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Petition - Make Warp Bubbles prevent warp outs

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Serapis Aote TBC	Posted - 2006.11.15 14:28:00 - [31] Originally by: Crovan Originally by: Serapis Aote Edited by: Serapis Aote on 14/11/2006 22:16:38 Originally by: Wylker No derailing! Take your BPO whines to another thread! Its not a derail, you started a discussion about wanting ccp to fix something. They responed with we are working on it. Lately that has meant they are looking to either 1) do notihng 2) do something stupid 3) in either case not tell anybody for awhile So yeah, i would like to know what these grand ideas they have are for fixing it. They are losing credibility. Thei "We are looking into it" doesnt fly when they arent consulting the player base anymore, and are really screwing things up. Why dont i throw out the factional warfare and screwing over RPing corps who have been fighting this war for years. Yup...like i said they arent SOE yet, but they are sliding and close to turbine now. They need to step it back up. I know a great World of War***** guild... Seriously. It is a derail. The OP brought up a specific in-game mechanic that he wants discussed. Given Oveur's statements at FF (no matter how drunk), this thread may serve as an opportunity to solve the very problem you are complaining about, which is a lack of input from the player-base. Here people can revive the more popular alternatives worked out in other forae, as well as foster discussion for new ones. "ZOMG CCP IZ T3H SUXX0R BCUZ I DINT GET A T2 BP0 LAWLZ" (paraphrasing) is not a constructive statement. btw, /signed for Wylkypoo I just want more then "we are working on it." That flies when you are coming up with good ideas, not when the recent ideas have been a bit crap. I would like them to maybe give a hint at what solutions they might consider or be looking at. They dont really seem to be enganging the community anymore. I point out the BPO thing because it is just a recent example of them just pulling stuff out of nowhere. The factional warfare and not letting RP corps participate is another. The list goes on. There have been tons of reasonable ideas on this subject, and not 1 response from CCP, other then we are looking at it. I would love to see something like a few of the ideas are looking good. This is what we are thinking of doing, what do you guys think the effect would be. But they dont do that anymore, no back and forth anymore. Ojay now for the constructive part - I will admit my other posts were completely useless, and more of a rant. The solution i like the best is to just keep it simple and have the ship stay put for a few minutes after logging out for whatever reason. The reason i like this one is that the truth is that 8 out of 10 times if you are in a bubble you are going to die whether your computer crashes or not. It is not as if for the most part you were going to survive that encounter anyway. Yes I know its not 100%, but bubbles get you most of the time. I can live with eveyonce in awhile loosing my ship to a bubble because i DQed, because i know my chances of actual survial were pretty low regardless, and the chance of me DQing in those situations "hopefully" should be rare. I would like something like 9-10 minutes. This would also prevent people from warping to SS and logging in the future. Because it looks like the new probes can probe out a ship pretty quickly if you get a bit lucky. If you log in a SS when nobody is in system, the chances of them knowing your there, probing you out, and killing you before you disappear seems pretty low to me.
Kirazk	Posted - 2006.11.15 15:32:00 - [32] Originally by: Jiekon Oveur hinted during his fanfest speech that we would very much like this fixed, i`m sure the game design team will come up with an adequate solution to this problem. I hope the message is clear that we understand the difference between a legitimate error which causes a customer to have his game play adversely affected and a customer that is using this beneficial code to exploit the game. I hadn't realized how big a problem this was until recently. I have seen players logging on and off so fast that their avatar practically becomes a blinking green and red light on my screen. Based on the Dev comments it appears this is not an accepted form of game play. Is it possible to get a formal post in the news declaring this as unacceptable behavior with possible punishment? I would imagine it should be pretty easy to identify the chronic abusers with a simple code to flag people that have X number of relogs / X amount of time. Or is this something that should be reported? I donÆt like the reporting idea myself as it will become another outlet for the ôHighly Emotional Playerö. This isnÆt going to stop everyone from logging when they jump into a gate camp but I think there are a large number of people that are severely exploiting this and they need to be addressed. Kirazk
Agent Li	Posted - 2006.11.15 15:38:00 - [33] I already think that gate camping is something that needs to be addressed - it's an incredibly lame thing to do in the first place, and I put it up there with macro mining as a mindless waste of time. I think that they should have more ships capable of jumping and generating cynosural fields. If standing around a gate then becomes incredibly boring (or you have to patrol entire systems to keep security), that would be a big step in eradicating gate camping.
