Originally by: kieron

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The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.

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Originally by: Hopekiller Mane

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Am I missing something here? You're not comparing "apples to apples". Why compare T2 425s to Prototypes? And why not use the same ammo also?

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Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus

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Yeah the Rohk pwns at all roles with t1 guns.. It's Great being Caldari eh?

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Originally by: Pattern Clarc

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they removed the jav shield bonus? wtf?

this and the fact that the rokh can use nuetron blasters better than a hype can makes me extremely angry.

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Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus

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Why? How long till Caldari BS 4 and the new king of blasters? Change is GOOD..

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Originally by: murder one

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Both ships are set up with 3x Magstabs, 3x sensor boosters, 2x tracking comps and 2x tracking enhancers. Fall off isn't discussed because it will be the same per ship, given equal skills. Assume Sharpshooter 5 and BS 5 for both.

Some Hard numbers:

Megathron-

Spike- 186km optimal
Iron- 165km optimal
Tungsten- 144km
Iridium- 124km
Lead- 103km optimal

Rokh-

Spike- 279km optimal (redundant after 250km)
Iron- 247.5km (lol? right at the 250km lock limit)
Tungsten- 216km
Iridium- 186km
Lead- 154.5km

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Originally by: Xori Ruscuv

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Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 25/11/2006 07:21:31

Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus

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Why? How long till Caldari BS 4 and the new king of blasters? Change is GOOD..

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Bull**** isn't good though...
Get it?

People like you make me wonder...

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Originally by: Kaden Seer

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uhh, boost the range of all sniper ships except rokh ?

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Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus

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Edited by: Dred''Pirate Jesus on 25/11/2006 07:24:14

Originally by: Xori Ruscuv

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Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 25/11/2006 07:21:31

Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus

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Why? How long till Caldari BS 4 and the new king of blasters? Change is GOOD..

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Bull**** isn't good though...
Get it?

People like you make me wonder...

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Yeah I get it but I already have all BS to level 4 so I get to pick and choose the winners..

Sucks to be behind the curve eh?

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Originally by: murder one

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Originally by: Pattern Clarc

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they removed the jav shield bonus? wtf?

this and the fact that the rokh can use nuetron blasters better than a hype can makes me extremely angry.

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Well, they removed Javelins shield *penalty*. But ya, haven't you been paying attention?

With Rev1 (what I'm using for Revelations 1 expansion now) they're effectively removing Gallente from the game as far as battleship combat goes.

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Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus

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If your already have great skills in one area train for another.. So far the Rohk is the Bs for the masses and even more uber if you are Caldari rail/blaster specialized..

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Originally by: murder one

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The Hype makes a vastly better sniper than the Mega (lol?) due to the same damage bonus and the extra turret allows for increased DPS by 12.5% over the Mega, all other things being equal.

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Originally by: Xori Ruscuv

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Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 25/11/2006 07:58:43

Originally by: murder one

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The Hype makes a vastly better sniper than the Mega (lol?) due to the same damage bonus and the extra turret allows for increased DPS by 12.5% over the Mega, all other things being equal.

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Which is not true, since the hyp's fittings SUCK.

The rokh's fittings are so **** good that it can tank and snipe. What the ****?

Refer to my sig.

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Originally by: murder one

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Originally by: Xori Ruscuv

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Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 25/11/2006 07:58:43

Originally by: murder one

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The Hype makes a vastly better sniper than the Mega (lol?) due to the same damage bonus and the extra turret allows for increased DPS by 12.5% over the Mega, all other things being equal.

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Which is not true, since the hyp's fittings SUCK.

The rokh's fittings are so **** good that it can tank and snipe. What the ****?

Refer to my sig.

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I can fit 8x t2 425s on the Hype w/ no fitting mods, but no large rep or MWD.

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Originally by: murder one

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Agreed. I was just comparing it to the Mega as to what was the better ship between the two rail ships. The Rokh isn't even in the same league, as it's completely overpowered when compared to the two Gal ships.

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Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus

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And if you spent a year training for a certain ship and skill set 2 more weeks is such a huge sacrifice to get the new leet BS on the block?

Cripes..

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Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus

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And if you spent a year training for a certain ship and skill set 2 more weeks is such a huge sacrifice to get the new leet BS on the block?

Cripes..

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Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus

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And if you spent a year training for a certain ship and skill set 2 more weeks is such a huge sacrifice to get the new leet BS on the block?

Cripes..

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Originally by: murder one

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Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus

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And if you spent a year training for a certain ship and skill set 2 more weeks is such a huge sacrifice to get the new leet BS on the block?

Cripes..

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I'd just like a setup for the Hype that's actually usefull for something. And no, 8x Miner IIs and 6 WCS in the lows doesn't count.

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Originally by: Xori Ruscuv

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THAT IS NOT RIGHT. I don't CARE if I CAN train for the Rokh or NOT! The Tier 3 ship isn't SUPPOSED to be better than Tier 2 or 1 ships... nor is one Tier 3 ship SUPPOSED to be better than any other Tier 3 ship!

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Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus

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WTF? Any tier 3 is supposed to be better than a tier 1 or 2..

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Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus

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Different equates to better in the case of eve ships.. how else would they be different?

Raven: Awesome fire support BS with the always hit torps..

Scorp: Awesome EW support BS with the always hit jamming..

Rohk: Awesome Primary DPS dealer for long/short range..

Thats pretty balanced I'd say..

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Originally by: murder one

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Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus

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Different equates to better in the case of eve ships.. how else would they be different?

Raven: Awesome fire support BS with the always hit torps..

Scorp: Awesome EW support BS with the always hit jamming..

Rohk: Awesome Primary DPS dealer for long/short range..

Thats pretty balanced I'd say..

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Dood, your comedy is just outstanding lol!

Anyway, I'd like your opinion on what the Hype is good for

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Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus

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LOl and now we get to the meat of the thread!

Flaming!

But seriously do torps not always hit? Do jammers on scorps not always work? They do on sisi so im assuming they will do the same on tranq on the 28th..

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Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus

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Guess its this.. your arguing from a specialist point of view and im arguing from a generalists point of view..

Your mad cause your specialist skills dont pwn as hard as you think they should and my general skills are happy with all the AWESOME choices in ships I have now..

Is it that hard to understand?

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Originally by: Goca

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Originally by: murder one

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Both ships are set up with 3x Magstabs, 3x sensor boosters, 2x tracking comps and 2x tracking enhancers. Fall off isn't discussed because it will be the same per ship, given equal skills. Assume Sharpshooter 5 and BS 5 for both.

