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Kojiami
Dark Empire Fleet Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.18 15:22:00 -
[1]
Burn away, i'm looking for an mining aeon setup? What about a minemoros? Looking for mining setups for both of these ships, thanks.
It's awesome being amarr, ISN'T IT? |
Mister Alt
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Posted - 2006.11.18 17:01:00 -
[2]
I wouldnt even go near both of them with mining lasers. Dreads are only good for popping other capitals/POS/Station, im sure a osprey will be able to out mine it. The aeon well ill let someone else answer for that.
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Kojiami
Dark Empire Fleet Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.18 17:08:00 -
[3]
Morros at lv 5 gets +250% to mining drone yield. Aeon can unleash a myriad of said drones.
It's awesome being amarr, ISN'T IT? |
Tunajuice
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Posted - 2006.11.18 17:23:00 -
[4]
no
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Mister Alt
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Posted - 2006.11.18 17:29:00 -
[5]
Special Abilities 5% bonus to Capital Hybrid Turret damage per level 50% bonus to drone damage and hitpoints per level 99% reduction in CPU need for Siege Module
50% bonus to drone Damage not Yeild
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Kojiami
Dark Empire Fleet Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.18 17:32:00 -
[6]
It increases overall efficiency to drones, 50% per level. The yield is not added, but has been proven it affects yield too.
It's awesome being amarr, ISN'T IT? |
Mister Alt
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Posted - 2006.11.18 17:43:00 -
[7]
Even if it did, why would you want to mine in a Dread? it would be like Cutting your grass in a tank.
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Kojiami
Dark Empire Fleet Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.18 18:32:00 -
[8]
Because one shot of the tank gets rid of the grass, while it takes a lawnmower half an hour.
It's awesome being amarr, ISN'T IT? |
Lightof God
Caldari Arcana Imperii Ltd. Sani Khal'Vecna
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Posted - 2006.11.19 04:34:00 -
[9]
Although the problem lies with the fact that there tends to be holes in you lawn when you do that.
But the real anwser to the question why can be anwsered with another question.
Why is there a 50 calliber pistol when a 38 calliber will suffice?
because overkill is FUN
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Mjnari
Empyreum
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Posted - 2006.11.19 05:36:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Kojiami Because one shot of the tank gets rid of the grass, while it takes a lawnmower half an hour.
The man makes an excellent point.
------------------------ Minmatar, It should be like going down a flight of stairs on an office chair shooting an Uzi. |
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Kojiami
Dark Empire Fleet Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.20 06:56:00 -
[11]
What about the aeon?
It's awesome being amarr, ISN'T IT? |
MrRx7
Amarr Quantum Industries Prime Orbital Systems
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Posted - 2006.11.20 12:03:00 -
[12]
let me get this right...you want to take a 25million isk mothership out mining......what kind of carebear are you?
hell even the carebears in my allaince wouldent go *that* far.
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Vincent Almasy
Gallente The Underground
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Posted - 2006.11.20 14:41:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Lightof God Although the problem lies with the fact that there tends to be holes in you lawn when you do that.
But the real anwser to the question why can be anwsered with another question.
Why is there a 50 calliber pistol when a 38 calliber will suffice?
because overkill is FUN
I think we have a winner.. Anyways if your not using it right then, why not? a few command warfare for mining and use drones to mine, if something comes up, recall all, dispatch the fighters! Kill everything, recall and continue to mine.
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Ather Ialeas
Amarr Karjala Inc. Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.20 15:10:00 -
[14]
I've posted one mothership mining setup earlier and I was flamed a lot because of that, so I guess I could now post similar fits for Amarr capitals. These are of course The Ultimate Setups so price is not an issue when fitting one of these. Also what should be noted is that I pulled these numbers with max skills. Oh and better yet, these all are solomining setups.
Archon: HI: 6* Modulated Deep Core Miner II (with corresponding T2 crystals MED: 1* Survey Scanner I 3* Cap Recharger II LOW: 1* Capital Armor Repairer I 3* Mining Laser Upgrade I 3* hardeners of your choice, either rat-specific or 2* Shaqil's EANM + Damage Control II Drones: As many Harvester drones you can get.
Vital stats: Everything runs nonstop, produces (238,76 * 6)/3 = 477,52m3 ore per minute. Should be able to tank just about any NPC out there.
Aeon: HI: 6* Modulated Deep Core Miner II (with corresponding T2 crystals MED: 1* Survey Scanner I 3* Cap Recharger II LOW: 1* Capital Armor Repairer I 4* Mining Laser Upgrade I 2* Shaqil's EANM + Damage Control II 1* Co-processor II Drones: As many Harvester drones you can get.
Vital stats: Once again everything runs nonstop, produces (250,698*6)/3=501,396m3 ore per minute. Should be able to tank just about any NPC out there.
Revelation: Same as Aeon but with only 4 DCMLII:s. Ask Chribba tbh, he knows everything about mining with Revelation.
Avatar: Unfortunately this ship will suck in mining. The basic scheme should be obvious though by now and it's very simple for capitals: Three slots goes for tanking, if armortanking, rest is for mining upgrades and meds for cap rechargers, if shieldtanking, lows are for mining upgrades and the row of mids...well tbh I don't know, usually there's way too many midslots for insane tanks in shieldtanking capitals.
If you're going to use any of these setups, please let me come and fraps it. Or let INNO do it.
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.20 15:30:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Ather Ialeas TEXT TEXT TEXT
Revelation: Same as Aeon but with only 4 DCMLII:s. Ask Chribba tbh, he knows everything about mining with Revelation.
Avatar: Unfortunately this ship will suck in mining.
About the carriers, all wrong. They can't fit turrets at all so you have to drop the Mining Beams.
The Revelation, 3x MDCMII's since it only has 3 turret slots.
As for the Avatar, I'd say it would kick ass for mining with its giant cargo and 8x MDCMII's + drones(?), haven't had the chance of testing it myself tho
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Cyan007
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Posted - 2006.11.20 19:01:00 -
[16]
So this thread needs lots of clarification.
From what I'm understanding (confirm please?)
The gallante dreadnaught gets 250% bonus to mining drone yield (but you can only control 5 drones with such a ship yes?) unless you use some of the 4 highes for drone control slots.
I personally am amarr so that leves revelation archon and aeon.
the amarr dreadnaught has 4 highs. So only 4 deep core miners plus 5 drones to mine (not very good). ****Am I correct in that carriers CAN use high slot gang links but dreads can NOT yes?****
Amarr Carriers:
Archon - No turret slots so no miners can use gang laser optimization link can use drone optimization link combined with skills and link 22.5% cycle reduction 15% yield bonus for gang?
can ONLY mine with drones however - # of drones: 5 default + 1 per carrier level + 1 per drone control high slot module
maximum drones = 14 t2 drones or 14 harvesters (assuming 1 high slot using gang lasser optimzation module) all of this assumes appropriate skills
The Aeon Carrier/mothership I'm assuming this is almost impossible to buy for an individual?
But...correct me if I'm wrong? 6 high slots , no turret points so gang modules only same as previous carrier
HOWEVER: Drones - 5 + 3 per carrier level + 5 drone control highs = 25 t2 miner or harvester drones? + the gang module for lasers for gang mateS?
Can anyone confirmt his, probably ridiculous to plan for but I'm definitely going to do this in either carrier or dreadnaught verys oon.
very lame that the moros gets such a huge bonus to yield and others dont though :(
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Ather Ialeas
Amarr Karjala Inc. Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.20 19:07:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Chribba
Originally by: Ather Ialeas TEXT TEXT TEXT
Revelation: Same as Aeon but with only 4 DCMLII:s. Ask Chribba tbh, he knows everything about mining with Revelation.
Avatar: Unfortunately this ship will suck in mining.
About the carriers, all wrong. They can't fit turrets at all so you have to drop the Mining Beams.
The Revelation, 3x MDCMII's since it only has 3 turret slots.
As for the Avatar, I'd say it would kick ass for mining with its giant cargo and 8x MDCMII's + drones(?), haven't had the chance of testing it myself tho
Actually carriers can fit Modulated Deep Core Miner IIs since they're not classified as turrets
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Cyan007
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Posted - 2006.11.20 19:21:00 -
[18]
Hmmm that brings up the question then, is 3 more drone control units (3 more t2 mining drones or whatever) better than 3-4 dcm's. I'm betting the miners are better, but this just reinforces my belief in carrier mining!
What about the big 'aeon' mothership? Is this ship possible to get for x isk? Can it relaly control 25 mining drones and us 5-6 dcm's?
Anyway, doubt anyoen does this, just asking. I'll start with the first carrier :)
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.20 19:36:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Ather Ialeas Actually carriers can fit Modulated Deep Core Miner IIs since they're not classified as turrets
Is that a carrier only thing? Coz on my dread they counts as weapon turrets. But if it indeed is like you say I've been wrong, I will run to my carrier to try now.
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Cyan007
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Posted - 2006.11.20 19:47:00 -
[20]
Yeah, that doesn't make sense if dread can't and carrier can, someone pls confirm
And Chribba, I hear you mine in your amarr dreadnaught. Can you give me some information on this? what's your ore rate how's it compare etc etc? I'm assuming you can only use 5 mining drones...but amarr dread doesn't have turret hardpoints? ****...can it fit gang warfare modules like laser opt?
If not, what are you just mining with 5 t2 drones and that's it? seems awful
carrier unless im mistaken could mine with 14 drones and a laser module or 13 and 2 modules
the mothership even more...anyway any info is great, I'm fellow amarra s well
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.20 20:03:00 -
[21]
Fitting on a Carrier, just as I said before:
You cannot fit the Modulated Deep Core Miner II because your ship doesn't have any turret slots left for fitting, possibly because you have already filled your ship with turrets or that the ship simply can not be fitted with turrets.
Turret slots represent how many weapons of a certain type can be fitted on a ship. The current design is over a hundred years old, and is modular enough to allow for a great leeway in the fitting of various weaponry.
Originally by: Cyan007 Yeah, that doesn't make sense if dread can't and carrier can, someone pls confirm
And Chribba, I hear you mine in your amarr dreadnaught. Can you give me some information on this? what's your ore rate how's it compare etc etc? I'm assuming you can only use 5 mining drones...but amarr dread doesn't have turret hardpoints? ****...can it fit gang warfare modules like laser opt?
If not, what are you just mining with 5 t2 drones and that's it? seems awful
carrier unless im mistaken could mine with 14 drones and a laser module or 13 and 2 modules
the mothership even more...anyway any info is great, I'm fellow amarra s well
It has 3 turrets, so 3x MDCMII's+Crystals and 5 drones. It cannot fit gang modules but mining upgrades.
It isn't the speediest thing to mine in but with 8x Local Hulls you get 50K+ cargo which makes a great afk miner.
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Ather Ialeas
Amarr Karjala Inc. Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.20 20:11:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Chribba
Originally by: Ather Ialeas Actually carriers can fit Modulated Deep Core Miner IIs since they're not classified as turrets
Is that a carrier only thing? Coz on my dread they counts as weapon turrets. But if it indeed is like you say I've been wrong, I will run to my carrier to try now.
Well so I've heard. Only one way to find out I guess.
PS. Remember to pack the Veld Crystals.
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Cyan007
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Posted - 2006.11.20 20:22:00 -
[23]
Can anyone confirm carrier then 15 t2 mining drones or the mothership 25 t2 drones?
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.20 20:49:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Cyan007 Can anyone confirm carrier then 15 t2 mining drones or the mothership 25 t2 drones?
Yup should be about right.
Carrier: Drone Skill - 1+ per level = 5 Carrier Skill - 1+ per level = 5 Drone Units - 1+ per level = 5
Mothership Drone Skill - 1+ per level = 5 Carrier Skill - 3+ per level = 15 Drone Units - 1+ per level = 5
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Cyan007
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Posted - 2006.11.20 21:25:00 -
[25]
So Chribba,
Since you and I are amarr, can you tell me what your dread minining rate is? You mentioned using lows for upgrades, and I hear those stack so that might make it significant.
