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Wtf do the "theme parks that way" references mean

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Deimos UK UK Combat Operations 20	Posted - 2015.06.11 21:56:59 - [1] - Quote As above. I keep seeing this reference in forum replies on various topics.. Can someone give me the idiot-friendly translation please. Thank you
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 38036	Posted - 2015.06.11 22:00:42 - [2] - Quote Theme parks are places filled with content to be consumed and happiness for all people. Eve is not such a place. In eve you make content rather than have it spoon fed and the competitive nature creates winners and losers. Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
Yang Aurilen The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc 679	Posted - 2015.06.11 22:01:03 - [3] - Quote You ask CCP to hold your hand and have them tell you to have fun in eve because you cannot use your brain to have fun in eve. Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
Carmen Electra Shiptoasters 60880	Posted - 2015.06.11 22:02:42 - [4] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Theme parks are places filled with content to be consumed and happiness for all people. Eve is not such a place. In eve you make content rather than have it spoon fed and the competitive nature creates winners and losers. Scip, what do you have against happiness for all people? Bacon makes us stronger
Nerath Naaris Pink Winged Unicorns for Peace Love and Anarchy 1006	Posted - 2015.06.11 22:14:16 - [5] - Quote Carmen Electra wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: Theme parks are places filled with content to be consumed and happiness for all people. Eve is not such a place. In eve you make content rather than have it spoon fed and the competitive nature creates winners and losers. Scip, what do you have against happiness for all people? This is a question of (cosmic) balance: If there is a certain amount of happiness there also exists an equal amount of unhappiness. If someone is happy, another one is unhappy and vice versa of course. Or, in other words, an unhappy person makes me happy. Forum-unbanned since 2011.10.20.
Constantin Baracca Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 889	Posted - 2015.06.11 22:14:24 - [6] - Quote Deimos UK wrote: As above. I keep seeing this reference in forum replies on various topics.. Can someone give me the idiot-friendly translation please. Thank you About fifteen years ago or so, there was this line drawn in the sand about what way MMORPGs should go. On one hand were games that were "theme parks". The most commonly referenced example is World of Warcraft, but that style has a broader history. A theme park game includes sculpted environments and generally epic and linear storylines. Essentially, you go from place to place experiencing the product. Like a theme park. Then there are "sandbox" games. EVE isn't the only one, but I supposed I can use it as an example. In a sandbox game, there is, essentially, no common direction. You don't go from place to place doing quests in a line, to clarify. In EVE, you can theoretically go anywhere and do anything you want, developing in any direction you choose. There is also a strong emphasis on players developing content (sandcastles, in game terms). Now, no game since the millenium appeals to either sensibility strictly. Theme park games these days, as you're likely aware, have a broad set of things you can do. WoW, for example, has PVP, PVE, a pokemon simulation, racing, dueling, achievements, and a slew of other methods of moving forward that aren't necessarily mutually linear (very few games have PVP and PVE armor of equivalent ratings, for example). And, of course, EVE has a ton of little pockets of things to do, cosmic anomalies, that are not player-made and are for all intents and purposes places to go with set rankings based on your development. So anymore, it doesn't mean much. There are purists around though, your Southern revival Baptists. But that argument's been largely over for about five years in the general gaming community. The consensus seems to be that strict theme parks weren't different enough from regular video games with extra people around and strict sandbox games were tripping over their own feet by making the community you were supposed to mingle with also be your enemy NPC, which led to people often not forming organic social ties. Most common current game designs have a tendency to use elements of both to give their games a mix in hope of more players finding a niche. EVE being a relatively old sandbox game, though, you'll still have people who feel that any element that isn't player-made and controlled is worthy of contempt, so you'll probably hear the mantra then. I hope that answers your question. "What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?" -Matthew 16:26
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 38038	Posted - 2015.06.11 22:16:24 - [7] - Quote Carmen Electra wrote: Scip, what do you have against happiness for all people? Hot portrait Carm. Makes me happy. Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
Webvan All Kill No Skill 9366	Posted - 2015.06.11 22:23:00 - [8] - Quote Themepark noun 1. a cave in which Barney the Dinosaur dwells. 2. a box full of broken and urine soaked legos. 3. a building in which child care services are conducted. 4. a public swimming pool frequently contaminated. 5. an mmorpg with a progression path.
