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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 22 post(s) |
Wylde Kardde
Wrekker Mix
15
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Posted - 2015.06.08 13:58:48 -
[121] - Quote
Navy skins for all corresponding racial ships via navy corp LP
Also Minmatar Fleet ship camo should be a darker olive green version of the Brutor/Boundless camo along lines of the Freki & Mimir special edition ships. RF camo currently looks cheap and boring.
The Origional Intention of Pirate BS's... pvp
Nightmare X-type Burn out
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyajGLoe0Kc
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CCP Terminus
C C P C C P Alliance
247
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Posted - 2015.06.08 16:08:43 -
[122] - Quote
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:The one thing that ccp refuses to talk about even though CCP thomas the monetization director attended their meeting one month ago according to CCP falcon....
MONEY AND PRICES
Ccp tell us about this It's an ongoing process that's still happening. CCP Thomas sits right behind me, we talk fairly often, and try to keep each other up to date. If we feel the data supports a shift in our pricing scheme, we will modify our pricing scheme and let players know.
@CCP_Terminus // Game Designer // Team Size Matters
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CCP Terminus
C C P C C P Alliance
247
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Posted - 2015.06.08 16:11:04 -
[123] - Quote
Rowells wrote:Maybe this has been answered, but is it possible to have pack of existing skins sold together at a discounted rate? Particularly similar ones across different ships, classes, etc. Bundles are possible both in the NES and on the item itself. We'll be expanding and experimenting with the bundle range in the future.
@CCP_Terminus // Game Designer // Team Size Matters
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Dersen Lowery
Drinking in Station
1622
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Posted - 2015.06.08 17:02:42 -
[124] - Quote
There's nothing intrinsically irrational about different corps charging different prices. There are legions of examples of e.g., car colors being tiered. More desirable finishes command higher prices. Exclusivity is desirable for some brands, which is why you see $15,000 phones that are just $500 phones encrusted in bling.
This guy has a point, however:
Petrified wrote: Yes, please put the SKINs pricing through tiericide. Right now the pricing structure is very, very inconsistent. Example: Aeon Khanid Skin: 4,300 AUR Aeon Sarum Skin: 6,500 AUR
Which would seem to imply that Sarum skins are more valuable/pricey But then we see: Oracle Khanid Skin: 4,300 AUR Oracle Sarum Skin: 2,830 AUR 1, Then we also have the fact the the pricing seems to be unrelated to the ship hull size as well: Avatar Khanid Skin: 6,500 AUR Aeon Khanid Skin: 4,300 AUR Apocalypse Khanid Skin: 4,300 AUR Oracle Khanid Skin: 4,300 AUR Harbringer Khanid Skin: 2,830 AUR Augoror Khanid Skin: 2,830 AUR Dragoon Khanid Skin: 2,390 AUR Inquisitor Khanid Skin: 1,540 AUR
It seems like pricing was randomly chosen without respect to similar hulls or similar skins relative value to each other. The word "maddening" comes to mind.
Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.
I voted in CSM X!
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Gemini Tordanis
No.Mercy Triumvirate.
9
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Posted - 2015.06.08 18:37:32 -
[125] - Quote
Aphoxema G wrote:Gemini Tordanis wrote:Ease up on your critical tone, these folks are people too. If you do not like the product, then simply stop using it. I'm not trying to be terrible about it, I have strong opinions about this because I've been affected by it for years and I just kept my mouth shut and kept playing the game. CCP has made a lot of mistakes, and as an entity it needs to continually listen to the community, even the bittervet rabble. They can't give please everyone and it's okay if they don't end up giving me what I want, but what I want is for CCP to sit down and really reconsider how they're doing microtransactions and cosmetic items in general. Cosmetic items are about fun, you're just having fun with things, and microtransactions is the currency by which you perpetually buy the fun to consume. The bug that made ship skins applicable to all ships was so, so fun, because it was closer to what ship customization should be. Just let us set colors and things on our own ships, let our own dreams come alive. T'amber had the most amazing mock-ups and while they were shooting a little high it's all still an amazing idea in a more conservative form. Not that the skins CCP are offering now aren't amazing, they absolutely are, but maybe we all have better ideas of what looks amazing on our demigod's chariot.
