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nync UA Industry Red Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.16 13:51:00 - [1] Edited by: nync on 16/11/2006 13:51:50 System X have 5 moons. All with 5 large towers which belongs to alliance Y. All were put into reinforsed before DT, by alliance Z. Question: will sovereignty drop after DT and alliance Z to be able shoot station ? Or not? And if there is a written rule about it pls post link.
DHB FooFighter FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.11.16 13:54:00 - [2] same thing happened to us during the MC Siege. They put all our pos's into reinforced then tok the station right after dt without ever putting up a pos of their own. Don't consider me an expert im just stating a precedent for ya.
Goberth Ludwig eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.16 13:56:00 - [3] Originally by: nync Edited by: nync on 16/11/2006 13:51:50 System X have 5 moons. All with 5 large towers which belongs to alliance Y. All were put into reinforsed before DT, by alliance Z. Question: will sovereignty drop after DT and alliance Z to be able shoot station ? Or not? And if there is a written rule about it pls post link. yes they will be able to shoot it but you can shot it back its station ping pong because no one will have sov - Gob Originally by: SirMolle ASCN is feeling the cold, chilling tendrils of fear creep into the hearts of their alliance.
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.16 13:57:00 - [4] You cannot shoot a station unless the stationholding entity lost sovereignty. The attacking party does not need sovereignty itself in order to shoot the station, which means that also 3rd parties who have no sovereignty claims anywhere can shoot the station to claim it.
Nifel Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.16 13:58:00 - [5] A POS that's in reinforced can't claim sovereignty. So if they're in reinforced mode before/after dt sovereignty should drop in the system and you can take the station. If you don't kill the POS:es though they'll just claim the system again next dt. "When I die I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandpa. Not yelling and screaming like the passengers in his car." RKK Ranking: (MIN14) Sama
Bazman Caldari Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.16 13:59:00 - [6] didn't sov need 5 days to change? Even if it was just from reinforced POS not claiming sov ----- OMG READ TUXFORD!!!1
Mirasta Caldari Enigma Enterprises Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.11.16 14:01:00 - [7] Edited by: Mirasta on 16/11/2006 14:02:34 I Think this is more of a question as to weather or not reinforced POS contribute to a sov claim. Not fast enough, question was answered above mine, ignore this post. Of couse, You are now reading my sig.
Darcuese Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.16 14:01:00 - [8] Originally by: Bazman didn't sov need 5 days to change? Even if it was just from reinforced POS not claiming sov logic is one thing...reality is completely other....ask CCP Darth Solo=McCready...in different package
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.16 14:02:00 - [9] Edited by: Malachon Draco on 16/11/2006 14:07:02 A POS that claimed sov before BEING PUT into reinforced will claim sov again immediately after coming out of reinforced (immediately as in after the next DT AFAIK), no new 5 day waiting period.
Robet Katrix Beagle Corp	Posted - 2006.11.16 14:05:00 - [10] once all of the towers in a system are in reinforced soveignty will drop at downtime. Since no tower in re-inforced can claim sov, no sov will be claimed at next DT If you fear this, you should be theoretically able to allow 1 POS to come out of re-inforced during DT allowing you to hold onto sovereignty for another day. (could be wrong)

putukas Enterprise Estonia Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.11.16 14:08:00 - [11] GM-s should give us more server juice for the action coming soon :)
nync UA Industry Red Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.16 14:10:00 - [12] Edited by: nync on 16/11/2006 14:11:11 Originally by: Nifel A POS that's in reinforced can't claim sovereignty. So if they're in reinforced mode before/after dt sovereignty should drop in the system and you can take the station. If you don't kill the POS:es though they'll just claim the system again next dt. You are wrong. According to GM Q POS IN REINFORSED MODE CLAIMS SOVEREIGNTY. And you shouldn't be able to take station. It's an exploit according to CCP and you can petiton if it happens. Question is closed, thks for you replies, finally got answer grom GM after waiting for 2 hours.
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.16 14:14:00 - [13] Originally by: nync Edited by: nync on 16/11/2006 14:11:11 Originally by: Nifel A POS that's in reinforced can't claim sovereignty. So if they're in reinforced mode before/after dt sovereignty should drop in the system and you can take the station. If you don't kill the POS:es though they'll just claim the system again next dt. You are wrong. According to GM Q POS IN REINFORSED MODE CLAIMS SOVEREIGNTY. And you shouldn't be able to take station. It's an exploit according to CCP and you can petiton if it happens. Question is closed, thks for you replies, finally got answer grom GM after waiting for 2 hours. Err, calm down. The way all the posters before you described it, is the way it has been for months and months. If indeed Sov claiming POSses are supposed to continue to claim Sov in reinforced, that means that CCP has changed the rules on it VERY recently.