Ralph King-Griffin Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance 10026	Posted - 2015.06.11 22:27:25 - [9] - Quote Constantin Baracca wrote: EVE being a relatively old sandbox game, though, you'll still have people who feel that any element that isn't player-made and controlled is worthy of contempt, so you'll probably hear the mantra then. great answer (the full post) and this (quoted) is exactly the case, more often than not used when someone pushes for something that has traditionally been a player filled role be provided by an npc or other ingame mechanic i.e. safety, npc couriers , ectect =]\|[=
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 38039	Posted - 2015.06.11 22:38:56 - [10] - Quote Nerath Naaris wrote: Or, in other words, an unhappy person makes me happy. People choose on their own to be happy or unhappy and if someone is gaining happiness out of another person's unhappiness, that's kind of unfortunate. Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
Unsuccessful At Everything The Troll Bridge 21828	Posted - 2015.06.11 22:41:51 - [11] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Nerath Naaris wrote: Or, in other words, an unhappy person makes me happy. People choose on their own to be happy or unhappy. If people gain happiness out of other people's unhappiness, that's kind of unfortunate. You heard it here first folks, C&P is kind of unfortunate. *Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?*
Carmen Electra Shiptoasters 60881	Posted - 2015.06.11 22:43:19 - [12] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Nerath Naaris wrote: Or, in other words, an unhappy person makes me happy. People choose on their own to be happy or unhappy and if someone is gaining happiness out of another person's unhappiness, that's kind of unfortunate. Can confirm that I am happy when Scip is happy. Bacon makes us stronger
Ralph King-Griffin Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance 10026	Posted - 2015.06.11 22:43:47 - [13] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Nerath Naaris wrote: Or, in other words, an unhappy person makes me happy. People choose on their own to be happy or unhappy and if someone is gaining happiness out of another person's unhappiness, that's kind of unfortunate. only for the unhappy party =]\|[=
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 38039	Posted - 2015.06.11 22:46:05 - [14] - Quote Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: Nerath Naaris wrote: Or, in other words, an unhappy person makes me happy. People choose on their own to be happy or unhappy. If people gain happiness out of other people's unhappiness, that's kind of unfortunate. You heard it here first folks, C&P is kind of unfortunate. What happens in a game shouldn't be making anyone unhappy no matter what they are doing in it. There's a difference between gaining enjoyment from playing a game within its rules and choosing to be happy about that versus gaining happiness through someone else's unhappiness. Are you really suggesting that the purpose of C&P is for people to be happy because others are unhappy? Or are that gaining enjoyment playing their game and what that brings for them? Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
Lupe Meza Hedion University Amarr Empire 135	Posted - 2015.06.11 23:33:20 - [15] - Quote Deimos UK wrote: As above. I keep seeing this reference in forum replies on various topics.. Can someone give me the idiot-friendly translation please. Thank you Pretty much a reactionary statement to any additions to EVE that resemble other MMO models. Usually themepark MMO's have constructs that players interact with in a very defined way. In WoW for example you go through zones complete quests, then proceed to the next zone. The path to progression or success is clearly defined by the game itself. You could login daily and offer massages in Goldshire for gold, but in a themepark MMO that would probably be a waste of time since there is a laundry list of things you need to accomplish or do for any meaningful progress in the game. There is a set of armor to work towards, or an arena ranking, or a hard mode in a dungeon. Themepark games tend to offer a lot of attractions to play around on, but the playing around part is usually pretty clearly defined as there is a "correct" way to do go about it that is pretty explicit. You play the game, progress, reach the "end game", and wait for the developer to issue new rides and attractions in a future expansion. In a nutshell do activity X, get reward X for your efforts. The path to whatever your goal is readily defined and usually readily attainable. Anytime some feature is suggested to be added to EvE that has that feel in terms of the dynamic, usually gets the "Thempark thataway response", since EvE generally doesn't define a lot of things as far as goals are concerned. You can mine and do industry in high sec from day one. You can join a FW group from day one. You can mission, do exploration, a myriad of activities, but guaranteed any one of these activities will take a lot of time and effort to become proficient at. There is no video for "how to defeat boss mechanic x" and now everybody that follows smacks him around like a loot pinata. The game is largely player driven. You can't just watch a PVP video for example to excel at PVP, it might help, but to excel at PVP you have to up your skills as a player by doing it repeatedly against many different opponents until you figure out what works for you. Any facet of the game is comparable, it takes a lot of personal effort to educate yourself about the intricacies of a task in EvE, let alone execute it in a universe of non-cooperative capsuleers. You also have to accept that you may never reach a goal and hope that the experience trying to get there was at least enjoyable. This is a foreign concept to a Themepark approach and why anything that has that feel meets with derision from many. It has the potential to really dilute EvE if something crept in that turned it into a Themepark game. It already is pretty much a themepark in High, which isn't a bad thing for game balance reasons, but it is surrounded by more and more sandbox, until you hit Sov Null and WH space where anything goes. I personally don't have anything against themepark MMO's, there is something to be said for the presentation and feel of a well done one (GW2, WoW, FFXIV) but it does breed a mindset that is really incompatible for this game and what it tries to bring to the table. And many players get lost when they have to gauge whether they are winning or not, especially when not getting constant confirmation from the game that they are the greatest ever like a virtual doting parent.
Memphis Baas 454	Posted - 2015.06.12 00:31:40 - [16] - Quote World of Warcraft and SWTOR are "themepark" mmo games; you go from one zone to the next as you level up, and each zone has a theme. EVE Online is a "sandbox" mmo, you get thrown in, get some ships, and can go anywhere do anything you want. Build your own sandcastle in the sand. If you use WoW terms like "guild", "toon", "quest", people may tell you to go back to WoW or that themeparks are that way ->, meaning you have to get used to playing EVE like it's a different game from other MMO's, because it is.