Some Hard numbers:

Megathron-

Spike- 186km optimal
Iron- 165km optimal
Tungsten- 144km
Iridium- 124km
Lead- 103km optimal

Rokh-

Spike- 279km optimal (redundant after 250km)
Iron- 247.5km (lol? right at the 250km lock limit)
Tungsten- 216km
Iridium- 186km
Lead- 154.5km

---

Actually don't keep saying it's great to be Caldari, please, well maybe it's great to be Caldari but trust me you are far better off now then if you had trained for a Caldari Raven..
At least you can train for a few days and get into a Rokh and actually use it.. having trained rails..

the scary thing?
pretty much every weapon and ammo type you just listed will outrange all but the most highly skilled Raven torpedo pilot and outdamage cruise as well..

Maybe it's great to be Caldari as long as you trained rails.. otherwise it's better to have been a different race who had a rail battleship in their ranks..

anyone wanna buy a very highly skilled torp Raven pilot?
comes with free Ravens...

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Originally by: Xori Ruscuv

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Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus

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Guess its this.. your arguing from a specialist point of view and im arguing from a generalists point of view..

Your mad cause your specialist skills dont pwn as hard as you think they should and my general skills are happy with all the AWESOME choices in ships I have now..

Is it that hard to understand?

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Yeah, you're arguing that the lowest common denominator should win out. I get it. Whaaaatever.

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Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus

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Guess its this.. your arguing from a specialist point of view and im arguing from a generalists point of view..

Your mad cause your specialist skills dont pwn as hard as you think they should and my general skills are happy with all the AWESOME choices in ships I have now..

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Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus

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Why not? your leet.. you will pwn nearly everyone you cross no matter if they are in a Rohk or not..

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Quote:

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Fleet wise the Rohk is just fine..

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Quote:

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BlasterRohk might be a bit unfair for small gang but so what? Nos it.. problem solved.. and yeah noone uses nos right?

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Quote:

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Cripes seems everytime a ship is the slightest bit more uber than another the cries of "Unfair" ring loud and long here..

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Quote:

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but is anyone still *****ing about the exodus/coldwar/rmr changes?

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Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus

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... Im just having fun with the Rohk which needs no lovin.. a slight cuff to the head with the nerf bat maybe but meh..

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Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus

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Your mad cause your specialist skills dont pwn as hard as you think they should and my general skills are happy with all the AWESOME choices in ships I have now..

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Originally by: Apolluon

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You shouldn't have choices to "pwn". The name of the game, from day one, was that if you wanted to be good out of the box, you *had* to specialize.

How great would the crying be if they made the Hyperion a drone boat with a 50% greater drone control, 25% greater drone damage, and 25% greater drone HP per level?

Thought so.

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Originally by: Isyel

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Funny how people only ***** about the Mega - Hype - Rokh relation.

Think of us poor Minnies too. Our long range guns have the shortest range, the worst dps, long range ammo gets nerfed, the hp boost nerfs the alpha...

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Originally by: Xori Ruscuv

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Remove its tanking bonus, for one...
And if tier 3 are supposed to be better than tier 2, for ****'s sake, give the hyperion more cpu/grid. The hyp's fittings are PATHETIC!

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Originally by: Isyel

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Funny how people only ***** about the Mega - Hype - Rokh relation.

Think of us poor Minnies too. Our long range guns have the shortest range, the worst dps, long range ammo gets nerfed, the hp boost nerfs the alpha...

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Originally by: Malthros Zenobia

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Personally, I like the fact that the Rokh slaps the abusrd longrange T2 ammo in the face, and will help remove the 'YOU MUST HAVE T2 GUNS TO BE USEFUL IN A SNIPER FLEET' situation that Spike has created.

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Originally by: Kesseling

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Of course they won't stop. They're complaining that a Caldari ship using the Caldari's real primary weapon is better than their cheaper Gallente ship using Caldari weapons! OH no!

These are of course, the same guys who want EVEN MORE Drone capacity on the buffed Myrmidon! Some have even offered so nobly to sacrafice turret slots (that they never were going to use! Nos Dominix Junior!)

What a horrible life the Gallente Lead, with the ever 'pathetic' Dominix and Megathron, the two best solo/small group battleships in the game, as well as the best fleet BS until the Rokh Arrived.

---

Quote:

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Daniel Jackson > a harbinger cant be a raven cause its not caldari
Daniel Jackson > and its not a missle ship
Jim Raynor > thank you for that expert analysis DJ

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Originally by: Captain Raynor

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I am shocked, SHOCKED I TELL YOU, to see that the Rokh is a better sniper than the Megathron, I mean holy ****, who would have thought it would out range a Megathron when it has a 50% bonus to optimal range.

OMG Caldari ships (which are designed for railguns, LOL!) can now use their high damage javelin rail ammo without the insanely stupid shield penalty (lol@shield tanks)???????????? OH WOW THIS IS SO UNFAIR FOLKS.

This is shocking news indeed, murder one!

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Originally by: murder one

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Originally by: Captain Raynor

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I am shocked, SHOCKED I TELL YOU, to see that the Rokh is a better sniper than the Megathron, I mean holy ****, who would have thought it would out range a Megathron when it has a 50% bonus to optimal range.

OMG Caldari ships (which are designed for railguns, LOL!) can now use their high damage javelin rail ammo without the insanely stupid shield penalty (lol@shield tanks)???????????? OH WOW THIS IS SO UNFAIR FOLKS.

This is shocking news indeed, murder one!

---

See the above post. Everything would be fine if T2 ammo still did decent DPS compared to T1. With the old T2 ammo, all three other races sniper ships would have had a reason to be in the fleet. Now they don't.

And with regard to the sarcasm: kindly f#ck off.

---

Quote:

---

Daniel Jackson > a harbinger cant be a raven cause its not caldari
Daniel Jackson > and its not a missle ship
Jim Raynor > thank you for that expert analysis DJ

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Originally by: Captain Raynor

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Originally by: murder one

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Originally by: Captain Raynor

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I am shocked, SHOCKED I TELL YOU, to see that the Rokh is a better sniper than the Megathron, I mean holy ****, who would have thought it would out range a Megathron when it has a 50% bonus to optimal range.

OMG Caldari ships (which are designed for railguns, LOL!) can now use their high damage javelin rail ammo without the insanely stupid shield penalty (lol@shield tanks)???????????? OH WOW THIS IS SO UNFAIR FOLKS.

This is shocking news indeed, murder one!

---

See the above post. Everything would be fine if T2 ammo still did decent DPS compared to T1. With the old T2 ammo, all three other races sniper ships would have had a reason to be in the fleet. Now they don't.

And with regard to the sarcasm: kindly f#ck off.

---

Sorry but you lost me when you said removing the shield penalty off javelin was "bad".. catering to Caldari? Please, we have railgun ships you know, which do rely on shields and do you not think it was just a -little- unfair that we took a huge hit on shields when using javelin?