Bazan Kor STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.15 15:43:00 - [34] Hardly a waste of time if there is an enemy fleet incoming....
Agent Li	Posted - 2006.11.15 15:47:00 - [35] Originally by: Bazan Kor Hardly a waste of time if there is an enemy fleet incoming.... A proper fleet coming through would be coming through by jumping/cynosural field. Probably surprise you all sitting at the gate.
StarStryder Wise Guys Rogue Method Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.15 16:24:00 - [36] re: The survivability of bubbles To whoever said that you only have to travel 5km to escape a bubble, That is true, except that a single web kills your speed to point where you can not escape before death. I think this is the trouble with escaping gate camps, bubbled or not. Webs are just too **** effective. Fair enough, if a camp is organised and hits you with 2 or 3 then you shouldn't escape but when 1 tackler can slow you down so completely it makes the chances of escape nil.
Agent Li Galactic Defence Consortium	Posted - 2006.11.15 16:46:00 - [37] Originally by: StarStryder re: The survivability of bubbles To whoever said that you only have to travel 5km to escape a bubble, That is true, except that a single web kills your speed to point where you can not escape before death. I think this is the trouble with escaping gate camps, bubbled or not. Webs are just too **** effective. Fair enough, if a camp is organised and hits you with 2 or 3 then you shouldn't escape but when 1 tackler can slow you down so completely it makes the chances of escape nil. This has happened to me more than once.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.15 16:55:00 - [38] Originally by: Agent Li Originally by: StarStryder re: The survivability of bubbles To whoever said that you only have to travel 5km to escape a bubble, That is true, except that a single web kills your speed to point where you can not escape before death. I think this is the trouble with escaping gate camps, bubbled or not. Webs are just too **** effective. Fair enough, if a camp is organised and hits you with 2 or 3 then you shouldn't escape but when 1 tackler can slow you down so completely it makes the chances of escape nil. This has happened to me more than once. Killing, nossing, jamming, damping, smartboming or ECM bursting a single tackler isn't all that hard though either.
Locke DieDrake Human Information Virus	Posted - 2006.11.15 16:59:00 - [39] Originally by: James Lyrus Originally by: Agent Li Originally by: StarStryder re: The survivability of bubbles To whoever said that you only have to travel 5km to escape a bubble, That is true, except that a single web kills your speed to point where you can not escape before death. I think this is the trouble with escaping gate camps, bubbled or not. Webs are just too **** effective. Fair enough, if a camp is organised and hits you with 2 or 3 then you shouldn't escape but when 1 tackler can slow you down so completely it makes the chances of escape nil. This has happened to me more than once. Killing, nossing, jamming, damping, smartboming or ECM bursting a single tackler isn't all that hard though either. While I agree in princaple. It's nearly impossible to kill a tackler before his BS buddies tear you up. Almost. However, ECM and nos work well, depending on your ship size. I've run my FlyCatcher right thru large gate camps with nothing more than a MWD. And I've been cought by a single rifter and a raven. *in this last case, I was 2505 from the gate when the torps hit me. It only took one volley. The Deeper you stick it in your vien, the deeper the thoughts there is no more pain.
Spy4Hire	Posted - 2006.11.15 17:26:00 - [40] NPC should not scram, period. As for bubbles... I've escaped plenty, even in a BS in the middle of a gatecamp, without logging (yes, I have crashed on jump in a few times, only to log back in and warp right back to the bubble... no win there). I agree that ships should persist in space after logout for whatever the reason, except for those ships that have no ability to warp away even using log-xploit (freighters, et al) which should shiply vanish... when they log back in they reappear in the same spot.
