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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Anthar Thebess
1160
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Posted - 2015.06.25 07:11:09 -
[61] - Quote
Krops Vont wrote:If this is considered, which it has been mentioned multiple times, can we have a trade off like scannable/warpable or not warpable on grid like drones are.
One thing at the time.
Currently we need this badly before fleet warp changes hit.
There are many possibilities how we can use wrecks - i like the idea about "mining" bigger ones.
CCP could pin topic dedicated to wrecks , as making capital wrecks un-destroyable until completely "mined out" is fun idea for me.
THink about all those mining ships around super carrier wreck 
Capital Remote AID Rebalance
Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
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Aeon Veritas
Lobach Inc.
Easily Offended
10
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Posted - 2015.06.25 09:23:17 -
[62] - Quote
+1 for the OP idea
A small extension of the idea would be to add mass to the wrecks (maybe half of average mass of the ship class?) and somehow calculate the mass with the base velocity of tractor beams.
Because at the moment a titan wreck could be drawn with 2400m/sec from a Noctis...
Maybe the Small tractor beams should be rendered unable to draw XL and XXL wrecks. (sizes acc. OP)
That could give the Rorq a new role for after fleet fights...
Edit: better Attribute would be "Force" since velocity = force / mass
General module tiericide thoughts
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Nyalnara
Dark Evil Undead Ponies Productions
47
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Posted - 2015.06.25 09:30:20 -
[63] - Quote
Uuuuuuse the foooorce, Luke...
In case of ponies, keep calm and start running.
French half-noob. Founder of [DEUPP]Dark Evil Undead Ponies Productions.
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Rhamnousia Nosferatu
Omar Little Fan Club
59
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Posted - 2015.06.25 09:46:30 -
[64] - Quote
In general I have no objection to this idea, however in order to be implemented, looting mechanics (at least) need to be fixed (namely DST fleet hangar mechanic).
Otherwise its just a stealth buff to gankers who (obviously) are getting a bit hurt in their backs due to the fact that some of the folks fighting them actually started popping the wrecks (as they - the gankers, suggested in one thread  ).
So -1 atm, with +1 potential. Also, numbers need to be worked on a bit (tone them down maybe). |
Anthar Thebess
1161
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Posted - 2015.06.25 10:03:31 -
[65] - Quote
Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote:In general I have no objection to this idea, however in order to be implemented, looting mechanics (at least) need to be fixed (namely DST fleet hangar mechanic). Otherwise its just a stealth buff to gankers who (obviously) are getting a bit hurt in their backs due to the fact that some of the folks fighting them actually started popping the wrecks (as they - the gankers, suggested in one thread ). So -1 atm, with +1 potential. Also, numbers need to be worked on a bit (tone them down maybe).
I think it is not hard to block moving cargo to fleet hangar based on crime watch mechanic.
Capital Remote AID Rebalance
Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
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Rhamnousia Nosferatu
Omar Little Fan Club
59
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Posted - 2015.06.25 10:25:24 -
[66] - Quote
Anthar Thebess wrote:
I think it is not hard to block moving cargo to fleet hangar based on crime watch mechanic.
Unfortunately, it is. You might not live in hisec, but this change would definitely be a giant buff to efficiency of freighter ganking. |
Anthar Thebess
1161
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Posted - 2015.06.25 10:34:56 -
[67] - Quote
Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote:Anthar Thebess wrote:
I think it is not hard to block moving cargo to fleet hangar based on crime watch mechanic.
Unfortunately, it is. You might not live in hisec, but this change would definitely be a giant buff to efficiency of freighter ganking.
But at the same time solve very important issue after fleet warp changes.
Like in life , you fix something just to brake 2 other things.
In nullsec i want to have fun when i undock , rather than watch someone having it 200km away , without getting a proper warpin.
Try to get near frigate / destroyer / kite cruiser brawl, when you :
- probe
- warp alt
- warp your ship to alt
enemy will be 70km already.
