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Stealth Bombers (Still Unfittable)

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
HotSeat White Wolves Defence league The OSS	Posted - 2006.11.22 16:02:00 - [31] Thanks Tuxford, Simply stating it is an issue, and that you are working on a solution, goes a long way mate I look forward to using my Manti again soon.
Ranger 1 Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.11.22 16:21:00 - [32] I've gotten a lot of mileage out of stealth bombers, however I must admit Kali had me worried about their future. I would LOVE a hint as to what is planned for them. I would be quite happy if one of the improvements would be an even larger boost to cloaked speed. It would emphasise a very unique role of the ship. Although, honestly, that bonus would probably be more approprate for Covert Ops frigates. Still, the ability to get out to your desired attack range quickly (and bust sniper points) does work well for the Stealths. And no, I don't think they should be able to warp cloaked.
Mallakk	Posted - 2006.11.22 19:22:00 - [33] Thanks for the message tuxford, we are happy some people think the little uggly ducks need some love
Butter Dog ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.22 19:44:00 - [34] Originally by: Parallax Error Originally by: Tuxford We have something special planned for stealth bombers so you have to show patience about them a little bit longer. Citadel Torpedo's please! lol that would be hilarious yes please :)
Jazen Caldari Shadow Tribe Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2006.11.22 20:21:00 - [35] Three cheers for a dev post finally!!! While I'd love to know what is planned...or more importantly WHEN it will be implemented (good plans mean nothing if they're pushed out too far, you could kill the ship totally if it isn't put in quickly enough), I'm just happy enough at this point that the dev's actually took notice finally. Hopefully the love that SB's will get will address the +50% issue AS WELL AS the overall design of the ships and their role. -Semper Fi-
Imode Band of Builders Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.11.22 20:40:00 - [36] Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: Parallax Error Originally by: Tuxford We have something special planned for stealth bombers so you have to show patience about them a little bit longer. Citadel Torpedo's please! lol that would be hilarious yes please :) Pff, why stop there. Help me squeeze this Aurora Ominae on my Nemesis. ____________________________ Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content - Cortes
Mallakk	Posted - 2006.11.22 20:40:00 - [37] Dont be in hurry to get the stats and infos... the early you'll get them, the more the price will grow up...
Kharakan Amarr GREY COUNCIL Breidablik	Posted - 2006.11.22 20:44:00 - [38] ***** YES Originally by:** Joshua Foiritain (to Dark Shikari) HAHAHA I KNOW YOUR ACCOUUNT NAME TIME TO DIE this signature space is claimed in the name of eris, haha I got to him first. neeneer
THX 1138 Minmatar D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2006.11.22 20:51:00 - [39] Originally by: Tuxford We have something special planned for stealth bombers so you have to show patience about them a little bit longer. Tux, what's your address for a case of Tesco's special Xmas champagne ----- Individuality is underrated
xphreakx Caldari Solar Storm Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.11.22 23:37:00 - [40] I'd go for Citadel torps as long as SB's get a special launcher that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. Spending 2x 50m on a pair of citadel launchers is about as insane as fitting a cloaker on a SB at their current prices. ----------- -phreak Freespace2 Source Code Project Singularity: Because I could never afford a Cerberus on TQ.

alpheon Ars Caelestis Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.22 23:52:00 - [41] Originally by: HotSeat Thanks Tuxford, Simply stating it is an issue, and that you are working on a solution, goes a long way mate I look forward to using my Manti again soon. indeed, while I might not agree with every decision, its a big help to me (and I'm sure others) to simply hear you say "hey, we hear you, we're working on it". Thanks.
