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Are you happy with CCPs level of communication?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 8 post(s)
JForce The Arrow Project The ARR0W Project	Posted - 2006.11.21 04:09:00 - [1] Expectation is a funny old thing. Having played tons of games over my life, I had never really had any contact with the companies behind them, unless it was "error blah blah fix it" etc. Eve is the first MMORPG I've played, and when I started 2 years ago I was impressed with the way the company interacted with the player base. Always reasonably open with things, the way things were headed etc. Then there was the explosion of users. Petition and Customer Service queues exploded along with the userbase, and the devs struggled to find time to talk to us. They posted a blog stating their desire to..um...post more blogs.... Since then we've enjoyed the fairly regular blogs, especially over the last 4 months or so when the performance of the servers has been pretty crappy. And then Kali1, aka Revelations, came along. And with it came many, many changes: In-game voice comms New Battleships for all the races New Battlecruisers for all the races A new contract system replacing escrows New gang system Rigs Invention Salvaging Exploration Scanning changes New map New corp management tools The list goes on. Those of you who've taken an interest in any of these things will know that none of them is without controversy. Each one has been debated, broken down piece by piece, with entire spreadsheets devoted to why the flux capacitor on the Hurricane is better than the one on a 1993 Honda Accord. And yet I have been stunned by the silence from CCP. Aside from the odd comment in a couple of the threads in the Kali forum, there has been very little if any response to the players on Kali changes. There have been literally dozens of very relevant and very genuine issues raised as a result of the huge changes Kali1 brings. In no way am I advocating for any of them, as I'm sure that the arguments have already been made both for and against. My view is that each of these needs addressing. There are lots of issues raised that I disagree with, but yet can't really fault the logic of, and would think deserve a look. I know that CCP are flat out with Kali1, with White Wolf, with The Sims: Station Life®, and that time is short. But to even state what concerns were being looked at, what is being ignored and why, would at least let us understand whether the testing and discussion and experiments are worth our time and effort. What are your thoughts on CCP's level of communication around Kali? I mean, isn't it supposed to launch on the 28th? I haven't seen anything official, but if they announce a huge outage for the patch only a couple of days before it, isn't that a bit...odd? Don't flame. If you have something constructive, please add it. Please don't discuss individual issues you may have with Kali elements. If you're happy with CCP then feel free to say so.
Idara Caldari Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.21 04:10:00 - [2] Edited by: Idara on 21/11/2006 04:13:00 I'd like a blog or something, considering it's right after Fanfest and we've heard absolutely nothing except the occasional post that Kali 1 is hoping for a deployment on the 28th. As far as I can tell, the stupid Features page for Kali hasn't even been updated, and that was "supposed" to have been done weeks ago. --- Go! Go! Go pointless Tier 3s! NERF PAPER!
Victor Valka Caldari Archon Industries	Posted - 2006.11.21 04:14:00 - [3] "It's a conspiracy!"
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2006.11.21 04:15:00 - [4] Lessons learned: 1) Forums are largely ignored 2) If you want something nerfed, go to Fanfest and complain about it there
JForce The Arrow Project The ARR0W Project	Posted - 2006.11.21 04:19:00 - [5] Originally by: Azerrad InExile Lessons learned: 1) Forums are largely ignored 2) If you want something nerfed, go to Fanfest and complain about it there You're not the first person to have said that, and it would be sad if info given to devs at Fanfest had more weight than the forums, given that EVERYONE can access the forums and give their thoughts.
Risien Drogonne	Posted - 2006.11.21 04:20:00 - [6] In my experience, CCP talks to its playerbase FAR more than the devs of any other game. Take WoW, for instance. While their forum mods might talk to you and their community reps, the actual devs are sighted maybe once every six months.
mechtech	Posted - 2006.11.21 04:36:00 - [7] For the most part, a yes. The only gripe that I have is that they don't say how they will address problems in the game, such as downsides of the HP boost, and the new ECM system.
