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Wtf do the "theme parks that way" references mean

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Deimos UK UK Combat Operations 20	Posted - 2015.06.11 21:56:59 - [1] - Quote As above. I keep seeing this reference in forum replies on various topics.. Can someone give me the idiot-friendly translation please. Thank you
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 38036	Posted - 2015.06.11 22:00:42 - [2] - Quote Theme parks are places filled with content to be consumed and happiness for all people. Eve is not such a place. In eve you make content rather than have it spoon fed and the competitive nature creates winners and losers. Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
Yang Aurilen The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc 679	Posted - 2015.06.11 22:01:03 - [3] - Quote You ask CCP to hold your hand and have them tell you to have fun in eve because you cannot use your brain to have fun in eve. Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
Carmen Electra Shiptoasters 60880	Posted - 2015.06.11 22:02:42 - [4] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Theme parks are places filled with content to be consumed and happiness for all people. Eve is not such a place. In eve you make content rather than have it spoon fed and the competitive nature creates winners and losers. Scip, what do you have against happiness for all people? Bacon makes us stronger
Nerath Naaris Pink Winged Unicorns for Peace Love and Anarchy 1006	Posted - 2015.06.11 22:14:16 - [5] - Quote Carmen Electra wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: Theme parks are places filled with content to be consumed and happiness for all people. Eve is not such a place. In eve you make content rather than have it spoon fed and the competitive nature creates winners and losers. Scip, what do you have against happiness for all people? This is a question of (cosmic) balance: If there is a certain amount of happiness there also exists an equal amount of unhappiness. If someone is happy, another one is unhappy and vice versa of course. Or, in other words, an unhappy person makes me happy. Forum-unbanned since 2011.10.20.
Constantin Baracca Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 889	Posted - 2015.06.11 22:14:24 - [6] - Quote Deimos UK wrote: As above. I keep seeing this reference in forum replies on various topics.. Can someone give me the idiot-friendly translation please. Thank you About fifteen years ago or so, there was this line drawn in the sand about what way MMORPGs should go. On one hand were games that were "theme parks". The most commonly referenced example is World of Warcraft, but that style has a broader history. A theme park game includes sculpted environments and generally epic and linear storylines. Essentially, you go from place to place experiencing the product. Like a theme park. Then there are "sandbox" games. EVE isn't the only one, but I supposed I can use it as an example. In a sandbox game, there is, essentially, no common direction. You don't go from place to place doing quests in a line, to clarify. In EVE, you can theoretically go anywhere and do anything you want, developing in any direction you choose. There is also a strong emphasis on players developing content (sandcastles, in game terms). Now, no game since the millenium appeals to either sensibility strictly. Theme park games these days, as you're likely aware, have a broad set of things you can do. WoW, for example, has PVP, PVE, a pokemon simulation, racing, dueling, achievements, and a slew of other methods of moving forward that aren't necessarily mutually linear (very few games have PVP and PVE armor of equivalent ratings, for example). And, of course, EVE has a ton of little pockets of things to do, cosmic anomalies, that are not player-made and are for all intents and purposes places to go with set rankings based on your development. So anymore, it doesn't mean much. There are purists around though, your Southern revival Baptists. But that argument's been largely over for about five years in the general gaming community. The consensus seems to be that strict theme parks weren't different enough from regular video games with extra people around and strict sandbox games were tripping over their own feet by making the community you were supposed to mingle with also be your enemy NPC, which led to people often not forming organic social ties. Most common current game designs have a tendency to use elements of both to give their games a mix in hope of more players finding a niche. EVE being a relatively old sandbox game, though, you'll still have people who feel that any element that isn't player-made and controlled is worthy of contempt, so you'll probably hear the mantra then. I hope that answers your question. "What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?" -Matthew 16:26
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 38038	Posted - 2015.06.11 22:16:24 - [7] - Quote Carmen Electra wrote: Scip, what do you have against happiness for all people? Hot portrait Carm. Makes me happy. Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
Webvan All Kill No Skill 9366	Posted - 2015.06.11 22:23:00 - [8] - Quote Themepark noun 1. a cave in which Barney the Dinosaur dwells. 2. a box full of broken and urine soaked legos. 3. a building in which child care services are conducted. 4. a public swimming pool frequently contaminated. 5. an mmorpg with a progression path.
