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Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.16 20:19:00 - [1] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 16/11/2006 20:21:24 Ok, graph time Harbinger ftw. They better nerf that ship too now that they have made Hurricane and Drake average to poor. If CCP wants the new battlecruisers to suck, they are ALL going to suck. And im not doing anymore graphs if you think I suck, the graph suck or ccp suck... --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Safron Mista Amarr Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.16 20:37:00 - [2] Why is the Drake using T1 Missiles while all the other ships are using T2 ammo? __________________________________________
Kharakan Amarr GREY COUNCIL Breidablik	Posted - 2006.11.16 20:46:00 - [3] "waa waa my stuff sucks now so yours has to suck too"? No thanks, unnerf the drake's rof bonus fer sure but don't ruin amarr even more ¼_¼ Originally by: Joshua Foiritain (to Dark Shikari) HAHAHA I KNOW YOUR ACCOUUNT NAME TIME TO DIE this signature space is claimed in the name of eris, haha I got to him first. neeneer
Risien Drogonne	Posted - 2006.11.16 20:46:00 - [4] Originally by: Safron Mista Why is the Drake using T1 Missiles while all the other ships are using T2 ammo? Because Caldari pilots like to skew statistics?
Deschenus Maximus Amarr In Articulo Mortis	Posted - 2006.11.16 20:47:00 - [5] For the love of god, DON'T TOUCH THE HARBINGER (anymore)! We already lost some DPS when we got the bonuses switched, and the Harbi CAN'T TANK while the others can. If anything, bring back the RoF bonus (damage bonus belongs to GALLENTE, not AMARR) and un-nerf the Hurricane and Drake (well, change the resist bonus on the Drake to something ganky not tanky). FOR THE EMPEROR! The Fourth NtV (Noob to Vet) Lottery
Tsar Maul	Posted - 2006.11.16 20:49:00 - [6] Can you do one with Rage HAMs, as if we are comparing BC vs BC then Rage HAMs will do full damage.
Captain Raynor Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.16 20:50:00 - [7] Originally by: Risien Drogonne Originally by: Safron Mista Why is the Drake using T1 Missiles while all the other ships are using T2 ammo? Because Caldari pilots like to skew statistics? I'm pretty sure Jim is a Minmatar guy last time I checked. Quote: Daniel Jackson > a harbinger cant be a raven cause its not caldari Daniel Jackson > and its not a missle ship Jim Raynor > thank you for that expert analysis DJ
Andrea Jaruwalski Caldari Angel Deep Corporation	Posted - 2006.11.16 20:51:00 - [8] Nice job making this graphic look like crap by not giving all the ships the same options in terms of ammo. Harbinger is still a sweet ship but it seems people can't get the head out of their backholes and realise the tier 2 BC or Tier 3 BS aren't supposed to be better in all aspect to the other already existing ships in the game. They'll have roles, and if you can't figure out a way to use those ships, well.. Don't moan about it. There's still going to be balancing happening before Kali gets out and ships and "dreams" will be shattered, oh noes. WTS PILGRIM + CURSE + T2 DRONES PACKS
Shadowsword Gallente COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2006.11.16 20:51:00 - [9] Well, because the Harbinger use a lot more cap than the others, doesn't have any tanking bonus (like the hurricane), and is the most vulnerable to EW/Nos, it should be overall the most damaging battlecruiser of the lot. But overall the state of the upcoming ships is pretty sad. I'll have three years of presence here soon, and I've never been less thrilled by upcoming ships than I am right now. 2 battleships that are already outclassed by their Tier2 counterparts, another that bring nothing new, and one that is actually decent. And now, 3 battlecuisers that, while not really useless, aren't that good either, and the last that will probably follow them to the same level of so-so. The more I look into it, the more I think that Tuxford believes a ship that can only tank is an usefull ship. That's true, to some extent: they can tank in a mining op, and tank in a complex while it's buddies do the killing part, and.... that's about it. Good, efficient ships are those that can do half-gank and half-tank at the same time. "gank focused", indeed. ------------------------------------------ Every ship has a base 60-70% resist against the primary damage type of the race that is the least able to vary it's damage types.
Risien Drogonne	Posted - 2006.11.16 20:52:00 - [10] Originally by: Captain Raynor Originally by: Risien Drogonne Originally by: Safron Mista Why is the Drake using T1 Missiles while all the other ships are using T2 ammo? Because Caldari pilots like to skew statistics? I'm pretty sure Jim is a Minmatar guy last time I checked. Funny, it says "Caldari" right under his pic and he's always bragging about how many points he has in missiles. Simple fact... he's wrong to use t1 ammo on the drake for that graph. It's nothing but propaganda.
