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Kali and Scorpion slot change?

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Jenny Spitfire Caldari Boryokudan Incorporated	Posted - 2006.11.25 13:47:00 - [1] Hi/mid/low - 6/8/5 +1 slot to low? --------- Boryokudan Recruitment. Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Kyguard Fire Mandrill Astrophobics	Posted - 2006.11.25 14:07:00 - [2] No thnx === It's great being Amarr, aint it?(tm) [Insert badass sig to match ego here]
Imperil Northern Intelligence SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.25 14:10:00 - [3] What I want for the scorpion is either +1 missile hardpoint or turret hardpoint. Support POS Overhaul - Read it NOW!
tiller Beer and Kebabs Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.25 14:12:00 - [4] low slots are pointless now, can't fit stabs lolol Click me for Pirate Coalition Website of Gankage
Verus Potestas Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2006.11.25 14:13:00 - [5] Actually sounds OK. Scorps need lowslots FAR more now, and it's short a slot compared to both the Geddon and Phoon. Dominix makes up for lack of a slot in HUGE drone bay. Between corps atm, the NPC one is strictly a temporary thing. RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy
Jenny Spitfire Caldari Boryokudan Incorporated	Posted - 2006.11.25 14:16:00 - [6] Typhoon - 19 slots Armageddon - 19 slots Scorpion - 18 slots Scorpion needs +1 low because of the new ECM damage mod. The battleship can't tank and it is only good to support gangs. The +1 low will not make it an overpowered damage dealer or tanker. ECM damage mod has been added into TQ and I think the Scorpion should get a +1 low slot. Dominix has 18 slots but Dominix is already good as it is. --------- Boryokudan Recruitment. Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Lucian Corvinus Gallente Expert Systems	Posted - 2006.11.25 14:21:00 - [7] Edited by: Lucian Corvinus on 25/11/2006 14:21:11 Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Typhoon - 19 slots Armageddon - 19 slots Scorpion - 18 slots Scorpion needs +1 low because of the new ECM damage mod. The battleship can't tank and it is only good to support gangs. The +1 low will not make it an overpowered damage dealer or tanker. ECM damage mod has been added into TQ and I think the Scorpion should get a +1 low slot. Dominix has 18 slots but Dominix is already good as it is. I could not agree more. The changes tux made to ecm also nerfed the dedicated ecm ships, so to be able to fit the low slot ecm module the scorp really needs an extra slot... I hope tux sees this logic too. Save the scorp please
Jenny Spitfire Caldari Boryokudan Incorporated	Posted - 2006.11.25 14:25:00 - [8] May be Blackbird needs slot reassigning. Tux, if you are reading this, please reassign Blackbird slots to Hi/Mid/Low - 3, 6, 3. --------- Boryokudan Recruitment. Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
dalman Finite Horizon	Posted - 2006.11.25 14:26:00 - [9] How about... No!? I don't know about you, but I like to call scorpions primary target already. Because the ship is already very very good. You need to boost something cause it's good or what? Am I forced to have any regret? I've become the lie, beautiful and free In my righteous own mind I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me
Verus Potestas Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2006.11.25 14:29:00 - [10] Originally by: dalman How about... No!? I don't know about you, but I like to call scorpions primary target already. Because the ship is already very very good. You need to boost something cause it's good or what? It actually nerfed pretty hard in Kali. It suddenly needs to use 3 low slots to get close to it's old abilities (and it can't reach them even then, unless it's changed since I last looked). Between corps atm, the NPC one is strictly a temporary thing. RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy

Lucian Corvinus Gallente Expert Systems	Posted - 2006.11.25 14:36:00 - [11] Originally by: dalman How about... No!? I don't know about you, but I like to call scorpions primary target already. Because the ship is already very very good. You need to boost something cause it's good or what? Perhaps you should find out what changes was made to the ECM system in KALI, and what impact those changes will have on the scorp before you post.
murder one Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.25 14:37:00 - [12] Originally by: Lucian Corvinus Originally by: dalman How about... No!? I don't know about you, but I like to call scorpions primary target already. Because the ship is already very very good. You need to boost something cause it's good or what? Perhaps you should find out what changes was made to the ECM system in KALI, and what impact those changes will have on the scorp before you post. I know exactly what changes have been made, I've flown the Scorp on test, and I stay "HELL NO". Because I said so...
