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Sniper Comparison: Megathron vs. Rokh

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Matrix Aran Legio Immortalis	Posted - 2006.11.25 11:16:00 - [61] Edited by: Matrix Aran on 25/11/2006 11:18:12 As far as I'm concerned the rokh suffers from cap problems and only exceles at extreme range, which is rather pointless in my eyes. one well placed sensor damp will have a tanked rokh crying. A rokh that isn't tanked, well then hes just a sniper ship with rather laughable damage. Currently on TQ i haven't found a battleship yet with the obvious exception of the scorpion, that I can't deal with in one way or another. In my eyes the rokh is just another battleship, nothing particularly special or earthshattering. Edit: And before anyone takes me out of context, I'll add that even after stating all of this about how the rokh is a rather poor ship in my eyes does not mean I would want it buffed. ----
Kesseling	Posted - 2006.11.25 11:28:00 - [62] Of course they won't stop. They're complaining that a Caldari ship using the Caldari's real primary weapon is better than their cheaper Gallente ship using Caldari weapons! OH no! These are of course, the same guys who want EVEN MORE Drone capacity on the buffed Myrmidon! Some have even offered so nobly to sacrafice turret slots (that they never were going to use! Nos Dominix Junior!) What a horrible life the Gallente Lead, with the ever 'pathetic' Dominix and Megathron, the two best solo/small group battleships in the game, as well as the best fleet BS until the Rokh Arrived.
Dred'Pirate Jesus Imperial Academy	Posted - 2006.11.25 11:28:00 - [63] Edited by: Dred''Pirate Jesus on 25/11/2006 11:28:49 Originally by: Xori Ruscuv Remove its tanking bonus, for one... And if tier 3 are supposed to be better than tier 2, for **'s sake, give the hyperion more cpu/grid. The hyp's fittings are PATHETIC! Thats reasonable but what would you replace it with? If its not a tanking bonus it will be some sort of gun related one and so far by the opinions given another damage bonus would be even worse than the tanking bonus as you would be the damage king by quite a few orders of magnitude then.. If you melt the opposition in seconds then tank is of no concern and trust me as it stands now if you have even a third cap left and are getting nossed your still gonna pwn a 1 vs 1 against any other BS out there with the passive tanked blaster setup.. Maybe make it a shield boost bonus? That way your still using cap for the active tank and will be even more vulnerable nossing? KALI:Revelations..** Putting the Waaaa back in Piwat..
murder one Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.25 11:33:00 - [64] Originally by: Isyel Funny how people only *** about the Mega - Hype - Rokh relation. Think of us poor Minnies too. Our long range guns have the shortest range, the worst dps, long range ammo gets nerfed, the hp boost nerfs the alpha... Go look in my Blasterthron/Blaster Hype thread here and read what setups I used and what they died to. The Maelstrom as an AC ship is just awesome. The Hype dies every time to it in a 1V1. Can't break it's tank, and then you die once you run out of cap. The Maelstrom is a great ship, as is every other AC boat now that cap is so critical. Because I said so...**
Pan Crastus	Posted - 2006.11.25 11:36:00 - [65] Originally by: Malthros Zenobia Personally, I like the fact that the Rokh slaps the abusrd longrange T2 ammo in the face, and will help remove the 'YOU MUST HAVE T2 GUNS TO BE USEFUL IN A SNIPER FLEET' situation that Spike has created. While this can be considered an advantage, it will also lead to a fleet mono culture. Why would anyone take a T2 Megathron or Tempest to the fight if he can get better sniping performance at a much lower cost? L4 Caldari BS and some named 425mm's and you got your cheap and decent sniper ship ... No need to buy T2 large guns for 18-20m a pop. It's a risk of 50m vs. 150m+ and the same performance (yes, different damage types yada yada but who cares).
