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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Agnar Koladrov
Gallente Hurricane Corporation
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Posted - 2006.11.29 13:05:00 -
[1]
Didn`t have the chance to test on sisi cause I was deactivated till today, but I read a lot about it and how the can seriously clog up a battlefield, whether it be pvp or pve. Just did some missions for the heck of it and yes they do clog up you screen, but thats nothin new. The only thing I never got is why they allowed both options on one wreck(loot andsalvage).
So I say, make wrecks lootable OR salvageble but not both. It is maybe not what was intended originally with them, but this would keep things tidy. Without the need to label/destroy a inspected wreck, which is very inefficient.
Discuss..... ________________________________________________
What a Revelation! |
Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2006.11.29 13:06:00 -
[2]
I think looted wrecks should change color.
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Agnar Koladrov
Gallente Hurricane Corporation
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Posted - 2006.11.29 13:20:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
I think looted wrecks should change color.
Good idea, would also solve problem and be less 'hardcore' then what I proposed ________________________________________________
What a Revelation! |
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Oveur
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Posted - 2006.11.29 13:24:00 -
[4]
We'll make it more visible if it has been looted but we're not removing the wrecks if it's been looted. We have some other improvements lined up for wrecks too.
Senior Producer EVE Online
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Helplessandlost
Minmatar Convergent Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.11.29 13:25:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
I think looted wrecks should change color.
Great idea, seriously...
I can see these wrecks being a real train wreck...
"Don't take life too seriously, nobody gets out alive!"
http://images.filecloud.com/283570/hal201.jpg
signature removed (max size 24000 bytes) - please email us (with the signature URL) if you want to know why - Pirlouit([email protected]) |
Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2006.11.29 13:25:00 -
[6]
See how simple it is sometimes Agnar? :)
Now, lets talk about the Maelstrom Oveur....
Ok, maybe not.
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Slevin Kalebra
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Posted - 2006.11.29 13:32:00 -
[7]
Having wrecks remain for after looting the modules makes sense... the 'whole' mods are stripped first, then the damaged ones are stripped of useful components. But tt would also make sense if you could choose to 'self' destruct a wreck once you had taken as much from it as you wanted. On the other hand, leaving wrecks in belts for scavengers to come along and pick over is kinda cool too... although it would be even better if there was a timer on the wreck that allowed anyone to loot it without getting flagged as a can thief.
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Miss Overlord
Gallente Ferrum Pugnus
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Posted - 2006.11.29 13:34:00 -
[8]
the visability angle should have been fixed but will hopefully be fixed with diff colour or a flag of some sort
These posts represent my personal views and not those of my corp or alliance. These do not reflect offical alliance or corp views
This is a disclaimer |
Rafein
Eye of God Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.29 13:34:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Oveur We'll make it more visible if it has been looted but we're not removing the wrecks if it's been looted. We have some other improvements lined up for wrecks too.
Please make it more like mining, and always work, just have skills be able to get you more salvage.
Just sucks to have to fail 10 times, then finally get salvaging to work, only to find there is nothing there. Granted, I'm only at salvagin 2 now, but I figure at salcaging 5, I'd still only have, at best, a 35% chance of salvage working.
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Dammar
Ephorate
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Posted - 2006.11.29 13:36:00 -
[10]
two things..
1. Make wrecks 'change' after looting. (covered above)
2. Make wrecks that have no loot to BEGIN with also different from wrecks that have loot.
TBH, i think #2 is more important because i can just blow up empty wrecks after looting, though if i want to salvage, then it becomes a problem.
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2006.11.29 13:38:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 29/11/2006 13:38:40
Originally by: Dammar
2. Make wrecks that have no loot to BEGIN with also different from wrecks that have loot.
Doesnt all wrecks have loot just like the cans did? Or maybe they dont, now that I think about it... wrecks are created even if a can would not be created.
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Torquemanda Corteaz
Gallente Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.11.29 13:40:00 -
[12]
wrecks are glorified cargo containers with a new facet added with salvaging
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Agnar Koladrov
Gallente Hurricane Corporation
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Posted - 2006.11.29 13:42:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Agnar Koladrov on 29/11/2006 13:45:25
Originally by: Jim McGregor
See how simple it is sometimes Agnar? :)
Yeah, better to keep it simpler sometimes
Now if they only fix the loot in the wrecks, I`d be 'more' happy about them.