Seriously.

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Originally by: murder one

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Originally by: Captain Raynor

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Originally by: murder one

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Originally by: Captain Raynor

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I am shocked, SHOCKED I TELL YOU, to see that the Rokh is a better sniper than the Megathron, I mean holy ****, who would have thought it would out range a Megathron when it has a 50% bonus to optimal range.

OMG Caldari ships (which are designed for railguns, LOL!) can now use their high damage javelin rail ammo without the insanely stupid shield penalty (lol@shield tanks)???????????? OH WOW THIS IS SO UNFAIR FOLKS.

This is shocking news indeed, murder one!

---

See the above post. Everything would be fine if T2 ammo still did decent DPS compared to T1. With the old T2 ammo, all three other races sniper ships would have had a reason to be in the fleet. Now they don't.

And with regard to the sarcasm: kindly f#ck off.

---

Sorry but you lost me when you said removing the shield penalty off javelin was "bad".. catering to Caldari? Please, we have railgun ships you know, which do rely on shields and do you not think it was just a -little- unfair that we took a huge hit on shields when using javelin?

Seriously.

---

What other reason was there to remove the penalty other than to buff Caldari? Why not remove the velocity penalty and keep the shield penalty?

---

Quote:

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Daniel Jackson > a harbinger cant be a raven cause its not caldari
Daniel Jackson > and its not a missle ship
Jim Raynor > thank you for that expert analysis DJ

---

Originally by: Aki Yamato

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Heh maybe its time to realize that each race should use different tactics to win abattle. So If Gallente could not face Caldari sniper fleet at long range, they should try a different thing...

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Originally by: Butter Dog

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I think you should probably compare the Hype to the Rohk, rather than the Mega.

The DPS is higher.

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Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus

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To me the Rohk bonus is just dandy for rails and blasters.. Is it a bit better than its "pure" blasterboat kin? Sure is.. So i'll propose a fix that lets it stay the AWESOME ship it currently is.. reduce the PG and CPU slightly to make you have to have near max fitting and support skills to pwn with it.. That keeps new players from "abusing" it and lets older players simply train up Cal BS 4 so they can be leet in another races ship..

Reasonable yes?

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Originally by: murder one

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*SNIP*

What other reason was there to remove the penalty other than to buff Caldari? Why not remove the velocity penalty and keep the shield penalty?

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Originally by: Mar Idoun

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I think removing the speed penalty caters too much to Gallente ships, or at the very least it caters to no one. With a full rack of jav on a rokh shield tanking is out of the question and it's a stretch to armor tank caldari.

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Originally by: Asariasha

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Edited by: Asariasha on 25/11/2006 17:10:28
I really don't understand how you guys complain about a
battleship sized Ferox
Has anyone yet thought about the following things?

- Rokh has no tracking/dmg bonus to compensate missed shots
- In fleetfights the Rokh will have to stay with the other
battleships. This means it will be able to deal good dmg
in long ranged combat and will be less effective than all
other ships in short range fleet combat.
(and please dont switch fittings while in ONE special situation!)
- the Rokh is very fragile towards turret disruption

The Rokh follows the straight line of Caldari Hybrid-weaponed ships.
Resist bonus + opti range. If you now consider the Rokh
to be overpowered you just could add nerf-wants towards
Merlin, Harpy, Cormorant, Moa, Ferox, because all these
are soooooo overpowered as you admit

So, please stop complaining about ships while you used
fittings you might probably never see on TQ just to get
a special ship nerfed for your own ships to still rule!

---

Quote:

---

The exact same issues arise when comparing the Brutix/Ferox, the Harpy/Enyo etc.

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Originally by: Asariasha

---

We will see on how the new ships will fit into the whole
picture after Revelations is released.

Quote:

---

The exact same issues arise when comparing the Brutix/Ferox, the Harpy/Enyo etc.

---

Yeah, we all know how ass-kicking Ferox' and Harpies are.
They are good at distanced fight, just like Caldari ships
are supposed to, except Ferox which is just almost useless
in PvP.
But when it comes to close range combat they will melt
down in the pure firepower of Brutix/Enyo.

The whole thing is mostly about Revelations feature of
HP boost. So, maybe it is time to overthink fittings and
maybe getting some new tactics.

---

Originally by: murder one

---

Both ships are set up with 3x Magstabs, 3x sensor boosters, 2x tracking comps and 2x tracking enhancers. Fall off isn't discussed because it will be the same per ship, given equal skills. Assume Sharpshooter 5 and BS 5 for both.

Some Hard numbers:

Megathron-

Spike- 186km optimal
Iron- 165km optimal
Tungsten- 144km
Iridium- 124km
Lead- 103km optimal

Rokh-

Spike- 279km optimal (redundant after 250km)
Iron- 247.5km (lol? right at the 250km lock limit)
Tungsten- 216km
Iridium- 186km
Lead- 154.5km

Examination of the numbers:

After the T2 ammo nerf, Spike L is doing the same damage as Lead ammo instead of Uranium. This is a HUGE nerf, especially to the Megathron/Hyperion. The Hype makes a vastly better sniper than the Mega (lol?) due to the same damage bonus and the extra turret allows for increased DPS by 12.5% over the Mega, all other things being equal. Tracking is irrelevant as something with enough transverse for the Hype to miss, the Mega will also miss.

A TECH ONE Rokh with Iridium can hit as far as a T2 gunned Hyperion. Since Spike L now does as much damage as Lead, Spike is basically only one bracket above Iridum in damage performance.

Assuming maxed skills:

Megathron- 7x T2 425mm (7.943 damage mod)w/ Spike L (32 damage per round)= 1779.23 raw damage per volley.

Rokh- 8x 425mm Prototype (5.8456 damage mod, no T2 skill bonus) w/ Iridium L (28 damage per round) = 1309.414 damage per volley.

At it's maximum range using T2 guns, the Mega has an 35.87% advantage over the Rokh, DPS wise, while the Rokh is still using T1 guns. Note that we're comparing a T2 Mega here to a T1 Rokh.

If we look at a T1 Mega and T1 Rokh, the numbers look like this:

Mega- 7x T1 425mm (7.307 modifier) w/ Iron @ 165km = 1022.98 per volley.

Rokh- 8x T1 425mm (5.8456 modifier) w/ Iridium (which actually outranges the Mega with Iron by a good 20km+) @186km = 1309.4 per volley.

Once you go past the Mega's maximum effective range and start using even longer ranged ammo on the Rokh, the Mega's damage drops to ZERO. Same with the Hyperion.

