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Irongut M'8'S	Posted - 2006.11.14 12:32:00 - [61] Originally by: Drusus Rensus The more space your conquer, and the more peasants you have working for you and paying tribute to your ôleetö PvP alliance Originally by: Drusus Rensus The worst mistake you could make would be thinking that BoB wonÆt attack you unless you have acknowledged that your space it their space, and are paying them rents. If you arenÆt paying them rent, you will be their target. Originally by: konkord Originally by: Pepperami How did bob build a titan with no industrialists? by having the people that they charge to live in their space, mine for them. BoB slave corps. Its how BoB manage to encompass the ideology of pure PvP; sectioning off and allying themselves with corporations who basically pay BoB for protection money. How many times do we have to tell you people? I've been in corps and alliances you would call BoB slaves or lapdogs for over a year and we've never paid BoB to stay in their space. We don't pay tribute, rent or protection money and we don't mine for them. They don't have any say over how we run our corps or alliances (other than maintaining the same standings) and they don't make demands of us. We are friends.
Lone Bear Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.14 12:35:00 - [62] Originally by: Irongut How many times do we have to tell you people? I've been in corps and alliances you would call BoB slaves or lapdogs for over a year and we've never paid BoB to stay in their space. We don't pay tribute, rent or protection money and we don't mine for them. They don't have any say over how we run our corps or alliances (other than maintaining the same standings) and they don't make demands of us. We are friends. That's a point that many refuse to admit or understand.
Irimi Nage Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.14 12:35:00 - [63] I'm a model, you know what I mean? I shake my little tush out on the catwalk. Out on the catwalk yeah. ---
Umbriele Gallente Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.14 12:45:00 - [64] You have no idea about how we work. I'll not insult you here but you deserve it.
Ascend Alt Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.14 13:04:00 - [65] Originally by: Hast In regards to the Intelligence part. It doesent mean diddley squat that you know where the enemy fleet is if you dont have a equal or better fleet to destroy it. It seems the tinfoil-hat brigade puts too much weight into the spying buisness. Of course knowing what the enemy does while he doesent have a clue about what you are up to helps. But when the fleets are within 150km of eachother the playing field is level and the battle comes down to the skill of the players involved and the fleet commanders. Intelligence is good when it comes to setting up the pieces but when it comes down to the good old fashioned slugfest it does not matter at all. What absolute nonsense. If you (i) know the fleet make up of your enemy in advance (ii) know what he is planning to do in advance (iii) know when he is planning to warp in (iv) know what range he is planning to warp in at; and (v) have people in the enemy gang or on TS to sow confusion then it makes a huge difference to the outcome. Even if it does nothing more than make ASCN FC so paranoid that they cant communicate to the gang members clearly for fear of your flippin spies. You cheat. End of story.
Jossua Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.14 13:06:00 - [66] Originally by: Umbriele You have no idea about how we work. I'll not insult you here but you deserve it. pssst Umbrie, we are just seconds. We have no full time job in EVE
slave111 Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2006.11.14 13:22:00 - [67] I stopped reading once I got to the bit about you thinking that an alliance should kick it's industry folks so I don't have a clue if any of the rest has any value. What I will say is that if you think an alliance/corp can function without a industry orainated infastructure of some description then you are sadley mistaken. I am not about to comment on how my corp or alliance functions but just compare any alliance to any civilian service with in socity out side of our basments. The British Royal Marines are a extremley profecinial unit that function very well but without external orginisations they are crippled. This goes for every single alliance without exception so to that end every single alliance including BoB needs it's industry wing be it within or external from the corp.. Prove me wrong, but by trying to you will be stating that your alliance does not mine, npc, haul, use market, *** loot! ------------------------------------------------ Minority report:Father Tommaso Caccini denounced Galileo's opinions on the motion of the Earth, judging them dangerous and close to heresy**
Raem Civrie Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.11.14 13:27:00 - [68] Edited by: Raem Civrie on 14/11/2006 13:27:02 First and foremost, BoB's strength is in their morale - their esprit de corps. This morale has been created through their past success, a fair amount of propaganda (what's the point if everyone doesn't know about your exploits?) and their overall discipline. Alliances are broken on morale, nothing more, nothing less. There's also the fact that BoB's leaders make a point of fighting on the front lines, latest seen with Molle showing up in his titan. BoB realized that the value of the titan isn't in it's actual combat value (where it, unfortunately, sucks. People have ample time to escape the blast of the doomsday weapon, and a nominally-tanked fleet battleship has a decent chance of surviving it, it's turrets suck due to lack of siege mode. Does have fighters, at least), but rather it's effect on morale. Not to mention the gang bonuses rock. I myself would never try to employ the "BoB Model" completely, but then again large parts of this "Model" you talk about aren't unique to BoB. Spies, intelligence-fed propaganda, all that... it's fair game, and something I wouldn't personally shy away from. As for BoB's general wartime conduct, "Divide and Conquer" is one of the very cornerstones of any theory of control, and has been mastered by BoB. Half the time their enemies just run around in circles fighting each other. But yes, they do bear some similarity to Expansionist Rome. P.S. I think the main reason MC set up shop in Delve is because the region is stable, other than most in EVE. If I'm going to be renting space, I want to make sure it won't change owners every three months, or be forced to fight for it every other week. P.P.S <3 Dafuzz ---- All you do is bark. You never meow.
