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Aloysius Knight Minmatar Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.24 09:46:00 - [1] "The Hurricane is a great ship, one of my favorites actually. If you're having problem making it work, ask someone who is using it effectively how they have it set up." -Tux very well tux, after hours and hours of testing setups i give in, how do u set this ship up? im at a total loss as to how u can clame it works, every other BC rapes this thing to get close to the dps we had before the over the top nerf we need to max out assult missiles (great like minmatar need another ship that needs 2x the SP for 1/2 the gain) this ship was perfect, there was nothing wroung with it, it was the very definiton of minmatar, but 1 setup and you lacking the brainpower to think meant it got nerfed into the stone age what setup was this? why the dual med rep +1600mm tank and 7 t2 180mm hmmm lets see, how could we fix that? 1) increase the poweruse of 1600mm plates and drop the grid of the hurricain by 50 power if needed or we have tuxs all time favort "bend minmatar over and shove a pinapple in any hole he can find" i give in, how do u set this ship up? and why do we have to have yet another project + missile ***** ship? why in all thats minmatar can't we have A GOD AC BOAT!!!!!!, now we have to train 2 rank 5 skills to get back to the dps we had before the nerf, wow thanks tux time and time again u show to the world of eve u have no idea how to balance things, instead u blindly charge into things and hope that no one will kick up a fuss when u ** up. -Aloysuis, fallen minmatar pilot, now training geylentie http://www.stevie.prince.dsl.pipex.com/AloysiusKnight.jpg http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/2107/nodecrashsiggb9.jpg Chose one, you must. Two is the way of pure ebilness, and pure ebilness is bad -ReverendM
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.24 09:51:00 - [2] Lets not whine, lets try to make the ship work. I havent been able to find a close combat setup that works against the Myrmidon, so im trying to stay at 18k when fighting one, and using Barrage and hitting into heavy falloff (REALLY bad damage) until ive killed the drones. I havent succeeded with that tactic yet though... there is A LOT of drones from the myrmidon if he mixes heavy and mediums. But I think there are good setups... maybe with artillery. Ill try that next. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Tachy	Posted - 2006.11.24 09:58:00 - [3] Tux wins with it by strapping it on a stick and throwing the javelin at your computer ... Maybe he goes the all out ECM and Nos road with the drones or friends killing the target? We could not make the ship work for PvP. For missions it works kinda good. Tank it up to the max, eat the webbers and scramblers so you can warp out if your tank is close to breaking. Well, it performs just as good as the Cyclone for twice the cost. --==*-- The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing. by Sharkbait \| 2006.09.20
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.11.24 09:59:00 - [4] Originally by: Jim McGregor Lets not whine, lets try to make the ship work. That's been tried over and over again. It's time to give in. I agree with Aloysius. Scrapheap Challenge Forums
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.24 10:02:00 - [5] Originally by: Testy Mctest Originally by: Jim McGregor Lets not whine, lets try to make the ship work. That's been tried over and over again. It's time to give in. I agree with Aloysius. I dont think the Hurricane would have a chance against the Myrmidon even with 7 turrets tbh. There is just no way to break his cap injected tank when he also gets a bonus to reppers and also have superior damage while the drones are alive. But ill keep trying. Its a hard challenge. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Tara Ryala Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2006.11.24 11:04:00 - [6] I agree, with 7 turrets finally Minmatar pilots had a good autocannon ship that didn't require 6 months of support skill training to fly well, and could hold it's own in combat against similar sized ships. Now what? As far as I can see it gets massacred by every other new battlecruiser out there - hell even the original Brutix had 7 turret hardpoints, but apparently Minmatar don't get that luxury
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.24 11:08:00 - [7] Originally by: Tara Ryala As far as I can see it gets massacred by every other new battlecruiser out there Why do you think the forums got so silent about battlecruiser balancing recently? Because gallente is happy now. Its the truth. Just face it. When the Hurricane cant beat the others, the game feels balanced to the other races, while minmatar with its very few players dont get noticed. I still feel the Hurricane is highly sub-par compared to the Myrmidon and the Harbinger, but ive already explained why in other threads. And getting attacked a lot while doing it, of course. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
keepiru Supernova Security Systems	Posted - 2006.11.24 11:16:00 - [8] Hmh. The Hurricane is pretty much the only BC that can regularly whup my Harbinger's shiney-gold-foil-with-inlay-lapis-flames butt on a regular basis? Mind you, I've been steering well clear of FD for the last week or so, but I tried havign a go at Soren's 'cane and he kicked me so hard I changed avatar... But I'd disagree with the change purely for the reason that the supposedly "overpowered" setup isn't nerfed at all, if it didn't also wreck the ship as an artillery platform. ---------------- Kali ships worth flying left: Harbinger, Rokh. Only 2 left tux, you can make it!