Totally agree with you. The prices of microtransactions seems to be the offspring of a blindfold and dartboard. What Petrified wrote was exactly how many of us feel. I think they will eventually allow folks to set their own colors but they want to temper the rollout and make certain there are no server-side issues when massive numbers of people generate unique wrappers for their ships.
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SFM Hobb3s
Wrecking Shots Black Legion.
301
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Posted - 2015.06.08 18:50:19 -
[126] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Airi Cho wrote:1. police skin for everything! 2. and until then ... am I the only one who would love to see a whole fleet of police kronos patrolling space? I wanna see a Comet fly up to a fight. Tell everyone to stop shooting. When they don't he turns on his police SKIN. Lights a cyno. In comes a police capital fleet. Nyx, Erebus, Thanatos, Moros. All of it. >.<
Only if there's a recording of the comms where the comet pilot calmly calls in for backup for a domestic disturbance before lighting said cyno. |
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
259
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Posted - 2015.06.08 22:30:50 -
[127] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:There's nothing intrinsically irrational about different corps charging different prices. There are legions of examples of e.g., car colors being tiered. More desirable finishes command higher prices. Exclusivity is desirable for some brands, which is why you see $15,000 phones that are just $500 phones encrusted in bling.
This guy has a point, however: ...
Removed my own quote as it would make the post overly long: That is exactly my point.
If they were premium items however, I would totally understand higher prices. |
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
31702
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Posted - 2015.06.08 22:48:06 -
[128] - Quote
I'm thinking it's directly proportional to the number of characters that have the ship trained.
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
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Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
259
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Posted - 2015.06.08 22:50:51 -
[129] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:I'm thinking it's directly proportional to the number of characters that have the ship trained.
Does not make sense at all with regards to what we are actually seeing.
Quote:Example: Aeon Khanid Skin: 4,300 AUR Aeon Sarum Skin: 6,500 AUR
Which would seem to imply that Sarum skins are more valuable/pricey But then we see: Oracle Khanid Skin: 4,300 AUR Oracle Sarum Skin: 2,830 AUR
Additionally, if you use that reasoning, then Frigate SKINs should cost more than Titan SKINs. |
Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
182
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Posted - 2015.06.08 22:53:21 -
[130] - Quote
Aphoxema G wrote:The excuses for not making skins universal are underwheleming.
For the so-called quality assurance, if the skin looks bad on a ship then people just won't use it. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and many may even find the black default texture desirable. After all, the person who will be seeing the skin they apply the most is the person who applied it.
For the T1 ships looking like T2 ships.. So? So what does that even matter? People don't get T2 ships because they look different, they get them because they perform different. Skins are skins. Just because an asset designer decided that that's how a T2 variant should look shouldn't impact the opinions of what players want T1 ships to look like.
I'm so fed up with it, I enjoy EVE but the years of corruption and incompetence and general not getting it has left me ambivalent at best. I like the qib about QA... because just think how awesome the rest of the game could be if they actually applied the same high level of QA to every part of the game they change? But no, they don't even barely consider QA in comparison... can't have some random black pixels on the ships, that would break everything. Oh wait, everything else is already 1000x more broken.
If you are putting "so much effort" into the art, and can't apply those manhours to actually fixing problems with the core game itself, I know it sounds silly, but maybe you should re-appropriate those funds to core game development. A pretty game that is broken is still a broken game.