JForce The Arrow Project The ARR0W Project	Posted - 2006.11.21 04:37:00 - [8] Originally by: Risien Drogonne In my experience, CCP talks to its playerbase FAR more than the devs of any other game. Take WoW, for instance. While their forum mods might talk to you and their community reps, the actual devs are sighted maybe once every six months. That's what I alluded to at the start of my first post...given that CCP does talk to us more, we now expect so much from them. Am I expecting too much?
Coasterbrian Celestial Fleet Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.21 04:38:00 - [9] It's pretty simple, actually. If the devs got into a debate with the players over whether a change is balanced or fair or not, and did it for every change they make that is potentially controversial (in other words, 99% of the changes), they would spend more time making forum posts than making the game. Hell, if the devs even READ every thread about change discussions, they would still probably spend half of their working day just keeping up on the forums. I think several devs (Oveur, maybe Hammerhead?) have stated in the past that they limit their forum whorage to an hour or so a day. TBH, I bet Sharkbait gets yelled at a lot when he's caught making forum posts instead of working. Also remember that the devs have to take everything brought up here with a grain of salt. People debating a change GENERALLY pick their point of view based on how it affects their gameplay style. Look at the removal of carriers as level 4 mission whoring machines: the people that did level 4s in lowsec in their carriers obviously weren't in favor of it, but much of the rest of the playerbase was. The same can go for any change in the game, be it the new gang system (which makes life difficult for large alliances, especially for the first few weeks after kali) to the tech II ammo changes (null nerf) to the debate over whether any of the new ships are worth a crap or not (sure they are, once you get over what you WANT to do with them and figure out what you CAN do with them ). You get the idea. ---------- I say what I mean, but I don't always mean what I say.
Jin Jemai Caldari Nightgliders	Posted - 2006.11.21 04:39:00 - [10] Am I annoyed with the level of communication from CCP themselves? No, but I am annoyed with the amount of communication coming from the community managers. WoW had the same issue early on, little to no communication, and finally Blizzard got their community managers straight and the communication levels rose. This is not an attack at the community managers at all, as it is usually a matter of lack of info from the devs to them that can cause this. I certainly think there is room for improvement in this area however, even if the community managers compile a list of the daily forum concerns to pass onto the devs for responses that the C.M's can pass on to us. That is if they don't already do that :P But yeah, it was inevitable that communication levels would decrease with the influx of players, there's simply too much to keep up with. Not to mention that aloft of our feedback lately has been a bunch of dorks whining and groaning about the stupidest things. ----- Im in ur Chicago wearing dresses at night.
Mithrantir Ob'lontra Gallente Ixion Defence Systems The Cyrene Initiative	Posted - 2006.11.21 04:41:00 - [11] This is the first MMORPG i am playing and so far i am amazed by the fact that the company people do take time to answer at some (true not all) questions raised here. But to be honest there must be a line. We as players are very biased and usually demand (note not ask we demand and extort) things that are simply not realistic. That said we also have (as all humans do) the need to ask for the advantage while not caring for the rest. Especially for Kali ( i am here after RMR so i don't know what happened then), the changes are big and change scares people. It's a fact of life. Change is quite luring and scary at the same time. So it's good that they don't answer to many threads. Because that would lead to a vast increase of whining and similar stuff, than now is going on. Maybe i am wrong but that is how i perceive it. ------- Nobody can be exactly like me. Even I have trouble doing it.