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.24 11:21:00 - [9] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 24/11/2006 11:22:28 Originally by: keepiru Hmh. The Hurricane is pretty much the only BC that can regularly whup my Harbinger's shiney-gold-foil-with-inlay-lapis-flames butt on a regular basis? Just because your Harbinger gets beaten by someones Hurricane once doesnt really say much about the balancing. Let me pick a quote from another thread: Originally by: Atar I've tested the Hurricane with both 7 and 6 turrets, and with 7 I could take on a Harbringer and lose some and win some, now with just 6 I lose every time, it needs the 7th back and it would be fine. 7 turrets, no launcher, no powergrid change, just the turret. But the real problem is the Myrmidon. Dont even get me started on that one... --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
keepiru Supernova Security Systems	Posted - 2006.11.24 11:34:00 - [10] The Myrm is yet another case of completely misguided change. More DPS was not needed. What was needed was drone backups. Smart people who asked for a large drone bay realized this implied 5 heavies with the current mechanics, and therefore asked that a few turrets takes be off, possibly a high, and some grid, in order to prevent the ship turning into a stupidiwinmobile. Instead they give it 125m3, it still has more grid than a Brutix, and it still has 6 guns/highs. Its just a repeat of the other BC changes, which is to say makes very little sense. The same kind of senseless change happened to the others - you realize Jav HAMs STILL go 100km on SISI, right? ---------------- Kali ships worth flying left: Harbinger, Rokh. Only 2 left tux, you can make it!

Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.11.24 11:42:00 - [11] Originally by: keepiru The same kind of senseless change happened to the others - you realize Jav HAMs STILL go 100km on SISI, right? Yeah, this is actually making me worried they think thats balanced and keeping it... --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2006.11.24 12:02:00 - [12] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: keepiru The same kind of senseless change happened to the others - you realize Jav HAMs STILL go 100km on SISI, right? Yeah, this is actually making me worried they think thats balanced and keeping it... Hey, if it took almost a year to nerf javelin torps, why can't javelin HAMs remain "omfgloveoverpoweredyaythankgodimcaldari" for about a year or so too ? _____ -sig- This is my only char. These are my skills Always question everything, including yourself
Tiuwaz Minmatar Omacron Militia	Posted - 2006.11.24 12:44:00 - [13] Edited by: Tiuwaz on 24/11/2006 12:44:26 hurricane is still a decent ship, but among the new bc's its now just playing in the lower ranks and if drake gets back it rof bonus (which i think it should) then its dead last of the new bc's Waaay to go, 6 turrets and 2 launchers are looking aesthetically better but thats of little comfort if you get blown up Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
Imba Bambi	Posted - 2006.11.24 13:02:00 - [14] Edited by: Imba Bambi on 24/11/2006 13:04:03 wow the more I am reading the more I am disgusted. I honestly planned to come back to EvE, especially after having received the 14-day free play time and enjoyed the prospect of Kali. However, balance seems to be more distant than ever. The fitting advice in my alliance forum for the Maelstrom is Hi: Recycle Mid: Build Tempest Low: Buy mods for the 60m difference Completely useless bonuses. Alpha strike nerfed, fallout bonus which we used in short range crippled (Barrage nerf), long range dictated by Rokh. New BC doesnt look better after reading this thread. And the most annoying thing is: Tuxford basically calling the Minni community incompetent by claiming that he is able to "waste their asses" against all proven graphs and statistics. He doesnt even recognize the problem. The awfully low balancing time means we will see a turn to the better - if at all - in a very distant future.
