online games? Maybe if your connection isn't so good instead of holding back the honest gamers you should play a turn-based game with saves? :P
Originally by: Alski
- The amount of time the ship / pod remains in space is balanced very carefully based on the new game mechanics of probes coming in Revelations/Kali + real life skills, some people are already pretty dam fast with the current probes and scanners.
If I want to run around 0.0 by myself in an Interceptor or Cruiser I should NOT have to worry about people logging off and if they do I should NOT need a covert ops vessel just to probe them out.
Even if I did have a covert ops vessel they would just log in and out repeatidly to move their ship so they cannot be found (which is perfectly legal in CCP's eyes)
Originally by: Alski
- For the love of Ovuer, give us a an option to NOT warp when in a POS bubble, or a place to dock podÆs at least.
Yeah, because people don't hide enough in a POS as it is...
If the majority of EVE weren't pussies I'd agree with you on this but with the current POS interface having logged off ships would just clutter up a POS.
Originally by: Alski
- Give us an emergency warp button we can switch on when in a pod, or when ship is into structure thatÆll warp our ejected pods (pods only) to a random planet, belt, or gate, either that or fix it so when you get ejected you donÆt get lagged to death while fighting the UI to warp. If UI lag on podding canÆt be fixed then make it so its not a factor.
(not sure about this one at all... but its an idea, just fix the dam lag tbh)
Up until a few days ago I had a crappy internet connection but spamming warp to on the overview always managed to get my pod out.. you just gotta be quick is all.
Originally by: Alski
The worst possible nightmare of this new system I can imagine would be everyone flying around with a probe ship in there gangs / fleets after Revelations/Kali, losing your internet connection while flying a Carrier, getting randomly probed down and killed within a non aggressed fifteen minute countdown window by pirates who werenÆt even looking for you, if that happened and a partition didnÆt get it replaced, it would be big Game Over.
Yeah, because only pirates attack people...
I wish CCP had the balls to police their game. They probably prefer the income to having a decent game. |
DrAtomic
Atomic Heroes
Forces of Freedom
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Posted - 2006.11.15 00:40:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Aaron Static
They will still log off to save their pods with the new scanning, but this is excellent news!
Not if they leave the pod out in space as well, i dont see a reason no to actually.
-----------------------------------------------
The BIG Lottery |
Anonymous Coward
Gallente
Panopticon Citadel
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Posted - 2006.11.15 02:23:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Rod Blaine
People that use ctrl-q for their survival have no reason to be in low sec space in the first place.
So I'm sure the BoB members that ctrl-q will be kicked or reprimanded, right?
Right.
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baaaaal
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Posted - 2006.11.15 02:43:00 -
[51]
i think nodes dieing would need fixing before logoski no?
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Alski
Gallente
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.15 02:45:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Awox
stuff.
blahblah.
more stuff.
boo hoo.
there is no RL.
stating the obvious.
You don’t honestly expect me to respond to any of that do you?
That was absolutely the worst case of incomprehension and reasoning I’ve ever seen on these forums, not to mention reading what you only want to hear.
Tell ya what, why don’t ya try reading everything I said, very very slowly, contemplate each word individual if you must, then post another rebuttal. One with a bit more reason, then I’ll respond in a meaningfull way.
Kthxgbye.
---
(.)(.) These are boobs. No need to copy and paste them into your sig, they have already gained world domination. Sorry Bunny. |
Murukan
Minmatar
The Priory
Shroud Of Darkness
|
Posted - 2006.11.15 03:31:00 -
[53]
TBH i wish they would just make it so if you log out in a ****in dictor bubble you stay there until you're un agressed.
Manlove by Zaphod Jones
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Awox
Finite Horizon
The Red Skull
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Posted - 2006.11.15 03:34:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Alski
Originally by: Awox
stuff.
blahblah.
more stuff.
boo hoo.
there is no RL.
stating the obvious.
You donÆt honestly expect me to respond to any of that do you?
