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Qual
Gallente
EMO Erotic Holoreel Studios
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Posted - 2006.11.14 09:55:00 -
[91]
 Originally by: Latex Mistress
/me wonders what a BoB vs. ASCN post would be without ASCN responding at all... or BoB for that matter. As disciplined and small as the MC is, I know that we can't pull it off (passionate as people get) but I think this whole conflict would be radically different to those not directly involved.
Something tells me it'd be rather boring. Think about it.
Well Fountain Alliance had a strict No Post policy on the boards. (I was FA when BoB slaughtered them.) The general perception of FA did not improve from it. Far from. BoB repeated its message so many times that in the end people just took it as fact.
The message then was that Xanadu and BIG was just using the the smaller alliance members as cannon fodder and didnt do any fighting themselfs. (Your basic "create internal conflict" and "make them look bad" type of propaganda.)
And its not like ASCN HC havent learnt the idea. CYVOK will keep saying BoB cheat, again and again until people belive him, regardless the lack of any kind of evidence to the claim. Its how advertising works too: Repeat the message until people disregard common sense and just buy into whatever you tell them the truth is.
But! But! Ain't I admiting that BoB uses propaganda without basis in fact too?
Sure we do.
But! But! Then people will never ever trust anything BoB says again!
You wish. I wish. Again, propaganda works just like advertising: Its not like we dont know they are filling us with ****, but eventually, when repeated enough without and equal ammount of counter arguments, you start to buy into the message regardless of you own will.
 The way to win a war in EVE is to get the general population to belive you won.
(Just to be clear: Im not saying that every BoB, ASCN, what-ever-alliance post is propaganda. Im just saying that we all use it. Usually its pretty easy to spot too. Im just looking into WHY its used so much.)
"The short version: Qual is right." -Papa Smurf |
darth solo
Celestial Apocalypse
Insurgency
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Posted - 2006.11.14 10:01:00 -
[92]
i think all the crap and lies on the forums is great.. it makes u want to blow up your enemy even, it puts fire in ur belly to actually log on and do stuff.
nothing better than when a dude comes on the forum and talks big and u wipe his fleet out in 5mins.. class.
d solo.
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darth solo
Celestial Apocalypse
Insurgency
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Posted - 2006.11.14 10:10:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Sun Ra
Originally by: Sku1ly
Edited by: Sku1ly on 13/11/2006 13:52:11
Originally by: DB Preacher
If peeps don't like COAD then click the little button on the top right hand corner that has a big X on it.
What if you're reading the forums on a Mac?
Then you click the x on the lefthand side 
or
If you're smart and use a good brower than you just close the tab, dbp is scottish thus 10 years behind everyone else thus he's still using netscape naviagator
hoy, im offended by that, us scots are at least 15 years behind.
d solo.
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Latex Mistress
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.11.14 10:25:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Qual
Well Fountain Alliance had a strict No Post policy on the boards. (I was FA when BoB slaughtered them.) The general perception of FA did not improve from it. Far from. BoB repeated its message so many times that in the end people just took it as fact.
But it was a fact. You said so yourself: "BoB slaughtered them." People probably took it as a fact because it was objectively obvious more than because BoB repeated it so much (at least I hope so). Also, as I recall, FA had a respectable alt brigade to state their case (as well they should have - being so draconian at the alliance level is silly).
Originally by: Qual
And its not like ASCN HC havent learnt the idea. CYVOK will keep saying BoB cheat, again and again until people belive him, regardless the lack of any kind of evidence to the claim. Its how advertising works too: Repeat the message until people disregard common sense and just buy into whatever you tell them the truth is.
Agreed. However, killboards, personal relationships with those involved, and (gasp) alt characters help the thinking people see past the smoke and mirrors. Those that form their opinions exclusively from the EvE-O forums are a self-fulfilling prophecy. 
I think we agree that the forums are useless without the vigorous exchange of ideas (heated as they may be). If BoB rolled through ASCN and ASCN said nothing about it (much in the form of FA) these boards would be boring. Now that I think of it though I do suspect if BoB rolled through ASCN without saying a word (leaving ASCN to hemorrhage without so much as a response from their murderers) the result may be boring to some but to me it'd be absolutely beautiful (much in the same form as BDCI when we first started).
There's something darkly romantic about killing an alliance quietly and leaving the community to speculate about it publicly.