CCP Terminus wrote:The SKIN system you propose would be a tremendous amount of QA for each SKIN released. There is nothing stopping us in the future, once SKIN lines are more fleshed out, from selling a single SKIN that applies to multiple ships. Corp-wide SKINs will probably work slightly differently when it comes to the corp purchasing and activating a SKIN. The implementation on the user end would be the same as the current system. While you;re in the corp you have access to the active corp SKIN in your fitting window, or some variation of that. So if you haven't finished figuring out where you want to go with SKINs and are apparently still 'feeling out' the demand for it... why develop a new system that was completely opposite of anything that we had suggested in the many threads of feedback? You guys asked for our feedback, and then turned around and ignored all of it and released something nobody had asked for. (If you don't know what I'm talking about, read the entirety of the last several CCP started SKIN and/or ship color customization threads)
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
31702
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Posted - 2015.06.08 22:58:01 -
[131] - Quote
Petrified wrote:Rain6637 wrote:I'm thinking it's directly proportional to the number of characters that have the ship trained. Does not make sense at all with regards to what we are actually seeing. Quote:Example: Aeon Khanid Skin: 4,300 AUR Aeon Sarum Skin: 6,500 AUR
Which would seem to imply that Sarum skins are more valuable/pricey But then we see: Oracle Khanid Skin: 4,300 AUR Oracle Sarum Skin: 2,830 AUR Additionally, if you use that reasoning, then Frigate SKINs should cost more than Titan SKINs. Beats me. lol. I just remembered I stopped questioning this. I'm into clothes. I just speculate with SKINs.
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
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Destoya
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
419
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Posted - 2015.06.08 23:37:43 -
[132] - Quote
CCP Terminus wrote: It's an ongoing process that's still happening. CCP Thomas sits right behind me, we talk fairly often, and try to keep each other up to date. If we feel the data supports a shift in our pricing scheme, we will modify our pricing scheme and let players know.
Because I was interested, here are the Jita market volumes of the skins released since the new system starting with the letter A (as well as erebus):
Quote:Aeon Khanid - 49 Aeon Sarum - 35 Algos Intaki Syndicate - 6 Algos Interbus - 2 Apoc Ardipashur - 3 Apoc Kador - 2 Apoc Khanid - 20 Apoc Tash-Murkon - 6 Arbitrator Ardipashur - 2 Arbitrator Kador - 3 Archon Kador - 96 Archon Tash-Murkon - 63 Armageddon Kador - 14 Armageddon Tash-Murkon - 32 Atron Intaki Syndicate - 50 Atron Interbus - 21 Augoror Ardipashur - 0 Augoror Khanid - 8 Avatar Kador - 23 Avatar Khanid - 29 Erebus Duvolle - 14 Erebus Interbus - 23 Here's the ones that existed before the patch and got converted:
Quote:Abaddon Kador - 1109 Abaddon Tash-Murkon - 909 Now I know this isnt wholly representative of the actual use statistics since no doubt a good portion of people converted plexes or bought aurum directly but I do believe it is indicative of the general trend of skin usage. The market prices on all of these follow the aurum to plex conversion pretty closely, so the market should be a viable option for players who dont wish to spend real money on microtransactions (if they can be called micro) or don't have a round amount of aurum in their accounts and want to buy the items as efficiently as possible. I didn't look at Amarr/Dodixie/Rens but since you can apply skins remotely Jita should have the majority of market volume.
Theres a few things that stand out to me:
- People are far more likely to buy skins for expensive ships than cheap ones. Look at the numbers for the capital or supercapital ships and compare them to the cruisers or even the battleships. The archon is far and away the most popular skin, followed by Aeon and Avatar.
- "Budget" skins tend to be popular in their size classes. The Intaki atron is a decent example of this. Although it is a inexpensive tech 1 frigate, people buy a relatively large amount of those skins since they only cost 740 Aurum. I would like to note that this is the cheapest skin in the store and still costs nearly 200 million isk, which is completely ludicrous for a ship that costs well under a million for a fully fit example.
- SKIN cost is a very important factor in which skins players buy. The abaddon skins which got converted to the new system are currently priced between around 1/10 to 1/20 of the price of the other Amarr battleships, and the increase in volume sold on the Jita market is almost directly correlated to the price.
- Visual differentiation is important. Players enjoy radically different paint schemes from the stock tech 1 look. Skins like Ardipashur which are only subtly different from tech one sell abysmally next to Khanid and Tash-Murkon, even when the price is lower. I put the Erebus sales in for this reason; I was really disappointing with those skins looking hardly different than the base ship and I haven't bought one for this reason. There Erebus skins selling ~40% less units than the Avatar does not surprise me when you can hardly tell there's a skin applied to the Erebus.