Darpz Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2006.11.23 17:10:00 - [42] give them all 3-4 Launcher hard points. creat a new Launcher that can load one citadel torp at a time, with about 30-45 seconds to reload another cargo bay enough to hold 30 or so torps. solo they won't be all that great since cit torps aren't that hot on an unpainted target. mix in 2-3 of these with a rapier and you got something though
Liara Tyrix	Posted - 2006.11.24 02:18:00 - [43] Originally by: Darpz give them all 3-4 Launcher hard points. creat a new Launcher that can load one citadel torp at a time, with about 30-45 seconds to reload another cargo bay enough to hold 30 or so torps. solo they won't be all that great since cit torps aren't that hot on an unpainted target. mix in 2-3 of these with a rapier and you got something though Not a bad idea, at all. But instead of jiggering with the reload time from cargo, make them able to hold 5 torps maximum in each launcher but give them a 30 second base rate of fire. That'd do the same thing as you propose - great for Alpha strikes in a large group, not so good after that. Even better, this new type of launcher might conceivably find some application in other ships. I really like the idea of frig-ganking larger ships from a cloaked ambush. Excuse me while I go and buy a stealth bomber just in case. null
xxWhistler Elite United Corp Antigo Dominion	Posted - 2006.11.24 05:33:00 - [44] I'd be willing to bet based on Tux's most recent blog (specifically where he says the Kali hp boost is to permit more complicated combat mechanics - subsystem targetting, heat, etc.) that the SBs will be much better at specifically striking subsystems than other ships. I think that role would be perfect. Instead of being a heavy hitter, you get to be a sniper accomplishing really tactical precise goals. I hope that makes sense.. I've been into the beer again
Mallakk	Posted - 2006.11.24 07:07:00 - [45] In order to do this properly you need : A) to have missiles fast enough or your target will be far away before you hit his "subsystem" B) be still alive when your missile finally land directly in your target engine. Actually you cant be any of those in a bomber. Decloak or warp out = "a wrecked ship with a pod next to it".
Gaogan Gallente Solar Storm Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.11.24 07:24:00 - [46] Why is it that you guys seem to think stealth bombers are supposed to be solo insta wtfbbqpwn machines? Oh no, a solo frigate size ship that can cloak and choose its battles can't insta pop people. Try getting a gang of 3-5 and see how quickly you take down an unsuspecting bs. Maybe even have an inty or something to tackle, or a recon to jam or sensor dampen.
Gigi Barbagrigia Latent Appliance Fetishists	Posted - 2006.11.24 07:56:00 - [47] Originally by: Tuxford We have something special planned for stealth bombers so you have to show patience about them a little bit longer. There you go
Merin Ryskin Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.24 08:31:00 - [48] Originally by: Gaogan Why is it that you guys seem to think stealth bombers are supposed to be solo insta wtfbbqpwn machines? Oh no, a solo frigate size ship that can cloak and choose its battles can't insta pop people. Try getting a gang of 3-5 and see how quickly you take down an unsuspecting bs. Maybe even have an inty or something to tackle, or a recon to jam or sensor dampen. The problem with this logic should be obvious: think about how quickly you'd take down an unsuspcting BS with 3-5 battleships of your own. Far faster than with the stealth bombers. And right now with cloaked ships in local and inability to warp in while cloaked, the 3-5 battleships are just as stealthy. In other words, not stealthy at all.