Chopper Rollins Lantean Empire 1095	Posted - 2015.06.12 01:01:13 - [17] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Nerath Naaris wrote: Or, in other words, an unhappy person makes me happy. People choose on their own to be happy or unhappy and if someone is gaining happiness out of another person's unhappiness, that's kind of unfortunate. Some people are forced to be unhappy no matter what they choose. This is announced in local with a "GF". Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
Nana Skalski Poseidaon 197	Posted - 2015.06.12 01:13:35 - [18] - Quote It is the same as "WOWs that way". It means that someone thinks this idea, person, feature, item, belongs in other game, where it has more sense and would entertain masses, rather than bunch of neckbeards.
Unezka Turigahl Det Som Engang Var 776	Posted - 2015.06.12 02:01:50 - [19] - Quote If you don't agree with what I am saying, then you need to go back to WOW. Or COD. Whichever.
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 2517	Posted - 2015.06.12 02:05:41 - [20] - Quote Unezka Turigahl wrote: Or COD. Whichever. That one's for the lowsec people who can't type in full sentences or use punctuation.
Otso Bakarti Filial Pariahs 233	Posted - 2015.06.12 03:09:35 - [21] - Quote Well, you have these "gamers" who have convinced themselves they're doing something dangerous by moving pixels around. They view that as the only valid way to game - the way they game (which is no specific way. It depends on the they.) Add to this the general lack of manners and decorum that's popular today and you get a cute little phrase they think is sheer genius. You're supposed to react according to their lights. Carebear? Ooooh. Feel insulted! Theme Park? Ooooooh, feel like you're a two-year old with mommy holding your hand. In fact it means nothing - meaning: you get a different definition per person you ask, "What's that, then?" The idea is not to elucidate. It's to be dismissive. After all, that is the "new thing" try to be dismissive of people so you don't have to actually deal with them. The tactic is to bunch up in a group to make it seem like they're the whole world, and you're all alone. So, you're the one who's WRONG, or NOT COOL, or whatever Beavis and Butthead are saying these days. In the end...it's all text on a website - you know - a virtual Theme Park: I'm Cool. and You Suck Land. I survived Win95
Webvan All Kill No Skill 9391	Posted - 2015.06.12 04:28:07 - [22] - Quote Otso Bakarti wrote: I'm Cool. and You Suck Land. hah! by your definition, EVE could fit into the themepark game category. There's an enigma for you, a themepark sandbox game (they are like total opposite). Nope.. when one has a thirst for knowledge, they shouldn't just make things up, just makes for more confusion. Even this explains it well enough. Then sites like gamasutra (a popular developers site) spends lots time in technical details on the subject. Would be nice if it were true, because then from the designer/developer perspective it would be just as easy to develop any game as easily as it is to develop one of them themepark games. But truth is, sandbox type games are much more difficult to develop and maintain. Themeparks are very easy to make though, just set up your rails and have the players woosh on by at a nice steady rate. Especially now with all the f2p's themeparks copying wow, less investment means less risk, potential for quick cash cow money.
Deimos UK UK Combat Operations 21	Posted - 2015.06.12 06:32:22 - [23] - Quote Some great replies thank you everyone Found in your replies is the comparative to Eve to other MMOs.. I now hate other MMOs haha I tried WoW and hated it, same with STO and now can see the Question I asked is obvious in answer. Thank you again
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 6298	Posted - 2015.06.12 07:56:15 - [24] - Quote Webvan wrote: Otso Bakarti wrote: I'm Cool. and You Suck Land. hah! by your definition, EVE could fit into the themepark game category. There's an enigma for you, a themepark sandbox game (they are like total opposite). Nope.. when one has a thirst for knowledge, they shouldn't just make things up, just makes for more confusion. Even this explains it well enough. Then sites like gamasutra (a popular developers site) spends lots time in technical details on the subject. Would be nice if it were true, because then from the designer/developer perspective it would be just as easy to develop any game as easily as it is to develop one of them themepark games. But truth is, sandbox type games are much more difficult to develop and maintain. Themeparks are very easy to make though, just set up your rails and have the players woosh on by at a nice steady rate. Especially now with all the f2p's themeparks copying wow, less investment means less risk, potential for quick cash cow money. EVE could be classed as a themepark. Like most themepark games there's a limited subset of things to do. You can kid yourself and pretend that you're playing some unique way, but you're really just playing within the confines of restricted mechanics while making up your own goals at the same time. It's no different from a WoW player choosing a different way from the norm to play, like saying "I'm going to max out rep for this obscure and difficult to please faction" or "I'm going to run around killing lowbies in their levelling area". The only difference is that when an EVE player chooses to make up their own goal, they are arrogant enough to believe they're somehow better than other gamers. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
Aza Ebanu HC - Serenity 94	Posted - 2015.06.12 08:15:55 - [25] - Quote Deimos UK wrote: Some great replies thank you everyone Found in your replies is the comparative to Eve to other MMOs.. I now hate other MMOs haha I tried WoW and hated it, same with STO and now can see the Question I asked is obvious in answer. Thank you again Give EVE some time you'll learn to hate it too.