3 deep core miners with t2 crystals I imagine etc etc with a bunch of upgrades and 5 drones = how much m3/minute? Would be nice to see hwo that stacks up to an apoc mining for example or etc etc
I'm going to have to figure out what the #'s are on 14 t2 mining drones on a carrier with the 1 gang module...guess that'd simply be 3x what the miners would do on any other ship, curious what the m3/minute would be there, but I can figure that out myself I bet. Only reason I'm leaning carrier for this 'tank' is 1: the fighters to own any gankers, and 2: the laser optimization mdule to cut off 22.5% cycle time for all in gang that you can't do on a dread.
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Halada
Caldari STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.20 21:26:00 -
[26]
I gotta say ... I feel all funny inside.
That's a funny idea you had there !
My mining guide |
Cyan007
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Posted - 2006.11.20 21:36:00 -
[27]
What's a funny idea, using dreads and carriers for miner tanks? Just because you may be poor, or lacking vision don't take it out on us :)
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Halada
Caldari STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.20 22:01:00 -
[28]
Yeah, I'm poor and lack vision, and bring nothing good to this community !
My mining guide |
Cyan007
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Posted - 2006.11.20 22:09:00 -
[29]
The only reason not to use a carrier to tank is because you lacked the skills or are poor. It's definitely the best mining tank you can get that makes mining ez mode:)
As for lacking vision, well yes, you are in ASCN. You just lost an entire region because your alliance lacks vision.
And contribution? theonly thing you've contributed to this particular thread is trying to mock those that apaprently are more innovative than yourself.
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Cyan007
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Posted - 2006.11.20 22:42:00 -
[30]
I know mining. (apparently you don't) *** A carrier's tank will die vs one curse, a frig to tackle and 1-2 BS. NOTHING is that good. Besides, the Hulk is so much more effective and less expansive to lose. People get overconfident because they are in a carrier... *** So wait, you're telling me a carrier is going to die if 4 people with the exact setup come in and gank your mining group before you warp out? Furthermore, WTF is this carrier pilot doing with his 15 fighters while this stupid frigate 'locks him down'. Are you stupid? do you even play this game? with 15 fighters you could pop such a group so fast your head would spin. Are you sitting there assuming said carrier pilot is picking his behind doing nothing to stop this awe-inspiring offensive force you've gathered to 'gank' it? Honestly, you seem to be minng to much you dont understand the game at all. No curse/frigate/1-2 bs group is going to take a carrier that easily.
And more importantly, if yer stupid enough to let a group of 4-6+ come 'gank' you while you mine then yer an idiot. If there was that much traffic int he system I wouldn't be mining anyway I'd be at dock. And 99% of the mining gank squads are solo people, often times dual interceptors and nonsense like that. Go ahead and waste your hulk. Not to mention you miss the BIGGEST POINT of using a carrier. Coupled with the 'I know mining' you sure are making yourself look stupid. Carriers - Battlecruiser - gosh, why would you want to have 1 of these in a gang? Could it be the links? The whole point of this is, you either A: have a battlecruiser or B use the carrier which *gasp* can use the same gang warfare links. When you 'happen' to be solo, which would be silly, and didn't want to risk tanking your hulk, or use 1 hulk and 1 "tank" a BC is really poor at this, doesn't mine much at all and on and on, while a carrier can do drastically more. Especially a carrier with 25 drones mining. (granted that's an absurd use of a mothership but very effective nonetheless) I can't help but be insulting when you look at 1 aspect of things and apply your little 'I know mining' paintbrush to everything.
*** I will assume you are a BoB Alt for bringing my alliance into this thread (which has nothing to do with it)... kiddie insults and alt posting... totally lame *** You assume I'm a bob alt because I know how utterly ridiculously you're being wiped off the entire game map? Gee, and here I would have thought 99.9% of the people on this forum know that. nuff said
*** Anyway, carrier mining is wrong on many levels, and should only be done if you're a casual miner (as in rarely) or want to experience something new. A mining carrier clearly isnt the way to go. *** Casual miner? Like a casual miner is going to have 6+ months of training skills including the necessary drone skills and waht not to accomplish this? Quite the opposite, this is for the severely hard core miners, that want to help their corp mates as best they can in gangs, and still be ridiculously prepared for a gank when solo on their own accounts. Obviously Hulks are used to do the actual grunt work in these scenarios.
I mean duh
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Halada
Caldari STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.21 05:59:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Halada on 21/11/2006 06:01:01
Originally by: Cyan007 I know mining. (apparently you don't)
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=305662
My mining guide |
Ather Ialeas
Amarr Karjala Inc. Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.21 07:31:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Halada Edited by: Halada on 21/11/2006 06:01:01
Originally by: Cyan007 I know mining. (apparently you don't)
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=305662
Owned. Bobbit alt, shoo!
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Reverend Revelator
Elite Storm Enterprises Storm Armada
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Posted - 2006.11.21 11:45:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Halada Edited by: Halada on 21/11/2006 06:01:01
Originally by: Cyan007 I know mining. (apparently you don't)
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=305662
Ooohhh, that's one of the most amazing forum ganks I have ever seen, one for the books for sure. :)
Speaking as a noob mining in 0.0, personally it got to easy mode tanking triple 0.0 1.5m rats once I got into my Dominizzle, and even with Eutectics it didn't even break 90m in cost for me. AND it can mine aaaalllllmost as good as a basic Retriever.
So that's great tanking and good mining for not even 1/10 of the price of a capital ship, and if you put some t2 heavies and mediums in there, you have some defense as well.
Lastly, even if you DID pwn the hostile with your uber miningcarrier of d00m, the first thing that pilot would say in his corp/alliance chat is 'DUDES! There is some idiot mining in XX-X1X with a frickin' CARRIER, who wants a cheap kill????', with predictable results.
-- Dead People Laugh At The Murder Of Love -- |
Pantheon Lea
Farmer Boyz
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Posted - 2006.11.21 13:09:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Halada
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=305662
priceless...
Pantheon Lea
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Sku1ly
STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.21 15:35:00 -
[35]
Halada may not know how to PVP, but he just spanked your fat ass.
STK-S |
Fortior
STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.21 16:42:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Halada Edited by: Halada on 21/11/2006 06:01:01
Originally by: Cyan007 I know mining. (apparently you don't)
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=305662
Roflpop
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Helen
STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.21 17:22:00 -
[37]
Hehe Halada can't pvp for **** but he knows mining.
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Sergeant Benton
Caldari United Nations Intelligence Taskforce
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Posted - 2006.11.21 17:29:00 -
[38]
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha *breathe* hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Funniest thing I've seen in weeks :D :D Someone got seriously pwnt!
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Lungorthin
Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.11.21 18:48:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Halada Edited by: Halada on 21/11/2006 06:01:01
Originally by: Cyan007 I know mining. (apparently you don't)
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=305662
/me bows
TouchT!
. Disclaimer: I have no idea who that Cyan007 is. I always post with my main, which has gotten me into some trouble more than once, hehe.
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Benedict Arnoldd
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Posted - 2006.11.21 21:02:00 -
[40]
i say go for it. i have mined in a mach, cnr. sure want to try mining in titans or motherships. let me build/fly one in safe empire so i can afk mine in a pretty nice .9 system.
i leave on a armor repper and go afk for hours. just let it sit there
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Halada
Caldari STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.21 21:27:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Benedict Arnoldd i say go for it. i have mined in a mach, cnr. sure want to try mining in titans or motherships. let me build/fly one in safe empire so i can afk mine in a pretty nice .9 system.
i leave on a armor repper and go afk for hours. just let it sit there
You broke the chain. You will have bad sex for the next 7 years (of if you're still a virgin, from the point you start on).
Bobbit alt forum pwnage |
Cassiuss
Minmatar STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.22 02:36:00 -
[42]
Too funny Hal, ya mining newb.
Cassiuss, STK-S Recruitment Officer
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Kitia
STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.22 09:22:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Halada Edited by: Halada on 21/11/2006 06:01:01
Originally by: Cyan007 I know mining. (apparently you don't)
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=305662
HARHARHARHAHR
Classic WTF!!!PAWNED!!!!!
Originally by: Cyan007 And contribution? theonly thing you've contributed to this particular thread is trying to mock those that apaprently are more innovative than yourself.
Oh Wait there is more HARHARHARHARHAR
Nice one Hal..
Kitia
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Kristof Foxen
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Posted - 2006.11.22 13:52:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Cyan007 And contribution? theonly thing you've contributed to this particular thread is trying to mock those that apaprently are more innovative than yourself.
Wow. You call that innovation? "OMGZ DUDEZ I CAN USE THE MOST POWERFUL SHIP IN DA GAME TO MINE IT WILL MINE RLY SLOW COMPARED TO HULK AND BE A JIANT TAR-GUT BUT BUT BUT OMGZ IT IS BEST TANK BECAUSE IT IS BIGGEST SHIP NEXT TO TITAN!1!11lolz!!1one!one!eleven!"
Dude, it takes looking at the ship section of the EVE online items database for about six seconds to realize that if you strap mining lasers onto a REALLY big ship, its probably going to be fairly survivable. But why bother? And besides, carriers are a double-edged sword.. first, if you DO lose it, it will cost a lot more than a Hulk to replace. And second, sure, you might tank NPCs fine, but carriers are also huge target symbols that attract attention.. something a peaceful miner rarely wants.
Really though, I should just stop there, as nothing I can say sums it up better than the way you just got owned by Halada. That was inspiring.
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Ima Whore
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Posted - 2006.11.23 01:43:00 -
[45]
LMAO, nice Hal!
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Petrea Mist
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Posted - 2006.11.23 10:57:00 -
[46]
I just had to say something...or act in some way...that pwnage was just...the best ever...You have officially WON EVE!!!! I followed that guide like it was the bible and I was in a **** bible cult and I have made too many billions because of your help...If there is anyone who knows how to mine it¦s you!
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Halada
Caldari STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.23 12:51:00 -
[47]
Funny we haven't heard of him in the past days. I bet he created another alt to do some more smacktalk !
Bobbit alt forum pwnage |
Helen
STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.23 13:47:00 -
[48]
Petrea Mist your little smily bloke in your sig highly disturbs me.
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Harris
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Posted - 2006.11.23 17:58:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Cyan007 Just because you may be poor, or lacking vision don't take it out on us :)
Smirk....
Originally by: Cyan007 ... And contribution? the only thing you've contributed to this particular thread is trying to mock those that apaprently are more innovative than yourself.
Giggle.....
Originally by: Cyan007 I know mining. (apparently you don't)......
Laugh out Loud.....
Originally by: Cyan007 Coupled with the 'I know mining' you sure are making yourself look stupid.
Originally by: Cyan007 I mean.............DDDDUUUUHHHHHHH
Originally by: Cyan007 you sure are making yourself look stupid.
Originally by: Cyan007 look stupid.
Originally by: Cyan007 stupid.
Sorry to reply so late, but I watched that thread develop with almost morbid fascination. A true forum pwnage if ever there was one.
Way to go Halada
To the OP. Yes, mining in a cap ship is emminantly doable but it's not cost efficient and there are easier ways to make your money if mining is your game. Ather Ialeas had the right idea on setups though. If you really do want to mine in a cap ship so that you can say you're mining in a capital ship, then go that route. If you want to make money safely then there are better ships to be doing it in.
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King Jareth
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Posted - 2006.11.25 22:33:00 -
[50]
I love your mining guide, and thank you for making it. Theres nothing more that I can really say. Its simply the best guide to mining Ive found.
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Chronus26
Gallente Dark Blood Contracts
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Posted - 2006.11.26 11:12:00 -
[51]
Lol, this thread made me laugh, reminds me of my friend taking his new moros out to mine because he didnt have the skill for Capiral turrets trained
An Aeon weilding 25 Mining drones would be a terrifying sight... if you happened to be a 'roid. ----- Move along, nothing to see here... |
Tolomea
Gallente 5th Front enterprises New Eve Order
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Posted - 2006.11.27 00:27:00 -
[52]
Most excellent smack down.
That said... Given that in a team mining setup you have to have some non-barge ships out there to run the gang module and deal with the bigger rats and the casual pirates, how does a carrier actually compare to a BC or command ship for the gang leader/defender role?
Obviously it's like having a huge "come kill me" banner, and when they do come kill you it's going to be very expensive. However it does have the ability to deploy a fighter shield which as far as I can tell is far more firepower than you are going to get out of any BC or command ship. And fitted for max shooty it can still mine unlike a BC or command ship.