murder one Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.25 11:40:00 - [66] Originally by: Kesseling Of course they won't stop. They're complaining that a Caldari ship using the Caldari's real primary weapon is better than their cheaper Gallente ship using Caldari weapons! OH no! These are of course, the same guys who want EVEN MORE Drone capacity on the buffed Myrmidon! Some have even offered so nobly to sacrafice turret slots (that they never were going to use! Nos Dominix Junior!) What a horrible life the Gallente Lead, with the ever 'pathetic' Dominix and Megathron, the two best solo/small group battleships in the game, as well as the best fleet BS until the Rokh Arrived. I just killed a Myrmidon on test using medium drones vs. his five T2 Ogres. The 125m3 drone bay buff didn't do a **ed thing to help the ship that much. If you're running heavy drones in it, you're gonna die. The drone bay buff is minimal at best. The only issue I find is players who suck too much to know how to fight a Myrmidon. Second, none of this range crap would be an issue if they hadn't nerfed T2 ammo. The other ships would have more DPS at close range and would be superior to the Rokh in a few areas. Now that the T2 ammo is so close to T1 in performance, the extra range of the Rokh allows the use of more powerful T1 ammo at the same ranges that everyone else (Gallente, MINMATAR and AMARR, not just Gallente) is using T2 ammo, and with nearly if not the exact same DPS. Is it still whining when you're right? Because I said so...**
Captain Raynor Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.25 11:40:00 - [67] I am shocked, SHOCKED I TELL YOU, to see that the Rokh is a better sniper than the Megathron, I mean holy **, who would have thought it would out range a Megathron when it has a 50% bonus to optimal range. OMG Caldari ships (which are designed for railguns, LOL!) can now use their high damage javelin rail ammo without the insanely stupid shield penalty (lol@shield tanks)???????????? OH WOW THIS IS SO UNFAIR FOLKS. This is shocking news indeed, murder one! Quote:** Daniel Jackson > a harbinger cant be a raven cause its not caldari Daniel Jackson > and its not a missle ship Jim Raynor > thank you for that expert analysis DJ
murder one Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.25 11:43:00 - [68] Originally by: Captain Raynor I am shocked, SHOCKED I TELL YOU, to see that the Rokh is a better sniper than the Megathron, I mean holy **, who would have thought it would out range a Megathron when it has a 50% bonus to optimal range. OMG Caldari ships (which are designed for railguns, LOL!) can now use their high damage javelin rail ammo without the insanely stupid shield penalty (lol@shield tanks)???????????? OH WOW THIS IS SO UNFAIR FOLKS. This is shocking news indeed, murder one! See the above post. Everything would be fine if T2 ammo still did decent DPS compared to T1. With the old T2 ammo, all three other races sniper ships would have had a reason to be in the fleet. Now they don't. And with regard to the sarcasm: kindly f#ck off. Because I said so...**
Captain Raynor Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.25 11:51:00 - [69] Originally by: murder one Originally by: Captain Raynor I am shocked, SHOCKED I TELL YOU, to see that the Rokh is a better sniper than the Megathron, I mean holy **, who would have thought it would out range a Megathron when it has a 50% bonus to optimal range. OMG Caldari ships (which are designed for railguns, LOL!) can now use their high damage javelin rail ammo without the insanely stupid shield penalty (lol@shield tanks)???????????? OH WOW THIS IS SO UNFAIR FOLKS. This is shocking news indeed, murder one! See the above post. Everything would be fine if T2 ammo still did decent DPS compared to T1. With the old T2 ammo, all three other races sniper ships would have had a reason to be in the fleet. Now they don't. And with regard to the sarcasm: kindly f#ck off. Sorry but you lost me when you said removing the shield penalty off javelin was "bad".. catering to Caldari? Please, we have railgun ships you know, which do rely on shields and do you not think it was just a -little- unfair that we took a huge hit on shields when using javelin? Seriously. Quote:** Daniel Jackson > a harbinger cant be a raven cause its not caldari Daniel Jackson > and its not a missle ship Jim Raynor > thank you for that expert analysis DJ
