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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
ChronoLynx
Caldari Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2006.11.21 18:35:00 -
[1]
Edited by: ChronoLynx on 21/11/2006 18:41:15 Edited by: ChronoLynx on 21/11/2006 18:38:57 Exhibit A http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=355865 and Exhibit B http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=401362
Fix them for Kali Please! Make these ships usable for some sort of purpose because as it stands they are usless bar the manticore and it dosn't have enough powergrid without a 'MAU' to fit more three launchers a cloak and maybe a sensor booster, maybe 2 with cov ops 5... The nemesis can fit 2 Launchers a cloak and a sensor booster, that is all...
(Skill used when showing exhibits are Engineering 5 and Adv. Wep. Upgrades 5)
Face it, they are broke and fix them... and I don't care who does fix them, just do it... |
ChronoLynx
Caldari Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2006.11.21 18:41:00 -
[2]
Exhibit C Manticore and Exhibit D Nemesis |
LoKesh
Amarr InQuest Ascension Vertigo Coalition
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Posted - 2006.11.21 22:33:00 -
[3]
Bombers are skill intensive ships. Everything you need will fit on a manticore with covert ops to 5.
Fitting isn't the problem. They could use a damage bonus (they were underpowered before the HP boost) and possibly another 'hidden' bonus to explosion velocity.
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Risien Drogonne
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Posted - 2006.11.21 22:36:00 -
[4]
The HP change in Kali really messed with these ships in particular. They could use help. Right now I can't think of a single reason I'd ever fly one.
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Elvarien
Caldari The Night's Watch THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
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Posted - 2006.11.21 22:45:00 -
[5]
heh just trian up to fly them they are as mentioned before skill intensive. for all that skilltraining after the 50% hp boost you aint getting a lot back for it as the poor ship has been rendered a lot less efective intentional or not intentional [Hey the devs aint omnipotent.] It could use a damage boost. >----
Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes |
Kai Lae
Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.11.21 23:19:00 -
[6]
Originally by: LoKesh Bombers are skill intensive ships. Everything you need will fit on a manticore with covert ops to 5.
Fitting isn't the problem. They could use a damage bonus (they were underpowered before the HP boost) and possibly another 'hidden' bonus to explosion velocity.
No amount of skills will make the nemesis a good ship. AWU4 + 2 cruise launchers = 2.5 grid free to fill 8 slots. Of course, w/ AWU 5 it is better, but no one should have to get AWU 5 so that they can arm their ship w/ 75mm railguns.
Raptor and Ares Fix |
Quilan Ziller
Gallente Children of Azathoth Brotherhood Of Steel
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Posted - 2006.11.21 23:35:00 -
[7]
Yeah... As have been discussed in multiple threads before, SBs as they are now have a lot of problems, and are almost useless. Hardly anybody even flies them on TQ. After the HP boost they won't be a threat even to haulers... Tux, please give them more damage and make them easier to fit! Give them at least a fighting chance of killing a T1 cruiser!
______________________________________________________________ Of course the game is rigged. Don't let that stop you--if you don't play, you can't win. - Robert Heinlein |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.21 23:47:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Risien Drogonne The HP change in Kali really messed with these ships in particular. They could use help. Right now I can't think of a single reason I'd ever fly one.
I'm with you on the 'can't think of a reason' but I'm not sure what Kali has to do with it :)
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Inairin
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Posted - 2006.11.22 00:19:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Kai Lae
Originally by: LoKesh Bombers are skill intensive ships. Everything you need will fit on a manticore with covert ops to 5.
Fitting isn't the problem. They could use a damage bonus (they were underpowered before the HP boost) and possibly another 'hidden' bonus to explosion velocity.
No amount of skills will make the nemesis a good ship. AWU4 + 2 cruise launchers = 2.5 grid free to fill 8 slots. Of course, w/ AWU 5 it is better, but no one should have to get AWU 5 so that they can arm their ship w/ 75mm railguns.
are you really sure about this? because last time i poked my nose onto testserver i managed to fit 2x t2 cruise, 2 damage mods, cloak, 3x sensor boosters, then i ran out of CPU. nemesis were having 38 powergrid and t2 launchers required less than 20 grid. mind you i only got engineering 4 and no AWU too.
could anyone go in and verify the status of them?
