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The 800k SP Cost (and no it's not 2 weeks)

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Viictoria	Posted - 2006.11.26 03:51:00 - [181] Originally by: Aphotic Raven Solution: insta train all skills to a max of 800k (or whatever..) the kali changes incur.. thereby stopping whinging while still giving noobies a chance... (although level 1 missions with 800k sp? ehat?) I have an alt with 240k skill points... and high sec piracy for the win, has 20 something kill mails and started a fun little war.... As much fun as it was i think she might get the grinderin favor of an 800k killbot (its a lot if you just like screwing with carebears... most wont try to take on a frigate even with t2 drones....) But nevertheless, i look forward to getting a new alt that is significantly better out of the box, i cant afford 2 accounts but i still like to play more than 1 character. I think it would be fair and just if we all got a boost to SP as a gift from ccp... but i dont think this will happen... and not ALL noobies will have this max sp, true noobys will start with crap skills and bad stats (FOR CHRISTS SAKE. PUT A WARNING ON THE CHAR CREATION SCREEN SAYING THAT CHARISMA IS ****HOUSE. IT SCREWS CHARACTERS FOREVER.) and it would be unfair to give everyone else the max atainable when most starters will not have this max.... Hey first of all Charisma is very important for Command Ship pilots, or those that wish to use different types of gang modules, anyway. Trade / Social skills are certainly useful for carebear types also. But anyway, if they are going to compensate people with an SP boost they will need to do it for all active characters to be fair, and people can just create specialized alts now and abuse the boost to make "super alts" even more skilled than post-Revelations newbies. Gunnery V, racial turret-type skill IV for example. In other words it is more fair to give everyone NOTHING because it keeps existing players from abusing the new system when they can already utilize it fully themselves by creating a new character with it (even if it's just an alt). Let's not forget that 300k+ characters are already possible, also. People toss around this 800k like that's how much MORE new characters are getting, but it's not.
Vellaron	Posted - 2006.11.26 04:09:00 - [182] Edited by: Vellaron on 26/11/2006 04:09:13 I dont know what selections you guys are making in the existing character creation to start with the 300k+ skillpoints because ive made a handful of characters now with different skill paths and many were below 50k skillpoints. So, I would say its more commonly 10 to 15 times the skillpoints.
Protunia Gallente	Posted - 2006.11.26 04:12:00 - [183] Edited by: Protunia on 26/11/2006 04:12:53 I think Memory is the same or less important than Charisma. Say what you will but there are some very nice skills that need Charisma. be glad you have when they release some new skills that every one will want later. As far as this whole character thing goes. You Pay to PLAY thats it. My Character Stats
Viictoria	Posted - 2006.11.26 04:15:00 - [184] Originally by: Vellaron Edited by: Vellaron on 26/11/2006 04:09:13 I dont know what selections you guys are making in the existing character creation to start with the 300k+ skillpoints because ive made a handful of characters now with different skill paths and many were below 50k skillpoints. So, I would say its more commonly 10 to 15 times the skillpoints. How many SP you started with is technically your own choice and doesn't change the potential maximum. I can empathize with you as I only started with 90k but I'm fine with it as I'd need to train skills I really don't even want to start with 300k or more. New character creation will likely be better, of course, but not entirely different in that regard.
Vellaron	Posted - 2006.11.26 04:30:00 - [185] Originally by: Viictoria How many SP you started with is technically your own choice and doesn't change the potential maximum. I can empathize with you as I only started with 90k but I'm fine with it as I'd need to train skills I really don't even want to start with 300k or more. New character creation will likely be better, of course, but not entirely different in that regard. People are making arguments based on the 'potential maximum', saying that its not a significant impact because the 'best case scenario' is about half the new amount of skillpoints. I dare you to randomly go thru the existing char creation ten times and see what the average skillpoints is, its not going to be anywhere remotely near 300 i assure you.
Vellaron	Posted - 2006.11.26 05:26:00 - [186] Edited by: Vellaron on 26/11/2006 05:28:40 Originally by: Protunia You would have to pick a maxed specialized character to get 800k SP from the start with Kali. Just like you can get 300k now if you pick a specialized character. Wrong, the scope of skillpoints is 800-810 it says so in the patch notes and from the kali chars ive made holds true. Plus the skills are much more cleverly thrown together than currently, you get things that are really useful and at high levels. Which is a good thing for new players obviously, overall i think the new creation is better but that doesnt change the fact that its pi$$ed off a lot of people.