GankYou Redshield Holding Company 501	Posted - 2015.06.12 09:38:07 - [26] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Theme parks are places filled with content to be consumed and happiness for all people. Eve is not such a place. In eve you make content rather than have it spoon fed and the competitive nature creates winners and losers. Correct. Purview the forums for games like SWTOR and you'll see endless sea of cries for more content, which when introduced is cleared in a matter of weeks. And it takes months to develop it. ...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK. Gÿ+ Nullsec Ore Changes - Lowend Mineral Price Tracking [2015]
Cista2 Phoibe Enterprises 104	Posted - 2015.06.12 10:41:45 - [27] - Quote Deimos UK wrote: Some great replies thank you everyone Found in your replies is the comparative to Eve to other MMOs.. I now hate other MMOs haha The other posts didn't really explain the difference very well. Most point to a difference in how content is consumed linearly or not linearly. The sharp defintion of sandbox and themepark is this: in a sandbox you as a player can leave an imprint that is influencing other players. Like, castles in the RL sandbox. In a themepark game you cannot. In most themeparks the only influence you can wage on other players is through prices in the market. In a sandbox you have the market influence, but in addition you have some of the following: PvP with looting or similar, territorial dominance or ownership, terraforming or similar (starbases), political instruments, depletion of ressources. If you log out from a themepark and return a week later, your play conditions will not have changed. If you transfer to another server, the limits to your game experiences will be the same. In a sandbox game, the conditions will change over time due to other players. My channel: "Signatures" - Recommended: "The Biomass Bar" (for corpse selling)
Hir Miriel Elves In Space 205	Posted - 2015.06.12 14:01:17 - [28] - Quote Deimos UK wrote: As above. I keep seeing this reference in forum replies on various topics.. Can someone give me the idiot-friendly translation please. Thank you Theme parks are the preserve of carebears, both terms used to disparage gamers who don't have a macho frontier style. But EVE is just as much a theme park as any MMO, you can bank safely with NPCs, you don't lose skill points, Jump Clones are safe as houses. Your ISK can't be taken from you. If you leave the game and come back again, very little changes. Maybe prices will have gone up and down. Maybe a few big battles would have taken place. But it's hardly the harsh gritty reality of a game that some players suggest it is. And I think those players say that because it brings a certain cachet to them, as if they are space cowboys, pioneers of a frontier. Some people need to push others down to make themselves feel better. Like drowning people sometimes do to their rescuers. ~ ~~ Thinking inside Schrodinger's sandbox. ~~ ~
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 11362	Posted - 2015.06.12 15:07:24 - [29] - Quote Deimos UK wrote: Some great replies thank you everyone Found in your replies is the comparative to Eve to other MMOs.. I now hate other MMOs haha I tried WoW and hated it, same with STO and now can see the Question I asked is obvious in answer. Thank you again I don't hate other MMOs, I hate people who expect all MMOs to be the same (or claim to through their actions). The truth is that there are a LOT of "sandbox incompatible" players who play Sandbox games (not just EVE) and complain about lack of theme park features. It's a kind of insidious, "Borg-Like" Carebearism where people can't just go play games that make them happy, they need to go into games they don't like (made by companies they can't stand) and make them CONFORM. And it does not work in reverse, when I play Star Trek Online you don't get legions of people asking for 'more sandbox', you get people asking for more theme park ("When are we going to see higher level caps!!!"). The incompatible people are annoying, because like in real life, they are people who would rather stay in a certain place and make everyone else conform to their idea of "how it should be" rather than letting people who like a certain thing have that while they go off to someplace that does what they like. 20 years ago I had a college roommate who had certain...non-capitalist political ideas...and kept trying to foist those on us instead of moving to a damn country that does that crap, couldn't stand him either. Odd side note, last time I heard anything about the guy he was working for a BANK lol. When you are compatible with a situation you are in, one of the most annoying things ever is screaming, whining incompatibles begging the powers that be for "change" (for the shear sake of change).
SpaceyJoe Mentat Kollectorz 2	Posted - 2015.06.12 15:46:41 - [30] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: Webvan wrote: Otso Bakarti wrote: I'm Cool. and You Suck Land. hah! by your definition, EVE could fit into the themepark game category. There's an enigma for you, a themepark sandbox game (they are like total opposite). Nope.. when one has a thirst for knowledge, they shouldn't just make things up, just makes for more confusion. Even this explains it well enough. Then sites like gamasutra (a popular developers site) spends lots time in technical details on the subject. Would be nice if it were true, because then from the designer/developer perspective it would be just as easy to develop any game as easily as it is to develop one of them themepark games. But truth is, sandbox type games are much more difficult to develop and maintain. Themeparks are very easy to make though, just set up your rails and have the players woosh on by at a nice steady rate. Especially now with all the f2p's themeparks copying wow, less investment means less risk, potential for quick cash cow money. EVE could be classed as a themepark. Like most themepark games there's a limited subset of things to do. You can kid yourself and pretend that you're playing some unique way, but you're really just playing within the confines of restricted mechanics while making up your own goals at the same time. It's no different from a WoW player choosing a different way from the norm to play, like saying "I'm going to max out rep for this obscure and difficult to please faction" or "I'm going to run around killing lowbies in their levelling area". The only difference is that when an EVE player chooses to make up their own goal, they are arrogant enough to believe they're somehow better than other gamers. WoW has become so bloated in recent times it actually feels more like a sandbox to me than eve. There's an incredible amount of content in WoW these days and no forced linear path. There are less options for things to do in eve, therefore it feels more linear (doing same things over and over again). You can say the PVP aspects are a source of "continual new content", but that isn't unique to eve. There is market manipulation/competition in wow, every arena/bg/open world battle is different in wow (this incredible source of new content called PVP people think is unique to eve), and you can get ganked while trying to mine. What eve has that wow doesn't is a sov system and you can loot people after you kill them. Eve is just as much a themepark as wow, there are just less signs and the safety of your personal items is not ensured. And there are a lot less rides in the eve park than blizzard land.