Anyway, they need something else. this fix(if it's not just a test server change) should've been how they were pre-kali, some more candy for post-kali would be nice.
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THX 1138
Minmatar D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2006.11.22 00:32:00 -
[10]
Originally by: James Lyrus
Originally by: Risien Drogonne The HP change in Kali really messed with these ships in particular. They could use help. Right now I can't think of a single reason I'd ever fly one.
I'm with you on the 'can't think of a reason' but I'm not sure what Kali has to do with it :)
Well, Kali boosts the HP's of all ships. The only thing a bomber could do effectively was alpha-pop a frigate or webbed inty. Now it can't. So it has everything to do with Kali.
-*-*-*-*-
Individuality is underrated |
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Darknesss
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2006.11.22 00:32:00 -
[11]
i flew the nemesis once, it died, i never flew it again. I think they need a boost to nearly everything to be good, boost to cpu/pg, make them covert ops compatible, and boost damage. When im flying my ceptor and i see one, i think cha ching $$$$ cloaking device for meee
Make em better!
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Royaldo
KVA Noble Inc. THE H0RDE
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Posted - 2006.11.22 00:40:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Inairin
Originally by: Kai Lae
Originally by: LoKesh Bombers are skill intensive ships. Everything you need will fit on a manticore with covert ops to 5.
Fitting isn't the problem. They could use a damage bonus (they were underpowered before the HP boost) and possibly another 'hidden' bonus to explosion velocity.
No amount of skills will make the nemesis a good ship. AWU4 + 2 cruise launchers = 2.5 grid free to fill 8 slots. Of course, w/ AWU 5 it is better, but no one should have to get AWU 5 so that they can arm their ship w/ 75mm railguns.
are you really sure about this? because last time i poked my nose onto testserver i managed to fit 2x t2 cruise, 2 damage mods, cloak, 3x sensor boosters, then i ran out of CPU. nemesis were having 38 powergrid and t2 launchers required less than 20 grid. mind you i only got engineering 4 and no AWU too.
could anyone go in and verify the status of them?
Anyway, they need something else. this fix(if it's not just a test server change) should've been how they were pre-kali, some more candy for post-kali would be nice.
when was this?
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ChronoLynx
Caldari Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2006.11.22 01:11:00 -
[13]
Well, my prayers have been answered, got onto the test server and checked it out, they increased the nemeis pwg and the bonus to pwg reduction for the stealth bombers, lock me now please!
Elitest Carebear with Fangs and Claws |
Pottsey
Gallente Acme Shipping Inc
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Posted - 2006.11.22 07:19:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Pottsey on 22/11/2006 07:19:55 Edited by: Pottsey on 22/11/2006 07:18:51 "The nemesis can fit 2 Launchers a cloak and a sensor booster, that is all..." I dont see to have a problem fitting that and a tank on the live server. Yes they need a boost but its not as bad as people say.
EDIT: Just noticed someone say they have a pg boost neat I can fit an even stronger tank. Passive shield tanking guide click here |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.22 13:59:00 -
[15]
Originally by: THX 1138
Originally by: James Lyrus
Originally by: Risien Drogonne The HP change in Kali really messed with these ships in particular. They could use help. Right now I can't think of a single reason I'd ever fly one.
I'm with you on the 'can't think of a reason' but I'm not sure what Kali has to do with it :)
Well, Kali boosts the HP's of all ships. The only thing a bomber could do effectively was alpha-pop a frigate or webbed inty. Now it can't. So it has everything to do with Kali.
IMO that role is so extremely marginal that the stealth bomber was pretty much unusable. Or perhaps not so much unusable, but more the case that in almost every situation you were flying on, you'd have been better off in another ship.
