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Faction standing loss due declining normal missions - new ? or a bug ?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)
Iudex Caldari CaIdari Navy	Posted - 2006.11.15 16:49:00 - [1] Hi i've been doing missions since more than a half year now. Got my Caldari State standing to 9,89 and was looking forward for that caldari navy blueprint which you get for a faction standing of around >9.9 from an cosmos agent in otitoh. And then i see today: Faction standing loss for declining normal missions (not a storyline !) from 9.89 to 9.79. How can that be ? This must be new ? I declined hundreds of missions in the last weeks, there was always been a loss to the agent standing and towards the corporation, but never ever towards the faction so far (till today). Is this a new game feature ? If yes why didn't we get any warning or note ? (In declining-warning there it says you lose standing with agent, text is the same like before). Or is it maybe a bug ? Does someone else have it ? Is there a chance to get faction standing reimbursment ? Would be nice if someone has some facts/expiriences/infos on this issue, as this absolutely changes a certain style of missionrunning (aka "pick the best, tear down the rest").
Shinshi Casoyako	Posted - 2006.11.15 17:02:00 - [2] I dont know what you mean. You got 9,89 standing with state or navy? If its navy yes than the drop is normal, if its state than first off all mad props for getting there, than I think its a bug but I dont know. . Seriously Have I Not Said How I Can Assist Some One You Are Killing Online?
Iudex Caldari CaIdari Navy	Posted - 2006.11.15 17:09:00 - [3] Originally by: Shinshi Casoyako I dont know what you mean. You got 9,89 standing with state or navy? If its navy yes than the drop is normal, if its state than first off all mad props for getting there, than I think its a bug but I dont know. It's like i posted above, Caldari State (=faction). The loss looks tiny, but if you are around 9.8, you get only like 0.01 from storylines, sometiems you even don't see a change at all. So that 9.89 to 9.79 is a loss of at least 160 normal lvl 4 missions ... and i even dont know why, must stop doing missions till there will be more info on this issue, i guess .
Shayla Etherodyne	Posted - 2006.11.15 19:19:00 - [4] Right click on the loss, you should have a info window for the mission who caused the loss. See what it say.
William Blight	Posted - 2006.11.15 19:27:00 - [5] Yes it seems that you get a faction standing hit now for declining missions. I declined Enemies Abound earlier and took a -0.12% faction standing hit for Caldari State. It would be nice to know if this is a bug or a new feature since before you only took a corporation standing hit NOT a faction standing hit.
Egil Kolsto	Posted - 2006.11.15 19:45:00 - [6] By hit I assume you declined MORE than the regular once per every 4 hours? I am suddenly very eager to run home and check this out!
William Blight	Posted - 2006.11.15 19:57:00 - [7] Originally by: Egil Kolsto By hit I assume you declined MORE than the regular once per every 4 hours? I am suddenly very eager to run home and check this out! Yes i got the warning window that warns you that"Declining this mission...blah blah". But this was the first time i got a faction hit aswell, as stated above.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2006.11.16 09:16:00 - [8] Seen 2 thread so far with this "nice" news. Hoping for a official reply. In the meantime repost it a s a bug and/or a petition in missions.
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries Confederation of Independent Corporations	Posted - 2006.11.16 11:51:00 - [9] Didn't this happen a few weeks back too? It was a bug then, hopefully a bug now too. Now where are Jiekon and Zrakor! --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
Marranc White Star Corporation Gemini Federation	Posted - 2006.11.16 12:51:00 - [10] Lost 0.12% for declining courier mission last night, 0.12% at 9,55 faction hurts a lot. Would like to know if this is new feature or bug.
Shinshi Casoyako	Posted - 2006.11.16 13:15:00 - [11] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Didn't this happen a few weeks back too? It was a bug then, hopefully a bug now too. Now where are Jiekon and Zrakor! No the bug was that when you finsihed a mission you got a standing hit instead of a standing gain. . Seriously Have I Not Said How I Can Assist Some One You Are Killing Online?
Marranc White Star Corporation Gemini Federation	Posted - 2006.11.16 13:48:00 - [12] It makes sense, till now if you had high faction standings you could just find nice high quality agent and accept only missions that give highest isk. Even if you get to -10 with that corp. they will still talk to you because of high faction standings.
Iudex Caldari CaIdari Navy	Posted - 2006.11.16 14:09:00 - [13] Edited by: Iudex on 16/11/2006 14:28:49 Originally by: Marranc It makes sense, till now if you had high faction standings you could just find nice high quality agent and accept only missions that give highest isk. Even if you get to -10 with that corp. they will still talk to you because of high faction standings. Yes that was the isk-making tactics so far, although you may not get below -2 effective standing, or the agent/corp will never talk to you again, no matter the faction standing. But with deplomacy skill at 5 it was possible to do like a pool of 5-6 fast and highly paid missions, reject the rest and easy stay above -2 effective standing(which is around -5 without the diplomacy skill). I saw this option as a loyalty reward (as you need a faction standing of almost 7 for this) for high faction standing. It was extremely profitable, paid more than twice as much as if you do normal lvl 4s, so my first thought was ccp decided to cut this off, but on the other hand there was no info on this, no dev-blog, no changes in decline warning, and no info in patch notes. So if they really decided to abolish that high-profit tactics, why wouldn't they announce it and give at least a warning not to reject missions anymore ? So i think it was not intended as it is now, maybe a sideffect-bug of something else or so. Made a reimbursment petition, but this can take some days - no more mission declining for next time.
Khyle Gallente	Posted - 2006.11.16 21:06:00 - [14] Edited by: Khyle on 16/11/2006 21:06:45 Its in the patch notes now. But i could have sworn it was not in this morning.
Ikarushka A.O.U. Corp	Posted - 2006.11.17 01:42:00 - [15] yap, same thing happened to me, I got faction loss with every faction more or less. it's not that big but ti wasn't hapenning before ----------------------------------------- Your ad could be here :)
Iudex Caldari CaIdari Navy	Posted - 2006.11.17 02:56:00 - [16] It's like Khyle said, they now added to Patch Notes that this will happen from now on. So it's official then i guess, no bug, no mission-picking anymore. Too bad they didn't inform us earlier, before the damage to the faction standing was done .