Brapi Hedion University Amarr Empire 2	Posted - 2015.06.12 15:58:08 - [31] - Quote Theme park without a ticket Sandbox with a pay to enter gate. These ideas are disimilar to real life. I see walls, hardware, CCP software on someone else's software. Saying there is no theme in EVE's park is like saying it's just another box game with 'whats in the box' mentality playstyle alongside the opportunity to be on chat roulette or some other face-2-face chat engine facing big bad scammers for self-defense development. It's a game, it is both theme park and sandbox with free sand at the same time.
March rabbit Federal Defense Union 1686	Posted - 2015.06.12 16:01:37 - [32] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Are you really suggesting that the purpose of C&P is for people to be happy because others are unhappy? Visited it couple times i could think so.... The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Demerius Xenocratus Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 425	Posted - 2015.06.12 17:39:44 - [33] - Quote March rabbit wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: Are you really suggesting that the purpose of C&P is for people to be happy because others are unhappy? Visited it couple times i could think so.... Can't really argue with that assessment.
Bellatrix Invicta New Order Logistics CODE. 8	Posted - 2015.06.12 17:45:44 - [34] - Quote When a game has more information about boss fight tactics, positioning and class makeup online than history of the game or in-game lore, it's a themepark. It all gets boiled down to mobbing trash to the raid boss then all standing in certain spots while pressing butans. Mindless, boring and completely free of challenge. Theme park. Where nothing is actually dangerous.
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 6303	Posted - 2015.06.12 18:04:28 - [35] - Quote Demerius Xenocratus wrote: March rabbit wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: Are you really suggesting that the purpose of C&P is for people to be happy because others are unhappy? Visited it couple times i could think so.... Can't really argue with that assessment. I too would have to agree with that. I thought it was common knowledge that much of C&P is dedicated to enjoying the tears of other players. If people weren't being made unhappy they'd have no fun. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 6303	Posted - 2015.06.12 18:09:33 - [36] - Quote Bellatrix Invicta wrote: When a game has more information about boss fight tactics, positioning and class makeup online than history of the game or in-game lore, it's a themepark. It all gets boiled down to mobbing trash to the raid boss then all standing in certain spots while pressing butans. Mindless, boring and completely free of challenge. Theme park. Where nothing is actually dangerous. This would classify nearly every game (except brand new games amusingly, until they got big) as a themepark, EVE included. And dude, EVE isn't dangerous either, ships are just better categorised as consumables. Pretty much all you ever need to risk n EVE boils down to isk, which there's enough of that it's pretty much irrelevant to most people these days. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
Aza Ebanu HC - Serenity 95	Posted - 2015.06.12 18:15:03 - [37] - Quote Memphis Baas wrote: World of Warcraft and SWTOR are "themepark" mmo games; you go from one zone to the next as you level up, and each zone has a theme. EVE Online is a "sandbox" mmo, you get thrown in, get some ships, and can go anywhere do anything you want. Build your own sandcastle in the sand. If you use WoW terms like "guild", "toon", "quest", people may tell you to go back to WoW or that themeparks are that way ->, meaning you have to get used to playing EVE like it's a different game from other MMO's, because it is. Hmm I wonder if some one could apply tht to EVE Online's "zones" High sec, Low sec, 0.0 sec, WH. They have more of a single cascading theme, but a they are zones.
Aza Ebanu HC - Serenity 95	Posted - 2015.06.12 18:21:04 - [38] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: I don't hate other MMOs, I hate people who expect all MMOs to be the same (or claim to through their actions). The truth is that there are a LOT of "sandbox incompatible" players who play Sandbox games (not just EVE) and complain about lack of theme park features. 1. EVE you hate people over something like that? 2. EVE is more of a "litter box".