Capital Remote AID Rebalance
Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
|
Gingar Bread
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2015.06.25 11:05:26 -
[68] - Quote
Good Morning scrub,
It seems for as much as you tried to dupe people in your OP about how many noble reasons you had for having wrecks not pop so easily, your last 3 posts made it abundantly clear why you *actually* need wrecks to stay on grid.
Learn to play, learn to kite, stop flying triple plated ****, user probrs better or have a friend in a dedicated prober, have probes on your combat ship, there's quite a few options.
I think the "tl;dr" to you is L2P.
You're not getting free warp-ins now that CCP is removing fleet warps and sovlosers can't be warped around anymore.
From the CCP post:
"The goal of these changes is to encourage more individual fleet member participation and reduce the speed at which fleets can get on top of targets (e.g bombers)."
Your argument is going against exactly the reason why CCP is doing the warp changes in the first place.
And all the bandwagon jumpers are not better here.
kthxbai o/ |
Anthar Thebess
1161
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Posted - 2015.06.25 11:22:47 -
[69] - Quote
Lol.
You can warp to wrecks now.
I gave simple example how having ability to warp to wrecks is useful for a single player.
When you look at the fleet engagements this issue become bigger and bigger.
Ever tried to fly in a dictor?
Usually you sit around 200-300km away from main engagements , trying not to die from ceptors.
When you see a proper moment , or FC ask you to do so , you try to warp into the middle of enemy fleet and keep as many ships as you can on the field.
You will die instantly.
My record is 17 dictors lost in one fleet.
Probably i am bad at this game, but it is really hard to survive without reps, sitting in the middle of the enemy fleet in your own bubble.
You cannot count on any other warpin than enemy wreck.
CCP is shifting game to cruiser gangs , and they move quite fast , now we are talking about missile ships - so again this will be very fast fleets, kite fleets.
No way you can keep enemy fleet bubbled in crucial moment without having ability to warp to "fresh" wreck
Capital Remote AID Rebalance
Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
|
Jin Kugu
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
25
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Posted - 2015.06.25 12:13:23 -
[70] - Quote
+1
For anyone that doesn't know wrecks have 500ehp(less than a pod) and 5000 sig radius(twice that of a dread). This means that anything can lock and kill it instantly.
With the fleet warp changes coming, now is a good time to deal with this because getting warpins from wrecks will be crucial.
The only argument people can bring up against this logical change is 'tears', this only proves to me that the current wrecks are frustrating to some people but don't have a good reason to be this flimsy. |
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Anthar Thebess
1161
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Posted - 2015.06.25 13:11:53 -
[71] - Quote
Something exploded, it is radioactive then signature can be big.
When you have only scrap metal left on field , it should need something more than a 1 bullet to destroy it.
Capital Remote AID Rebalance
Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
|
InTrader Zim
State War Academy
Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.06.25 15:16:51 -
[72] - Quote
 +1 CCP, this is a really good idea! |
Trader Bongo McButtStash
State War Academy
Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2015.06.25 15:21:59 -
[73] - Quote
Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote:Anthar Thebess wrote:
I think it is not hard to block moving cargo to fleet hangar based on crime watch mechanic.
Unfortunately, it is. You might not live in hisec, but this change would definitely be a giant buff to efficiency of freighter ganking.
Actually, this wouldn't effect freighters getting ganked period, just the loot retrieval after the fact. This does not prevent anything from dying any less often than it currently does.