Aequitas Veritas TAOSP Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.26 09:26:00 - [13] Originally by: murder one Originally by: Lucian Corvinus Originally by: dalman How about... No!? I don't know about you, but I like to call scorpions primary target already. Because the ship is already very very good. You need to boost something cause it's good or what? Perhaps you should find out what changes was made to the ECM system in KALI, and what impact those changes will have on the scorp before you post. I know exactly what changes have been made, I've flown the Scorp on test, and I stay "HELL NO". Didnt we put you in a cage so you should stop puking up crap on the forums all the time? "The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Lilani Kuzma Gallente Brass Monkeys Society The SUdden Death Squad	Posted - 2006.11.26 11:40:00 - [14] scorp does not need that extra slot it`s uber as it is!! soo al u bobits stfu
Mal Hondo THeOThErs Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.26 11:56:00 - [15] Originally by: Lilani Kuzma scorp does not need that extra slot it`s uber as it is!! soo al u bobits stfu very constructive. It is fine as it is - at the moment - but with kali it gets nerfed in a huge way. +1 low slot plz devs Hate something. Change something. Hate something, change something - make something better! Da doo be doo bi doo bi doo bi dooooooo!
Helpdesk Caldari The Patriot Pact	Posted - 2006.11.26 13:22:00 - [16] Seems like a reasonable change. In my opinion, neither the blackbird nor the scorpion are overpowered at the moment and should stay at their current strength after the patch. I figure these slot-changes would give them that. Scorp is losing it's (light) armor-tank for EW-upgrades anyway.
Darknar	Posted - 2006.11.26 19:28:00 - [17] i agree with everyone that the dominix large drone bay makes up a slop. but a utility hi slot would be handy for a tarctor beam. or a drone augmentor. i do like to make the most outta my ship with those 6 turret slots
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolance	Posted - 2006.11.26 19:38:00 - [18] Originally by: Aequitas Veritas Originally by: murder one Originally by: Lucian Corvinus Originally by: dalman How about... No!? I don't know about you, but I like to call scorpions primary target already. Because the ship is already very very good. You need to boost something cause it's good or what? Perhaps you should find out what changes was made to the ECM system in KALI, and what impact those changes will have on the scorp before you post. I know exactly what changes have been made, I've flown the Scorp on test, and I stay "HELL NO". Didnt we put you in a cage so you should stop puking up crap on the forums all the time? Pointless flaming that way please _________________________________________________
Aeaus Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.11.26 19:54:00 - [19] How about no? "The ECM strength bonus of the Scorpion and Falcon has been increased to 10% per level, while the Rook's has been increased to 20% per level." which goes a fair distance to bring the scorpion back to old performance levels. However the lackluster effect of ECM on non-ECM boats means less ECCM, thus more potency to ECM ships. If you recall the Dominix has the same number of slots since it has a unique role. Dominix = Drone BS. Scorpion = Only ECM BS. Unless of course you can convince me with numbers that I'm wrong, I'll keep arguing my point =) Last Weeks Signature
FFGR Maza Nostra Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.11.26 20:09:00 - [20] Hmmm let's see. Let's say a jammer has strength of 4 atm on TQ, once Kali hits it will be 2. With the new bonus of a Scorp at lvl5 you get a strength of 3 (2x1.5). With the "ECM mods" that are 20% you need 2 of them to get to 4.32 (assuming no stacking penalty), that is a bit less than having a Scorpion to BS lvl2 (4.4). There are also Rigs that enhance this and with 2 of them (assuming no stacking penalty again) you get to 5.2 strength that is a bit over a Scorp with BS lvl5 (5 strength), but due to stacking penalties, it will be below that. So, you have used 2 lowslots and 2 rigslots and you still jam less effectively as you did before Kali. This seems like a nerf to both non-ECM and ECM boats to me. _______ Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment

Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2006.11.26 20:21:00 - [21] Originally by: dalman How about... No!? I don't know about you, but I like to call scorpions primary target already. Because the ship is already very very good. You need to boost something cause it's good or what? IT's needs a lowslot boost because now 2-3 of those lowslots have to be ECM mods. Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2006.11.26 20:22:00 - [22] Originally by: Aeaus How about no? "The ECM strength bonus of the Scorpion and Falcon has been increased to 10% per level, while the Rook's has been increased to 20% per level." which goes a fair distance to bring the scorpion back to old performance levels. However the lackluster effect of ECM on non-ECM boats means less ECCM, thus more potency to ECM ships. If you recall the Dominix has the same number of slots since it has a unique role. Dominix = Drone BS. Scorpion = Only ECM BS. Unless of course you can convince me with numbers that I'm wrong, I'll keep arguing my point =) Due to having only 2 lowslots, the rook cannot get up to current ECM strength once kali hits, unless it uses ECM rigs as well. Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Paigan Amarr Katsu Corporation Pure.	Posted - 2006.11.26 20:30:00 - [23] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Typhoon - 19 slots Armageddon - 19 slots Scorpion - 18 slots Scorpion needs +1 low because of the new ECM damage mod. The battleship can't tank and it is only good to support gangs. The +1 low will not make it an overpowered damage dealer or tanker. ECM damage mod has been added into TQ and I think the Scorpion should get a +1 low slot. Dominix has 18 slots but Dominix is already good as it is. /signed -- This game is still in beta stage
welsh wizard Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2006.11.26 20:31:00 - [24] Originally by: Malthros Zenobia Originally by: Aeaus How about no? "The ECM strength bonus of the Scorpion and Falcon has been increased to 10% per level, while the Rook's has been increased to 20% per level." which goes a fair distance to bring the scorpion back to old performance levels. However the lackluster effect of ECM on non-ECM boats means less ECCM, thus more potency to ECM ships. If you recall the Dominix has the same number of slots since it has a unique role. Dominix = Drone BS. Scorpion = Only ECM BS. Unless of course you can convince me with numbers that I'm wrong, I'll keep arguing my point =) Due to having only 2 lowslots, the rook cannot get up to current ECM strength once kali hits, unless it uses ECM rigs as well. It can actually exceed it I believe. You can get roughly 14 jam strength with racials, 2 low ECM damage mods and 2 ECM strength rigs. The only thing lost is the 2 low slots. The Scorpion and Blackbird are a different matter. My advice is to just wait for the inevitable buff when it becomes obvious the ships are not being used at all. Originally by: anonymous If you're being chased by a police dog, try not to go through a tunnel, then on to a little seesaw, then jump through a hoop of fire. They're trained for that.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari Boryokudan Incorporated	Posted - 2006.11.26 20:52:00 - [25] Originally by: welsh wizard My advice is to just wait for the inevitable buff when it becomes obvious the ships are not being used at all. Next year? --------- Boryokudan Recruitment. Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Jenny Spitfire Caldari Boryokudan Incorporated	Posted - 2006.11.26 20:56:00 - [26] Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 26/11/2006 20:57:43 Originally by: FFGR Hmmm let's see. Let's say a jammer has strength of 4 atm on TQ, once Kali hits it will be 2. With the new bonus of a Scorp at lvl5 you get a strength of 3 (2x1.5). With the "ECM mods" that are 20% you need 2 of them to get to 4.32 (assuming no stacking penalty), that is a bit less than having a Scorpion to BS lvl2 (4.4). There are also Rigs that enhance this and with 2 of them (assuming no stacking penalty again) you get to 5.2 strength that is a bit over a Scorp with BS lvl5 (5 strength), but due to stacking penalties, it will be below that. So, you have used 2 lowslots and 2 rigslots and you still jam less effectively as you did before Kali. This seems like a nerf to both non-ECM and ECM boats to me. Hmmmm ... Could give Scorpion a +20% ECM strength per level and +1 low slots and no ECM nerf to ECM boats. :) --------- Boryokudan Recruitment. Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
FFGR Maza Nostra Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.11.26 21:06:00 - [27] Actually, I just went to SiSi (had to repatch ect) and Scorpion is now boosted to 20%. ATM it is : Scorp, Rook : 20% ECM effectiveness (at lvl5 you get the same strength as you did pre-patch without any ship bonuses) BB, Falcon, Griffin : 10% ECM effectiveness (at lvl5 you get 75% as you did pre-patch without any ship bonuses). No, I don't want my ships to be a pwnmobile, no I don't want to do 356289535 DPS, what I want is to be an effective support ship, something that is getting nerfed at Kali. _______ Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment
welsh wizard Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2006.11.26 21:06:00 - [28] Edited by: welsh wizard on 26/11/2006 21:06:50 It's the age of the dampener now, tech I ECM has had its day. I'm glad they nerfed ECM severely but slightly miffed that they've made two of our ships redundant. Ah well, to the Rokhmobile! edit: What happened to the Griffin btw? Does it get an ECM strength bonus or is it now completely and utterly pointless? Originally by: anonymous If you're being chased by a police dog, try not to go through a tunnel, then on to a little seesaw, then jump through a hoop of fire. They're trained for that.
