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Isyel
Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2006.11.27 12:01:00 -
[31]
I've given up already.
*eyes her Hurricane with ECM* Yes, i've fallen that low. A certain person showed me how the 'cane can "own" if you put ecm on it. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Might As well Train Another Race
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Romulan Dominiae
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Posted - 2006.11.27 12:14:00 -
[32]
the hurricane can fit 2 launchers in addition to the 6 turrets? that would make 8 active weapon systems. The other new BCs geht 6 or 7. what do you whine about lol. Did you even look at the design?
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Ammon Ishar
Monks of War
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Posted - 2006.11.27 12:28:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Romulan Dominiae the hurricane can fit 2 launchers in addition to the 6 turrets? that would make 8 active weapon systems. The other new BCs geht 6 or 7. what do you whine about lol. Did you even look at the design?
Ok, give hurricane 7th turret slot and remove all missile. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Might As well Train Another Race |
Mysterlee
Gallente 5punkorp Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.27 12:29:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Mysterlee on 27/11/2006 12:29:44 I agree, give the hurricane its 7th turret back, remove the launchers completely if you have to.
Edit: beaten to it^
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Necronus
Amarr Monks of War
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Posted - 2006.11.27 12:49:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Ammon Ishar
Originally by: Romulan Dominiae the hurricane can fit 2 launchers in addition to the 6 turrets? that would make 8 active weapon systems. The other new BCs geht 6 or 7. what do you whine about lol. Did you even look at the design?
Ok, give hurricane 7th turret slot and remove all missile.
Better to remove launchers without adding a gun. :)
7 guns ? ok Then remove 1-2 low slots. That would be fair.
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Wrayeth
Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2006.11.27 12:51:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Wrayeth on 27/11/2006 12:51:34
Originally by: Necronus
7 guns ? ok Then remove 1-2 low slots. That would be fair.
Wrong. The hurricane gets no tanking bonus, so removing lowslots is not necessary. As an example, the brutix has one fewer lowslot, but it it can run 7 guns that each individually outdamage autocannons after ship bonuses and can tank just as well thanks to its tanking bonus.
As another poster said, the proper way to fix the hurricane is to give it a 7th turret slot and suppress the launchers entirely. -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Might As well Train Another Race |
Atar
Perpetua Umbra Brotherhood Of Steel
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Posted - 2006.11.27 13:28:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
Originally by: Atar Why wouldn't you use ACs on the myr, it has no bonus to any weapon, I can make an almost cap independent ship with ACs don't like 425's use 220's all the same.
Because NOS is more powerful than any gun atm :(
I think the key to balancing NOS is to fix cap use of existing items in the game. Ie. changing anything about NOS is not the answer.
Ships that don't need/can't fit guns (like drone ships) need to be able to use NOS but not having going around WTFPWNING people. People who can't fit NOS need to not be totally screwed by not fitting NOS. It makes me so angry that I'm going to end up having to put NOS on my blasterships to make them viable. Call it adapting - call it what you like - but I call it "SUCK!!!!!"
I agree completely! But imagine this (this happend to me) someone with 6 nos on there myr attacks me and drains my cap dry, but I don't care, I can still fire weapons and have a passive tanks that dosen't need cap, so there nos just start draining there own cap becaue it can't pull anything from mine, then they die from loss of cap becasue they can't run there active tank, evil, not really practical!
Anyhow this isn't about the myr, give back the turret and remove missiles on Hurricane!
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Draycar Hazaran
eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.27 13:45:00 -
[38]
I fully endorse removing all launcher points in favor of the 7th turret point. If you want NOS or launchers, fly the Cyclone.
Might As well Train Another Race |
Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground Rule of Three
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Posted - 2006.11.27 13:46:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 27/11/2006 13:46:34
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Vim
Spiritus Draconis
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Posted - 2006.11.27 18:44:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Draycar Hazaran I fully endorse removing all launcher points in favor of the 7th turret point. If you want NOS or launchers, fly the Cyclone.
Aye aye, be gone launcher points, 7th turret will be fun enough =) *sniff* /* Teach a rookie today watch him takedown a battleship tomorrow... */ |
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Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground Rule of Three
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Posted - 2006.11.27 19:27:00 -
[41]
Yeah, removing the launcher points would do it for me too. heh.
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2006.11.27 21:47:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 27/11/2006 04:16:48 I'll be reasonable this time.
The Drake has received its 7th missile back. The Drake can tank. It can do good damage. Some might say that this is over the top. Personally, I don't care as long as other races are able to compete.