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2006.11.26 06:37:00 - [187] I can already see, in the future, CCP will do some sort of char creation buff again, and new players at that time will scream about how much BS it is for chars to start with 1.2mil SP, or whatever, and new players from this time will look at it and think "**, it's only a couple hundred K Skillpoints, it'd be nice to have but it's not the end of the world." People who've played for this last month are going to have an edge over people who start after Kali, EOD. Originally by:** kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Eka Maladay	Posted - 2006.11.26 14:12:00 - [188] Originally by: Vellaron Edited by: Vellaron on 26/11/2006 05:28:50 Originally by: Viictoria How many SP you started with is technically your own choice and doesn't change the potential maximum. I can empathize with you as I only started with 90k but I'm fine with it as I'd need to train skills I really don't even want to start with 300k or more. New character creation will likely be better, of course, but not entirely different in that regard. People are making arguments based on the 'potential maximum', saying that its not a significant impact because the 'best case scenario' is about half the new amount of skillpoints. I dare you to randomly go thru the existing char creation ten times and see what the average skillpoints is, its not going to be anywhere remotely near 300 i assure you. Its also not accurate to say 800k SP is a months worth of gaming because that would again be a best case scenario, i would say most new players dont always have a skill training 24/7 and you'll find players 2-3 months old who would benefit from deleting their characters. Skillpoints is progression, skillpoints give you access to the cooler aspects of the game. Skillpoints enable fun and experience, not the other way around. Therefore new players to only care about skillpoints. And people who've been logging in and training up for the last few weeks and months have basically wasted their time. They would have been better off having not played at all until wednesday. You dare me? Well I just did, let me tell you what my character I created right off the bat in 10 minutes. I did read thru it, but the chance of getting what I get is 1 out of 4. If you know the game a bit, you will get similar list -every single time-. Drone Navigation V Drone V Combat drone operation III Gunnery III Electric III Iron Will IV Learning II There are a bunch more skill this character have, but compare to those they are insignificant. The character have a starting skill point of 801,000k While arguablely, those skill might not be what everyone want, but regardless of that, even if you cut the starting skill by half, it is still a huge advantage over people who been playing for just a month or two. If you think we are just ranting about skill point, you are sadly mistaken. The amount of different skills those new player have are sickeningly rich! Try it on the test server if you don't believe me!
Protunia Gallente	Posted - 2006.11.26 14:24:00 - [189] SO??? I think its great And I cannot wait to make two new Alts that I can actually use. My Character Stats
Bleyys Corey	Posted - 2006.11.26 16:04:00 - [190] I think this is a great idea to help out new characters, but at the same time, give the boost to existing players as well. This way people wouldn't have to restart, and, frankly, i don't care how many SP you've got, who wouldn't want an extra 800k?

Grayson Kor	Posted - 2006.11.26 20:51:00 - [191] Edited by: Grayson Kor on 26/11/2006 20:53:44 I really dislike the tendency to not argue about the topic and bring arguments, but instead being totally intolerant/ignorant and - state that you have no problem with it so others also shouldn't - simply calling them whiners (expressing one's dislikes has nothing to do with whining or tears. Calling it that is just childish smack) - basically ... flaming Come on people. If you don't have a problem with something, that's fine. But don't expect others to be and think exactly like you. Having a different opinion is ok. Criticising or flaming others for their opinion is not. That being said CCP should simply give 1 free month to all players who startet before Revelations and be done with it. SP reimbursement would be too complicated.
Joglot	Posted - 2006.11.26 22:40:00 - [192] new players= Should be able to post things about the new skills change Old players= should be able to have there say and agree or not BUT AND A BIG BUT with out saying quit the game grow up old players
Tetovo Caldari Black Lance Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.11.27 05:24:00 - [193] # We compensate characters that have already been created (using the old system) and have less than 800.000 SP. Characters with more than that will not be affected. This will happen when the servers go down for the Revelations patch. Congrats VeniVici, perhaps the devs noticed your topic or actually had this planned formt he beginning and didn't bother telling us.
Eka Maladay	Posted - 2006.11.27 09:25:00 - [194] Look like the dev blog here http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=403 fixed the problem for us. Now it is mostly fair. Well, those people how started before the new player do, will not have any head start in term of skill point. But this is still by far much better then the previous setting of doing absolutely nothing for those with less then 800k skill point. Thanks CCP!