That was absolutely the worst case of incomprehension and reasoning IÆve ever seen on these forums, not to mention reading what you only want to hear.
Tell ya what, why donÆt ya try reading everything I said, very very slowly, contemplate each word individual if you must, then post another rebuttal. One with a bit more reason, then IÆll respond in a meaningfull way.
Kthxgbye.
Back aat you. READ my post. Kthxgbye.
Or did I just cut your bull**** post in half?
I wish CCP had the balls to police their game. They probably prefer the income to having a decent game. |
Rumbaar
Solitary Forsaken
|
Posted - 2006.11.15 03:53:00 -
[55]
15 minutes ... 30 minutes ... bah!
What happens when I jump into a mission and my connection drops or the node dies? My ship sits there as the rats destroy my ship?
No thank you. I hope this change, if implemented, doesn't hurt me a non logout user, just a simple mission runner...
So I'm not sure of the specific, as none are posted in this thread, but there needs to be clear difference between network drop/ISP issue or whatever before implementation. The EVE servers themselves even get ISP connection issues...
___________________
Custom banner? Click above or EVEmail |
Anonymous Coward
Gallente
Panopticon Citadel
|
Posted - 2006.11.15 03:57:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Sebo Darrens
- Log-in queue for logging in to a specific system. Don't let more than 1 pilot every 10 seconds or so log in in a system.. may be a problem while node crashes still exist, but would also help prevent node crashes, at least in the SE corner of the map *cough*
Perhaps if you're having problems with node crashes in the south, you should tell your allies to stop trying to intentionally do it.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=417844&page=5#122
Sexorella hotz > crash this ******* node, play the goon game...
Marneous Calgar > or we will be spending months fighting over that system
Light Darkness > 85 IN HERE AND NOONE INTEREST IT THAT WE LOOSE POSES HERE
General Dynasty > 19 IN GANG IF YOU ARE NOT IN GANG PACK YOUR **** UP AND LEAVE ALLIANCE
General Dynasty > I ****IN SERIOUS
The ArchWarder > WE NEED NEED EVERYBODY WE CAN GET TO GET ONTO A CHEAP CRUISER THAT CAN DEPLOY 5 DRONES ( lights meds what ever ) AND GET INTO RYC ASAP WE ARE GONA TRASH THIS SFKIN NODDE
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Nev Clavain
Wise Guys
Rogue Method Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.15 04:01:00 -
[57]
Originally by: aggiedog
Originally by: Montaire
With the new Scannign tech there is a real simple fix, truth be told.
Extend the time your ship stays in space. Let it warp off, by all means. But keep it there for 15 mins if un-agressed, 30 with agression of any kind (Bieng shot at, or shooting at someone)
Wouldnt hurt NPC'ers.
Wouldnt hurt people who LD.
I've never known why Ctrl-Q doesnt send the server a log-able event before it shuts down the client.
I agree, just let your ship stay there for a certain time so the enemy can clean up and probe you. Though, there is the problem of people logging on and off, on and off. Though I guess it is a matter of who gets bored first. Then again, this is a good stalling tactic when waiting for reinforcements.
I do it as a problem for npc'ers. If there is a real dis
Timer Doesn't work. The problem is far deeper. The way the client, and I am assuming the server is setup any timer you put on can be circumvented using log tactics. Not going into more details for obvious reasons. Suffice to say that timer or no timer, ships can be made to dissappear from space within about 30 seconds regardless of where they are what they are being scrambled by; whatever.
Sig removed. Please keep sigs to 400x120 pixels and 24000 bytes in size or less. -Kaemonn |
Alski
Gallente
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Freelancer Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.15 04:06:00 -
[58]
Very will, if you insist on holding up that retarded response, I wouldent, I have more self respect than that. here ya go...
Originally by: Awox
Originally by: Alski
Yeah despite being one of these people who has logged in “battle” (once! And only to try and save corp assets from a retarded gate gank) I’d accept it provided....