Ralph King-Griffin Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance 10026	Posted - 2015.06.11 22:27:25 - [9] - Quote Constantin Baracca wrote: EVE being a relatively old sandbox game, though, you'll still have people who feel that any element that isn't player-made and controlled is worthy of contempt, so you'll probably hear the mantra then. great answer (the full post) and this (quoted) is exactly the case, more often than not used when someone pushes for something that has traditionally been a player filled role be provided by an npc or other ingame mechanic i.e. safety, npc couriers , ectect =]\|[=
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 38039	Posted - 2015.06.11 22:38:56 - [10] - Quote Nerath Naaris wrote: Or, in other words, an unhappy person makes me happy. People choose on their own to be happy or unhappy and if someone is gaining happiness out of another person's unhappiness, that's kind of unfortunate. Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
Unsuccessful At Everything The Troll Bridge 21828	Posted - 2015.06.11 22:41:51 - [11] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Nerath Naaris wrote: Or, in other words, an unhappy person makes me happy. People choose on their own to be happy or unhappy. If people gain happiness out of other people's unhappiness, that's kind of unfortunate. You heard it here first folks, C&P is kind of unfortunate. *Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?*
Carmen Electra Shiptoasters 60881	Posted - 2015.06.11 22:43:19 - [12] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Nerath Naaris wrote: Or, in other words, an unhappy person makes me happy. People choose on their own to be happy or unhappy and if someone is gaining happiness out of another person's unhappiness, that's kind of unfortunate. Can confirm that I am happy when Scip is happy. Bacon makes us stronger
Ralph King-Griffin Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance 10026	Posted - 2015.06.11 22:43:47 - [13] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Nerath Naaris wrote: Or, in other words, an unhappy person makes me happy. People choose on their own to be happy or unhappy and if someone is gaining happiness out of another person's unhappiness, that's kind of unfortunate. only for the unhappy party =]\|[=
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 38039	Posted - 2015.06.11 22:46:05 - [14] - Quote Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: Nerath Naaris wrote: Or, in other words, an unhappy person makes me happy. People choose on their own to be happy or unhappy. If people gain happiness out of other people's unhappiness, that's kind of unfortunate. You heard it here first folks, C&P is kind of unfortunate. What happens in a game shouldn't be making anyone unhappy no matter what they are doing in it. There's a difference between gaining enjoyment from playing a game within its rules and choosing to be happy about that versus gaining happiness through someone else's unhappiness. Are you really suggesting that the purpose of C&P is for people to be happy because others are unhappy? Or are that gaining enjoyment playing their game and what that brings for them? Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
Lupe Meza Hedion University Amarr Empire 135	Posted - 2015.06.11 23:33:20 - [15] - Quote Deimos UK wrote: As above. I keep seeing this reference in forum replies on various topics.. Can someone give me the idiot-friendly translation please. Thank you Pretty much a reactionary statement to any additions to EVE that resemble other MMO models. Usually themepark MMO's have constructs that players interact with in a very defined way. In WoW for example you go through zones complete quests, then proceed to the next zone. The path to progression or success is clearly defined by the game itself. You could login daily and offer massages in Goldshire for gold, but in a themepark MMO that would probably be a waste of time since there is a laundry list of things you need to accomplish or do for any meaningful progress in the game. There is a set of armor to work towards, or an arena ranking, or a hard mode in a dungeon. Themepark games tend to offer a lot of attractions to play around on, but the playing around part is usually pretty clearly defined as there is a "correct" way to do go about it that is pretty explicit. You play the game, progress, reach the "end game", and wait for the developer to issue new rides and attractions in a future expansion. In a nutshell do activity X, get reward X for your efforts. The path to whatever your goal is readily defined and usually readily attainable. Anytime some feature is suggested to be added to EvE that has that feel in terms of the dynamic, usually gets the "Thempark thataway response", since EvE generally doesn't define a lot of things as far as goals are concerned. You can mine and do industry in high sec from day one. You can join a FW group from day one. You can mission, do exploration, a myriad of activities, but guaranteed any one of these activities will take a lot of time and effort to become proficient at. There is no video for "how to defeat boss mechanic x" and now everybody that follows smacks him around like a loot pinata. The game is largely player driven. You can't just watch a PVP video for example to excel at PVP, it might help, but to excel at PVP you have to up your skills as a player by doing it repeatedly against many different opponents until you figure out what works for you. Any facet of the game is comparable, it takes a lot of personal effort to educate yourself about the intricacies of a task in EvE, let alone execute it in a universe of non-cooperative capsuleers. You also have to accept that you may never reach a goal and hope that the experience trying to get there was at least enjoyable. This is a foreign concept to a Themepark approach and why anything that has that feel meets with derision from many. It has the potential to really dilute EvE if something crept in that turned it into a Themepark game. It already is pretty much a themepark in High, which isn't a bad thing for game balance reasons, but it is surrounded by more and more sandbox, until you hit Sov Null and WH space where anything goes. I personally don't have anything against themepark MMO's, there is something to be said for the presentation and feel of a well done one (GW2, WoW, FFXIV) but it does breed a mindset that is really incompatible for this game and what it tries to bring to the table. And many players get lost when they have to gauge whether they are winning or not, especially when not getting constant confirmation from the game that they are the greatest ever like a virtual doting parent.