Nana Skalski Poseidaon 197	Posted - 2015.06.12 18:22:22 - [39] - Quote Well, in my knowledge EVE is the one and only to have such vast space to conquer and call your own. In other games: You don't really feel and have such freedom to act and prosper. You can have map like in Planetside, but what when you conquer it? You don't have economy like in EVE to reap rewards and resources. You can have castle or a battlefield like in Age of Conan and when you conquer it, you will take some points and exchange them for new items, but its the only map or the only guild castle, because there are different servers, and there are instances everywhere.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 11366	Posted - 2015.06.12 18:25:18 - [40] - Quote Aza Ebanu wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: I don't hate other MMOs, I hate people who expect all MMOs to be the same (or claim to through their actions). The truth is that there are a LOT of "sandbox incompatible" players who play Sandbox games (not just EVE) and complain about lack of theme park features. 1. EVE you hate people over something like that? 2. EVE is more of a "litter box". If you don't like it (and think it's a littler box), why are you playing it? And 'hate' is just a word,
Emiko P'eng 129	Posted - 2015.06.12 18:27:46 - [41] - Quote As so far stated 'go find a themepark game' is usually aimed at those who want to turn EVE into, as stated, WoW or SWToR A game that will hold your hand and lead you through the stories and fights, giving you the things to fight in an interesting order that will be a bit of a challenge but not dishearten you if you die a couple of times. They will even offer you an easier route to gain levels if you really don't want to try the 'hard stuff' So unless you are a complete idiot everyone will end up stinking Rich with multiple sets of Armour, Titles, Achievements, Homes, Mounts, Crafting Skills all as the game designer and game owner wanted. --- EVE on the other hand is where a Small Corporation who has friends in a 210 man Alliance. Spot some easy pickings. So out of the blue they both Declare War on your little corp and proceed to rip up your Custom Offices and lay waste to your investments in a couple of evenings. Forcing a quick rethink and redirecting of resources. Totally unscripted and unexpected! There is no end in EVE, there are no ultimate bosses to slay, just lots and lots of real life players all with their own goals and agendas. Some of them will agree with you and help you with your aims and goals, but usually they will mostly oppose your aims and goals This is what makes EVE a real challenge and as a result gives you a real buzz, even during a disaster Hehe! Even if you are a consummate ancient , in real life, carebear like me, who's the CEO of the little corp That is why 'go find a themepark game' , 'Go back to WoW' are used as a term of derision if a suggestion in the forum seems to want to make EVE safer, easier or linear!
La Rynx School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 239	Posted - 2015.06.12 18:57:10 - [42] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: Bellatrix Invicta wrote: When a game has more information about boss fight tactics, positioning and class makeup online than history of the game or in-game lore, it's a themepark. It all gets boiled down to mobbing trash to the raid boss then all standing in certain spots while pressing butans. Mindless, boring and completely free of challenge. Theme park. Where nothing is actually dangerous. This would classify nearly every game (except brand new games amusingly, until they got big) as a themepark, EVE included. And dude, EVE isn't dangerous either, ships are just better categorised as consumables. Pretty much all you ever need to risk n EVE boils down to isk, which there's enough of that it's pretty much irrelevant to most people these days. some ppl need the illusion, that they are tougher and smarter than other online players. They are not! wow like gameplay: look for harder opponents. (boss fights) eve pvp eltists: look for the weakest targets and boast like klingons if you downed one... hmmmm.... lol Eve is much better than that! i just got insight how the real big players play this game. much more impressive than the standard carebear yapping. "Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time." Forum Main
DaReaper Net 7 2205	Posted - 2015.06.12 19:37:56 - [43] - Quote Probably already covered. A theme park is an mmo that has stuff you run in a linear progression. Or things designed for you to do. Example: A raid in WoW is the equivalent of an E Ticket ride at Disneyland. So you do the 'kiddy' adventures in the newbie area, run quests, raids, kill npc's. then when you reach lvl 5, you move to the next area, the mobs are harder, the raids harder, and quests harder. Then when you level up, you move to the next area. Wash rinse repeat. Its like going to Disneyland, and riding the monorail, then pirates of the carabian, then haunted mansion, then maybe moving up to buz, then star tours, then doing the roller coasters, all the way up to the E-tickets. Once you have ran everything, you go run you favorite stuff again. Then eventually, the game developers (or in this case imagineers) make a new land with new rides in it. and they cycles keeps going. EvE is not like this. there is a small theme park in that you CAN run missions, 1-5, you can go to incursions which has a natural progression of easy to hard. But this is basically like going to the Santa Cruiz beach board walk. you have the theme park area, but also the beach to go play in with tools littered all over. thats what they mean by 'go back to the theme park' Players now a days need a Final Fantasy (non mmo)type story, were you progress to the end and 'beat the game' IMO, eve's theme park sections could be made better. But not at the expense of the sandbox. OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
La Rynx School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 240	Posted - 2015.06.13 09:12:52 - [44] - Quote i do not think people want "to beat a game". it is just impossible to create a an endless game in a certain amiunt of time. from this Point of view, MMOs are those endless games. WoW is like that. ppl hunger for more entertainment. blizzard delivers. Thats the reason for those lonewolfs playing multiplayergames. Because more content gets created as times go by. teve and wow differ in the theme of the park. one si scifi, one is fantasy. eve is a theme park too, one where some attractian is like stick lying around where you can beat other players or puppets in the park. the owner still ahs to deliver new kinds of sticks or more surroundings and interesting opportuninities, to have the players to hide and seek. but eve too , is a themepark. "Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time." Forum Main
Webvan All Kill No Skill 9502	Posted - 2015.06.13 10:48:51 - [45] - Quote DaReaper wrote: EvE is not like this. there is a small theme park in that you CAN run missions, 1-5, you can go to incursions which has a natural progression of easy to hard. But this is basically like going to the Santa Cruiz beach board walk. you have the theme park area, but also the beach to go play in with tools littered all over. Hey "E-Ticket" grandpa, missions are not a progression themepark mechanic If they were, you'd level-up by doing them. 5yrs into the game, you might find yourself grinding lvl1's to raise faction and standings. Missions have and do fit well inside a sandbox. EVE isn't the first sandbox to do so. gramps. PotC was so much better before the johnny depp makeover. Well, at least they didn't cast MaAatt DAAaamooon as Capt. Jack Sparrow.