Stop trying to justify it. You should have had your corpmates help you by scouting and maybe even nuetralizing the threat.
Well duh, it wasn’t an option.
PS: see my other reply on the 1st page.
Originally by: Alski
- It can actually detect the difference between a quit and a lost connection – I live a long way from the ADSL exchange and the wiring is ancient, you can guess what happens often.
Originally by: Awox
Bad luck tbh, just like in all other online games? Maybe if your connection isn't so good instead of holding back the honest gamers you should play a turn-based game with saves? :P
- Lots of people have connection stability issues, this is accounted for in other games so it doesn’t harm either the player, or any others playing the game.
- How exactly does better detection of the log off exploit constitute “holding back the honest gamers”, it doesn’t does it.
- As for the “you should play turn-based game” comment, why don’t you play a different game if your clearly so upset with Eve (see your sig, your post history, etc)
Originally by: Alski
- The amount of time the ship / pod remains in space is balanced very carefully based on the new game mechanics of probes coming in Revelations/Kali + real life skills, some people are already pretty dam fast with the current probes and scanners.
Originally by: Awox
If I want to run around 0.0 by myself in an Interceptor or Cruiser I should NOT have to worry about people logging off and if they do I should NOT need a covert ops vessel just to probe them out.
- Your right, you shouldn’t, that’s why me and most others here support the idea of a change.
Originally by: Awox
Even if I did have a covert ops vessel they would just log in and out repeatidly to move their ship so they cannot be found (which is perfectly legal in CCP's eyes)
- which should be fixed as well, however you seem to have just inserted your own random comment in here that has nothing to do with what I said, I was merely stating that the new system will have to be balanced to take account of the facts that people have RL reasons and need to log in space sometimes when not in combat, esp. in 0.0 where it can be a long journey to the outpost, and because people lose internet connection through no fault of there own, or there PC / Eve crashes, in such cases it would be wrong for a ship to remain in space indefinitely because that introduces an in-game penalty for having a life, or events outside of your control.
Originally by: Alski
- For the love of Ovuer, give us a an option to NOT warp when in a POS bubble, or a place to dock pod’s at least.
Originally by: Awox
Yeah, because people don't hide enough in a POS as it is...
If the majority of EVE weren't pussies I'd agree with you on this but with the current POS interface having logged off ships would just clutter up a POS.
That’s just a load of *******s, you’ve clearly never lived in a POS in 0.0, when your done for the night and need to log, your pod warps outside of the bubble with the standard log out timer, in that time any hostile with probes can find you and kill you while you are out of game and completely defenceless, if part of the new changes are to include a longer log out timer, coupled with the better, much faster probe and scanning system, that’s clearly going to cause a conflict between a RL action and a in-game action, which I remind you is exactly the sort of thing you are against by taking the stance of harsher logoffski penalties.
---
(.)(.) These are boobs. No need to copy and paste them into your sig, they have already gained world domination. Sorry Bunny. |
Alski
Gallente
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Freelancer Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.15 04:09:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Alski on 15/11/2006 04:12:05
.......Also such a system, does not have to create lag at all, all it has to do is stop ships from warping out of the bubble, until the log off timer ends and the pod disappears
Better than that would be a array, like the ship maintenance array, but for pods.
One more module + no pods or ships floating in space = no more lag than currently.
Originally by: Axox
up until a few days ago I had a crappy internet connection but spamming warp to on the overview always managed to get my pod out.. you just gotta be quick is all.
like I said in my first reply, READ what I said:
“lagged to death while fighting the UI to warp”
“If UI lag on podding can’t be fixed then make it so its not a factor.”
NOT network lag, UI lag!
UI = User Interface btw, or in simple terms, the buttons and controls of the Eve game, when you get podded, the User Interface becomes rather unresponsive, and can take Lots of multiple clicks to initiate warp, also the delay between getting the message saying that your pod’s systems are coming on line, and actually being able to initiate warp differs depending on the amount of overall lag, ie: lots of fleet action, big battle, lots of weapons going off, exploiters jet caning cans full of bookmarks etc.