Now then: Bring back the Hurricane's 7th turret. This is a gank ship. Having no tank bonus, its tank is weak (average at best). It deserves to be able to do gank-level DPS. Enough said.
So, how about it, CCP?
Even though it does not have a tank bonus its tank is fantastic, especialy considering its very competent gank. With 7 guns the thing was ganking better [or as good] as the best ganking Harbinger and fitting a tank more than twice as good. It was making Drakes look pitiful.
For the most part, it still does, the damage decrease from the loss of the 7th turret on AC setups is not that significant when replaced by a HAM, and even then the amount of tank you can fit on the thing with a very competent gank is ridiculous.
You can fill up the highs with ACs/HAMs and still fit an injected Dual MARII, 1600mm tank. On a ship that is fast and small.
The thing has the same cap as a Prophesy, but its guns dont use cap, it doesnt have a tanking bonus, but it has more powergrid and so much more after fitting autocannons that it will most likly out-tank the prophesy.
If rigs were working right and not penalized with mods then the problem would get even worse.
As it stands, the Hurricane is still a very good BC with 6 turrets. I wouldnt mind it having more gank[in the form of a 7th turret], but if that happens, something has to be done about its tank.
And the problem with doing that is removing the ability to fit artillery cannons.
The Hurricane issue cannot be fixed with simple turret reductions or additions[and really the turret reduction didnt help the problem much], like the laser issue it runs deeper. And it runs to the CPU/PG use of autocannons. The use is so low that Autocannons cannot be balanced for atrillery boats. So if anything looks like a nice arty boat, its going to be superomg awesome for autocannons.
Anyway, the point is that if you give it back its 7th turret without fixing the autocannon problem first it becomes clearly and obviously broken[I.E. better than the other BC's by a clear demonstable amount], doing so would be bad because of it.
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Rezeik Aurelius
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Posted - 2006.11.27 22:20:00 -
[43]
I'd like to see them differentiate between the autocannon tiers a little more, making more than a 10 percent performance increase going from 180s to 425s. While adjusting the grid accordingly, of course. The easiest fix would be to use the lowest tiers as a baseline and just increase the grid and DPS of the middle and top tiers.
I know at this stage of the game it's pretty unlikely to see an overhaul, but it would accomplish several things:
A) Make the largest ACs worth using.
B) Along those same lines, allow those who choose to use the bigger guns more competitive DPS for more grid.
C) Increasing the grid of ACs so there isn't such a huge discrepancy between arty and AC/tank boats.
D) Actually force tankers to sacrifice noticeable DPS to fit a great defense.
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2006.11.27 22:45:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Rezeik Aurelius I'd like to see them differentiate between the autocannon tiers a little more, making more than a 10 percent performance increase going from 180s to 425s. While adjusting the grid accordingly, of course. The easiest fix would be to use the lowest tiers as a baseline and just increase the grid and DPS of the middle and top tiers.
I know at this stage of the game it's pretty unlikely to see an overhaul, but it would accomplish several things:
A) Make the largest ACs worth using.
B) Along those same lines, allow those who choose to use the bigger guns more competitive DPS for more grid.
C) Increasing the grid of ACs so there isn't such a huge discrepancy between arty and AC/tank boats.
D) Actually force tankers to sacrifice noticeable DPS to fit a great defense.
That would be great, but you would then have to mess with ships[cause they all have the dmg or rof bonus] in order to fix the balance issues that would be caused by simply increasing DPS.
A better way would be to increase the PG on the big/medium guns to look more like blasters and pulse lasers and then increase the DPS of the big gun while decreaseing the DPS of the small and medium guns. 220's shouldnt be competitive with Heavy Pulses and instead be competative with FMP's. If not slightly worse due to cap use.
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Majin82
Caldari g guild
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Posted - 2006.11.27 22:52:00 -
[45]
Yes the drake got the 7th launcher back... the thing is gonna become the worlds most powerful Guristas killer.
How about this for a deal:
We give you our 7th launcher from the Drake and we get a ROF bonus and a Velocity Bonus? ------------------------------------- Proud member of G Guild! |
Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground Rule of Three
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Posted - 2006.11.27 23:04:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Majin82 Yes the drake got the 7th launcher back... the thing is gonna become the worlds most powerful Guristas killer.
How about this for a deal:
We give you our 7th launcher from the Drake and we get a ROF bonus and a Velocity Bonus?
It doesn't work that way. Let me see if I can simplify it a bit for you.