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Tuxford
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Posted - 2006.11.22 14:14:00 -
[16]
We have something special planned for stealth bombers so you have to show patience about them a little bit longer. _______________ |
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Tuxford
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Posted - 2006.11.22 14:15:00 -
[17]
Originally by: James Lyrus
Originally by: THX 1138
Originally by: James Lyrus
Originally by: Risien Drogonne The HP change in Kali really messed with these ships in particular. They could use help. Right now I can't think of a single reason I'd ever fly one.
I'm with you on the 'can't think of a reason' but I'm not sure what Kali has to do with it :)
Well, Kali boosts the HP's of all ships. The only thing a bomber could do effectively was alpha-pop a frigate or webbed inty. Now it can't. So it has everything to do with Kali.
IMO that role is so extremely marginal that the stealth bomber was pretty much unusable. Or perhaps not so much unusable, but more the case that in almost every situation you were flying on, you'd have been better off in another ship.
Right I agree, it needs something more. _______________ |
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Parallax Error
Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.22 14:35:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Tuxford We have something special planned for stealth bombers so you have to show patience about them a little bit longer.
Citadel Torpedo's please!
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LC Sulla
BGG Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.22 14:39:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Tuxford We have something special planned for stealth bombers so you have to show patience about them a little bit longer.
Drop us a hint. Just a little hint (like should I be selling it or keeping it... should I be hoarding t2 sieges...) .
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Berrik Radhok
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2006.11.22 14:41:00 -
[20]
Fix Stealth Bombers to be able to use two of their racial XL turret (XL launcher in Caldari's case) with hidden tracking bonuses/exp velocity bonuses to make them useful against battleship sized targets. They'll get a huge punch then and be actually worth using.
Originally by: Khavi Vetali
Oh don't worry, the goons are just as suicidal with their battleships as they are with their frigates.
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Kai Lae
Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.11.22 14:54:00 -
[21]
For those asking to use XL weapons, you might first try to use them against something smaller than a dread to find out that they don't work very well unless you're painting the target to, oh, the size of the sun.
Raptor and Ares Fix |
Udyr Vulpayne
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2006.11.22 15:00:00 -
[22]
- xl sized weapons would be a bit harsh on the training side for a frigate. - xl sized turrets would bring a little size related problem with them if you try and stick their model on a frig.
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Bombcrater
DAB RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.22 15:02:00 -
[23]
Siege launchers with a 100% per level damage bonus. Job done |
Ithildin
Gallente The Corporation The Corporation Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.22 15:07:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Udyr Vulpayne
- xl sized weapons would be a bit harsh on the training side for a frigate. - xl sized turrets would bring a little size related problem with them if you try and stick their model on a frig.
They can actually scale turrets on a by-ship-basis. - EVE is sick. |
Ricky Baby
The Kennels
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Posted - 2006.11.22 15:20:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Ithildin
Originally by: Udyr Vulpayne
- xl sized weapons would be a bit harsh on the training side for a frigate. - xl sized turrets would bring a little size related problem with them if you try and stick their model on a frig.
They can actually scale turrets on a by-ship-basis.
erm can we have the turrets on the side of the thron increased a bit - i mean they look like **** peashooters! -------------------------------------
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Udyr Vulpayne
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2006.11.22 15:20:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Ithildin
They can actually scale turrets on a by-ship-basis.
from a technical point of view yes. however that would not really improve immersion and look totaly rediculous. for example you would get a quad 3500mm siege artillery battery stuck on a ship that would be smaller than the same gun fitted on a dread. oversized missiles work fine because you dont see the launchers. oversized turrets for more than 1 size above simply dont fit on the model.
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Fi T'Zeh
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.11.22 15:39:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Parallax Error
Originally by: Tuxford We have something special planned for stealth bombers so you have to show patience about them a little bit longer.
Citadel Torpedo's please!
I approve of this statement. ....
Real men use blasters |
Orrin Danestarr
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Posted - 2006.11.22 15:45:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Fi T'Zeh
Originally by: Parallax Error
Originally by: Tuxford We have something special planned for stealth bombers so you have to show patience about them a little bit longer.