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.16 14:16:00 - [14] Edited by: Rod Blaine on 16/11/2006 14:18:55 Ask for i to be escalated to a senior GM, what that GM said is wrong if he at least said what you're saying. This is how it works, and how GM's have ahndled it so far: - Reinforced pos do NOT claim sov. - no online (non-reinforced) POS in a system means no sovereignty: anyone can take station. - Sovereignty changes each DT, but newly anchored POS take 5 days before their sovereignty claiming mode is actually activated (this does not go for pos that came out of reinforced, they count from day one if they were in clamining mode before being put into reinforced). So, 5 large in reinforced means no sovereignty means anyone can take the station. The 5 day count only enters the equasion when a new pos is anchored, that new one (and only that one) will only count after 5 days. Old blog
Max Teranous Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.16 14:17:00 - [15] For what it's worth, when we banged every IAC POS into reinforced overall Sov dropped during next dt. Have fun in 1V-, the home system of -V- should bring some kick ass fights, or at least node deaths Max --------------------
DeathGrip Amarr Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.11.16 14:17:00 - [16] I wish CCP would get its act together TBH. If what you say is true and its an exploit how was MC / FIX able to do this to IAC for a few days straight. AXE - Where the men work hard and the girls want to play.
Goberth Ludwig eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.16 14:18:00 - [17] lol the GM u talked to doesnt know much about eve then - Gob Originally by: SirMolle ASCN is feeling the cold, chilling tendrils of fear creep into the hearts of their alliance.
nync UA Industry Red Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.16 14:19:00 - [18] Originally by: Malachon Draco Originally by: nync Edited by: nync on 16/11/2006 14:11:11 Originally by: Nifel A POS that's in reinforced can't claim sovereignty. So if they're in reinforced mode before/after dt sovereignty should drop in the system and you can take the station. If you don't kill the POS:es though they'll just claim the system again next dt. You are wrong. According to GM Q POS IN REINFORSED MODE CLAIMS SOVEREIGNTY. And you shouldn't be able to take station. It's an exploit according to CCP and you can petiton if it happens. Question is closed, thks for you replies, finally got answer grom GM after waiting for 2 hours. Err, calm down. The way all the posters before you described it, is the way it has been for months and months. If indeed Sov claiming POSses are supposed to continue to claim Sov in reinforced, that means that CCP has changed the rules on it VERY recently. I'm ok m8, just bit ****ed off with the way CCP change rules and in no way are letting us know about changes.
MACTEP Solar Dragons Red Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.16 14:20:00 - [19] Originally by: Goberth Ludwig Originally by: nync Edited by: nync on 16/11/2006 13:51:50 System X have 5 moons. All with 5 large towers which belongs to alliance Y. All were put into reinforsed before DT, by alliance Z. Question: will sovereignty drop after DT and alliance Z to be able shoot station ? Or not? And if there is a written rule about it pls post link. yes they will be able to shoot it but you can shot it back its station ping pong because no one will have sov - Gob Wrong answer...... IF GM said YES - so you ll be able to Shoot IF GM ll say NO - so there will be former sovereignty What you can do? nothing...Enjoy EvE
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.16 14:20:00 - [20] I doubt they changed them, the GM probably got it wrong. Escalate to senior gm Old blog

nync UA Industry Red Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.16 14:22:00 - [21] Originally by: Max Teranous For what it's worth, when we banged every IAC POS into reinforced overall Sov dropped during next dt. Have fun in 1V-, the home system of -V- should bring some kick ass fights, or at least node deaths So i quess GM's reply makes you ebil sploiters No fun in 1v- so far, ppl too busy moving staff out of station
Darcuese Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.16 14:27:00 - [22] Anyway...Its a bit funny watching RA guy asking question about POSes on forums And secondly...this 5 days, as i understude it, was ment to give defenders 5 days preparation of not loosing station over night. Every change CCP made didnt doing anything to prevent it...couse in the end, with calculated plan...you can take a station over night. Taking station = no opponent can dock. and even if its only for few hours, unnecesary damage was allready done Darth Solo=McCready...in different package
Goberth Ludwig eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.16 14:29:00 - [23] Originally by: MACTEP Originally by: Goberth Ludwig Originally by: nync Edited by: nync on 16/11/2006 13:51:50 System X have 5 moons. All with 5 large towers which belongs to alliance Y. All were put into reinforsed before DT, by alliance Z. Question: will sovereignty drop after DT and alliance Z to be able shoot station ? Or not? And if there is a written rule about it pls post link. yes they will be able to shoot it but you can shot it back its station ping pong because no one will have sov - Gob Wrong answer...... IF GM said YES - so you ll be able to Shoot IF GM ll say NO - so there will be former sovereignty What you can do? nothing...Enjoy EvE Then rod is right and you should escalate. I am 100% sure because we did it too in pnq against Xelas. If all poses are in reinforced then sov drops - or all of eve has been 'sploiting so far - Gob Originally by: SirMolle ASCN is feeling the cold, chilling tendrils of fear creep into the hearts of their alliance.