So how does it actually stack up?
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Adrian Kerensky
Caldari STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.27 01:24:00 -
[53]
HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA
PWNED
Funnist thread I have ever read...ever.
Latest Vid: Curses to all |
zacuis
Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.11.27 19:31:00 -
[54]
omg im so glad i read this post that was with out a doute the best forum pwnage ive ever seen
thanks for making my day lmao
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R'adeh
Celestial Fleet Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.27 22:40:00 -
[55]
Just wow! It's as if someone told Farjung he's a crappy blasterthron pilot
"Headshot!" (UT) "10 times multiplier" (SSX Tricky) __________________________________________________
My views are my own and I don't represent my corp. Please show mercy Drakma! |
Dao 2
Generals Of Destruction Syndicate Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2006.11.28 00:23:00 -
[56]
AHAHAHAHA ;p ------------------------------------------------ NEWLY ADDED ON 1/19 (though applies to all posts before ;p)
the usual "I don't represent my corp or alliance" and stuffs like that
Also the gal |
LUKEC
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.11.29 15:12:00 -
[57]
So... can i start using locator agent -------- The BoB model is bad for business. Incidently the BoB model is more suited for a game such as WoW where as the ASCN model more suited for Eve.
McGreedy |
Cynoslaver
|
Posted - 2006.11.30 21:29:00 -
[58]
You're right this is the funniest forum post I've ever seen.
You have 1 idiot who think's he's God's gift to mining because he put down in a guide what the majority of the eve community has known for over a year.
He makes a stupid comment about carrier mining having absolutely no experience in the field whatsoever and points to his 'uber mining knowledge' as proof of his uber-rightness in his opinions.
Comes on here and instead of actually making a logical point or argument posts his "mining thread link" and commences to ask all his mindless idiot buddies to come onto the forum and say "ZOMG GOLLY GEE WILLAKERS SMACKDOWN PWNED BOBBIT ALT"
The fact that you accuse me of being in BOB just shows what a frigging moron you are. ***************** Part 2
So let's get this straight. In your own mining guide (new version) you stated that carriers are horrible for mining gangs. And you changed your opinion with the comment that they would be good tanks.
So let's see if I understand you correctly.
Mining gang - with carrier tanking (far better than any BS ever will)
So this "1 bil too costly ship" as you call it (which actually costs less than your stupid hulk with all the mods you have on it) though comparing it to the hulk is in fact stupid in and of itself since this ship is obviously being used as a gang module booster for the corp.
1: Tanks far better than anything else in your guide, ridiculously better in fact not only can it tank better it can fry 99% of the gank squads that would come after it.
2: Costs pretty much the same or less than a hulk with all your faction mods on it anyway, making your financial argument look pretty stupid at this point. Gist a + 500 mil hulk plus faction hardeners plus etc the price isn't much dif esp when you consider the hulk insures for a whopping what...50 mil? 30 mil?
3: Can deploy 14 fighters or 14 smaller t2 drones on a whim to deal with hostiles or errant rats.
4: With your own number calculations the drones can make upwards of 50 million isk per hour
5: While mining 50 mil an hour, this 'stupid carrier' can provide a 15% yield bonus and 22.5% cycle reduction to the ENTIRE mining gang at the same time it's piling in 50 mil an hour in ore itself. (50 mil x 20 hours = 1 bil just in case you are poor at math)
What else have I missed? You know..I've never felt so "forum slapped" in my entire life.
So tell me truely, your entire argument surely must be based upon some actual logic commons ense or fact other than the 'carriers make big targets and you'll attract attention'. Last time I checked moron so do 500 mil hulks with faction mods. Tell me you have something more logical to say here other than posting your link again and saying 'zomg I wtfbbq'd some forum guy' because honestly. All these mindless idiots can back you all they want, I do find it interesting that not a ****ed one actually made an actual argument here, they just mindlessly sucked your *ahem*
Nuff said
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iceyreloaded
Amarr Sha Kharn Corp Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.12.01 02:02:00 -
[59]
HAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAA
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Synnamon
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Posted - 2006.12.01 04:51:00 -
[60]
So another ascn guy responds with hahahahaha?
I think you have a point man. You just have a lot of blind worshipers here who seem unable to read facts. Of course it's all meaningless to me since it would take me 10 years to get into a carrier to do this, and probably can be said for the majority of people reading this post. Most couldn't dream of using a carrier, the other half doesn't understand the use of them and would see this as a waste of money.
Your information seems valid though, I guess it's just a rich man's version of a battlecruiser when it comes down to it, nice gang bonus! Anyway, amazing how many stupid flamers come on these forums with nothing more to say than ha ha ha ha ha. Average age = 10?
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CelticKnight
Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.12.01 05:22:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Halada I know mining.
A carrier's tank will die vs one curse, a frig to tackle and 1-2 BS. NOTHING is that good. Besides, the Hulk is so much more effective and less expansive to lose. People get overconfident because they are in a carrier...
I will assume you are a BoB Alt for bringing my alliance into this thread (which has nothing to do with it)... kiddie insults and alt posting... totally lame
Anyway, carrier mining is wrong on many levels, and should only be done if you're a casual miner (as in rarely) or want to experience something new. A mining carrier clearly isnt the way to go.
Laughed when i read this... curse vs 15 heavy drones.. curse pops.. carrier can tank 2 bs forever (with kali it would STILL take the bs several hours to kill the carriers 250k hp :D)
Anyway.. curse pops.. heavies go back in, lights come out.. ceptor pops.. Lights go back in.. fighters come out.. By this time the BS pilots have &^$% thier pants and run for the nearest gate.... Quotes:
Originally by: Backdoor Bandit I just consulted my Magic 8-Ball, it told me to prepare for flamage.
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Cynoslaver
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Posted - 2006.12.01 05:53:00 -
[62]
Oh the irony...someone who has a clue, realizing how stupid this guy is. And from his own alliance no doubt.
And this after he comes out with some 10 year old comment about 'ZOMG I JUST FORUM OWNED BLA BLA BLA" in his new guide.
lol....
classic
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Halada
Caldari STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.12.01 08:19:00 -
[63]
Right, I don't have a clue and my whole guide is baloney
You're such a loser, you should have crawled back to your ****hole with the very tiny little bit of dignity you had left. If you had any balls AT ALL you would post with your main so we can put a face on you, yet you still think you're so hot and cool and you still post anon hiding... I have zero respect for such persons. Even more when they come smack talking around, and calling me a 10 years old because I used humor in my guide? Just for the sake of the argument...
Originally by: Cynoslaver
You have 1 idiot who think's he's God's gift to mining because he put down in a guide what the majority of the eve community has known for over a year.
That IS a nice definition. You have some intelligence. All hope isn't lost yet.
Originally by: Cynoslaver
He makes a stupid comment about carrier mining having absolutely no experience in the field whatsoever and points to his 'uber mining knowledge' as proof of his uber-rightness in his opinions.
I don't post crap without backing it. I gave you hard mathematical facts that mining in a carrier brings no good benefit, in fact a **** RETRIEVER will do just as well...
Originally by: Cynoslaver
The fact that you accuse me of being in BOB just shows what a frigging moron you are.
Ok ...
I guess you don't show your true face because you're scared we will find you in Delve and wtfpwn you? Your math is out the window. Don't come here and tell me I didn't do any reasoning, the whole 48 pages is just that. I say it again, a retriever will do as good as a carrier, with a Domi in the belt tanking... the whole thing will cost you less than 100 mil, and if you lose any of it, you end up with a few mil in losses because the insurances covers the rest.
Go ahead and mine in your carrier, you have lost all credibility to me and anyone here probably. Ciao ciao !
CelticKnight - The curse will wtfpwnecm your ass before you can even lock it... you mind telling me how long it would take even if you could lock it ? That's what I thought... we ALL know a solo carrier won,t survive vs a small skilled gang of pi
The best mining guide in the galaxy |
Reverend Revelator
Elite Storm Enterprises Storm Armada
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Posted - 2006.12.01 11:36:00 -
[64]
Hot diggety, the moron came back for more pwnage, talk about glutton for punishment.
Yes, we all know carrier is a good tank, but the problem is there isn't anything out there you can't tank in a dominix, and a dominix is 1/10 the cost or less, and is also 10 times easier to get, not to mention move around, AND will outmine your carrier. 6 Miner IIs + 5 t2 drones > 14 t2 drones.
And yes, carrier can stick on the gang modules and give bonuses to the whole gang, but a BC can do the same, AND prolly outmine your carrier AGAIN, for about 1/20 the cost.
Also comparing the cost of hulk to cost of carrier is insane, since a hulk will outmine a carrier by such a huge factor it's not even funny, oh and guess what? It can tank the rats. :)
And where the F did you get the number 50m/hour from 14 t2 drones from? A t2 drone will pull 3 bistot per 1 min cycle, 14 of them will pull 42 bistot. Assuming you actually get 1 cycle per minute, which you won't btw but heck let's be generous, that's 2520 bistot/hour, and assuming you can get 9500 isk per bistot (it will be a bit less than that in fact, but once again let's be generous) it all comes to about 24m/hour.
Unless I'm totally wrong ofc, and carrier mining drones get more than 3/cycle, in which case I'm sure someone will show me the error of my ways. :)
-- Dead People Laugh At The Murder Of Love -- |
Halada
Caldari STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.12.01 14:25:00 -
[65]
By the way you won't be even close to 50mil/hour ... since I suspect you won't waste your carrier rigs on mining drone augmentators (but you might...), the table says 45mil MAX without even factoring the drone traveling time...
I'd be very suprised a carrier pilot would have Mining Director V, Mining Foreman V and Mining Drone Operation 5... if he did, having all his drones out would mean if he's jumped by a small gang, not only will he be scrambled and jammed while he recalls his mining drones, he will be useless all-in-all.
Your 50mil/hour is WAY off and it will never happen in the practical world and this is mentionned in the guide as well.
The best mining guide in the galaxy |
Cynoslaver
|
Posted - 2006.12.01 17:39:00 -
[66]
Halada you are truely the biggest jack**** I've ever seen on these forums. It's idiots like you who know something about x and thinkt hey know everythign about the ****ed game.
If you recall you imbesile yer the one who came into MY thread and started mocking the 4-5 peopel who were talking about dread/carrier mining like you were God's gift to the universe and no amount of having your lackey worshipers comeon here to flame me is going to change that.
And PS why the hell would I want to come on with some othe alt so you can what, have your army of 20 morons spam me and harass me in game too with your 10 year old stupidity? No, I'll just let you continue to make an ass out of yourself accusing everyone of being bobits because they think you're an idiot and your alliance sucks. Because only bobits would do that rofl.
Let's look at your ever so stupid points you just made:
"I don't post crap without backing it. I gave you hard mathematical facts that mining in a carrier brings no good benefit, in fact a **** RETRIEVER will do just as well... "
This is probably one of your most idiotic points in the whole argument.
1: a retriever doesn't tank you moron. 2: a retriever certainly isn't going to gank a gank squad that comes in to kill your miners 3: a retriever can't fit laser optimization and drone optimization so the entire GANG gets benefits from this as well as all of the above you stupid idiot.
Yer sitting here comparing apples to oranges and trying to paint everything with a single brush stroke what an idiot. I gave you too much credit for intelligence apparently after reading your guide. What are you going to say next...the domi sucks as a tank, because a covetor outmines it! woot woot
"I say it again, a retriever will do as good as a carrier, with a Domi in the belt tanking... the whole thing will cost you less than 100 mil, and if you lose any of it, you end up with a few mil in losses because the insurances covers the rest. "
Wait, so what you're trying to tell us, oh mighty knowledgeable moron, is that a retriever, with a domi tanking is going to outmine the carrier. WOW holy crap someone call the world record committe, we have a winner.