JForce The Arrow Project The ARR0W Project	Posted - 2006.11.21 04:46:00 - [12] I agree that there is a LOT of "feedback" that's of zero value. But there is an equal amount of geniune stuff that makes sense to at least consider. Or say you're not going to consider
Macrominer999	Posted - 2006.11.21 04:54:00 - [13] This company USED to be a genuine place to get help, support, and feedback from the devs. They USED to be reliable and respectful. They USED to be honorable, truthful, and dedicated. What are they now? None of the above. They have abandoned all tendencies that got them here... they substitute partying, greed, and ego... for dedication to their product and players. Shame on them... shame on young entropeneurs not knowing how to handle fame and fortune. They get their checks... they forget their reality checks. --- TRY AND CONTAIN ME... I'LL ONLY GROW STRONGER. ITS BEST YOU MAKE A PUBLIC COMMENT ON YOUR DECISION TO OVERLOOK YOUR BASE PLAYERS.
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.11.21 05:08:00 - [14] Interestingly enough, it seems from eve-search that there are the same number of dev posts now as there ever were. The problem is that the amount of traffic on the forum has increased with the player base (more than tripled since I joined I believe), and so the same number of posts (which is a LOT by game company standards) gets drowned out by people whining about the same thing over and over again. --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
Miss Overlord Gallente Ferrum Pugnus	Posted - 2006.11.21 05:09:00 - [15] compared with other MMOs CCP has always had a good level of communication i think they are doing a good job given the circumstances and the business pressures forcing kali to be deployed before xmas

LeMonde	Posted - 2006.11.21 05:29:00 - [16] Don't forget that while we may not be commenting/posting, we're still reading I think I can say with good certainty that just about every thread that hits general discussion is read by a CCP employee, many of them even get circulated and the points in them discussed within departments of the company. So while you may not get a gold bar on your thread, that doesn't mean we haven't seen it.

Loktofeit Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2006.11.21 05:51:00 - [17] Edited by: Loktofeit on 21/11/2006 05:53:22 Originally by: Hllaxiu Interestingly enough, it seems from eve-search that there are the same number of dev posts now as there ever were. The problem is that the amount of traffic on the forum has increased with the player base (more than tripled since I joined I believe), and so the same number of posts (which is a LOT by game company standards) gets drowned out by people whining about the same thing over and over again. Q F to the T I find it amusing that in the past few weeks we have received several blogs from the devs an entire day worth of speeches, videos, concept work, and PPTs on what they are working on in reasonable detail - the entire purpose of which was to get information out to the fans a good dozen or so interviews across the fansites a 70+ page glossy magazine with a dozen pages of dev-related content from interviews to handling scams to post-Kali Planetary Interaction plans and someone can actually post "I'd like a blog or something, considering it's right after Fanfest and we've heard absolutely nothing except the occasional post that Kali 1 is hoping for a deployment on the 28th." I'd say their communication is far superior to what you get from most MMOGs. ============================ EVE Vault : EVE Fanfest 2006 Coverage ============================
Tobias Sjodin Caldari Ore Mongers SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.21 06:21:00 - [18] Originally by: Hllaxiu Interestingly enough, it seems from eve-search that there are the same number of dev posts now as there ever were. The problem is that the amount of traffic on the forum has increased with the player base (more than tripled since I joined I believe), and so the same number of posts (which is a LOT by game company standards) gets drowned out by people whining about the same thing over and over again. A post for sore eyes. [ore mongers, recruiting]
JForce The Arrow Project The ARR0W Project	Posted - 2006.11.21 06:27:00 - [19] Originally by: Loktofeit Edited by: Loktofeit on 21/11/2006 05:53:22 Originally by: Hllaxiu Interestingly enough, it seems from eve-search that there are the same number of dev posts now as there ever were. The problem is that the amount of traffic on the forum has increased with the player base (more than tripled since I joined I believe), and so the same number of posts (which is a LOT by game company standards) gets drowned out by people whining about the same thing over and over again. Q F to the T I find it amusing that in the past few weeks we have received several blogs from the devs an entire day worth of speeches, videos, concept work, and PPTs on what they are working on in reasonable detail - the entire purpose of which was to get information out to the fans a good dozen or so interviews across the fansites a 70+ page glossy magazine with a dozen pages of dev-related content from interviews to handling scams to post-Kali Planetary Interaction plans and someone can actually post "I'd like a blog or something, considering it's right after Fanfest and we've heard absolutely nothing except the occasional post that Kali 1 is hoping for a deployment on the 28th." I'd say their communication is far superior to what you get from most MMOGs. No one is disputing that CCP are better than everyone else. But judged against their own high standards I feel they've been less than chatty over Kali recently. As far as Dev blogs go, there's been 1 on gangs, one on ECM, and a few on Kali progress. But none addressing the top10 issues raised by the community over the Kali changes. And I think that's a shame.
