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Christopher Multsanti Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.11.13 20:03:00 - [31] Originally by: DB Preacher Otherwise you just end up looking like another lonely alt of aneu. There is just no need. [ER Public Relations Officer] [Is main activated, check, Post!]
XoPhyte Out Siders Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.13 20:18:00 - [32] Originally by: Nero Winger But when you want mine and make 300m isk per day and sell it on E-Bay then be aware that PvP alliances hold the entire 0.0 and you will have to fight for your right to do what you want in 0.0. Originally by: Shamis Orzoz Most people in eve would rather win than have a good fight
Serapis Aote TBC	Posted - 2006.11.13 20:30:00 - [33] I have no idea how bob actually works. This is how it appears to me. A small number of number of corps. All of which are completely self sufficient. PvPers do industry and Indsutry guys PvP. A tight knit heirarchy of good leaders who make quick decisions. A common Goal. Large numbers of players who enjoy playing together. As to the lapdogs. To me as an outsider. It just looks like Bob grabbed all the regions next to Delve. But they dont have enough players fill those regions in BOB. So they let people they like live there and so they have a nice buffer. I have no idea how that actuall works but that what it looks like to me. Small number of leaders, all self sufficient and actually all like eachother. More of friendship then an alliance of necessity.
Logan Feynman Constructive Influence	Posted - 2006.11.13 20:43:00 - [34] Originally by: Serapis Aote I have no idea how bob actually works. This is how it appears to me. A small number of number of corps. All of which are completely self sufficient. PvPers do industry and Indsutry guys PvP. A tight knit heirarchy of good leaders who make quick decisions. A common Goal. Large numbers of players who enjoy playing together. As to the lapdogs. To me as an outsider. It just looks like Bob grabbed all the regions next to Delve. But they dont have enough players fill those regions in BOB. So they let people they like live there and so they have a nice buffer. I have no idea how that actuall works but that what it looks like to me. Small number of leaders, all self sufficient and actually all like eachother. More of friendship then an alliance of necessity. QFT It's very, very, very simple. And it works. Thank you. Thank you very much.
Thardoz Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.13 23:12:00 - [35] Originally by: Serapis Aote More of friendship then an alliance of necessity. Right on the spot. I've been in two alliances before joining BoB, which were actually fighting BoB and were brought down by BoB. Back in these days of old I could have given you a list of fleet commanders in my (then) alliances for which I'd rather not have risked my neck. Or a list of corporations in the own alliances which I'd rather not have watching my back. And that was actually even before the first shots were fired. In BoB I don't care if I'm the only RKK in a gang full of Dice, BNC, Evol or TAOSP, as that is no relevance whatsoever. I wouldn't even be the least bit worried if the fleet commander was a BNC.E or COIN, because first and foremost we are nothing but a Band of Brothers.
Namelesz Dismemberment	Posted - 2006.11.13 23:19:00 - [36] I agree with what some people saying that big alliances have some of the best industrialists out there. But its funny that some of the better ones are just alt characters of the hard-core PvPers who have been training for . . . oooh shiny thing shiny thing . . . Tier2 Bship Lottery Round 2
Deirdre Skye Caldari Capital Traders	Posted - 2006.11.13 23:47:00 - [37] Edited by: Deirdre Skye on 13/11/2006 23:48:35 BoB are probably the smartest allaince about its really as simple as that. They have smart people at the top who seem to hire the right candidates. Look at some of the names amongst them have been in all kinds of corps/ allainces and won any number of big events and generally been around the 'eve block' a few times. Seriously solid veterans who know the eve universe works on every level that it can be played. As for its model maybe someone in BoB should be describing it what it is not some random non-BoB. I am guessing they play a game to win and play a good game at that and if anything their presence enables us to raise our game because they have such a good standard of play. I read Rod Blaines 0.0 guide for solo people its very good. Perhaps more guides by the BoB people would be of use to the community. You guys seem to know it all hats off to you.
Dark Destiny Evolution	Posted - 2006.11.13 23:59:00 - [38] Edited by: Dark Destiny on 14/11/2006 00:01:28 Trust, That is the strength of BoB. We trust our leadership implicitly and with good reason. I'd trust any member of BoB to back me up whenever and however its called for. The rest is simply the parts inbetween Can ASCN say the same? Only thing you can be sure of in life is that you will die.