AGAIN a RL / in-game situation crossover that has negative consequences, EXACTLEY the sort of thing you are against.
Originally by: Alski
The worst possible nightmare of this new system I can imagine would be everyone flying around with a probe ship in there gangs / fleets after Revelations/Kali, losing your internet connection while flying a Carrier, getting randomly probed down and killed within a non aggressed fifteen minute countdown window by pirates who weren’t even looking for you, if that happened and a partition didn’t get it replaced, it would be big Game Over.
Originally by: Axox
Yeah, because only pirates attack people...
It was an Example.
---
(.)(.) These are boobs. No need to copy and paste them into your sig, they have already gained world domination. Sorry Bunny. |
Zimi Vlasic
F.R.E.E. Explorer
EVE Animal Control
|
Posted - 2006.11.15 04:20:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Brixer
Here is a better one:
log off and log in an alt. You're not even warping away.
You just disapear.
I've tested this with a buncha guys from IRON. It doesn't work. I logged off, logged in again and picked an alt. My scrambled Wolf was still logged in, along with an alt on the same account.
Find Roid, Examine, and Excavate Explorer |
Noriath
|
Posted - 2006.11.15 04:34:00 -
[61]
From what I know CCP devs started out playing UO, so why don't they just have the balls UO had in the beginning and make it so that when you loose connection you die and all your stuff is gone... And that was back when people had modems that lost connection when someone called you...
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OldPueblo
Gallente
Defenders of Order
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Posted - 2006.11.15 04:40:00 -
[62]
I scanned this thread and haven't seen links to anything official, where is this "logoff nerf coming soon" info coming from? Do I just need to clean my nerd optics?
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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2006.11.15 04:42:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Rumbaar
15 minutes ... 30 minutes ... bah!
What happens when I jump into a mission and my connection drops or the node dies? My ship sits there as the rats destroy my ship?
No thank you. I hope this change, if implemented, doesn't hurt me a non logout user, just a simple mission runner...
So I'm not sure of the specific, as none are posted in this thread, but there needs to be clear difference between network drop/ISP issue or whatever before implementation. The EVE servers themselves even get ISP connection issues...
Hopefully whatever solution they come up with will be focused on interplayer situations. i.e., aggression states, logging while player-scrambled, and fixing the mechanics that allow people to avoid getting probed out.
* * *
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
NovaScotia
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.11.15 04:49:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Tsanse Kinske
Originally by: Rumbaar
15 minutes ... 30 minutes ... bah!
What happens when I jump into a mission and my connection drops or the node dies? My ship sits there as the rats destroy my ship?
No thank you. I hope this change, if implemented, doesn't hurt me a non logout user, just a simple mission runner...
So I'm not sure of the specific, as none are posted in this thread, but there needs to be clear difference between network drop/ISP issue or whatever before implementation. The EVE servers themselves even get ISP connection issues...
Hopefully whatever solution they come up with will be focused on interplayer situations. i.e., aggression states, logging while player-scrambled, and fixing the mechanics that allow people to avoid getting probed out.
This is my only real concern with it.. logging in a fight is lame imo, but they need to figure out a way for the code to recognize a PvE vs a PvP state. There are far to many crashes/dumps for a change that does not recognize the difference between the two.
Originally by: Alexander Pope
Get place and wealth, if possible with grace; if not, by any means get wealth and place.
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Awox
Finite Horizon
The Red Skull
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Posted - 2006.11.15 05:10:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Alski
Well duh, it wasnÆt an option. Quote:
Is that sarcasm? So what if it is? The general attitude of most EVE players I see is that they don't need a corporation with friends to scout. They can just logoff instead. "I have no friends" is a poor excuse, that's all I am saying. Even if it does not apply to you.
Originally by: Alski
- Lots of people have connection stability issues..