Constantin Baracca Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 919	Posted - 2015.06.13 13:33:58 - [46] - Quote La Rynx wrote: i do not think people want "to beat a game". it is just impossible to create a an endless game in a certain amount of time. from this Point of view, MMOs are those endless games. WoW is like that. ppl hunger for more entertainment. blizzard delivers. No need to create extra social contacts. Thats the reason for those lonewolfs playing multiplayergames. Because more content gets created as times go by. eve and wow differ in the theme of the park. one is scifi, one is fantasy. eve is a theme park too, one where some attraction is like sticks lying around where you can beat other players or puppets in the park. the owner still has to deliver new kinds of sticks or more surroundings and interesting opportuninities, to have the players to hide and seek. but eve too , is a themepark. Player content? When it comes(?) to repetition, its even worse. There is not so much different content. Waiting for easy kills at bubbles. Waiting for easy gank targets. The tactics are more repetetive than gameplay in WoW can be. If you are thinking it over and being honest, you know that. I just want to point out here that there are ways to create truly randomized content in a PVE sense. You've seen it tried with games like Diablo. FfXIV FATEs and RIFT come to mind. There are examples of attempts to create a far mor random experience. They can't quite get there though because, of course, they're all sculpted landscapes and have issues with how structures and enemies can appear. EVE, uniquely, doesn't have that problem. EVE is one of the only games that can, essentially, create something out of nothing. That's all a cosmic anomaly is. Content that springs to life from nowhere. EVE could implement anything any other MMORPG does. More importantly, it can do a huge amount of things they can't. They can implement true random tuned encounters without becoming a theme park. And it's a shame they haven't. No other gamr I've seen out there can or will be able to do that. CCP hasn't even scratched the surface of what their game can do because they've got such a limited approach to their audience and design. Their current audience might see that effort as fueling a PVE conversion that weakens the draw of PVP at worst and an amusing distraction at best. But there are a lot of people NOT playing the game right now who would find that kind of content to be endlessly fascinating. "What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?" -Matthew 16:26
Pops Tickle Tickle Industries 46	Posted - 2015.06.13 15:09:29 - [47] - Quote As I am on a posting spree I would like to point at reddit, specifically the thread about drifter incursions. For fun, I will not link it myself and instead let you look for it. :) CCP Rise wrote: "We have tried and tried to validate the myth that griefing has a pronounced affect on new players - we have failed." Source
DaReaper Net 7 2213	Posted - 2015.06.14 19:52:32 - [48] - Quote Webvan wrote: DaReaper wrote: EvE is not like this. there is a small theme park in that you CAN run missions, 1-5, you can go to incursions which has a natural progression of easy to hard. But this is basically like going to the Santa Cruiz beach board walk. you have the theme park area, but also the beach to go play in with tools littered all over. Hey "E-Ticket" grandpa, missions are not a progression themepark mechanic If they were, you'd level-up by doing them. 5yrs into the game, you might find yourself grinding lvl1's to raise faction and standings. Missions have and do fit well inside a sandbox. EVE isn't the first sandbox to do so. gramps. PotC was so much better before the johnny depp makeover. Well, at least they didn't cast MaAatt DAAaamooon as Capt. Jack Sparrow. its as close to a theme park area as eve has, OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
Hasikan Miallok Republic University Minmatar Republic 1438	Posted - 2015.06.15 00:57:05 - [49] - Quote Key Difference: Theme park MMO: The majority of content is made by the devs. Once you have done all the current quests, acquired all the current gear there is nothing much to do but hang around chat and wait till the next release for new quests/gear/stuff-to-do. Sandbox MMO: A limited amount of content is provided by the devs. Most of the goals will be player created. The game only gets boring when the players get blaise and stop doing new stuff. All games are a mixture. EVE has some theme park content like the new player tutorials, incursions and mission running. WoW has some player created content. Some games like Archmage seem to be about 50/50 of each.