All in all, it's pretty embarrassing in my opinion to have market volume in the single digits (or even zero volume in the case of the Augoror Ardipashur) 6 weeks after the feature released. Hell, the old 6 billion isk monocle sold more on the market in this period (30 ish units) than nearly all of these skins. I still have hopes for the feature but damn you guys make it hard when you're sticking to the same rhetoric in the face of all the feedback and data. |
Omega Sunset
Black.Omega
271
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Posted - 2015.06.09 02:37:32 -
[133] - Quote
Desert Ice78 wrote:But where is my Guristas Golem then??!? ^^ this so this Make it so! *points*
I like the Kaalakiota and Wiyrkomi skins, but I think faction skins [permanent] and such established EVE lore skins would be far more a success. The clothing team makes them, why not for ships too? I'd probably go for the full clothing and ship skin set for my primary ships.
GÇö+¬GÇö
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Wylde Kardde
Wrekker Mix
15
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Posted - 2015.06.09 03:37:05 -
[134] - Quote
Im confused.. the title of the advertisement says 100+ skins added to the store, Is this just stating how many are currently available? or that 100+ more will be added throughout this summer. When I logged in today I literally thaught they added 100 new skins on top of the 4 marauder ones.
am i missing something?
The Origional Intention of Pirate BS's... pvp
Nightmare X-type Burn out
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyajGLoe0Kc
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CCP Darwin
C C P C C P Alliance
1507
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Posted - 2015.06.09 15:18:20 -
[135] - Quote
Dangeresque Too wrote:why develop a new system that was completely opposite of anything that we had suggested in the many threads of feedback? You guys asked for our feedback, and then turned around and ignored all of it and released something nobody had asked for.
What we can do is to some extent constrained by our graphics systems and historical choices about how ship art assets are authored. We're currently making technical changes to increase our flexibility in this regard, but this takes a while because we have to update the ships themselves to keep up.
Note that while many of the mismatched faction/hull combinations people were able to come up with using the recent client bug may look nice, they often have various issues that cause both visual and behind-the-scenes problems that wouldn't pass our QA process.
Our goal is to get our systems and procedures for ship authoring where they need to be to have the flexibility that you as a player want, while avoiding technical errors that cause visual glitches or, say, excessive errors dumped into client or server log files.
CCP Darwin GÇó Senior Technical Artist, EVE Online GÇó @mark_wilkins
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Ben Zaye
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2015.06.09 16:07:36 -
[136] - Quote
Hello,
We need duster on some Caldari ship :
Golem base skin (default) : Problem : The Golem new look is too dirty. And the corners and edges of vessel worn are very ugly. The ship did not look real. The ship definition level is poor. Solution : Remove dirt and upgrade the ship definition.
Widow : Same too dirty and definition problem as the Golem.
New Kaalakiota Golem skin : The ship definition level is poor and we have the same "too dirty" problem (same as above).
Thank you in advance for these fixes and improvements
Note : I use the Max resolution (High) setup for Graphic content, Texture quality and Effect |
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CCP Darwin
C C P C C P Alliance
1507
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Posted - 2015.06.09 16:21:07 -
[137] - Quote
Ben Zaye wrote:Problem : The Golem new look is too dirty. And the corners and edges of vessel worn are very ugly. The ship did not look real. The ship definition level is poor. Please direct general graphics comments to the Carnyx feedback thread.
CCP Darwin GÇó Senior Technical Artist, EVE Online GÇó @mark_wilkins
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Shinzhi Xadi
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
102
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Posted - 2015.06.09 21:46:44 -
[138] - Quote
Ben Zaye wrote:Hello,
We need duster on some Caldari ship :
Golem base skin (default) : Problem : The Golem new look is too dirty. And the corners and edges of vessel worn are very ugly. The ship did not look real. The ship definition level is poor. Solution : Remove dirt and upgrade the ship definition.
Widow : Same too dirty and definition problem as the Golem.
New Kaalakiota Golem skin : The ship definition level is poor and we have the same "too dirty" problem (same as above).