Unfortunately, people are letting personal motives get in the way of changes that would mean a lot to a ton of different parts of the game for other people. A titan that has 100 million EHP shouldn't be able to have it's wreck popped by one bullet. Just my .02 |
Anathema De'vouis
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.06.25 15:27:01 -
[74] - Quote
why hasn't this been thought of sooner! good idea, makes sense |
Rhamnousia Nosferatu
Omar Little Fan Club
61
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Posted - 2015.06.25 18:00:59 -
[75] - Quote
Trader Bongo McButtStash wrote:Actually, this wouldn't effect freighters getting ganked period, just the loot retrieval after the fact. This does not prevent anything from dying any less often than it currently does. Unfortunately, people are letting personal motives get in the way of changes that would mean a lot to a ton of different parts of the game for other people. A titan that has 100 million EHP shouldn't be able to have it's wreck popped by one bullet. Just my .02
Not sure but seriously doubt titans have 100 mil EHP in any configuration. Also, I too used to like posting on alts. |
Nyalnara
Dark Evil Undead Ponies Productions
48
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Posted - 2015.06.25 19:39:19 -
[76] - Quote
Been fiddling with Pyfa, easily go up to 50M.
In case of ponies, keep calm and start running.
French half-noob. Founder of [DEUPP]Dark Evil Undead Ponies Productions.
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ugly inside
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
20
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Posted - 2015.06.25 19:47:28 -
[77] - Quote
Anthar Thebess wrote:Bronson Hughes wrote:I like the idea in principle. I think your proposed EHP values are a bit high, but the idea is sound.
+1 HIgh? Cruiser - battlecruiser can have from few to few dozen thousand EHP, so 1.5k ehp wreck is not much. Battleship ehp start from frew dozen thousands , so 5k is small compared to this. Capitals , they tend to have from few hundred thousands to few milion sometimes , again just 20k ehp Supers , well those can go to few dozen milion ehp , and we have only 50k ehp on wreck ( 1 shoot to fighter bombers , or 2 shoots for dread)
take paper.. now punch paper.. it might have a hole in it if done right. take wood.. punch wood... now detonate dynomite next to wood.. now punch the wood chips.. take a gun.. shoot a jeep.. now blow the jeep up.. now shoot the jeep with the same gun.. things lose their structural integrity when they kinda lose their frame work. have you seen the wrecks up close. look like Picasso work for metal art. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
1941
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Posted - 2015.06.25 20:26:13 -
[78] - Quote
Just massively reduce their sig so they can't be insta locked. It gives you a window to warp if you are paying attention. Saying it's normal for wreck to take more than one shot kinda forget the fact wreck would not be immobile and more than likely only be a bunch of pieces scattering in space thus not staying in place for you to warp to. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
2547
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Posted - 2015.06.25 20:37:31 -
[79] - Quote
ugly inside wrote:
take paper.. now punch paper.. it might have a hole in it if done right. take wood.. punch wood... now detonate dynomite next to wood.. now punch the wood chips.. take a gun.. shoot a jeep.. now blow the jeep up.. now shoot the jeep with the same gun.. things lose their structural integrity when they kinda lose their frame work. have you seen the wrecks up close. look like Picasso work for metal art.
I can only think of something like a black hole that could completely destroy a car and remove it from the universe (and even then, its not truly destroyed). So what youre saying is it should take a doomsday volley to completely remove a wreck from the game?
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
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Rhamnousia Nosferatu
Omar Little Fan Club
61
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Posted - 2015.06.25 20:48:25 -
[80] - Quote
Nyalnara wrote:Been fiddling with Pyfa, easily go up to 50M.
Yes, 'easily' consisting of titan links, T2 trimarks, HG Slaves, and purple fit. Now double that somehow, please.  |
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Rhamnousia Nosferatu
Omar Little Fan Club
61
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Posted - 2015.06.25 20:50:02 -
[81] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:ugly inside wrote:
take paper.. now punch paper.. it might have a hole in it if done right. take wood.. punch wood... now detonate dynomite next to wood.. now punch the wood chips.. take a gun.. shoot a jeep.. now blow the jeep up.. now shoot the jeep with the same gun.. things lose their structural integrity when they kinda lose their frame work. have you seen the wrecks up close. look like Picasso work for metal art.
I can only think of something like a black hole that could completely destroy a car and remove it from the universe (and even then, its not truly destroyed). So what youre saying is it should take a doomsday volley to completely remove a wreck from the game?