Citadel Torpedo's please!
I approve of this statement.
Well that would be an interesting suprise....
Hey, look a stealth bombed is attacking us, how cute.....
BBBOOOMMMM!!!!
WTF!!????? "Imagination is the key that unlocks the door." - ME |
Yamaeda
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Posted - 2006.11.22 15:50:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Tuxford We have something special planned for stealth bombers so you have to show patience about them a little bit longer.
Like adding 1 launcher to them all and 25ish grid? That's make the Caldari a 4 cruise launcher, like kestrel on steroids++ and Purifier a 3 cruise launcher ship like an Inquisitor on steroids.
That actually sounds like an idea. :)
/Y ---------- It's great being Amarr, ain't it? |
Harisdrop
Gallente ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.11.22 16:01:00 -
[30]
have them able to fit a probe launcher!!!
Have a large cargohold
Originally by: Dwight Hammerhead . Just because Kali is already in testing. If CCP were actually concerned about what ppl think they would of opened it up for discussion.
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HotSeat
White Wolves Defence league The OSS
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Posted - 2006.11.22 16:02:00 -
[31]
Thanks Tuxford, Simply stating it is an issue, and that you are working on a solution, goes a long way mate
I look forward to using my Manti again soon.
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Ranger 1
Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.11.22 16:21:00 -
[32]
I've gotten a lot of mileage out of stealth bombers, however I must admit Kali had me worried about their future.
I would LOVE a hint as to what is planned for them.
I would be quite happy if one of the improvements would be an even larger boost to cloaked speed. It would emphasise a very unique role of the ship. Although, honestly, that bonus would probably be more approprate for Covert Ops frigates. Still, the ability to get out to your desired attack range quickly (and bust sniper points) does work well for the Stealths.
And no, I don't think they should be able to warp cloaked.
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Mallakk
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Posted - 2006.11.22 19:22:00 -
[33]
Thanks for the message tuxford, we are happy some people think the little uggly ducks need some love
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Butter Dog
ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.22 19:44:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Parallax Error
Originally by: Tuxford We have something special planned for stealth bombers so you have to show patience about them a little bit longer.
Citadel Torpedo's please!
lol
that would be hilarious
yes please :)
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Jazen
Caldari Shadow Tribe Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2006.11.22 20:21:00 -
[35]
Three cheers for a dev post finally!!!
While I'd love to know what is planned...or more importantly WHEN it will be implemented (good plans mean nothing if they're pushed out too far, you could kill the ship totally if it isn't put in quickly enough), I'm just happy enough at this point that the dev's actually took notice finally.
Hopefully the love that SB's will get will address the +50% issue AS WELL AS the overall design of the ships and their role. -Semper Fi- |
Imode
Band of Builders Inc. Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.11.22 20:40:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Butter Dog
Originally by: Parallax Error
Originally by: Tuxford We have something special planned for stealth bombers so you have to show patience about them a little bit longer.
Citadel Torpedo's please!
lol
that would be hilarious
yes please :)
Pff, why stop there. Help me squeeze this Aurora Ominae on my Nemesis. ____________________________ Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content - Cortes |
Mallakk
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Posted - 2006.11.22 20:40:00 -
[37]
Dont be in hurry to get the stats and infos... the early you'll get them, the more the price will grow up...
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Kharakan
Amarr GREY COUNCIL Breidablik
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Posted - 2006.11.22 20:44:00 -
[38]
******* YES
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain (to Dark Shikari) HAHAHA I KNOW YOUR ACCOUUNT NAME TIME TO DIE
this signature space is claimed in the name of eris, haha I got to him first. neeneer
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THX 1138
Minmatar D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2006.11.22 20:51:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Tuxford We have something special planned for stealth bombers so you have to show patience about them a little bit longer.