So what do all these numbers mean? There is a very small window of range where a T2 fitted Megathron outdamages a T1 fitted Rokh. Anything above that range and the Rokh wins, as the Mega can't shoot that far. Anything below the range of a Rokh w/ lead (154km) and the Rokh is again outdamaging the Mega because it can use more powerful ammo at the same range, also without incurring a tracking loss because it's not using Spike.

The reason the Mega have such poor performance is because Spike L was nerfed. It was reduced from Uranium equivilant damage to Lead equivilant, and because of that the gap between the ranges of ammo was narrowed. So now the damage bonus of the Mega/Hype become even less relevant and the range bonus of the Rokh becomes even more important.

The exact same issues arise when comparing the Brutix/Ferox, the Harpy/Enyo etc.

<snip>

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Originally by: Audri Fisher

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use 3 tracking comps on mega, not 2, the 2x tracking enhancers aren't worth it, the slots can be put to better use. Lock range can be extended easier than optimal esp with gang bonuses.

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Originally by: skillbuyer

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1.) Fact: the Rokh's passive tank is inferior to that of the Raven and the Drake and the Ferox

2.) Fact: the Megathron has a tracking bonus, therefore dealing higher damage at equal range than the Rokh (assuming equal damage mod and ammo) unless the target is completely stationary.

It also means that the Megathron can actually hit ships smaller than a BC out at max range.

3.) Fact: I love trolling threads like this.

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Originally by: nutbar

---

This has to be one of the funniest threads to read in a while - I've never seen someone whine so much before in my life!

Sounds like someone needs his mommy :(

---

Originally by: Butter Dog

---

Originally by: Audri Fisher

---

use 3 tracking comps on mega, not 2, the 2x tracking enhancers aren't worth it, the slots can be put to better use. Lock range can be extended easier than optimal esp with gang bonuses.

---

How is a Mega going to snipe at 190km with 1 sensor booster, even with gang bonuses?

---

Originally by: Rathroc

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Originally by: nutbar

---

This has to be one of the funniest threads to read in a while - I've never seen someone whine so much before in my life!

Sounds like someone needs his mommy :(

---

If you lack whining check out the threads on the drake nerf.

now back on topic, what is a Mega good for if a Rokh can pwn it a sniping?

-Drone boat?
no drone bonuses, drones should not be concidered a primary weapon unlike for the Dominix

-blaster??
hyperon is specificly made for blasters, that said I do not use them myself

-Missiles?!?
I wish

So please tell me, what is a Megathron good at?

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Originally by: Audri Fisher

---

Short range rail BBQ with javalin. once the mega gets withen jav range of it's own, it completely shreds the rohk, tracking is a very big issue with rails at that rangel also. don't forget, the mega can fit a full rack of 425mm tech II's and a MWD without near as many issues as a rohk has.

---

Originally by: Zygdriel

---

i would like to see situations on a domi vs rokh

---

Originally by: kieron

---

The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.

---

Originally by: Tribunal

---

Originally by: Audri Fisher

---

Short range rail BBQ with javalin. once the mega gets withen jav range of it's own, it completely shreds the rohk, tracking is a very big issue with rails at that rangel also. don't forget, the mega can fit a full rack of 425mm tech II's and a MWD without near as many issues as a rohk has.

---

Eh... why would you fit a MWD to a Mega with a full rack of 425s? I suppose that's beside the point...

The Mega is not going to "shred" the Rokh if it gets into close range of the Rohk as the Rohk will have a much stronger tank. A full rack of 425s on a Mega means that a Mega will have to passive armor tank, and passive tanks are where shield tanks rule.

---

Originally by: Tribunal

---

Originally by: Audri Fisher

---

Short range rail BBQ with javalin. once the mega gets withen jav range of it's own, it completely shreds the rohk, tracking is a very big issue with rails at that rangel also. don't forget, the mega can fit a full rack of 425mm tech II's and a MWD without near as many issues as a rohk has.

---

Eh... why would you fit a MWD to a Mega with a full rack of 425s? I suppose that's beside the point...

The Mega is not going to "shred" the Rokh if it gets into close range of the Rohk as the Rohk will have a much stronger tank. A full rack of 425s on a Mega means that a Mega will have to passive armor tank, and passive tanks are where shield tanks rule.

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Originally by: murder one

---

Yes you literally are TOTALLY MISSING THE POINT. I'm showing that the Rokh with T1 guns is BETTER than a Megathron with T2 guns. And I'm showing how the Rokh, range for range, can use *more damaging ammo* than the Megathron can, for superior DPS across all ranges.

How much more plain can I be?

---

Quote:

---

Megathron- 7x T2 425mm (7.943 damage mod)w/ Spike L (32 damage per round)= 1779.23 raw damage per volley.

Rokh- 8x 425mm Prototype (5.8456 damage mod, no T2 skill bonus) w/ Iridium L (28 damage per round) = 1309.414 damage per volley.

---

Quote:

---

Mega- 7x T1 425mm (7.307 modifier) w/ Iron @ 165km = 1022.98 per volley.

Rokh- 8x T1 425mm (5.8456 modifier) w/ Iridium (which actually outranges the Mega with Iron by a good 20km+) @186km = 1309.4 per volley.

---

Originally by: Hopekiller Mane

---

Edited by: Hopekiller Mane on 26/11/2006 04:32:01

Originally by: murder one

---

Yes you literally are TOTALLY MISSING THE POINT. I'm showing that the Rokh with T1 guns is BETTER than a Megathron with T2 guns. And I'm showing how the Rokh, range for range, can use *more damaging ammo* than the Megathron can, for superior DPS across all ranges.

How much more plain can I be?

---

No need to be an ass, kid.

In this example, you show how a T2 MegaT outdamages a T1 Rokh...

Quote:

---

Megathron- 7x T2 425mm (7.943 damage mod)w/ Spike L (32 damage per round)= 1779.23 raw damage per volley.

Rokh- 8x 425mm Prototype (5.8456 damage mod, no T2 skill bonus) w/ Iridium L (28 damage per round) = 1309.414 damage per volley.

---

And this example you show how a Rokh with better ammo outdamages a MegaT...

Quote:

---

Mega- 7x T1 425mm (7.307 modifier) w/ Iron @ 165km = 1022.98 per volley.

Rokh- 8x T1 425mm (5.8456 modifier) w/ Iridium (which actually outranges the Mega with Iron by a good 20km+) @186km = 1309.4 per volley.

---

None of that is really earthshattering or validates your argument.

...and let's try to use the word "literally" correctly

---

Originally by: Audri Fisher

---

Originally by: Rathroc

---

Originally by: nutbar

---

This has to be one of the funniest threads to read in a while - I've never seen someone whine so much before in my life!

Sounds like someone needs his mommy :(

---

If you lack whining check out the threads on the drake nerf.

now back on topic, what is a Mega good for if a Rokh can pwn it a sniping?