Tachy	Posted - 2006.11.24 09:45:00 - [49] Originally by: Gaogan Why is it that you guys seem to think stealth bombers are supposed to be solo insta wtfbbqpwn machines? Oh no, a solo frigate size ship that can cloak and choose its battles can't insta pop people. Try getting a gang of 3-5 and see how quickly you take down an unsuspecting bs. Maybe even have an inty or something to tackle, or a recon to jam or sensor dampen. Look at the usual targets of the stealth bombers after the HP change and tell me how the bomber is supposed to kill any ship where the pilot would not die to any other ship too (like being afk or tackled good). The bomber would just go boom before he's able to do what he's meant to do even against T1 frigs - or the target just leaves the scene. --==*-- The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing. by Sharkbait \| 2006.09.20
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.24 10:00:00 - [50] Originally by: Tachy Originally by: Gaogan Why is it that you guys seem to think stealth bombers are supposed to be solo insta wtfbbqpwn machines? Oh no, a solo frigate size ship that can cloak and choose its battles can't insta pop people. Try getting a gang of 3-5 and see how quickly you take down an unsuspecting bs. Maybe even have an inty or something to tackle, or a recon to jam or sensor dampen. Look at the usual targets of the stealth bombers after the HP change and tell me how the bomber is supposed to kill any ship where the pilot would not die to any other ship too (like being afk or tackled good). The bomber would just go boom before he's able to do what he's meant to do even against T1 frigs - or the target just leaves the scene. It's not that stealth bombers are useless exactly. I mean, 100dps at 150km isn't all that sloppy for a frigate sized ship. You're quite correct that in a wolfpack 5-10 stealth bombers are quite deadly. Mix it up with ewar and stuff, and they do some bad things. The problem is, that almost anything you can think of to do with your stealth bomber, you'd be better off flying ... something else. Indeed you are correct, that 5 stealth bombers would wtfpwn another ship. Then again, so would 5 battleships. Or 5 cruisers. Or hell, even 5 kestrels. For the same money I can pimp fit a rocket kestrel and do >100dps on it, albeit at a shorter range (I do have to tackle after all) and still have enough isks to buy myself a Raven for when I get bored of that. At current market prices the fittings to squeeze on a manticore are excessive - it's pretty much essential to be using named gear, and the price of improved cloaks are also pretty sick. I've tried, really I have, to find _something_ that the manticore (and stealth bombers in general) are worth using for. About the best I've come up with is the 'stealth tackler' - decloak and scramble a ship immediately is faster than anything else can do. Of course, that does involve rather a lot of sitting and waiting, because they see you if you warp in or out. You can of course, RSD and cloak cycle, which gives you a measure of 'not dying' but ... well you're also not scrambling either, so they can just warp off. Unless of course, you're using offgrid bookmarks, and just slowboat 300km to the gate whilst cloaked of course. Even then, an interdictor can do this, although the webbing is a little harder :). It's not that the manticore is _bad_ exactly, it's just the case that in almost any situation where you're flying one, you'd be better off flying something else. It'd be both more effective and cheaper.

Ithildin Gallente The Corporation The Corporation Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.24 10:07:00 - [51] Originally by: Udyr Vulpayne Originally by: Ithildin They can actually scale turrets on a by-ship-basis. from a technical point of view yes. however that would not really improve immersion and look totaly rediculous. for example you would get a quad 3500mm siege artillery battery stuck on a ship that would be smaller than the same gun fitted on a dread. oversized missiles work fine because you dont see the launchers. oversized turrets for more than 1 size above simply dont fit on the model. No no. They can scale them. Make them smaller. Tell the model to take turret A and make turret A one tenth the size. It's what accidentally happened on the Rokh, I believe. Half of the turrets accidentally ended up looking cruiser-sized. - EVE is sick.
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation The Corporation Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.24 10:09:00 - [52] Originally by: Gigi Barbagrigia Originally by: Tuxford We have something special planned for stealth bombers so you have to show patience about them a little bit longer. There you go Ninja looter? - EVE is sick.
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.24 10:12:00 - [53] Whats with the topic change? Something good happened? Spread the joy! -----------------------------------------------
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.24 10:25:00 - [54] Originally by: Patch86 Whats with the topic change? Something good happened? Spread the joy! Manticores at least on SiSi have more grid, and I think a better grid reduction on cruise launchers. So I can fit 3 cruises with skills at 4, without needing an MAPC. I would assume the other stealth bombers have the same edge. Actually I can now fit 3 arby cruise launchers and 2 BCS IIs along with my covert cloak, although CPU does get a bit tight at that point :)
Pottsey Gallente Acme Shipping Inc	Posted - 2006.11.24 12:58:00 - [55] ôLook at the usual targets of the stealth bombers after the HP change and tell me how the bomber is supposed to kill any ship where the pilot would not die to any other ship too (like being afk or tackled good).ö The answer is passive shield tank. It had a good tank before this change now with the extra PG you can get some real nice tanks. Passive shield tanking guide click here
Seraphim Io Caldari Battlestars Imperium Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.24 13:19:00 - [56] Originally by: Tuxford We have something special planned for stealth bombers so you have to show patience about them a little bit longer. yeah a warp while cloaked option with an additional launcer for all the ships or a hidden rof+dmg bonus would ungimp these ships im my opinion Originally by: Koshmarnaya Akula Nothing says "stealth" like oh look a stealth bomber warped in!
