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murder one
Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.22 00:09:00 -
[1]
I guess it was bound to happen- CCP dumbed down the rigs. T2- 300 calibration points, 2 slots, T1- 200 calibration points, 3 slots, Faction- 150 points, 3 slots (?!?!?!?).
Are there even any 50 calibration point rigs? How would it be possible to even fit three rigs on a faction ship with only 150 points and no 50 point rigs? Furthermore, are 50 point rigs even going to be worth fitting on a faction ship?
I really liked being able to fit 3 100 point rigs. It allowed me to finally squeeze (just barely) some really good setups onto my ships. But only if I had that last rig installed. Now only being able to use two out of the three rigs that I need almost every good setup is broken. I'b basically left with the same setups as I was before rigs came along, due to the way things work out with grid or CPU or ranges or speed or whatever the drawbacks are.
IMO the rigs should be balanced by reducing their drawbacks to make the 'smaller' point rigs more attractive to fit rather than making a weak rig with a huge drawback and just reducing it's fitting requirement.
I really hope the balancing doesn't stay like this. Three 100 point rigs made the ships fun. Now they're just going to be less unique and special.
Because I said so...
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Aeaus
Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2006.11.22 00:15:00 -
[2]
And for fracks sake, give Faction ships more calibration points, they should be the ultimate tinker toy. Not being able to pimp the rigs, is just sad
Last Weeks Signature |
murder one
Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.22 00:20:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Aeaus And for fracks sake, give Faction ships more calibration points, they should be the ultimate tinker toy. Not being able to pimp the rigs, is just sad
Absolutely. They should have the most points and the most slots of anything. For a billion+ they should be WTFPWN mobiles. It would be something to differentiate them from T2 ships.
Because I said so...
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Waragha
Art of War
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Posted - 2006.11.22 00:26:00 -
[4]
No that just seems stupid. T2 should have better fitting for rigs. That said one could implement special pirate rigs where the faction ships got a bonus mayhaps? Oh and the 150 cal nerf on faction ships with 3 slots .. Come on, don't you think they will make 50 cal rigs? :)
Originally by: Trepkos
The only difference between GS and NPC's are that GS respawn quicker.
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Mjnari
Empyreum
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Posted - 2006.11.22 00:27:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Waragha No that just seems stupid. T2 should have better fitting for rigs. That said one could implement special pirate rigs where the faction ships got a bonus mayhaps? Oh and the 150 cal nerf on faction ships with 3 slots .. Come on, don't you think they will make 50 cal rigs? :)
Umm... why should T2 have better fitting for rigs? *boggles*
------------------------ Minmatar, It should be like going down a flight of stairs on an office chair shooting an Uzi. |
Vincent Almasy
Gallente The Underground
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Posted - 2006.11.22 01:22:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Mjnari
Originally by: Waragha No that just seems stupid. T2 should have better fitting for rigs. That said one could implement special pirate rigs where the faction ships got a bonus mayhaps? Oh and the 150 cal nerf on faction ships with 3 slots .. Come on, don't you think they will make 50 cal rigs? :)
Umm... why should T2 have better fitting for rigs? *boggles*
because faction ships are still only t1 and not t2, maybe that is it?
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Winded Destruction
Eye of God Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.22 01:47:00 -
[7]
what about have a rig that adds a rig space or calibration pts that way you'd sacrifice 1 or the other for the other 1 it would also make a great variety of ship setups too :D:D jus a thought
Signed Winded Des '*!+.,_________________________________,.+!*' "Build a man a fire and He'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." ~ Terry Pratchet |
scabbsssjr
Gallente M'8'S
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Posted - 2006.11.22 01:59:00 -
[8]
Since most faction stuff is like in the middle between t1 and t2, why not make it have 250 points? What ever I say is my own views and not of my corp. |
Pattern Clarc
The Priory
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Posted - 2006.11.22 02:00:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Winded Destruction what about have a rig that adds a rig space or calibration pts that way you'd sacrifice 1 or the other for the other 1 it would also make a great variety of ship setups too :D:D jus a thought
I endorce this idea
or better yet
introduce skills
+50 calibration points perlevel. Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus |
Protunia
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.22 02:07:00 -
[10]
I look at faction ships as specialized T 1 ships they already get bonuses. I do not look at them as anything T2 and they should not be given T2 status simply because they have bigger bonuses than the T1 cousins.