I had quite a few, I had even lost ships over it. I didn't cry. I didn't throw fits. I bought a new one and settled my score..
Originally by: Alski
- How exactly does better detection of the log off exploit constitute ôholding back the honest gamersö..
If people worked together differentiating logoff and CTD would not be important and trying to does hold back the honest players who see this exploit go on every day.
Here's a typical thing I hear on Ventrillo when I am scouting for a mate or he for is for me:
Scout > It's safe to jump into this system
You > I crashed. Be on shortly.
Originally by: Alski
why donÆt you play a different game if your clearly so upset with Eve (see your sig, your post history, etc)[/quit]
I enjoy the game too much, and I've sunk a lot of money into it. Rightly so I should be upset when CCP are slowly destroying what I like about the game.
Originally by: Alski
something about scanning
Scanning shouldn't be important in picking targets at gates. Whether or not they have enough WCS, are faster to warp than your lock time or they can beat you in a fight is ALL THAT SHOULD MATTER.
Originally by: Alski
ThatÆs just a load of *******s, youÆve clearly never lived in a POS in 0.0[/quote
Untrue. I've lived out of a POS for a good while. I still live in 0.0, but because of the limitations as far as interface (and gameplay) I don't work out of a POS anymore.
Don't assume because I don't agree with you on most things I mine Veldspar in Jita..
Originally by: Alski
..in that time any hostile with probes can find you and kill you while you are out of game and completely defenceless
For 15 minutes only. Just stay logged on.. idle, if your connection drops you would have lost aggression timer anyway, and there you go. You wont be probed.
I wish CCP had the balls to police their game. They probably prefer the income to having a decent game. |
Miss Overlord
Gallente
EUROPEANS
|
Posted - 2006.11.15 05:15:00 -
[66]
a comment from RA would be good at this point guess they dont even know its coming
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Alski
Gallente
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Freelancer Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.15 06:02:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Awox
Is that sarcasm? So what if it is? The general attitude of most EVE players I see is that they don't need a corporation with friends to scout. They can just logoff instead. "I have no friends" is a poor excuse, that's all I am saying. Even if it does not apply to you.
Sounded like you were insinuating something there, but I’ll ignore that, and just say it doesn’t apply.
As I indicated in my initial post, it was a “one off thing”, the actual situation was we had no corp members in empire, and we needed said cargo ASAP.
I logged in an alt on a different account, scouted the in-between lowsec system, found only one young NPC corp player in a shuttle, just that 1 person in local.
My alt continued on +2 jumps away from me to the 0.0 system, it was clear.
I quit my Alt, at this point my alt was +2 jumps from me.
My main with the corp cargo jumped into the lowsec system where I was met with several BS, 1 HAC, 1 ceptor, and maybe more, the window of me jumping my alt out of system and me jumping my main in was probably 20-30 seconds, seemed to me it could have been a log on trap given that newbie alt in the shuttle suddenly turned into a fleet. Hence the reason I called it a retarded camp, but I didn’t complain, I was just ****ed.
That in no way excuses it, but ya can see how so very annoying and frustrating it was, which was part of the reason I did it, at least I have the honor to admit to it, but that said, its hardly murder is it? Btw, incase you dident notice my post on the 1st page, I logged after I was locked down and dieing, at least I tried first.
Originally by: Awox
I had quite a few, I had even lost ships over it. I didn't cry. I didn't throw fits. I bought a new one and settled my score..
You settled your score with the lag? Did you pod it? 
So wait... your saying that a real world event effected your game (you lost your ship) and you didn’t complain, but when you lose a kill mail, you troll the forums…
i... see...
Originally by: Awox
If people worked together differentiating logoff and CTD would not be important and trying to does hold back the honest players who see this exploit go on every day.
I see no way at all in which having a system to detect people deliberately logging off and penalizing them for such while balancing it in such a way that people who suffer genuine loss of connection in any way could be a bad thing, or waste of time.