Beringe Caldari Raptus Regaliter	Posted - 2006.11.14 00:06:00 - [39] Meh, BOB are power players. Evolution has been with Eve in one form or another since beta, and I find it sort of amusing that people think they don't do the whole carebear bit. They built their own titan, for crying out loud! Of course it comes down to dedication. And skill, of course, but that improves with dedication. Look, I'm not going to play that dumb "omg they live in their parent's basement and play 24/7" card. Suffice to say that it's no surprise that BOB is the strongest alliance, with the combined forces of so many dedicated veteran players who know the game, and almost no "dead weight" that can't support itself. I can't say I like them, but I'm not opposed to their empire building scheme ('slave corps', yada yada). In fact, that's one of the things I like about this game. ------------------------------------------- "Sarcasm and irony are not to be used by the uninitiated." --Daitan Beringe, honorary director in charge of bottles--
Drusus Rensus Gallente Klima Galactic	Posted - 2006.11.14 00:11:00 - [40] Interesting discussion. Just to address a few of the things I see being thrown out there: This doesn't fit, because BoB has Industrialists. Of course they do. That's what second and third accounts are for, right? From what I've seen you can buy a pretty uber industrial character for what? 8bn? A pittance if you're out there trying to conquer the known galaxy. If you're going to adopt the BoB model, you need to recognize that, to "win" you need those players, and only those players, who will focus on what takes player skill (PvP) and just make the industrial stuff a background task for your additional accounts and/or alts, because it doesn't require much player skill, only skill points, which, in Eve, can be bought. Actual people or corporations who focus on industry don't have a place in your alliance. They are just an unnessessary hole through which a ruthless enemy can pass spies, and they will be the first ones that an enemy can "turn" with promises of better opportunities and more isk after a war. This doesn't fit because BoB Doesn't Rely on Peasants for their Production. I didn't say they did. They rely on them for one thing: to pay rent, or tribute in some other form (cut of the minerals, fuel, whatever) in return for being allowed to stay in BoB claimed space. Of course they'd never be allowed to be a critical link in the supply lines. That's not what peasants are for. Peasants are for deriving additional income from vast holdings that you couldn't hope to utilize effectively by yourself. I think the BoB Model is Evil Nope, didn't say that either. What I did say was that it has a pretty good shot at allowing them to effectively take over the game as the game stands today. I note in the responses here that nobody from BoB said that their objective wasn't to take over the game, or that the broad strategy that I outlined wasn't in fact the one they're following to do it. Since BoB has made clear that they don't mind lying to further their in-game objectives (i.e. lying to get their spies into opposing alliances) I think you'd have to take what they might respond with here with a grain of salt. Anyone who has a stake in this would be better served to watch them, rather than listen to them. If they succeed against ASCN, and then proceed to move "caretakers" into ASCN space, you might just want to read this post again. Divide, demoralize, conquer, passify, subjugate, expand, repeat. That's the way Empires have been built for several thousand years. If you don't want to become part of that empire, you might want to pay attention.
Nimbu Gallente J.I.T. Enterprises Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.14 01:04:00 - [41] Edited by: Nimbu on 14/11/2006 01:13:16 Originally by: Pepperami How did bob build a titan with no industrialists? /me points to Dian, sure he had something to do with it, :D I think the reason they work so well is because their members dont make distinctions between Industrialists or PVPers. Each member contributes what the alliance needs at the time. 99% of the above is said in RP. The Other 1% is personal, and should be taken that way. :P
Dracorimus Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.14 01:09:00 - [42] Lets just say for simplicities sake, we do what needs to be done. Thats it in a nutshell. - Ferocious FeAr > bob are****got pussies Admiral Goberius > taking advantages of bugs again? /me applauds
Klaryssa Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.14 03:01:00 - [43] I laughed. Everyone knows TAOSP is our industry alt-slave corp.
DeltaH Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.14 03:23:00 - [44] I think BoB is successful mostly due to honesty. There is no real question to what is expected. This is in regards to members, friends, and enemies. Everything. -DeltaH ---
slip66 Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.14 03:51:00 - [45] the model is simple... 1) great leadership 2) group focus 3) hard work 4) trust 5) execution Thats it right there. Simple really. Originally by: StOrM ViPeR Theres a skill called surgical strike in game I've learned that it actually stands for Band of Brothers
Eskalin Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.14 04:01:00 - [46] Originally by: Pepperami How did bob build a titan with no industrialists? Evolution din't build it it was birthed fully formed out of Molle's head, like athena but cooler
Mrs Sexamalicious Gallente Sexa Inc	Posted - 2006.11.14 04:26:00 - [47] I would just like to say to the OP, I found your write up to be very entertaining. It's accuracy or lack of is beside the point. You're write up brought me a visual event, if ever one would have occurred, involving Titus Livius and Niccolo Machiavelli.(Toe to Toe)
Liet Traep Minmatar Black Lance Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.11.14 04:36:00 - [48] This game isn't BoB Online. I don't see the point of this thread. Yes BoB is very successful. But we don't need another thread talking about BoB's uberness. Frankly i find the repeated postings about this one group over and over to be boring as hell. BoB has earned their success but I don't need to read about it in every other thread.