Thank you in advance for these fixes and improvements
Note : I use the Max resolution (High) setup for Graphic content, Texture quality and Effect
Try setting shaders to medium, that will remove the dirt, and make the ships look clean.
Mac Pro dual 6-core Xeon 3.06ghz, 24gig ecc ram, EVGA GTX 680 Mac Edition, Intel SSD, OS X Yosemite and Windows 8.1 Pro.
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
31703
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Posted - 2015.06.10 03:26:39 -
[139] - Quote
Unless it's the Golem. It's missing paint. http://i.imgur.com/aRBpcnE.png
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
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TERRIBLESPACEWARRIOR
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
0
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Posted - 2015.06.11 00:20:13 -
[140] - Quote
Entity wrote:Reusing skins of unique ships is not OK (Stratios skin)
I don't understand why you would hand out unique event rewards and then just go and reuse that content.
This is not fair to the people with said content.
Show me where this was said to be a unique ship never to be release again. |
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Ben Zaye
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
4
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Posted - 2015.06.11 13:32:54 -
[141] - Quote
CCP Darwin wrote:Ben Zaye wrote:Problem : The Golem new look is too dirty. And the corners and edges of vessel worn are very ugly. The ship did not look real. The ship definition level is poor. Please direct general graphics comments to the Carnyx feedback thread.
Hello,
If I wrote this comment here, is that you will make others skins for this summer and it would be good to readjust immediately the quality of the skins that you do, because in the Carnyx release, the new Golem skins are not a success in terms of quality and beauty and it is a pity.
Thank's for fast answer. |
DD Droid
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
3
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Posted - 2015.06.14 15:25:40 -
[142] - Quote
I am so happy with the skins! It is something I have wanted for a long time. I own several on different characters. Nice to be able to personalize our ships, It means something on the ones we aren't sending out to explode on a daily basis. The clothes and character accessories market is nice too...but the ship skins are what we are in mostly in game. Some I have wanted but were taken off the NES before I could buy them with AUR. Picked up my ORE Development Rorqual skin in Domain for 150 million ISK. Really like where this is going...it's not pay to win, as a Kaalakota paint job adds no DPS bonus. Yet is something that rich players will pay premium ISK for getting their Revelation Sarum skin from Jita.
If I could make one suggestion...Redo the corp logo system, so that players can have their own logo display in their ships. Easy to ask for, I know. A lot of development hours go into the simplest of improvements! So far I am very impressed at the ability to customize our ship appearances.
+1 CCP! |
Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
202
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Posted - 2015.06.14 17:07:10 -
[143] - Quote
CCP Darwin wrote:Dangeresque Too wrote:why develop a new system that was completely opposite of anything that we had suggested in the many threads of feedback? You guys asked for our feedback, and then turned around and ignored all of it and released something nobody had asked for. What we can do is to some extent constrained by our graphics systems and historical choices about how ship art assets are authored. We're currently making technical changes to increase our flexibility in this regard, but this takes a while because we have to update the ships themselves to keep up. So why not just focus those resources to fixing/removing the constraints? Instead of develop a completely new thing that "might" not be the long term end goal and will be replaced eventually? Seems it would have been a much better return on investment of developer time to focus on a technical hurdle which you know will have to be tackled down the road instead of doing what you did.
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CCP Darwin
C C P C C P Alliance
1523
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Posted - 2015.06.15 12:41:15 -
[144] - Quote
Dangeresque Too wrote:So why not just focus those resources to fixing/removing the constraints? Instead of develop a completely new thing that "might" not be the long term end goal and will be replaced eventually? I would say that all of our engineering work since last year in art/graphics has been about fixing and removing these constraints, in a way that builds for the long-term. However, releasing this work in stages ensures that we don't spend the better part of a year working on some huge, high-risk change that turns out not to be workable in the end.