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Doesnt all wrecks have loot just like the cans did? Or maybe they dont, now that I think about it... wrecks are created even if a can would not be created.
What I have seen now, in some lvl3`s that is, 2/3 of them maybe more does not contain any loot. ________________________________________________
What a Revelation! |
Jocca Quinn
Matari BackBone
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Posted - 2006.11.29 13:49:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Doesnt all wrecks have loot just like the cans did? Or maybe they dont, now that I think about it... wrecks are created even if a can would not be created.
True wrecks could be created even if there was no loot, but I'm getting a fair percentage (1 in 5 ish) of wrecks with no loot and no salvage .. so why is a wreck created ??
JQ
none of us are free as long as one of us is chained none of us are free |
Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2006.11.29 13:54:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 29/11/2006 13:55:29
Originally by: Jocca Quinn
True wrecks could be created even if there was no loot, but I'm getting a fair percentage (1 in 5 ish) of wrecks with no loot and no salvage .. so why is a wreck created ??
I guess that while a can was the contents of a ships cargo bay and modules, a wreck is what remains of the entire ship. Sometimes you will find stuff in the remains and sometimes not. But I would also prefer if wrecks werent created if they didnt contain anything.
It could also be that your skills are too low to find anything I guess. And I think there is a element of chance too? Im not up to speed with how it works yet myself.
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Queen Hades
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Posted - 2006.11.29 13:54:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Oveur We'll make it more visible if it has been looted but we're not removing the wrecks if it's been looted. We have some other improvements lined up for wrecks too.
Thank you sir, wholeheartedly. Thank you very much.
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VeNT
Minmatar Freelancer Union Unaffiliated
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Posted - 2006.11.29 14:00:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Oveur We'll make it more visible if it has been looted but we're not removing the wrecks if it's been looted. We have some other improvements lined up for wrecks too.
while you're in a good mood can we talk about that extra midslot for the 'phoon?
-------------------- Selena 001 > has VeNT left system? its gone really quiet! |
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Ginger.
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Posted - 2006.11.29 14:01:00 -
[18]
Personally I just like their being a huge battle and then you get a ton of wreckage left behind afterwards, if nothing else it looks alot more cool than cans :). I dont think it will be long before we see dedicated salvage crews skirting around. Also, people might have to hold the battlefield so they can send in their salvage teams?
Personally I love it, but then again I might be a little biased.
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Troy Knight
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Posted - 2006.11.29 14:04:00 -
[19]
I like the wrecks, makes the whole expereince that much more real. But I agree that making them look like they've been looted already is a good idea.
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DukeJoost1
The Last Solution Inc
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Posted - 2006.11.29 14:28:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Slevin Kalebra Having wrecks remain for after looting the modules makes sense... the 'whole' mods are stripped first, then the damaged ones are stripped of useful components. ....
So we tractor wreck to looting ship, open wreck (?), take loot manually, close wreck, switch off tractor. Then power up the Salvager I module, which opens wreck, tries to take salvageable items, tries to take salvageable items, tries to take salvageable items, tries to take salvageable items, takes salvageable items, closes and pops wreck.
So PLEASE give as a Looter I module, which opens wreck, takes loot, closes wreck, which replaces the manual process.
Or even better a combined Salvager Looter II module which opens wreck, takes loot, takes salvageable items, closes and pops wreck.
Fly safe.
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freakshow2
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Posted - 2006.11.29 14:31:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Oveur We'll make it more visible if it has been looted but we're not removing the wrecks if it's been looted. We have some other improvements lined up for wrecks too.
As well as making them visible would be good if we could have the option in our over-view to ôremove wreckage that has been lootedö so you would only see wreckage that contains loot. Just think of all the wrecks in cosmos plexÆs. Just a thought!
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Queen Hades
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Posted - 2006.11.29 14:43:00 -
[22]
Originally by: DukeJoost1
Originally by: Slevin Kalebra Having wrecks remain for after looting the modules makes sense... the 'whole' mods are stripped first, then the damaged ones are stripped of useful components. ....