-Drone boat?
no drone bonuses, drones should not be concidered a primary weapon unlike for the Dominix

-blaster??
hyperon is specificly made for blasters, that said I do not use them myself

-Missiles?!?
I wish

So please tell me, what is a Megathron good at?

---

Short range rail BBQ with javalin. once the mega gets withen jav range of it's own, it completely shreds the rohk, tracking is a very big issue with rails at that rangel also. don't forget, the mega can fit a full rack of 425mm tech II's and a MWD without near as many issues as a rohk has.

---

Originally by: falcinious

---

The rohk has a terrible cap recharge time and the mega has a far supperior cap recharge time. Explain to me how the rohk will have an incredible tank?

---

Originally by: Loud Speaker

---

Edited by: Loud Speaker on 26/11/2006 05:06:03
Possible solution is to keep sniper ammo at 100% range bonus and higher damage, that way the non-Rokh snipers can keep up range wise (megathron over 200km optimal, dunno about others) and the damage slightly higher than the low damage max range T1 ammo. The Rokh on the otherhand can go budget and use T1 rails and fight at the same ranges as the other race snipers with slightly less damage, or they can fit T2 and slightly outrange the other race ships and have higher damage output than T1.

---

Originally by: murder one

---

Originally by: Loud Speaker

---

Edited by: Loud Speaker on 26/11/2006 05:06:03
Possible solution is to keep sniper ammo at 100% range bonus and higher damage, that way the non-Rokh snipers can keep up range wise (megathron over 200km optimal, dunno about others) and the damage slightly higher than the low damage max range T1 ammo. The Rokh on the otherhand can go budget and use T1 rails and fight at the same ranges as the other race snipers with slightly less damage, or they can fit T2 and slightly outrange the other race ships and have higher damage output than T1.

---

That's what I've been sayin..

---

Originally by: falcinious

---

The rohk has a terrible cap recharge time and the mega has a far supperior cap recharge time. Explain to me how the rohk will have an incredible tank?

---

Originally by: kieron

---

The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.

---

Originally by: Malthros Zenobia

---

Originally by: murder one

---

Of course it validates my argument. A T2 Mega can outdamage a T1 Rokh from approximately 150-185km, and that's it. For all other ranges except extreme short range (less than 30km) the Rokh outdamages the Mega, T1 and T2 fit respectively.

Ans so yes, I did use the word 'literally' correctly.

---

So the Rokh breaks the absurd need for T2 guns in order to be useful in sniping, Sounds good to me.

I don't recall T2 missiles or T2 drones being a must after being introduced (well maybe javelin torps but those were just pure and simply fubar), yet T2 ammo completely turned sniping into a situation where you either used T2, or you pure and simply sucked for any ranged combat.

So now the Caldari, a race who make heayv use of range, can out range the mega, and with long range weapons, is generally more useful than the mega. How exactly is this out of place? The Mega will still be king up close, as gallente are setup to be with their blaster and drone boats. This really sounds like a cry for Gallente to be better at range than the range-using race.

---

Originally by: Malthros Zenobia

---

Edited by: Malthros Zenobia on 26/11/2006 06:31:05

Originally by: murder one

---

Of course it validates my argument. A T2 Mega can outdamage a T1 Rokh from approximately 150-185km, and that's it. For all other ranges except extreme short range (less than 30km) the Rokh outdamages the Mega, T1 and T2 fit respectively.

Ans so yes, I did use the word 'literally' correctly.

---

So the Rokh breaks the absurd need for T2 guns in order to be useful in sniping, Sounds good to me.

I don't recall T2 missiles or T2 drones being a must after being introduced (well maybe javelin torps but those were just pure and simply fubar), yet T2 ammo completely turned sniping into a situation where you either used T2, or you pure and simply sucked for any ranged combat.

So now the Caldari, a race who make heayv use of range, can out range the mega, and with long range weapons, is generally more useful than the mega. How exactly is this out of place? The Mega will still be king up close, as gallente are setup to be with their blaster and drone boats. This really sounds like a cry for Gallente to be better at range than the range-using race.

People are acting like ranged combat only happens at 250km. What reality are people living in with this? A simpyl ship can be used to land your megas 100km closer and allow them to proceed to blast the sweet bejesus out of the Rokhs.

---

Originally by: murder one

---

Originally by: Audri Fisher

---

Originally by: Rathroc

---

Originally by: nutbar

---

This has to be one of the funniest threads to read in a while - I've never seen someone whine so much before in my life!

Sounds like someone needs his mommy :(

---

If you lack whining check out the threads on the drake nerf.

now back on topic, what is a Mega good for if a Rokh can pwn it a sniping?

-Drone boat?
no drone bonuses, drones should not be concidered a primary weapon unlike for the Dominix

-blaster??
hyperon is specificly made for blasters, that said I do not use them myself

-Missiles?!?
I wish

So please tell me, what is a Megathron good at?

---

Short range rail BBQ with javalin. once the mega gets withen jav range of it's own, it completely shreds the rohk, tracking is a very big issue with rails at that rangel also. don't forget, the mega can fit a full rack of 425mm tech II's and a MWD without near as many issues as a rohk has.

---

Try thinking about the Rokh with another 33% grid, because that's how much you can get with three grid rigs. Forget about RCUs. The two low slots you'd waste with 2x 15% RCU IIs you now have for other fittings. I'm sure you could fit an MWD after 3x grid rigs, and tracking simply isn't an issue.

The Rokh with Javelin will be hitting at 50-60km, while the Mega will be hitting at 30-40km. Even at these 'close' ranges the tracking advantage of the Mega is completely negated by the Javelin tracking penalty. By the time something is moving with enough transverse for the Rohk to miss, the Mega is missing too.

---

Originally by: Tribunal

---

Originally by: falcinious

---

The rohk has a terrible cap recharge time and the mega has a far supperior cap recharge time. Explain to me how the rohk will have an incredible tank?

---

I never used the word "incredible". I said the Rohk would have a stronger tank then the Mega because both would have to be passive tanked. A passive shield tank > passive armor tank.

Read what you quote next time.

say you cram your rigging slots with PG ones. 2 tracking comps, 2 sensor boosters in mids. you now have 2 mids to play with for a "passive tank" 1 low, unless you sacrice damge mods. ( you are gonna need a co proc now )

awesome passive tank huh? even if you don't need the co-proc, the best you are looking at here is maybe 8 dps peak recharge....
that's weak, so weak in fact, I would recomend a small shield booster II over it. passive shield tanking doesn't work until you get incredibly high ressit, or you use amajority of your lows to do it, which means tech II ship, or crap dps.