Dyntheos Naabal Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.14 13:48:00 - [69] All the talk of propaganda being bad and spies and whatnot makes me miss the days of HG and Endless Corp, when he was heading it up before he joined evol for a stint. Back in the old days eve was downright EBIL. , nothing like todays happy happy joy joy land of honor and holding hands. Some people need to read up on thier eve history and what this game is really all about, not just it's mechanics but it's heart and soul, its passionless void of evil empires and massive corporations all fighting for control. Hell read some of the chronicles even, if you are new, to get some perspective, because all this "fair play" attitude is totally divorced from the reality, the cold harsh reality, of where this game is set. It's not in warcraft land with elves and cows, it's the brutal, stark and merciless void of a universe bent on subjugation and conflict to the benefit of those that can sieze power and hold it, and to the detriment of those that do not have the will to survive.
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.14 13:57:00 - [70] Originally by: Ascend Alt Edited by: Ascend Alt on 14/11/2006 13:14:31 Originally by: Hast In regards to the Intelligence part. It doesent mean diddley squat that you know where the enemy fleet is if you dont have a equal or better fleet to destroy it. It seems the tinfoil-hat brigade puts too much weight into the spying buisness. Of course knowing what the enemy does while he doesent have a clue about what you are up to helps. But when the fleets are within 150km of eachother the playing field is level and the battle comes down to the skill of the players involved and the fleet commanders. Intelligence is good when it comes to setting up the pieces but when it comes down to the good old fashioned slugfest it does not matter at all. What absolute nonsense. If you (i) know the fleet make up of your enemy in advance (ii) know what he is planning to do in advance (iii) know when he is planning to warp in (iv) know what range he is planning to warp in at; and (v) have people in the enemy gang or on TS to sow confusion then it makes a huge difference to the outcome. Even if it does nothing more than make ASCN FC so paranoid that they cant communicate to the gang members clearly for fear of your flippin spies. Shhhhhhh. Don't say that. You're gonna hurt their tender feelings, the poor darlings. Only BoB is allowed to spew lies about everyone and using teamspeak spies is WAY COOL and proves you are the best at everything. Seriously though, maybe that is indeed the sad part. Its obvious BoB has all the things right in terms of organisation, allowing you to achieve a hell of a lot. But you are marring it with sad tactics such as TS spies, and that will always cast a dark cloud over BoBs achievements. Of course BoB will deny it has any impact and they could do without just as easily, but thats what everyone in their situation would claim. Nobody likes to admit they won through spying and similar underhanded tactics.
Hast Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.14 14:18:00 - [71] Edited by: Hast on 14/11/2006 14:20:46 I'm sorry to say that the spies spreading confusion on your Teamspeak is only your own incompetent members. I tire of this discussion. Its so easy to just shrug of your own incompetence as lame tactics of the opposing side. Its happened before and you seem to carry the tradition forward. This reminds me of the days of VOTF and the CA tbh. Now we only need someone to claim they killed 8 m0o battleships and having screenshots of it, but then his harddisk crashed.
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.14 15:03:00 - [72] ROFL Hast yeah, what about the 8 m0o BS ! Old blog
Drusus Rensus Gallente Klima Galactic	Posted - 2006.11.14 15:07:00 - [73] Thanks again for a mostly civil discussion. I'd like to stress again that my intent here wasn't to flame anyone, or to suggest that anyone's strategy was "evil". FWIW, I think I'm pretty close as to the BoB "model" or "formula", just because I gleaned it from what BoB has actually said and/or acknowledged that they do here on these boards. I could go back and pull a compilation of those things together if anyone is really interested, but there is probably no point. I saw some things that I thought were worth pointing out. Whether you agree or disagree with how I see it, if it got you to think about it, it was worth the trouble for me to write it down, and, at least it's one thread that would come up if you searched on "BoB" that didn't completely degenerate into a flame-war.
