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Aminari Talar Banananah Something Fishy. 5	Posted - 2015.06.17 10:30:07 - [1] - Quote Dont reply with this "it already is" nonsense. It is not free to play, it is "you can make it free to play". There is a huge difference between the two, namely, that the population of this game wil explode if it has no mandatory subscription. A few idea's to allow stubs to still be valuable are - Train all pilots with 1 skill each if subscribed. - Train up to two skills at a time on a character, or one skill on two characters - Get a random rotation of free stuff from the cosmetic shop that change every two weeks. EVE needs more people and this is the best way to ensure its around for another 5-10 years.
Aminari Talar Banananah Something Fishy. 5	Posted - 2015.06.17 10:33:52 - [2] - Quote one last thing, I dont want to hear this "pay to win nonsense" from people. As a game developer and unofficially speaking on ccp's behalf, you guys are idiots. Games first of all dont run on "free" second, there is many many many successful games like league of legends that makes 850 million a year from item shops that are not "pay to win". "item shop" does not equal "pay to win" so stop with the stick up your butt and. Item shops are highly rewarding to players and the development teams, they are easily the best income maker, and they are eves (and other game's) future for more awesome games like eve and if you get on the whole "no kiddies" bit, you dont need to worry Eve does not have kiddies because it has a subscription, it does not have kiddies because of its complexity. If you want to argue free to win means lots of kiddies, then world of warcraft should of never had kiddies to begin with.
Samir Duran Xadi Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 21	Posted - 2015.06.17 10:35:48 - [3] - Quote With the rate the subscription base is declining I'm pretty sure CCP is already considering it and making plans.
Fleischgewehr 4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation 13	Posted - 2015.06.17 10:35:55 - [4] - Quote No
Anthar Thebess 1084	Posted - 2015.06.17 10:39:07 - [5] - Quote But why when there can be subscription to play this game? Tbh , eve will never be like LOL (never played) but i guess you don't need to train a character for a year to finally start to get some fun and not thinking what you need to degrade in your fit. Simple example : Eve have live industry and ton's of free accounts will simply kill it almost instantly. Why ? Afk miner for every one. Afk producer for every one PI on 400 chars? Capital Remote AID Rebalance Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
Lan Wang Stillwater Corporation That Escalated Quickly. 777	Posted - 2015.06.17 10:45:29 - [6] - Quote Samir Duran Xadi wrote: With the rate the subscription base is declining I'm pretty sure CCP is already considering it and making plans. no they are not, you make it free to play then where does ccp get money from? or are you ok to just abandon the whole game, make it f2p, lose support, lose updates, introduce microtransactions and p2w? no thanks, the day eve becomes f2p and all the call of duty kids come here with the parents credit card is the day eve dies EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding \| Digital Design
Lost Greybeard Drunken Yordles 661	Posted - 2015.06.17 10:45:30 - [7] - Quote Samir Duran Xadi wrote: With the rate the subscription base is declining ... what? Chart of subscriber trends I mean, I guess a constant increase in subscribers is still technically a 'negative rate of decline', but phrasing it that way is dumb. Also, really, an "Eve is dying" thread? Are you both posting through a time portal to 2008?
Omar Alharazaad Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 1989	Posted - 2015.06.17 10:48:46 - [8] - Quote Yeah, I'm gonna go with NO. This is a terribad idea that would most assuredly kill EVE for real. And you know... EVE is dying, and has been for 12 years. It most likely will be dying for another ten years. Is a monthly subscription such a heavy burden? Is buying PLEX on the market that oppressive? My daily cigarettes and beer cost me more than a month of playing this game. Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
Samir Duran Xadi Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 21	Posted - 2015.06.17 10:51:04 - [9] - Quote Lost Greybeard wrote: Samir Duran Xadi wrote: With the rate the subscription base is declining ... what? Chart of subscriber trends I mean, I guess a constant increase in subscribers is still technically a 'negative rate of decline', but phrasing it that way is dumb. Also, really, an "Eve is dying" thread? Are you both posting through a time portal to 2008? It' s been 2.5 years since that graph got updated, ever wonder why?
Lan Wang Stillwater Corporation That Escalated Quickly. 777	Posted - 2015.06.17 10:52:12 - [10] - Quote Samir Duran Xadi wrote: Lost Greybeard wrote: Samir Duran Xadi wrote: With the rate the subscription base is declining ... what? Chart of subscriber trends I mean, I guess a constant increase in subscribers is still technically a 'negative rate of decline', but phrasing it that way is dumb. Also, really, an "Eve is dying" thread? Are you both posting through a time portal to 2008? It' s been 2.5 years since that graph got updated, ever wonder why? so where do ccp get money for running f2p? EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding \| Digital Design
Lisa Gentilette The Scope Gallente Federation 103	Posted - 2015.06.17 10:54:00 - [11] - Quote Lost Greybeard wrote: Samir Duran Xadi wrote: With the rate the subscription base is declining ... what? Chart of subscriber trends I mean, I guess a constant increase in subscribers is still technically a 'negative rate of decline', but phrasing it that way is dumb. Also, really, an "Eve is dying" thread? Are you both posting through a time portal to 2008? That chart is old, dude. But yes, any guess about subscription numbers is like reading into tea leaves, but we have the login numbers and those are currently only going one way, the wrong way.
Nami Kumamato School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 598	Posted - 2015.06.17 10:55:13 - [12] - Quote Aminari Talar wrote: Dont reply with this "it already is" nonsense. It is not free to play, it is "you can make it free to play". There is a huge difference between the two, namely, that the population of this game wil explode if it has no mandatory subscription. A few idea's to allow stubs to still be valuable are - Train all pilots with 1 skill each if subscribed. - Train up to two skills at a time on a character, or one skill on two characters - Get a random rotation of free stuff from the cosmetic shop that change every two weeks. EVE needs more people and this is the best way to ensure its around for another 5-10 years. Soooo... I could have 10 characters doing exploration ?! - \o/ Seriously though - do you even imagine what that would would do to the EVE market, industry and warfare? It'd be Asakai every Thursdays at 5 o'clock... You wouldn't find a pebble of Veldspar anywhere... Fornicate The Constabulary !
Lan Wang Stillwater Corporation That Escalated Quickly. 777	Posted - 2015.06.17 10:55:17 - [13] - Quote Aminari Talar wrote: one last thing, I dont want to hear this "pay to win nonsense" from people. As a game developer and unofficially speaking on ccp's behalf, you guys are idiots. Games first of all dont run on "free" second, there is many many many successful games like league of legends that makes 850 million a year from item shops that are not "pay to win". "item shop" does not equal "pay to win" so stop with the stick up your butt and. Item shops are highly rewarding to players and the development teams, they are easily the best income maker, and they are eves (and other game's) future for more awesome games like eve and if you get on the whole "no kiddies" bit, you dont need to worry Eve does not have kiddies because it has a subscription, it does not have kiddies because of its complexity. If you want to argue free to win means lots of kiddies, then world of warcraft should of never had kiddies to begin with. if you are a game developer then you should have no problem paying a subscription, idea, link your most successful game you have worked on which is free EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding \| Digital Design
Ralph King-Griffin Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance 10122	Posted - 2015.06.17 10:59:28 - [14] - Quote Subscription mmo's go free to play when the publisher realize the game isn't worth paying for I.e. when they die. Eve is worth paying for, I would like it to remain so. No. =]\|[=
Kaivar Lancer Little Rat Company 614	Posted - 2015.06.17 11:03:24 - [15] - Quote If the gameplay is still crappy, it doesn't matter how free you make it. I think that's the real issue with Eve.
Vek Hareka Fist Bumps All Around 32	Posted - 2015.06.17 11:08:56 - [16] - Quote Aminari Talar wrote: one last thing, I dont want to hear this "pay to win nonsense" from people. As a game developer and unofficially speaking on ccp's behalf, you guys are idiots. Games first of all dont run on "free" second, there is many many many successful games like league of legends that makes 850 million a year from item shops that are not "pay to win". "item shop" does not equal "pay to win" so stop with the stick up your butt and. Item shops are highly rewarding to players and the development teams, they are easily the best income maker, and they are eves (and other game's) future for more awesome games like eve and if you get on the whole "no kiddies" bit, you dont need to worry Eve does not have kiddies because it has a subscription, it does not have kiddies because of its complexity. If you want to argue free to win means lots of kiddies, then world of warcraft should of never had kiddies to begin with. It's always a pleasure to discuss a well-researched, thought-over, nicely-expressed, reasonably-stressed idea. ... No, really. Here comes a time, ganker, When blingfits cease to sparkle, When hermophite looses its luster, When the station hangar becomes a prison And all that is left is a capsuleer's love for his fedo.