Megadon Caldari Deathshead Inc.	Posted - 2006.11.26 21:09:00 - [29] I'm pretty sure Tux et al knew exactly what they were doing when they nerfed the scorp,blackbird,griffin etc and thats the way they want things to be. It wasn't enough to just nerf electronic warfare in general, they wanted to nerf EW ships as well so asking for more slots etc is akin to asking them to rollback their nerfbat of doom and that just ain't gonna happen.
welsh wizard Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2006.11.26 21:16:00 - [30] Edited by: welsh wizard on 26/11/2006 21:17:20 double post ftl Originally by: anonymous If you're being chased by a police dog, try not to go through a tunnel, then on to a little seesaw, then jump through a hoop of fire. They're trained for that.

welsh wizard Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2006.11.26 21:17:00 - [31] Its all good now if you ask me. (having learnt that the scorp gets a 20% bonus now) What they've done when you run the numbers through is made the right class of ships good at jamming a similar size of ship. The heavy duty jam ships (scorp and Rook) get around 12-14 jam strength with ECM mods and rigs so they are good at jamming BS. The BB, Griffin and Falcon come out at a little over half of that so they're ideal for jamming support. This is the way it should have been to begin with. Specialized ECM platforms performing specialized roles. Originally by: anonymous If you're being chased by a police dog, try not to go through a tunnel, then on to a little seesaw, then jump through a hoop of fire. They're trained for that.
welsh wizard Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2006.11.26 21:44:00 - [32] Well that was a lesson in "Don't believe everything you read". Scorp still only has a 10% bonus to ECM strength per level. Originally by: anonymous If you're being chased by a police dog, try not to go through a tunnel, then on to a little seesaw, then jump through a hoop of fire. They're trained for that.
FFGR Maza Nostra Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.11.26 22:47:00 - [33] Originally by: Megadon I'm pretty sure Tux et al knew exactly what they were doing when they nerfed the scorp,blackbird,griffin etc and thats the way they want things to be. It wasn't enough to just nerf electronic warfare in general, they wanted to nerf EW ships as well so asking for more slots etc is akin to asking them to rollback their nerfbat of doom and that just ain't gonna happen. The ECM drones are not affected by the changes though One heavy ECM drone = new multispec strength. That is an indirect buff to ships with drone bays (the only t2 Caldari ships with drone bay are the Nighthawk and the Vulture that are BC hulls with 25m3 each). _______ Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment
Audri Fisher Caldari The Keep THE R0CK	Posted - 2006.11.26 23:19:00 - [34] Originally by: murder one Originally by: Lucian Corvinus Originally by: dalman How about... No!? I don't know about you, but I like to call scorpions primary target already. Because the ship is already very very good. You need to boost something cause it's good or what? Perhaps you should find out what changes was made to the ECM system in KALI, and what impact those changes will have on the scorp before you post. I know exactly what changes have been made, I've flown the Scorp on test, and I stay "HELL NO". well I guess that says it all, becuase he said so.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari Boryokudan Incorporated	Posted - 2006.11.26 23:22:00 - [35] Originally by: Audri Fisher Originally by: murder one Originally by: Lucian Corvinus Originally by: dalman How about... No!? I don't know about you, but I like to call scorpions primary target already. Because the ship is already very very good. You need to boost something cause it's good or what? Perhaps you should find out what changes was made to the ECM system in KALI, and what impact those changes will have on the scorp before you post. I know exactly what changes have been made, I've flown the Scorp on test, and I stay "HELL NO". well I guess that says it all, becuase he said so. May be he should fit an ECCM. --------- Boryokudan Recruitment. Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Thornspawn Chalice	Posted - 2006.11.27 00:35:00 - [36] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Dominix has 18 slots but Dominix is already good as it is. domi too gimped need 1 more medslot = kali means no ecm on domi so no worry don't nerf my domi give us new medslot plzz
Estrago Caldari Eve guardians Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.27 01:19:00 - [37] Edited by: Estrago on 27/11/2006 01:26:58 Edited by: Estrago on 27/11/2006 01:21:01 Edited by: Estrago on 27/11/2006 01:19:48 Originally by: FFGR Actually, I just went to SiSi (had to repatch ect) and Scorpion is now boosted to 20%. ATM it is : Scorp, Rook : 20% ECM effectiveness (at lvl5 you get the same strength as you did pre-patch without any ship bonuses) BB, Falcon, Griffin : 10% ECM effectiveness (at lvl5 you get 75% as you did pre-patch without any ship bonuses). No, I don't want my ships to be a pwnmobile, no I don't want to do 356289535 DPS, what I want is to be an effective support ship, something that is getting nerfed at Kali. If they do that for the Scorp, then no one will use the Caldari recons. I think giving the Falcon and Scorp both either an extra lowslot or 15% and the Rook an extra lowslot or 25% would be fair. The Rook is supposed to be the strongest of the ECM ships, it's a Combat Recon. Just giving the Scorp 20% would make it way overpowered compared to the other two higher class ECM ships due to it's 4 lowslots. - Someone save me from this Sanity.