LM
Latex Mistresss: bringing truth to the truculent one post at a time
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Lakedaimon
Evolution
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.11.14 10:49:00 -
[95]
Quote:
I like the idea of a section for alliance poster's only, maybe the thread's can be replied to by the relevant warring parties or something. No more dumb trolling by people who it doesn't involve, o the joy.
I'm not sure that would actually work out well. Consider the current conflict for example. Let's say in random BoB vs ASCN thread #53248 ASCN claims that MC are BoB alts. Since MC is not a part of this war, they are not a warring party and cannot reply to this accusation. Similarly, if a BoB poster makes a claim that involves ASCN and a third party, said third party would be unable to respond.
In addition to that, some of the comments from "outsiders", if you will, tend to be interesting. Their take on the current topic of the thread (let's stick with the BoB vs ASCN example), while not "neutral", may be more objective than that of those who are directly involved.
However I do agree that alt posts of any form should be banned, which includes the aforementioned people in one-man corps.
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Taurequis
Waylander 01
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Posted - 2006.11.14 11:50:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Lakedaimon
Quote:
I like the idea of a section for alliance poster's only, maybe the thread's can be replied to by the relevant warring parties or something. No more dumb trolling by people who it doesn't involve, o the joy.
I'm not sure that would actually work out well. Consider the current conflict for example. Let's say in random BoB vs ASCN thread #53248 ASCN claims that MC are BoB alts. Since MC is not a part of this war, they are not a warring party and cannot reply to this accusation. Similarly, if a BoB poster makes a claim that involves ASCN and a third party, said third party would be unable to respond.
In addition to that, some of the comments from "outsiders", if you will, tend to be interesting. Their take on the current topic of the thread (let's stick with the BoB vs ASCN example), while not "neutral", may be more objective than that of those who are directly involved.
However I do agree that alt posts of any form should be banned, which includes the aforementioned people in one-man corps.
Hi,
But then you get onto the issue of defining an "outsider".
As i mentioned earlier, I am not an alt. I am in a one man corp.
My interest as an outsider is one of liking the politics side of things and being interested yes but if you look a bit deeper and look into who i am then you find a bit more vested interest.
I was a director in Kiroshi, who merged into Setenta, I was there when we discovered and captured the first stations in Paragon, GQ2, MP5, H8. I spent almost 6 months running logistics out there for Setenta before moving to work for the Stain Alliance as their first and only full time civil servant & advisor to the Emperor Trigger.
Setenta and Tribes long after i left them got kicked out of Paragon by ASCN so i guess that makes me anti ASCN.... (a big chunk of STC friends are now in Evol too).
But to the same respects my friends in the old and new incarnations of Stain had many a war with Bob and FIX so ive often spoken in support of their enemies (sometimes objectively, sometimes with a little more bias tbh).
So i'd say i have feelings, interests and opinions on both sides. Thereby as an outsider with historical ties id be loathed if my right to post and reply in free speech was removed.
The outsider is the football pundit of this forum area. Sometimes we can speak utter balls, other times we can gift the conversation with a new fresh peice of impartial information and perspective.
Without it this forum would just stagnate in the cesspit of endless propoganda and counter propoganda.
Best Regards,
Taur
p.s All you Bobbits around MP5 make sure to visit the brown moon just behind the station. The ThUnDeRdOmE!! awaits. 
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Buxaroo
Black Dwarf
Caldari Deep Space Industral
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Posted - 2006.11.14 12:09:00 -
[97]
jeNK, I understand your issues with the forums but I disagree. To me, without the politics and forum posting, this game would be very dull indeed. I think just about everyone can agree on that. To me, the forums tell me who's at war, who's at peice, who's bull****ting, who's the real deal.
Name one other game in the whole world where the politics matter? Or the forums? I rarely if ever posted on any forums related to any game out there because of one simple fact: nothing worth talking about.
But you seem a little too sensitive to the mud flying around. Myself, I am too hardened against anything to let it effect my gameplay in any way. Someone smacks me in local because they just blew up my ship? Big deal, I will just come back later on with lesson learned and hopefully the guys corpse in my cargo bay as I am heading back to the outpost.
Just my 2 isk's worth.
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Morning Maniac
Eve University
Ivy League
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Posted - 2006.11.14 12:32:00 -
[98]
Edited by: Morning Maniac on 14/11/2006 12:32:27
TBH the reason I don't go to things like the Fanfest is that I read these forums. So I suppose I need to thank the rude people for saving me some rl ISK 
The reason I do read them is that I want to keep up to speed with what is going on. If there was some sort of daily news report from an objective source I wouldn't bother going to this section of the forums, unless Kelduum would post something interesting. I once did suggest in my corp chat to start a news agency and fraps some stuff and make a daily/weekly/whateverly news report but my corp buddies felt that we would get blown up trying.