Adam C 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.11.14 04:53:00 - [49] Edited by: Adam C on 14/11/2006 04:54:00 i heard there model of based on this
Nifel Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.14 05:04:00 - [50] Originally by: Liet Traep This game isn't BoB Online. I don't see the point of this thread. Yes BoB is very successful. But we don't need another thread talking about BoB's uberness. Frankly i find the repeated postings about this one group over and over to be boring as hell. BoB has earned their success but I don't need to read about it in every other thread. Do something about it then. "When I die I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandpa. Not yelling and screaming like the passengers in his car." RKK Ranking: (MIN14) Sama
Farham Gallente AWE Corporation Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.14 05:06:00 - [51] And here I thought the title of this thread was "The BOOB Model". Greatly disappointed am I that there aren't copious amounts of fleshy globes...
Rebellion Caldari Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.14 05:36:00 - [52] I wasn't aware that we had a model. BoB just has people that enjoy playing with each other and keep on changing and improving things to be able to better enjoy playing with each other. The style of play now is a result of a continuous process of evolution since the beginning. There is always something that can be improved, people should be worried when things appear to be perfect as they are. Whether or not the style is a good one remains to be seen. Think of this like an RTS game with a set opening build sequence and a midgame strategy. We haven't reached the endgame yet so we don't know if the overall strategy is good. If it gets proven to be bad, then we will change the build and start from scratch. If you are not afraid of losing, then you can afford to be be beaten and come back with a different strategy. If you are afraid, then you will try and force yourself to make the strategy work, often stretching it too thinly in trying to make it fit that it breaks completely. This is why ships and possessions in EVE are of lesser value to the people in your alliance.
Manas The Graduates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.14 05:55:00 - [53] Any Thucydides fans out there? Analogies abound. (Or at least a good role play opportunity). TGRAD info & video here
Trina Tron Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.14 06:25:00 - [54] Actually I think every alliance should adopt a "bob model" but not for any of the reasons you state, most of which arenÆt even true. MC has a bob model which you know figures since bobits our are indi alts after all. 1) Wrong I'm ex-atuk (now dice) I never played more then 5h when I was in. When I joined conin I told them I would only play 5h a week sometimes I play a lot more sometimes I donÆt log in. I wont get up for any ops that arenÆt in my time zone and I wont feel bad about it, everyone In my corp. knows this. 2) I don't know maybe this is true maybe not but even if it is its not what makes bob "successful" or why an alliance should adopt a bob model 3) I donÆt think bob use "propaganda" They say their opinion but they always back it up with facts. Maybe you wouldnÆt draw the same conclusion from the same facts but thatÆs not propaganda thatÆs their position. This takes place in a open forum where everyone can discuss it so if their were no facts to back bob up this "propaganda" would really work more against them then for them. 4) No one that lives in bob space could prove a real and deadly Challenge to bob. Fix got owned last time I checked by bob. Mc would get out blobbed to hell and back. Xales couldnÆt hold their station from ascn. Fact is No one who lives in any bob space could affect bob much if bob felt like squashing them including the mc. As far as your second point no one in fix/xales/mc is fighting ascn either so your point is sort of stupid maybe their are other reasons why they are not involved in the war AT ALL 5) Why do people need reasons to pvp in a game???? Who cares if you have a good reason or not if they want to do something on the Internet game I say let them do whatever. Bob wasnÆt "formed" to take over space and make people pay rent yeah maybe they do that but its not like their soul purpose or something. So what is the "bob model" 1) Tight knit leadership - The reasons most alliances die is because of drama. The less people you have on the top the less disagreement their will be and thus the less drama their will be. Honestly thatÆs the true strength of an alliance like bob. 2) Clear alliance wide goals - With out a dream your alliance is nothing, with out clearly defining that dream its not achievable, without the right leaders the actions wont be set in motion. Bob are very good at dreaming big, outlining a plan, then achieving it. 3) Ceo Internal Corp autonomy - What do I mean? I mean the ceo needs to feel like they our the absolute boss of their corp. and they will do what is necessary to make sure his corp dose what it needs to do. And NO ONE can tell the ceo other wise. Now of course this is absolute autonomy is only applicable to internal policy dictions something like who is allowed inside of the corp. or how they recruit or how they run their industrial side. Sometimes #2 and 3 can interfere with each other a good ceo knows how to balance it . Bob might be internet eve leet with their sp, their isk, their epeens, but thatÆs not why their successful. If you think that it is their sp,isk,epeens that make them so then you donÆt even start to get what eve is. ----------------------------------- Originally by: Santiago Cortes Locked Begging is not allowed or appreciated on the forums. Whining remains perfectly acceptable.