Tux, what's your address for a case of Tesco's special Xmas champagne
-*-*-*-*-
Individuality is underrated |
xphreakx
Caldari Solar Storm Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.22 23:37:00 -
[40]
I'd go for Citadel torps as long as SB's get a special launcher that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. Spending 2x 50m on a pair of citadel launchers is about as insane as fitting a cloaker on a SB at their current prices. ----------- -phreak
Freespace2 Source Code Project
Singularity: Because I could never afford a Cerberus on TQ. |
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alpheon
Ars Caelestis Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.22 23:52:00 -
[41]
Originally by: HotSeat Thanks Tuxford, Simply stating it is an issue, and that you are working on a solution, goes a long way mate
I look forward to using my Manti again soon.
indeed, while I might not agree with every decision, its a big help to me (and I'm sure others) to simply hear you say "hey, we hear you, we're working on it".
Thanks.
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Darpz
Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2006.11.23 17:10:00 -
[42]
give them all 3-4 Launcher hard points.
creat a new Launcher that can load one citadel torp at a time, with about 30-45 seconds to reload another cargo bay enough to hold 30 or so torps.
solo they won't be all that great since cit torps aren't that hot on an unpainted target. mix in 2-3 of these with a rapier and you got something though
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Liara Tyrix
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Posted - 2006.11.24 02:18:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Darpz give them all 3-4 Launcher hard points.
creat a new Launcher that can load one citadel torp at a time, with about 30-45 seconds to reload another cargo bay enough to hold 30 or so torps.
solo they won't be all that great since cit torps aren't that hot on an unpainted target. mix in 2-3 of these with a rapier and you got something though
Not a bad idea, at all. But instead of jiggering with the reload time from cargo, make them able to hold 5 torps maximum in each launcher but give them a 30 second base rate of fire.
That'd do the same thing as you propose - great for Alpha strikes in a large group, not so good after that.
Even better, this new type of launcher might conceivably find some application in other ships.
I really like the idea of frig-ganking larger ships from a cloaked ambush. Excuse me while I go and buy a stealth bomber just in case. null
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xxWhistler
Elite United Corp Antigo Dominion
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Posted - 2006.11.24 05:33:00 -
[44]
I'd be willing to bet based on Tux's most recent blog (specifically where he says the Kali hp boost is to permit more complicated combat mechanics - subsystem targetting, heat, etc.) that the SBs will be much better at specifically striking subsystems than other ships. I think that role would be perfect. Instead of being a heavy hitter, you get to be a sniper accomplishing really tactical precise goals.
I hope that makes sense.. I've been into the beer again
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Mallakk
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Posted - 2006.11.24 07:07:00 -
[45]
In order to do this properly you need :
A) to have missiles fast enough or your target will be far away before you hit his "subsystem"
B) be still alive when your missile finally land directly in your target engine.
Actually you cant be any of those in a bomber. Decloak or warp out = "a wrecked ship with a pod next to it".
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Gaogan
Gallente Solar Storm Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.24 07:24:00 -
[46]
Why is it that you guys seem to think stealth bombers are supposed to be solo insta wtfbbqpwn machines? Oh no, a solo frigate size ship that can cloak and choose its battles can't insta pop people. Try getting a gang of 3-5 and see how quickly you take down an unsuspecting bs. Maybe even have an inty or something to tackle, or a recon to jam or sensor dampen.
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Gigi Barbagrigia
Latent Appliance Fetishists
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Posted - 2006.11.24 07:56:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Tuxford We have something special planned for stealth bombers so you have to show patience about them a little bit longer.
There you go
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Merin Ryskin
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.24 08:31:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Gaogan Why is it that you guys seem to think stealth bombers are supposed to be solo insta wtfbbqpwn machines? Oh no, a solo frigate size ship that can cloak and choose its battles can't insta pop people. Try getting a gang of 3-5 and see how quickly you take down an unsuspecting bs. Maybe even have an inty or something to tackle, or a recon to jam or sensor dampen.
The problem with this logic should be obvious: think about how quickly you'd take down an unsuspcting BS with 3-5 battleships of your own. Far faster than with the stealth bombers. And right now with cloaked ships in local and inability to warp in while cloaked, the 3-5 battleships are just as stealthy. In other words, not stealthy at all.