GankYou Redshield Holding Company 533	Posted - 2015.06.17 11:10:09 - [17] - Quote Samir Duran Xadi wrote: With the rate the subscription base is declining I'm pretty sure CCP is already considering it and making plans. It it certainly a possibility in the future. Even a game like ESO by Bethesda/ZeniMax recently converted to Buy-to-Play. To avoid pay to win scenarios, the subscription cost could be lowered at first, and then perhaps completely removed if a development like Walking in Stations happens, which would allow to generate revenue from the in-game vanity merchandise. ...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK. Gÿ+ Nullsec Ore Changes - Lowend Mineral Price Tracking [2015]
Yarda Black Militaris Industries Northern Coalition. 707	Posted - 2015.06.17 11:11:15 - [18] - Quote Go away
Candi LeMew Isogen 5 32542	Posted - 2015.06.17 11:15:22 - [19] - Quote Ralph King-Griffin wrote: Subscription mmo's go free to play when the publisher realize the game isn't worth paying for I.e. when they die. Eve is worth paying for, I would like it to remain so. No. Pretty much this. It's worth paying for. Making something free doesn't translate to a prospering game in my opinion. You'll get more people, but far less money. The only way to compensate is to flood the game with purchasable extras, microtransactions, etc as a result. Need to keep in mind that subs/plex and the value they holds within game really is the backbone for much of the economy here. It flows onto everything, the cost of your ship, the risk in losing stuff, the joy when you kill someone elses stuff. To make it free to play isn't asking for a better game, it's asking for a different game all together. EVE isn't the game for everyone (non-payers), and that's fine. Plenty of variety and free space MMOs out there. Also plenty of other ways to draw in fresh subscribers if they really wanted to. In Anoikis .. Bob Is Always Watching ... "I been kicked out of better homes than this" - Rick James GÖ¬ -ér-à-ò-é -ôew, -ôear none, -òave yo-àr love -ôor only one.
Erebus Neclan NERV Reborn Independent Stars Allied Forces 3	Posted - 2015.06.17 11:18:59 - [20] - Quote Why would you care? http://gyazo.com/8fc9cbd81018ba0ec91c5f9745c2e754 Just log your main to sub! Oh wait.
Zealous Miner 257	Posted - 2015.06.17 11:20:00 - [21] - Quote Aminari Talar wrote: EVE needs more entitled people and this is the best way to ensure it dies several months (if that) after these ideas are implemented. I agree. Fedo. Fedo? Fedo!
Pixie Tickle Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 8	Posted - 2015.06.17 11:35:59 - [22] - Quote Ya mean let's bring all the jobless and kids in here who'll try to buy their social status and then **** the forums full of their tears because they all get the crap kicked outta them! Way to go tryin' to kill tha game by letting a demographic in that's not even remotely the target audience! Ya should go check forums of f2p games, some times! They're much worse than this place!
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 16542	Posted - 2015.06.17 11:45:00 - [23] - Quote If you think EVE is too expensive now, wait until you see how much it will cost when it's "free"... "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
Salah ad-Din al-Jawahiri New Order Logistics CODE. 215	Posted - 2015.06.17 11:46:27 - [24] - Quote Calling other people idiots and then callingthem trolls when they respond. Trollbait? Trollbait.
Lan Wang Stillwater Corporation That Escalated Quickly. 782	Posted - 2015.06.17 11:50:10 - [25] - Quote GankYou wrote: Samir Duran Xadi wrote: With the rate the subscription base is declining I'm pretty sure CCP is already considering it and making plans. It it certainly a possibility in the future. Even a game like ESO by Bethesda/ZeniMax recently converted to Buy-to-Play. To avoid pay to win scenarios, the subscription cost could be lowered at first, and then perhaps completely removed if a development like Walking in Stations happens, which would allow to generate revenue from the in-game vanity merchandise. come on you know the market would die horribly if this went f2p, everything would get farmed to death and markets would have to be npc run because it would not be worth being a trader, it would be titan battles online because they would be so easy to acquire massive stacks of isk through dozens of alts. alts would have to be made illegal in game because it would just be abused, botting would rise and everything would just go t!ts up because f2p games lack any support. im gonna guess people would still want the free updates/expansions/new content and all the other stuff that ccp do in the game? EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding \| Digital Design
Jenshae Chiroptera 1711	Posted - 2015.06.17 11:50:38 - [26] - Quote No. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids . High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow Fozzie is treating a symptom.
Crest Zah Donartal Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 312	Posted - 2015.06.17 11:55:31 - [27] - Quote To make EVE F2p, would be a point of no Return. the point to leave! More player means not better gameplay... just more idiotic F2P Players.
Wraith Soulsark AlteredState Demolition 6	Posted - 2015.06.17 12:07:27 - [28] - Quote no no no no no no f2p is the absolute worst thing that can happen to a game period. we are already seeing the beginnings with the ship skins and clothing and such but sub free this game would be in the toilet within 3 months
Anthar Thebess 1087	Posted - 2015.06.17 12:08:23 - [29] - Quote There is always a place to make free accounts ( to attract new players), but the balance will be hard as hell. Cyno alts, mining alts, R&D alts, production slots all of this must be excluded from those accounts. Capital Remote AID Rebalance Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
The Slayer GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 254	Posted - 2015.06.17 12:22:47 - [30] - Quote Lost Greybeard wrote: Samir Duran Xadi wrote: With the rate the subscription base is declining ... what? Chart of subscriber trends I mean, I guess a constant increase in subscribers is still technically a 'negative rate of decline', but phrasing it that way is dumb. Also, really, an "Eve is dying" thread? Are you both posting through a time portal to 2008? That chart is 2 years out of date bro. Theres a reason they haven't updated it in 2 years.
Aminari Talar Banananah Something Fishy. 6	Posted - 2015.06.17 12:28:51 - [31] - Quote I would really love to know how people make the conclusion "making eve to play will ruin it". Do you not know that player population is the life force of a game? Posting charts with no real information if they are tracking actual characters, actual active characters, total characters etc (ie not tracking relative data) is not a way to validate your position. In fact while we are on the topic i do not recall any game going free to play eve being hurt. Eve could easily be support by an add in the game at the character log-in. So what legitimate argument do you have? i think a lot of you are just worried about "wow kiddies" Coming here, but let me break it to you, Subscriptions don't keep wow kiddies away if that was the case, we would not have wow today. So will you do us all a favor and stop being idiots about it. Lastly Item shops that are cosmetic or convenience based are highly rewarding for the players and game, its like shopping but for your character instead of you. How is it going to hurt you if someone buys a robe to role play and ccp makes what they made off that one transaction they would of gotten in a month? utterly redic that you think such things, and i want to be the voice that advocates against the stupidity some of you are bringing forward for this topic.
Commissar Kate GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 404469	Posted - 2015.06.17 12:34:05 - [32] - Quote Sorry but I dont want to spend more $$$ to play eve than I already do. We all know that F2P games actually cost more to play than sub based ones. -k8 My Fanclub
Lan Wang Stillwater Corporation That Escalated Quickly. 784	Posted - 2015.06.17 12:34:07 - [33] - Quote you're the only one being an idiot and ranting about f2p EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding \| Digital Design
Elenahina Agony Unleashed Agony Empire 761	Posted - 2015.06.17 12:36:29 - [34] - Quote Making Eve free to play would kill it. Flat out, no question, slow and lingering death rattle kill it. First of all, unlike other games, training in Eve is time based - time you pay for. Now I can create a character on a free account, let them train for two years and then decide to log in and play? Production alts being free to play? Well, there goes the economy. The market will look like Sisi - 1,000,000 of everything in every system and all for 100 ISK. PvP? Forget it - Every system will have 300 people in it all tyring to kill you and each other. It would be like a grand melee in the coliseum. You'd undock and explode nearly instantly - but who cares when you can buy a pimp fit Machariel for a few thousand ISK? The game would first stagnate to levels only dreamed about during the days of the blue doughnut. Then it would fail, rapidly, uncontrollably. And on the day they turned off the servers, a final message would appear giving everyone logged in the name and address of their savior - the OP - who has released from their chains of slavery to Tranquility, our Lord and Master. tl;dr: Eve is not like any other game. **** off. Also, no. Stop trying to kill our fun because you're a cheap bastard. Agony Unleashed is Recruiting - Small Gang PvP in Null Sec
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 23937	Posted - 2015.06.17 12:36:30 - [35] - Quote Aminari Talar wrote: i want to be the voice that advocates against the stupidity some of you are bringing forward for this topic. Then shut up, most of it is coming from you. Eve doesn't appeal to most people because of its very premise, not the price. Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Lan Wang Stillwater Corporation That Escalated Quickly. 785	Posted - 2015.06.17 12:39:37 - [36] - Quote Elenahina wrote: Making Eve free to play would kill it. Flat out, no question, slow and lingering death rattle kill it. First of all, unlike other games, training in Eve is time based - time you pay for. Now I can create a character on a free account, let them train for two years and then decide to log in and play? Production alts being free to play? Well, there goes the economy. The market will look like Sisi - 1,000,000 of everything in every system and all for 100 ISK. PvP? Forget it - Every system will have 300 people in it all tyring to kill you and each other. It would be like a grand melee in the coliseum. You'd undock and explode nearly instantly - but who cares when you can buy a pimp fit Machariel for a few thousand ISK? The game would first stagnate to levels only dreamed about during the days of the blue doughnut. Then it would fail, rapidly, uncontrollably. And on the day they turned off the servers, a final message would appear giving everyone logged in the name and address of their savior - the OP - who has released from their chains of slavery to Tranquility, our Lord and Master. tl;dr: Eve is not like any other game. ** off. Also, no. Stop trying to kill our fun because you're a cheap bastard. he is a game developer he should already know all this ;) if he did then this topic would have never started EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding \| Digital Design**
Captain Awkward Republic University Minmatar Republic 23	Posted - 2015.06.17 12:40:06 - [37] - Quote In my opinion, CCP does not even want more players into the game atm. It seems like they do little to no advertising. I see the occasional EvE flash banner when im surfing, but i gues I would not see those if i would not bee surfing eve sites in the first place. I live in germany, and I see TV adds for crappy F2P MMOs all the time. If they have the money to do so, why does CCP not do it ? You can basically take the " I was there" video, shorten it a bit and put it into a TV commercial. Advertise even one week in several big countys and you should get a huge attention from people that currently dont even know that EvE exists.
