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Hohenheim OfLight Pegasus Mining and Securities R0ADKILL	Posted - 2006.11.14 11:13:00 - [31] Originally by: Noluck Ned Originally by: Sahjahn People can cheer all they like but the fact is whatever they do will almost certainly have the same effect on those that suffer a genuine crash or server disconnect. Let's see how many people are cheering when their nice new battleship gets blown to smithereens due to a server disconnect. What gets me about this arguement is that you would think EVE is so unstable that everybody crashes every sngle time they jump through a gate. OK we may all have had client freezes as we wait to load up, and we may all have had lag on jump in but only once every blue moon does a jump result in an actual total crash or disconnect. Fact. So to anyone who really really really did crash out: Sorry man, you have become the dupe of everyone who did it intentionally. Actual i crash out rather a lot mainly at gates but i must admit its when running two copies of eve on the same pc, also gui lag on ship death needs sorting before any thin gchanges tbh its crap how you get stuck not beeing able to do any thing if your not able to pilot your ship then it should be imune just like when you undock. ---------------------------------------------- Gone but not forgotten
Zell Caldari The Black Raptors	Posted - 2006.11.14 11:22:00 - [32] HaH! Ra/goons just lost cache.....again "Ginger Magician is just a nublet. I've met more people ingame that have laughed about him, than anyone else in Eve." "A coward dies a thousand times, the brave die just once.."
kurtz abraham Thief Hunters of Orion's Alliance Safe And Fun Environment	Posted - 2006.11.14 11:31:00 - [33] Edited by: kurtz abraham on 14/11/2006 11:31:34 How about making it so that ship doesn't warp off at all for x minutes... but the ship is invulnerable for that period, this gives the CTD person time to log back in and continue to fight, if they have logged off with CTRL+Q then after x minutes they can be fired upon. Just a thought.
Wild Rho Amarr Black Omega Security	Posted - 2006.11.14 11:36:00 - [34] Originally by: kurtz abraham Edited by: kurtz abraham on 14/11/2006 11:31:34 How about making it so that ship doesn't warp off at all for x minutes... but the ship is invulnerable for that period, this gives the CTD person time to log back in and continue to fight, if they have logged off with CTRL+Q then after x minutes they can be fired upon. Just a thought. Easily abused in fleet battles. All the primary has to do is be quick to log to be invulnerable and log back in when the enemy switch targets. I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it.
Brixer	Posted - 2006.11.14 11:36:00 - [35] Here is a better one: log off and log in an alt. You're not even warping away. You just disapear.
Ghen White Wolves Defence league	Posted - 2006.11.14 11:53:00 - [36] I don't know about keeping every ship in space for extended periods of time, it'd just mean you couldn't log off in space because every single corp or alliance with a somewhat competent covops pilot would kill you no matter what. Instead take something from other games and introduce an additional way to log off, it's probably been mentioned before: 1. You choose to log off, you will be staring at your client for 30-45 seconds or so, unable to act except to cancel the logout process (all active modules will be turned off during the process and you'll get a big button telling you how long it takes until you're gone, if you get shot/etc the process is canceled as well). This option is chosen from a menu. 2. You crash/close the client/ctrl-q/etc/etc; your ship warps off to 1 million km and stays in space for 2-5 minutes. Then just have active aggression timers apply after both ways and you're set. If you really need to log off you can do it properly and be reasonably safe, if you do it the other way to avoid death there's a good chance you'll still die.
Noluck Ned FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.14 12:00:00 - [37] Originally by: Brixer Here is a better one: log off and log in an alt. You're not even warping away. You just disapear. Thanks for sharing that info, all the other lamers needed to know that too. F4T4L is Recruiting!
Ilmonstre Minmatar TYRANTS	Posted - 2006.11.14 12:00:00 - [38] Originally by: Ghen I don't know about keeping every ship in space for extended periods of time, it'd just mean you couldn't log off in space because every single corp or alliance with a somewhat competent covops pilot would kill you no matter what. Instead take something from other games and introduce an additional way to log off, it's probably been mentioned before: 1. You choose to log off, you will be staring at your client for 30-45 seconds or so, unable to act except to cancel the logout process (all active modules will be turned off during the process and you'll get a big button telling you how long it takes until you're gone, if you get shot/etc the process is canceled as well). This option is chosen from a menu. 2. You crash/close the client/ctrl-q/etc/etc; your ship warps off to 1 million km and stays in space for 2-5 minutes. Then just have active aggression timers apply after both ways and you're set. If you really need to log off you can do it properly and be reasonably safe, if you do it the other way to avoid death there's a good chance you'll still die. the thing that just needs to change is that you shoudl still be able to scramble someone even when he/she has logged out so you can still hold the ship on its place so you can not avoid a gatecamp by logging off.