Anyway, some people who write informative and level headed posts have my respect. Since I read the names on the post first I know which ones I can skip.
MM
http://eve.xonectic.com/forum/(out of game)
EVE University commercial |
Scagga Laebetrovo
Veto.
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Posted - 2006.11.14 13:43:00 -
[99]
Victory always goes to those with the most will to win, whether they win materially or not is irrelevant.
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Lakedaimon
Evolution
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.11.14 13:59:00 -
[100]
Quote:
So i'd say i have feelings, interests and opinions on both sides. Thereby as an outsider with historical ties id be loathed if my right to post and reply in free speech was removed.
Fair enough, and you will notice that I do support the idea of having "outsiders", i.e. people who are not immediately involved in the conflict, post their thoughts and observations.
However you have to admit that it is difficult to tell whether someone just happens to be in a one man corp like yourself or if said someone is an alt used to smack some more.
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Weebear
Celestial Horizon Corp.
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.14 14:19:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Lakedaimon
However you have to admit that it is difficult to tell whether someone just happens to be in a one man corp like yourself or if said someone is an alt used to smack some more.
A corp history like they have on Eve-Search would be a great start.
TBH, it's surprising CCP don't put more effort into the web side of things. |
Nez Perces
Amarr
Black Spot.
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Posted - 2006.11.14 14:40:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Lakedaimon
However you have to admit that it is difficult to tell whether someone just happens to be in a one man corp like yourself or if said someone is an alt used to smack some more.
Well thats the key isnt it, posting with your main.
The problem is, how do you tell a main from an alt. It has nothing to do with how many people are in a corp.
I for example have only one account... and Nez Perces is the only character I have ever played with, spanning 3 years and a fairly comprehensive CV.
I could,however, have 2 accounts... one I use for posting stuff on the forums and one that doesn't. Would I posting with an alt then? Which one would be my main?
Then there is the case of genuine new players that start their own corps and wanna post on the forums with their new main.. and should have every right to.
Already ISD has eliminated the alts with no corporate affiliation or those that were blatantly created just to smack the forums. Thats about as much as they can do. At the end of the day its down to ISD to decide whats acceptable and what is not.
But we have to play our part too.... forum readers need to understand the true nature of the forums.. and this means taking them only as seriously as they need to be taken.
And if readers can't manage that, they should just stay away from the forums altogether.
Either you participate on the forums as they are.. or you don't... there is no middle ground.. you cannot peak at the forums through clasped hands and then get all bent out of shape when you see things you don't agree with. Thats called hypocrisy.
The forums are just fine and dandy the way they are, now that blatant alt posting is more or less a thing of the past. The people still complaining don't actually like forums in general....and the free exchange of ideas that happens on them.
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Shardrael
Caldari
AWE Corporation
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.14 16:20:00 -
[103]
Edited by: Shardrael on 14/11/2006 16:21:14
Originally by: Nez Perces
K .. I'm calling you out.. show me where on this thread did I 'smack'?
You won't find any post here that had me smacking anybody.. what you will find is posts that YOU didn't read properly.
[/quote
Originally by: Nez Perces
you know what your OP was useless drivel.. how about that...
yes you could say I misread your post, as could you say to anyone reading anything you type, its your eternal shifting defense in anything you type. regardless of that you do the exact same thing to everyone else in an attempt to give them a righteous forumpwning. If you wanna be involved in this conflict come fly with or against one of us....
ohh and lets see where were all the logical argument falacies I commited; I did not fully quote nor fully respond to anything you wrote(something you are constantly guilty of), I took what you wrote out of context to prove a point I wanted to get across(something you are constantly guilty of), I painted a picture for all those without an in depth knowledge of the subject based on oversimplified and mistaken points of view(something you are constantly guilty of) etc. etc. etc.
Originally by: Nez Perces
Edited by: Nez Perces on 13/11/2006 13:12:47
Here we go again......
first of all... If You Don't like the content of this section of the forums... DON'T READ IT.
These boards are very well moderated and recieve a lot of attention from ISD.
The CAOD board is a window into the soul of EVE, take away the political excitment that comes from announcements from the big alliances, propaganda or not and you will be ripping the heart out of EVE.
If you don't understand why CAOD and its content is so important.. then 0.0 life and EVE is simply not your game..... at all.