Memphis Baas 454	Posted - 2015.06.12 00:31:40 - [16] - Quote World of Warcraft and SWTOR are "themepark" mmo games; you go from one zone to the next as you level up, and each zone has a theme. EVE Online is a "sandbox" mmo, you get thrown in, get some ships, and can go anywhere do anything you want. Build your own sandcastle in the sand. If you use WoW terms like "guild", "toon", "quest", people may tell you to go back to WoW or that themeparks are that way ->, meaning you have to get used to playing EVE like it's a different game from other MMO's, because it is.
Chopper Rollins Lantean Empire 1095	Posted - 2015.06.12 01:01:13 - [17] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Nerath Naaris wrote: Or, in other words, an unhappy person makes me happy. People choose on their own to be happy or unhappy and if someone is gaining happiness out of another person's unhappiness, that's kind of unfortunate. Some people are forced to be unhappy no matter what they choose. This is announced in local with a "GF". Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
Nana Skalski Poseidaon 197	Posted - 2015.06.12 01:13:35 - [18] - Quote It is the same as "WOWs that way". It means that someone thinks this idea, person, feature, item, belongs in other game, where it has more sense and would entertain masses, rather than bunch of neckbeards.
Unezka Turigahl Det Som Engang Var 776	Posted - 2015.06.12 02:01:50 - [19] - Quote If you don't agree with what I am saying, then you need to go back to WOW. Or COD. Whichever.
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 2517	Posted - 2015.06.12 02:05:41 - [20] - Quote Unezka Turigahl wrote: Or COD. Whichever. That one's for the lowsec people who can't type in full sentences or use punctuation.
Otso Bakarti Filial Pariahs 233	Posted - 2015.06.12 03:09:35 - [21] - Quote Well, you have these "gamers" who have convinced themselves they're doing something dangerous by moving pixels around. They view that as the only valid way to game - the way they game (which is no specific way. It depends on the they.) Add to this the general lack of manners and decorum that's popular today and you get a cute little phrase they think is sheer genius. You're supposed to react according to their lights. Carebear? Ooooh. Feel insulted! Theme Park? Ooooooh, feel like you're a two-year old with mommy holding your hand. In fact it means nothing - meaning: you get a different definition per person you ask, "What's that, then?" The idea is not to elucidate. It's to be dismissive. After all, that is the "new thing" try to be dismissive of people so you don't have to actually deal with them. The tactic is to bunch up in a group to make it seem like they're the whole world, and you're all alone. So, you're the one who's WRONG, or NOT COOL, or whatever Beavis and Butthead are saying these days. In the end...it's all text on a website - you know - a virtual Theme Park: I'm Cool. and You Suck Land. I survived Win95
Webvan All Kill No Skill 9391	Posted - 2015.06.12 04:28:07 - [22] - Quote Otso Bakarti wrote: I'm Cool. and You Suck Land. hah! by your definition, EVE could fit into the themepark game category. There's an enigma for you, a themepark sandbox game (they are like total opposite). Nope.. when one has a thirst for knowledge, they shouldn't just make things up, just makes for more confusion. Even this explains it well enough. Then sites like gamasutra (a popular developers site) spends lots time in technical details on the subject. Would be nice if it were true, because then from the designer/developer perspective it would be just as easy to develop any game as easily as it is to develop one of them themepark games. But truth is, sandbox type games are much more difficult to develop and maintain. Themeparks are very easy to make though, just set up your rails and have the players woosh on by at a nice steady rate. Especially now with all the f2p's themeparks copying wow, less investment means less risk, potential for quick cash cow money.