nync UA Industry Red Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.16 14:29:00 - [24] Originally by: Rod Blaine I doubt they changed them, the GM probably got it wrong. Escalate to senior gm No reply at all. I quess they changed it and failed to inform us.
Trooper B99 Caldari Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.16 14:29:00 - [25] OMFG HAX! Come on guys, its not the first time that GM's have been mistaken on the rules; they are human after all. Often times its because of the wording of the original petition or a misuunderstaning. Its always previously been the case that dropping POS into reinforced drops their Sov claim at DT and I've never heard anything to the contrary. As Rod says, ask for escalation to a senior GM. . Wirykomi Team Racer - COLOSSUS Championships Year 106 PvP Tournament Semi-Finalist - 2006 FanFest
Max Teranous Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.16 14:31:00 - [26] Originally by: nync Originally by: Max Teranous For what it's worth, when we banged every IAC POS into reinforced overall Sov dropped during next dt. Have fun in 1V-, the home system of -V- should bring some kick ass fights, or at least node deaths So i quess GM's reply makes you ebil sploiters No fun in 1v- so far, ppl too busy moving staff out of station Heh, when the node crashed the station went back to IAC anyway, even though we got the fees etc ?!? I think I still have a Rifter in that station actually Max --------------------
Eleese Caldari Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.16 14:31:00 - [27] Originally by: Darcuese Anyway...Its a bit funny watching RA guy asking question about POSes on forums And secondly...this 5 days, as i understude it, was ment to give defenders 5 days preparation of not loosing station over night. Every change CCP made didnt doing anything to prevent it...couse in the end, with calculated plan...you can take a station over night. Taking station = no opponent can dock. and even if its only for few hours, unnecesary damage was allready done As i understood it the 5 day rule applied to when you put a pos up turn on sovereignty claim on it.. not to do with reinforced pos's. So pos spamming didnt take instant effect... But either way the story varies on which gm you get lol
Hoshi DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.16 14:43:00 - [28] The 5 days rule was introduced so you just couldn't spam in more pos in the system then the current owner had and then take the station without attacking a single pos.
Cardassius Caldari Nun Amun Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.11.16 14:46:00 - [29] Originally by: KIAEddZ 2 Down. Explain?
Rickerman Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.11.16 14:46:00 - [30] What happens if the POS is put into reinforced and comes out again before the next downtime ? e.g. only enough stront for a few hours reinforced and it wasn't killed off ?

Goberth Ludwig eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.16 14:47:00 - [31] Originally by: nync Just got reply from senior GM stating that tower keeps claiming sovereignty while it is online, even in reinforced mode. thks for your replies. cya in space tbh that is outrageous - Gob Originally by: SirMolle ASCN is feeling the cold, chilling tendrils of fear creep into the hearts of their alliance.
