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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Prydeless
Vengeance of the Fallen
Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.07 18:43:00 -
[121]
Im not happy with them just because the fact that thisthread is getting no attention other than kieron making a post as the op that basically says nothing....
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TitusFlamininus
Ars Caelestis
Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.07 18:47:00 -
[122]
 Originally by: Marcusi
Documentation over Communication
Eve has seriously evolved from when the original documentation was written and the current documentation is dated, incomplete, and often wrong. Heck, the Item Database on this site should have been updated either before or on Nov 28 with the release of Revelations. But instead it's almost two and a half months later and it's still not updated. And that's stuff that's easily pulled from the database. Things like POS operation, corp management, invention, etc are just ridiculous.
Instead of proper documentation, we're left to comb through dev blogs which are often more suggestive of changes than absolute information, forum posts by players that are discovering undocumented game mechanics, and very time intensive and potentially expensive trial and error testing in-game.
Add to this the incredible volume of bugs that make it nearly impossible for even GMs to agree on how something is supposed to work, and we end up with situations like just happened where a friend and longtime player quit in frustration because an undocumented "feature" caused him to lose a T2 BPO and the GMs couldn't even agree if it was a bug or not.
A wiki won't necessarily solve this unless it's a highly managed official and complete source of documentation rather than an ad-hoc "I just found this, maybe it's right, I'll add it to the wiki and if the overworked devs happen to notice it they might make corrections" repository.
I appreciate the communication through the dev blogs and forum. But they should be secondary to correct and reliable documentation of how the game works.
Absolutely signed.
EVE is by far the worst ever documented Game I have seen. Hell, it is worse than any professional software that I have seen to date. It is really not the job of the player community to provide documentation to this game. I would really second a CCP managed Wiki for this. It would also help your GMs immensely to know what works, what doesn't and what is fixed.
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Hektor Ramirez
Outer Ring Tourist Information Center
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Posted - 2007.02.07 19:00:00 -
[123]
How shall I put this? In a game, where specialising in a race or ship means a huge time commitment without easily predictable results, answers like "amarr will get some oomph" or "we'll look into stealthbombers maybe probably soon (tm) at some point" aren't exactly helpful.
Still, I think they're at least trying to get some questions answered, even if it appears that the probability of a mod/dev making an appearance in a "LOL LOOK CCP I'VE MADE A FEDO OUT OF PAPER MACHE [PICS INSIDE]" thread is substantially higher than in a well written post with a reasonable suggestion and 8 pages of people agreeing.
Anyway, playing mmorpgs means adapting a work-with-what-you're-given attitude and a high frustration tolerance so whatever 
-
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Swift Wind
6rasshopper Inc.
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Posted - 2007.02.07 21:02:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Sadao
Originally by: Oveur
Regarding the investigation, there will be a conclusion to it published, but it's going to be done when there is a conclusion, not before. This investigation, like others, isn't going to be rushed. And yes, it does take days. We are effectively re-auditing all the player accounts, all the time the account has been played, since he started. But more on that later. As pointed out, the process is sometimes as important as the conclusion.
That's very nice to hear Oveur. Thank you for taking the tiem to post it. Sometimes all it needs is a "hey guys don't worry were on it still. We understand your concerns" and reasonable people like me have our patience quenched. I know all you said was pretty much what kieron already said but when you have a few days and nothing at all, the tin foil hats get put back on
Could I suggest that just a locked sticky on General forum wouldn't go amiss labeled something like "Dooods we care" where you can state the above quote and give us ant updates to keep everyone calm?
/signed - thanks Oveur...
Quote:
Fix drones too. YouÆve replaced the petulant two-year old with an emo-teen.
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Swift Wind
6rasshopper Inc.
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Posted - 2007.02.07 21:05:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn
Actually CCP is one of the few studio that speaks really to their public. They not only tell thing, they speak to us. That mean there's an exchange, it's rare.
Very rare... try getting EA to listen to you, about anything. :)
Quote:
Fix drones too. YouÆve replaced the petulant two-year old with an emo-teen.
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Halkin
Locus Solus
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Posted - 2007.02.07 21:53:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Prydeless
Im not happy with them just because the fact that thisthread is getting no attention other than kieron making a post as the op that basically says nothing....
no one gives a rats ass what you think, exept maybe you (and xirt when you start crowing about the darklord).
what do you want them to do post an update every 20 mins, half hour, hour? give them time to get the results of their investigation, unless of course you want a half baked ill concluded one...
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Prydeless
Vengeance of the Fallen
Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.07 23:49:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Halkin
Originally by: Prydeless
Im not happy with them just because the fact that thisthread is getting no attention other than kieron making a post as the op that basically says nothing....
no one gives a rats ass what you think, exept maybe you (and xirt when you start crowing about the darklord).
what do you want them to do post an update every 20 mins, half hour, hour? give them time to get the results of their investigation, unless of course you want a half baked ill concluded one...