So golly, 2 accounts is better than one? Idiot...maybe I should start arguing about how bad a hulk is because 10 retrievers can outmine it. What an idiot. Who gives a rats ass if a retriever can outmine the carrier (not by much mind you) refer to 1.2.3.4 above you idiot, you miss the ENTIRE point of using a carrier yet again.
gang 1: 1 hulk 1 apoc 1 hauler
gang 2 1 hulk 1 carrier (using drones and gang links) 1 hauler
HMMMMMM which one would you rather be in you flipping idiot, and which one do you think is safer from the casual gang squad? I guarnatee gang 2 is making a hell of a lot more money than gang 1 due to the links alone let alone infiniately more security esp in low traffic 0.0 areas of space where yer only dealing with the casual ganker here and there lookin for cheap indy kills in their hacs or nonsense. (and if you think a curse is goign to last against a carrier, i mean how can anyone argue with that? That's the dumbest thing i've heard since this game came out).
"CelticKnight - The curse will wtfpwnecm your ass before you can even lock it... you mind telling me how long it would take even if you could lock it ? That's what I thought... we ALL know a solo carrier won,t survive vs a small skilled gang of pi"
Dude, this is yer own corp-mate calling youa flipping idiot. And yer still here mocking ME rofl. First of all, yer f'ing mining. Why the hell would you not be docking immediately when 5 hostiles enter the system? Even if these 5 hostiles in your ridiculous scenario could take out the carrier so easily? Taht's just stupid. You think yer safer in your domi or something? You really think a curse can survive 15 t2 heavies or something? or the inti locking the carrier down is going to survive 15 t2 lights?
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Cynoslaver
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Posted - 2006.12.01 17:45:00 -
[67]
ran out of space flaming this moron
I mean honestly what game are you playing? How the hell long do you think it takes to scoop and deplay? You idiot even know how many hp a carrier has not to mention with a repper on? Assuming you were dumb enough to wait for them to find you in the belt and bla bla bla?
"Yes, we all know carrier is a good tank, but the problem is there isn't anything out there you can't tank in a dominix, and a dominix is 1/10 the cost or less, and is also 10 times easier to get, not to mention move around, AND will outmine your carrier. 6 Miner IIs + 5 t2 drones > 14 t2 drones.
And yes, carrier can stick on the gang modules and give bonuses to the whole gang, but a BC can do the same, AND prolly outmine your carrier AGAIN, for about 1/20 the cost."
Again, the point isn't about tank survivability obviously, domi or apoc does just fine. The dif is the domi or apoc equipped in such a way is absolutely defenseless. and why the hell would you compare mining of the hulk and the carrier? Idiot..the whole point of the carrier (yet again I have to repeat this to you) is to give your GANG the bonuses, and still be able to pull in some mine with good tank and defensive capabilities.
Why don't you log onto the test server and see if a hac can take out a hulk before the carrier can take it out in turn? clueless aren't you?
Lastly, I got the 50 mil an our from YOUR OWN GUIDE you stuipd wretched moron. Now you're mocking #'s from yhour own damed guide? So 50 mil is a max and not entirely realistic whoopdydo, again not the point. I sure as hell in the past not even come close to that tanking in an apoc either, so what'syour point here exactly? Just more nonsensE?
And yes, actually carrier pilot in this scenario would have all those skills, taht's the point. A BC account is basically a waste of space, can't mien for crap (command ships are better of course).
And if you wanted to be really ridiculous though...I personally probably will never take it this farm, you could mine in a mothership, be immune to elec warfare ;) and have 24 t2 mining drones out with the other mods boosting gang rofl...ok that's absurd...anyway
Sorry Halada, but yer just a *****. You were rude breaking into our first convo about this, you were rude in the way you talked to the people in the thread, and you're immature here. Even if you were right about any of this debate, youv'e shown yourself to be a true 10 year old little boy, and regardless of how many of your lackey worshipers come on here and randomly say 'haha haha' without an actual opinion a large number of people have seen what a putz you are now.
toodles
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Reverend Revelator
Elite Storm Enterprises Storm Armada
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Posted - 2006.12.01 18:13:00 -
[68]
Oh goody, more insane ranting. You are the gift that just keeps on giving aren't you Cyno? :)
-- Dead People Laugh At The Murder Of Love -- |
Halada
Caldari STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.12.01 18:32:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Halada on 01/12/2006 18:36:04 I didn't bother to read anything you wrote, I bet it's all about how a moron I am, and how I'm wrong and you are right about everything.
Am I close?
Oh and more alt posting ...
Earth Rock Rock-bottom Sheit You
The best mining guide in the galaxy |
Cynoslaver
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Posted - 2006.12.01 18:50:00 -
[70]
Chuckle - of course you didn't reply to it moron. I know you read it though. And you didn't reply because you can't refute a ****ed bit of it.
I mean dear lord, your own corp mate is calling you an idiot at this point. So play your little 'i didn't read it' game...I'm sure someone will believe you moron.
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Halada
Caldari STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.12.01 19:00:00 -
[71]
More alt spamming... post with your main and I'll start replying to you nub
The best mining guide in the galaxy |
Cynoslaver
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Posted - 2006.12.01 19:04:00 -
[72]
You are replying you idiot. You can't even get that straight? Sides...wtf do I care if you don't respond to my last total complete annihilation of your idiotic points?
just proves what a fool you were and yer too embarassed to own up to it.
Nuff said
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Halada
Caldari STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.12.01 19:09:00 -
[73]
You're funny :D
I don't need to refute anything you say, I've got a 48 pages guide and one whole section dedicated to capital ship mining with hard mathematical and statistical facts to do it for me.
When you can top that you come back to me with your main and we will talk ok? It was funny, now you're such a pathetic loser I feel sorry for you
That's the last you'll hear from me.
The best mining guide in the galaxy |
Cynoslaver
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Posted - 2006.12.01 19:43:00 -
[74]
You're funny :D
*****I don't need to refute anything you say, I've got a 48 pages guide and one whole section dedicated to capital ship mining with hard mathematical and statistical facts to do it for me.**********
Would that be your thread for the past year that was constantly ridiculed and mocked as being ridiculously inaccurate? Oh hold up that holy grail of stupidity again. "I have posted a thread of stats therefore, all I say is wise" rofl. Truely sad.
******** When you can top that you come back to me with your main and we will talk ok? It was funny, now you're such a pathetic loser I feel sorry for you ******** Where are all your forum slaves now lil boy? You made an argument. Your argument proceeded to get totally completely annihilated, embarassing the holy hell out of you. And your only response at this point is to actually blather on about your supposed past forum glory? ROFL...man this is like watching a train wreck.
This is what happens when people lose an argument, know they lose it, and feel stupid. They avoid the topic entirely.
You know absolutely nothing about capital ships, their functionality, their survivability, or anything about pvp obviously. Your own CORP mates in ASCN are calling you an idiot mocking your own comments and you still think you're right? How can anyone argue in the fact of that kind of stupdity?
You've been served, have a nice day nub. PS, have fun losing the rest of your space, I'm sure you can go back to mining in empire. *** That's the last you'll hear from me. *** I know it is, because you can't argue with facts. Also: Our cruisers can not repel stupidity of your magnitude.
good riddance nub
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Reverend Revelator
Elite Storm Enterprises Storm Armada
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Posted - 2006.12.01 20:26:00 -
[75]
Cyno, hundreds, if not thousands, have gotten filthy disgusting obscenely rich reading Haladas guide, and following it to mining riches. Noone has made a single isk listening to you, that's for sure. :)
-- Dead People Laugh At The Murder Of Love -- |
Weihenstephan
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2006.12.01 21:02:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Weihenstephan on 01/12/2006 21:12:49 Cynodude- You should shut the hell up. Your little obssession of always posting to try and have the last word shows how utterly desperate you are to win back your honor, which you don't have anymore in any quantity.
You should have admitted defeat (the ASCN guy who reponded made a comment about how the carrier wouldn't actually die, he didn't say Halada wasn't right about the idea of mining in a carrier is stupid) and left it alone. Even someone in your own alliance admired the owning you suffered.
His last guide was read a little over 165 000 times, that's a lot of people saying thank you. You will never convince anyone on this board that you are actually right and Halada is an idiot. Shall we take the word of a known expert who took what probably took hours and hours to write a guide for the community out of mere helpfulness or the word of a kid who can't even have the decency to post using his main character ?
Right about now you probably never will reveal your true self since the embarrassment would probably be too much to bear, but do yourself a favor and let it go. I'm sure people are ashamed even for you at the moment.
Let it go dude, you're making a fool of yourself right now
Edit: I just checked, there is no mention whatsoever of a carrier making 50mil an hour in a carrier, and it is clearly mentioned that those values do not factor what I think he calls the traveling factor. You mind telling me why you say he's mocking his own values when in fact he just repeated what was exactly written? Maybe you shouldn't.
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Cynoslaver
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Posted - 2006.12.01 22:22:00 -
[77]
Yeah, because you idiots aren't trying to get the last word here lol. You can blather all you want the bottom line is Halada was wrong, and even his own corp mates were mocking him. Every single moron who posted in this thread (including yourself) hasn't even made 1 actual comment about the actual debate in question. In fact you've contributed absolutely nothing to the debate either way other than to mindlessly suck Halada's male appendage.
Yes, the ASCN guy who came onto this forum, looked at what his own corp mate said, and actually LOL'd out of Halada's ignorance. So what's this tell you? Probably nothing because you're a moron. It tells me Halada speaks out his anal cavity in complete ignorance and tries to pass it off as authority and you yuppies swallow it wholesale never questioning a damned thing. The same way he posted incorrect data and information that had thousands of people saying 'um...these figures aren't right'. Dear lord, how many times did we have to correct his information in his first guide? The dif is I'm not ignorant enough to assume this morin is right because he wasted his time trying to make himself feel important on a forum.
Not to mention the fact that WHAT THE HELL does his mining guide have a god damned thing to do with him being right or wrong about carriers? The answer is nothing. You want to take what this idiot says as gospel go for it. Logical people will actually I dont know, applys ome logic and question. He has never even flown a carrier, probably never even seen one, and you are goign to take his word as gospel for their functionality in mining? I'm sorry, that's frigging stupid any way you look at it.
Wait...so the onus is on me, who was involved in this thread, as THIS character BEFORE this jackass started yapping his mouth to somehow change the character I'm posting on to make you idiots feel better about yourslves? You can rationalize your stupidity all you want. I'm not going to change my character ID just to make you feel better, esp since HE hijacked the thread not me.
And no, you're the fools. You admittedly listen to a guy talk about a ship he's neither seen nor flown, and apparently doesn't even know the logistics of. To such an extent that his own corpmates are laughing at him about it. Wow...rocket science.
PS look in this very thread you idiot, he clearly outlines his'off the cuff' carrier income predictions. If it's not there or here now it's cuz the moron deleted it out of embarassment.
I stand by my last response that was actually on-topic completely annihilating this idiot's remarks. And there hasn't been a damned person in this forum actually refuting any facts here, just babbling nonsense about how much you love your lover Halada.
In short, you don't argue because you can't win. Gosh...seen this before.
The fact that yer still accusing me of being a BOB alt "just because Halada said so" shows me how utterly stupid you are.
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Synnamon
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Posted - 2006.12.01 22:35:00 -
[78]
All I see here is 1 guy making an argument, another guy making counter arguments and a bunch of jerks randomly flaming without saying anything. No wonder this looks like a bob/ascn thread, you have 2 people debating a topic and 20 a-holes being jerks to everyone.
As far as in response to the last guy or guy before last? You ask something like should we take halada's word on all this stuff? I'm seriously doubting it myself, when he thinks a curse with a couple of BS is going to own a carrier, he's showing he doesn't know what he's talking about, and at the same time trying to teach everyone here facts about related topic? If you are ignorant about a subject you shouldn't try to pass on what little you do know as fact, it weakens your entire argument.
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Weihenstephan
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2006.12.01 22:37:00 -
[79]
Edited by: Weihenstephan on 01/12/2006 22:38:16 There was no need to debate, the debate was already over after you lost. You can have a BC with the link and tank as well as the carrier in 0.0 while a retriever mines away. The result will be the same as a carrier tanking, for a FRACTION of the cost but you won't bring too much attention to yourself.
Other than the e-peen factor, there is no sense in mining in a carrier whatsoever. So you keep calling us all idiots, and yet, so you think you're actually the smart one ?
I guess there's nothing wrong with trying, no matter what we say you will call us idiots and keep ranting. And we are the 10 years old children? By the the ASCN guy who responded is not in his corp, or can you not read?