Gaven Blands	Posted - 2006.11.14 12:19:00 - [39] Fixing logoff is certainly easier than fixing the reasons why people have resorted to it that's for sure. Fixing the reasons for it could have helped repopulate low sec. But no. You're getting what you asked for, I hope you like it. Put home addresses in loss and killmails. Maybe then the community will find a way to control themselves a bit better.
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.14 12:25:00 - [40] Originally by: Gaven Blands Fixing logoff is certainly easier than fixing the reasons why people have resorted to it that's for sure. Fixing the reasons for it could have helped repopulate low sec. But no. You're getting what you asked for, I hope you like it. We definately will. People that use ctrl-q for their survival have no reason to be in low sec space in the first place. And I don't agree with the popular idea that as many people as possible shouild be in low sec anyway. Those people that want to should, those that don't shouldn't. People would do good however to not neccesarily listen to the doompreaching idiots in npc corpchats tho. I wrtoe this neat guide that tells you how to get into 0.0 and stay there as a realtive new player (new to low sec/0.0). It's fairly easy, it just has to be something you'd like doing. It also doesn't involve getting blown up all the time at gatecamps. Even after more then three years I've still got to die at a gamtecamp for the first time. Old blog
Karoth Tyu FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.14 12:35:00 - [41] Make scan probes work faster, make log out times longer, and logging in an alt shouldn't make your main disappear from space. How hard would something like this be to implement, really?
Taka Caldari Quam Singulari Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.14 12:56:00 - [42] tbh i wud rather be **ed off bcos someone has logged off in a bubble to save his ship/pod than me being **ed off that i got disconnected from my connection and by the time ive logged back in found out that ive had my ship and pod blown up without aggression. there are quite a few people in this game with "unstable" connections...i being one of them. Dont come back with "get adsl then". Yeah i wud if i cud...but i cant get it where i live...and im sure thats why other people are only using 56k...bcos they cant recieve it where they live. People who log off to save thier pod/ship are lamers....they shud just face up to getting killed. They are ruining the game for other people, especially us 56k'ers. One of the ideas mentioned was making landing in bubbles and aggression...it wud probably be better if it didnt make everyone in the bubble aggresed...but they got an aggression timer so if they wanted/cud they cud try get back to gate to jump back thru. the other ideas are just gonna make it more painfull for people who have real problems with thier computers/connection. -------------------- My Sig Got Podded!!
Becham	Posted - 2006.11.14 13:04:00 - [43] Quote: "People that use ctrl-q for their survival have no reason to be in low sec space in the first place." Sure they have a reason. Why else would they be there? Fixing this should be top priority for CCP though. What an awful exploit to have sitting there in a PVP or PVE game. I know of no other game where you can just unplug to avoid death.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2006.11.14 13:47:00 - [44] Originally by: Noluck Ned Originally by: Sahjahn People can cheer all they like but the fact is whatever they do will almost certainly have the same effect on those that suffer a genuine crash or server disconnect. Let's see how many people are cheering when their nice new battleship gets blown to smithereens due to a server disconnect. What gets me about this arguement is that you would think EVE is so unstable that everybody crashes every sngle time they jump through a gate. OK we may all have had client freezes as we wait to load up, and we may all have had lag on jump in but only once every blue moon does a jump result in an actual total crash or disconnect. Fact. So to anyone who really really really did crash out: Sorry man, you have become the dupe of everyone who did it intentionally. DC for a lot of reasons I see every day in my corporation, during missions, in high space, not so crowded systems. So none of us is using ctrl-q. For example I often have total frezee up of the system for overload of the firewall when some retarded hacker or gnutella user ping it multiple time in 1 second. And that require reset button e reboot of the system. Or the misterious "disconnected for inactiviity" while in station, 5 tryes to complete log in as I was DC every time by EVE. Be very careful before penalizing this kind of situation.