CCP Darwin GÇó Senior Technical Artist, EVE Online GÇó @mark_wilkins
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Apoq Surrat
Amarritus Patriotus
1
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Posted - 2015.06.15 13:41:15 -
[145] - Quote
Maybe I was getting carried away with my hopes. When CCP said they were building in custom skins, I was thinking about color choices. Like coloring by numbers, say, Abaddon has 5 color zones, and we could set those colors to anything we wanted, kinda like choosing eye color in the character editor. It would give a nearly infinite range of styles, and my unskilled guess would be all the server has to do is track 5 small numbers to know what ship looks like what. I still hope eventually this sort of customization will be possible. |
Pestilen Ratte
Artimus Ratte
24
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Posted - 2015.06.16 18:06:38 -
[146] - Quote
With all the excitement surrounding the new skins, I thought I would give one of my old Tristans a refurbishment in a custom shop.
Yes. I pimped the Tristan.
Sandblasting it down to bare metal, you can see the hull is still pitted with rust, though the titanium plates and chrome remain unpitted:
http://imgur.com/wpOMGs4
Here is the rear on view. You can still see hints of corrosion on the hull, but overall it isn't too bad and the electrics work fine. Look at all that thick steel. Not an ounce of fat.
http://imgur.com/WKMwScI
Here is a close up of the various metal textures after sandblasting but before grinding back for the new finish.
http://imgur.com/Sdcok8O
Finally, we have the finished article, the Gallente Gentleman's Hunting Trisan, Militia Edition. The render quality sucks abit because mental ray and low skills. .
http://imgur.com/eLwf0O2
This is not a fat ship. |
Arcos Vandymion
White Beast Inc.
97
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Posted - 2015.06.18 21:31:51 -
[147] - Quote
While the Blood Raider Paladin looks rad as **** (*) I'm
STILL
waiting for my Blood Oracle. Everything else might as well not exist. Unless of course we get V5++ T3 cruisers in which case I'll immediately fly to Amarr to make a 100 MN HAM Legion finished in Khanid Navy and a Blood Laz0rboat. Since latter, due to technical difficulties, is unlikely I'll stick to Blood Oracool.
(*) courtesy of being a Blood Raider skin |
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
267
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Posted - 2015.06.20 23:06:11 -
[148] - Quote
By the way CCP, the price points for the Sanctuary SKINs on the Astero and Stratios are attractive and I have some now. The price difference between the Astero at 1,540 and the Stratios at 1,965 is a little odd in that it would seem that either the price for the Astero is too high or the price for the Stratios is too low since there is only a difference between the two of 400 AUR. Will see what you do with the Nestor on Tuesday.
Again: what is the pricing structure that you are using, or is it mostly random?
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Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
240
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Posted - 2015.06.24 11:48:27 -
[149] - Quote
CCP Darwin wrote:Dangeresque Too wrote:So why not just focus those resources to fixing/removing the constraints? Instead of develop a completely new thing that "might" not be the long term end goal and will be replaced eventually? I would say that all of our engineering work since last year in art/graphics has been about fixing and removing these constraints, in a way that builds for the long-term. However, releasing this work in stages ensures that we don't spend the better part of a year working on some huge, high-risk change that turns out not to be workable in the end. So you are purposely splitting your development resources towards temporary implementations into current "non-optimal" designs? The point was why not just focus on these constraints now that you have long ago proven that players want customized ships, instead of also continuing to work on non-optimal ways to deploy new skins in the current system?
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Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
244
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Posted - 2015.07.03 14:51:44 -
[150] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Kenneth Feld wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:Kenneth Feld wrote:LEVIATHAN
and also the Rag
But mainly,
LEVIATHAN
You make Caldari cry with no skins..... Quote:With that in mind we are aiming to have four new designer SKINs out this summer. Two for Minmatar and two for Caldari as those two empires have the least number of SKINs available right now. ;) That still puts Minnie and Caldari woefully behind Avatar has 2 and Aeon has 2 Levi and Rag - zero and Wyvern and Hel - 1 each Even adding 2 more per race gets us to one behind and that is if they are both for SC/T and not other ships Lets hope they are amazing and we don't need a choice...... True it's still not 100% equal but it's a large percentage closer than we are now. :) One step at a time.
Patch notes are out and i think you might have missed a few skins......
No mention of Levi or Rag
Color me suprised
Thank goodness I wasn't really expecting anything except typical ccp rhetoric
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