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Tachy
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Posted - 2006.11.24 09:45:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Gaogan Why is it that you guys seem to think stealth bombers are supposed to be solo insta wtfbbqpwn machines? Oh no, a solo frigate size ship that can cloak and choose its battles can't insta pop people. Try getting a gang of 3-5 and see how quickly you take down an unsuspecting bs. Maybe even have an inty or something to tackle, or a recon to jam or sensor dampen.
Look at the usual targets of the stealth bombers after the HP change and tell me how the bomber is supposed to kill any ship where the pilot would not die to any other ship too (like being afk or tackled good). The bomber would just go boom before he's able to do what he's meant to do even against T1 frigs - or the target just leaves the scene. --*=*=*--
The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing. by Sharkbait | 2006.09.20 |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.24 10:00:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Tachy
Originally by: Gaogan Why is it that you guys seem to think stealth bombers are supposed to be solo insta wtfbbqpwn machines? Oh no, a solo frigate size ship that can cloak and choose its battles can't insta pop people. Try getting a gang of 3-5 and see how quickly you take down an unsuspecting bs. Maybe even have an inty or something to tackle, or a recon to jam or sensor dampen.
Look at the usual targets of the stealth bombers after the HP change and tell me how the bomber is supposed to kill any ship where the pilot would not die to any other ship too (like being afk or tackled good). The bomber would just go boom before he's able to do what he's meant to do even against T1 frigs - or the target just leaves the scene.
It's not that stealth bombers are useless exactly. I mean, 100dps at 150km isn't all that sloppy for a frigate sized ship. You're quite correct that in a wolfpack 5-10 stealth bombers are quite deadly.
Mix it up with ewar and stuff, and they do some bad things.
The problem is, that almost anything you can think of to do with your stealth bomber, you'd be better off flying ... something else.
Indeed you are correct, that 5 stealth bombers would wtfpwn another ship. Then again, so would 5 battleships. Or 5 cruisers. Or hell, even 5 kestrels. For the same money I can pimp fit a rocket kestrel and do >100dps on it, albeit at a shorter range (I do have to tackle after all) and still have enough isks to buy myself a Raven for when I get bored of that.
At current market prices the fittings to squeeze on a manticore are excessive - it's pretty much essential to be using named gear, and the price of improved cloaks are also pretty sick.
I've tried, really I have, to find _something_ that the manticore (and stealth bombers in general) are worth using for. About the best I've come up with is the 'stealth tackler' - decloak and scramble a ship immediately is faster than anything else can do. Of course, that does involve rather a lot of sitting and waiting, because they see you if you warp in or out.
You can of course, RSD and cloak cycle, which gives you a measure of 'not dying' but ... well you're also not scrambling either, so they can just warp off.
Unless of course, you're using offgrid bookmarks, and just slowboat 300km to the gate whilst cloaked of course.
Even then, an interdictor can do this, although the webbing is a little harder :).
It's not that the manticore is _bad_ exactly, it's just the case that in almost any situation where you're flying one, you'd be better off flying something else. It'd be both more effective and cheaper.
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Ithildin
Gallente The Corporation The Corporation Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.24 10:07:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Udyr Vulpayne
Originally by: Ithildin They can actually scale turrets on a by-ship-basis.
from a technical point of view yes. however that would not really improve immersion and look totaly rediculous. for example you would get a quad 3500mm siege artillery battery stuck on a ship that would be smaller than the same gun fitted on a dread. oversized missiles work fine because you dont see the launchers. oversized turrets for more than 1 size above simply dont fit on the model.
No no. They can scale them. Make them smaller. Tell the model to take turret A and make turret A one tenth the size. It's what accidentally happened on the Rokh, I believe. Half of the turrets accidentally ended up looking cruiser-sized. - EVE is sick. |
Ithildin
Gallente The Corporation The Corporation Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.24 10:09:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Gigi Barbagrigia
Originally by: Tuxford We have something special planned for stealth bombers so you have to show patience about them a little bit longer.