Buxaroo Black Dwarf Caldari Deep Space Industral	Posted - 2006.11.16 14:48:00 - [32] ****, I just installed a clone in 1V with a Scorp.....guess I cna do a suicide run with my scorp against goonies....should score about 10 kills before a node crash or 20 goons attack me
Eleese Caldari Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.16 14:49:00 - [33] Originally by: nync Just got reply from senior GM stating that tower keeps claiming sovereignty while it is online, even in reinforced mode. thks for your replies. cya in space Thats nice but it doesnt. lol
nync UA Industry Red Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.16 14:52:00 - [34] Originally by: Eleese Originally by: nync Just got reply from senior GM stating that tower keeps claiming sovereignty while it is online, even in reinforced mode. thks for your replies. cya in space Thats nice but it doesnt. lol I can't post full GM's FATE reply , since it's forbidden, but he clearly states that it does. RA senior pos manager
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.11.16 14:54:00 - [35] Edited by: Plutoinum on 16/11/2006 14:55:56 Don't know about the rules. But things getting interesting. 1v isn't JLO, 1v has been our main operational base / fortress over many months. When I joined -V- in March, I never moved my stuff from Curse to Great Wildlands, Veritas' Old Home Region, but moved directly to the main war base in Scalding Pass. Like I said, this isn't JLO. Good luck to all, but more to us ! cdt/con-loss vs. regular log-out. A proposal ...
Stahlregen GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.11.16 14:56:00 - [36] Originally by: Plutoinum Edited by: Plutoinum on 16/11/2006 14:54:40 Don't know about the rules. But things getting interesting. 1v isn't JLO, 1v has been our main operational base / fortress over many months. When I joined -V- in March, I never moved my stuff from Curse to Great Wildlands, Veritas Old Home Region, but moved directly to the main war base in Scalding Pass. Like I said, this isn't JLO. Good luck to all, but more to us ! What the hell does this have to do with anything?
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.11.16 14:58:00 - [37] Edited by: Plutoinum on 16/11/2006 15:07:37 Originally by: Stahlregen What the hell does this have to do with anything? It has, this is the corps & alliances forum. I don't care about sovereignty rules in this moment and how the GMs decide. I care about the coming fights. But you're a goon ... /edit ok, thread got moved now ^^ cdt/con-loss vs. regular log-out. A proposal ...
Fubear Vogon Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.11.16 14:59:00 - [38] Originally by: nync Just got reply from senior GM stating that tower keeps claiming sovereignty while it is online, even in reinforced mode. Since when? MC were hammering IAC just a couple of weeks ago and they state in this very thread that they reset SOV to neutral by taking down all the towers in a System. If the rules have changed in the last few weeks, and POS warfare has been stealth nerfed, I will be very unhappy with CCP. If I had given up the time to POS siege 5 towers, and then have this dumped on me I would be doubly upset. I am glad that I got out of the whole POS warfare game a long time ago. It was broken 6 months ago, and only appears to be worse now. This really needs some developer clarification.
Happydayz FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.16 15:01:00 - [39] Originally by: Hoshi The 5 days rule was introduced so you just couldn't spam in more pos in the system then the current owner had and then take the station without attacking a single pos. Introduced, ironically enough, to counter RA lameness
The Mittani GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.11.16 15:04:00 - [40] I normally refrain from posting on eve-o except in cases of gross incompetence by CCP staff, such as this one. In this case, my sources inform me that this is a simple code bug, but it is not within CCP's power to fix it without rebooting the server. That's fine: admit it is a bug and move on. What I do find most bothersome is that CCP GMs are apparently telling people that the rules are different about sovereignty now, essentially proclaiming the sky to be green when all of us POS warriors know it to be blue, rather than having the guts to simply admit that it's a bug and that they can't fix it without rebooting the server, which they are unwilling to do. This is a very poor move from a marketing perspective on CCP's part. You can't alter the rules on the fly to cover for shoddy coding; it doesn't build confidence in the consumer. If you have a bug, admit it and we'll move on. Don't try to pull the wool over our eyes with this 'hurr reinforced pos's count for sov' nonsense.

DB Preacher Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.16 15:20:00 - [41] Originally by: nync Edited by: nync on 16/11/2006 14:11:11 Originally by: Nifel A POS that's in reinforced can't claim sovereignty. So if they're in reinforced mode before/after dt sovereignty should drop in the system and you can take the station. If you don't kill the POS:es though they'll just claim the system again next dt. You are wrong. According to GM Q POS IN REINFORSED MODE CLAIMS SOVEREIGNTY. And you shouldn't be able to take station. It's an exploit according to CCP and you can petiton if it happens. Question is closed, thks for you replies, finally got answer grom GM after waiting for 2 hours. He isn't wrong nync, that's simply the way it has worked up until now. If that has changed with a stealth move from CCP then fair enough, however we need some clarification from CCP on this. However, I think it's a good move albiet one that hinders us rather than helping us. It would mean that peeps with strong DT prescence can't simply batter every pos into reinforced 5 minutes before DT then take the station after DT. You would need to plan and siege the system for longer. dbp Caldari Alliance PVP Championship Winner Current RKK Ranking: (PSCAL6) Proficient Short Tanto
Eleese Caldari Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.16 15:28:00 - [42] Originally by: nync Originally by: Eleese Originally by: nync Just got reply from senior GM stating that tower keeps claiming sovereignty while it is online, even in reinforced mode. thks for your replies. cya in space Thats nice but it doesnt. lol I can't post full GM's FATE reply , since it's forbidden, but he clearly states that it does. So its been stealth nerfed in? or what because 2 or so weeks ago it didn't work that way. So if the gm is saying that he is either wrong or ccp needs to improve its communication significantly. I mean someone could easily plan a similar attack style to what mc used and find oh **** they still got sovereignty.