Ok, then a counter-proposal - on destroying wreck it turns into some salvage you can scoop. Less then you can get using the salvager though. There, mystery and problem solved. |
Trader Bongo McButtStash
State War Academy
Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2015.06.26 00:57:48 -
[82] - Quote
I just got it to 75 mil without leviathan boosts or links, 100 mil is so easy. If I knew how to use EFT I'd add it in. (remember leviathan boosts are a massive boost to shield HP, and erebus boosts are a massive boost to armor)
http://i.imgur.com/tIhYAMm.png
I don't know how CCP deals with linking images on the forum so forgive me if I break any rules.
Please, at least do your homework if you're going to pretend to know things.
edit:
This is all against the premise anyway, this is a really good change and it makes sense; I'm tired of having titan wrecks instantly killed every single time they're created, and same with super carriers and capitals. It's unfair that ships with 100k+ EHP have a wreck that a frigate can 1shot, it's poor game balance and this thing would make for a great and fair change. |
Nyalnara
Dark Evil Undead Ponies Productions
48
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Posted - 2015.06.26 07:00:17 -
[83] - Quote
Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote:Nyalnara wrote:Been fiddling with Pyfa, easily go up to 50M. Yes, 'easily' consisting of titan links, T2 trimarks, HG Slaves, and purple fit. Now double that somehow, please.
Nope, T3 links because i was lazy, and midgrade snake only.
In case of ponies, keep calm and start running.
French half-noob. Founder of [DEUPP]Dark Evil Undead Ponies Productions.
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Anthar Thebess
1166
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Posted - 2015.06.26 10:49:25 -
[84] - Quote
It is not about making insane EHP, but forcing people that kill wrecks on field to put effort in this.
I love idea about "mining" the wrecks , but lets get as much support to ehp buff , before fleet warp changes hit.
If for CCP is hard to difference wreck types and EHP , lets just boost all wreck EHP from 500 to around 10.000.
Still 1 variable that is probably sitting somewhere in the database.
Capital Remote AID Rebalance
Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
|
Rhamnousia Nosferatu
Omar Little Fan Club
62
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Posted - 2015.06.26 11:49:21 -
[85] - Quote
Trader Bongo McButtStash wrote:
Please, at least do your homework if you're going to pretend to know things.
I don't know much about titans, never claimed to, and as I said - not sure but seriously doubt 100mil ehp. It seems I made a mistake, my bad.
To explain where the mistake came from - I did my EFT-ing with avatar in eft, with avatar as booster (didn't know erebus was better) and did not overheat harders, so ye, it can actually go for a burst tank of over 100mil EHP (2 minutes 20 seconds before hardeners burning out).
BTW, either something's wrong with my EFT or yours since I could not get your 72 mil on levi if I fit a clear pilot (no implants) and no boosters on the exact same fit (I get 65 mil ehp). Either way, it could be argued that EHP is irrelevant for the wreck as its very dependent on the situation (as this disscussion has shown) and once the wreck pops only its base HP value should count.
EDIT: All the EFT warrioring aside, I stand by my comments on the wreck changes (-1 atm) |
Nyalnara
Dark Evil Undead Ponies Productions
52
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Posted - 2015.06.26 12:11:20 -
[86] - Quote
Anthar Thebess wrote:If for CCP is hard to difference wreck types and EHP
No, it's not hard, as they manage to load different models based on size (S, M, L, and all Caps), and they also keep track as whether it was a T1 or T2 hull before being wrecked...
In case of ponies, keep calm and start running.
French half-noob. Founder of [DEUPP]Dark Evil Undead Ponies Productions.
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Jin Kugu
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
26
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Posted - 2015.06.26 12:27:26 -
[87] - Quote
Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote:[quote=Trader Bongo McButtStash]
EDIT: All the EFT warrioring aside, I stand by my comments on the wreck changes (-1 atm)
Popping wrecks is already common in nullsec and I don't doubt that with fleetwarp changes anti-support roles will be ordered to always shoot wrecks in range.