So we tractor wreck to looting ship, open wreck (?), take loot manually, close wreck, switch off tractor. Then power up the Salvager I module, which opens wreck, tries to take salvageable items, tries to take salvageable items, tries to take salvageable items, tries to take salvageable items, takes salvageable items, closes and pops wreck.
So PLEASE give as a Looter I module, which opens wreck, takes loot, closes wreck, which replaces the manual process.
Or even better a combined Salvager Looter II module which opens wreck, takes loot, takes salvageable items, closes and pops wreck.
Fly safe.
Much less RSI. \o/
I love your idea.
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Jeanne D'Eve
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2006.11.29 14:44:00 -
[23]
I love Eve. I have loved the challenge of taking on the big missions. But with this patch, I have a battlefield filled with wrecks and I have no idea which ones I have checked for loot. I don't like the idea of completing the mission without collecting my full rewards and that is where I find myself now. I don't play a lot of hours on Eve, so my time is important and I don't want to spend it searching wrecks to find which ones have loot. I have no desire to learn salvaging. For me, the fun is in fighting and looting. And right now it isn't fun. If you can't come up with a way that I can differentiate "empty" wrecks from ones with loot, I will leave the game. I just received LOTR beta, so I have someplace to go.
Jeanne
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GalDipTra
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Posted - 2006.11.29 16:06:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Jeanne D'Eve I love Eve. I have loved the challenge of taking on the big missions. But with this patch, I have a battlefield filled with wrecks and I have no idea which ones I have checked for loot. I don't like the idea of completing the mission without collecting my full rewards and that is where I find myself now. I don't play a lot of hours on Eve, so my time is important and I don't want to spend it searching wrecks to find which ones have loot. I have no desire to learn salvaging. For me, the fun is in fighting and looting. And right now it isn't fun. If you can't come up with a way that I can differentiate "empty" wrecks from ones with loot, I will leave the game. I just received LOTR beta, so I have someplace to go.
Jeanne
I fully agree...I don't like this at all..in a few hours time the whole Belt has a huge number of wrecks, and they all color white (instead of yellow) in the overview,..then you shoot a rat..and can not find YOUR OWN wreck anymore..they all look the same...why is the yellow color not used any more for a wreck that is not yours !
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Becham
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Posted - 2006.11.29 16:20:00 -
[25]
How about classifying looted versus non-looted wrecks differently so looted wrecks can be removed from the overview?
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Oveur
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Posted - 2006.11.29 16:22:00 -
[26]
Just to elaborate on the changes we're looking at:
- Their icon changes (a triangle is filled when it's unlooted) - Wrecks bump away when you fly past them (they are already tractorable) - Decrease the pre-req which is a tad high atm (This will be in the Tuesday patch) - No criminal flag for salvaging (looting still flags you)
Senior Producer EVE Online
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Weirda
Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.29 16:25:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Jeanne D'Eve I love Eve. I have loved the challenge of taking on the big missions. But with this patch, I have a battlefield filled with wrecks and I have no idea which ones I have checked for loot. I don't like the idea of completing the mission without collecting my full rewards and that is where I find myself now. I don't play a lot of hours on Eve, so my time is important and I don't want to spend it searching wrecks to find which ones have loot. I have no desire to learn salvaging. For me, the fun is in fighting and looting. And right now it isn't fun. If you can't come up with a way that I can differentiate "empty" wrecks from ones with loot, I will leave the game. I just received LOTR beta, so I have someplace to go.
Jeanne
if you have no interest in salvaging them, you should pop each one you loot. will be very fast to pop. __ Weirda Join QotSA
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Kadonite
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Posted - 2006.11.29 16:32:00 -
[28]
Reducing the requirments sounds like a great Idea.
Mechanic V.. Survey V.. Mechanic is useful.. but if you've just started the game, you dont wanna face a week of grinding out a skill that isnt really that much use...
Even then.. you still have the problem that if people want to loot, they still have to sacrifice a Highslot. If they dont, they then have to dock, re-equip then go collect cans, that would increase mission duration alot. As many players have already witnessed.