nync UA Industry Red Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.16 15:37:00 - [43] Edited by: nync on 16/11/2006 15:41:15 Originally by: DB Preacher Originally by: nync Edited by: nync on 16/11/2006 14:11:11 Originally by: Nifel A POS that's in reinforced can't claim sovereignty. So if they're in reinforced mode before/after dt sovereignty should drop in the system and you can take the station. If you don't kill the POS:es though they'll just claim the system again next dt. You are wrong. According to GM Q POS IN REINFORSED MODE CLAIMS SOVEREIGNTY. And you shouldn't be able to take station. It's an exploit according to CCP and you can petiton if it happens. Question is closed, thks for you replies, finally got answer grom GM after waiting for 2 hours. He isn't wrong nync, that's simply the way it has worked up until now. If that has changed with a stealth move from CCP then fair enough, however we need some clarification from CCP on this. However, I think it's a good move albiet one that hinders us rather than helping us. It would mean that peeps with strong DT prescence can't simply batter every pos into reinforced 5 minutes before DT then take the station after DT. You would need to plan and siege the system for longer. dbp Strategy was planned based on the system we though active atm of assault. I do believe that such changes MUST be made public before they take place. And the way customer support was dealing with my petition is absolutely awfull. RA senior pos manager
Fi T'Zeh Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.16 15:38:00 - [44] If it is now the case that POS in reinforced mode continue to claim sov then that's a pretty huge seismic shift in mechanicsm from what has been the case for the last few months. Something you'd expect to be mentioned in a patch note somewhere. Clarification from a DEV would be appreciated ASAP. There are a number of conflicts occuring in the EVE universe at the moment that are extremely sensitive to this particular game mechanic. .... Real men use blasters
Valen L'eganas Gallente Nun Amun Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.11.16 15:42:00 - [45] Edited by: Valen L''eganas on 16/11/2006 15:43:50 Edited by: Valen L''eganas on 16/11/2006 15:42:51 Yes, clarification is needed. I'm shure you guys are fed up with playing 'Pong-Station-1.0'. If someone has a strategy implented based on game mechanics from which no GM can give a straight and clear awnser. We might as well stop training for dreads and train up mining skills or whatever, cause POS warfare to gain sov is useless as it is now. Did I use the 'M' word!!? ---------------------- We don't care, what you say. I'mma do my thing, from day to day... We don't care, what you think. 'Cause in this world, it's Swim-or-Sink...
Stahlregen GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.11.16 15:49:00 - [46] So much for the talks at the fanfest about taking away the tedium from POS warfare.
Xade	Posted - 2006.11.16 15:56:00 - [47] Originally by: nync Just got reply from senior GM stating that tower keeps claiming sovereignty while it is online, even in reinforced mode. thks for your replies. cya in space Sounds as if that might be unfortunate for some. But who cares Its RA we are talking about ....hehe
Fi T'Zeh Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.16 16:00:00 - [48] Originally by: Xade Originally by: nync Just got reply from senior GM stating that tower keeps claiming sovereignty while it is online, even in reinforced mode. thks for your replies. cya in space Sounds as if that might be unfortunate for some. But who cares Its RA we are talking about ....hehe That's a pretty narrow minded view to take of such a game changing mechanic shift tbh. IT has massive repurcussions for all terrritorial warfare. Whether you like the change or not, if indeed there has been a change, the very least we could have is some notice / explanation. .... Real men use blasters
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.16 16:09:00 - [49] Originally by: Goberth Ludwig Originally by: nync Just got reply from senior GM stating that tower keeps claiming sovereignty while it is online, even in reinforced mode. thks for your replies. cya in space tbh that is outrageous - Gob It's also complete rubbish, Gob, as we both know.