T2 is T2, T1 is T1.
My Character Stats |
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murder one
Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.22 02:12:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Protunia I look at faction ships as specialized T 1 ships they already get bonuses. I do not look at them as anything T2 and they should not be given T2 status simply because they have bigger bonuses than the T1 cousins.
T2 is T2, T1 is T1.
Faction are even more unique than T2. They should have better fittings. But all this debate about faction/t2 etc. isn't the point. The point is that they nerfed the rig fitting.
Because I said so...
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Ed Gein
Dark Blade Incorporated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.11.22 02:21:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Ed Gein on 22/11/2006 02:23:01 Yeah I dont really follow their logic either. At first I thought it was cool, trying to make t1 stuff a bit more usable with an extra rig slot, then they turn around and nerf calibration. Plus just making everything having 200 calibration points seems like they just gave up trying to balance it. Lastly, why do faction ships keep getting shafted? If anything, I half expected faction ships to get thrown a bone and have 4 or 5 rig slots, give more people a reason to pay for them and use them in combat.
-------------------------------------------------------------- What do you call the person that brings a gun to a knife fight?
The Winner. |
Kyozoku
Loot
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Posted - 2006.11.22 03:57:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Kyozoku on 22/11/2006 04:07:07 As a huge fan of faction ships I'm really ****ed. At the moment no faction ship can not fit more than 1 rig. (You can't fit two 75 point rigs with 150 space. )
Why haven't they been given 250 points? They're effectively in between t1 and t2 after all.
I guess this is the dev's way of saying faction ships are solely collectors items and are not for use in combat.
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Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2006.11.22 04:02:00 -
[14]
Originally by: murder one
Originally by: Aeaus And for fracks sake, give Faction ships more calibration points, they should be the ultimate tinker toy. Not being able to pimp the rigs, is just sad
Absolutely. They should have the most points and the most slots of anything. For a billion+ they should be WTFPWN mobiles. It would be something to differentiate them from T2 ships.
So because the ship costs alot on the market, it should be uber?
Faction ships should atleast be between t1 and T2, but unber end-all-be-all? I don't think so.
Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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Adam Weishaupt
Minmatar The Praxis Initiative Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.22 04:16:00 -
[15]
Gaaah, don't nerf rigs, this was the saving grace that would allow us to compensate (somewhat) for the HP boost.
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Gor Kraon
Minmatar Shadowclan
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Posted - 2006.11.22 04:39:00 -
[16]
Why give 3 slots if we cant only fit 2 max anyway? Thats kinda stupid. 3 tech 1 rigs should be standard...
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murder one
Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.22 04:43:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
Originally by: murder one
Originally by: Aeaus And for fracks sake, give Faction ships more calibration points, they should be the ultimate tinker toy. Not being able to pimp the rigs, is just sad
Absolutely. They should have the most points and the most slots of anything. For a billion+ they should be WTFPWN mobiles. It would be something to differentiate them from T2 ships.
So because the ship costs alot on the market, it should be uber?
Faction ships should atleast be between t1 and T2, but unber end-all-be-all? I don't think so.
yes exactly they should be more capable due to their rarity and cost. please stop talking now.
Because I said so...
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Kyozoku
Loot
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Posted - 2006.11.22 04:58:00 -
[18]
Hopefully they'll release skills that increase calibration and decrease rig calibraiton use but we should probably whine as loud as we can just in case.
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Cindy Marco
Minmatar Solar Storm Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.22 09:30:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Adam Weishaupt Gaaah, don't nerf rigs, this was the saving grace that would allow us to compensate (somewhat) for the HP boost.