Hardy har har.... If you missed the post they did give a half baked ill concluded one, and then started an internet forum riot and finally after 20+ pages of posts decided that they made a mistake and now we are waiting on further results...
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Rhaegar Targarin
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.02.07 23:58:00 -
[128]
Edited by: Rhaegar Targarin on 08/02/2007 00:02:47
Originally by: LeMonde
Don't forget that while we may not be commenting/posting, we're still reading 
I think I can say with good certainty that just about every thread that hits general discussion is read by a CCP employee, many of them even get circulated and the points in them discussed within departments of the company.
So while you may not get a gold bar on your thread, that doesn't mean we haven't seen it.
I'd appreciate knowing how the Developers feel about topics we debate on the forums. I'd always find a Developers thoughts on any given topic useful as a tool for debate. It is hard to develop a convincing arguement when you do not know the other persons mind-set or objections to a given point of debate. When we ***** and moan at each other on these here forums, we don't do it for each other, we do it for you. I personally could care less what any other player thinks or feels and have no reason to argue with them about things as they can not change a damn thing. It is you we are actually talking to while we argue with each other.
So please, feel free to comment, as much as you will, we really would welcome even the shortest (yet informative and insightful) responses. It would probably end up making the forums a much nicer place to spend our time while sitting at a boring gate camp during another five hour shift.
Rhaegar Targarin - Minmatar Combat Pilot |
jeffb
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Posted - 2007.02.08 00:18:00 -
[129]
Edited by: jeffb on 08/02/2007 00:14:26
"Happy with CCP's level of communication?"
No. So far its been ban the whistleblower and hope everyone forgets about all the issues raised.
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Nira Li
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.02.08 00:20:00 -
[130]
If you take time and actully read what they say and wait a few days/weeks then their comunication is pretty good.
But if you expect them to answer everything in 24h you will get dissapointed.
You Will Cry My Name
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Abiel Mordecai
Gallente
Wings of Redemption
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Posted - 2007.02.08 02:28:00 -
[131]
I'd just like to say I think that CCP are great! They're not the perfect game developers, but hey, who is? They actually tell us what they are thinking well in advance, and I'm sure they take notice of at least some of our responses to the proposals. They openly ask for community ideas, and ask what we would like to see in the game. Also, they are great because they made such a great game. I played Star Wars Galaxies before Eve, and I can honestly say that the Eve dev team are a million times better than the idiots in charge of Galaxies (RIP).
CCP's communication could be a litlle better, yes, but I'm prepared to admit that sometimes we expect too much of them. I do know that they are constantly trying to improve the game and I'd rather they spend more time doing that than replying to every forum whiner who hates salvaging rates or warp stabs or the research lottery.
Having said all that though, CCP do have a habit of going mysteriously quiet over key issues. I don't know why they do it but I know a LOT of people who would like certain questions answered (like when my drones will finally do what I tell them 100% of the time!). And also, there's this latest BoB-Dev-Cheating-related scandal which is leaking its way onto every major gaming/news site on the web which we're not supposed to talk about anywhere right now until the matter is "resolved" because all the "official" threads have been locked. /sarcasm/ Good 2-way communication with that issue CCP...
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Milesofun
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Posted - 2007.02.11 01:32:00 -
[132]
No, I'm not happy with the current levels of communictaion  This whole Dev cheating scandel is a major snafu. We are looking at it so they say
But if you look at Kieron's rerply thread they didn't even know about the cyno net Seem some one in charge of it didn't know how he was going to move a bunch of dreads at a moments notice I feel bad that anyone would fail to look at the third party information to see if it had a thread of truth in it. To bad it was true 
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Helox
Gallente
Demonic Retribution
Pure.
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Posted - 2007.02.11 01:40:00 -
[133]
Originally by: Milesofun
No, I'm not happy with the current levels of communictaion This whole Dev cheating scandel is a major snafu. We are looking at it so they say
But if you look at Kieron's rerply thread they didn't even know about the cyno net Seem some one in charge of it didn't know how he was going to move a bunch of dreads at a moments notice I feel bad that anyone would fail to look at the third party information to see if it had a thread of truth in it. To bad it was true
I just can't believe they released the information on a friggin friday, and there is no communication bar 2 devblogs and a thread on a forum that noone reads.
--
the above is my personal opinion and does not necessarily reflect that of the little voices in my head
--
READ! |
Dagrin RDM
Caldari
The Knights of the New Republic
Forces of Freedom
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Posted - 2007.02.11 02:04:00 -
[134]
no
Originally by: Seroquel
it takes a while to get use to the people in eve. they are a little too... friendly. sorta like the texas chainsaw massacre country folk friendly.