murder one Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.25 11:59:00 - [70] Originally by: Captain Raynor Originally by: murder one Originally by: Captain Raynor I am shocked, SHOCKED I TELL YOU, to see that the Rokh is a better sniper than the Megathron, I mean holy **, who would have thought it would out range a Megathron when it has a 50% bonus to optimal range. OMG Caldari ships (which are designed for railguns, LOL!) can now use their high damage javelin rail ammo without the insanely stupid shield penalty (lol@shield tanks)???????????? OH WOW THIS IS SO UNFAIR FOLKS. This is shocking news indeed, murder one! See the above post. Everything would be fine if T2 ammo still did decent DPS compared to T1. With the old T2 ammo, all three other races sniper ships would have had a reason to be in the fleet. Now they don't. And with regard to the sarcasm: kindly f#ck off. Sorry but you lost me when you said removing the shield penalty off javelin was "bad".. catering to Caldari? Please, we have railgun ships you know, which do rely on shields and do you not think it was just a -little- unfair that we took a huge hit on shields when using javelin? Seriously. What other reason was there to remove the penalty other than to buff Caldari? Why not remove the velocity penalty and keep the shield penalty? Because I said so...**

Captain Raynor Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.25 12:04:00 - [71] Originally by: murder one Originally by: Captain Raynor Originally by: murder one Originally by: Captain Raynor I am shocked, SHOCKED I TELL YOU, to see that the Rokh is a better sniper than the Megathron, I mean holy **, who would have thought it would out range a Megathron when it has a 50% bonus to optimal range. OMG Caldari ships (which are designed for railguns, LOL!) can now use their high damage javelin rail ammo without the insanely stupid shield penalty (lol@shield tanks)???????????? OH WOW THIS IS SO UNFAIR FOLKS. This is shocking news indeed, murder one! See the above post. Everything would be fine if T2 ammo still did decent DPS compared to T1. With the old T2 ammo, all three other races sniper ships would have had a reason to be in the fleet. Now they don't. And with regard to the sarcasm: kindly f#ck off. Sorry but you lost me when you said removing the shield penalty off javelin was "bad".. catering to Caldari? Please, we have railgun ships you know, which do rely on shields and do you not think it was just a -little- unfair that we took a huge hit on shields when using javelin? Seriously. What other reason was there to remove the penalty other than to buff Caldari? Why not remove the velocity penalty and keep the shield penalty? lol.. it's railgun ammo, not blaster ammo dude.. there is nothing wrong with a speed penalty, the shield penalty absolutely KILLS ships like the harpy, eagle, ect.. these are railgun ships, i don't see any reason they should take such a HUGE defensive hit for using javelin, do you? i don't see void ammo having an armor penalty, do you? it needed fixed.. if you can't see that there is no real point in discussing anything further because if that isnt blind "caldari h8" i don't know what is Quote:** Daniel Jackson > a harbinger cant be a raven cause its not caldari Daniel Jackson > and its not a missle ship Jim Raynor > thank you for that expert analysis DJ
Aki Yamato	Posted - 2006.11.25 12:18:00 - [72] Heh maybe its time to realize that each race should use different tactics to win abattle. So If Gallente could not face Caldari sniper fleet at long range, they should try a different thing... BIG GUN BIG FUTURE
Xori Ruscuv Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2006.11.25 12:38:00 - [73] Originally by: Aki Yamato Heh maybe its time to realize that each race should use different tactics to win abattle. So If Gallente could not face Caldari sniper fleet at long range, they should try a different thing... OK! Give us a decent blaster ship, and we'll give it a try! It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it? This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap...
jamesw Omniscient Order The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2006.11.25 13:02:00 - [74] Javelin L range nerf ftl :'( 9km optimal on dual 250 rails. fail. -- Latest Vid: Domination!
Butter Dog ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.25 13:59:00 - [75] I think you should probably compare the Hype to the Rohk, rather than the Mega. The DPS is higher.
murder one Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.25 14:15:00 - [76] Originally by: Butter Dog I think you should probably compare the Hype to the Rohk, rather than the Mega. The DPS is higher. Just tack 12% more DPS to the Mega's stats. Done. One more gun = 12.5% difference in DPS, all else being equal. It doesn't matter, the Rokh outdamages the Hype as well. The ranges just get moved 10-20% or so. The max range for the Hype is actually a bit less than the Mega as well, since the passive tracking enhancers stack before the tracking comps do, and the way the Mega has one more low and one less mid so the TCs and TEs are juggled slightly between the Mega and Hype. I thought it was pretty obvious myself how the Hype would compare vs. the Mega and Rokh when set up for sniping. Because I said so...