What that guy said.
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Schlauke
Gallente Zooner Corp G.U.A.R.D.
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Posted - 2006.11.22 09:52:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Kyozoku Edited by: Kyozoku on 22/11/2006 04:08:58 At the moment no faction ship can not fit more than 1 rig. (You can't fit two 75 point rigs with 150 space. )
Why haven't they been given 250 points? They're effectively in between t1 and t2 after all.
I guess this is the dev's way of saying faction ships are solely collectors items and are not for use in combat.
Not beeing able to Fit Rigs for the maximum number of Calibration Points is most likely a typo in the code. Someone typed:
FittingPossible if(UsedCalib + CalibForRigThatIWantToFit < MaximumCalibPoints)
This needs to be changed to:
FittingPossible if(UsedCalib + CalibForRigThatIWantToFit <= MaximumCalibPoints)
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Tuxford
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Posted - 2006.11.22 09:59:00 -
[21]
There is a rounding bug with the rigs so you can't fit two 75 point rigs in a 150 rig slots.
The faction ships have less calibration points as they are already pre pimped. Same goes for tech 2 ships that can fit better rigs but have fewer slots.
This may not seem obvious to everyone but rigs are pretty dangerous things, so they come pre nerfed. I'd rather have them sucky now and boost them later but have them to good now and then nerf them in the future. _______________ |
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Leandro Salazar
Aeon Industries Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2006.11.22 10:13:00 -
[22]
So calibration points are used to COUNTER the advantages of faction ships??? What the heck is the logic behind THAT? Makes zero sense to me, if anything they should complement the faction ship advantages (i.e. 25%-50% more calibration than T1) to keep the balance as it is now. Doing this is just nerfing faction ships down closer to T1. And why do that? I have yet to see a complaint about oh so overpowered faction ships wtfpwning everyone. The only reason I can think of doing this is hatred for players mainly using them, i.E. mission runners... --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
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Protunia
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.22 10:24:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Leandro Salazar So calibration points are used to COUNTER the advantages of faction ships??? What the heck is the logic behind THAT? Makes zero sense to me, if anything they should complement the faction ship advantages (i.e. 25%-50% more calibration than T1) to keep the balance as it is now. Doing this is just nerfing faction ships down closer to T1. And why do that? I have yet to see a complaint about oh so overpowered faction ships wtfpwning everyone. The only reason I can think of doing this is hatred for players mainly using them, i.E. mission runners...
Oh geees come one here. If its not whining they love mission runner its they hate mission runners.
Look guys you cant have it both ways.
As far as those specialized ships you guys are the ones jacking up the prices. I dont think they are worth the price you have on them now personally.
They are T1 and they have extra bonuses built in. What I see is people wanting them to be better than T 2.
They are simply better T 1 ships not T 2 ships.
I like the approach of making sure we dont have god like ships from ships that are already high end as it is. My Character Stats |
Joshua Foiritain
Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.22 10:29:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Leandro Salazar So calibration points are used to COUNTER the advantages of faction ships??? What the heck is the logic behind THAT? Makes zero sense to me, if anything they should complement the faction ship advantages (i.e. 25%-50% more calibration than T1) to keep the balance as it is now.
It makes lots of sense to me tbh, Faction ships are better then t1 ships because they come with free rigs installed, because of this you lose out on calib points. -----
[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Joshua Foiritain
Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.22 10:47:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 22/11/2006 10:47:05
Originally by: Tuxford I just realize there really isn't an option to nerf these guys once fitted. The rigs would still be fitted to ships
Would'nt they just update to whatever stats you put/change on them like every other modules does ingame? Or does this mean well be able to customize rigs in the future, since each one apparently has its own stats once get assembled? -----
[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Zarch AlDain
Friends of Everyone
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Posted - 2006.11.22 10:55:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Tuxford I just realize there really isn't an option to nerf these guys once fitted. The rigs would still be fitted to ships and we'd have to run a script that unloads them from your ships, or hunt each and every "overpowered" ship down and kill it, which is probably more fun.