TinkerHell Nocturnal Romance Cynosural Field Theory. 153	Posted - 2015.06.17 12:40:12 - [38] - Quote As soon as any item is sold in this game that is only bought by real money and benefits the players actual character and not some colourful skin or clothing item i am gone. I will not play any game that requires me to buy more and more items to stay competitive. I play games to win, winning is my fun, i am not playing a game where people can get items and advantages over me because i wasnt willing to mortgage my house to keep buying items. I will never play any games that have any items that are bought only by real money. I have also stopped buying games that are full of dlcs, it just allows games to be released half done and for the developers to charge twice as much as they would of previously. If all games go p2w and dlc i will just go outside and get a life.
Elenahina Agony Unleashed Agony Empire 761	Posted - 2015.06.17 12:42:38 - [39] - Quote Aminari Talar wrote: Do you not know that player population is the life force of a game? Except in Eve, it's long term players that are the life force of the game. They are the only ones who have the skills necessary to do some of things in the game, and F2P games do not encourage long term play. They're like a drug - the players are out there always on the lookout for their next fix in the form of a new game, and the old ones are left to wither and rot with a core player base that's barely large enough to keep the servers running. Games like LOL are the exception in the F2P arena, not the rule. Agony Unleashed is Recruiting - Small Gang PvP in Null Sec
Elenahina Agony Unleashed Agony Empire 761	Posted - 2015.06.17 12:44:14 - [40] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: he is a game developer he should already know all this ;) if he did then this topic would have never started Hey, I can draw a tic-tac-toe board as well as the next guy, but that doesn't make me a game developer. Agony Unleashed is Recruiting - Small Gang PvP in Null Sec
stoicfaux 5909	Posted - 2015.06.17 12:44:55 - [41] - Quote What, no hats?!? Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Omar Alharazaad Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 1991	Posted - 2015.06.17 12:45:09 - [42] - Quote OP is apparently too young to remember Monoclegate. I'm sure if his idea were implemented it wouldn't be nearly as bad as that. Nope. Also, I really dislike... no, that's too gentle of a term. I loathe the notion of someone turning EVE into the kind of cesspit that is a Minecraft public server, and that is exactly what would happen. Right up until it died. Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
Digits Kho Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 62	Posted - 2015.06.17 12:45:31 - [43] - Quote Im sitting here wondering how much feed this troll will get
Elenahina Agony Unleashed Agony Empire 761	Posted - 2015.06.17 12:48:03 - [44] - Quote Captain Awkward wrote: In my opinion, CCP does not even want more players into the game atm. Players: Here CCP take our money. CCP: Nah, we're good. Thanks though. Seriously? That's the kind of scenario you're envisioning? Agony Unleashed is Recruiting - Small Gang PvP in Null Sec
Elenahina Agony Unleashed Agony Empire 761	Posted - 2015.06.17 12:48:51 - [45] - Quote Digits Kho wrote: Im sitting here wondering how much feed this troll will get Hopefully enough that he gets his account deleted for gross misconduct against the game. Agony Unleashed is Recruiting - Small Gang PvP in Null Sec
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 1917	Posted - 2015.06.17 12:49:00 - [46] - Quote stoicfaux wrote: What, no hats?!? For all we know, valve has a patent on "free" hats...
Otso Bakarti Filial Pariahs 260	Posted - 2015.06.17 12:49:46 - [47] - Quote You want to kill an MMO? Go FTP with MT. I survived Win95
Aminari Talar Banananah Something Fishy. 6	Posted - 2015.06.17 12:51:22 - [48] - Quote You guys obviously do not understand how mechanics work. How much do you think this game will climb in population with free to play? Will it surpass the 40,000 lost in the eve fires? Are you legit in telling me that eves population will peak above 110-120,000 online with it being free to play? Where did you guys get logic from? You realize if more people join, more people consume, and more people die right? You realize that the economy is only going to change by a variance, and will never be 1,000,000 on everything right? Its unbelievable that you actually think such a rediculous thing. Just saying. On another note, if you advocate the population going up to that point, you only validated that its positive for the game. As for "People sitting on toon training" Rolls eyes, As if they are not already doing that.
Aminari Talar Banananah Something Fishy. 6	Posted - 2015.06.17 12:56:21 - [49] - Quote TinkerHell wrote: As soon as any item is sold in this game that is only bought by real money and benefits the players actual character and not some colourful skin or clothing item i am gone. I will not play any game that requires me to buy more and more items to stay competitive. I play games to win, winning is my fun, i am not playing a game where people can get items and advantages over me because i wasnt willing to mortgage my house to keep buying items. I will never play any games that have any items that are bought only by real money. I have also stopped buying games that are full of dlcs, it just allows games to be released half done and for the developers to charge twice as much as they would of previously. If all games go p2w and dlc i will just go outside and get a life. you realize in some ways i can argue that everything in this game is already pay to win (by plex buy spam)
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 1917	Posted - 2015.06.17 13:03:06 - [50] - Quote Otso Bakarti wrote: You want to kill an MMO? Go FTP with MT. Nah they usually all survive once they go that route. They just have ditched their past aspiration because they know at that point their change of being at the top are crushed. Many a DEV probably got fired for not building a game as good as the PR department was able to hype it...
Commissar Kate GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 404472	Posted - 2015.06.17 13:03:23 - [51] - Quote So exactly how would CCP make money if they went free to play? Selling ships and modules in a cashshop? Possibly Skillpoints? Both of which go against everything that Eve is Also I don't think the type of person that plays Eve is the same type of person that buys cosmetic items. How many ship skins do you have? I don't even see you wearing any clothes from the nex store either so dont give us **** about buying cosmetic items. -k8 My Fanclub
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 23938	Posted - 2015.06.17 13:04:25 - [52] - Quote Aminari Talar wrote: You guys obviously do not understand how mechanics work. How much do you think this game will climb in population with free to play? Will it surpass the 40,000 lost in the eve fires? Are you legit in telling me that eves population will peak above 110-120,000 online with it being free to play? Where did you guys get logic from? You realize if more people join, more people consume, and more people die right? You realize that the economy is only going to change by a variance, and will never be 1,000,000 on everything right? Any gains from going free to pay would be short term, 90% of the people drawn in by it would leave in a matter of months due to the cutthroat nature of Eve or because the next great f2p game has been released. Quote: Its unbelievable that you actually think such a rediculous thing. Just saying. Pot meet kettle Quote: you realize in some ways i can argue that everything in this game is already pay to win (by plex buy spam) Please qualify this. In my experience most people who attempt to pay to win in Eve via PLEX invariably lose the stuff they buy and end up paying for someone else, the person who took their stuff, to win. Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Anthar Thebess 1087	Posted - 2015.06.17 13:04:56 - [53] - Quote Nes store?! Capital Remote AID Rebalance Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 1917	Posted - 2015.06.17 13:06:36 - [54] - Quote Commissar Kate wrote: So exactly how would CCP make money if they went free to play? Selling ships and modules in a cashshop? Possibly Skillpoints? Both of which go against everything that Eve is Also I don't think the type of person that plays Eve is the same type of person that buys cosmetic items. How many ship skins do you have? I don't even see you wearing any clothes from the nex store either so dont give us **** about buying cosmetic items. He's banking on the new arrivals to not be the same kind of player as the current one so they will buy cosmetic stuff I guess. I personally don't belive it but meh...