When this section of the forum gets a little too much for the delicate sensibilities out there ... one can always visit the following forums as an alternative :
My Little Pony Forums
point 1.) if you dont like the forum content then dont read it
that is like saying if there is something we want to be involed in but dont like the current situation to not get involved, and that is horribly wrong, if you want to do something but are displeased with some aspect of it, then it is your responsibilty to try and fix that(yes people may resist and not give in but it is your responsibility to try regardless)
point 2.)forum moderation,
I would disagree here aswell, not in ISD's effort at maintaing control of this board but in the fact that there are so many loopholes around the rules in this board that moderation according to the rules is a mute point.
point 3.)"yay we love this board dont take it away"
if you would read the OP, he never states explicitly or implies that he wants this board gone, he is merely stating that he is upset with the current state it finds itself in, so I would gander an assumption(bear with me)that he is not actually fed up with the "political announcements" as you put it but with the "dribble" as you put it that rises to the surface during the discussions found herein
point 4.) mildly disguised swing at the op's intelligence
needs no rebuttal as this is a disguised hit at someones perception or level of intelligence(regardless of what your intention may have been.
point 5.) mildly humorous reference to a more suitable area of discussion for said stupid or non perceptive people
again even though this was meant more of a joke it is regardless a reference designed to make someone look like a "wussy" etc. for there not liking the crap on this board.
you can make alot of ruccus on here about whatever you want, all the op was trying to say is its not neccesary, if you want to debate that then tell him why it is neccesary(the verbal diareha that is not the anouncements)
because we choose not to post does not mean we are not able.
appologies ascn for posting on these boards
Originally by: Pinky Denmark
Caldari have other options like using rails or train for other ships/weapons...
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DarK
STK Scientific
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Posted - 2006.11.14 16:44:00 -
[104]
This forum really makes my blood boil, which is why I find it so amusing.
It basically the same as a soccer match in that if a player from team A fouls a player from team B, the supports of the team A will claim that it wasn't a foul and will scream at the referee. The supporters of team B will righteously claim that it was indeed a foul.
Then next match the previous team B will do what team A did to them, but to another team. The supporters will react the same way as team A did previously.
The point is that what is acceptable gameplay/tactics usually depends on the situation at hand, and that most people are a hypocrites in denial. I personally find the propaganda on this forum annoying, because I'm not the one doing it.
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Lakedaimon
Evolution
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.11.14 16:58:00 -
[105]
Quote:
A corp history like they have on Eve-Search would be a great start.
TBH, it's surprising CCP don't put more effort into the web side of things.
Heh, thanks, I did not know that. Yeah, something like that would help quite a bit.
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Nez Perces
Amarr
Black Spot.
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Posted - 2006.11.14 19:05:00 -
[106]
Edited by: Nez Perces on 14/11/2006 19:06:03
@ Shardrael, I would respond to your post but you made a pig's ear out of the quotes and its hard to make sense of it...
if you can edit it to be more legible I will be happy to keep playing.
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Rumbaar
Solitary Forsaken
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Posted - 2006.11.14 22:44:00 -
[107]
As a carebear empire corp member alliance warfare is beyond my gaming experience at the moment, but that being said this section does offer some interesting readings for me while I'm at work.
As they say the hearts and minds of men are won through propaganda and it seems some are better than others. I'd love to be one day involved in that type of smack talk propaganda, I've missed those days from IRC/MSN chat days. Variety is the spice of life.
Though I would hate it if I was bared from any option to voice my opinion or comment due to a non-alliance block.
___________________
Custom banner? Click above or EVEmail |
Shardrael
Caldari
AWE Corporation
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.15 03:03:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Nez Perces
Edited by: Nez Perces on 14/11/2006 19:06:03
@ Shardrael, I would respond to your post but you made a pig's ear out of the quotes and its hard to make sense of it...
if you can edit it to be more legible I will be happy to keep playing.
sorry about that fixed it more now
had to remove last line but it said "just because we dont post in a forum war does not mean we are not capable"
Originally by: Pinky Denmark
Caldari have other options like using rails or train for other ships/weapons...
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Derrios
Dirty Deeds Corp.
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.15 03:12:00 -
[109]
forum whoring and verbal sparing are one of the things that make MMOGs fun.
-----------------------------------------------
<3 conspiracy theories. Originally by: Omeega
We (aAa) could do this - did this?
*/me hands the DBP paycheck with the small note - Please bbq AXE*
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Nebba Kenezzer
Minmatar
Shinra
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.15 03:30:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Xrak
You can easily avoid reading these forums. Nobody is holding you at gun point whilst using a machine to keep your eyes open and making you read anything posted here, or cross posted (I hope).