Shadowsword Gallente COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2006.11.24 13:35:00 - [15] Originally by: Aloysius Knight ...stuff... what setup was this? why the dual med rep +1600mm tank and 7 t2 180mm hmmm lets see, how could we fix that? 1) increase the poweruse of 1600mm plates and drop the grid of the hurricain by 50 power if needed or we have tuxs all time favort "bend minmatar over and shove a pinapple in any hole he can find" You don't need to think for long to find out what SHOULD get the nerf bat: T2 med AC guns: between 88 and 154 PG, range/DPS less when dowgrading so small it's barely noticeable. T2 med pulse lasers: between 132 and 236 PG, signifiant range and DPS loss when downgrading. T2 med blasters: between 105 and 236 PG, signifiant range and DPS loss when downgrading. As long as you have that issue, ships meant to be artillery boats will get turned into overpowered plated AC boats. Minmatars will never get really balanced until you remove that possibility, and the proper's way to do it is to increase the PG requirements of AC, not plates's. ------------------------------------------ Every ship has a base 60-70% resist against the primary damage type of the race that is the least able to vary it's damage types.
Mirasta Caldari Enigma Enterprises Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.11.24 13:36:00 - [16] Its a shame hearing all this really, i was looking forward to traning minmatar skills because this seemd a really intresting ship. Oh well ill just have to train and get a stabber instead. Of couse, You are now reading my sig.
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolance	Posted - 2006.11.24 13:41:00 - [17] Edited by: madaluap on 24/11/2006 13:41:59 Maybe its just me, but i fitted the ship with 7* 220mm vulcan 2 1* dimishing nos 10mn mwd web disrupter injector medium armor rep 1600mm plate eam eam gyrostab and 2X explosive rigs... I guess ill just downgrade to 180mm and still have a good time wasting drake 2 vs 1 and stuff like that... It was some time ago though, not sure how many slots it has again _________________________________________________
Chode Rizoum Minmatar Finite Horizon The Red Skull	Posted - 2006.11.24 13:44:00 - [18] big stabber.. 6 x 220 II 2 x nos/missiles 2 x large extender * ye i know it will be big... but lots of hp * 1 x 20 k disrupter 1 x 10mn mwd 3 x gyro 3 x nano
slothe Caldari Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.11.24 13:44:00 - [19] let me copy what people say about KALI deimos and apply it here to the Hurricaine .. " it was never meant to be a solopwnmobile it works fine in gangs" .......... great consolation isnt it
Al Haquis Minmatar Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.24 13:45:00 - [20] Contact Annu ingame and let him teach you how to use superior ships. There is a Hurrican incomming. W00t. With love from Al Haquis

Tiuwaz Minmatar Omacron Militia	Posted - 2006.11.24 13:47:00 - [21] Originally by: Imba Bambi The fitting advice in my alliance forum for the Maelstrom is Hi: Recycle Mid: Build Tempest Low: Buy mods for the 60m difference it would be funny if it wasnt so true maelstrom makes me wanna cry Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
xVx Scarecrow Minmatar	Posted - 2006.11.24 15:39:00 - [22] It just seems that with tux graphs, charts, pie graphs, pie charts, bar graphs, charts, wiggle lines, straight lines, wiggle straight lines and finges.... where was i?? Oh yea.. with all the charts seems like minni always get um... abused from all corners. so i say he takes a year and trains a minni 100% minni char and sees what happens
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2006.11.24 15:43:00 - [23] Originally by: Imba Bambi Hi: Recycle Mid: Build Tempest Low: Buy mods for the 60m difference Reminds me of the Drake, only you just buy a Raven insteadsince unless you train for a CBC you have only one reason to train for BCs, AFKing through lvl 3 missions. Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Pan Crastus	Posted - 2006.11.24 20:22:00 - [24] Originally by: Tachy Tux wins with it by strapping it on a stick and throwing the javelin at your computer ... No. He flies Caldari and Gallente and likes the Hurricane now because he can beat it easily.