Mag's the united 19605	Posted - 2015.06.17 13:08:36 - [55] - Quote Gonna have to go with no. Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Omar Alharazaad Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 1991	Posted - 2015.06.17 13:15:18 - [56] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: In my experience most people who attempt to pay to win in Eve via PLEX invariably lose the stuff they buy and end up paying for someone else, the person who took their stuff, to win. I love those guys. Billion ISK batttlecruisers on wide eyed newbies. So hasty to protect their precious metal scraps from being stolen. So sure that they've purchased their very own "I WIN" button. So quick to lose all that bling. Sadly, I fear that OP is actually very serious and is not trolling us at all. He actually believes this would work. And it could have worked, 12 years ago. Now, EVE is too established in how it works for such a change to have any effect that's not catastrophic in nature. Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
Giaus Felix Hedion University Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2015.06.17 13:18:09 - [57] - Quote Anthar Thebess wrote: Nes store?! NES Store isn't pay to win, everything in there is strictly cosmetic or service orientated and offers no ingame advantage to a single character. For example multiple character training offers no ingame advantage because it is only possible to log on one character per account.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 13454	Posted - 2015.06.17 13:21:45 - [58] - Quote Going free to play is the "roll over and die" of the MMO world. Furthermore, that would basically abrogate the need for Plex altogether, a huge portion of CCP's income, not to mention alienate a large portion of the existing playerbase. Why would they **** off their existing customers merely to cater to purely theoretical ones? That would be suicide. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Aminari Talar Banananah Something Fishy. 6	Posted - 2015.06.17 13:26:57 - [59] - Quote That is not true. The plex validity is based on the optional subscription that is being offered. Basically, If ccp made it so that plex could allow up to all three toons to train 1 skill at a time with a stub, and an additional skill with plex, plex are still if not more equally valid and desirable. It would also allow for ways to speed up new player progression (Which so many have complained about over the years). And this is just one example another one is to have the stub give all characters 1 training que, and allow plex to act as the stub rate. Another is to allow the stub to give one character two skill trains, and allow for plex to train one one the other two. There is a mountain of options to allow plexing to still be valid.
stoicfaux 5910	Posted - 2015.06.17 13:27:15 - [60] - Quote If EVE went Free2Play, then CCP would have to implement a 5 minute skill queue to (slightly) reduce the number of alts that people would create. Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Carrie-Anne Moss Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 204	Posted - 2015.06.17 13:27:51 - [61] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Why would they **** off their existing customers merely to cater to purely theoretical ones? That would be suicide. LOL come on DUDE! This is ccp, they do this atleast twice every 3 months man. Lol Seriously i know you know that is exactly what they have been doing for quite awhile lately MAN!!
Anthar Thebess 1087	Posted - 2015.06.17 13:28:12 - [62] - Quote Giaus Felix wrote: Anthar Thebess wrote: Nes store?! NES Store isn't pay to win, everything in there is strictly cosmetic or service orientated and offers no ingame advantage to a single character. For example multiple character training offers no ingame advantage because it is only possible to log on one character per account. I know this. The only thing i got form there is thanathos skin - well i was drunk 5 minutes later i undocked and , omg this skin is so dark, and in the systems i live you almost don't see the difference. My point is that in order for NES to be profitable source of income - it needs something viable - for people to actually spend cash on it. Skins are fun, but at some point people will be bored, oh hey next pink ship. From my perspective , CCP needs to change charging for every (new) thing in plexes. Character transfers New 'underwear' from NES New Skins Alliance tournament etc This escalates cost of plex to very high levels - and we are not EVE China where booting is not prohibited. Cost of alt accounts raise every day ( plex speculation helps this ). Capital Remote AID Rebalance Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
Captain Awkward Republic University Minmatar Republic 23	Posted - 2015.06.17 13:28:21 - [63] - Quote Elenahina wrote: Captain Awkward wrote: In my opinion, CCP does not even want more players into the game atm. Players: Here CCP take our money. CCP: Nah, we're good. Thanks though. Seriously? That's the kind of scenario you're envisioning? Please bother to read the rest of my post to see why I made that statement. Its not like CCP has closed the game for new subscriptions, but they are also not doing a great job at advertising their game to potential new players. At least it seems that way to me. I only took notice of EvE after Asakai when I read about the battle in a regular news site. I have bin subed ever since with one and later two accounts. Had it not bin for that player driven "advertisement by accident" I would probably still be jumping circles in a WoW auction house instead of playing this awesome internet spaceship game and never wanting to return to WoW ever again.
Valkin Mordirc 1118	Posted - 2015.06.17 13:30:48 - [64] - Quote No for F2P because F2P is a very slippery slope to P2W I don't want to pay for increased skill timers. I don't want to pay cash for Faction Mods. If this became a thing I would very passionantly protest it tell it happened then quit. So. Sorry but. ** your idea. Free to play, and ** you. =D `#DeleteTheWeak`
Aminari Talar Banananah Something Fishy. 7	Posted - 2015.06.17 14:08:02 - [65] - Quote Free to play has nothing to do with pay to win. This is a magical thing in your head like unicorns and faries with pixie dust (Well there use to be an alliance we called "pixies" so they are "kinda real"). CCP Would be totally fine if their itemshop had - Plex - Ships - New Models - Clothing - Alliance space station bling (new models) - Corporation Space station bling (new models) - Pos Bling - Effect bling (Weapons, engines, etc) These things coupled with a subscription plan that did something like "You can now train two skills at a time on the same single toon per an account" would allow plex to still be valid, and make training awesome. the subscription part is up for grabs because of the long list of things you can do with it, like "accelerated training rates" similar to that which new players get. In short, I find anything that is "Time based" or "item shop based" are also totally acceptable (iv seen a few situations where time based systems in RTS are broken) and then you have league of legends which has direct combat related purchases effecting game play, not "pay to win". It is all about how you design it. Quote: You players should advocate freely and fairly for this system. Just because you have been burnt in the past, does not mean you have WILL be burnt here with an item shop... AND IT TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE AND UNFAIR OF YOU TO SAY THAT CCP HAS THIS INTENTION
Ellegos1 R. Danneskjold and Sons Repossessions Empyreus 5	Posted - 2015.06.17 14:08:02 - [66] - Quote This thread gave me cancer. Also, I think the horse is, for all intents and purposes, dead. Remember kids, say no to.... whispers free to play Legos and Friends RDAS Recruitment Thread
Commissar Kate GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 404486	Posted - 2015.06.17 14:18:24 - [67] - Quote Aminari Talar wrote: Free to play has nothing to do with pay to win. This is a magical thing in your head like unicorns and faries with pixie dust (Well there use to be an alliance we called "pixies" so they are "kinda real"). CCP Would be totally fine if their itemshop had - Plex - Ships - New Models - Clothing - Alliance space station bling (new models) - Corporation Space station bling (new models) - Pos Bling - Effect bling (Weapons, engines, etc) These things coupled with a subscription plan that did something like "You can now train two skills at a time on the same single toon per an account" would allow plex to still be valid, and make training awesome. the subscription part is up for grabs because of the long list of things you can do with it, like "accelerated training rates" similar to that which new players get. In short, I find anything that is "Time based" or "item shop based" are also totally acceptable (iv seen a few situations where time based systems in RTS are broken) and then you have league of legends which has direct combat related purchases effecting game play, not "pay to win". It is all about how you design it. Quote: You players should advocate freely and fairly for this system. Just because you have been burnt in the past, does not mean you have WILL be burnt here with an item shop... AND IT TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE AND UNFAIR OF YOU TO SAY THAT CCP HAS THIS INTENTION Ships in cashshop? Hell no! -k8 My Fanclub
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 13454	Posted - 2015.06.17 14:20:12 - [68] - Quote Aminari Talar wrote: Free to play has nothing to do with pay to win. Except for how they very often go hand in hand. Take your nonsense somewhere else. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Aminari Talar Banananah Something Fishy. 7	Posted - 2015.06.17 14:20:58 - [69] - Quote Actually, There is nothing wrong with it at all. It works perfectly fine in many other games (like league of legends). If you can provide an example where one hero in league massively destroys all other hero's because its only "Bought" with "real money" i will give up this point and remove it from the list. other wise its all based on your "experience" getting repeatedly "raped" by someone in some "pay to win game".
Lan Wang Stillwater Corporation That Escalated Quickly. 789	Posted - 2015.06.17 14:22:44 - [70] - Quote Aminari Talar wrote: Free to play has nothing to do with pay to win. This is a magical thing in your head like unicorns and faries with pixie dust (Well there use to be an alliance we called "pixies" so they are "kinda real"). CCP Would be totally fine if their itemshop had - Plex - Ships - New Models - Clothing - Alliance space station bling (new models) - Corporation Space station bling (new models) - Pos Bling - Effect bling (Weapons, engines, etc) These things coupled with a subscription plan that did something like "You can now train two skills at a time on the same single toon per an account" would allow plex to still be valid, and make training awesome. the subscription part is up for grabs because of the long list of things you can do with it, like "accelerated training rates" similar to that which new players get. In short, I find anything that is "Time based" or "item shop based" are also totally acceptable (iv seen a few situations where time based systems in RTS are broken) and then you have league of legends which has direct combat related purchases effecting game play, not "pay to win". It is all about how you design it. Quote: You players should advocate freely and fairly for this system. Just because you have been burnt in the past, does not mean you have WILL be burnt here with an item shop... AND IT TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE AND UNFAIR OF YOU TO SAY THAT CCP HAS THIS INTENTION terrible rage and such bad ideas, nobody likes the idea so maybe just biomass if the sub is such an issue for you EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding \| Digital Design
Stacy Lone University of Caille Gallente Federation 90	Posted - 2015.06.17 14:24:21 - [71] - Quote Making EVE F2p would instantly kill it. I despise F2P games, and am mostly disappointed when a game that could have good prospects gets announces as F2P. Making EVE f2P would instantly kill the whole economy and thus make the game pretty much stuoid and not fun. Need Minerals? make yourself a dozen of mining alts and you can fly whatever you want because you can mine it in no time. Los wouldn't matter. ISK wouldn't. We would see an increase in supercapitals and titans, because getting the minerals for them would be stupidly trivial. In short: the whole game balance would simply collapse. The only thing that would still matter is skill points. And since CCP would need an income source, selling Sp for $$ wouldn't be a bad idea, making the game P2W. No thanks. I actually love having to pay a subscription. Paying a subscription ensures that there is an even playing field. I hate F2P games, because they aren't free. You are just paying in another way. If you don't pay money, then you are paying by being the cannon fodder for other players, and if you are paying oney it is likely that you are paying far more then you would for a sub game, and it would also mean that you can get "better" at the game just because you have more $$$ irl. That's all things I don't like. There is a reason why subscription models are on the rise again and why some other games that have been / are about to be published chose subscriptions instead of F2P / P2W.