welsh wizard Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2006.11.27 01:24:00 - [38] Your Rook isn't obsolete in fact I'd lean towards calling it a boost. Use jam strength rigs and the new low-slot ECM damage mods. It's had its low slots gimped essentially (coz you need to fit said damage mods) but when you think about the possibilities using HAM's its looking a tasty ship. The Scorpion 20% to ECM strength level thing isn't true. It's still only 10% per level. :( Originally by: anonymous If you're being chased by a police dog, try not to go through a tunnel, then on to a little seesaw, then jump through a hoop of fire. They're trained for that.
Estrago Caldari Eve guardians Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.27 01:30:00 - [39] Good to hear, and I know that you can get about the same total strength, but that's giving up the light tanks they used to be able to have. They nerfed it because other ships could use ECM and an awesome tank. Having to use the rig to be as good is also giving up an advantage all the other ships will have. - Someone save me from this Sanity.
welsh wizard Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2006.11.27 01:58:00 - [40] Well I meant if they don't nerf Javelins, fat chance ;) Originally by: anonymous If you're being chased by a police dog, try not to go through a tunnel, then on to a little seesaw, then jump through a hoop of fire. They're trained for that.

FFGR Maza Nostra Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.11.27 02:08:00 - [41] tbh, why I bother ? All hail Lachesis, with over 70% dampening (2 dampening rigs do wonders), while I get a 100% increase on my scramblers and WCS got a nerf in combat usefulness, aswell as I can do much more damage than my Rook and still use 4 medium ECM drones _______ Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment
welsh wizard Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2006.11.27 02:22:00 - [42] I've said it before but damps are the new Ewar King, it'll just take a while for everyone to realise it. Originally by: anonymous If you're being chased by a police dog, try not to go through a tunnel, then on to a little seesaw, then jump through a hoop of fire. They're trained for that.
FFGR Maza Nostra Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.11.27 03:24:00 - [43] Originally by: welsh wizard I've said it before but damps are the new Ewar King, it'll just take a while for everyone to realise it. Damps and ECMs were always the 2 best EW systems (old style dampening scorps anyone ? ), if they go in like they are atm, personally I will prefer having 2 to 4 enemies locked down all the time instead of 0 to 7 _______ Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment
Tanya Kovacs SteelVipers YouWhat	Posted - 2006.11.27 08:41:00 - [44] Edited by: Tanya Kovacs on 27/11/2006 08:44:53 Edited by: Tanya Kovacs on 27/11/2006 08:42:50 Originally by: FFGR Actually, I just went to SiSi (had to repatch ect) and Scorpion is now boosted to 20%. ATM it is : Scorp, Rook : 20% ECM effectiveness (at lvl5 you get the same strength as you did pre-patch without any ship bonuses) Yay, this are actually great news \o/ I tested on SiSi this weekend and the scorp was weaker then before if you want the same ECM-strength. You would have fewer armor then pre-Kali (always remember other ships have more), battles would last longer and ECM-strength was weaker then pre-Kali. So 20%/level are actually very good news to bring it to a level were it was pre-Kali. But I agree with the statement about the Rook: why flying a Rook when you can have a fully insurable ship with same strength, more damage and more hitpoints? And no Scorps are not the almighty pwnmobile - they are primary all the time. Fly one in fleetbattles and rethink your statements please. Originally by: welsh wizard I've said it before but damps are the new Ewar King, it'll just take a while for everyone to realise it. QFT. Well there is a stacking penatly for dampening per target but dampening it to hell (not only the range but also the locking time) will be really effective. -- All my postings reflects just my personal opinion and my lacking knowledge of proper english. There is no lag in EVE \o/