Mak'shar Karrde Minmatar UK Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.15 17:32:00 - [41] Originally by: Agent Li Originally by: Bazan Kor Hardly a waste of time if there is an enemy fleet incoming.... A proper fleet coming through would be coming through by jumping/cynosural field. Probably surprise you all sitting at the gate. Erm, don't you need a Titan to jump a whole fleet without using gates?
Locke DieDrake Human Information Virus	Posted - 2006.11.15 17:35:00 - [42] Originally by: Mak'shar Karrde Originally by: Agent Li Originally by: Bazan Kor Hardly a waste of time if there is an enemy fleet incoming.... A proper fleet coming through would be coming through by jumping/cynosural field. Probably surprise you all sitting at the gate. Erm, don't you need a Titan to jump a whole fleet without using gates? Not if the fleet is all cap ships. HAHAHAHA as if. The Deeper you stick it in your vien, the deeper the thoughts there is no more pain.
Wylker The Praxis Initiative Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.17 00:35:00 - [43] Here's another great example. We were running around pewpew'ing last night and we start chasing Painball (mordus angels, ex-AAA) in his Astarte. He runs away (typical) but runs right into a FIX gatecamp...suprise!!! He immediately logs off, but we get him warp scrammed before he e-warps. We're pretty excited, because killing Painball is a real positive thing, but killing him when he does his typical logoff BS is a double bonus. Everyone and their mother starts unloading on him, when poof, the log out timer expired and the ship disappears. Just another fine example of exploiting used to overcome stupidity/lameness. Sign up here to support ending the stupidity!
Tobias Sjodin Caldari Ore Mongers SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.17 01:03:00 - [44] The thing I like about EVE is that it has surprises in store for you. You cannot always pick the field of battle, or where you end up in combat with an enemy. I think what makes EVE such a successful game, regardless of the whines from the carebears and WoW-lovers (go back to your fairy-world and leave our space the frack alone) - is that life in EVE isn't fair. It isn't a hold-your-hand through the gates deal. Sometimes your faction-fitted beloved ship ends up in a situation that wasn't of your choosing, you fracked up, and suffer the consequences. The fact that you can avoid the latter by pulling the plug on your connection, or pressing CTRL+Q is something that deviates from what I previously stated. And it's the refuge of the coward, the guy who pressed IDDQD & IDKFA, and then bragged to his friend about beating the Cyber Demon. The only difference now is, that he isn't a winner. At all, he's a **** coward. But for some reason there's a loser here, and that's the boys and girls who was supposed to end his life for not thinking (or scanning) before jumping somewhere. Change this, please, CCP. You don't answer petitions from people who lose their stuff to pirates, because they think it's unfair. You don't have a button that asks, "Are you sure you wish to warp into a gate-camp?" You certainly shouldn't have a button that, even when warping into one, saves your ass. So say we all. [ore mongers, recruiting]
Sol Flare Caldari The White Star Consortium	Posted - 2006.11.17 01:13:00 - [45] Ok... I haven't read all of the posts... Sorry, I'm running out of time at work Don't tell the boss.. How about if someone logs out and they have agro'd, ship warps to a celestial object and cloaks for 5 minutes... If user logs back in within the 5m they are returned to the point where connection dropped. If they do not log back in before the 5 mins, then the ship is uncloaked for the remaining 10m. This should only happen if a lock has been made or the drop occured while cloaked on a gate. THis is a sad issue and unfortunetly people will use it to their advantage... But the statement about tracing whether or not the player hits the quit game button won't work... I could simply just unplug my connection and simulate a genuine drop. After all... one is cloaked for approx. 20s after a gate jump, and that is long enough for anyone to reach that cat5 and... clip
Splagada Minmatar Tides of Silence	Posted - 2006.11.17 01:14:00 - [46] Edited by: Splagada on 17/11/2006 01:14:36 targeted ship : no logout warpout = no more logoffski. ship will warp when the lock is gone when logging in, STAY at the login safespot = no more logonski (well less) ------ relaxed corp looking for members
Sol Flare Caldari The White Star Consortium	Posted - 2006.11.17 03:15:00 - [47] Edited by: Sol Flare on 17/11/2006 03:18:19 Originally by: Splagada targeted ship : no logout warpout = no more logoffski. ship will warp when the lock is gone What stops someone from logging out after jumping into system with a gate camp? And locking a ship??? So they don't have to be scrambled... only locked? Given I don't like the idea of someone being able to logoff to get away... but at least require them to be scrammed. Should be part of your basic camp fittings anyhow. And ship will warp when lock is gone? So after they get popped huh... How exactly does a ship warp after being popped? Originally by: Splagada when logging in, STAY at the login safespot = no more logonski (well less) I'm lost on this point... but essentially forcing someone not to be able to play? So now you have a pod, because the ship was locked and got popped at logoff, that is stuck in their logon SS... What if it was a genuine drop? My suggestion at least gives some protection to a genuine drop for 5m and allows the player to return to face their fate. If they don't return... they are sitting at a celestial object which anyone can warp to and pop anyhow. No need for probes, just a simple scan to track down which celestial object the ship warped to.