Risien Drogonne	Posted - 2006.11.16 20:54:00 - [11] Here's another observation... Is it my imagination or did you just leave the 2 non-turret highslots empty on the hurricane? And the drake too? How bout putting some weapons in there, hmm?
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.16 20:57:00 - [12] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 16/11/2006 21:01:10 Originally by: Risien Drogonne Funny, it says "Caldari" right under his pic and he's always bragging about how many points he has in missiles. Simple fact... he's wrong to use t1 ammo on the drake for that graph. It's nothing but propaganda. No, thats Jim Raynor. I fly minmatar. And as for putting stuff in the remaining slots, I simply dont know what fits with a tank. If I put stuff there, people will say its a unrealistic setup and I suck. If I dont, then I suck too. T1 missiles was because the t2 ones didnt really give a big improvement compared to the penalties they have, but if you have a realistic setup for a Drake, share it and ill use it in future graphs. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Old Geeza The Retirement Home	Posted - 2006.11.16 20:57:00 - [13] Originally by: Risien Drogonne Funny, it says "Caldari" right under his pic and he's always bragging about how many points he has in missiles. Simple fact... he's wrong to use t1 ammo on the drake for that graph. It's nothing but propaganda. That's actually Jim Raynor. Have a look at the guy you quoted ;) _______________________________________ Sign the petition against jump queues!
K8 T	Posted - 2006.11.16 21:01:00 - [14] Jim didn't I see you in a Cerb someplace in Caldari space? I thought you were another Testy McTest aka Calmdown at first.
Risien Drogonne	Posted - 2006.11.16 21:02:00 - [15] Edited by: Risien Drogonne on 16/11/2006 21:03:23 Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 16/11/2006 21:01:10 Originally by: Risien Drogonne Funny, it says "Caldari" right under his pic and he's always bragging about how many points he has in missiles. Simple fact... he's wrong to use t1 ammo on the drake for that graph. It's nothing but propaganda. No, thats Jim Raynor. I fly minmatar. If you don't know how to fit a ship, are you really qualified to be making balance statements about it? And as for putting stuff in the remaining slots, I simply dont know what fits with a tank. If I put stuff there, people will say its a unrealistic setup and I suck. If I dont, then I suck too. T1 missiles was because the t2 ones didnt really give a big improvement compared to the penalties they have, but if you have a realistic setup for a Drake, share it and ill use it in future graphs. I'm sorry but doing a DPS graph without filling all the slots with weapons is an absolutely useless graph. It's exactly like saying "hey, my ship is low DPS if I don't turn on all my weapons!"
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.16 21:02:00 - [16] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 16/11/2006 21:02:22 Originally by: K8 T Jim didn't I see you in a Cerb someplace in Caldari space? I thought you were another Testy McTest aka Calmdown at first. Nope, but I hang with them on Scrapheap Challenge... we are all depressed matari. And I cant fly Cerb, so it was probably Jim Raynor again. :) --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Audri Fisher Caldari The Keep THE R0CK	Posted - 2006.11.16 21:03:00 - [17] Originally by: Risien Drogonne Here's another observation... Is it my imagination or did you just leave the 2 non-turret highslots empty on the hurricane? And the drake too? How bout putting some weapons in there, hmm? That's like saying you should put 2 heavy launchers and 4 250 mm tech II rails on a moa when caculating dps... It's not a fair comparison since ships only get the PG to fit a full rack of it's largest guns, not enough to fill up all there highslots with there largest weapons. Now that the drake isn't worth poo, there will be less justification to do something with the ferox..
Tsar Maul	Posted - 2006.11.16 21:03:00 - [18] Still waiting on that graph Jimmy-Boy
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.16 21:05:00 - [19] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 16/11/2006 21:05:16 Originally by: Risien Drogonne I'm sorry but doing a DPS graph without filling all the slots with weapons is an absolutely useless graph. It's exactly like saying "hey, my ship is low DPS if I don't turn on all my weapons!" Thats interesting. I always felt the other way around, that setups that doesnt fit with a tank are pretty meaningless to show. Im more interested in setups that work good for general pvp. I dont do blobbing much, so I need a tank. Otherwise I could put a full rack of the largest guns on there, and 4 damage mods. But it doesnt show what I want to show. Im after practical setups. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Risien Drogonne	Posted - 2006.11.16 21:05:00 - [20] Originally by: Audri Fisher Originally by: Risien Drogonne Here's another observation... Is it my imagination or did you just leave the 2 non-turret highslots empty on the hurricane? And the drake too? How bout putting some weapons in there, hmm? That's like saying you should put 2 heavy launchers and 4 250 mm tech II rails on a moa when caculating dps... It's not a fair comparison since ships only get the PG to fit a full rack of it's largest guns, not enough to fill up all there highslots with there largest weapons. Now that the drake isn't worth poo, there will be less justification to do something with the ferox.. I didn't say he should put in the biggest weapons in the class. I said he should fill his weapons slots with a realistic setup. Hurricanes don't run around with 2 empty high slots, and if they choose to fit NOS they've CHOSEN lower DPS.