Jenny Spitfire Caldari Boryokudan Incorporated	Posted - 2006.11.27 09:29:00 - [45] Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 27/11/2006 09:30:07 Originally by: Tanya Kovacs But I agree with the statement about the Rook: why flying a Rook when you can have a fully insurable ship with same strength, more damage and more hitpoints? Mobility. Better resists. Small signature. Better sensor for jamming prevention. May be Tux could do a slot reassignment on the Rook so it can fit ECM damage mods. 6/7/2 to 5/7/3 and +20%/+22.5% ECM strength per level? --------- Boryokudan Recruitment. Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Tanya Kovacs SteelVipers YouWhat	Posted - 2006.11.27 09:50:00 - [46] Edited by: Tanya Kovacs on 27/11/2006 09:53:34 Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 27/11/2006 09:30:07 Originally by: Tanya Kovacs But I agree with the statement about the Rook: why flying a Rook when you can have a fully insurable ship with same strength, more damage and more hitpoints? Mobility. Better resists. Small signature. Better sensor for jamming prevention. May be Tux could do a slot reassignment on the Rook so it can fit ECM damage mods. 6/7/2 to 5/7/3 and +20%/+22.5% ECM strength per level? Yeah you are right with your points. Only point I disagree is the validity of higher resistances - I think more raw hitpoints would still be better. But I didn't do the math how many "raw hp" both the Rook and the Scorpion have, when you calculate the resistances into HP. We also forgot another point: the way higher sensor resolution of the Rook. Think both of the ships have pros and cons. Scorp can fit cruise/torp, ***load of plates (a must have), heavy NOS and can warp way further. Rook has the advantages you mentioned. But I think Rook should be a bit better then a Scorp when talking about jammingstrength. So one more lowslot at the cost of one/two highslots or slightly higher bonus/level would be nice. -- All my postings reflects just my personal* opinion and my lacking knowledge of proper english. There is no lag in EVE \o/
welsh wizard Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2006.11.27 10:16:00 - [47] The Scorpion still only has a 10% bonus to ECM strength though so don't get too excited. Originally by: anonymous If you're being chased by a police dog, try not to go through a tunnel, then on to a little seesaw, then jump through a hoop of fire. They're trained for that.
Tanya Kovacs SteelVipers YouWhat	Posted - 2006.11.27 10:24:00 - [48] Originally by: welsh wizard The Scorpion still only has a 10% bonus to ECM strength though so don't get too excited. Um on page one somebody mentioned it was changed on SiSi? Originally by: FFGR Actually, I just went to SiSi (had to repatch ect) and Scorpion is now boosted to 20%. -- All my postings reflects just my personal opinion and my lacking knowledge of proper english. There is no lag in EVE \o/
Jenny Spitfire Caldari Boryokudan Incorporated	Posted - 2006.11.27 10:26:00 - [49] Originally by: Tanya Kovacs But I think Rook should be a bit better then a Scorp when talking about jammingstrength. HACs are not battleships. --------- Boryokudan Recruitment. Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
welsh wizard Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2006.11.27 10:29:00 - [50] Originally by: Tanya Kovacs Originally by: welsh wizard The Scorpion still only has a 10% bonus to ECM strength though so don't get too excited. Um on page one somebody mentioned it was changed on SiSi? Originally by: FFGR Actually, I just went to SiSi (had to repatch ect) and Scorpion is now boosted to 20%. It isn't, not sure why he said that. Originally by: anonymous If you're being chased by a police dog, try not to go through a tunnel, then on to a little seesaw, then jump through a hoop of fire. They're trained for that.

Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.27 11:15:00 - [51] Prolly confused the range with the strength bonus. Which, btw, is a major difference between damperners and ECM. Max optimal range of damperners is 45k. Max optimal range of (racial) ECM is 135k.