---

Originally by: murder one

---

I'm saying that the difference between the Mega's tracking and the Rokhs tracking, after the addition of tracking computers/enhancers and then the penalties applied by Javelin/spike etc. is negligable.

Grid rigs don't have any drawbacks, so no, there is no CPU penalty and nor should they. As far as the Mega goes, and what types of rigs it would fit, I'm really at a loss as to what to suggest. Weapons rigs are just redundant/useless after you fit all the normal mods on a sniperthron. Sensor rigs equally so. You wouldn't fit any speed rigs, and I wouldn't fit any armor rigs as that's equally of no use. Same with armor resistance rigs- the penalties are too great compared to the benefit.

Any other questions?

---

Originally by: Rick Thwaites

---

Perhaps this is making up for all the time that Caldari had a focus for rails, but no good BS to use them. Or the lack of a good sniper ship, or fleet ship.

Perhaps.

---

Originally by: Xori Ruscuv

---

Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus

---

If your already have great skills in one area train for another.. So far the Rohk is the Bs for the masses and even more uber if you are Caldari rail/blaster specialized..

---

This is where you're wrong, see?
You'd be RIGHT if there were ALL sorts of different ranges and types of T2 rail ammo.

But there isn't!

As a result, we have a battleship that can tank better and snipe as well (with T1 CRAP) as a T2 fitted battleship with uber skills. The Rokh has an insane about of PG and grid compared to other ships used for sniping.

THAT is just ****** up.

And a ship for the "masses"? **** the masses. We're talking about ships here that are used for very specialized endeavours with high end skills. Screw the masses. What, we're throwing this game to the masses now?

Screw them.

Oh wait, CCP is screwing the people who have specialized for **** like this.

Thanks for bending us the **** over.

---

Originally by: Hellown

---

So now, caldari have the best fleet sniping ship (and all fleet combat takes place over 180+ km, the best PVE ship (raven), best EW (scorp), hey lets just give caldari an IWIN button and be done with it eh CCP?

/me starts training caldari BS

---

Originally by: Audri Fisher

---

Edited by: Audri Fisher on 26/11/2006 06:53:03

Originally by: murder one

---

I'm saying that the difference between the Mega's tracking and the Rokhs tracking, after the addition of tracking computers/enhancers and then the penalties applied by Javelin/spike etc. is negligable.

Grid rigs don't have any drawbacks, so no, there is no CPU penalty and nor should they. As far as the Mega goes, and what types of rigs it would fit, I'm really at a loss as to what to suggest. Weapons rigs are just redundant/useless after you fit all the normal mods on a sniperthron. Sensor rigs equally so. You wouldn't fit any speed rigs, and I wouldn't fit any armor rigs as that's equally of no use. Same with armor resistance rigs- the penalties are too great compared to the benefit.

Any other questions?

---

So the issue here is that there are no rigs worth the effort for a sniper megathron?
There are a couple of options here. nerf the megas slots becuase it has to many with rigs comming out.
Or.... start tinkering with mega setups on sisi.... so you have a rig that could take the place of a mod? hmmm... I am sure a smart man like yourself could figure out something usefull to put in there. If not, I can always spam the ammarr whine threads about how you think that the mega has mids that aren't useful becuase of rigs.

---

Originally by: Rhamnousia

---

as far as the discussion go, i hav no quarrel with the point, which already been made at least one too many time, that the Rokh are a superior sniper boat than that of the Megathron or the Hyperion. It's designed to be so.

now, back to the point, as far as i can remember, i started as caldari, and switch over to gallente as my love for close range combat, so squat all that sniping bull's dung, i couldn't care less about sniping. but that's beyond the point of discussion.

let's put all the ships on the table for a close comparsion.

Rokh: shield tanked, rail boat.
- as stated, outrange and outdmg t2 Megathron/Hyperion with only t1 fitted. that's wrong, as in t1 mods should never hav advantages over t2, which take much, much MUCH more time to train for.
- designed to be a long range gunboat as the Caldari race lacking of, a good gun boat to compensate the raven's inability of dealin instant dmg.
- good resistance, the ship bonus really helping the tanking.

Megathron: armor tanked, blaster/drone boat.
- as stated, being outranged and outdmg'd by a t1 fitted Rokh while fitting t2 itself. this is wrong, but combat never meant to be skewed to one side, as far as fighting goes. a rail fitted Rokh would never outlast a t2 blaster fitted megathron at 2km. period.
- designed to be a short range battleship. but as far as blobbing goes, the need for reaching range 180km+ in a battleship arise, most gallente pilots hav been training for t2 rail as hope to be of use in fleet battles.
- tracking and dmg bonus on the megathron really helping hitting smaller/non-stationary targets.

Hyperion: closed-range blaster boat.
- as stated, being outdmg'd and outranged by the t1 fitted Rokh while spending months, if not less, to train for t2 rail. well, it's stated in the ship decrip-*******-tion that the Hyperion is a blasterboat.
- Most if not ALL gallente ships are sumwhat rely on their drones to help with the dmg. Hyperion get a smaller drone bay. 100m3, not much to talk about. 5 t2 heavies > 5 t2 mediums.
- scan resolution, locking range of the hyperion are both lower than the megathron, which still make the megathron a better blasterboat, at least in small-scale combat.
- the armor repper bonus skews the tanking to hyperion side as its survivalbility are much much better than the megathron with simply t2 tank and dual LAR.

with that said, gallente ships (both) would NEVER be better than Rokh at long range combat. period. but the rokh would never be a big threat to either the megathron or the hyperion at close range.

hyperion got 5 mid slots, that's MWD, cap injector, webber, scrambler, AND a tracking disruptor. good luck with hitting a hyperion sittin at 2km in a tracking disrupted rail-fitted Rokh. also, cap injector on the hyperion would outlast the horrid cap recharging on the rokh, but passive tank would take care of this problm for the Rokh, so it's a coin toss. but at the same time, hyperion got armor repper bonus, which really help with armor rep per cap vs. Rokh passive/resistance tank.

here i state again my conclusion of all this rubbish:

Stop trying to fight a ship "designed" for range combat when you are in a ship that are NOT.

sure rokh would screw up a lot of battle, just as the tempest did before. so what's new?

let's the flame begin.

---

Originally by: Rhamnousia

---

sure rokh would screw up a lot of battle, just as the tempest did before. so what's new?