Asariasha Caldari Cataclysm Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.11.24 13:42:00 - [57] Edited by: Asariasha on 24/11/2006 13:46:23 Sorry, but I dont think that a good passive shieldtank solves the problem of stealthbombers role. This ship is not supposed to tank. First of all you need do give the StealthBombers a specific role, which still seems not to be given. However in theory it should be a frigate class high-dmg dealer to instakill tech1 Frigs, to engage on cruiser szied vessels and in a Squad to maybe take out Battleships. All this has to happen out of the hidden state and this is where we come to the following problems: 1) More firepower is needed due to Kali HP boost. This boost should be balanced so that you don't have a god-mode ship. Suggestion: 50%HP boost means you need 50% more firepower for a stealth bomber to be as worse as it is atm. Therefor should be changed the launcher layout to... Manticore - 5 cruise launcher all other - 4 cruise launcher --> 4/5 launcher will mean a threat to Frigate sized ships, while they still have the option to warp off incoming missiles. Also, this means a threat to BS/Cruiser sized ships until you are flying in a StealthBomber gang. Due to the higher firepower and grid, the number of medium-slot modules should be lowered to 2 for each stealth bomber, disabling them to fit passive shield tanks, but leaving them 2 slots for sensor upgrades/dampener. Additional there should be added a malus for StealthBombers in terms of fitting plates. Something like: fitting plates decreases the velocity, agility of stealth bombers by 75% and greatly increases their signature radius by lets say 200%. --> You have great offensive powers, but if you try to tank you will be ganked 2) Currently targets for StealthBombers have the option to escape even before the StealthBomber reaches his target due to Kalis implemented standing within local chat and the fact that you will show up in your targets overview when you come out of warp: Suggestion: Give StealthBombers the ability to fit a CovertOPs cloaking device. This would somehow give us a picture of a Klingon Bird of Prey. 3) Currently StealthBombers haven't got enough capacitor to be involved in fast moving squads. Fitting a small capacitor battery lets you warp up to around 50AU. Without, it might be 30-40AU which is not very much. Suggestion: Double the capacitor by slightly reducing its recharge rate. Greets Asa
Tachy	Posted - 2006.11.24 13:51:00 - [58] The same effect could be reached by changing the hidden warp energy cost variable. The short warp range is a design decision. Well, let's see what thursday's patch going to bring for us. --==*-- The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing. by Sharkbait \| 2006.09.20
Tachy	Posted - 2006.11.24 17:23:00 - [59] Maneuverable is one attribute I'd never think of in relation to those stealth bombers. --==*-- The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing. by Sharkbait \| 2006.09.20
Jazen Caldari Shadow Tribe Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2006.11.24 18:07:00 - [60] I seriously hope you manticore pilots aren't jumping for joy over being able to fit something else besides a power core in your lows....THAT DOESNT SOLVE THE ISSUES. So wow...you've got two bcu's down there now...you still won't do near the damage you did pre-kali 1. Warping while cloaked isn't a fix either...you still won't have the cap to keep up with a gang...you're relegated to sitting at a gate praying for someone without instas. Oh and lord help you if that person decides to come after you instead of trying to make it to the gate..you won't pop him before he's on your butt. The entire ship type needs a redesign and for the Dev's to pick a supposed role, let us know what that role is, and then design the ship around it. ITs always seemed like the dev's just threw the ship type together and gave it to us without really know what it was supposed to do. So if there's a Tux out there...give us a run down of what the changes will be coming the 28th for stealth bombers. I know there's more than just a few of us looking to see if we'll be retiring our bombers after the 28th, especially if a lone fitting boost is all they're getting. -Semper Fi-



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