People do play solo, there are more things that happen in eve alone than as a group, if I want to go 7 jumps from the corp’s pos system to an outpost to buy one module, asking someone to hold my hand for me is absurd.
If I log off in my corps home POS system, and there are hostiles there, should my corp mates probe me down first, warp to me, and guard my pod until it disappears too?
Originally by: Awox
"something about scanning"
Scanning shouldn't be important in picking targets at gates. Whether or not they have enough WCS, are faster to warp than your lock time or they can beat you in a fight is ALL THAT SHOULD MATTER.
sry you misunderstood me, I was saying that once someone logs off at a legitimate time (ie: not in combat, not under treat) because of a connection loss or CTD, the amount of time they remain in space after emergency warp must be balanced with the amount of time it takes someone to probe out there ship and kill them, because probes are much faster and more efficient in Kali/Revelations. The same go’s for legitimately logging at a POS, once outside the shield bubble, you are venerable, you shouldn’t be forced to say logged on to save your pod when you are not in combat and in a POS.
more...
---
(.)(.) These are boobs. No need to copy and paste them into your sig, they have already gained world domination. Sorry Bunny. |
Alski
Gallente
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Freelancer Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.15 06:08:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Alski on 15/11/2006 06:09:15
Originally by: Awox
For 15 minutes only. Just stay logged on.. idle,
NO.
Eve is a game.
I should be able to quit it WHENEVER I want
PROVIDED I don’t log out in a moment that would be considered an exploit, ie: when about to die, when jumping into a gate camp, in any form of battle etc.
I will not be forced to stay logged on inside a pos just because there are hostiles in the area, hell in 15 minutes a squad of small fast ships with a covops+probes could be 10 jumps away and still beable to kill my pod before it disappears.
That’s wrong.
POS’s need a proper way to handle people logging off legitimately.
Originally by: Awox
if your connection drops you would have lost aggression timer anyway, and there you go. You wont be probed.
Have to admit, I’m not sure about that, afaik whereever you log in space, weather its an actual quitting of the game or a lost connection, and weather your aggressed or not, your pod does not disappear instantly after emergency warp, but I could be wrong there, so give me some actual details if you know different.
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(.)(.) These are boobs. No need to copy and paste them into your sig, they have already gained world domination. Sorry Bunny. |
Awox
Finite Horizon
The Red Skull
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Posted - 2006.11.15 10:58:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Awox on 15/11/2006 11:04:10
Probably a login trap was it? If that helps you sleep at night..
My revenge thing is this: If I lost a ship due to lag I would re-fit a same ship of the same class and kill them (or lose, this happens too) just to see what the outcome would have been had I not lagged out.
Oh, and about the POS. Sure, I agree. I always thought of POS as one of the least favourite things in the game to deal with, and you are right.. a proper docking interface would be nice so you can logoff with complete safety.
But.. POS need looking at in other ways.. (being able to micromanage your own POS's re-inforcement time, the incredibly lag fighting at them, the fact that when you board an abandoned ship you show on overviews as an empty vessel, etc..)
AFAIK if you log off, not agressed to anything you will disappear almost instantly and your ship will not be scannable at all. It's only after you shoot rats or players that you get an "agro timer" that keeps your ship in space, all other times it should disappear.
Oh, and about me saying CCP shouldn't bother trying to detect the difference between a genuine CTD and logoffski I think CCP shouldn't hide behind the fact that it is hard to detect the difference, and until there is a decent way the only solution I see to stop the exploiters is to make ships stay in space longer no matter what the logoff circumstance.
There's always going to an outpost or deepsafe!
I wish CCP had the balls to police their game. They probably prefer the income to having a decent game. |
Miss Overlord
Gallente
EUROPEANS
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Posted - 2006.11.15 11:00:00 -
[70]
the POS aspect needs considering for log off ski - this would also mean that carriers that undock cant log off when they agress.