Dark Matter Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.14 16:13:00 - [74] Originally by: Dyntheos Naabal All the talk of propaganda being bad and spies and whatnot makes me miss the days of HG and Endless Corp, when he was heading it up before he joined evol for a stint. Back in the old days eve was downright EBIL. , nothing like todays happy happy joy joy land of honor and holding hands. Some people need to read up on thier eve history and what this game is really all about, not just it's mechanics but it's heart and soul, its passionless void of evil empires and massive corporations all fighting for control. Hell read some of the chronicles even, if you are new, to get some perspective, because all this "fair play" attitude is totally divorced from the reality, the cold harsh reality, of where this game is set. It's not in warcraft land with elves and cows, it's the brutal, stark and merciless void of a universe bent on subjugation and conflict to the benefit of those that can sieze power and hold it, and to the detriment of those that do not have the will to survive. If I remember rightly HellGremlin wrote alot of those chronicles.
Dark Matter Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.14 16:14:00 - [75] Originally by: Dyntheos Naabal All the talk of propaganda being bad and spies and whatnot makes me miss the days of HG and Endless Corp, when he was heading it up before he joined evol for a stint. Back in the old days eve was downright EBIL. , nothing like todays happy happy joy joy land of honor and holding hands. Some people need to read up on thier eve history and what this game is really all about, not just it's mechanics but it's heart and soul, its passionless void of evil empires and massive corporations all fighting for control. Hell read some of the chronicles even, if you are new, to get some perspective, because all this "fair play" attitude is totally divorced from the reality, the cold harsh reality, of where this game is set. It's not in warcraft land with elves and cows, it's the brutal, stark and merciless void of a universe bent on subjugation and conflict to the benefit of those that can sieze power and hold it, and to the detriment of those that do not have the will to survive. If I remember rightly HellGremlin wrote alot of those chronicles.
Buxaroo Black Dwarf Caldari Deep Space Industral	Posted - 2006.11.14 17:51:00 - [76] Originally by: Malachon Draco BoB undoubtedly has a succesful model, but its not that special really, except perhaps for the scale its on. I've been playing Eve for almost a year, before that I was playing WoW in a highend raiding guild. In WoW we beat the crap out of anyone on the server (though that never had a lasting effect, which is why I left for Eve), even though on an individual basis we weren't even necessarily the best PvPers on the server. I know I certainly wasn't. But as a team we were practically unbeatable. Key elements for a succesful corp: - Great leaders, you need one clear leader and some good officers who have authority and can take initiative. - Weed out idiots and deadbeats (or make sure to avoid recruiting them) - Keep your core active, sharp and happy. - Everybody works, everybody fights. - Only recruit veterans, and/or powerplayers. What you will then have is a very succesful group of people, who can do five times more than a similar sized group without those characteristics. And once you've established a group like that, your reputation ensures you can keep attracting whoever you want, and you can just cherrypick the good ones. Some of your points are valid, but I would have to take issue with the "veterans and powerplayers" part. I know of several people in this game with carriers/dreads and 3 times my SP who don't know the first thing about pvp or for that matter hardcore industrial stuff. Only in this game can a a 1 million SP noob make a difference in a battle with a cheap frigate and tackling gear. You cannot name another game where that is so. And like a lot of the bob people keep saying, it's the teamwork, dedication, and friendship and trust of your fellow alliance/corp mates that makes an alliance truely great.
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.14 19:23:00 - [77] Buxaroo, I am sure there are exceptions to the rules, its up to recruiters to spot them. But even if they miss the few gems that don't fall within these parameters, the corp will still do fine. As for people in carriers and dreads without a clue about PvP, they would fall under the 'avoiding idiots' part in point 2
DiuxDium Black Omega Security The OSS	Posted - 2006.11.14 19:54:00 - [78] Originally by: Pepperami How did bob build a titan with no industrialists? Thread over.