[url="http://www.picoodle |
Aneeda
House Draconis
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Posted - 2007.02.11 02:07:00 -
[135]
Currently id rather have less contact with the developers. Marketing and customer service positions can take the undigestible garbage from the IT side of a company and transform it to be palatable to customers. It seems to me that too many decisions about game documentation and game information come directly from the developers.
Id rather a marketing or technical writer/designer step in and say... 'How are we going to make the information about the games direction accessible to our subscribers'.
The fact that i have to go to a developers blog to find out about customer service related issues is unfortunate. There is just a lot of information that i dont need to know about or that I just want summarized. Take for example when they did they last big hardware upgrade... they mentioned that there were '6 new billing servers'. I dont need to know that. Why do you feel thats information that needs to be communicated to me? Tell me that you have resolved performance issues or are working on it or tell me about what features are coming out soon... but dont bog me down with technical excuses or reasons for things that arent going right.
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Dagrin RDM
Caldari
The Knights of the New Republic
Forces of Freedom
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Posted - 2007.02.11 02:21:00 -
[136]
Originally by: Dagrin RDM
Originally by: Dagrin RDM
Originally by: Azerrad InExile
Since kieron is back answering questions:
Why weren't the T2 BPOs in question removed from the game when they were discovered??
I really liked Kieron's answer to this question....
....oh wait....nvm
Why hasn't this been answered yet?
Just answer this and I'll change my answer to yes.
Originally by: Seroquel
it takes a while to get use to the people in eve. they are a little too... friendly. sorta like the texas chainsaw massacre country folk friendly.
[url="http://www.picoodle |
zombu2
New Age Solutions
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Posted - 2007.02.11 04:21:00 -
[137]
Edited by: zombu2 on 11/02/2007 04:19:01
Edited by: zombu2 on 11/02/2007 04:18:37
i dunno the last incident with bob and devs siriously ruined the game for me i m not whining around i m just disappointed that not even a dev can obey the rules of eve not a good example for others :(
The low uptime is user related
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Stitcher
Caldari
J.I.T. Enterprises
Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.11 04:26:00 -
[138]
To be fair, I see no particular reason to suckle at CCP's info-teat on a permanent basis. I'd much rather they spend the time working on the new features rather than telling us about them.
I keep an eye out for any major news nuggets and official announcements, of course, but if none are forthcoming, it's hardly the end of the world. I can go fire up the inverse flux capacitor on my zealot and go pew-pew, secure in the knowledge that CCP are hard at work crafting the next batch of shiney things for me to play with.
so, in short - yes, I am perfectly satisfied with the level of communication we have with CCP. in fact, I'd say it's outstanding, and the EVE community is actually kept much more in the loop than we really need or deserve.
***
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D'an Y'eal
Dirty Deeds Corp.
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.02.11 06:15:00 -
[139]
No.
Why is This thread banished to the "Information Portal" Forum? Cause CCP doesn't want to communicate w/ you. They want you to keep playing their game w/ cheating devs and farce investigations (it took them a week to "investigate" something they already "handled" 7 months ago?). CCP has lied to every one of it's customers in the last 72 hours.... The next 72 will determine how much longer I will paying my subscription fees.
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Read This |
MrDisposable
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Posted - 2007.02.11 06:25:00 -
[140]
Originally by: D'an Y'eal
No.
Why is This thread banished to the "Information Portal" Forum? Cause CCP doesn't want to communicate w/ you. They want you to keep playing their game w/ cheating devs and farce investigations (it took them a week to "investigate" something they already "handled" 7 months ago?). CCP has lied to every one of it's customers in the last 72 hours.... The next 72 will determine how much longer I will paying my subscription fees.
I agree with you 100%.... but unfortunately I do not have the gristle to post it here so I must relegate to quoting. I am pretty worried about possible "repercussions" if ya get my meaning.
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Doc Extropy
Gallente
Freelance Unincorporated
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.02.11 08:56:00 -
[141]
Edited by: Doc Extropy on 11/02/2007 08:52:21
Originally by: MuthaTrucka
If by Communication you mean useless Fluff and things that may see the light of day then Yes I am satisfied.
On the other hand if you mean things that are pertinent and things that are/will be obfuscated then no I am not satisfied.
/signed
CCP should stop posting happy day marketing blah blah (I'm fed up with it to an extent you can hardly fit into words!) and give out useful information instead.
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Varis
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.02.11 09:07:00 -
[142]
Originally by: D'an Y'eal
No.
Why is This thread banished to the "Information Portal" Forum? Cause CCP doesn't want to communicate w/ you. They want you to keep playing their game w/ cheating devs and farce investigations (it took them a week to "investigate" something they already "handled" 7 months ago?). CCP has lied to every one of it's customers in the last 72 hours.... The next 72 will determine how much longer I will paying my subscription fees.
Umm, cause the info portal is supposed to be the CCP/player communication place? Where you talk about dev blogs etc?