ZelRox Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.14 09:38:00 - [55] Edited by: ZelRox on 14/11/2006 09:40:34 I play eve from 15 min to 6 hours a day. I have an alt that has 5 mil in industry, can fly exumers and freighter. :) Nuff said In RKK fashion it can also fly Sigil for loot scooping :) But until Dian gets his titan, Molle > RKK on the loot front. ---------------------- BiH 4tw
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.14 10:09:00 - [56] BoB undoubtedly has a succesful model, but its not that special really, except perhaps for the scale its on. I've been playing Eve for almost a year, before that I was playing WoW in a highend raiding guild. In WoW we beat the crap out of anyone on the server (though that never had a lasting effect, which is why I left for Eve), even though on an individual basis we weren't even necessarily the best PvPers on the server. I know I certainly wasn't. But as a team we were practically unbeatable. Key elements for a succesful corp: - Great leaders, you need one clear leader and some good officers who have authority and can take initiative. - Weed out idiots and deadbeats (or make sure to avoid recruiting them) - Keep your core active, sharp and happy. - Everybody works, everybody fights. - Only recruit veterans, and/or powerplayers. What you will then have is a very succesful group of people, who can do five times more than a similar sized group without those characteristics. And once you've established a group like that, your reputation ensures you can keep attracting whoever you want, and you can just cherrypick the good ones.
Fi T'Zeh Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.14 10:20:00 - [57] I'd just like to pull out the "Only pick veterans and power players." part. Speaking for Evolution, which is all I can do. I can think of at least 6 recruits in the last year that we have taken who have had less than 10m SP, and very little ingame experience. To put that in perspective, I'd say that in the twelve month period to the start of November, Evolution has recruited around 20 new players. What matters to Evolution, and I'm sure to my brothers, is attitude. If you're willing to learn, participate and listen to instructions on TS you are far more useful to me than a 40m SP leet dewd who thinks he knows it all. Growing your own newbs is for the win. .... Real men use blasters
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.14 10:29:00 - [58] Originally by: Fi T'Zeh I'd just like to pull out the "Only pick veterans and power players." part. Speaking for Evolution, which is all I can do. I can think of at least 6 recruits in the last year that we have taken who have had less than 10m SP, and very little ingame experience. To put that in perspective, I'd say that in the twelve month period to the start of November, Evolution has recruited around 20 new players. What matters to Evolution, and I'm sure to my brothers, is attitude. If you're willing to learn, participate and listen to instructions on TS you are far more useful to me than a 40m SP leet dewd who thinks he knows it all. Growing your own newbs is for the win. Note the 'and/or' instead of 'and' in my post. I wrote that exactly for the point you are making. And with powerplayers its not just about time ingame, its about willingness to give 100% to achieve a specific objective and make everything subservient to achieving that objective.
Nymos Celtic Anarchy Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.14 10:33:00 - [59] well, it's funny. no matter how a 0.0 alliance does things it's always wrong. first people whine that they can't enter 0.0 and are not allowed to setup in 0.0 because alliances bully them around and they don't want other corps in their space. then they are lame because they have more numbers than the average 10-man empire corp. now bob is bad because they let other corps/alliances live in their space? and those corps are peasents? lol? i'm pretty sure that whatever corps are setup in their space have some contracts for supplies in exchange of other resources and have to help in defense of that space (obviously?), but tell me why in the first place should one bother to claim space if you're not allowed to rule over it? would you be happier with three regions of resources that are totally empty? and if bob is so bad then ****it, go and fight bob. whining about how bad they are doesn't help or change things the way you want it. grab the broadsword and do something about it lol. --
OzaLoni Gallente Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.14 10:39:00 - [60] Originally by: Thardoz In BoB I don't care if I'm the only RKK in a gang full of Dice, BNC, Evol or TAOSP, as that is no relevance whatsoever. I wouldn't even be the least bit worried if the fleet commander was a BNC.E or COIN, because first and foremost we are nothing but a Band of Brothers. Someone give this guy a cookie... That is it in a nutshell, nothing else needs to be said!

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