At the moment there is nothing at all you can do to stop someone from killing a wreck instantly. Anything can lock and kill it instantly. There is no counterplay.
Can you give any reason balancing wrecks is not a good change for everyone? Your comment was that this buffs people looting wrecks too, wich is a pretty obvious result of these changes. Is there any gameplay or balance reason this is not a good thing?
Your personal feelings towards certain groups are not a reason to stop good changes.
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Laidai Proset
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.06.26 13:51:21 -
[88] - Quote
seems like a change that benefits everybody, and just makes sense.
maybe make it an average of the raw hp of the CLASS of ships, and not the fitted ships, so like
0.5k for a noobship/shuttle
2k for a frigate
3.5k for a destroyer
5k for a cruiser (mining barges)
10k for a battlecruiser
20k for a battleship
75k for carrier/dreadnaught/freighter/jumpfreighter/orca/rorqual
150k for supercarrier/titan
this makes it so it's not nearly as big as the actual ship (with no fittings) but big enough so that having a wreck is relevant |
Anthar Thebess
1166
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Posted - 2015.06.26 14:20:47 -
[89] - Quote
Jin Kugu wrote:
Popping wrecks is already common in nullsec and I don't doubt that with fleetwarp changes anti-support roles will be ordered to always shoot wrecks in range.
At the moment there is nothing at all you can do to stop someone from killing a wreck instantly. Anything can lock and kill it instantly. There is no counterplay.
Can you give any reason balancing wrecks is not a good change for everyone? Your comment was that this buffs people looting wrecks too, wich is a pretty obvious result of these changes. Is there any gameplay or balance reason this is not a good thing?
Your personal feelings towards certain groups are not a reason to stop good changes.
I posted thing about ganking , as this is obvious that this will be also considered as some buff to this activity - every one is aware about this.
When you fly a while in nullsec you will notice how fast people are adapting to new stuff - as here is just adapt , or die.
When we are talking about kiting, long range doctrines - in order to engage enemy you need to be in similar doctrine , or have ability to tackle enemy ships , especially when they starting to die as "reps are not holding".
Basic ship used to tackle large group of enemy ships is a dictor, dictor that cannot probe by himself, so he can warp to other fleet member or for example a wreck in the middle of enemy fleet.
Nullsec FC are not stupid people. Inability to warp fleet will be abused , and clearing the field from potential warpins will be very important task. This will not be something new, countless times i already did this after FC requested this.
You can instantly lock any wreck and kill it using one gun.
Now , the question is.
Do we want this to work this way after next patch.
I don't . After years playing this game i had enough blue balling over the years.
Killing wrecks will be used mostly to prevent bigger engagements not to promote them.
I prefer to die than constantly rewarp on the battlefield - as this is fun.
This will not make higsec ganking harder or easier, scooping stuff by other freighter will give the pilot aggro - any one can tackle it.
You see a broken mechanic connected to fleet hangars , address this issue to CCP.
Wrecks must be harder to kill if we want nice, bloody brawls.
Laidai Proset wrote:seems like a change that benefits everybody, and just makes sense.
maybe make it an average of the raw hp of the CLASS of ships, and not the fitted ships, so like
0.5k for a noobship/shuttle
2k for a frigate
3.5k for a destroyer
5k for a cruiser (mining barges)
10k for a battlecruiser
20k for a battleship
75k for carrier/dreadnaught/freighter/jumpfreighter/orca/rorqual
150k for supercarrier/titan
this makes it so it's not nearly as big as the actual ship (with no fittings) but big enough so that having a wreck is relevant
Quite high numbers, but i guess keeping 500ehp on a interceptor was mistake from my side.
Dead frigate can be very important warp point.
Capital Remote AID Rebalance
Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
|
ham mover cruise
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.06.26 16:26:29 -
[90] - Quote
wreck shooting currently has no counterplay, glad to see this change, +1 |
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