Jiekon	Posted - 2006.11.17 09:54:00 - [17] This is intended and it should have been in the patch notes sooner. There was a little oversight in getting it into the patch notes, i can only apologise for that. The ability to "mission pick" was an exploit ___________________________ ~Jiekon Known Issues Bug Reporting ███████████████ ███████████████ ███████████████ ███████████████ ███████████████

AshrakTheWhite Red Wrath Exquisite Malevolance	Posted - 2006.11.17 11:49:00 - [18] in my opinion, this is bull****. 1) you dont get important missions all that often (only thing that significantly increases faction standing) 2) the hit is TOO HIGH i lost a bloddy level 4 agent for declining 1 mission
Estel Arador Minmatar AFK	Posted - 2006.11.17 12:41:00 - [19] Originally by: AshrakTheWhite in my opinion, this is bull****. 1) you dont get important missions all that often (only thing that significantly increases faction standing) 2) the hit is TOO HIGH i lost a bloddy level 4 agent for declining 1 mission (1) So that means you have to be carefull what you do with your faction standing (2) If you wouldn't lose access to level 4 agents this fix wouldn't have fixed the problem, right? Of course if your standing is high enough you could decide to take the hit, see (1) for details.
Dacus Alto Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2006.11.17 13:09:00 - [20] IÆm not going to comment if this is right or wrong; or if was truly an exploit. This is your game and you do whatever you consider is right from your point of view (whether or not you take in consideration the opinions of your player base itÆs another story). However, to change the way how the game works (or certain aspects of the game) and not make that change known, and then come and say that you can only apologise, it only shows how much you care about your players. Although I might be wrong, but the OP (and others like him) might have ôlostö only a few weeks of effort...I assume that they only can take it or leave it. No offence intended.
Vistilantus Caldari International House Of Pwnage Astrophobics	Posted - 2006.11.17 13:19:00 - [21] Edited by: Vistilantus on 17/11/2006 13:19:18 Originally by: Dacus Alto IÆm not going to comment if this is right or wrong; or if was truly an exploit. This is your game and you do whatever you consider is right from your point of view (whether or not you take in consideration the opinions of your player base itÆs another story). However, to change the way how the game works (or certain aspects of the game) and not make that change known, and then come and say that you can only apologise, it only shows how much you care about your players. Although I might be wrong, but the OP (and others like him) might have ôlostö only a few weeks of effort...I assume that they only can take it or leave it. No offence intended. At least he had the nuts to come in here and tell you 1) what happened and 2) that it was his fault it never made it to the patchnotes. I`m sure that CCP could have just put it into the patchnotes and said nothing further about it. why attack the devs that give out information because you lost your I-WIN button. ___________________________________________________ ~Vistilantus
Dacus Alto Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2006.11.17 13:37:00 - [22] As I said, there is no offence intended in my post. It is my opinion that, because that info was missing from the patch notes, the players affected by it should be taken care of in a way (if possible of course). I definitely do not ôattackö anyone. If my post sounded different, I apologise. P.S. I personally donÆt care about I-WIN buttons, neither the post was about any I-WIN buttons.