Webvan All Kill No Skill 9620	Posted - 2015.06.15 02:25:59 - [50] - Quote DaReaper wrote: its as close to a theme park area as eve has, close to it... well you could say the same thing about mining then, in fact more so because it's actually a static encounter. EVE is obviously not a pure sandbox, it's an openworld mmo (more reminiscent of a simulator e.g. sandbox-simulator er or simulated-sandbox). Openworld shouldn't be confused with themepark, design mechanics tend to be a bit different. The only pure sandbox mmo I can think of is secondlife. I still have an old book of Disney tickets btw
Kira Jonsdottir Jameco Industries The Big Dirty 1	Posted - 2015.06.15 09:26:04 - [51] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Theme parks are places filled with content to be consumed and happiness for all people. Eve is not such a place. In eve you make content rather than have it spoon fed and the competitive nature creates winners and losers. That makes absolutely no sense at all. In a true sandbox the traditionally held concepts of winning and losing are largely meaningless, there is no set win condition and winning and losing are entirely subjective experiences that can vary considerably between people.
Falken Falcon 31991	Posted - 2015.06.15 10:25:55 - [52] - Quote Kira Jonsdottir wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: Theme parks are places filled with content to be consumed and happiness for all people. Eve is not such a place. In eve you make content rather than have it spoon fed and the competitive nature creates winners and losers. That makes absolutely no sense at all. In a true sandbox the traditionally held concepts of winning and losing are largely meaningless, there is no set win condition and winning and losing are entirely subjective experiences that can vary considerably between people. It makes sense. The win/lose depends what game are the rivals playing. In sov warfare winner is the one who stands longer, but mostly people in eve consider winning something, let's say a battle, is that you killed more isk than you lost (aka ISK war) even if you welp the fleet to kill one ship. On the other hand the other fleet might consider winning as the last ship standing. This is why the idea of 'winning' something in eve is not usually clear. Aye, Sea Turtles
Nyxium Dwarfers Mining Guild 0	Posted - 2015.06.15 20:12:35 - [53] - Quote Everything's prepared for you in a themepark MMO, all of the rides are predetermined for your fun and entertainment, all you have to do is show up and play your part and let the rollercoasters and log flume game mechanics do it all for you. If you like to be dazzled and thrilled, then fine, go for it, it's your custom they get. In a sandbox MMO like EVE, you make your own fate. I know which of the two I prefer, being here grants a hint of my choice.
DaReaper Net 7 2216	Posted - 2015.06.15 22:03:12 - [54] - Quote Webvan wrote: DaReaper wrote: its as close to a theme park area as eve has, close to it... well you could say the same thing about mining then, in fact more so because it's actually a static encounter. EVE is obviously not a pure sandbox, it's an openworld mmo (more reminiscent of a simulator e.g. sandbox-simulator er or simulated-sandbox). Openworld shouldn't be confused with themepark, design mechanics tend to be a bit different. The only pure sandbox mmo I can think of is secondlife. I still have an old book of Disney tickets btw nice. i wish i did. sigh heh OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
Harry Forever SpaceJunkys 1180	Posted - 2015.06.16 20:11:55 - [55] - Quote Deimos UK wrote: As above. I keep seeing this reference in forum replies on various topics.. Can someone give me the idiot-friendly translation please. Thank you its out there in nullsec, people made a themepark with all their friends... they all go blue with eachother to assure they are not disturbed by killing NPCs, however from time to time somebody really evil from highsec jumps out there to crash their party and blast the **** out of them... this makes them really sad and thats why they keep telling everybody "leave alone our themepark, meh" YouTube
Nicolai Serkanner Jebediah Kerman's Junkyard and Spaceship Parts Co. Brave Collective 416	Posted - 2015.06.16 21:19:46 - [56] - Quote Three pages and nobody has mentioned it's just a roadsign
Mikhem Taxisk Unlimited 282	Posted - 2015.06.16 21:53:54 - [57] - Quote Immediately when I saw this thread I checked Urbandictionary.com and found this: "In a video game, a scripted event with limited interaction, also known as a "rail shooter" sequence. " I suppose theme park is like roller coaster ride where everyone goes the same trip on rail and sandbox game you decide what you want to do. Sandbox game in Urbandictionary.com: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=sandbox+game Theme park in Urbandictionary.com: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Theme+Park Mikhem Link library to EVE music songs.
Hippinse University of Caille Gallente Federation 77	Posted - 2015.06.16 21:54:44 - [58] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: It's a kind of insidious, "Borg-Like" Carebearism where people can't just go play games that make them happy, they need to go into games they don't like (made by companies they can't stand) and make them CONFORM. And it does not work in reverse, when I play Star Trek Online you don't get legions of people asking for 'more sandbox', you get people asking for more theme park ("When are we going to see higher level caps!!!"). The people on the reverse side don't always communicate with devs and ASK for this, I'll grant you that. They usually just take/do what they want and then deal with the consequences, if any. There is no shortage of people doing this in any game, in any genre.
Eugene Kerner TunDraGon That Escalated Quickly. 1613	Posted - 2015.06.16 22:14:40 - [59] - Quote Deimos UK wrote: As above. I keep seeing this reference in forum replies on various topics.. Can someone give me the idiot-friendly translation please. Thank you If you want a explaination..... <-----theme park is that way. TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] " -á CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a di++k joke."-áRobin Williams - RIP

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