Commander Rackham	Posted - 2006.11.16 16:13:00 - [50] Edited by: Commander Rackham on 16/11/2006 16:13:35 ...

Commander Rackham	Posted - 2006.11.16 16:14:00 - [51] Edited by: Commander Rackham on 16/11/2006 16:14:48 ...
Jim SJ FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.16 16:16:00 - [52] Quote: Cardassius Quote: KIAEddZ 2 Down. Explain? I think he's just counting his chickens before they've hatched. Except they aren't really even his chickens but more like his neighbors chickens, and he has mostly just been watching. But when he tells this story again, they'll be his chickens, and he will have been insturmental in the hatching process. Assuming the chickens hatch at all, if not...it'll be promptly forgotten. Because if he didn't, it would be **** hard to sell himself as a professional chicken-hatching expert to the next neighbor.
Fi T'Zeh Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.16 16:21:00 - [53] What about the possibility of an avian flu epidemic ? .... Real men use blasters
Havelcek Eve Defence Force Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.16 16:34:00 - [54] Edited by: Havelcek on 16/11/2006 16:34:06 Unless I'm horribly mistaken, we are not seeing this "change" in-game in the ASCN/BoB war. Everything I've experienced says that sovereignty drops when the POS's go into reinforced. So either the GM is incorrect or this change literally happened within the past few days. Would be nice to see some clarification though.
nync UA Industry Red Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.16 16:55:00 - [55] Originally by: Havelcek Edited by: Havelcek on 16/11/2006 16:34:06 Unless I'm horribly mistaken, we are not seeing this "change" in-game in the ASCN/BoB war. Everything I've experienced says that sovereignty drops when the POS's go into reinforced. So either the GM is incorrect or this change literally happened within the past few days. Would be nice to see some clarification though. No worries for now. Currently it's applies only to RedSwarm/-V- war. But the idea of all the petitions bombarding CCP now because of thismakes me smile RA senior pos manager
Buxaroo Black Dwarf Caldari Deep Space Industral	Posted - 2006.11.16 17:06:00 - [56] Originally by: Stahlregen Originally by: Plutoinum Edited by: Plutoinum on 16/11/2006 14:54:40 Don't know about the rules. But things getting interesting. 1v isn't JLO, 1v has been our main operational base / fortress over many months. When I joined -V- in March, I never moved my stuff from Curse to Great Wildlands, Veritas Old Home Region, but moved directly to the main war base in Scalding Pass. Like I said, this isn't JLO. Good luck to all, but more to us ! What the hell does this have to do with anything? Excuse me? It was one of your friends (KIAEdds) who brought out the "2 down" offtopic slant. So don't start calling the kettle black.
Buxaroo Black Dwarf Caldari Deep Space Industral	Posted - 2006.11.16 17:09:00 - [57] Originally by: DB Preacher Originally by: nync Edited by: nync on 16/11/2006 14:11:11 Originally by: Nifel A POS that's in reinforced can't claim sovereignty. So if they're in reinforced mode before/after dt sovereignty should drop in the system and you can take the station. If you don't kill the POS:es though they'll just claim the system again next dt. You are wrong. According to GM Q POS IN REINFORSED MODE CLAIMS SOVEREIGNTY. And you shouldn't be able to take station. It's an exploit according to CCP and you can petiton if it happens. Question is closed, thks for you replies, finally got answer grom GM after waiting for 2 hours. He isn't wrong nync, that's simply the way it has worked up until now. If that has changed with a stealth move from CCP then fair enough, however we need some clarification from CCP on this. However, I think it's a good move albiet one that hinders us rather than helping us. It would mean that peeps with strong DT prescence can't simply batter every pos into reinforced 5 minutes before DT then take the station after DT. You would need to plan and siege the system for longer. dbp But don't you see dbp? This means its a bit more fair. Myself, I cannot be on during DT because I am at work. Same for most US/East coast workers.