Professional Troll	Posted - 2006.11.14 13:58:00 - [45] My money says the fix is a timer to log back in, cause the only real serious exploit is the log-out/log-in cyclical one, and a few minutes delay to the log-in would allow the other person/people to probe out the logger. Look at me! Look at me! Snip Please don't bypass the profanity filter. -ReverendM ([email protected])
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.14 14:05:00 - [46] Originally by: Rod Blaine I think you misunderstood the ten minutes timer. Only if you remain offline longer then ten (might want to make it 5 or somaybe) minutes would you get a 5 minute recalibration timer that prevents you from locking, nothing else. What that means is that a system empty ten minutes ago and not used since will be empty when you get there for all practical purposes. (well, you could logintrap using a dozen FOF Ravens but that's a bit of a whacky proposition isn't it ) So yeah, that would allow for scouting to solve the logintrap issue, but only of you scout well. Sounds good enough, then we don't have to argue about anyone using login traps or not
Sebo Darrens Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.14 22:07:00 - [47] Some good replies so far. I suggest an addition: - Log-in queue for logging in to a specific system. Don't let more than 1 pilot every 10 seconds or so log in in a system.. may be a problem while node crashes still exist, but would also help prevent node crashes, at least in the SE corner of the map cough
Awox Finite Horizon The Red Skull	Posted - 2006.11.14 23:05:00 - [48] Originally by: Alski Yeah despite being one of these people who has logged in ôbattleö (once! And only to try and save corp assets from a retarded gate gank) IÆd accept it provided.... Stop trying to justify it. You should have had your corpmates help you by scouting and maybe even nuetralizing the threat. Originally by: Alski - It can actually detect the difference between a quit and a lost connection û I live a long way from the ADSL exchange and the wiring is ancient, you can guess what happens often. Bad luck tbh, just like in all other online games? Maybe if your connection isn't so good instead of holding back the honest gamers you should play a turn-based game with saves? :P Originally by: Alski - The amount of time the ship / pod remains in space is balanced very carefully based on the new game mechanics of probes coming in Revelations/Kali + real life skills, some people are already pretty dam fast with the current probes and scanners. If I want to run around 0.0 by myself in an Interceptor or Cruiser I should NOT have to worry about people logging off and if they do I should NOT need a covert ops vessel just to probe them out. Even if I did have a covert ops vessel they would just log in and out repeatidly to move their ship so they cannot be found (which is perfectly legal in CCP's eyes) Originally by: Alski - For the love of Ovuer, give us a an option to NOT warp when in a POS bubble, or a place to dock podÆs at least. Yeah, because people don't hide enough in a POS as it is... If the majority of EVE weren't pussies I'd agree with you on this but with the current POS interface having logged off ships would just clutter up a POS. Originally by: Alski - Give us an emergency warp button we can switch on when in a pod, or when ship is into structure thatÆll warp our ejected pods (pods only) to a random planet, belt, or gate, either that or fix it so when you get ejected you donÆt get lagged to death while fighting the UI to warp. If UI lag on podding canÆt be fixed then make it so its not a factor. (not sure about this one at all... but its an idea, just fix the dam lag tbh) Up until a few days ago I had a crappy internet connection but spamming warp to on the overview always managed to get my pod out.. you just gotta be quick is all. Originally by: Alski The worst possible nightmare of this new system I can imagine would be everyone flying around with a probe ship in there gangs / fleets after Revelations/Kali, losing your internet connection while flying a Carrier, getting randomly probed down and killed within a non aggressed fifteen minute countdown window by pirates who werenÆt even looking for you, if that happened and a partition didnÆt get it replaced, it would be big Game Over. Yeah, because only pirates attack people... I wish CCP had the balls to police their game. They probably prefer the income to having a decent game.
DrAtomic Atomic Heroes Forces of Freedom	Posted - 2006.11.15 00:40:00 - [49] Originally by: Aaron Static They will still log off to save their pods with the new scanning, but this is excellent news! Not if they leave the pod out in space as well, i dont see a reason no to actually. ----------------------------------------------- The BIG Lottery
Anonymous Coward Gallente Panopticon Citadel	Posted - 2006.11.15 02:23:00 - [50] Originally by: Rod Blaine People that use ctrl-q for their survival have no reason to be in low sec space in the first place. So I'm sure the BoB members that ctrl-q will be kicked or reprimanded, right? Right.
baaaaal	Posted - 2006.11.15 02:43:00 - [51] i think nodes dieing would need fixing before logoski no?
Alski Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.15 02:45:00 - [52] Originally by: Awox stuff. blahblah. more stuff. boo hoo. there is no RL. stating the obvious. You don’t honestly expect me to respond to any of that do you? That was absolutely the worst case of incomprehension and reasoning I’ve ever seen on these forums, not to mention reading what you only want to hear. Tell ya what, why don’t ya try reading everything I said, very very slowly, contemplate each word individual if you must, then post another rebuttal. One with a bit more reason, then I’ll respond in a meaningfull way. Kthxgbye. --- (.)(.) These are boobs. No need to copy and paste them into your sig, they have already gained world domination. Sorry Bunny.