Moraguth	Posted - 2006.11.17 03:53:00 - [48] Ok, so I'm not going to give any of my solutions because according to my roomate (a pirate, me being a carebear according to him) I'm always wrong. But, I do feel the need to tell some of the above people that they're wrong. They want it to be the same for the player who was dropped and the player who logs off because it's the same thing. That's completely untrue for warp bubbles, or general warp jamming. If you're playing the game, you have a chance to fight back, use your skills, use your modules, pay a ransom, whatever. If you get dropped, you have ZERO chance for survival if you are forced to stay where they jam you. This isn't like quake or counter strike where you can come right back after dying, there are real penalties to dying, and for that reason, you should only be penalized if you deserve it (by being caught with your pants down, or because your oponents have more money/ships/skills/whatever than you) and not penalized if the node drops or your internet connection lags you out of the game. If you change it so that everyone is forced to stay, it's not fair. That's not me *****ing, that's truth. I'll whine and complain all day long about lamer tactics that get me killed because i'm not motivated enough to get around them. But this truely isn't fair and it's not good gaming if those who want it this way got their way. My honest opinion, most of the people who want it to be impossible for you to get away from a bubble and/or impossible to get away if the internet/servers/your computer dies are people who just want free kills. People deserve a chance to fight for their freedom. If they logoff intentionally to avoid the fight, well, that sucks and they deserve what they get i guess. Conclusion :: I don't have a solution, i'm sorry, but i do know that THAT solution is wrong.
Ominus Decre The Older Gamers Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.17 04:05:00 - [49] Originally by: Old Geeza To be honest, I would rather they fixed the issues with bubbles and allow warp core stabs to save you from bubbles - give bubbles a scrambling strength of 2 so it will allow blockade runners to warp out and those ships fitted for pure travel (as with Kali stabs will nerf your targeting range and speed). Obviously, all ships would still be able to be drawn out of warp as usual. I am an interdictor pilot and I kinda like this idea. But it would be better if it remained "binary" yet the warp core stab permited "gradual" alignment for warp. Perversion:
Bohoba Caldari Dragons United Pure.	Posted - 2006.11.17 04:32:00 - [50] Originally by: Old Geeza Originally by: Miss Overlord make bubbles 50-75% affective not 100% some sort of anti bubble module with a severe nerf would also be good. Otherwise they are just a giant i - win button How can bubbles be 50%-75% effective? Being warp scrambled is a binary operation - you either are or you're not. To be honest, I would rather they fixed the issues with bubbles and allow warp core stabs to save you from bubbles - give bubbles a scrambling strength of 2 so it will allow blockade runners to warp out and those ships fitted for pure travel (as with Kali stabs will nerf your targeting range and speed). Obviously, all ships would still be able to be drawn out of warp as usual. I like the idea of the warp scrable of 2,4 6 small/med/larg and would add that the warp bubbles pull you into the middle of the bubble not STOP you at the edge that would be ok with me Get Into the Game it makes it fun for all
Pham Sirge VersaTech Interstellar Ltd. SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.17 06:31:00 - [51] Hi all, I really donÆt understand why a heuristic approach cant be taken. Note: When I say disconnect I am referring to loss of connection (timeout) from server to client. Put a counter on their account and check for disconnects... All you would need to do is keep track of disconnects with a counting function say, ships > cruiser trapped in a bubble. Also count generic disconnects and generic logouts and then check vs community averages. A person with high disconnects In bubbles should be warned and continued behaviour scores a banning. This could also be applied to the practice of logging in an alt on the same account just count the number of times it happens cross referenced with the disconnecting and you should have good grounds for to put the case to the player. , <VTIL> Pham Sirge
Wylker The Praxis Initiative Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.17 16:09:00 - [52] I'm really a big fan of the simple: if you're in a bubble or warp jammed, and you log off, you sit there. Your ship doesn't warp, your ship doesn't disappear, you just sit there, and go boom.