Roxanna Kell BURN EDEN	Posted - 2006.11.21 06:43:00 - [20] Originally by: LeMonde Don't forget that while we may not be commenting/posting, we're still reading I think I can say with good certainty that just about every thread that hits general discussion is read by a CCP employee, many of them even get circulated and the points in them discussed within departments of the company. So while you may not get a gold bar on your thread, that doesn't mean we haven't seen it. You should leave Footprints on every thread read by a dev ; ). LeMonde writes down a forum idea. Regarding the OP, Dude i can't complain, CCP are doing their best, and as far as I am concerned EVE is Always Ranked Number 1 MMORPG, Be thank full, if you don't like it, its a Bonus to move on a have a LIFE Believe me. Quote: "Don't touch the RED butt
Miss Overlord Gallente Ferrum Pugnus	Posted - 2006.11.21 06:46:00 - [21] eve is still the best out there by far
Cadadon Amarr terra firma team Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.21 07:24:00 - [22] Originally by: Hllaxiu Interestingly enough, it seems from eve-search that there are the same number of dev posts now as there ever were. The problem is that the amount of traffic on the forum has increased with the player base (more than tripled since I joined I believe), and so the same number of posts (which is a LOT by game company standards) gets drowned out by people whining about the same thing over and over again. That means nothing, Wrangler is a dev now, and continues to post in his normal way, interacting with the community, but its not 'dev' stuff (most of the time). Saying that, I can't blame the devs for not posting on here more, the community is a lot whinier now than it used to be, because EVE is becoming more main stream. I'd rather go back to the good old days of 10k max players, and a tight relationship between devs and players. --- They're -- They are Their -- The Smith's are selling their house There -- Look over there
Reiisha Frontier Technologies	Posted - 2006.11.21 08:05:00 - [23] Originally by: JForce Originally by: Risien Drogonne In my experience, CCP talks to its playerbase FAR more than the devs of any other game. Take WoW, for instance. While their forum mods might talk to you and their community reps, the actual devs are sighted maybe once every six months. That's what I alluded to at the start of my first post...given that CCP does talk to us more, we now expect so much from them. Am I expecting too much? Quite frnakly, yes. You forget that when a dev posts in any thread, it gets spammed by people who go offtopic just because they have seen a dev in it and think they can ask something from him. Or the topic just gtes flamed because he posted something that people dn't like. That's why devs usually don't post on the forums. Some people are idiots, bsaically. Let alone the fact that they can't spend 4 hours a day on the forums, they have things to do besides that.... It's a miracle they communicate with us as much as they do. EVE History Wiki - Help us fill it!
Reiisha Frontier Technologies	Posted - 2006.11.21 08:06:00 - [24] Originally by: Cadadon Originally by: Hllaxiu Interestingly enough, it seems from eve-search that there are the same number of dev posts now as there ever were. The problem is that the amount of traffic on the forum has increased with the player base (more than tripled since I joined I believe), and so the same number of posts (which is a LOT by game company standards) gets drowned out by people whining about the same thing over and over again. That means nothing, Wrangler is a dev now, and continues to post in his normal way, interacting with the community, but its not 'dev' stuff (most of the time). Saying that, I can't blame the devs for not posting on here more, the community is a lot whinier now than it used to be, because EVE is becoming more main stream. I'd rather go back to the good old days of 10k max players, and a tight relationship between devs and players. Wrangler is not a dev, he's assistant community manager - it's his job to work the forums :P EVE History Wiki - Help us fill it!