---

Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus

---

bah anohter drunken post

FFS how hard is it to train up caldari bs to 4? you all are gong on like youll never ever ever ever ever get a rohk to fly or are too laxy to train for onw.. yeah so you have 3453453 years of specializing in gallente bs.. those skills dont carry over?!@ FFS a fleet bs is all about t6he weapons not the silly support skills.. you alreasy have large hyberid 5 so just put it on another bs FFS and pwn like the rest of us will on patch day.. Crippty crap i dont see yuall complinging abvout anything at all but stup pid ****.. diversity of skills is what long tern pleyars stength is not spcilazing in only one narrow field.. but bah its all about the attentioon i guess so keep[ spamming the forums with this ultimaltely futile crapppity crap.. tje devs wi;; just giggle some more after readng yet another whine thread of selfish desire to ve the only pwner on the block.. if youd just take a few measly weeks to trian for all races t1 youd not even be heer crying a river to the void..

gah

---

Originally by: xh'duality

---

Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus

---

bah anohter drunken post

FFS how hard is it to train up caldari bs to 4? you all are gong on like youll never ever ever ever ever get a rohk to fly or are too laxy to train for onw.. yeah so you have 3453453 years of specializing in gallente bs.. those skills dont carry over?!@ FFS a fleet bs is all about t6he weapons not the silly support skills.. you alreasy have large hyberid 5 so just put it on another bs FFS and pwn like the rest of us will on patch day.. Crippty crap i dont see yuall complinging abvout anything at all but stup pid ****.. diversity of skills is what long tern pleyars stength is not spcilazing in only one narrow field.. but bah its all about the attentioon i guess so keep[ spamming the forums with this ultimaltely futile crapppity crap.. tje devs wi;; just giggle some more after readng yet another whine thread of selfish desire to ve the only pwner on the block.. if youd just take a few measly weeks to trian for all races t1 youd not even be heer crying a river to the void..

gah

---

finaly some1 who see's it my way

---

Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus

---

FFS how hard is it to train up caldari bs to 4?

---

Originally by: murder one

---

Originally by: Audri Fisher

---

*SNIP*

---

Uh, what? Seriously, I'm totally confused by what you just said, didn't make any sense...

---

Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus

---

i specialized in my first 6 months then i ran out of things to specialize so i cross trained.. wow what a concept..

---

Originally by: Rorix Whitecloud

---

He said to use other rigs on your own megathron. In the rokh, if they're taken up by PG rigs, surely you can fit some useful rigs into the Megathron to make it nice vs the rokh.

---

Originally by: Tiger Kior

---

why even bother flying a gallente battleship - dont even get me started on how useless the domi is now - just pick off its drones and it a sitting duck now (like drones werent easy enough to kill now you got a nice HP bonus to do it and smile as you turn to killing the domi)

---

Originally by: kieron

---

The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.

---

Originally by: Aramendel

---

Originally by: Rorix Whitecloud

---

He said to use other rigs on your own megathron. In the rokh, if they're taken up by PG rigs, surely you can fit some useful rigs into the Megathron to make it nice vs the rokh.

---

None which can counter the range advantage of the rohk. "Surely" does not count. Look at the rigs before making incorrect assumptions.

---

Originally by: kieron

---

The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.

---

Originally by: Malthros Zenobia

---

Originally by: Tiger Kior

---

why even bother flying a gallente battleship - dont even get me started on how useless the domi is now - just pick off its drones and it a sitting duck now (like drones werent easy enough to kill now you got a nice HP bonus to do it and smile as you turn to killing the domi)

---

How do you kill the domi's drones when you're jammed and nossed dry?

---

Originally by: Butter Dog

---

Originally by: Malthros Zenobia

---

Originally by: Tiger Kior

---

why even bother flying a gallente battleship - dont even get me started on how useless the domi is now - just pick off its drones and it a sitting duck now (like drones werent easy enough to kill now you got a nice HP bonus to do it and smile as you turn to killing the domi)

---

How do you kill the domi's drones when you're jammed and nossed dry?

---

Following the ECM nerf you won't see the Domi using ECM.

---

Originally by: Butter Dog

---

Originally by: Malthros Zenobia

---

Originally by: Tiger Kior

---

why even bother flying a gallente battleship - dont even get me started on how useless the domi is now - just pick off its drones and it a sitting duck now (like drones werent easy enough to kill now you got a nice HP bonus to do it and smile as you turn to killing the domi)

---

How do you kill the domi's drones when you're jammed and nossed dry?

---

Following the ECM nerf you won't see the Domi using ECM.

---

Originally by: kieron

---

The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.

---

Originally by: anonymous

---

If you're being chased by a police dog, try not to go through a tunnel, then on to a little seesaw, then jump through a hoop of fire. They're trained for that.

---

Originally by: welsh wizard

---

Simple solution tbh.

Don't snipe.

---

Originally by: anonymous

---

If you're being chased by a police dog, try not to go through a tunnel, then on to a little seesaw, then jump through a hoop of fire. They're trained for that.

---

Originally by: Kibayasu Iella

---

Edited by: Kibayasu Iella on 26/11/2006 21:24:27

Originally by: welsh wizard

---

Simple solution tbh.

Don't snipe.

---

This would be the best idea ever, if only people would follow it. Imagine a 100vs100 at 0-20km

---

Originally by: welsh wizard

---

As far as I'm concerned the best thing about the large railgun batteries is antimatter and javelin ammo. The rest of its merely a distraction.

The op also conveniently forgot about the Megathrons tracking bonus. At the end of the day the most important thing as far as these railgun platforms are concerned is damage and both Gallente battleships are capable of outdamaging the Rokh.

The tech I Rokh just isn't in the same league as a tech II thron.

---

Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus

---

bah anohter drunken post

FFS how hard is it to train up caldari bs to 4? you all are gong on like youll never ever ever ever ever get a rohk to fly or are too laxy to train for onw.. yeah so you have 3453453 years of specializing in gallente bs.. those skills dont carry over?!@ FFS a fleet bs is all about t6he weapons not the silly support skills.. you alreasy have large hyberid 5 so just put it on another bs FFS and pwn like the rest of us will on patch day.. Crippty crap i dont see yuall complinging abvout anything at all but stup pid ****.. diversity of skills is what long tern pleyars stength is not spcilazing in only one narrow field.. but bah its all about the attentioon i guess so keep[ spamming the forums with this ultimaltely futile crapppity crap.. tje devs wi;; just giggle some more after readng yet another whine thread of selfish desire to ve the only pwner on the block.. if youd just take a few measly weeks to trian for all races t1 youd not even be heer crying a river to the void..

gah

---

Originally by: murder one

---

The Rokh would still be a great sniper and would still be the better long range ship due to it's better tank once you have all the requisite sniper mods fitted. TBH I think a 10% rang bonus in place of the tracking bonus on the Mega is a brilliant idea. Solves a lot of issues in one go.

---

Originally by: Aramendel

---

Originally by: murder one

---

The Rokh would still be a great sniper and would still be the better long range ship due to it's better tank once you have all the requisite sniper mods fitted. TBH I think a 10% rang bonus in place of the tracking bonus on the Mega is a brilliant idea. Solves a lot of issues in one go.