Fi T'Zeh Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.16 17:21:00 - [58] That's exactly what he said... .... Real men use blasters
DB Preacher Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.16 17:36:00 - [59] Edited by: DB Preacher on 16/11/2006 17:36:50 Originally by: nync Strategy was planned based on the system we though active atm of assault. I do believe that such changes MUST be made public before they take place. And the way customer support was dealing with my petition is absolutely awfull. Yeah, I never disagreed with you. If it's a silent nerf, it needs clarification as it has massive ramifications for alliance warfare. Originally by: Buxaroo Originally by: dbp If that has changed with a stealth move from CCP then fair enough, however we need some clarification from CCP on this. However, I think it's a good move albiet one that hinders us rather than helping us. It would mean that peeps with strong DT prescence can't simply batter every pos into reinforced 5 minutes before DT then take the station after DT. You would need to plan and siege the system for longer. dbp But don't you see dbp? This means its a bit more fair. Myself, I cannot be on during DT because I am at work. Same for most US/East coast workers. Aye, and that's what I said dude ;) dbp Caldari Alliance PVP Championship Winner Current RKK Ranking: (PSCAL6) Proficient Short Tanto
Peoke Caldari Rome SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.16 18:08:00 - [60] well from my personal understanding from all the pos weve blown up it goes like this. A pos in reinforced doesnt get its 5 day sovrenty timer reset, so it wont hold sovrenty in system once in reinforced but once out will reclaim it if you still havemore pos then the enemy. if this has changed in the last 2 days maybe but as of sunday this is how its been and been like this since before the great xzh system war with d2 and goon

Qayos Eve Defence Force Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.16 18:24:00 - [61] If reinforced PoSs claim sov, then it has changed in the last 2-3 days without any notice. I think the case is just that both the first GM and the senior GM are just wrong.
nync UA Industry Red Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.16 18:42:00 - [62] Originally by: Qayos If reinforced PoSs claim sov, then it has changed in the last 2-3 days without any notice. I think the case is just that both the first GM and the senior GM are just wrong. There are 2 rules in this game: 1. GM is always right. 2. If GM is not right see rule #1. RA senior pos manager
Raste Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.16 18:59:00 - [63] Originally by: nync Wahhhhhhhh Glad to see you're still wearing out the petition button. Wish I had some Cyrillic handy to send you into another meltdown.
nync UA Industry Red Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.16 19:04:00 - [64] Originally by: Raste Originally by: nync Wahhhhhhhh Glad to see you're still wearing out the petition button. Wish I had some Cyrillic handy to send you into another meltdown. and you are my favourite forum whorior RA senior pos manager
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.16 19:05:00 - [65] Edited by: Rod Blaine on 16/11/2006 19:08:09 Stop whining about them petitioning for an explanation LV, you know as wel as anyone involved in pos warfare that he was right in his assumption about the game mechanics involved. We've been taking ASCN stations based on the same mechanic (altho we do remove their pos afterwards, so the end result would be the same). If it changed, then it was done silently, and RA cannot be blamed for petitioning it untill things have been made clear by someone that actually confirms that is was changed, rather then someone that only confirms that this is how it is. Because for all we know they're simply wrong, it wouldn't exactly be the first time would it ? If you want to flame RA, keep it for when it's their due. That's not now. In the mean time this particular patch of uncertainty (ffs CCP how hard is it to write stuff like this down for your gm's, not to mention us ?), will only lead to extended petition queues whenever a new station is taken somewhere in Eve. Old blog
Buxaroo Black Dwarf Caldari Deep Space Industral	Posted - 2006.11.16 19:22:00 - [66] Originally by: Fi T'Zeh That's exactly what he said... Yeah, I reread the post by DBP and went to edit it and low and behold, they moved the topic and I could nto edit it.....then lunch was over rofl.
Ediz Daxx FinFleet Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.16 21:36:00 - [67] Maybe theres a rogue programmer running around at CCP.
The Mittani GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.11.16 21:44:00 - [68] From what I hear, there's been wackiness in the NPC markets today, and reports of asteroid belts not spawning normally. I wonder if we just had another bout of our usual POS-luck, such as the infamous KZF assault where every tower went into 'double reinforced' due to an inconvenient server crash. My appeal to CCP: If you have a bug that borks the code, bloody well up and admit it. If your GMs cover for a bug by claiming that the 'rules have changed' or that the 'rule has always been this way', you lose all credibility as a company. Likewise, it is poor business practice to change major game mechanics in a completely unannounced way, if this has in fact occured. The least :tinfoil: option is merely that the GMs in question are incomptent and know approximately zero about POS warfare in 0.0. Occam's razor.