Anyway, I give up with you, I will do as probably everyone else did, that is, forget you ever existed and continue on with my day.
Edit: There really should be a rule that disallows alt posting, I'm pretty sure every alt post in this thread are the same guy... 12 year old kids behaviors, is this WOW ??
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Donald 01Miner
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Posted - 2006.12.01 22:38:00 -
[80]
Hmmmmm
I'm a Bob slave as ASCN would put it, and a carrier pilot myself do I hold any credibility?
Other than the fact that this guy is in ASCN which I find icky to begin with, he really is clueless about carriers. Though on a side note, I love his mining guide and have used it many many times. Odd that this thread is so hostile about us carrier pilots, what do you guys have against us??? rude
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Cynoslaver
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Posted - 2006.12.01 22:47:00 -
[81]
************ There was no need to debate, the debate was already over after you lost. You can have a BC with the link and tank as well as the carrier in 0.0 while a retriever mines away. The result will be the same as a carrier tanking, for a FRACTION of the cost but you won't bring too much attention to yourself. ************** When you say idiotic things like this, you get called an idiot. It's natural laws of physics. You eat crap, you crap out. So now a BC can tank as good as a carrier? That says it all doesn't it. You sir, are an idiot. I mean...if you are an idiot, and you say idiotic things, why flame me for calling you out on it? You just said a BC can tank as well as a carrier. So your entire argument seems to be based upon this 'attention' thing. News flash to you morons, people mine in carriers all the time, doing exactly what I describe. And they seem to be doing it just fine, in fact ganking the crap out of would be killers who would have otherwise normally killed them. This proves you are in fact an idiot. You speak in nothing but theory craft. ****** Other than the e-peen factor, there is no sense in mining in a carrier whatsoever. So you keep calling us all idiots, and yet, so you think you're actually the smart one ? ****** Yes, because that extra 1 bil is nothing but e=peen. Any time poor morons like you see someone else with more money you refer to their expenditure as e-peen. I've given about 10 scenarios here in which the carrier is advantageous. Furthermore this is being practied daily in real life situations proving everythign I say wrong. Are you that frigging ignorant to think people aren't doing exactly what I describe? If we could do it in a mothership we would be :)
***** I guess there's nothing wrong with trying, no matter what we say you will call us idiots and keep ranting. And we are the 10 years old children? By the the ASCN guy who responded is not in his corp, or can you not read? **** No, when you say something idiotic I'll call you an idiot. Just like when you agree with everything Halada says jsut because he posted some guide that got edited 5 billion times. In this very thread Halada just claimed a 4 man crew in an intercepter and curse is going to 'totally own' any carrier. This is a blindingly bright example of just how ignorant this guy is, and you still defend him. I'm sorry, but yes that is idiotic.
**** Anyway, I give up with you, I will do as probably everyone else did, that is, forget you ever existed and continue on with my day. ***** Yes I'm sure everyone is doing just that. And those people with actual brains and vision are reading what's actually wrote in here instead of flaming like 10 year olds about something they don't understand and realizing the wisdom of it.
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Sku1ly
STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.12.02 00:33:00 -
[82]
Sku1ly's official statement on cyno : You're a****got.
STK-S |
Hori To
Kinda'Shujaa Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2006.12.02 03:55:00 -
[83]
actually having a carrier mining in a gang makes sense to me as long as you don't mind the high-cost.
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Mondo Banana
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Posted - 2006.12.02 17:24:00 -
[84]
I think the best part is that this cyno guy is having to delete his characters just to make more alts to agree with himself.
Kind of the internet equivalent of a self-suck!
Probably won't even leave his house anymore in case someone adds a post and he misses the chance to add yet another alt reply.
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Weihenstephan
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2006.12.02 18:31:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Mondo Banana Kind of the internet equivalent of a self-suck!
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Cynoslaver
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Posted - 2006.12.02 21:13:00 -
[86]
Yeah idiot, it's not that they're just agreeing with me and in fact Halada is a flipping moron, i tmust be me deletingall my alts rofl.
goes to show you the kind of geniuses we have on this forum
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Aiden Carlyle
Caldari STK Scientific
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Posted - 2006.12.02 22:02:00 -
[87]
Please, PLEASE, stfu cyno !
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Cynoslaver
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Posted - 2006.12.04 01:00:00 -
[88]
Please PLESAE suck it aiden
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Nanosoft
Minmatar ASTRAIA
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Posted - 2006.12.04 02:20:00 -
[89]
Amazing, and he keeps going...
an Arazu can scramble and sensor dampen a carrier so it cant lock the arazu.
and then the Curse can slowly drain the cap, carrier is dead.
Ofcourse this will take time, and the carrier might get help might not.
This can be done becouse the carrier cant lock, and fighters dont agress back, smaler drones does if they are idle at the time the arazu agress, but here the carrier has mining drones out.
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Cynoslaver
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Posted - 2006.12.04 06:31:00 -
[90]
Is this guy for real?
Please please raise your hand if you've EVER had this happen to you in a mining gang. My god...hell coudl freeze over too, and an asteroid come come shooting out of my arse and hit me while im mining to blow up my hulk.
These examples are borderline stupid, if this this and this and this occur, due to this and this and this, then you could be in trouble providing no one from your entire corp would come to help during this this and this OH and that's if yer not fitted properly to counter the 1 thing that might hurt you.
Golly...brilliant deduction watson.
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Ramblin Man
Empyreum
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Posted - 2006.12.04 06:53:00 -
[91]
The Grapevine: Replying to this thread gives anyone an INT modifier of -1 per post.
Suggest op create a new thread, different alt, if problem is still un-answered/addressed and real commentary is desired.
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Lazy8s
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Posted - 2006.12.04 22:34:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Cynoslaver Is this guy for real?
Please please raise your hand if you've EVER had this happen to you in a mining gang. My god...hell coudl freeze over too, and an asteroid come come shooting out of my arse and hit me while im mining to blow up my hulk.
These examples are borderline stupid, if this this and this and this occur, due to this and this and this, then you could be in trouble providing no one from your entire corp would come to help during this this and this OH and that's if yer not fitted properly to counter the 1 thing that might hurt you.
Golly...brilliant deduction watson.
/raises hand
Ask about the FTC (Free Trade Coalition) pilot that lost his carrier the DAY he bought it out being an ubarbadass!!!ON!111@@!11! out in 0.0 like an idiot. The BEST part was the guy hadn't even insured the damn thing cause he didn't have the isk! I was in FTC at the time and people flammed him so bad he quit the freaking alliance....hey...you're not his alt by any chance are you!?
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Cynoslaver
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Posted - 2006.12.05 01:42:00 -
[93]
grats on your INT modifier moron
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Trollin
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Posted - 2006.12.05 01:54:00 -
[94]
Originally by: MrRx7 let me get this right...you want to take a 25million isk mothership out mining......what kind of carebear are you?
hell even the carebears in my allaince wouldent go *that* far.
25 mil eh?
do tell where you get em for that much. --------------------------------------------------- A word to the wise ain't necessary, its the stupid ones that need the advice |
Vincent Almasy
Gallente The Underground
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Posted - 2006.12.05 02:09:00 -
[95]
Please post your carrier setup so all of this will stop and we can see. Also about the comment about a mining domi having no DPS, 5x mining drone II takes up 25m^3 and the basic 5x heavy II takes up 125m^5, this makes room for 200m^3 drone bay empty. You don't even need to start on the topic of a domi's tank, isk per isk a domi should have a better tank from having a billion or more just for a tank. One moment you said he didn't know what he was talking about then a day later say you have been using his guide for about a month if I remember correctly so That point is flawed. Did you also add in lets give it 60sec round trip per drone which about doubles the time and halves your profit. Another note, if your comparing ships, also compair learning time for each of the ships as a carrier take alot longer to learn so you would have to give the domi high skills in said mining and mining sub skills if you want to be fair. If not then have the domi time start mining once those skills are maxed befor a carrier or mother ship would start smining and see how much longer it would take. And to tell the truth, drones are more of a damger then fighters because fighters are easier targets, they only get one boost and are much easier to hit, isk for isk a domi will always win.
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Vincent Almasy
Gallente The Underground
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Posted - 2006.12.05 02:12:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Trollin
Originally by: MrRx7 let me get this right...you want to take a 25million isk mothership out mining......what kind of carebear are you?
hell even the carebears in my allaince wouldent go *that* far.
25 mil eh?
do tell where you get em for that much.
The original person said 50million is but didn't count in travel time and perfect travel time is 30sec each way or a minute. Each drone mining cycle is one minute so if you double the time you half the profit per hour; so the 50mil from 1min cycles turns into 25mil from 2min cycles
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DrLogan
New Age Solutions
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Posted - 2006.12.05 02:25:00 -
[97]
This thread wins.
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Sever Aldaria
Agony Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.12.06 06:38:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Kojiami Because one shot of the tank gets rid of the grass, while it takes a lawnmower half an hour.
Lmao! That made my night.
[green]Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further d |
Seleene
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.12.06 06:46:00 -
[99]
I never imagined that miners could get into arguments like this! -
Oz's Tourney Betting Pool |
Gaogan
Gallente Solar Storm Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.12.06 16:06:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Kojiami Morros at lv 5 gets +250% to mining drone yield. Aeon can unleash a myriad of said drones.
Wrong wrong wrong wrong
Wrong wrong wrong wrong
You're wrong
You're wrong
None of the capital ships get a bonus to mining drone yield. The Vexor explicitly states damage AND yield, and it gets it. The dominix only states damage, so it does not get the yield bonus. The Galente cap ships get a bonus to drone damage, NOT yield. The Amarr ones don't even get the damage bonus.
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Cynoslaver
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Posted - 2006.12.06 17:34:00 -
[101]
so much for the -int modifier everyone keeps going on and on :) But wow...either people can't read or I don' tknow what's going on. 25 mil isk mothership??? 60 second travel times what the heck are you guys talking about?
Obviously no one's mining in a mothership (though frankly If I had the skills and the ship I would give it a try the idea of 24 t2 drones mining and using a drone opt link and a laser opt link for rest of gang would be pretty cool)
carrier's cost over a bil
if the #'s what'shisname posted for 14 t2 drones mining in 1 hour = 50 mil as (perfect) god mode optimal, then approaching something quasi near that wouldn't be that difficult actually
the travel time for drones is obviously related to how close to the roids you are. If you are 10k from the roids then obviously yer hosing your #'s down compared to being 1k away, travel time is certainly not 30-60 seconds when yer close to a roid. ESP with drone movement skill. With the right skills and mods you get 4 units per drone so.
I'm not going to crunch #'s but if 50 mil is optimal and perfect then 40 mil should be achievable by someone intelligent enough. As absurd as a mothership might be and impractical (though in 6 months to a year who knows how common these will be) that's 24 drones mining and completely immune to electronic warfare
(thus rendering all these ever-so-improbable encounters people keep warning everyone of) moot. Frankly, if x people pop into your system and your corp/gang isn't prepared to either defend your mining crew or warp back to the station or heaven forbid, the carrier somehow gets stuck there, is everyone else in the gang picking their butt while the carrier dies a slow agonizing death?
So, in short, the whole argument about vulnerability will never hold water with me. If you're in a good corp in a safe 0.0 system these ludicrious scenarios of gank squads taking on your carrier while everyone else picks their noses and does nothing are just too silly to worry about.
The bottom line is isk, if you have 10 hulks mining in a gang, each sporting upwards of 1.5 bil in isk of equip and other things, and the concept of a 1.5 bil carrier tanking and protecting those guys is somehow 'too spendy' or too risky, you have to kind of roll your eyes. ESP cuz carrier will give those 10 hulks 29% more minerals as opposed to this dominix yer talking about. Yes, you can tank with a hulk, esp if you use passives with the right skills as mentioned, but that's annoying, risky, and can be disasterous and you'd still need a bc sitting around picking it's nose.
meh, anyway we've beat this into the ground. The only valid argument I can really acknowledge here is if you could tell me that a tanking BC is going to haul in more ISK than a carrier and provide more safety.
If not, then sorry don't see your point. Sure the BC is cheaper, as is the domi which can't provide bonuses, but if you have a problem making money when each hulk is taking in upwards of 100 mil an hour then you've got bigger problems to worry about.