FFGR Maza Nostra Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.11.27 11:29:00 - [52] Originally by: welsh wizard Originally by: Tanya Kovacs Originally by: welsh wizard The Scorpion still only has a 10% bonus to ECM strength though so don't get too excited. Um on page one somebody mentioned it was changed on SiSi? Originally by: FFGR Actually, I just went to SiSi (had to repatch ect) and Scorpion is now boosted to 20%. It isn't, not sure why he said that. Had seen it from the description, I haven't used one to see how much it is so disregard my previous post about the 20% Scorp. Still, a new version got out and I'm unable atm to get in the test server, so if anyone could be a dear Originally by: Aramendel Prolly confused the range with the strength bonus. Which, btw, is a major difference between damperners and ECM. Max optimal range of damperners is 45k. Max optimal range of (racial) ECM is 135k. With Dampeners (and TP, TD's) you tend to play on falloff rather than optimal since those modules are either effect or no effect, while with ECM, Sensor Strength, ECM strength aswell as optimal and falloff are taken into consideration. Trying to jam anything with ECM in optimal+falloff is like trying to get the ball into the basket from the other side of the field (since the chances drop by 50%). Trying to jam anything in optimal+2*falloff and beyong ... well let's just say that you need to go and get some lottery tickets ASAP if you succeed. And optimal for racial ECM is higher, can't remember the exact value atm. _______ Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.27 11:34:00 - [53] Edited by: Aramendel on 27/11/2006 11:34:46 Originally by: FFGR With Dampeners (and TP, TD's) you tend to play on falloff rather than optimal since those modules are either effect or no effect The problem is that in falloff their effect has AFAIK a 50% chance to fail. Which makes them rather unrelyable there. And unlike ECM 1 module succeeding in it's roll is usually not enough to effeciently disable a ship. Also, even if you take their falloff into account racial ECM stil lhas a considerable longer range due to the ship boni of ECM ships.
FFGR Maza Nostra Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:07:00 - [54] Originally by: Aramendel Edited by: Aramendel on 27/11/2006 11:34:46 Originally by: FFGR With Dampeners (and TP, TD's) you tend to play on falloff rather than optimal since those modules are either effect or no effect The problem is that in falloff their effect has AFAIK a 50% chance to fail. Which makes them rather unrelyable there. And unlike ECM 1 module succeeding in it's roll is usually not enough to effeciently disable a ship. Also, even if you take their falloff into account racial ECM stil lhas a considerable longer range due to the ship boni of ECM ships. In optimal+falloff it's 50%, the closer you get to optimal, the greater the chance. For example you have a 30km optimal and 30km falloff EW module, if your target is at 45km from you, then it's a 75% chance of succeeding. As for range, depending how far away the enemy is, with a damp you can shut him more effectively. Thing is that for Dampening, every single skill and bonus you have counts, aswell as the shiptype and skills of the player you encounter while with ECM it's just a lottery. _______ Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:16:00 - [55] Edited by: James Lyrus on 27/11/2006 12:20:10 Actually if you pack out your scorp or rook, by which I mean all lows and all rig slots with 'ecm strength' you just about sc****past the pre-kali levels. By which I mean with BS5, Signal dispersion 5, and multispec IIs a scorpion gets 7.56 jamming strength. (Compared to 7.5 at the moment). However in order to get that you're using up all your lows and all your rig slots. Now I don't know about anyone else, but I consider that quite a heavy nerf to a ship I previously considered 'quite reasonable'. I've flown it in 'small gang' PvP, and even tried soloing in it a few times. It really wasn't overpowered. It _was_ possible to kill stuff occasionally, but ... well that should be possible in any ship. The fact that a scorp wins solo against a cruiser shouldn't really be a major shock to anyone :). (Even then it takes embarassingly long, to the point where it might just be able to crawl back to the gate). shrug*. I'll try it again, but I suspect it'll go in the 'fleet only' drawer, if I don't end up in Rohk instead. Damps always were very potent EW choices. Personally I think it's more the case that people 'understand' how to use ECMs rather than take advantage of the massive power of tracking disruptors and damps.
FFGR Maza Nostra Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:27:00 - [56] @James Lyrus New Standard Fleet Issue Scorpion High : 4x cruise launchers, 1x NOS, 1x remote repairer Medium : 6x Tracking Disruptors t2, 2x Sensor Booster Low : 4x 1600mm plates Surely it will be better in fleets since everyone is sniping _______ Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment
Jenny Spitfire Caldari Boryokudan Incorporated	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:50:00 - [57] Originally by: James Lyrus ... Why not you fly a Scorpion every time you login into EvE for the next one month and tell us what you think after that? I am very sure you will change your current view. --------- Boryokudan Recruitment. Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.27 13:22:00 - [58] Originally by: James Lyrus Damps always were very potent EW choices. Personally I think it's more the case that people 'understand' how to use ECMs rather than take advantage of the massive power of tracking disruptors and damps. The problem is that the "massive power" of TDs/SDs has rather huge loopholes. They have compareable strength to ECM vs the ships they are effective against - but unlike ecm they also have a good number of ships where they are useless. Both have a rather limited effect on ships smaller than you (ECM actually gets better there) and while damperners are not really that effective vs closerange ships TDs also have zero effects vs nos, missiles, ecm, damperners, warp scramblers and also are not really very effective vs ACs/Blasters of the same size or smaller. An ac rupture and blaster throax will still be able to hit an arbi which has 3 TDs on them quite well. ECM has no natural enemies. Exept drones, that is, but only under specific conditions and it also shares that weakness with the other EW systems.