Deimos UK UK Combat Operations 21	Posted - 2015.06.12 06:32:22 - [23] - Quote Some great replies thank you everyone Found in your replies is the comparative to Eve to other MMOs.. I now hate other MMOs haha I tried WoW and hated it, same with STO and now can see the Question I asked is obvious in answer. Thank you again
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 6298	Posted - 2015.06.12 07:56:15 - [24] - Quote Webvan wrote: Otso Bakarti wrote: I'm Cool. and You Suck Land. hah! by your definition, EVE could fit into the themepark game category. There's an enigma for you, a themepark sandbox game (they are like total opposite). Nope.. when one has a thirst for knowledge, they shouldn't just make things up, just makes for more confusion. Even this explains it well enough. Then sites like gamasutra (a popular developers site) spends lots time in technical details on the subject. Would be nice if it were true, because then from the designer/developer perspective it would be just as easy to develop any game as easily as it is to develop one of them themepark games. But truth is, sandbox type games are much more difficult to develop and maintain. Themeparks are very easy to make though, just set up your rails and have the players woosh on by at a nice steady rate. Especially now with all the f2p's themeparks copying wow, less investment means less risk, potential for quick cash cow money. EVE could be classed as a themepark. Like most themepark games there's a limited subset of things to do. You can kid yourself and pretend that you're playing some unique way, but you're really just playing within the confines of restricted mechanics while making up your own goals at the same time. It's no different from a WoW player choosing a different way from the norm to play, like saying "I'm going to max out rep for this obscure and difficult to please faction" or "I'm going to run around killing lowbies in their levelling area". The only difference is that when an EVE player chooses to make up their own goal, they are arrogant enough to believe they're somehow better than other gamers. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
Aza Ebanu HC - Serenity 94	Posted - 2015.06.12 08:15:55 - [25] - Quote Deimos UK wrote: Some great replies thank you everyone Found in your replies is the comparative to Eve to other MMOs.. I now hate other MMOs haha I tried WoW and hated it, same with STO and now can see the Question I asked is obvious in answer. Thank you again Give EVE some time you'll learn to hate it too.
GankYou Redshield Holding Company 501	Posted - 2015.06.12 09:38:07 - [26] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Theme parks are places filled with content to be consumed and happiness for all people. Eve is not such a place. In eve you make content rather than have it spoon fed and the competitive nature creates winners and losers. Correct. Purview the forums for games like SWTOR and you'll see endless sea of cries for more content, which when introduced is cleared in a matter of weeks. And it takes months to develop it. ...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK. Gÿ+ Nullsec Ore Changes - Lowend Mineral Price Tracking [2015]
Cista2 Phoibe Enterprises 104	Posted - 2015.06.12 10:41:45 - [27] - Quote Deimos UK wrote: Some great replies thank you everyone Found in your replies is the comparative to Eve to other MMOs.. I now hate other MMOs haha The other posts didn't really explain the difference very well. Most point to a difference in how content is consumed linearly or not linearly. The sharp defintion of sandbox and themepark is this: in a sandbox you as a player can leave an imprint that is influencing other players. Like, castles in the RL sandbox. In a themepark game you cannot. In most themeparks the only influence you can wage on other players is through prices in the market. In a sandbox you have the market influence, but in addition you have some of the following: PvP with looting or similar, territorial dominance or ownership, terraforming or similar (starbases), political instruments, depletion of ressources. If you log out from a themepark and return a week later, your play conditions will not have changed. If you transfer to another server, the limits to your game experiences will be the same. In a sandbox game, the conditions will change over time due to other players. My channel: "Signatures" - Recommended: "The Biomass Bar" (for corpse selling)
Hir Miriel Elves In Space 205	Posted - 2015.06.12 14:01:17 - [28] - Quote Deimos UK wrote: As above. I keep seeing this reference in forum replies on various topics.. Can someone give me the idiot-friendly translation please. Thank you Theme parks are the preserve of carebears, both terms used to disparage gamers who don't have a macho frontier style. But EVE is just as much a theme park as any MMO, you can bank safely with NPCs, you don't lose skill points, Jump Clones are safe as houses. Your ISK can't be taken from you. If you leave the game and come back again, very little changes. Maybe prices will have gone up and down. Maybe a few big battles would have taken place. But it's hardly the harsh gritty reality of a game that some players suggest it is. And I think those players say that because it brings a certain cachet to them, as if they are space cowboys, pioneers of a frontier. Some people need to push others down to make themselves feel better. Like drowning people sometimes do to their rescuers. ~ ~~ Thinking inside Schrodinger's sandbox. ~~ ~