I tried to fit two 100 calibration rigs in a raven yesterday and could only fit one.
I take it this is a bug with < instead of <= ?
Zarch AlDain
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Loki
Amarr Omni-Core Freedom Fighters
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Posted - 2006.11.22 10:59:00 -
[27]
200 feels like a bit too little ponts really 250 might be a bit much (2x75 + 1x100) 225 would be about right (3x 75, or 1x100 1x75 1x50 etc) this would let you make tradeoffs as opposed to severely limiting fitting options and leaving a lot of setups with unused points. |
Paigan
Amarr Katsu Corporation
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Posted - 2006.11.22 11:06:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
Originally by: Leandro Salazar So calibration points are used to COUNTER the advantages of faction ships??? What the heck is the logic behind THAT? Makes zero sense to me, if anything they should complement the faction ship advantages (i.e. 25%-50% more calibration than T1) to keep the balance as it is now.
It makes lots of sense to me tbh, Faction ships are better then t1 ships because they come with free rigs installed, because of this you lose out on calib points.
i always thougth faction ships would be better because the faction's navy has access to better quality / technology and therefor can construct ships slightly better?
If you now say "no they are not better at all, they just fit some rigs fixed", then faction ships ARE INDEED equal in principle to normal T1 ships.
Because they were actually the same but have reduced versatility.
This does NOT make sense "to be honest". It sounds more like rhetoric fact-bending to justiy some spontaneous imprudent balance snapshot.
But apart from RPG argumentation. How about balance arguments: Faction ships are hardly worth their price (i mean the LP). I could easily afford a CNR for a long time but i haven't so far, because it is hardly better than a Raven.
Now after Kali, the CNR owners will see their raven collegues saying "omg i just accomplished that amazing rig fitting" and won't be able to do the same, even though they've spent 1+ bil for some harldy better collector's item. (same of course of other faction ships)
Meaning nothing else than faction ships will be stealth nerfed to haven even less advantage worth the price.
Really, i can hardly believe that a normal player would defend every nonsense made so encouraged like you in the last time if he is no dev's alt. Or at least GM's alt or something (or paid? :-P) -- This game is still in beta stage |
Aequitas Veritas
TAOSP Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.11.22 11:06:00 -
[29]
I find it severly stupid that faction ships have less calibration points than t1... if anything they should have equal or more than t1
"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin |
murder one
Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.22 11:24:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Tuxford There is a rounding bug with the rigs so you can't fit two 75 point rigs in a 150 rig slots.
The faction ships have less calibration points as they are already pre pimped. Same goes for tech 2 ships that can fit better rigs but have fewer slots.
This may not seem obvious to everyone but rigs are pretty dangerous things, so they come pre nerfed. I'd rather have them sucky now and boost them later but have them to good now and then nerf them in the future.
Tux-
With the introduction of T2 ships, the gap between regular and faction ships is narrowed quite a bit, with a lot of T2 ships clearly eclipsing the faction items. Why take away even more uniqueness from the faction ships by narrowing the gap between basic T1 and faction even more?
These ships are rare. Very rare if you ask me, when compared to all the T2 ships flying around that can quite easily outclass them. Now that the Tier3 BS are here this becomes even more of an issue when stacking them up against faction counterparts. I dare say that the Hyperion will almost obsolete the Vindicator. I have mine on test still and have been pretty even with the Hyperion while using the Vindicator, and this isn't to say that the Hyperion is the equal of the TQ Vindicator but more to say that the Vindicator's advantages have been significantly reduced due to the game balance changes introduced in Kali.
There's no reason to own a Porche if you have a junky GM engine in it is there? Likewise with the faction ships: they need the stats and fitting capability to be able to not just compete, but dominate an engagement. That's what makes them special.
Because I said so...
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