A Clockwork Orange...
Nebba - The Vocal Majority
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KSUDruid
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.11.15 03:40:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Nebba Kenezzer
A Clockwork Orange...
I'm singing in the Rain! <PUNCH KICK WHACK!> I'm Singing in the Rain!
-Druid
Current RKK Ranking: (CAL11) Sabre |
Darodem
Minmatar
STK Scientific
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Posted - 2006.11.15 04:17:00 -
[112]
This is only to be expected.
I can't get over how often this forum situation has been repeated.
Endless, Curse, The Five, Bob ad nauseum.
Some exceptional group or not depending on how you look at it - they come forward claiming some form of superiority. The hallmarks of their forum activity are overwhelming numbers of moblike responses and a basic "abuse of the commons."
This abuse of the commons is expected, we should be enthusiastic because it has both a beginning and an end.
The thing of it is - it starts up again soon. I think this is what Jenk is getting at. I wonder if it is mostly the same people playing the same roles in this drama of forum spammage. I know I tend to stay in the same role and that gives me a hint - its time be a little more introspective.
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Nez Perces
Amarr
Black Spot.
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Posted - 2006.11.15 18:53:00 -
[113]
Edited by: Nez Perces on 15/11/2006 19:00:29
Originally by: Nez Perces
you know what your OP was useless drivel.. how about that...
Originally by: Shardrael
yes you could say I misread your post, as could you say to anyone reading anything you type, its your eternal shifting defense in anything you type.
Actually you didn't misread my post .... it *was* intended as mild smack.. BUT... only to point out the smack by the OP that preceeded it... you missed that didn't you..tsk...tsk......and here it is...
Originally by: Nez Perces
......the little pony post...
Originally by: jeNK
*yawn*
and exact example of the useless drivel that barely scrapes under the radar of the mods.
So who was 'smacking' who?.. if you can call that smack.. was it I or was it jeNK? jeNK figured my initial pony post was 'smack' aimed at him, so he 'smacked' me back, then I 'smacked' him to show him that he was infact 'smacking' me first.... 
If you understood that, you need help..... moving on...
I'll skip your point by point disection as we would basically end up going round in circles.. we obviously have differing opinions of what is drivel and what isn't.... again thats a job for ISD not you or I.
Originally by: Shardrael
you can make alot of ruccus on here about whatever you want, all the op was trying to say is its not neccesary, if you want to debate that then tell him
I'll try to explain why the "verbal diarrhoea" as you put it .. actually fulfills a vital role in warfare and the more agressive discussions on these forums....
On these forums, very often accusations are thrown at in-game opponents or at posters with diametrically opposed views.... the accusations may include anything from hypocrisy to blatant dismenation of untruths or even in-game cheating.
Once an accusation is brought forward.... something very odd happens... the readership unconsciously becomes the jury and the 'trial by forum' phenomenum arises.
If the defendant does not respond or provides answers with no substance.... he will probably be viewed as guilty by the readers...this happens wether we like it or not.. it just happens.
This happens in pretty much every thread of any interest (including this one). The most interesting threads are actually the ones where the highest profile personalities or entities throw accusations at eachother... it makes for compulsive viewing and also provides an additional arena where in-game combatants can win the "hearts and minds" campaign that accompanies any conflict.
The forums as they are play a vital role in providing additional immersion into the roles that our characters play in-game, they bring the community together by providing compulsive reading....and as was stated by the OP even those that don't like the forums much can't help but take an interest in what happens here.
I rest my case..
[edit:typo]
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jeNK
Caldari
STK Scientific
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.16 09:19:00 -
[114]
Do you ever stop lying Nez? I smacked you first?
The "My Little Pony" forums was just an innocent suggestion.. do you want to pull the other one this time? It has bells on it!
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Nez Perces
Amarr
Black Spot.
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Posted - 2006.11.16 13:30:00 -
[115]
Originally by: jeNK
Do you ever stop lying Nez? I smacked you first?
....OMG .. now you are calling me a liar....
see you in court buddy.... my Jita lawyers will have a field day !!!
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Petwraith
Forum Moderator
Interstellar Services Department
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Posted - 2006.11.16 15:00:00 -
[116]
Op post was Non-constructive, Ranting and contained at least one Troll/Flame. For these reasons I have sent the lockzor buddy below to work his magic.
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If it ain't orange, it ain't offical! |
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