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HiroAntagonist
Gallente
Verona Industries
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Posted - 2006.11.15 12:23:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Miss Overlord
a comment from RA would be good at this point guess they dont even know its coming
I don't think RA cares about the forums too much.
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Plutoinum
German Cyberdome Corp
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.11.15 12:45:00 -
[72]
Originally by: OldPueblo
I scanned this thread and haven't seen links to anything official, where is this "logoff nerf coming soon" info coming from? Do I just need to clean my nerd optics?
Devs have been confronted with this question on the fan fest. A dev said that they plan to do something against it, just not when. Was on EVE-TV last weekend ... And now we'll take them at their word and won't stop reminding them from time to time, until it's fixed.
cdt/con-loss vs. regular log-out. A proposal ...
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Hephaesteus
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.15 12:53:00 -
[73]
All that needs to be done is, if you are scramed or in a bubble you cannot warp. Problem solved.
-----------------------------------------------
Knowing all, when all is unknown.
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Alski
Gallente
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.15 13:18:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Awox
stuff i mostley agree with.
Ahh I dunno if it was a login trap, but you got me thinking about it and I realised it was a possibility which I thought would have been kinda funny in an ironic way.
POS’s indeed need a lot of attention, and dam right POS spamming plus timing fuels exactly so they come out of reinforcement either just before downtime, or at a time outside of your enemies peak hours is just as lame as logoffski’s.
(fought RA, mostly wasn’t fun, all I got was a lousy T-shirt and its covered in pod goo)
there may well be ways of coding a CTD / connection drop detection, but most likely the only way it would be implemented is as a way of sorting out partitions faster, since it might not be completely reliable. (ie: a simple macro to kill the windows process)
Originally by: Hephaesteus
All that needs to be done is, if you are scramed or in a bubble you cannot warp. Problem solved.
/Signed!
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(.)(.) These are boobs. No need to copy and paste them into your sig, they have already gained world domination. Sorry Bunny. |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.15 14:10:00 -
[75]
When I asked about the subject at fanfest, the reaction of the panel was quite entertaining :).
Fundamentally the reason for logging of isn't every going to go away - some days you crash out. Others you just really need to go to the toilet or something.
About the best I could come up with is having your ship turn off modules one at a time, and then cloak before logging out. If you end up logging back in 'soon' then your ship hasn't done much of it's shutdown, so it isn't too much a problem. If it's longer, then there's a while when you can't actually do anything useful whilst you're powering up.
(Although maybe don't warp you back to wherever if this is the case, and leave you a 'gate cloak' after logging back in).
Oh, and of course, the 'no warp off/disappear if you couldn't anyway'.
The reason it's not an exploit is because calling things exploits get petitions, and you need a GM to 'deal with it'. Given that no GM in the world can tell the difference between you pressing the power button on your router and 'genuine' network problems, then it hardly makes sense to make it an 'offense'.
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Bastogne
Caldari
Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2006.11.15 15:05:00 -
[76]
Why not make interdictor bubbles scannable? That way if you get within range of the gate you can scan out the bubble. As we can pick up cyno fields on overview across the system, a similiar energy feild like a dictor bubble should also be scannable.
Also with this, instead of having a dictor camp the gate with it's bubble and have snipers at 150km, having an instakill button for everyone who warps to the gate, the dictor can still bubble the gate, trapping other players in system for the other campers to scan out and hunt down.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.15 15:15:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Bastogne
Why not make interdictor bubbles scannable? That way if you get within range of the gate you can scan out the bubble. As we can pick up cyno fields on overview across the system, a similiar energy feild like a dictor bubble should also be scannable.
Also with this, instead of having a dictor camp the gate with it's bubble and have snipers at 150km, having an instakill button for everyone who warps to the gate, the dictor can still bubble the gate, trapping other players in system for the other campers to scan out and hunt down.
Could have sworn interdictor probes (much like any other probe) showed up on the scanner. Interdictors do too. Although because there's no 'overview' category for them, you do need to turn off the 'filter'. (Which could do with being fixed)
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