Commissar Kate GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 404486	Posted - 2015.06.17 14:25:55 - [72] - Quote Aminari Talar wrote: Actually, There is nothing wrong with it at all. It works perfectly fine in many other games (like league of legends). If you can provide an example where one hero in league massively destroys all other hero's because its only "Bought" with "real money" i will give up this point and remove it from the list. other wise its all based on your "experience" getting repeatedly "raped" by someone in some "pay to win game". LoL does not have an ingame economy like EvE has. That's the issue. LoL is also MOBA not a sandbox MMO. Please stop comparing them. -k8 My Fanclub
Shiloh Templeton Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 332	Posted - 2015.06.17 14:29:42 - [73] - Quote I could see getting to a point where the subscription price is reduced and there is additional CCP revenue from customizations, etc. But I don't want the subscription price to go away. Think how much it would lower the quality of the average player.
Pixie Tickle Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 13	Posted - 2015.06.17 14:34:09 - [74] - Quote Commissar Kate wrote: Aminari Talar wrote: Actually, There is nothing wrong with it at all. It works perfectly fine in many other games (like league of legends). If you can provide an example where one hero in league massively destroys all other hero's because its only "Bought" with "real money" i will give up this point and remove it from the list. other wise its all based on your "experience" getting repeatedly "raped" by someone in some "pay to win game". LoL does not have an ingame economy like EvE has. That's the issue. LoL is also a MOBA not a sandbox MMO. Please stop comparing them. Let's compare Go with 4-in-a-row while we're at it! It's virtually the same, ya put dots on a field right?
Samir Duran Xadi Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 23	Posted - 2015.06.17 15:06:34 - [75] - Quote Anthar Thebess wrote: There is always a place to make free accounts ( to attract new players), but the balance will be hard as hell. Cyno alts, mining alts, R&D alts, production slots all of this must be excluded from those accounts. CCP dug their own hole all those years trying to squeeze more revenue from their customers by making alts so essential. They get no sympathy from me when it comes to alts.
Aminari Talar Banananah Something Fishy. 7	Posted - 2015.06.17 15:10:41 - [76] - Quote Commissar Kate wrote: Aminari Talar wrote: Actually, There is nothing wrong with it at all. It works perfectly fine in many other games (like league of legends). If you can provide an example where one hero in league massively destroys all other hero's because its only "Bought" with "real money" i will give up this point and remove it from the list. other wise its all based on your "experience" getting repeatedly "raped" by someone in some "pay to win game". LoL does not have an ingame economy like EvE has. That's the issue. LoL is also a MOBA not a sandbox MMO. Please stop comparing them. We are not debating if the game is a moba or has an economy, stop beating around the bush and trying to say that these things have any reflection on the fact that a "item shop" is bad. Your deflection from the fact that there is many games out there with item shops, trying to hide behind the banner of genre does not prove that item shops are all pay to win, and even if you could prove something like that, that does not make it the case here considering there is "always exceptions to the rule". your deflection to this is nothing more then a pathetic attempt to invalidate a perfectly rewarding system to both players and studio's a like.
Pixie Tickle Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 14	Posted - 2015.06.17 15:18:51 - [77] - Quote Aminari Talar wrote: Commissar Kate wrote: Aminari Talar wrote: Actually, There is nothing wrong with it at all. It works perfectly fine in many other games (like league of legends). If you can provide an example where one hero in league massively destroys all other hero's because its only "Bought" with "real money" i will give up this point and remove it from the list. other wise its all based on your "experience" getting repeatedly "raped" by someone in some "pay to win game". LoL does not have an ingame economy like EvE has. That's the issue. LoL is also a MOBA not a sandbox MMO. Please stop comparing them. We are not debating if the game is a moba or has an economy, stop beating around the bush and trying to say that these things have any reflection on the fact that a "item shop" is bad. Your deflection from the fact that there is many games out there with item shops, trying to hide behind the banner of genre does not prove that item shops are all pay to win, and even if you could prove something like that, that does not make it the case here considering there is "always exceptions to the rule". your deflection to this is nothing more then a pathetic attempt to invalidate a perfectly rewarding system to both players and studio's a like. Okay so ya come here, post nonsense showing ya don't get the game, post nonsense comparing apples and oranges and keep insulting everyone for not being the same aggressive **** ya are yaself. Way to go man, I'm gonna report this shithole of a thread.
Aminari Talar Banananah Something Fishy. 7	Posted - 2015.06.17 15:19:50 - [78] - Quote The problem is a lot of you have played games by the korean game makers, or studio's like kixeye, blue bytes etc who have intentionally designed their games to be "coined to win". No one is advocating for a system anywhere near that. Adding ships to the item shop, is comparable to league of legends in an identical game to that, as it would only serve to diversity the "meta" mixing up the game play. Its what we call in game design as cyclical balancing systems. The way it works is identical to that system that is currently in eve. It works like this Pilots make build A (which we will call nano-ishtar). Everyone see's that nano ishtars are way better then Build b (which we will call zealot spam). So everyone follows the meta and swaps to build a (nono ishtar) until someone creates build c (shuttles of doom) in which cases everyone follows and the cylce starts over. Eve works on this cycle, just like League works on a similar cylce, what we have seen as a constant however is that its generally cruiser class ships that are in this mix. We never see for example, a fleet spam of night hawks, but we may see some overly powerful battleship spam from time to time. this tells us that command ships are not on par with the other stuff, even though they are excellent at lower levels. This means that in time the meta will probably change to be more balanced when the spam drops and they become more relative to the engagement. Understanding this helps people like you understand how "new ships from the item shop" fits into the meta of the game. New ships means new content, and new means fresh, and we all love a nice clean fresh feeling. It makes the game feel more like league (in terms of new exciting things every two weeks) as opposed to being "oh its just another ishtar". There is nothing wrong with this, its extremely good for the game. The only legit argument placed here is if ccp legit makes these ships more "op" then what ever else, and there is a simple solution to this, just make them equal in stats to hacks but give them new bonus's, Like a hack-ecm hybrid (sorta like a cruiser version of electronic frigates). This like this would be exciting and refreshing to see in eve and they in no way equate to "Pay to win".
Commissar Kate GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 404501	Posted - 2015.06.17 15:20:33 - [79] - Quote So you are perfectly fine with allowing people to buy ships in a cash shop thus bypassing the mining and manufacturing process making these professions meaningless? -k8 My Fanclub
Avaelica Kuershin Paper Cats 171	Posted - 2015.06.17 15:20:52 - [80] - Quote There is indeed something fishy about this thread... the thought the OP is serious. And unless those playing free were barred from thrashers and catalysts... well, anyone can see the implication.