---

The problem is that the rohk does not only make the mega obsolete in fleet battles. The same problem is also present with minmatar and amarr ships.

---

Originally by: Malthros Zenobia

---

Personally, I like the fact that the Rokh slaps the abusrd longrange T2 ammo in the face, and will help remove the 'YOU MUST HAVE T2 GUNS TO BE USEFUL IN A SNIPER FLEET' situation that Spike has created.

Altho removing T2 ammo and remaking it into side-effect charges would still be a much, much better thing imo.

---

Originally by: infraX

---

Originally by: Malthros Zenobia

---

Personally, I like the fact that the Rokh slaps the abusrd longrange T2 ammo in the face, and will help remove the 'YOU MUST HAVE T2 GUNS TO BE USEFUL IN A SNIPER FLEET' situation that Spike has created.

Altho removing T2 ammo and remaking it into side-effect charges would still be a much, much better thing imo.

---

What makes you think that you deserve to be on par using T1 guns with someone that has specialized in gunnery and might have up to 10million skill points (or more) in one type of turret?

---

Originally by: Jin Steele

---

do you not understand that they dont want you to snipe? and giving the mega a range bonus would go against the description of gallente, and its ship line in smaller classes. it is designed to be short range, high damage. if you want the range, fly caldari.

---

Originally by: murder one

---

Edited by: murder one on 27/11/2006 13:10:44

Originally by: Jin Steele

---

do you not understand that they dont want you to snipe? and giving the mega a range bonus would go against the description of gallente, and its ship line in smaller classes. it is designed to be short range, high damage. if you want the range, fly caldari.

---

The mega doesn't even do short range well anymore. Everything was fine till the T2 ammo nerf. And wtf? Devs just want Caldari to snipe? Not anyone else?

Did you just say that the Devs are against anyone in the game being able to snipe besides Caldari? Did I just hear you right?

---

Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes

---

Originally by: murder one

---

Edited by: murder one on 27/11/2006 13:10:44

Originally by: Jin Steele

---

do you not understand that they dont want you to snipe? and giving the mega a range bonus would go against the description of gallente, and its ship line in smaller classes. it is designed to be short range, high damage. if you want the range, fly caldari.

---

The mega doesn't even do short range well anymore. Everything was fine till the T2 ammo nerf. And wtf? Devs just want Caldari to snipe? Not anyone else?

Did you just say that the Devs are against anyone in the game being able to snipe besides Caldari? Did I just hear you right?

---

I think you did.

The "roles" of the different races have allways been.
Caldari: Range.
Gallente: Damage.
Amarr: Tank.
Minmatar: Versility.

That they don't all live up to these ideals, they are what they are supposed to work towards. Rokh just does what its supposed to.

---

Originally by: murder one

---

Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes

---

Originally by: murder one

---

Edited by: murder one on 27/11/2006 13:10:44

Originally by: Jin Steele

---

do you not understand that they dont want you to snipe? and giving the mega a range bonus would go against the description of gallente, and its ship line in smaller classes. it is designed to be short range, high damage. if you want the range, fly caldari.

---

The mega doesn't even do short range well anymore. Everything was fine till the T2 ammo nerf. And wtf? Devs just want Caldari to snipe? Not anyone else?

Did you just say that the Devs are against anyone in the game being able to snipe besides Caldari? Did I just hear you right?

---

I think you did.

The "roles" of the different races have allways been.
Caldari: Range.
Gallente: Damage.
Amarr: Tank.
Minmatar: Versility.

That they don't all live up to these ideals, they are what they are supposed to work towards. Rokh just does what its supposed to.

---

I don't have an issue with the Rokh doing it's job. I do have an issue with no other races being able to compete with it.

---

Originally by: infraX

---

Originally by: Malthros Zenobia

---

Personally, I like the fact that the Rokh slaps the abusrd longrange T2 ammo in the face, and will help remove the 'YOU MUST HAVE T2 GUNS TO BE USEFUL IN A SNIPER FLEET' situation that Spike has created.

Altho removing T2 ammo and remaking it into side-effect charges would still be a much, much better thing imo.

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What makes you think that you deserve to be on par using T1 guns with someone that has specialized in gunnery and might have up to 10million skill points (or more) in one type of turret?

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Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes

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But they do compete.. just not in the same category.

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Originally by: James Lyrus

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Or are you trying to tell me you consider it unreasonable for 6mil sps characters to want to join in fleet battles?

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Originally by: James Lyrus

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Or are you trying to tell me you consider it unreasonable for 6mil sps characters to want to join in fleet battles?

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Originally by: Aramendel

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Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes

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But they do compete.. just not in the same category.

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The problem is that range > everything in fleet battles. It's the joker - you cannot counter it exept by itself. The only, singular counter you can use vs a fleet of enemy rohks is having a greater rohk fleet yourself.

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Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes

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Well, since everone will have these fleets of Roks, I will just fit a heave kin/therm tank.. making the enemy very predictable is a bad thing.. for the enemy

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Originally by: agram tabris

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Edited by: agram tabris on 27/11/2006 12:41:59

it's ok for me to see that caldari finaly can use rails.
howewer i don't agree that rails are caldari primary weapons. maybe on datasheets, but in game; 80%+ of caldari pilots prefer missiles.

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Originally by: Aramendel

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Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes

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Well, since everone will have these fleets of Roks, I will just fit a heave kin/therm tank.. making the enemy very predictable is a bad thing.. for the enemy

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And this will do you what good exactly if you cannot shoot back?

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Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes

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Originally by: Aramendel

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Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes

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Well, since everone will have these fleets of Roks, I will just fit a heave kin/therm tank.. making the enemy very predictable is a bad thing.. for the enemy

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And this will do you what good exactly if you cannot shoot back?

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Give me time to get in range. Even tho I'll only tank 3 or 4 vollies, it will give the rest of my fleet time to get closer. And if each of "us" can take 3 or 4 vollies before we are forced to warp away, the Rokh fleet will soon pressed. Yes, they can move, but that will make them miss more.

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Originally by: James Lyrus

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If we assume that we're not having fights at the utter extremes of range, how does e.g. a megathron rack up against a Rohk?

Intuitively, 25% damage bonus, and what 37.5% tracking should make the mega notably more effective a short ranges. 25% damage boost, being 8.75 'effective' guns. (and ignoring the fact you _could_ fit a launcher or a nos in that last slot) Even at BS 3, it's slightly ahead in terms of damage. Tracking of course, is harder to measure, but I can't help but feel it's effect shouldn't be ignored.

Has anyone drawn a damage graph of Rohk vs. Mega at all ranges up to 250km?

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