Murukan Minmatar The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2006.11.15 03:31:00 - [53] TBH i wish they would just make it so if you log out in a **in dictor bubble you stay there until you're un agressed. Manlove by Zaphod Jones**
Awox Finite Horizon The Red Skull	Posted - 2006.11.15 03:34:00 - [54] Originally by: Alski Originally by: Awox stuff. blahblah. more stuff. boo hoo. there is no RL. stating the obvious. You donÆt honestly expect me to respond to any of that do you? That was absolutely the worst case of incomprehension and reasoning IÆve ever seen on these forums, not to mention reading what you only want to hear. Tell ya what, why donÆt ya try reading everything I said, very very slowly, contemplate each word individual if you must, then post another rebuttal. One with a bit more reason, then IÆll respond in a meaningfull way. Kthxgbye. Back aat you. READ my post. Kthxgbye. Or did I just cut your bull**** post in half? I wish CCP had the balls to police their game. They probably prefer the income to having a decent game.
Rumbaar Solitary Forsaken	Posted - 2006.11.15 03:53:00 - [55] 15 minutes ... 30 minutes ... bah! What happens when I jump into a mission and my connection drops or the node dies? My ship sits there as the rats destroy my ship? No thank you. I hope this change, if implemented, doesn't hurt me a non logout user, just a simple mission runner... So I'm not sure of the specific, as none are posted in this thread, but there needs to be clear difference between network drop/ISP issue or whatever before implementation. The EVE servers themselves even get ISP connection issues... ___________________ Custom banner? Click above or EVEmail
Anonymous Coward Gallente Panopticon Citadel	Posted - 2006.11.15 03:57:00 - [56] Originally by: Sebo Darrens - Log-in queue for logging in to a specific system. Don't let more than 1 pilot every 10 seconds or so log in in a system.. may be a problem while node crashes still exist, but would also help prevent node crashes, at least in the SE corner of the map cough Perhaps if you're having problems with node crashes in the south, you should tell your allies to stop trying to intentionally do it. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=417844&page=5#122 Sexorella hotz > crash this ***** node, play the goon game... Marneous Calgar > or we will be spending months fighting over that system Light Darkness > 85 IN HERE AND NOONE INTEREST IT THAT WE LOOSE POSES HERE General Dynasty > 19 IN GANG IF YOU ARE NOT IN GANG PACK YOUR UP AND LEAVE ALLIANCE General Dynasty > I **IN SERIOUS The ArchWarder > WE NEED NEED EVERYBODY WE CAN GET TO GET ONTO A CHEAP CRUISER THAT CAN DEPLOY 5 DRONES ( lights meds what ever ) AND GET INTO RYC ASAP WE ARE GONA TRASH THIS SFKIN NODDE
Nev Clavain Wise Guys Rogue Method Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.15 04:01:00 - [57] Originally by: aggiedog Originally by: Montaire With the new Scannign tech there is a real simple fix, truth be told. Extend the time your ship stays in space. Let it warp off, by all means. But keep it there for 15 mins if un-agressed, 30 with agression of any kind (Bieng shot at, or shooting at someone) Wouldnt hurt NPC'ers. Wouldnt hurt people who LD. I've never known why Ctrl-Q doesnt send the server a log-able event before it shuts down the client. I agree, just let your ship stay there for a certain time so the enemy can clean up and probe you. Though, there is the problem of people logging on and off, on and off. Though I guess it is a matter of who gets bored first. Then again, this is a good stalling tactic when waiting for reinforcements. I do it as a problem for npc'ers. If there is a real dis Timer Doesn't work. The problem is far deeper. The way the client, and I am assuming the server is setup any timer you put on can be circumvented using log tactics. Not going into more details for obvious reasons. Suffice to say that timer or no timer, ships can be made to dissappear from space within about 30 seconds regardless of where they are what they are being scrambled by; whatever. Sig removed. Please keep sigs to 400x120 pixels and 24000 bytes in size or less. -Kaemonn
Alski Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.15 04:06:00 - [58] Very will, if you insist on holding up that retarded response, I wouldent, I have more self respect than that. here ya go... Originally by: Awox Originally by: Alski Yeah despite being one of these people who has logged in “battle” (once! And only to try and save corp assets from a retarded gate gank) I’d accept it provided.... Stop trying to justify it. You should have had your corpmates help you by scouting and maybe even nuetralizing the threat. Well duh, it wasn’t an option. PS: see my other reply on the 1st page. Originally by: Alski - It can actually detect the difference between a quit and a lost connection – I live a long way from the ADSL exchange and the wiring is ancient, you can guess what happens often. Originally by: Awox Bad luck tbh, just like in all other online games? Maybe if your connection isn't so good instead of holding back the honest gamers you should play a turn-based game with saves? :P - Lots of people have connection stability issues, this is accounted for in other games so it doesn’t harm either the player, or any others playing the game. - How exactly does better detection of the log off exploit constitute “holding back the honest gamers”, it doesn’t does it. - As for the “you should play turn-based game” comment, why don’t you play a different game if your clearly so upset with Eve (see your sig, your post history, etc) Originally by: Alski - The amount of time the ship / pod remains in space is balanced very carefully based on the new game mechanics of probes coming in Revelations/Kali + real life skills, some people are already pretty dam fast with the current probes and scanners. Originally by: Awox If I want to run around 0.0 by myself in an Interceptor or Cruiser I should NOT have to worry about people logging off and if they do I should NOT need a covert ops vessel just to probe them out. - Your right, you shouldn’t, that’s why me and most others here support the idea of a change. Originally by: Awox Even if I did have a covert ops vessel they would just log in and out repeatidly to move their ship so they cannot be found (which is perfectly legal in CCP's eyes) - which should be fixed as well, however you seem to have just inserted your own random comment in here that has nothing to do with what I said, I was merely stating that the new system will have to be balanced to take account of the facts that people have RL reasons and need to log in space sometimes when not in combat, esp. in 0.0 where it can be a long journey to the outpost, and because people lose internet connection through no fault of there own, or there PC / Eve crashes, in such cases it would be wrong for a ship to remain in space indefinitely because that introduces an in-game penalty for having a life, or events outside of your control. Originally by: Alski - For the love of Ovuer, give us a an option to NOT warp when in a POS bubble, or a place to dock pod’s at least. Originally by: Awox Yeah, because people don't hide enough in a POS as it is... If the majority of EVE weren't pussies I'd agree with you on this but with the current POS interface having logged off ships would just clutter up a POS. That’s just a load of *******s, you’ve clearly never lived in a POS in 0.0, when your done for the night and need to log, your pod warps outside of the bubble with the standard log out timer, in that time any hostile with probes can find you and kill you while you are out of game and completely defenceless, if part of the new changes are to include a longer log out timer, coupled with the better, much faster probe and scanning system, that’s clearly going to cause a conflict between a RL action and a in-game action, which I remind you is exactly the sort of thing you are against by taking the stance of harsher logoffski penalties. --- (.)(.) These are boobs. No need to copy and paste them into your sig, they have already gained world domination. Sorry Bunny.
Alski Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.15 04:09:00 - [59] Edited by: Alski on 15/11/2006 04:12:05 .......Also such a system, does not have to create lag at all, all it has to do is stop ships from warping out of the bubble, until the log off timer ends and the pod disappears Better than that would be a array, like the ship maintenance array, but for pods. One more module + no pods or ships floating in space = no more lag than currently. Originally by: Axox up until a few days ago I had a crappy internet connection but spamming warp to on the overview always managed to get my pod out.. you just gotta be quick is all. like I said in my first reply, READ what I said: “lagged to death while fighting the UI to warp” “If UI lag on podding can’t be fixed then make it so its not a factor.” NOT network lag, UI lag! UI = User Interface btw, or in simple terms, the buttons and controls of the Eve game, when you get podded, the User Interface becomes rather unresponsive, and can take Lots of multiple clicks to initiate warp, also the delay between getting the message saying that your pod’s systems are coming on line, and actually being able to initiate warp differs depending on the amount of overall lag, ie: lots of fleet action, big battle, lots of weapons going off, exploiters jet caning cans full of bookmarks etc. AGAIN a RL / in-game situation crossover that has negative consequences, EXACTLEY the sort of thing you are against. Originally by: Alski The worst possible nightmare of this new system I can imagine would be everyone flying around with a probe ship in there gangs / fleets after Revelations/Kali, losing your internet connection while flying a Carrier, getting randomly probed down and killed within a non aggressed fifteen minute countdown window by pirates who weren’t even looking for you, if that happened and a partition didn’t get it replaced, it would be big Game Over. Originally by: Axox Yeah, because only pirates attack people... It was an Example. --- (.)(.) These are boobs. No need to copy and paste them into your sig, they have already gained world domination. Sorry Bunny.
Zimi Vlasic F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2006.11.15 04:20:00 - [60] Originally by: Brixer Here is a better one: log off and log in an alt. You're not even warping away. You just disapear. I've tested this with a buncha guys from IRON. It doesn't work. I logged off, logged in again and picked an alt. My scrambled Wolf was still logged in, along with an alt on the same account. Find Roid, Examine, and Excavate Explorer

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