Protunia Gallente	Posted - 2006.11.27 09:53:00 - [195] SO in other words if i made a gunnery specialist today then after the patch he would get the same skills and SP as the new version? My Character Stats
Shin Mai	Posted - 2006.11.27 17:25:00 - [196] so then i post it here :) Now all new players get up too 800k sp and also the new players who started befor. But there are alot of players who just played a few months, and alot of this players do not have the basic skills, who would get with kali. So my suggestion, give every player the basic skills for his bloodline, then i think all players are happy Wink, btw sry for my bad english.
Sir Howard Gallente Infinity Aeronautics EntroPraetorian Aegis	Posted - 2006.11.27 18:01:00 - [197] Welp I am one of those people who are only a month into the game and I have 750k sp's. I'm not gonna argue that wether or not this 800k sp thing is gonna help or hurt the game. I just kinda upset that someone can start a toon tomorow and have more than myself. And no its not just a matter of me saying screw it and starting a new character. Because then I lose all work I put into my standings and whatnot. I know theres alota people that have been playing for 2, 3 years that think all of us noobs are complaining too much "800k isnt that much deal with it". Well 800k is alot to me being a casual gamer, thats a over a month of my time and some of my money that I put into earning my 750k sp's. I dont know if CCP is planning on compensating any of the current players but it would be nice. My two cents.... "This is a bad idea wrapped in a horrible plan and shipped in a retarded box"
Shin Mai	Posted - 2006.11.27 18:06:00 - [198] yes thats exctly the prob., would be nice if everyone get the basic skills (the char could be also a few months old), if he/she had not learnid it untill now. Maybe some Dev's notice it. Because 2 level 5 skills are nearly 2 weeks to learn. And it would be unfair that a player with more then 800k sp is still missing some basic skills...
Vellaron	Posted - 2006.11.27 18:11:00 - [199] Edited by: Vellaron on 27/11/2006 18:12:40 Originally by: Eka Maladay You dare me? Well I just did, let me tell you what my character I created right off the bat in 10 minutes. I did read thru it, but the chance of getting what I get is 1 out of 4. If you know the game a bit, you will get similar list -every single time-. Drone Navigation V Drone V Combat drone operation III Gunnery III Electric III Iron Will IV Learning II There are a bunch more skill this character have, but compare to those they are insignificant. The character have a starting skill point of 801,000kWhile arguablely, those skill might not be what everyone want, but regardless of that, even if you cut the starting skill by half, it is still a huge advantage over people who been playing for just a month or two. If you think we are just ranting about skill point, you are sadly mistaken. The amount of different skills those new player have are sickeningly rich! Try it on the test server if you don't believe me! You missed the point entirely, congratulations. "Until now, people have been able to create over 1.400 possible character combinations. Thereof, 126 characters yielded under 6000 SP, but a player who got lucky (or knew the game enough to know what to pick) could get over 303.000 with one of the combinations. Furthermore, hundreds of combinations resulted in less than 20.000 SP, while only about 20 resulted above 275.000 SP."
Tdaan Sczow	Posted - 2006.11.27 18:43:00 - [200] Originally by: Sir Howard I know theres alota people that have been playing for 2, 3 years that think all of us noobs are complaining too much "800k isnt that much deal with it". Well 800k is alot to me being a casual gamer, thats a over a month of my time and some of my money that I put into earning my 750k sp's. Whether or not you're a casual gamer makes no difference, you learn skills at the same rate as a hardcore gamer.

Vellaron	Posted - 2006.11.27 19:00:00 - [201] Edited by: Vellaron on 27/11/2006 19:05:08 Dev Response: http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=403 ------------------------------------------------- 2.2- Operation: Revelations compensation The Mission: To compensate people that have less skill 800.000 skill points when we upgrade to the new character creation. Every character that has less than 800.000 SP will receive skills until he has more than 800.000 SP. Characters created a week before we patch will thus have the same amount of SP as new characters, or more. They will naturally also have the advantage over completely new characters of more ISK and of course experience. The upside of giving every character this treatment (including inactive characters sharing accounts with a ômainö character) is that everybody feels the love. Players that have been playing for a while will always have an advantage on freshly created characters, be it in ISK or simply in gaming experience. 2.2.1- How we will do this We have made a list of the primary skills of each school existing characters graduated from when they were created (Hedion University, Royal Imperial Institute, etc.). When we patch, we will go through them in order with each character and add skill levels to the skills listed in the order specified until the characters end up inside the 800-810.000 skill point range. There is some possibility that some old characters might go above that - It'll be like winning a lottery and we'll let it slide. 2.2.1.1- Cycling through the skills If a bump would take a player past 810.000SP, say from 790k to 830k, then that skill level is not added, but we look at the next skill in line for that school/race. This will be repeated as often as necessary or until the skills allowed have been depleted. In the improbable thing happens and the player has depleted the skills allowed (per school, per Race) and they have been cycled through, the pilot will still be bumped up a level so he is not left below 800k. Again, there is a slight chance that some character will get a bit more than their share, but we'll live with that. 2.2.1.2- How we determined the skills The system we will implement is based entirely on the skill hierarchy of the new careers and specializations (that are again tied to the schools), built on top of what the character already had. Difference in emphasis between skills and similar schools is reflected in the current character creation. Upon creation, all existing characters graduated from a school that the user selected. That school, and through it the cultural background of the character dictates what skills are given. The exact list will not be revealed before we patch because it has a slight risk of being abused (even though time is limited).