Apolluon	Posted - 2006.11.25 14:31:00 - [77] Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus To me the Rohk bonus is just dandy for rails and blasters.. Is it a bit better than its "pure" blasterboat kin? Sure is.. So i'll propose a fix that lets it stay the AWESOME ship it currently is.. reduce the PG and CPU slightly to make you have to have near max fitting and support skills to pwn with it.. That keeps new players from "abusing" it and lets older players simply train up Cal BS 4 so they can be leet in another races ship.. Reasonable yes? No. Giving Amarr a boost as big as this ship would be reasonable. What you propose is not in any way within the realm of reason. Apolluon (And no, I have zero Amarr characters. My 2nd account is Caldari)
Rorix Whitecloud Caldari Eve Defence Force Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.25 14:56:00 - [78] Originally by: murder one SNIP What other reason was there to remove the penalty other than to buff Caldari? Why not remove the velocity penalty and keep the shield penalty? Well... the shield to caldari is like armor to gallente... should there be an armor penalty on the Void ammo? if you're up for that, then sure, lets keep the shield penalty. Repopulate Low Security! Goal: To blaster-fit every Caldari ship with a gun slot! :D
Romulan Dominiae	Posted - 2006.11.25 15:26:00 - [79] Only that the 425mm Gauss Gun, as in your comparison how the Rokh owns you poor Gallente with TechI Stuff, costs as much as a T2 Gun. Most n00bs with sucketh skills, that you already see pwning you in your 1 year trained T2 and now oh so obsolete mega wont be able to affort this. and btw: i've never seen such an commited whiner on the boards as you. it's a game. really.
Mar Idoun Aurora Empire Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels	Posted - 2006.11.25 15:36:00 - [80] I think removing the speed penalty caters too much to Gallente ships, or at the very least it caters to no one. With a full rack of jav on a rokh shield tanking is out of the question and it's a stretch to armor tank caldari.

Jirad TiSalver Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2006.11.25 15:53:00 - [81] Take it easy guys, with new content comes the need for balance and it will come. However until then i will pwn. i'm caldari and recently finished training tech 2 rails and all support gun skills to level 5
Slevin Kalebra	Posted - 2006.11.25 16:11:00 - [82] Originally by: Mar Idoun I think removing the speed penalty caters too much to Gallente ships, or at the very least it caters to no one. With a full rack of jav on a rokh shield tanking is out of the question and it's a stretch to armor tank caldari. The shield penalty on Javelin is being removed. On the other hand the damage is (slightly) reduced and the range penalty increased to 75%, but at least it'll be usable, so long as you don't mind being virtually immobile.
Mather Maelstrom Gallente Azure Horizon Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2006.11.25 16:28:00 - [83] Edited by: Mather Maelstrom on 25/11/2006 16:46:20 Edited by: Mather Maelstrom on 25/11/2006 16:45:14 Do some people that reply here read the OP? Problem here is T2 (expensive) < T1 (cheap). I just finished training for T2 425mm's and looking at T1 fitted Rokh owning my fully T2 fitted Megathron is not balanced. In my opinion revelations isn't ready yet. So far only these ships, the new BC and some T2 (mainly the recon) ships have been tested by players. I hardly read anything about t1 frigates and/ or cruisers. Cap problems have been adressed, but after it was done hardly enough testing time is given (the day the changes came the launch date was anounced). The minmatar carrier stinks. If balance between races isn't ensured faction warfare will be a hellhole. The Rokh is more then a decent blasterboat? PvP becomes even more expensive. More ammo, more charges, expensive ships, expensive rigs and expensive drugs. T2 prices are still rizing. I haven't looked into this, but it sounds that skill will be less important, the guy who can afford to lose it all will have the advantage. I could be wrong about everything though, I guess we will see. //No Pro Gallente RP, no Coreli & Cyrene anymore\\
Asariasha Caldari Cataclysm Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.11.25 17:06:00 - [84] Edited by: Asariasha on 25/11/2006 17:10:28 I really don't understand how you guys complain about a battleship sized Ferox Has anyone yet thought about the following things? - Rokh has no tracking/dmg bonus to compensate missed shots - In fleetfights the Rokh will have to stay with the other battleships. This means it will be able to deal good dmg in long ranged combat and will be less effective than all other ships in short range fleet combat. (and please dont switch fittings while in ONE special situation!) - the Rokh is very fragile towards turret disruption The Rokh follows the straight line of Caldari Hybrid-weaponed ships. Resist bonus + opti range. If you now consider the Rokh to be overpowered you just could add nerf-wants towards Merlin, Harpy, Cormorant, Moa, Ferox, because all these are soooooo overpowered as you admit So, please stop complaining about ships while you used fittings you might probably never see on TQ just to get a special ship nerfed for your own ships to still rule!