Darodem Minmatar STK Scientific	Posted - 2006.11.14 21:19:00 - [79] I counted about five posts that seemed honest and unbiased. Most of the posts were from Bob either patting themselves on the back (deserved but uninteresting and possibly hazardous in the long run) or screeching and pointing fingers at whatever seems to scare them the most. Don't be a Bob alt. The prime Players in this game need to make a choice do we allow the "elite" Pvpers to brag about an alliance that uses alts and surrogates, propaganda, forum spammage, and TS spies "game mechanics" to win or do WE ... Make it interesting. I would like to see all Bob thrall / slave corps / tenants grow a little of their own backbone and stand up for their own glory not just some "brother" alt. Having a little experience in regard to real life, Ebil nature of jingoist brotherhood and the vast majority of comfortable habitual players I know better than to expect a sudden strength of character to emerge from the community. Dear Reader the story is far from over despite the claims of bob. Bob owes you no apology. Bob deserves imitation with exceptions regarding claimed/admitted Teamspeak spies and alt spies. If you are an industrialist working in Bob territory or in empire filling bob orders you need to be afraid of two things - my new alts and Bob's next fit of insecurity. If you want a little glory of your own, instead of habitual play start fighting bob alts or stop being one.
Miss Overlord Gallente EUROPEANS	Posted - 2006.11.14 21:24:00 - [80] quickest way to get BObs respect is to take it to em like d2 did and a NAP in place - why do u think fountain is stable and rise have been kept busy as well. ASCN will eventually if they can survive get BOBs respect or a war cessatation - what will cause this an expansion of RA and or LV and or RA and or LV acquiring a titan.
Emrod Amarr Legion Du Lys Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2006.11.14 21:25:00 - [81] Who'S BOb???
zeKzn Empire of Destiny	Posted - 2006.11.14 21:28:00 - [82] Originally by: Dyntheos Naabal It's not in warcraft land with elves and cows It amuses me that you say that with your sig my thoughts are my own and do not represent the thoughts of my corp
Florio Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.14 22:13:00 - [83] Drusus Rensus - although your thoughts are reasonably well put together, your conclusions are significantly incorrect. As has been pointed out by others this is because the basis of your thoughts, the ways in which you think Band of Brothers works, are inaccurate. You share having mistaken assumptions about Band of Brothers with many other EVE players. What is amusing is that we tell people how we do it and no one wants to listen. They close their ears because to accept that the beautiful simplicity of our success all comes from true leadership is to highlight their own insurmountable inadequacy. Just in case you missed it; awesome leadership is our bones whilst every other feature of Band of Brothers is just so much flesh. Other alliances have the flesh, but not the bones.
Kronn Blackthorne 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.11.14 22:35:00 - [84] this thread was missing some sweety sig .
Lexor SLice Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.14 23:22:00 - [85] Originally by: Kronn Blackthorne this thread was missing some sweety sig . im hotter tbh, and so is my new Zaphsig v 2.0 ____________________________________________
Nira Li Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.15 00:25:00 - [86] Originally by: Lexor SLice Originally by: Kronn Blackthorne this thread was missing some sweety sig . im hotter tbh, and so is my new Zaphsig v 2.0 That's a really wierd name for your genitals You Will Cry My Name
slip66 Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.15 01:54:00 - [87] Edited by: slip66 on 15/11/2006 01:55:07 Originally by: Hast Edited by: Hast on 14/11/2006 14:20:46 I'm sorry to say that the spies spreading confusion on your Teamspeak is only your own incompetent members. I tire of this discussion. Its so easy to just shrug of your own incompetence as lame tactics of the opposing side. Its happened before and you seem to carry the tradition forward. This reminds me of the days of VOTF and the CA tbh. Now we only need someone to claim they killed 8 m0o battleships and having screenshots of it, but then his harddisk crashed. STOP!!! :) You know you loved alot of us CA Originally by: StOrM ViPeR Theres a skill called surgical strike in game I've learned that it actually stands for Band of Brothers
Durethia Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.15 03:15:00 - [88] Originally by: Drusus Rensus For any history buffs out there, the ôBoB modelö should seem familiar. ItÆs pretty much the Roman model, with a little Machiavelli thrown in. In a game where might makes right and there is a peon class player who, if given no other choice, will pay rents and tribute to the ôleetsö to be allowed to log on and mine, build, or whatever they find fun in peace, it will probably, eventually, dominate the entire game. I'll leave you with this fine quote: "In Italy, for 30 years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder, bloodshed. But they produced Michaelangelo, Leonadro Da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love, 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The Cuckoo clock."
Frederick Skinner BlueMen Inc	Posted - 2006.11.15 04:20:00 - [89] Edited by: Frederick Skinner on 15/11/2006 04:22:28 Originally by: Irimi Nage I'm a model, you know what I mean? I shake my little tush out on the catwalk. Out on the catwalk yeah. What happened to Backdoor Bandit? I would have thought he would have been all over this by now ____________________ BMI sells space fuzzy dice

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