Lan Wang Stillwater Corporation That Escalated Quickly. 793	Posted - 2015.06.17 15:21:17 - [81] - Quote Aminari Talar wrote: Commissar Kate wrote: Aminari Talar wrote: Actually, There is nothing wrong with it at all. It works perfectly fine in many other games (like league of legends). If you can provide an example where one hero in league massively destroys all other hero's because its only "Bought" with "real money" i will give up this point and remove it from the list. other wise its all based on your "experience" getting repeatedly "raped" by someone in some "pay to win game". LoL does not have an ingame economy like EvE has. That's the issue. LoL is also a MOBA not a sandbox MMO. Please stop comparing them. We are not debating if the game is a moba or has an economy, stop beating around the bush and trying to say that these things have any reflection on the fact that a "item shop" is bad. Your deflection from the fact that there is many games out there with item shops, trying to hide behind the banner of genre does not prove that item shops are all pay to win, and even if you could prove something like that, that does not make it the case here considering there is "always exceptions to the rule". your deflection to this is nothing more then a pathetic attempt to invalidate a perfectly rewarding system to both players and studio's a like. you clearly do not understand the mechanics and what everyone tells you about how it will not work. EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding \| Digital Design
Stacy Lone University of Caille Gallente Federation 94	Posted - 2015.06.17 15:37:05 - [82] - Quote Aminari Talar wrote: We are not debating if the game is a moba or has an economy, stop beating around the bush and trying to say that these things have any reflection on the fact that a "item shop" is bad. Your deflection from the fact that there is many games out there with item shops, trying to hide behind the banner of genre does not prove that item shops are all pay to win, and even if you could prove something like that, that does not make it the case here considering there is "always exceptions to the rule". your deflection to this is nothing more then a pathetic attempt to invalidate a perfectly rewarding system to both players and studio's a like. There is a tremendous difference. The first one being that EVE is a persistent universe instead of unrelated sessions is the first important factor. The second, also very important factor is that withing this game, there is a player driven economy. Let's really look at the consequences of making EVE truly F2P: First of all, mineral supply would become virtually unlimited. Need to produce something? Simply make another alt, training him into mining barges "costs" you only 8 days. Even without ISBoxing, you can run 30+ clients manually without problem, when you use retrievers and not covetors. And since you don't need to be "efficient", running rets over covetors will be the better choice since it scales better when using more characters. This would also mean that there is no longer the need to purchase hings from the market, as you can manufacture everything in abundance yourself. You don't even need reasearched BPCs, if your ME isn't that high you simply click once more with all your rets. There is no way to predict how exatcly the market would react to it, but prices would either drop sigificantly due to a massive over-supply, or they would skyrocket because ISK isn't longer the real driving factor behind the economy. it would also mean that loss isn't longer relevant. Lost your ship? No problem, you have 10 more. This would also mean that you do not longer need to think about risk vs. reward. You can always take the highest risk, because the loss does not longer concern you. Small gang PvP would effectively be dead, when you have to assume that someone will drop supers on your 3 cruisers just becaue they can and just because they have 30 clients each running in the background mining them already their next super. EVE would be very different, and it wuldn#t be any fun anymore. Everyone would just pile into supers and titans as fast as they can, with some ppl still needed for heavy interdictors and maybe some subcaps to clear other subcaps, but you can do that with the drones of your carriers. The other big difference you seem to not be able to acknowledge (or don't want to) is that multi-boxing in LoL is much harder, if not nigh-impossible, and even if done only affects one game, while in EVE, you can have as many characters as you wish and still profit from it. Want to be flooded with PI? Create 100 accounts, it not really a problem to maintain PI on them with enough cycles. Need cyno alts? Just train one cyno alt for each solar system in EVE and park him there. Same with hictor alts. If you want to, you can have a hictor alt in every system. Or, if you want to invest in enough time, you can have one super per system logged off. There is no limit as to what you can do. Well, you'd need to organize the accounts properly, but if they all are free, they wouldn't hurt you. If you don't see that all this would severly screw up this game and basically threw all balance out of the window, you are delusional. So, in order to limit what people would actually do, you would need to have another wall. And that would be a paywall. Want to train cyno? Pay $5. Want to fly a super? Pay $120. You'd still pay for the game, either by being cannon fodder and not being able to do what others can do in the game, or by buying into all of these areas of the game. But the game wouldn#t be fair anymore, people who invest more would simply be more powerfull. Because otherwise there is not even the slightest chance that there is even some small glimpse of balancing. So you would only move the paywall from a subscription elsewhere, and all F2P models have shown that F2P games are actually much more expensive for people who want to enjoy a game in full.
Omar Alharazaad Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 1997	Posted - 2015.06.17 15:41:38 - [83] - Quote Never go full Hodor. Ever. Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
Ralph King-Griffin Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance 10135	Posted - 2015.06.17 15:44:04 - [84] - Quote Omar Alharazaad wrote: Never go full Hodor. Ever. Best five word summary of a full thread in ages =]\|[=
Paranoid Loyd 5831	Posted - 2015.06.17 15:46:39 - [85] - Quote 5/10 nicely played "Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata Fix the Prospect!!!
Aminari Talar Banananah Something Fishy. 7	Posted - 2015.06.17 16:02:24 - [86] - Quote Quote: There is no way to predict how exatcly the market would react to it, but prices would either drop sigificantly due to a massive over-supply, or they would skyrocket because ISK isn't longer the real driving factor behind the economy. This would only be the case if people were not losing ships, buying them etc, Its something you seem to keep leaving out. You mention more supply, but not more usage, Do you think people will fly around in pods all day? Don't be single sided, this is generally why we developers dont have conversations on forums like this, because in general people are massively ignorant. Next, lets assume what you say is true, for the sake of argument, Another major problem with this position is you do not consider the idea that ccp can fine tune the mining values, to equate for the population differencial. Do you think that things stay static in this game? that is a delusional position, we adjust when there is a need. There is a full time hired economist handling this games economy (maybe more then one actually). Dont think CCP is not capable of dealing with such things, and for you to advocate against free to play on this bases WHEN THE GAME IS BUILT WITH A REAL MARKET concepts, Is utterly.... insane... Foolish... Ignorant? i cant really pin it, but its like your arguing a moot point for the sake of your personal / whemsical desire of not being in a game with an item shop because of previous repeated ownage pay to win. If you and everyone else left this game, eve would still be successful, because of the amount of people that would come back or to this game. This genre has a HUGE DEMAND... there is no other games out there of note, and eve is the BAR for space sandbox. I am absolutely sure the population will jump back up to 90-110k like it use to be with such a move.
Aminari Talar Banananah Something Fishy. 7	Posted - 2015.06.17 16:05:01 - [87] - Quote To add on top of this. How many dam people do you think it will take to crash the market in this way? Serious i want a number. It cannot be 40-50k because we've already seen these levels in the game and no effect was massively noticed. This means, that we will need AT-LEAST double of that to have any start of a notice of such and effect, and my knowledge and experience tells me its FAR FAR FAR FAR more then that. It's very simple, More players means more production needs, means more buying, means more buying of ore/minerals, means stable market. Its a cyclical nature. You need to break that cycle to get "1,000,000 everything like on sisi". So you advocating any number of players coming to this game destroying the economy, is absolutely 100000% Absurd.
Omar Alharazaad Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 1997	Posted - 2015.06.17 16:38:34 - [88] - Quote what you advocate by including modules and/or ships into your "I buy it mode" is a bypassing of the process of harvesting resources, refining resources, moving resources, processing resources into things, moving things to places, and selling things. This quite literally, in no uncertain terms, breaks the economy. You are not as smart as you think you are. Your idea is bad, you need to accept it as such, and you need to apologize to the rest of the world for being as bad as you are. Get better soon. Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
Crest Zah Donartal Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 313	Posted - 2015.06.17 16:46:19 - [89] - Quote Free To Play, was, is and ever will be be a stupid idea.
Carrie-Anne Moss Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 205	Posted - 2015.06.17 16:54:29 - [90] - Quote Lord Of The Rings Online is free to play. I like Lord Of The Rings
Kestral Anneto The Founding Four Fidelas Constans 69	Posted - 2015.06.17 16:55:31 - [91] - Quote No, just NO. Do you honestly want a huge wave of mouth breathing CoD players that collectively dont have an IQ higher than a lemon coming to EvE? I mean, REALLY? They have dumbed the game down enough, without catering to the whines of those kind of people that find it mentally challanging to get out of bed in the morning. It would be bad for EvE, us, CCP and gaming in general.
Pixie Tickle Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 14	Posted - 2015.06.17 16:56:06 - [92] - Quote Carrie-Anne Moss wrote: Lord Of The Rings Online is free to play. I like Lord Of The Rings Go is free to play. I like Go.
Mithandra Catastrophic Operations Get Off My Lawn 327	Posted - 2015.06.17 17:12:30 - [93] - Quote I stopped reading at "you guys are idiots" Back under your bridge Eve is the dark haired, totally hot emo gothchild of the gaming community
Aza Ebanu Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 170	Posted - 2015.06.17 17:29:35 - [94] - Quote Anthar Thebess wrote: But why when there can be subscription to play this game? Tbh , eve will never be like LOL (never played) but i guess you don't need to train a character for a year to finally start to get some fun and not thinking what you need to degrade in your fit. Simple example : Eve have live industry and ton's of free accounts will simply kill it almost instantly. Why ? Afk miner for every one. Afk producer for every one PI on 400 chars? So, currently EVE is pay to win based on the amount of accounts you can afford?
Lan Wang Stillwater Corporation That Escalated Quickly. 796	Posted - 2015.06.17 17:31:57 - [95] - Quote Aza Ebanu wrote: Anthar Thebess wrote: But why when there can be subscription to play this game? Tbh , eve will never be like LOL (never played) but i guess you don't need to train a character for a year to finally start to get some fun and not thinking what you need to degrade in your fit. Simple example : Eve have live industry and ton's of free accounts will simply kill it almost instantly. Why ? Afk miner for every one. Afk producer for every one PI on 400 chars? So, currently EVE is pay to win based on the amount of accounts you can afford? Basically you are not wrong, making it free will destroy the balance EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding \| Digital Design
DaReaper Net 7 2217	Posted - 2015.06.17 18:00:27 - [96] - Quote Adding tot he chorus. Hell no. I am perfectly ok with services, ship skins, station skins, clothing, pos skins, CQ decorations, etc being paid for in microtransactions. I have zero issues with that. if someone wants to play space babribe then cool, ccp gets more money, eve last longer, i'm good. Going total FTP will not only kill eve, but is a stupid idea. So no OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
Tyrone Arran Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 20	Posted - 2015.06.17 18:51:37 - [97] - Quote EvE is a niche game. Making EvE f2p would be an attempt at making it a main stream game. Which is something that I do not think/hope CCP is interested in and wouldn't work well anyways. At least not without some serious alterations to EvE at it's core. It would need WAY more hand-hold and roller coaster features to guide the player base. Sure we would all like to see 'healthier' numbers, but the fact is that this game is not for everyone. I feel that making this game free to play would initially have an influx of new players, but honestly not the type that would stick around very long. Most of the new accounts that would stick around would be from current players making an UNLIMITED number of alts for every little aspect of the game. As for returning players, I would bet that most of the players that left the game did not so because they could not afford the $15 a month.