Sathrai Unlimited Blade Works	Posted - 2006.11.17 00:43:00 - [69] Edited by: Sathrai on 17/11/2006 00:43:46 Uhh, well, this is an interesting change. During my time in Huzzah, we always had to deal with losing sov after the following downtime if all of the claiming POSes were in reinforced at the time - we had this work both for and against us. Hell, it even sorta made a crazy sort of sense. And now the GMs are saying that this is an exploit, a bug, or somesuch? I bet if you petition this question again and get another GM, you'll get a different answer. The EVE GM team is absolutely terrible at being consistent in their responses.
Sebo Darrens Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.17 02:26:00 - [70] Not being able to take a station without actually taking down the sov POS doesn't sound like a bug to me, more like a bug-fix. Any tactic that involves an assault that takes advantage of proximity to DT is inherently flawed and methods to circumvent such tactics are commendable.

chromer one FinFleet Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.17 06:42:00 - [71] Maybe nync was selected the most efficient way to spread the news.
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.11.17 10:17:00 - [72] Edited by: Plutoinum on 17/11/2006 10:19:53 Well, somehow this even makes sense. Example for the old ruleset: Alliance A has superior number a few hours before and after downtime Alliance B during the rest of the time => alliance A can shoot all poses into reinforced before DT and take the station after DT. Then alliance B has lost the station, can't access their equipment etc. => alliance B can't do that, because you can only do it around downtime => massive timezone advantage for alliance A If players want to play station ping-pong this way, it should be always possible and not depend on who has more people around DT. That's at least how I see it now. cdt/con-loss vs. regular log-out. A proposal ...
Zeoliter Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.17 17:20:00 - [73] Whatever the case, the coalition has firm control over 1v- and the Goons fled the scene after we broke their camp on the station. They only outnumbered us 3:1 which is of course nowhere near enough. But the second engagement did crash the whole system. Fleet battles with 400 ships - schweeeeeeet.
Triest GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.11.17 18:34:00 - [74] Edited by: Triest on 17/11/2006 18:34:17 Just so you all know, -V- did not have sovereignty this morning after downtime. So it appears that it was simply a bug, and the GMs (either out of ignorance or because they knew they couldn't fix the problem without a server reboot) incorrectly disputed what most of you already know: That towers in reinforced should not count toward sovereignty.
The Mittani GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.11.17 19:18:00 - [75] Indeed, after a 'normal' reboot, sovereignty in 1v- is neutral with towers in reinforced. This leads us to the disturbing situation of a GM and a Senior GM telling us an explicitly incorrect ruling to cover for a bug/database error, when they simply should have announced the obvious truth of a code screwup.
zykerx Pegasus Mining and Securities R0ADKILL	Posted - 2006.11.17 22:34:00 - [76] had some chat with a gm and he also sayed reinforced towers should claim sov so posses have always been bugged allrdy and nobody knew it yet 0.o
zykerx Pegasus Mining and Securities R0ADKILL	Posted - 2006.11.18 13:18:00 - [77] Edited by: zykerx on 18/11/2006 13:21:08 ok i did had some mails with GM FAOLCHU who did say the towers still claim sov when into reinforced as this doesnt hapen ingame i petitioned it and got reply from GM Q he told me it does not claim sov when into reinforced told him about GM FAOLCHU and he talked with some other people and the answer still was they do not claim sov gm will talk with eachother to clarify this between each other and i hoop they also make a post in this thread wich i did send a link to them and asked them todo if posseble to clear this thinghy

Sharkbait	Posted - 2006.11.18 14:15:00 - [78] i do not have alot of information on this atm, but it will be fixed in kali. i will try and keep you updated with information. Spank You later

Domalais Equilibrium LLC United Confederation of Corporations	Posted - 2006.11.19 02:37:00 - [79] Thanks for showing interest, Shark. If I may ask, what is the intended behavior? It would be nice to know what "fixed" means.
Halkin Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.11.19 11:31:00 - [80] Originally by: nync Originally by: Eleese Originally by: nync Just got reply from senior GM stating that tower keeps claiming sovereignty while it is online, even in reinforced mode. thks for your replies. cya in space Thats nice but it doesnt. lol I can't post full GM's FATE reply , since it's forbidden, but he clearly states that it does. I've seen the opposite happen in the past few weeks more than once. Originally by: Hygelac "There's three sides to every story, your side, our side and the Truth!"

Pastora Russian SOBR Red Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.21 14:16:00 - [81] So, are we due to get an answer from devs or anybody who controls GMs, why GM Fate and GM Q have blatantly lied on the given issue? _______________________________________________ If ifs and ands were pots and pans, I would grow mushrooms in my pants.


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