My small gang can make 300 mil an hour without breaking a sweat, why would a 1.5 bil ship worry us?
Mothership...yeah, that would probably paint a big red target on our forehead, but people would have to come pretty prepared to take her down considering her immunities, not to mention it's not like yer going to sneak in a fleet deep into our space and get past our gate camp without us knowing.
ahh good times, man now yer getting me excited mothership here we come;)
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Janya Rykayn
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Posted - 2006.12.12 17:41:00 -
[102]
Edited by: Janya Rykayn on 12/12/2006 17:42:52 If I'd been in any doubt about this, Cyno removed it. His posts are poorly spelled, poorly reasoned and insulting.
There's something painfully ironic about calling someone else an "imbesile."
Cyno, when you can come out with something on the level of an academic paper, with math and statistics to back up your argument, you might have a ghost of a chance.
But make sure you run it through a spell checker first.
As it is, he's arguing you into oblivion without even doing anything.
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Salvis Tallan
Gallente Team Condor
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Posted - 2006.12.12 17:54:00 -
[103]
Lets not hash this all out again ------
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Janya Rykayn
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Posted - 2006.12.12 18:03:00 -
[104]
Fine, but first tell me what an imbesile is.
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Lars Intarestum
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Posted - 2006.12.12 21:32:00 -
[105]
Jesus H Chirrisst. Lemme see if I can pare this flame war down a bit...
So, Cyno is part of a thread that talks about mining in Cap ships. Halada comes in and says that mining in Cap Ships is silly. Cyno counters and you both start ****ing at 45 degree angles with strained faces and bursting blood vessels.
Let's go over the facts:
Is a Carrier good at supporting a mining gang? Well, DUH. It's going to be damn effective at supporting a mining gang. So would a Mothership.
Is a Carrier good at mining? Well, depends on what you call good. Is it cost effective? Hell no. Will it drag in some fair minerals? Yeah. Which is more important? Well, that's the question isn't it.
Can a Carrier be killed by a small group of skilled pirates? Yeah... Can a Carrier defeat a small group of skilled pirates? Yeah... Can a Bantam kill a Carrier? With the right skills. The question is "Will two equally talented and skilled groups of pilots blow each other up?" I'd put my money on the Carrier but I've seen worse things happen.
So, really, it comes down to this:
Do you personally feel that mining in a Carrier is overkill, wasteful and potentially dangerous or is a Carrier watching a group of miners a useful tool? Personally, I'd go with the latter but I can see the reasoning behind the former.
Are all of you enormous *****s for shoving the nearest stick so far up your ass that you can taste the chlorophyll? Yup!
But then again, wood tastes guuuud.
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Cynoslaver
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Posted - 2006.12.12 22:23:00 -
[106]
Good thread Lars.
They can babble and flame all they want, the bottom line is. Halada aka super ego came into this thread, hijacked it, and started insulting everyone talking about carrier mining because he thinks he' knows everythign about everthing.
The facts are simple:
Does a carrier tank better than an apoc/domi bla bla (against rats, or pirates or anything)?
Yes, obviously
Can a carrier defend a mining gang better than said apoc/domi bla bla bla?
Yes, obviously
Can a carrier still pull in significant cash with 14 t2 drones?
Yes, obviously
Can a carrier give a battle-cruiser-like boost to the _entire_ gang without having to have a bc hanging around taking up space?
Yes, obviously so it's filling 2 roles isntead of 1 like the apoc is (huge plus) This benefit can only be negated by a tanking battlecruiser (which is a bad idea imho)
Can a carrier handle 99% of the pirates that are 'wandering in looking for some free miner kills"?
Yes, obviously, and far more easily than any other battleship/tank setup you have out there protecting your hulks.
These are facts, they're indesputable. The only drive Halada can come up with are opinions.
His opinions are "carriers too expensive to use this way". Factual responsE: Carrier with approrpiate drones/fighters is only marginally more expensive than his own hulk setup. So you can have 9 hulks in your gang, but a tank/protector that costs the same ammount is "over the top"? Silly point. If 1 bil is a lot for your gang to muster (we make than in about 2 hours) then you have bigger problems.
His opinion is using a carrier draws too much attention
Again, tha'ts your opinion. It doesn't seem to draw any attention at all unless random pirates spawn in, die to it, tell all their buddies then come en-force with a carrier killing crew. By which time if you aren't prepared to get back ta a dock before this happens then you're retarded anyway.
Not to mention the fact that the carrier with 9 hulks certianly doesn't draw more attention than a 9 hulk gang with an apoc. It's the hulks the pirates are drooling over, not the tank. And for an op this big you'd be stupid not to have someone waiting at the next system giving advance warning.
Again, the only thing stated in this thread are opinons of why something isn't worth doing. Nowhere does anyone actually dispute the facts in the thread at all. Which is why I personally think Halada is such a joke. He's let his mining guide ego go to his head instead of formulating factual opinions.
Of course this is much like his original guide, in which he had everyone else do the number crunching for him and takes credit for it in the end.
so (zomg zomg) flame on, whine about my typos...I'm sure that lends credibility to you lol
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holla alt
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Posted - 2006.12.13 12:05:00 -
[107]
dont feed the trolls m'kay
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Recalesence
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Posted - 2006.12.13 23:24:00 -
[108]
Edited by: Recalesence on 13/12/2006 23:34:51 oh wow, *posting in epic flame war thread*
ignoring the two blow hards that are fighting over 2 view points that ARENT EVEN on opposite sides of the same spectrum. Im assuming ones defending his position on how a med barge mines better and the other a carrier defends better while mining..
@ the OP
For clarification, carriers can't fit mining lasers as Chribba has pointed out.
Also note, the Moros +50% hp/dps per level works for yield despite it not being noted.
Lets get some realistic figures to compair how the capitals rank in mining.
Lets start with skills, I'm going to assume you arent going to train carrier(rank14) to lvl5 for the +5 drone control.
Maybe lvl5 on adv.interfacing (rank8) for +5 drone control modules. So your carrier, about 13 maybe 14 drones..
Agianst a Moro's with 5 harvesters with a 200% yield bonus added too them (dreadnought rank 12?) lvl 4
Not to mention a Moros has the 3 turrets like a revelation (Chribbas velding flagship) One less low slot, but the drone bonus's...
So basicially the Moro's wins out of all dreads. The carrier w/ 13 maybe 14 or heck all 15 harvesters(sitting ontop of a roid) with no drone travel time still gets pwned by the Moro's...
As for the Titans and Motherships... Well I guess it comes down to 25harvys vs 8x mod strip/laser upgrades + 5 harvys..
Im a little flakey on the bonus math for the moro's, is 50% half of what the drone normally does added ontop of what it normally does? meaning 100% is double and 200% triple??
Im just going out on a limb here, but it's sounding like a gal dread lvl4-5 moros would outmine a 25 harvy mothership?
Still carrier mothership titan, have corp hangers. I use my corp hanger so people in the mining op dont have to jetcan.
Um so the setup for your OP, moros.. 5 harvester mining drones, 3x mdcm's and as much mining lasers upgrades you can get in the lows.
The aeon, lol its a mothership right? uh 5x Drone Controllers 1x Drone link Aug, a few drone navi comps.. But seriously.
I feel like a fool for posting this, as.. do you really have to ask us if you have a Aeon... But thus far my post is the most constructive :P
dont forget mining drone rigs, but to get rid of them you have to Repackage your mothership, which may prove to be a challenging feat. If you dont know what makes repackaging a mothership challenging, then you really really should not have one.
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Kuile
Supero Omnia Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.12.14 04:47:00 -
[109]
When the OP said burn away, I think he was mostly just talking about himself.
Cyan, people aren't going to be swayed by your arguments when you present them that way. When you flame Haladan like that (and may I say, I've never seen anyway flame as enthusiastically as you), you alienate a community that is very grateful to Haladan for all the information that he's compiled for our use. The fact that you're using disposable forum alts makes it much worse.
If you had posted more politely, people would actually consider your arguments. As it stands, they will do little more than scan your posts for mistakes and jump on them.
You have zero chance of persuading anyone this way, so unless you intend to change your methods, I don't understand why you even bother posting. If you just hate Haladan, make your own thread or use his instead of hijacking an innocent one.
Unless, of course, it's all just flamebait, in which case you're doing an excellent job. I don't think I could saturate a forum post with as much anger as you do if my life depended on it. If you're just having fun, then mountains of kudos for you!
(but if you think you might persuade someone or affect public opinion of Haladan, your optimism is at medically dangerous levels)
(not kidding. it hits the pancreas first and then it's slice yoink stitchy stitchy)
(mechanical pancreas ftl)
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Yoko Nakajima
Caldari Void Spiders Fate Weavers
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Posted - 2006.12.17 04:32:00 -
[110]
Wow.. I've read through all posts in this thread, curse me, and well, I'm in loss of words to be honest... Some people should really, and I mean really, go home and reconcider their values of life... This made me frightened and in truth, not alot of things can do that.
I mean come on... since when did 1's and 0's ever get so serious?
I know jack about mining, but for some reason Haladas mining guide was a bit more appealing than your.. arguments, Cyno. To be honest. I believe any outsider would think the same. It's a matter of how you both presented your facts that makes the diffrence in my humble opinion.
Even so The Majority of this forum seems to appretiate his guide, and for all what it's worth, there is only but a handful that critizise it, if at all? If he now is so wrong in his writing as you imply then, in all my world, sombody, somewhere, must have made some sort of investigation about it? To find the truth about those crunched numbers? The lack of critizism alone must carry some value in this matter, does it not? Or is everybody around here just too plain stupid to swallow his words?
Also, I must say I agree with Kuile. If you bring your arguments politly, people will listen, but if you go about calling everyone that does not agree with you for idoits, you will just make them laugh at you, shut their ears and turn away from you. Or even so, become hostile. And that indeed will make you look like the idiot, my friend. If people don't listen, words have no value.
This, is the matter in the otherworld, every single day. And you will be in deep trouble if you don't realize this sooner or later...
Also, I am a bit curious of when this thread will be locked-down as it's a fair bit oftopic as it is. Where's the forum mod's - Yes, this is my main. |
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Captain Crimson
Wisemen Foundation
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Posted - 2006.12.18 19:58:00 -
[111]
Edited by: Captain Crimson on 18/12/2006 20:00:28 Cyno, why are you typing so much on this issue? its also the same things over and over. Also, price for price, 2 hulks beat a carrier mining. 'What do you mean, where's the treasure? It's in this chest: ****ography and biscuits! Yarrr!'
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Apollo Balthar
Minmatar The Sausage Smuggling Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.12.19 12:58:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Halada Edited by: Halada on 01/12/2006 18:36:04 I didn't bother to read anything you wrote, I bet it's all about how a moron I am, and how I'm wrong and you are right about everything.
Am I close?
Oh and more alt posting ...
Earth Rock Rock-bottom Sheit You
Typical alliance *******. Don't you have some space to defend instead of derailing his thread ?
------------------------------------------------
WTS: tech2 clue |
Weihenstephan
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2006.12.19 13:12:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Apollo Balthar
Originally by: Halada Edited by: Halada on 01/12/2006 18:36:04 I didn't bother to read anything you wrote, I bet it's all about how a moron I am, and how I'm wrong and you are right about everything.
Am I close?
Oh and more alt posting ...
Earth Rock Rock-bottom Sheit You
Typical alliance *******. Don't you have some space to defend instead of derailing his thread ?
Meh, a bob lover.
His alliance has nothing to do with this thread nor the argument you nub, he said he's in medschool now and doesn't play anymore anyway. You're an ******* much more than he is !
You're such a ******* ****, all you contributed here is an insult while he's been giving the whole community priceless information and help for the past year.
We don't care about you, and this thread should get locked ASAP !!! We all established mining in a carrier isnt worth the rewards and that cyno has mental issues, and you come here and rescucitate this 4 pages later, did you even read the whole thread?
STFU troll
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Halada
Caldari STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.12.19 13:18:00 -
[114]
Omg would you all let this go, I've made my case and gave strong arguments, I assume you all have enought brains to make up your own goddamn mind about mining in a carrier with the facts that were presented to you.