Sir Howard Gallente Infinity Aeronautics EntroPraetorian Aegis	Posted - 2006.11.27 19:01:00 - [202] Originally by: Tdaan Sczow Originally by: Sir Howard I know theres alota people that have been playing for 2, 3 years that think all of us noobs are complaining too much "800k isnt that much deal with it". Well 800k is alot to me being a casual gamer, thats a over a month of my time and some of my money that I put into earning my 750k sp's. Whether or not you're a casual gamer makes no difference, you learn skills at the same rate as a hardcore gamer. Wrong, a "casual" player may not have the time to have a skill training constantly. Some people like myself work long long hours and sometimes are away from a PC for several days. "This is a bad idea wrapped in a horrible plan and shipped in a retarded box"
Vellaron	Posted - 2006.11.27 19:04:00 - [203] Originally by: Sir Howard Originally by: Tdaan Sczow Originally by: Sir Howard I know theres alota people that have been playing for 2, 3 years that think all of us noobs are complaining too much "800k isnt that much deal with it". Well 800k is alot to me being a casual gamer, thats a over a month of my time and some of my money that I put into earning my 750k sp's. Whether or not you're a casual gamer makes no difference, you learn skills at the same rate as a hardcore gamer. Wrong, a "casual" player may not have the time to have a skill training constantly. Some people like myself work long long hours and sometimes are away from a PC for several days. Exactly, especially for new characters (on RMR chars) where pretty much all of your skills are short training times of 30m-4hr. After the first week you probably have some things you would like to train that take a couple days then it becomes easier to be casual.
Raging Strike Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.27 19:32:00 - [204] Edited by: Raging Strike on 27/11/2006 19:40:03 Edited by: Raging Strike on 27/11/2006 19:33:23 EDIT: mistake
Dread Phantom Caldari Project-Chaos	Posted - 2006.11.27 20:03:00 - [205] Originally by: Murukan just quit tbh. And then go cut yourself QFT
Xeron Silverblade	Posted - 2006.11.27 20:55:00 - [206] why do the older chars get nothing at all? at least 100 or 200k boost for the skill running during patch downtime would be nice. i'm playing for 3 month now and getting a skill to 5 at the beginning without imps or learnings was pretty hard... now u get them for free...
Nicocat Caldari New Age Solutions	Posted - 2006.11.27 21:05:00 - [207] Hmm. I'm just noticing this can be a bad thing for Gallente if they give you Drone Nav 5, a known bug in EVE, and don't tell you that that makes your drones miss more often than they hit, due to their orbit speed being super-speedy. Or did they fix that? Anyway, my stance as a 7-month-old is to let them have their skillpoints. While I like the unforgiving stance EVE takes, it's not fun until you get used to it (and can inflict suffering on OTHERS, as well as take the punishment). I think this is a fine change for everyone that's not Goonswarm. ---------------------------- Buying Sabres. EVEmail or convo me in game!
Rey Xavier Gallente Bluestar Enterprises	Posted - 2006.11.29 10:48:00 - [208] Ok, I just want to thank the developers for their effort. They did not choose the "easy way" aka "New pre-Revelations players who just have two week old chars can always make a new char if your skillpoints are lower then the ones of a fresh created Revelations char" - but invested a bit more work, adding the boosts even for existing players. My char ist 12 days old and went from below 400k to over 800k, boosting his usefulness quite a bit. Even when posting that I'd really like to see such a solution I did not expect to in fact see a boost to existing players because of the expected additional effort (time is money and there was a easy, cheap solution at hand as mentioned above). Having worked almost five years for a major publisher I can truely say that this is not usual, but exceptionary in the gaming business, where short term profit seems to be all that matters. =============================== BLUESTAR ENTERPRISES http://Bluestar-Enterprises.de.vu Ihr pers÷nliches Kreditinstitut Kredite & mehr


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