There you go
Ninja looter? - EVE is sick. |
Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.24 10:12:00 -
[53]
Whats with the topic change? Something good happened?
Spread the joy! -----------------------------------------------
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.24 10:25:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Patch86 Whats with the topic change? Something good happened?
Spread the joy!
Manticores at least on SiSi have more grid, and I think a better grid reduction on cruise launchers. So I can fit 3 cruises with skills at 4, without needing an MAPC. I would assume the other stealth bombers have the same edge.
Actually I can now fit 3 arby cruise launchers and 2 BCS IIs along with my covert cloak, although CPU does get a bit tight at that point :)
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Pottsey
Gallente Acme Shipping Inc
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Posted - 2006.11.24 12:58:00 -
[55]
ôLook at the usual targets of the stealth bombers after the HP change and tell me how the bomber is supposed to kill any ship where the pilot would not die to any other ship too (like being afk or tackled good).ö The answer is passive shield tank. It had a good tank before this change now with the extra PG you can get some real nice tanks.
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
Seraphim Io
Caldari Battlestars Imperium Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.24 13:19:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Tuxford We have something special planned for stealth bombers so you have to show patience about them a little bit longer.
yeah a warp while cloaked option with an additional launcer for all the ships or a hidden rof+dmg bonus would ungimp these ships im my opinion
Originally by: Koshmarnaya Akula
Nothing says "stealth" like oh look a stealth bomber warped in!
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Asariasha
Caldari Cataclysm Enterprises Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.11.24 13:42:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Asariasha on 24/11/2006 13:46:23 Sorry, but I dont think that a good passive shieldtank solves the problem of stealthbombers role. This ship is not supposed to tank. First of all you need do give the StealthBombers a specific role, which still seems not to be given. However in theory it should be a frigate class high-dmg dealer to instakill tech1 Frigs, to engage on cruiser szied vessels and in a Squad to maybe take out Battleships. All this has to happen out of the hidden state and this is where we come to the following problems:
1) More firepower is needed due to Kali HP boost. This boost should be balanced so that you don't have a god-mode ship.
Suggestion: 50%HP boost means you need 50% more firepower for a stealth bomber to be as worse as it is atm. Therefor should be changed the launcher layout to...
Manticore - 5 cruise launcher all other - 4 cruise launcher
--> 4/5 launcher will mean a threat to Frigate sized ships, while they still have the option to warp off incoming missiles. Also, this means a threat to BS/Cruiser sized ships until you are flying in a StealthBomber gang. Due to the higher firepower and grid, the number of medium-slot modules should be lowered to 2 for each stealth bomber, disabling them to fit passive shield tanks, but leaving them 2 slots for sensor upgrades/dampener. Additional there should be added a malus for StealthBombers in terms of fitting plates. Something like: fitting plates decreases the velocity, agility of stealth bombers by 75% and greatly increases their signature radius by lets say 200%.
--> You have great offensive powers, but if you try to tank you will be ganked
2) Currently targets for StealthBombers have the option to escape even before the StealthBomber reaches his target due to Kalis implemented standing within local chat and the fact that you will show up in your targets overview when you come out of warp:
Suggestion: Give StealthBombers the ability to fit a CovertOPs cloaking device. This would somehow give us a picture of a Klingon Bird of Prey.
3) Currently StealthBombers haven't got enough capacitor to be involved in fast moving squads. Fitting a small capacitor battery lets you warp up to around 50AU. Without, it might be 30-40AU which is not very much.
Suggestion: Double the capacitor by slightly reducing its recharge rate.
Greets Asa
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Tachy
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Posted - 2006.11.24 13:51:00 -
[58]
The same effect could be reached by changing the hidden warp energy cost variable. The short warp range is a design decision.