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.21 08:57:00 - [25] Originally by: Roxanna Kell Originally by: LeMonde Don't forget that while we may not be commenting/posting, we're still reading I think I can say with good certainty that just about every thread that hits general discussion is read by a CCP employee, many of them even get circulated and the points in them discussed within departments of the company. So while you may not get a gold bar on your thread, that doesn't mean we haven't seen it. You should leave Footprints on every thread read by a dev ; ). People have actually seriously suggested this before. :) But can you imagine the whine when people see that someone has read their thread but didnt reply to it? "OMG The sky is falling, ccp hates me because im amarr" etc etc. It worries me that threads are circulated around the office... im sure some of mine has been the laughingstock of the entire company at some time. But thats fine! Im here to please... or something. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Helison Gallente Times of Ancar THE R0NIN	Posted - 2006.11.21 10:40:00 - [26] While CCP is still quite active at communicating with us players, there is one point, which is quite lacking in the last time: real information. We are very busy discussing the aspects of Kali but we get nearly no information on how the features shall work. If we find a massive bug, QA is answering (thanks for this, specially to Mephysto), but if there are questions about game-design, nobody is giving any details. Just a few areas, where additional information would be / have been very good: * Booster-production * official info about warp to 0 and BM`s * Exploration (we know, how it works atm, but does it work like intended??) * Vivox ...
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.21 12:03:00 - [27] Well, I used to say CCP dont give out enough info, and they've actually changed that. The problem now seems to be that they give our wrong info ... And raise expectations that they can't deliver on. Part of that is in our own mind however, we always expect more then thay actually promise. But part of it also isn't, and it's pretty shocking to see for example the factional warfare implementation they seem to have worked on for more then half a year. All in all, frequency is now ok, content is still not. It's going to need improvement, because not every future change is going to be met with a majority of enthusiasm by default. Old blog
DrAtomic Atomic Heroes Forces of Freedom	Posted - 2006.11.21 14:16:00 - [28] Originally by: Eris Discordia I'm not testing because I'm selling my little appartment in Holland Blasphemy... Selling your appartment in the Netherlands... tisk. Ow well one pink house less... :P ----------------------------------------------- The BIG Lottery
Agent Li Galactic Defence Consortium	Posted - 2006.11.21 14:53:00 - [29] I'm happy with the level of communication. I am convinced that they read the forums. I also am convinced that while they do take some of the suggestions and complaints to heart, they aren't going to a) make everyone happy with their decisions and b) aren't going to waste time responding in a forum to infinitely repeated requests to answer the same questions. It's not arrogance. It's thousands of people asking the same questions over and over again, and the developers (a small team, by my reckoning) spending their time coding rather than writing blogs or answering forum questions. Most of these complaints/questions take the form of: <insert feature here> is going to unbalance the game and it will be the end of Eve! What are you going to do about it? or <insert feature here> is the only way I play in Eve, and if you nerf it, I will logoff forever! What are you going to do about it? or <insert feature here> currently ruins the game and it will be the end of Eve by tomorrow night! Why won't you nerf it?
Leon 026 Caldari Blood Inquisition Sani Khal'Vecna	Posted - 2006.11.21 14:54:00 - [30] I'm personally happy and content about CCP's level of communication, which is by far superior to say for example World of Warcraft. There is one thing that the EVE community needs to learn from WoW, and its that if you abuse and insult the devs (like the WoW community did at open beta and at launch), the devs are more likely to ignore you and detach themselves from the community, then you get the result of : whine and abuse the devs for not replying; and whine and abuse the devs FOR replying in a fashion that doesnt give in to your every single demands. Its headed that way unfortunately, seeing all the whine about ship balancing. ------------------------------- [ 2006.06.22 04:28:01 ] Leon 026 > My Crow dances like she's on ecstasy

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