xHalcyonx Amarr CyberDyne Industries Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.11.25 17:18:00 - [85] I can't wait for the Sniperokh. :)
Butter Dog ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.25 17:47:00 - [86] Bear in mind that 425mm railgun II's are in short supply as it is, and 15m a pop. I see the Rohk using 350 II's - fits easier, works great with the Rohks range bonus, similar DPS. And it costs 20% as much.
Kazuo Ishiguro Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2006.11.25 18:14:00 - [87] I agree. The 350mms only do about 5% less dps than the 425mms due to their higher rof, and they still have about 219km optimal range with spike. Oh, and they use 1969mw each vs. 2625mw for 425s - I wonder what people are going to do with all their leftover pg ---------- An idea for helping people to appreciate ECCM
murder one Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.25 18:21:00 - [88] Originally by: Asariasha Edited by: Asariasha on 25/11/2006 17:10:28 I really don't understand how you guys complain about a battleship sized Ferox Has anyone yet thought about the following things? - Rokh has no tracking/dmg bonus to compensate missed shots - In fleetfights the Rokh will have to stay with the other battleships. This means it will be able to deal good dmg in long ranged combat and will be less effective than all other ships in short range fleet combat. (and please dont switch fittings while in ONE special situation!) - the Rokh is very fragile towards turret disruption The Rokh follows the straight line of Caldari Hybrid-weaponed ships. Resist bonus + opti range. If you now consider the Rokh to be overpowered you just could add nerf-wants towards Merlin, Harpy, Cormorant, Moa, Ferox, because all these are soooooo overpowered as you admit So, please stop complaining about ships while you used fittings you might probably never see on TQ just to get a special ship nerfed for your own ships to still rule! Are you on c r a c k? Tracking means nothing once you have a few tracking enhancers/tracking comps fitted, like ever sniper will. The Rokh will have zero problems tracking enemy BS and support ships at 200+km. As for the short fight, the Rokh is superior here as well because it can use Antimatter/Javelin at very long ranges, outdamaging the other sniper BS as it hits targets out to 60-80km with antimatter while the Mega is stuck at around 30-40km wiht AM. Add to this the built in passive tank with it's regenerating shield and resists and it starts to add up. And thats just for fleet. In solo PVP, I'm sure the usual setup will be 4x nos 4x torps and a huge shield tank that is unbreakable by another single BS. Because I said so...
Asariasha Caldari Cataclysm Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.11.25 18:30:00 - [89] We will see on how the new ships will fit into the whole picture after Revelations is released. Quote: The exact same issues arise when comparing the Brutix/Ferox, the Harpy/Enyo etc. Yeah, we all know how ass-kicking Ferox' and Harpies are. They are good at distanced fight, just like Caldari ships are supposed to, except Ferox which is just almost useless in PvP. But when it comes to close range combat they will melt down in the pure firepower of Brutix/Enyo. The whole thing is mostly about Revelations feature of HP boost. So, maybe it is time to overthink fittings and maybe getting some new tactics.
Tribunal FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.11.25 18:58:00 - [90] Originally by: Asariasha We will see on how the new ships will fit into the whole picture after Revelations is released. Quote: The exact same issues arise when comparing the Brutix/Ferox, the Harpy/Enyo etc. Yeah, we all know how ass-kicking Ferox' and Harpies are. They are good at distanced fight, just like Caldari ships are supposed to, except Ferox which is just almost useless in PvP. But when it comes to close range combat they will melt down in the pure firepower of Brutix/Enyo. The whole thing is mostly about Revelations feature of HP boost. So, maybe it is time to overthink fittings and maybe getting some new tactics. There is a difference between being "good" at ranged combat and totally owning ranged combat. Congrats on now having a ship that no other race can compete with in fleet battles. "We can't all be heroes, because somebody has to sit on the curb and applaud when they go by." - Will Rogers



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