Well, let's see what thursday's patch going to bring for us. --*=*=*--
The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing. by Sharkbait | 2006.09.20 |
Tachy
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Posted - 2006.11.24 17:23:00 -
[59]
Maneuverable is one attribute I'd never think of in relation to those stealth bombers. --*=*=*--
The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing. by Sharkbait | 2006.09.20 |
Jazen
Caldari Shadow Tribe Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2006.11.24 18:07:00 -
[60]
I seriously hope you manticore pilots aren't jumping for joy over being able to fit something else besides a power core in your lows....THAT DOESNT SOLVE THE ISSUES. So wow...you've got two bcu's down there now...you still won't do near the damage you did pre-kali 1.
Warping while cloaked isn't a fix either...you still won't have the cap to keep up with a gang...you're relegated to sitting at a gate praying for someone without instas. Oh and lord help you if that person decides to come after you instead of trying to make it to the gate..you won't pop him before he's on your butt.
The entire ship type needs a redesign and for the Dev's to pick a supposed role, let us know what that role is, and then design the ship around it. ITs always seemed like the dev's just threw the ship type together and gave it to us without really know what it was supposed to do.
So if there's a Tux out there...give us a run down of what the changes will be coming the 28th for stealth bombers. I know there's more than just a few of us looking to see if we'll be retiring our bombers after the 28th, especially if a lone fitting boost is all they're getting. -Semper Fi- |
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Hertford
Ars Caelestis Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.24 18:24:00 -
[61]
Whilst warping cloaked would be a really nice feature, I cannot see that happening without a Covert Ops Cloaking Device II.
And given the current market on TQ, would I strap a 70mil module onto a ship that will see combat? Possibly not.
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DeODokktor
Caldari Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium
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Posted - 2006.11.24 18:48:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Tuxford
We have something special planned for stealth bombers so you have to show patience about them a little bit longer.~~
~~it needs something more.
Stealth MOdules? :) ??
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Selnix
Gallente Master Miners
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Posted - 2006.11.24 20:09:00 -
[63]
Quote: So if there's a Tux out there...give us a run down of what the changes will be coming the 28th for stealth bombers. I know there's more than just a few of us looking to see if we'll be retiring our bombers after the 28th, especially if a lone fitting boost is all they're getting
Since no changes have been on the test server yet, I would expect the stealth bomber changes to not happen until Kali 2.
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Traders Soul
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Posted - 2006.11.24 20:28:00 -
[64]
hmm well, at least something done about them would be cool, i might even dig up the bpo out of some dustpit refuse bin in my hanger
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Mallakk
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Posted - 2006.11.24 21:15:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Selnix Since no changes have been on the test server yet, I would expect the stealth bomber changes to not happen until Kali 2.
He said to be patient... that may mean a year...
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Jazen
Caldari Shadow Tribe Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2006.11.25 02:31:00 -
[66]
Well the longer they take, the more of a chance the ships are going to be useless and go unused. I think we've all provided more than enough feedback for what we've been lacking in these ships and explaining how the +hp%'s are going to make us even more useless. -Semper Fi- |
Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2006.11.25 06:54:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Tuxford We have something special planned for stealth bombers so you have to show patience about them a little bit longer.
Please, please, PLEASE make them 4-launcher Torpedo ships, with heavy missile explosion radius, and you will be loved long time.
Actually, for them to be as effective in Kali as they are (rofl) right now, you'd have to change them from cruise missiles to Torps, the extra launcher would just be for much needed alpha increases.
Still, a 10% dmg -10% ROFL per level for those 4 torp launchers would RULE. Devastating alphastrike, and they'd cripple or wipeout targets, just as you'd expect a bomber to do.
Oh, and let them fit covops cloaks please, the current setup is by no means 'stealth'.
Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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Dred'Pirate Jesus
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2006.11.25 07:02:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Tuxford We have something special planned for stealth bombers so you have to show patience about them a little bit longer.
WTFPWN! Can't wait to undock my Manticor now! Plz hurry and put it in! KALI:Revelations.. Putting the Waaaa back in Piwat.. |
Nir
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2006.11.26 13:02:00 -
[69]
LMAO, the Purifier got 5 extra CPU in Kali. Thats some major shift in balance for sure.
Stealthbombers are crap ships in general, but amongst the four of them there is a huge imbalance too. Just give them all 3 launchers already.
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