Jiekon	Posted - 2006.11.17 13:48:00 - [23] Edited by: Jiekon on 17/11/2006 13:49:11 I understand where you're coming from, but people have been using this exploit to get any mission they like without having to take the horrible, mundane, boring missions. Previously, people could decline as many missions as they liked without taking a faction hit. This meant that even though the agent standing and corp standing were decreasing, the faction standing (which was always high) would override the corp / agent standing, thus allowing anyone to use level 4 missions forever without being penalised for declining lots of missions ___________________________ ~Jiekon Known Issues Bug Reporting ███████████████ ███████████████ ███████████████ ███████████████ ███████████████


Zrakor	Posted - 2006.11.17 13:53:00 - [24] Note: You should still be able to decline 1 (normal)mission every 4 hours without losing any standing.

Egil Kolsto	Posted - 2006.11.17 15:08:00 - [25] Thanks Zraknor, you had me very worried for a few minutes. There are missions I DO decline due to faction hits (aka Enemies Abound) but never more than once every 4 hours.
Mikal Drey	Posted - 2006.11.17 17:23:00 - [26] hey hey cant see the problem here myself. its still protected by the 4hr rule so there shouldnt be much of an issue. maybe someone should implement some kind of non repetitiveness for missions. getting the same mission over and over again even after you rejected it once is one reason I can see for declining so often.

Jiekon	Posted - 2006.11.17 20:11:00 - [27] Originally by: Mikal Drey hey hey cant see the problem here myself. its still protected by the 4hr rule so there shouldnt be much of an issue. maybe someone should implement some kind of non repetitiveness for missions. getting the same mission over and over again even after you rejected it once is one reason I can see for declining so often. This is being looked into ^_^ hopefully fixed for Kali ___________________________ ~Jiekon Known Issues Bug Reporting ███████████████ ███████████████ ███████████████ ███████████████ ███████████████

Saldun Zexu	Posted - 2006.11.18 00:31:00 - [28] weird I'm pure agentrunner I've decline few missions and never lost any faction/corp standing. sometime I lost corp standing when my offered/accepted mission expired, but no faction lost and btw, you'll lost standing when you decline 2 or more offered missions under 4 hours. and there must be warning dialog box.
Nuifril	Posted - 2006.11.18 07:25:00 - [29] Originally by: Jiekon I understand where you're coming from, but people have been using this exploit to get any mission they like without having to take the horrible, mundane, boring missions. Is it just me that thinks that this is a game, and it should be fun, exciting and entertaining rather than "horrible, mundane & boring"? - I get enough of that at work without having to put up with it for entertainment....
Iudex Caldari CaIdari Navy	Posted - 2006.11.18 10:51:00 - [30] Originally by: Nuifril Originally by: Jiekon I understand where you're coming from, but people have been using this exploit to get any mission they like without having to take the horrible, mundane, boring missions. Is it just me that thinks that this is a game, and it should be fun, exciting and entertaining rather than "horrible, mundane & boring"? - I get enough of that at work without having to put up with it for entertainment.... I actually hate the suffered standing loss, but i can understand if the devs changed this. Just to give you an idea what was possible: You were able to only do the following missions (lps are with both lp-skills at 4/5, and a lvl 4 q 18 agent in 0.5): - Right hand of Zazzmatazz - under 5 minutes if in same system (as you only have to kill 3 ships and 1 building) = 5k lp. - Slave traders 2/2 under 10 minutes = 8,2k lp - Gurista spies in 5 minuts (as again only 6 ships have to be killed there) - Enemies abound 1/5 in 8-15 minuts (depending if you use a smartbomb, but only need to kill some certain spawns there) = 8,2k lp - Pirate invasion = 5-6k lp in bit over 10 minuts (you need only to kill 1 spawn there also) Thats all, if the agent standing got close to -2 you could do maybe a unauthorisized mil. presence or duo of death or so aswell, but mainly it was possible to do only the missions above and have a very fast lp income. But thats over now. Was this an exploit ? Well as the dev says so, it will be one, but i hope there will be no further punishment, as we could not clearly see this as an exploit. All we did was declining some missions, and declining as such is not forbidden. We saw this tactics as a kind of reward for having high faction standing, and that -2 limit showed us that devs thought about this option and limited it to -2, to avoid people doing only right hand of zazzmatazz all day long. Moreover it looks natural, the agent maybe doesnt't like you personally, but he has to speak to you as you are liked by his bosses (=faction), nothing uncommon in the business world today. So we should accept & adopt imho. I just wonder what else might be an "exploit" then: Killing only few ships to end the mission (as mentioned above)? Or using an expensive fitted CNR for missions too ? There are quite a few things that increas your profit - difficult to see now what of them is an exploit or not.

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