Seems like the perfect place to put it
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Helox
Gallente
Demonic Retribution
Pure.
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Posted - 2007.02.11 13:28:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Varis
Originally by: D'an Y'eal
No.
Why is This thread banished to the "Information Portal" Forum? Cause CCP doesn't want to communicate w/ you. They want you to keep playing their game w/ cheating devs and farce investigations (it took them a week to "investigate" something they already "handled" 7 months ago?). CCP has lied to every one of it's customers in the last 72 hours.... The next 72 will determine how much longer I will paying my subscription fees.
Umm, cause the info portal is supposed to be the CCP/player communication place? Where you talk about dev blogs etc?
Seems like the perfect place to put it
Sure, but somehow an information post about keyloggers in macrominingtools (!) gets a sticky in EACH forum, and something like this, what might be one of the biggest scandals in Eve ever, is virtualy unnoticed. Worse, threads containing links to it get locked, and ISD makes all sorts of funny remarks. Well, glad some ppl are amused.
--
the above is my personal opinion and does not necessarily reflect that of the little voices in my head
--
READ! |
VeNT
Minmatar
Freelancer Union
Unaffiliated
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Posted - 2007.02.11 14:31:00 -
[144]
I WANT MORE DEV CHATS!
like in the old days, on IRC!
monthly DAMNIT!
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Selena 001 > has VeNT left system? its gone really quiet! |
Anatolius
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.02.11 15:06:00 -
[145]
Originally by: TitusFlamininus
EVE is by far the worst ever documented Game I have seen. Hell, it is worse than any professional software that I have seen to date. It is really not the job of the player community to provide documentation to this game. I would really second a CCP managed Wiki for this. It would also help your GMs immensely to know what works, what doesn't and what is fixed.
You haven't seen much professional software, have you? But I'd agree. Just the other day, I finally learned of a change that was made to the game aeons ago - when I was away from EVE. And I've been back for around or over a year now. 
I will give CCP this: Every other MMOG sucks ass when it comes to documentation too. I've been through my share of them, and I've yet to not be totally dependent on the community of these games to find out what the hell is going on. But there's really no excuse for it.
Other than that, I'm only irritated at one specific lack of communication; the current grave lack of information about the fact that a dev has done some rather shady things. That of course, should be discussed elsewhere, so I'll simply say: The mechanics (that is, at the very least, the economics through insertion of T2 BPOs that should not have been) of the game we're paying for have been altered through this debacle. This demands more than, "We're investigating. Ah, okay, well, uh, sorry!"
As for the rest, CCP communicates far more than any other MMOG company. Of this, there is no real question. Naturally, that's no reason not to improve communication whenever and whereever possible!
"If God be for us, whom can be against us?" |
Kua
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Posted - 2007.02.11 15:39:00 -
[146]
God no! Not anymore. :(
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KIZERIAN
Caldari
SKORPION CORP
Endless Horizon
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Posted - 2007.02.13 02:40:00 -
[147]
yes i find it a top class service - im always fully informed with all the latest news and comeing and goings and theese forums are the envy of the free world.
Kiz - Towing the party line
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Rshu Jhorlk
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Posted - 2007.02.14 10:16:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Aneeda
Currently id rather have less contact with the developers. Marketing and customer service positions can take the undigestible garbage from the IT side of a company and transform it to be palatable to customers. It seems to me that too many decisions about game documentation and game information come directly from the developers.
Id rather a marketing or technical writer/designer step in and say... 'How are we going to make the information about the games direction accessible to our subscribers'.
The fact that i have to go to a developers blog to find out about customer service related issues is unfortunate. There is just a lot of information that i dont need to know about or that I just want summarized. Take for example when they did they last big hardware upgrade... they mentioned that there were '6 new billing servers'. I dont need to know that. Why do you feel thats information that needs to be communicated to me? Tell me that you have resolved performance issues or are working on it or tell me about what features are coming out soon... but dont bog me down with technical excuses or reasons for things that arent going right.
And they say people (in general) are getting smarter.
Thank you, sir, for proving "them" wrong! 
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Par'Gellen
Low Grade Ore
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Posted - 2007.02.14 10:18:00 -
[149]
I'm happy with CCP's level of communication in all aspects EXCEPT bug reports. There really needs to be some way of seeing the ones you submit along with their status.
---
CCP : Save my mousewheel! |
Amira Silvermist
The Aegis Militia
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Posted - 2007.02.14 10:52:00 -
[150]
Better reasoning on the Revelation boards back then would have been better or on the "fix Amarr" threads for that matter...
A simple "They are fine because... /We intend to adress..." would have helped alot.
Besides that I think the level is quite good but obviously could be further improved, there never can be enough communication (even if this would delay features).
Amarr racial trait: Nerfbat damage resistance 0% |
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