Aeaus Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.11.24 20:34:00 - [25] Really, just really funny. You lose 14% of your DPS and suddenly your ship is completely useless. The minmatar issue over this ship isn't that it isn't good now, but that you were given a nice piece of canday and had it taken away at the last minute in return for a balanced combat ship. I am not a big minmatar player myself, but so far I have use it as a big stabber/vagabond and would simply beat the absolute crap out of other BCs. Dictate range, dicrate transversal, it makes for a good ship. Last Weeks Signature
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.11.24 20:42:00 - [26] I pretty much said the same thing in the revelations thread. 1600mm plates need to take 700pg and add 50% more mass then oversized armor plates will be a thing of the past for cruisers unless you are looking for an obscene tank. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Tzarkan Tzeench	Posted - 2006.11.24 20:42:00 - [27] Originally by: Pan Crastus Originally by: Tachy Tux wins with it by strapping it on a stick and throwing the javelin at your computer ... No. He flies Caldari and Gallente and likes the Hurricane now because he can beat it easily. ahahahaha ahaha nice joke there heheh... if you think he still flies caldari after he just slaughtered the drake...
Noriath	Posted - 2006.11.24 20:43:00 - [28] The thing is, in Eve gank always wins out over tank, whoever can dish out more damage usually wins the fight, so a reduction of 14% that seems small is acctually a big deal. I think reducing the guns is stupid, reducing its ability to fly around with a 1600 plate would be more needed somehow...
Vivien Voy	Posted - 2006.11.24 21:44:00 - [29] Edited by: Vivien Voy on 24/11/2006 21:44:38 Originally by: Jim McGregor But the real problem is the Myrmidon. Dont even get me started on that one... seems one can try to remain objective, argue with a huge data set of observations, experience, graphs, and whatnot, doesn't matter - the Gallente crowd will ***** and moan, cry foul, flame you and everyone who points out that some of their ships seem to be too much above others in their class or that players' ideas of "fixing" the slightly underperforming (some say balanced) Gallente ships would just create more overpowered boats, but unlike whatever other players (namely Amarr and to a lesser degree, Minnie) tried in the past months, this concentrated whining EVEN PAYS OFF. That they get good ships isn't the problem, I'm not one of the idiots who claim "my ships suck, therefore yours should too", but seriously, I have lost ALL faith in Tux and his team being able to balance EVE ships, what they pulled in the very limited time of public Kali testing is well beyond my imagination. Now Tux even claims he's happy with how stuff turned out, and he has nothing better to do than act all childish and call people names who try to argue that his latest acts of "balancing" were stupid. And that makes me really sad, because initially I thought they'd be on the right track (at least with their new BCs) and that they'd be interested in bringing other slightly imbalanced ships back in line. Not anymore, and Tux' "I'm right and you're stupid" attitude seriously ****es me off - I don't like blaming developers of online games but he seems to be playing a totally different game than we do also, if one ship is pwning most of the time unless it's fitted or piloted badly, while others need to pull ALL tricks in their books and fly with a perfect fit just to have a chance, something's terribly broken in my opinion. Of course, all the Gallente fanboys would argue otherwise, and we can't even expect help from the balance team because the dev responsable for this mess thinks everything's fine. Yeah right...
Beringe Caldari Raptus Regaliter	Posted - 2006.11.24 22:12:00 - [30] Originally by: Pan Crastus Originally by: Tachy Tux wins with it by strapping it on a stick and throwing the javelin at your computer ... No. He flies Caldari and Gallente and likes the Hurricane now because he can beat it easily. Yes, clearly the developer responsible for ship balancing only ever flies two races, and has huge bias for whatever you assume he flies with the many characters he has. Of course, he's not the only dev responsible for this, so they really must all fly only Caldari and Gallente. I hate these stupid posts. ------------------------------------------- "Sarcasm and irony are not to be used by the uninitiated." --Daitan Beringe, honorary director in charge of bottles--



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