Harrison Tato Yamato Holdings 390	Posted - 2015.06.17 19:17:22 - [98] - Quote Captain Awkward wrote: In my opinion, CCP does not even want more players into the game atm. I looks like a lot of established players feel the same way. Don't want a bunch of new people competing for their rice bowl.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 23941	Posted - 2015.06.17 19:18:31 - [99] - Quote Aminari Talar wrote: CCP Would be totally fine if their itemshop had - Ships - New Models Nope, with the very few exceptions every item in this game is player generated, miners mine for minerals, market traders buy and sell those minerals to producers who make stuff, what you're proposing completely bypasses one of the fundamental foundations of a player driven economy; it's also against the very ethos of Eve. Quote: You players should advocate freely and fairly for this system. Why would we advocate for something that most of us don't want any part of? Quote: Just because you have been burnt in the past, does not mean you have WILL be burnt here with an item shop... AND IT TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE AND UNFAIR OF YOU TO SAY THAT CCP HAS THIS INTENTION[/b] You're wrong, a few years back we were categorically told that microtransactions was not a route CCP would go down; less than a year later we had microtransactions via the NES, that weren't so micro. With that in mind it would be totally acceptable and fair for us to assume that CCP has exactly the intention you say they haven't if they were to discuss going F2P. We had that discussion with them during the summer of rage, it took weeks to get a promise of no golden ammo and ships from CCP. Eve is a single shard universe, a sudden influx of players would stress the current hardware to its limits. CCP are running a cutting edge system that also happens to be one of the largest and most cutting edge supercomputers in the gaming industry, the only way other companies manage huge numbers is to split the game into shards. CCP cannot, should not and will not do this, simplybecause it's game-breaking. TL;DR You don't have the experience with Eve, or the knowledge of how the current systems work to be suggesting "improvements", especially ones that most others feel are to the detriment of a game they've put years into. Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Vic Jefferson The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple 399	Posted - 2015.06.17 19:21:09 - [100] - Quote Show me an FTP game that has a life expectancy beyond a year or two. Going FTP would basically mean the game is finished and just trying to harvest whale money before it implodes. Part of the reason EvE has permanence is because time and characters are somewhat limited resources. Almost every MMO I can think of that has switched to FTP collapsed within a year or so. Here's the scoop. Want to grow EvE? Okay, that's a good goal. How you do it? It's important to make getting into the game slightly easier, for sure, but the better way to do it? Make. Veterans. Happy. Stop pissing them off, fix and refine the things that keep them logging in. I'm not going to put out a full grocery list of things here, but things like ship balance, the toxic speed meta, balance of risk/reward between security sectors, and easier tools to find ways to get involved. The game is what you put into it at the end of the day. No amount of tutorials, gimmicks, walkthroughs, or opportunities will even come close to what a happy veteran can do as far as new player training and recruitment. Your best tools for getting new players are the current players - make them happy, make them want to get more friends into the game. Look at all the reddit based organizations - that is a lot of players. You'd break EvE if you made it have mass appeal out of the box. You need to cultivate patience and an appreciation for what EvE is in new players, and the very best way to do that, is have veterans happy with the game, make them want to share New Eden with other people. I started this game with a few other friends from other MMOs. They all quit after essentially leveling their ravens; the game was dry and seemed very distant from what was described by all the lore on the internet. The only reason I stuck with it is becasue I found people to play with in game - you NEED veterans to get new players to want to stick with the game until they actually like it, and get to the potentially interesting bits. You gain subs when you make your veterans happy. Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X
Constantin Baracca Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 934	Posted - 2015.06.17 19:30:12 - [101] - Quote There are quite a few reasons this shouldn't happen. The best one is that the PLEX system, which the OP dismissed, is a far better director of monetary action than F2P is. With F2P, it's a slurry. Some people put money in, some people play free, and you hope everything equals out. When it doesn't, more (and more necessary) items appear on the shop to monetize it. That's where the P2W idea comes from; it's the natural outgrowth of the system. Presently, PLEX facilitates the same action, only it does so directly. Players "contribute" to the game, using themselves as assets (as they are capable) and generate ISK. Players then buy the ISK if they have extra funds. One person does more work, one person pays his way in. If less people are doing the work, fewer people will buy in. If less people want to spend extra money, fewer people pay their way in. It's direct and a far more efficient system. The question isn't what we should change with the monetary system, it's what we deserve for our money. The recent atrophy of the subscription model may simply be held up to game design. Many F2P and B2P game developers are putting more work into their games, which puts a squeeze on the old maxim about getting more for your sub. EVE has an advantage in that department; they don't charge us to purchase much developed content outside our subscriptions. EVE's major issue isn't whether it's worth the money, it's how many people the money is worth it to. There just aren't as many players getting what they want out of EVE and, F2P or not, they're being given a lot more options. CCP's biggest issue at present is getting more people to play and play for an extended period of time. Unfortunately, F2P is the easiest way to perhaps solve that problem. It doesn't actually make the game better, it just makes the game functionally worthless. I say it's unfortunate because I don't think anything but a fairly huge development action is going to solve EVE's problems, and I'm not sure CCP values the strength of the game over the ease of design manipulation. Here's hoping, though. "What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?" -Matthew 16:26
0bama Barack Hussein Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 21	Posted - 2015.06.17 19:34:08 - [102] - Quote With these costs (servers, no P2P or anything like that, and company only for one game), i doubt it could be sustainable with these numbers. But i bet it has already been said, sry i runned out of time and popcorn.
Jaclyn Hayes Perkone Caldari State 3	Posted - 2015.06.17 19:39:36 - [103] - Quote Eve costs 15 euro a month. 15 goddam euro. How's that even expensive? It costs less than a lunch for 2 in a restaurant. F2P would only bring mess into eve. F2P would kill eve. And "free to play" isn't actually "free to play", you would be "playing free" for AT LEAST 15 euro a month OR MORE. Actually, eve is already free to play, if you play actively 1 bil for a plex is a joke.
0bama Barack Hussein Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 21	Posted - 2015.06.17 19:44:10 - [104] - Quote I guess problem here is that other games (even space games like ED or SC), costs that 15 euro times 3 for LIFE.
Pixie Tickle Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 16	Posted - 2015.06.17 19:59:05 - [105] - Quote Jaclyn Hayes wrote: Eve costs 15 euro a month. 15 goddam euro. How's that even expensive? It costs less than a lunch for 2 in a restaurant. F2P would only bring mess into eve. F2P would kill eve. And "free to play" isn't actually "free to play", you would be "playing free" for AT LEAST 15 euro a month OR MORE. Actually, eve is already free to play, if you play actively 1 bil for a plex is a joke. Can't agree. Minerals I mine aren't free. Just the stolen ones. ;) Anyone who isn't willing to spend 15bux even once definitely isn't a good customer. OP doesn't have a clue about why games go f2p. Me thinks he's a liar. No game designer is that stupid. Sounds more like the type of person who wastes money in games just to boost his ego. Reality is that it's about milking the easily milkable and that's the bottom line, no matter how ya wanna spin it. He hasn't spent a single second thinkin' 'bout the type o' scum f2p games attract.
La Rynx School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 244	Posted - 2015.06.17 20:01:20 - [106] - Quote ftp for eve would kill it. thats all. eve s economy would collapse. OP already said it, but he does not accept the solution! EvE is already ftp. Sure, you have to pu effort into it, but thats one of the reasons EvE is stll alive. ftp factors do notbwork since often you are not close enough to look at your ship. sknins exist, so what would the OP like to sell? thats the most stupid ive seen for some time. OP might be a game developer, but has no clue how the money is made he earns. :p "Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time." Forum Main
Jaclyn Hayes Perkone Caldari State 3	Posted - 2015.06.17 20:03:10 - [107] - Quote 0bama Barack *** wrote: I guess problem (in OP-¦s mind) here is that other games (even space games like ED or SC), costs that 15 euro times 3 for LIFE. step 1: Get either a vindicator, machariel, Nightmare or scimitar step 2: Do incursions a few hours a month step 3: ???? Step 4: Eve free to play.