Sausage boy, my alliance had nothing to do with this argument, you come here calling me an *******. I'd like to know what you ever did to help EVE please?
The best mining guide in the galaxy |
Karmic
Caldari Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.12.19 13:28:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Seleene I never imagined that miners could get into arguments like this!
OMG Seleene in a thread about mining using motherships and carriers I take it the BDCI mining fleet will be out in F4R tonight in there MS's and carriers ? Have you thought to ask Ens if he wants in ? - - - - - - - - -
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Halada
Caldari STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.12.19 13:37:00 -
[116]
The best mining guide in the galaxy |
Ranura Eynara
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.12.19 13:51:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Halada Edited by: Halada on 19/12/2006 13:49:59 Why, the lame alt-posting and smacktalk ... can't really go lower!
I've been enjoying empire already for the past months, since I'm learning to become a doctor while you smacktalk here Won't make much of a difference
Alt?
This is my main, just left my corp, check history if you are REALLY that bothered :)
As he said, enjoy Empire!
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Halada
Caldari STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.12.19 13:54:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Kaiu
Sorry but your out of date anti-carrier for mining nonsense is getting beyond boring..
Yes you are so 'cool' and you helped out the community amazingly well with your guide... we all really appreciated it !
Anyway... back on topic.
The math shows just how awesome all those T2/harvy drones and gang bonuses really are.
TBH the amount of roaming gangs who run when they see a carrier on scanner compared to other tanks for mining ops is great :)
Harvesters suck ok, I've shown why already and is is explained in details, plus I've showned a little retriever will do better than a carrier to mine, so your carrier if sitting in belt should have fighters out assigned to its Hulks keeping guard.
If a roaming gang scouts finds a carrier mining, he'll just bring the gang in, jam your carrier and take out the miners while you are recalling your t2 mining drones and you cannot do a damn thing because you are jammed.
Overconfidence in your toy will cost you, I know what I am talking about.
Please apologize me being boring, I need to train entertainement to 4 next week.
The best mining guide in the galaxy |
Halada
Caldari STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.12.19 13:55:00 -
[119]
0.0 is overrated , empire is a lot of fun :D
The best mining guide in the galaxy |
Kaiu
Aliastra
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Posted - 2006.12.19 13:59:00 -
[120]
Sounds to me like someone is bitter :)
Lost a carrier?
Watched a few friends lose thiers? :S
If you seriously believe that to a mining op as a whole, a retriever would be more beneficial than a Carrier you have issues and should seek help :D
If a tank is in place, use a retreiver... why not replace the tank with the carrier, add the sick gang mining bonuses, the defensive capabilities and STILL keep the retreiver?
I really dont see what you are getting at aside for some fear of carriers :)
Get your pilots to decent lvls of both SP and skill before they fly them and perhaps you wont have these nightmares ____________________ MOGarmy
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Halada
Caldari STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.12.19 14:11:00 -
[121]
Edited by: Halada on 19/12/2006 14:12:52 I am against using a carrier as a mining paltform, never was against it tanking a belt, in fact if you read the guide its written, black on white.
Clearly you haven't read nor the guide or thread and just felt like coming here and smack the **** out of everyone... well done
The best mining guide in the galaxy |
Darth Bob
Dark Excession
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Posted - 2006.12.20 02:49:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Halada
A carrier's tank will die vs one curse, a frig to tackle and 1-2 BS. NOTHING is that good. Besides, the Hulk is so much more effective and less expansive to lose.
just because you wrote some noob guide doesn't mean you're right...
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Kor Kumurah
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Posted - 2006.12.20 11:56:00 -
[123]
Im surprised none of you are banned by now. Y'all should watch your tongues in here.
I think the miner's guide is awesome, but the fact that you actually included a link to this topic with some "roflwtfpwned" comment in the guide........well.......lets just say that I doubt you are over 10 years old yourself.
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Sir Howard
Gallente Four Rings Myriad Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.20 17:05:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Kojiami It increases overall efficiency to drones, 50% per level. The yield is not added, but has been proven it affects yield too.
...ok I stopped reading this thread when it went severely off topic...oh 5 pages ago.
However, in regards to this quote, is this correct? And do drone boats that add a bonus to drones add a bonus to miner drones even though it doesnt say so?
"This is a bad idea wrapped in a horrible plan and shipped in a retarded box" |
Cynoslaver
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Posted - 2006.12.20 18:07:00 -
[125]
Ok....I'll try not to flame and just state some facts. As far as I can tell these facts aren't disputable they're sipmly facts.
1: Halada has never piloted a carrier. He doesn't really have any concept of a carrier's capabilities other than what he's been told. This was made blatently obvious by his comments on the combat abilities of said carriers.
2: Halada hijacked this thread. I did not hijack it. I was discussing with other like-minded individuals about carriers and dreadnaught mining.
3: I am posting on the same character I have posted on since this thread began, long before Halada ever joined this thread. To imply I'm 'hiding behind an alt' is just a pathetic way of trying to derail the actual debate by immature people who didn't bother to read the whole thread anyway.
4: Halada's section on 'carriers' which he has flamed other individuals in this thread as 'not having read his guide' didn't even exist when this thread was created. In fact he only added the carrier section AFTER this big argument started, and then he has the gall to flame some guy about not reading his carrier portion of his mining guide? Sorry Halada, like everythign else in your guide, you add it after someone brings it up or corrects you.
5: Halada still doesn't get the point of using a carrier, and who cares, I don't need to convince him. Other people have already said it for me. It doesn't MATTER what 'outmines' the carrier, because that isn't the point. He says it's not viable as a mining platform. On the contrary, it is the ULTIMATE mining platform for the roles you want it to fullfil.
Roles - It's the best equipped battle-cruiser-like ship you can have in the belt that can use the gang mods to boost your entire fleet of mining hulks with laser and drone optimization.
It's the best equipped ship to TANK that can also fill the ABOVE role (not to mention a stronger tank than any bs anyway)
It's the best equipped ship to deal with the normal miner gankers which constitutde 99.9% of the pirates you're going to see deep in your secure corp space while mining (random pirates coming in for some cheep kills in their hacs inties and what not)
In addition to filling all of these roles (the best) it CAN bring in some minerals. The whole argument of 'bla bla bla mines better" is moot. Show me a battlecruiser that is going to pull in more minerals anyway? IE, 1 account is filling ALL of these roles. Tank, protector, miner, gang augmenter, all in 1 ship.
The only argument halada has every made against a carrier is that it 'attracts attention'? If you have problems with that then don't use the ship. Personally it's a pretty weak argument if you ask me.
All you hear in this thread is how much Halada has contributed. You can flame and moan about 'how I have stated my opinions' all you want, but the facts speak for themselves.
The carrier IS the best mining platform to fill these roles. The hulks are the anvils, and the carrier is the hammer. Halada is wrong, regardless of your hero worship.
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Halada
Caldari STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.12.20 20:40:00 -
[126]
Originally, it was funny because Cyno made an ignorant statement that I didn't know **** about mining and I proved him wrong in two lines. I did not hijack the thread, I merely acted as a forum w***e who says what he thinks, like so many out there do. Then Cyno insulted me and I backed my opinion with facts and maths. I can be an arrogant son of a ***** when I'm pushed to my limits, I believe if you would meet me in real life you'd think I am a decent and nice guy.
This is just a frickin' game, which brought me great deals of fun and entertainment for the past year. I am now in medschool and studying to become a doctor, but before I left I wanted to give the community what many before give me. It took me an entire week-end to finish this guide, I did it out of the goodness of my heart without getting anything in return. I've been a carebear for almost all my time in EVE. Now am I suppose to sit here and read some random person insulting me and calling my guide a noob piece of work ? Does it make you a cool person to post thankless **** like this ?
One year ago this was a much different game, now all the smacktalk disgusts me. I had the chance to speak with a long-time buddy in BoB while he was in my home system locking it down. We had a genuinely interesting and nice conversation. There was no smack or insults, even if we are officially mortal ennemies. This is a rare occasion now, and you can't read 5 threads without reading some smacktalk. I am even more disgusted that I got dragged into it myself. At the next version of my guide, any remarks about this post will be removed and the guide will remain neutral.
I say this game was different because then we would never have seen someone insult another in an argument over a particular debate. The fact he brought my ASCN citizenship in this argument disgusted me as well. What did it have to do with anything ? Am I suppose to post using an alt to hide my allegiances, does that make me cooler ? Do I get more credibility from hiding my true self ?
Yes I own a carrier, I know how they work, and I know first hand how they are not invincible. I have seen people lose and destroy carriers easily. I was never against using a carrier tanking a belt as a support ship to a mining op, I voiced my opinion that having a carrier out mining is not safe. A carrier is first and foremost a support ship. It should have its 14 fighters out in the belt, assigned to its Hulks, so that the Hulk can lock the intruders and destroy them. I begun to ask myself if yourself have ever flown a carrier ? You should know if you did the locking time on cruisers and frigates (be it T1 or T2), which are the most commonly used ships for roaming gans, is astronomic. 40 seconds , more ? I did tests with corpmates, a cruiser will have 4 times more time than you to lock you and manage to jam you. In which case you are useless... you cannot remote repair your miners, nor send fighters against the intruders. They might not kill you before reinforcements arrive, but they might too. And your miners will still be dead.
So why using a carrier to mine, which yields about as much as a retriever, and let it be useless during a crisis, rather than using it for what it is actually for, which is supporting the mining op, with its fighters out and ready to fight, and his miners already locked in to repair them while they warp out, provided you aren't jammed ? Are you going to tell me what I wrote makes no sense, that I am stupid, or an idiot because I know nothing about carrier? An actual 1bil worth ship (not inflated like the Hulk) wasn't meant to mine, it's my opinion. Do as you like.
This is the last you will hear from me in this thread. I can stand behind my mistakes, but I am very tired of having to hear the senseless smacktalk which isn't even founded or justified with true or verifiable facts.
Good luck with your carrier mining, I hope you won't come crying here if you lose it, because I'll be waiting !
The best mining guide in the galaxy |
Cynoslaver
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Posted - 2006.12.21 17:40:00 -
[127]
I'm sorry Halada, but you are a hypocrit. You might be a nice guy in real life but you've completely blinded yourself to how this whole ****ing contest started in the first place.
I had posted about 4 comments back and forth with this guy, comparing facts and data about what we were doing. Nowhere did we ask for your opionoin that what we were doing was smart or stupid, you took it upon yourself to jump in and bash first. *** HALADA I gotta say ... I feel all funny inside. That's a funny idea you had there ! *** This is the first thing you said in this thread. You contributed nothing to the topic at hand, contributed nothing to the argument at all you just were mocking us and telling us what a stupid idea we had. You were being a jerk because you think you knew all there was to know about mining.
My response was ***Cynoslaver What's a funny idea, using dreads and carriers for miner tanks? Just because you may be poor, or lacking vision don't take it out on us :) *** So I responded with a smart ass comment, because I thought you were being a *****. (and you were)
And your self inflated ego came back with a "I know mining"
and my response was...obviously not
So what did you do then? You posted this thread on your new guide claiming to the world how you 'wtfowned' some bobbit alt (my personal fav part, assuming im some bobbit alt cuz I questioned your knowledge.
***I love the fact that when I bring YOUR alliance into it, it's a big no no and totally unfair to you, but when you try to assume you have any clue who/what I am, well that's justified*** AKA ----> HYPOCRIT
I'm not going to apologize to you, you acted like a complete asshat on this thread. You even bragged about it to your friends, and you tried to use the fact that you have some mining guide (that you had help from the entire mining community to construct , including myself) as how right you were and how wrong anyoen else was, and it was 10 year old crap and you know it.
If you had come here and debated it like a man, you would have gotten a mature adult response. But you didn't, you wanted to mock someone to make yourself feel better. ************************ In response to your actual points where you actually made some comments about the topic at hand, being the carrier's vulnerability my retort would be the following:
Can a carrier be a jammed? Of course, so can any other ship (except motherships I believe?...lil more absurd there, so I wont go there I doubt we'll ever have a spare mship to mine in)
1: if yer in a large op, and you don't have advance warning of a group of people heading to your system large enough to take out your mining op and your carrier, then you're not running the op correctly. The only danger my buds and I face when mining is the random stealthers, quick people who fly in and try to scan the belts and pick off someone in small groups of 4-5 miners thinking "well they'll have a tank and possibly some hulks/covetors mining" and they can gank loot and run.