LoKesh Amarr InQuest Ascension Vertigo Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.27 21:59:00 - [59] Originally by: Megadon I'm pretty sure Tux et al knew exactly what they were doing when they nerfed the scorp,blackbird,griffin etc and thats the way they want things to be. I'd really like to hear that from the horse's mouth. As much as I like Eve and trust CCP, I realize that sometimes they they miss things (especially in the midst of big projects like Kali) Originally by: Megadon It wasn't enough to just nerf electronic warfare in general, they wanted to nerf EW ships as well so asking for more slots etc is akin to asking them to rollback their nerfbat of doom and that just ain't gonna happen. Reading the devblog on ECM would suggest otherwise: http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=380 I'm not gonna quote, as that seems to be frowned upon - but the general summary of the first paragraph is that dedicated ECM ships were fine - powerful, but easily killed when a jam fails. Now they jam less often, and then have even less defense. An additional low slot on all these ships (even at the cost of a high slot) would fix this. As would slightly bumping up the ship bonus (ie 15%/lvl and 25-30%)
LoKesh Amarr InQuest Ascension Vertigo Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.27 22:02:00 - [60] Originally by: Aramendel ECM has SEVERAL, RATHER EFFECTIVE natural enemies. These include - Drones (which chew straight through ECM dedicated ships), FoF missiles, smart bombs, sensor dampeners, any ship with a fast lock time. Edit for truth

James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.27 23:08:00 - [61] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: James Lyrus ... Why not you fly a Scorpion every time you login into EvE for the next one month and tell us what you think after that? I am very sure you will change your current view. What, the overpowered or the underpowered one? I'll be field testing it in empire wars, but am rather afraid I won't have the lock time to actually get any kills :).
Jenny Spitfire Caldari Northern Intelligence SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.27 23:14:00 - [62] Originally by: James Lyrus Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: James Lyrus ... Why not you fly a Scorpion every time you login into EvE for the next one month and tell us what you think after that? I am very sure you will change your current view. What, the overpowered or the underpowered one? I'll be field testing it in empire wars, but am rather afraid I won't have the lock time to actually get any kills :). The average Scorpion. It is pointless to test an underpowered or an overpowered Scorpion. On second thought, test all three. I doubt the Scorpion is going to be that overpowered because if it is, you won't last long in a fight. If it is underpowered, you can tank but you are also useless in your gang. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.28 00:03:00 - [63] Originally by: LoKesh Edit for truth If you want to include stupidity make your own posts about it but do not pollute stuff with my name with it, thank you very much. drones - as said, they effect all other EW ships, too. If you think a lachesis has a better tank than a rook think again. FoF missiles - only work if you are the nearest thing to the ECM ship. And, again effect under these circumstances any EW cruiser. Smart bombs - HAHAHAHAHA. And, again, effects other EW just as much (assuming you are stupid enough to let a BS come close enough to you). Sensor damperners - true. But is countered by sensor damperners being disabled by ECM. It's usually a question who locks first. Ships with a fast lock time - oh, fig A has locked me. 5 seconds later: oh, frig A is jammed. You are kidding with that, right? If that is for you "natural enemies" try in addition to this: - frigs having a sensor strength of 80 and cruisers of 40 (so ECM has the same effeciency reduction vs smaller ships as SDs and TDs have). - if a ship goes below 1-5k (depending on size) distance to you ECM does not work (if you want to go the damperner emulation route) - ECM only stops turrets from working, but leaves everything else alone (if you want to go the TD emulation route THEN you might have cause to complain.
Dane Hur Caldari DaHOOD Communication	Posted - 2006.11.28 00:07:00 - [64] Well I checked out the scorp on the test server as well, without rigs, since they are not on the market, but a tech II adds 15% strenght, at the cost of 10% shield. However, with a amplifier (low slot) I get 6.5 jammer strenght with racial jammers, on the public server I get 9.5 without giving up a low slot, I have to say that I am disappointed.
Majin82 Caldari g guild	Posted - 2006.11.28 00:08:00 - [65] I am really kicking my self in the nuts due to buying 8 Hypnos Multi's just before finding out about the Nerf. ------------------------------------- Proud member of G Guild!


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