Hurricane: It doesn't have a tank, it needs gank Drake: it has a tank, it doesn't get gank
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Atar
Perpetua Umbra Brotherhood Of Steel
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Posted - 2006.11.27 23:08:00 -
[47]
Heh giving the hurricane will put it on top and overpowed huh? People need to get out and really test the other ships, with the 7 turrets I could go even to a harbringer, now with the 6 a decent harbringer pilot will kill me almost everytime. The drake will just out tank me till i'm out of cap and can't repair, and the myr will either have outstanding DPS, or NOS to again destroy my tank.
hurricane needs to be a gank ship. The real problem here isn't the ACs or 7 turrets, it's the oversized plates on ships, but to combat that more DPS is needed and the 50% increase only makes that worse. For me it isn't that I can't use missiles, for once it would be nice to have a minmatar ship that only uses one weapon type.
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Majin82
Caldari g guild
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Posted - 2006.11.27 23:15:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
Originally by: Majin82 Yes the drake got the 7th launcher back... the thing is gonna become the worlds most powerful Guristas killer.
How about this for a deal:
We give you our 7th launcher from the Drake and we get a ROF bonus and a Velocity Bonus?
It doesn't work that way. Let me see if I can simplify it a bit for you.
Hurricane: It doesn't have a tank, it needs gank Drake: it has a tank, it doesn't get gank
WE DON'T WANT ANOTHER ******* TANK! We have enough Mission runners as it is.
Most ppl, Caldari or not would have rather they fixed the Drake by:
- Remove the Resists per level Bonus (The main problem with this ship from the Get go) - Give it back 7th laucher (as long as they Nerf Jav HAM's) - Give it back the ROF bonus (Very Needed for PVP) - Give it a missile velocity bonus (in lue of the Resist bonus)
Give back the Hurrican the 7th Turret!
------------------------------------- Proud member of G Guild! |
Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground Rule of Three
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Posted - 2006.11.27 23:28:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 27/11/2006 23:28:21
Originally by: Majin82 WE DON'T WANT ANOTHER ******* TANK! We have enough Mission runners as it is.
Sorry, mate :(
Quote: Most ppl, Caldari or not would have rather they fixed the Drake by: - Remove the Resists per level Bonus (The main problem with this ship from the Get go) - Give it back 7th laucher (as long as they Nerf Jav HAM's) - Give it back the ROF bonus (Very Needed for PVP) - Give it a missile velocity bonus (in lue of the Resist bonus) Give back the Hurrican the 7th Turret!
Yeah... make it a gank ship with no tank, I'm fine with that (assuming that all of that doesn't put the DPS at an unreasonable level - we have to consider the fact that missiles don't miss and have a long range). But yeah... assuming the DPS was balanced, I'd be totally fine with that.
I think that CCP is trying to KILL gankships, though... so you may have a better thing than you realize!
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Atar
Perpetua Umbra Brotherhood Of Steel
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Posted - 2006.11.27 23:36:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
Yeah... make it a gank ship with no tank, I'm fine with that (assuming that all of that doesn't put the DPS at an unreasonable level - we have to consider the fact that missiles don't miss and have a long range). But yeah... assuming the DPS was balanced, I'd be totally fine with that.
I think that CCP is trying to KILL gankships, though... so you may have a better thing than you realize!
Agreed also but I doubt it will happen.
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2006.11.28 01:51:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
Originally by: Majin82 Yes the drake got the 7th launcher back... the thing is gonna become the worlds most powerful Guristas killer.
How about this for a deal:
We give you our 7th launcher from the Drake and we get a ROF bonus and a Velocity Bonus?
It doesn't work that way. Let me see if I can simplify it a bit for you.
Hurricane: It doesn't have a tank, it needs gank Drake: it has a tank, it doesn't get gank
The Hurricane has a pretty darn good tank. It needs less tank and more gank. The problem is that with autocannons you can have both very easily on a platform that is decent to good for artillery.
A lot of people claim that the Drake has an uber tank, but what kind of tank does it have with an MWD/WEB/SCRAM fitted on it? or a MWD/SCRAM/INJECTOR? Not as strong as people like to claim.
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Leandro Salazar
Aeon Industries Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2006.11.28 01:59:00 -
[52]
Yeah and what kind of tank does the Hurricane have with 3 damage mods fitted, which it needs to do the great gank? Both Myrmidon and Drake have a lot better tanking options than the Hurricane since they get tanking bonuses. I guess the Harbinger is equal. And taking away the 7th turret really didn't hurt the AC ship all that much but it is very bad for arty use (which of course is what I planned to put on it...) --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
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Gneeznow
Minmatar Boob Heads
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Posted - 2006.11.28 14:18:00 -
[53]
Give it back its 7'th turret or i'll shoot the bunny >_<
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