La Rynx School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 245	Posted - 2015.06.17 20:06:51 - [108] - Quote Jaclyn Hayes wrote: 0bama Barack *** wrote: I guess problem (in OP-¦s mind) here is that other games (even space games like ED or SC), costs that 15 euro times 3 for LIFE. step 1: Get either a vindicator, machariel, Nightmare or scimitar step 2: Do incursions a few hours a month step 3: ???? Step 4: Eve free to play. hell you can even get as much by mining... And like someone wrote already. going ftp isbthe first sign of an mmo going to die. "Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time." Forum Main
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 23948	Posted - 2015.06.17 20:09:16 - [109] - Quote La Rynx wrote: ftp for eve would kill it. thats all. eve s economy would collapse. OP already said it, but he does not accept the solution! EvE is already ftp. Sure, you have to pu effort into it, but thats one of the reasons EvE is stll alive. ftp factors do notbwork since often you are not close enough to look at your ship. sknins exist, so what would the OP like to sell? thats the most stupid ive seen for some time. OP might be a game developer, but has no clue how the money is made he earns. :p For once, you and I are on the same page. Either hell just froze over, or the premise of the topic is about as terrible as it gets. OP take note, when I, and several others are agreeing with people, such as Lucas and La Rynx, who we invariably and vehemently disagree with; there's something very badly wrong with your idea. Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
La Rynx School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 245	Posted - 2015.06.17 20:11:14 - [110] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: La Rynx wrote: ftp for eve would kill it. thats all. eve s economy would collapse. OP already said it, but he does not accept the solution! EvE is already ftp. Sure, you have to pu effort into it, but thats one of the reasons EvE is stll alive. ftp factors do notbwork since often you are not close enough to look at your ship. sknins exist, so what would the OP like to sell? thats the most stupid ive seen for some time. OP might be a game developer, but has no clue how the money is made he earns. :p For once, you and I are on the same page. Either hell just froze over, or the premise of the topic is about as terrible as it gets. OP take note, when I, and several others are agreeing with people, such as Lucas and La Rynx, who we invariably and vehemently disagree with; there's something very badly wrong with your idea. I agree completly... seriously! no pun, no joke! "Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time." Forum Main
Lan Wang Stillwater Corporation That Escalated Quickly. 801	Posted - 2015.06.17 20:12:08 - [111] - Quote Aminari Talar wrote: To add on top of this. How many dam people do you think it will take to crash the market in this way? Serious i want a number. It cannot be 40-50k because we've already seen these levels in the game and no effect was massively noticed. This means, that we will need AT-LEAST double of that to have any start of a notice of such and effect, and my knowledge and experience tells me its FAR FAR FAR FAR more then that. It's very simple, More players means more production needs, means more buying, means more buying of ore/minerals, means stable market. Its a cyclical nature. You need to break that cycle to get "1,000,000 everything like on sisi". So you advocating any number of players coming to this game destroying the economy, is absolutely 100000% Absurd. because people can afford to run 20+ alts for mining and making isk, because the game is free, running incursions and everything else for making stacks of isk, all apart from market where people will not do it because no isk to be made in trading, and because your f2p playerbase all run bots support will no longer care because it now needs that playerbase, lack of support means no more updates, so hello botting, hello market crash, hello themepark, bye bye eve online EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding \| Digital Design
La Rynx School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 246	Posted - 2015.06.17 20:19:44 - [112] - Quote I almost forgot: the Overlord of MMOs WoW / Blizzard tries to adopt the PLEX System? Why would the most succesful game / Company do that? And no WoW is not ftp either, you can just play the lowest levels for free and be stuck forever in the starter regions. "Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time." Forum Main
Pixie Tickle Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 20	Posted - 2015.06.17 20:20:22 - [113] - Quote I'm lovin' how we all unite against this crap. Even La Rouge up there and that Otto guy.
Unezka Turigahl Det Som Engang Var 785	Posted - 2015.06.17 20:23:52 - [114] - Quote GankYou wrote: Even a game like ESO by Bethesda/ZeniMax recently converted to Buy-to-Play. Yeah, ESO went F2P because it's crap.
Webvan All Kill No Skill 9921	Posted - 2015.06.17 20:24:09 - [115] - Quote Aminari Talar wrote: population of this game wil explode Well I can agree with that part. I've seen it here before, nasty business. I counter propose that all new subscriptions undertake a rigorous IQ test.
Pixie Tickle Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 21	Posted - 2015.06.17 20:36:03 - [116] - Quote Webvan wrote: Aminari Talar wrote: population of this game wil explode Well I can agree with that part. I've seen it here before, nasty business. I counter propose that all new subscriptions undertake a rigorous IQ test. Hell yeah Jita riots all over the place!
Constantin Baracca Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 934	Posted - 2015.06.17 20:50:47 - [117] - Quote 0bama Barack *** wrote: I guess problem (in OP-¦s mind) here is that other games (even space games like ED or SC), costs that 15 euro times 3 for LIFE. Maybe true in theory, but in practice, someone has to pay their, and someone else's, fifteen dollars a month all the same. And those people will want some return for paying so much to play the game on behalf of other people. They might ask what it is that they can be sold that often that will give them that return. The second they can't spend that money, there's no more life in the game. Either someone's paying an awful lot more, or the game has no income. So it's not free to play. Unfortunately, this would have worked out of the system if people weren't lining up to pay more that for whatever they could buy. I never understood why we, as a consumer market, ever made that okay. Now even subscription games have markets for real-cash items. I mean, we, the playing public, practically begged games to stop focusing so much on gameplay and fleece us. It wasn't like fifteen dollars was ever more than dinner for two at Wendy's, it was never expensive. EVE especially so, because they don't charge for expansions or barely anything for the game's initial purchase anymore. I don't understand it, but, like I said earlier, game makers don't go F2P for any reason than it's the most expedient way to make more money without improving the game. It's a lot easier to make your game free and convince a smaller percentage of poor saps that some skins and costumes are worth more than people were paying for the entire game. "What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?" -Matthew 16:26
Trajan Unknown Agony Unleashed Agony Empire 53	Posted - 2015.06.17 21:00:12 - [118] - Quote Ralph King-Griffin wrote: Subscription mmo's go free to play when the publisher realize the game isn't worth paying for I.e. when they die. Eve is worth paying for, I would like it to remain so. No. /thread
O Wren Perkone Caldari State 3	Posted - 2015.06.17 21:03:14 - [119] - Quote Seems OP has already burnt himself out on all the other FTP piles of crape that have short lifespans (probably much like his attention span also) and an endless supply of toxic angry children flinging mommies plastic on everything. If you live on a street with 10 places to eat and 9 of them are burger joints why o why would you want the pizza place to convert to burgers too. In my many years on this planet I have learned that children that really really want what they want can come up with the most elaborate and detailed "reasons" they should get what they want. They can be very convincing and it's a relief to see that hardly anyone in this forum is fooled by his walls of glittery text. EvE is a unique gaming experience. I have played and paid for so many other mmo's since before and after I started this game in 07 and this game has always seemed like the home you grew up in to me. Every time I get burned or bummed out because another game gets boring or has lost any form of challenge, goes F2P >:( I know I can come home to where logic and the thrill of victory still means something. EvE has been a constant in my gaming experience and every time I come back home I find something new. It has survived this long with a solid player base. Sure, the way stuff goes anymore is the "gotta have it now or else" thought path but I feel pretty confident that people will tire of simple theme park mmo's and the quick gratification and eventually crave a challenge once again and I hope EvE will always be there for them and for me <3 Fly safe o7
Darek Castigatus Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel 665	Posted - 2015.06.17 21:34:09 - [120] - Quote O Wren wrote: Seems OP has already burnt himself out on all the other FTP piles of crape that have short lifespans (probably much like his attention span also) and an endless supply of toxic angry children flinging mommies plastic on everything. If you live on a street with 10 places to eat and 9 of them are burger joints why o why would you want the pizza place to convert to burgers too. In my many years on this planet I have learned that children that really really want what they want can come up with the most elaborate and detailed "reasons" they should get what they want. They can be very convincing and it's a relief to see that hardly anyone in this forum is fooled by his walls of glittery text. EvE is a unique gaming experience. I have played and paid for so many other mmo's since before and after I started this game in 07 and this game has always seemed like the home you grew up in to me. Every time I get burned or bummed out because another game gets boring or has lost any form of challenge, goes F2P >:( I know I can come home to where logic and the thrill of victory still means something. EvE has been a constant in my gaming experience and every time I come back home I find something new. It has survived this long with a solid player base. Sure, the way stuff goes anymore is the "gotta have it now or else" thought path but I feel pretty confident that people will tire of simple theme park mmo's and the quick gratification and eventually crave a challenge once again and I hope EvE will always be there for them and for me <3 Fly safe o7 Or hes just trolling....very very badly. Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin you're welcome
Ralph King-Griffin Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance 10162	Posted - 2015.06.17 21:41:41 - [121] - Quote Darek Castigatus wrote: Or hes just trolling....very very badly. well if he is trolling its an easy 6 7 / 10 (and counting)...not soo bad if you ask me =]\|[=
Darek Castigatus Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel 665	Posted - 2015.06.17 21:45:02 - [122] - Quote Ralph King-Griffin wrote: Darek Castigatus wrote: Or hes just trolling....very very badly. well if he is trolling its an easy 6 7 / 10 (and counting)...not soo bad if you ask me I think I'm just less generous with my troll marks than you are Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin you're welcome
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode ISD Community Communications Liaisons 5866	Posted - 2015.06.17 22:39:01 - [123] - Quote Quote: Forum rules 3. Ranting is prohibited. A rant is a post that is often filled with angry and counterproductive comments. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and is helpful in development of the game and community. Rants are disruptive, and incite flaming and trolling. Please post your thoughts in a concise and clear manner while avoiding going off on rambling tangents. 5. Trolling is prohibited. Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive, and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote. Closed. ISD Dorrim Barstorlode Vice Admiral Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department

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