xenorx 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.11.17 16:37:00 - [53] They just need to remove the emergency warp altogether when aggro'd or bubbled. Problem is solved 99.9% of the time that way. The .1% of the time that you die cause you legitimatly got dropped is an acceptable loss IMO. The whole log off tactic has gotten totally out of hand. No one can hear you scream in space, so just shut up and die already.
Cryten Jones Gallente Eldritch Storm	Posted - 2006.11.17 16:39:00 - [54] Well personaly I think that not only is this point a good one but also that bubbles should pull you out of warp if placed mid warp. eg: Gate>>>>>>>>>>Bubble&Camp>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Gate This would allow for the fighting to be somewhere other than the rather predictable two sided coin we have right now. -CJ
xenorx 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.11.17 16:41:00 - [55] Originally by: Jiekon Oveur hinted during his fanfest speech that we would very much like this fixed, i`m sure the game design team will come up with an adequate solution to this problem. Oh and thank you for this post. Looking into something and doing something about it are of course two different things. Still I appreciate the quick note that CCP is aware of the issue and looking for solutions. No one can hear you scream in space, so just shut up and die already.
Locke DieDrake Human Information Virus	Posted - 2006.11.17 17:03:00 - [56] Originally by: Cryten Jones Well personaly I think that not only is this point a good one but also that bubbles should pull you out of warp if placed mid warp. eg: Gate>>>>>>>>>>Bubble&Camp>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Gate This would allow for the fighting to be somewhere other than the rather predictable two sided coin we have right now. -CJ YES PLEASE! ______________________________________________ Such a heavy burden now to be the one Born to bear and bring to all The details of our ending
Dr Einkeisel Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.17 17:45:00 - [57] The only way to solve all of this - Remove CTRL Q Have a Dev go round the world to every eve-players home and super glue there cable into the network card
Earthan Gallente The Amazing Fire Eaters	Posted - 2006.11.17 18:58:00 - [58] Originally by: Jiekon Oveur hinted during his fanfest speech that we would very much like this fixed, i`m sure the game design team will come up with an adequate solution to this problem. ah great so good to hear:) - A knight in space,war veteran. The Amazing Fire Eaters webpage
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2006.11.18 20:42:00 - [59] Originally by: Locke DieDrake Not if the fleet is all cap ships. HAHAHAHA as if. Motherships and Titans and rapid deployment! Oh wait... Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Mindlles 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.11.18 21:41:00 - [60] Originally by: Jiekon Oveur hinted during his fanfest speech that we would very much like this fixed, i`m sure the game design team will come up with an adequate solution to this problem. Hinted is not good enough, With the new patch, we atleast stop stabs, wich is great. But plz plz plz also fix this logg ofski players,, omg half off eve logg to save their pods this days, or logg when enter a bubble! This is someting that need to be fast patched!! And yeah sigend!

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