2: If I was that worried, I'd have fighters assigned to the hulks. Again assuming we wouldn't be warping to station at the first sign of a 4-5 hostile group that would pose an actual threat. If you were that worried all the miners could have their t2 combat drones ready to pop any jammer on the carrier.
3: It takes a lot more than 1-2 random pirates to pose a threat to a carrier-protected mining op than it does to a BC tanking mining op. It's just a fact. Your whole argument is based upon the premise that I can not afford to lose a 1 bil ship if the 'worst case scenario' happens. But ask yourself this halada.
If you got a crew coming in to gank your mining op with x highly skilled pilots and they manage to get the drop on you like you describe, you're all dead anyway, regardless. Losing the carrier is the least of your problem cuz you just lost x pimped out hulks anyway. Carrier DOES give you best protection, bar none.
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Traderin
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Posted - 2006.12.21 20:00:00 -
[128]
I don't think he expected an apology , seeing as you can't even be bothered to post using your main and even after all that fineness and self control, you don't seem to have the guts to show your true self.
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Cynoslaver
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Posted - 2006.12.22 18:06:00 -
[129]
Says the idiot posting on an alt - This same old moronic argument again?
Thanks for showing that there truely is no end to the lack of intelligence on this forum. You have no idea how many sleepless nights I'm going to have because I am not showing my corp flag in this thread just so morons like you can feel better about your own pathetic arguments.
I'm going to be tossing and turning knowing I didn't take time out of my life to change my forum information which has remained consistant throughout this entire f'ing thread long before ****s like yourself or Halada got involved in it, just to make your e-peen feel bigger and compensate for your lack of irl self confidence.
woe is me
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Traderin
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Posted - 2006.12.22 18:28:00 -
[130]
That's right cyno, you keep insulting everyone and have a nice day !
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Serpreme
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Posted - 2006.12.22 18:40:00 -
[131]
holy sheyit you people need to get over yourselves.
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Lady Kinla
Dark Empire Fleet
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Posted - 2007.01.02 00:52:00 -
[132]
I have never seen so much flaming in one place before. I am seriously surprised you haven't already got a warning. As for cyno: You have serious problems letting go. The one thing that I think Halada made a very good decision about is to forget about this thread something that was much better than anything you have said so far. --------------------------- Aimez- "oh ****, this is empire......."
Thanks for the loot, and next time you go out to pirate, carry more tech 2 plz =) |
MsVanessa
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Posted - 2007.01.02 07:06:00 -
[133]
Edited by: MsVanessa on 02/01/2007 07:07:06 <tongue in cheek> And bear in mind, these are MINERS flaming.
Imagine what it would be like if real combat type people were flaming, we'd all be roasted alive then ! <-tongue in cheek>
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Casmy Blue
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Posted - 2007.01.02 12:56:00 -
[134]
As a now-experienced miner who's learned a lot from Hal's way of doing things, I've still got to say that above everything, the argument that survivability means not drawing attention to yourself is an excellent one.
It's true that actually mining in a capital ship is a viable way of raking in some decent income. I don't think anyone's arguing that - they're arguing that there's just no particular reason to do it over other ships with comparable capabilities.
The faction-fitted hulk is going to be less valuable than the carrier in the end by a few hundred million, and in addition, seeing a Hulk mining in 0.0 does not drive the lemmings into a killing frenzy. If there's a capital ship alone in a belt, it generates enough attention where people are going to come after the thing.
If it were a mothership, where it's pretty much invulnerable unless bubbled because it's immune to EWAR, cool, the thing's not going to go down because some people thought it would be nifty to gank it. If it's a carrier, all it takes is one person with some corpmates and support to know where you are, and that thing is gone.
Oh, and I have to say it - post with your main. Part of the reason the alt in this thread is being flamed so much, aside from his original screwup about Hal's mining sensibilities, is that it's an alt. It takes a lot of power away from you're saying if you're saying it behind a screen. |
Pilk
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.01.03 18:40:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Casmy Blue he faction-fitted hulk is going to be less valuable than the carrier in the end by a few hundred million
A Hulk costs in the neighborhood of 500 mil in 0.0, a Gistii a-type SSB is 110 mil, t2 strips are, what, 12 mil apiece? That works out to something like 650 mil, fully-fitted, for a Hulk. You get less than 25m insurance isk when it pops, leading to a 625m loss.
A carrier is about a billion, and you get around 500m from the insurance payout after subtracting the cost of the insurance. You can fit a carrier with t1 mods and still tank even the nastiest 0.0 spawn. Total loss: 500m.
End result: if you plan on losing your ship, it's cheaper to lose a carrier than a Hulk. And obviously, it's a hell of a lot easier to lose a Hulk than a carrier, and the carrier's way more versatile in combat ops, to say the least. :)
Originally by: Casmy Blue and in addition, seeing a Hulk mining in 0.0 does not drive the lemmings into a killing frenzy.
Yes it does. In fact, more so. You need a certain baseline amount of damage to kill even an incompetently-equipped carrier, whereas all you need is an inty to break the tank of a Hulk that's tanking a decent spawn. As such, I'm far more excited about "Hulk on scanner" than "Carrier on scanner, mining drones on scanner".
--P
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Kirika Misono
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Posted - 2007.01.04 01:42:00 -
[136]
Edited by: Kirika Misono on 04/01/2007 01:46:40 HI, I'm Ms Obvious, and I'd like to make a comment: I've been reading this lame flame war for a while, and would like to point out that both sides are wrong to a degree.
One, A carrier is not a good mining platform for low sec/0.0. Two, the Mothership is the greatest ninja mining gizmo ever. Sneaking around in one and using jump clones to get miners/haulers past pirates in low sec pwns. And while it's not able to deal with a large fleet (and I'm talking a BoB/D2D/your big alliance here fleet), most roving bands of pirates in low sec are not what I would call large fleets. It is immune to EW. It can have a LOT of drones. It can hold a lot of ore. It can go to your POS someplace in a .4 boardering high sec and offload the goods, to be moved by more conventional haulers.
I felt this was worth mentioning. Since, you know, not everyone who has one is at war, all the time. And if you own one, you're probably in it... at least most of the time.
Edit: The reason that a carrier is not a good 0.0 mining platform is that it's more profitable to rat with one. If you MUST mine with it, it's at best an average miner. If you have one in high sec, however, it's a belt eater.
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Kirika Misono
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Posted - 2007.01.04 01:47:00 -
[137]
The reason that a carrier is not a good 0.0 mining platform is that it's more profitable to rat with one. If you MUST mine with it, it's at best an average miner. If you have one in high sec, however, it's a belt eater.
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Col Callahan
Caldari DAB RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.04 07:52:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Mister Alt Even if it did, why would you want to mine in a Dread? it would be like Cutting your grass in a tank.
Mining in a Dread is cutting the grass in a tank, its just stupid fun
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Pilk
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.01.05 08:10:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Kirika Misono The reason that a carrier is not a good 0.0 mining platform is that it's more profitable to rat with one. If you MUST mine with it, it's at best an average miner. If you have one in high sec, however, it's a belt eater.
You make over 73,526,073.60 isk/hr. ratting?
Tell me where you rat!
--P
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Viliny
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Posted - 2007.01.09 14:03:00 -
[140]
Edited by: Viliny on 09/01/2007 14:02:40 This is my main Thanks for the guide Hal, it's usefull. And Cyno, your text is hard to read because your making it so obvious you want to strangle hal to death while typing it :P
ALSO: i think adding the link to this thread in your guide was a bit lacking in taste
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Zeonick
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Posted - 2007.01.15 09:03:00 -
[141]
Edited by: Zeonick on 15/01/2007 09:01:05 Woo! Time to flog the dead horse!
I've been playing EVE for a better part of two years, and I'm almost entirely PvP-specced. I didn't know jack about mining until Halada's guide, which in my point of view, was extremely helpful.
Personally, I'm not entirely sure why Cyno insists on trying to prove a pathetic point. Congrats buddy, you CAN mine in a Carrier! All your abhorrent blather about mining in a carrier (while stroking your e-peen until it's permanently limp) is all peaches and cream until IT GETS BLOWN UP. Then you realize that you blew a fortune on something that could have been done for a microscopic fraction of the cost.
I hope you don't have a job that requires any logical reasoning or a smidgen of mathematical intellelect, because if you do, chances are your company is making far less than it should be. I sincerely hope you're just bagging my groceries, but please, don't try and count the bananas.
Don't be stupid. Don't mine in a carrier unless you have no other option.
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Issaqua
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Posted - 2007.01.21 11:32:00 -
[142]
This thread is funny.
Ok the original point was: "I'm rich, is a carrier better than BC for mining gangs?"
Answer: yes.
Halada responded by saying "No, Hulks still mine more than carriers do"
Correct, but irrelevant to the question.
Then the original point was repeated and Halada's corpmates responded with "lol nub"
Childish.
Halada then goes on to try & back up his argument with various points, not all of which are really true (I mean yeah it's possible to lose a carrier to a couple BS etc but you would actually have to be stupid, or they'd have to know you were there before they left & fit specifically).
Cyno has made several very good points about total isk loss (including insurance carrier is about the same, I won't say better cause who would fit a carrier with t1 modules really), and tankability compared to BC, and Halada has responded with... very little actually.
Oh and just to throw it in there, maybe if your alliance could hold some space you'd have enough cash to go out mining in big gangs of hulks with a carrier covering, don't get jealous of people cause they have bigger toys. 'Empire is more fun' that says it all really.
Disclaimer: this is not an alt, and yes everyone knows that ASCN got pwned I have no affiliation with BoB whatsoever.
Oh and just to reiterate (flame retardant) Carriers are better than command ships at assisting mining gangs.
Carriers ARE much much harder than any BS or BC
It would take some serious firepower to take one down
You lose less isk from a carrier's death than you do a Hulk with halada's setup
Yes it may seem overkill to all you nubs without bils to chuck about, but Cyno has clearly and this is very important -actually ******* done it-
In conclusion, your mining guide is very nice Halada, and has been my bible for the last few days (just borrowed myself a mining account to play with) but you just got wtfpwned.
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Shuanyi
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2007.01.21 15:35:00 -
[143]
You think we care about that little summary of yours?
This thread should have been kept dead... so stfu
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Miri Tirzan
Caldari Clan Korval
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Posted - 2007.01.22 00:39:00 -
[144]
Edited by: Miri Tirzan on 22/01/2007 00:38:24 Well, this has been an entertaining read.
Having never read Hal's guide, and never intending to, I do have to wonder why everyone is getting on Cyno's case. So Cyno is posting with an alt, big deal, Cyno started the discussion using that character and I hardly see any reason to change which character is making the post in the middle of the thread. A pretty good discussion was going on, and I did find it interesting, and Hal shows up and starts flaming and trolling. (Then I started rolling on the floor watching the spectacle.) Not using a carrier/mothership/titan for mining brings back fond memories of why it was evil to use an Apoc for mining ęcause it was a battleship.
It is pretty easy to see that Hal was wrong, that posting a nub guide, while praise worthy, does not make him the best or most innovative player in the field currently playing. If you can afford to use a carrier/dread over a BC/Dom for mining, tanking, and acting as a mobile storage container, then why not. It tanks better, it gives better gang boosts, and it holds a huge amount of ore. The question was which carrier/dread would be the best for this role.
Hal started in flaming. When he got called on being a troll and just flaming, he whipped out a link to his guide. I fail to see the connection there but I guess if you cannot come up with a good argument, use misdirection. Hal then gets into how any mining barge would be a better pure miner than any capital. Many times it is pointed out to him that that is not the discussion. It still is not the discussion.
I donĘt see any reason for all the sycophants to jump in and flame Cyno, but I guess that is what makes them sycophants.
Personally, I think that if you have a spare Archon, it would make an excellent miner/tanker/guard/and storage facility for a mining op. Make it dedicated for leading mining ops and mount the mining rigs on it.
For those that think the ship is too expensive for the role, for you it is.
svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
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