Darknar	Posted - 2006.11.16 21:08:00 - [21] hmm looks fine to me. as long as caldari stay at about 15km they should win as always.. might be a good idea putting all 8 BC up there
Graalum Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2006.11.16 21:10:00 - [22] can someone link me to the new stats for these ships, don't have eve installed to get on sisi
Clavius XIV Auctoritan Syndicate Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.16 21:10:00 - [23] Heavy pulse vs 220s? No missiles in the free slots? You may want make fittings a bit more comperable, exageration does noone any favors. Not to mention that if you include realistic transversals or realistic resists you get a lot different picture.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.16 21:12:00 - [24] Originally by: Clavius XIV Heavy pulse vs 220s? No missiles in the free slots? You may want make fittings a bit more comperable, exageration does noone any favors. Not to mention that if you include realistic transversals or realistic resists you get a lot different picture. You know, even if I did all those things, people would say im just playing the game on paper and I suck. :) Anyway, I just felt the Harbinger looked clearly unbalanced. But maybe thats just me, thinking its wrong to have the same dps as the close range ships out to 20 km.... Oh well. Who cares, really. Game will be what the game will be. :) --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Old Geeza The Retirement Home	Posted - 2006.11.16 21:12:00 - [25] Originally by: Graalum can someone link me to the new stats for these ships, don't have eve installed to get on sisi I don't have the links, but: Harbinger: 7 turrets, 50% cap and 25% damage bonus, 8/4/6 layout Drake: 6 launchers, 5% shield res and 25% kinetic damage, 8/6/4 layout Hurricane: 6 turrets, 5% rof and 5% damage, 8/4/6 layout Mymidian: No idea The hurricane has launcher points to fill up it's final highs with, not sure about the Drake + Har. _______________________________________ Sign the petition against jump queues!
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.16 21:18:00 - [26] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 16/11/2006 21:18:31 Originally by: Old Geeza Originally by: Graalum can someone link me to the new stats for these ships, don't have eve installed to get on sisi I don't have the links, but: Harbinger: 7 turrets, 50% cap and 25% damage bonus, 8/4/6 layout Drake: 6 launchers, 5% shield res and 25% kinetic damage, 8/6/4 layout Hurricane: 6 turrets, 5% rof and 5% damage, 8/4/6 layout Mymidian: No idea The hurricane has launcher points to fill up it's final highs with, not sure about the Drake + Har. Myrmidon has +7.5% repair amount bonus and 10% drone hitpoint & damage bonus. Myrmidon have only 6 highs. Not sure about Drakes highs. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Ewa Quillam Caldari mega mining corporation Astral Wolves	Posted - 2006.11.16 21:31:00 - [27] I'm very misspleased that u didn't put plain T2 Heavy Missile launchers on the drake with either Fury or Precision Scourge heavies... The graph would be very, very different...
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.16 21:32:00 - [28] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 16/11/2006 21:37:05 Originally by: Ewa Quillam I'm very misspleased that u didn't put plain T2 Heavy Missile launchers on the drake with either Fury or Precision Scourge heavies... The graph would be very, very different... Yeah well, there will be more graphs. And why not make one yourself? By the way, Drake with 2 damage mods and t2 heavy launchers with scourge fury: 343 dps out to 40 km. With prec, 264 dps. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Ewa Quillam Caldari mega mining corporation Astral Wolves	Posted - 2006.11.16 21:40:00 - [29] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Ewa Quillam I'm very misspleased that u didn't put plain T2 Heavy Missile launchers on the drake with either Fury or Precision Scourge heavies... The graph would be very, very different... Yeah well, there will be more graphs. And why not make one yourself? It seems u're the graphMan around here and it's always easier to criticize than to actually do the job... You've left me with the impression that u're a person who wants complete analysis, well this one ain't...
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.16 21:41:00 - [30] Originally by: Ewa Quillam You've left me with the impression that u're a person who wants complete analysis, well this one ain't... I just click buttons in Excel. The real honor should go to Naughty Boy for creating the excel sheet. His math is uber. Anyway.. bedtime.. :) --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate

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