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 11362	Posted - 2015.06.12 15:07:24 - [29] - Quote Deimos UK wrote: Some great replies thank you everyone Found in your replies is the comparative to Eve to other MMOs.. I now hate other MMOs haha I tried WoW and hated it, same with STO and now can see the Question I asked is obvious in answer. Thank you again I don't hate other MMOs, I hate people who expect all MMOs to be the same (or claim to through their actions). The truth is that there are a LOT of "sandbox incompatible" players who play Sandbox games (not just EVE) and complain about lack of theme park features. It's a kind of insidious, "Borg-Like" Carebearism where people can't just go play games that make them happy, they need to go into games they don't like (made by companies they can't stand) and make them CONFORM. And it does not work in reverse, when I play Star Trek Online you don't get legions of people asking for 'more sandbox', you get people asking for more theme park ("When are we going to see higher level caps!!!"). The incompatible people are annoying, because like in real life, they are people who would rather stay in a certain place and make everyone else conform to their idea of "how it should be" rather than letting people who like a certain thing have that while they go off to someplace that does what they like. 20 years ago I had a college roommate who had certain...non-capitalist political ideas...and kept trying to foist those on us instead of moving to a damn country that does that crap, couldn't stand him either. Odd side note, last time I heard anything about the guy he was working for a BANK lol. When you are compatible with a situation you are in, one of the most annoying things ever is screaming, whining incompatibles begging the powers that be for "change" (for the shear sake of change).
SpaceyJoe Mentat Kollectorz 2	Posted - 2015.06.12 15:46:41 - [30] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: Webvan wrote: Otso Bakarti wrote: I'm Cool. and You Suck Land. hah! by your definition, EVE could fit into the themepark game category. There's an enigma for you, a themepark sandbox game (they are like total opposite). Nope.. when one has a thirst for knowledge, they shouldn't just make things up, just makes for more confusion. Even this explains it well enough. Then sites like gamasutra (a popular developers site) spends lots time in technical details on the subject. Would be nice if it were true, because then from the designer/developer perspective it would be just as easy to develop any game as easily as it is to develop one of them themepark games. But truth is, sandbox type games are much more difficult to develop and maintain. Themeparks are very easy to make though, just set up your rails and have the players woosh on by at a nice steady rate. Especially now with all the f2p's themeparks copying wow, less investment means less risk, potential for quick cash cow money. EVE could be classed as a themepark. Like most themepark games there's a limited subset of things to do. You can kid yourself and pretend that you're playing some unique way, but you're really just playing within the confines of restricted mechanics while making up your own goals at the same time. It's no different from a WoW player choosing a different way from the norm to play, like saying "I'm going to max out rep for this obscure and difficult to please faction" or "I'm going to run around killing lowbies in their levelling area". The only difference is that when an EVE player chooses to make up their own goal, they are arrogant enough to believe they're somehow better than other gamers. WoW has become so bloated in recent times it actually feels more like a sandbox to me than eve. There's an incredible amount of content in WoW these days and no forced linear path. There are less options for things to do in eve, therefore it feels more linear (doing same things over and over again). You can say the PVP aspects are a source of "continual new content", but that isn't unique to eve. There is market manipulation/competition in wow, every arena/bg/open world battle is different in wow (this incredible source of new content called PVP people think is unique to eve), and you can get ganked while trying to mine. What eve has that wow doesn't is a sov system and you can loot people after you kill them. Eve is just as much a themepark as wow, there are just less signs and the safety of your personal items is not ensured. And there are a lot less rides in the eve park than blizzard land.

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