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Sentar Manar
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.11.29 16:32:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Oveur Just to elaborate on the changes we're looking at:
- Their icon changes (a triangle is filled when it's unlooted) - Wrecks bump away when you fly past them (they are already tractorable) - Decrease the pre-req which is a tad high atm (This will be in the Tuesday patch) - No criminal flag for salvaging (looting still flags you)
That sounds great and will eliminate alot of the problems. However what about Empty wrecks? They will still be a big problem unless 1: Empty wrecks have a no loot marker or 2: The ship only drops a wreck if there is loot in it. Is anything in the works for that problem?
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Selena 001
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Posted - 2006.11.29 16:40:00 -
[30]
Is there a list anywhere that details what level you need to be to salvage from T2 ships? So far I've tried to salvage 3 of them and been totally ****ed because it just says "Your skill isn't high enough for you to salvage this wreck".
Little info here? ___________
NATIONAL SARCASM DAY!! |
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Eewec Ourbyni
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.29 16:44:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Eewec Ourbyni on 29/11/2006 16:44:05
Originally by: Kadonite Reducing the requirments sounds like a great Idea.
Mechanic V.. Survey V.. Mechanic is useful.. but if you've just started the game, you dont wanna face a week of grinding out a skill that isnt really that much use...
Even then.. you still have the problem that if people want to loot, they still have to sacrifice a Highslot. If they dont, they then have to dock, re-equip then go collect cans, that would increase mission duration alot. As many players have already witnessed.
Cool thing is I'd be training survey lvl 5 right now anyway in the normal course of things as I'm going for Archaeology which needs it (more precisely I'm going for using the Analyser I as I'm curious what these ancient ruins I keep getting actually have in them).
This is a sig...
-- You think this guys post is nuts.... you should see his bio --
... good, ain't it! |
Detavi Kade
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Posted - 2006.11.29 16:52:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Ginger. Also, people might have to hold the battlefield so they can send in their salvage teams?
This is what I'm looking forwards to.
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Caedicus
Minmatar Einherjar Rising Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.11.29 16:53:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Oveur Just to elaborate on the changes we're looking at:
- Their icon changes (a triangle is filled when it's unlooted) - Wrecks bump away when you fly past them (they are already tractorable) - Decrease the pre-req which is a tad high atm (This will be in the Tuesday patch) - No criminal flag for salvaging (looting still flags you)
Could you also make it so unlooted wrecks and looted wrecks can be seperately added/removed from the overview? For us OCD's who like the cleanest overview possible =)
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Jeanne D'Eve
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2006.11.29 16:53:00 -
[34]
if you have no interest in salvaging them, you should pop each one you loot. will be very fast to pop.
First, I don't want to waste cruise missiles on them. Light missiles take time. My drones won't attack them. But the big problem for me is the time it takes to check each wreck. And if it is a big mission, there are dozens to check. It's impossible to keep track of which ones have been checked. If you could remove each wreck from the overview after you've checked it, that would help. For me, I would like to know which ones have loot on them so I don't even bother looking in the others. I would like to spend my limited playing time running missions, not checking these empty wrecks.
Jeanne
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Di Jiensai
Gallente Myster0ns
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Posted - 2006.11.29 16:54:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Selena 001 Is there a list anywhere that details what level you need to be to salvage from T2 ships? So far I've tried to salvage 3 of them and been totally ****ed because it just says "Your skill isn't high enough for you to salvage this wreck".
Little info here?
Cant help, there, but you also cant salvage faction wrecks with Salvaging II, maybe i'll work with 3 --- The Story of the Big-Bad-Nos-Domi and the Brutix Selfproclaimed last instance on Rightousness Issues |
Cyrus Graham
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.29 16:57:00 -
[36]
simple solution: rename a wreck that has been looted to "Looted Wreck" or maybe "Plundered Wreck." rename the scavenged wrecks to "Scavenged Wreck" or perhaps "Stripped Wreck." ___________________________________
Go play checkers if you want a game where everything's fair and equal. |
o0Ethan0o
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Posted - 2006.11.29 16:58:00 -
[37]
The thing that I find most irritating about wrecks isnt that you cant tell if they have been looted already (I just pop them after opening), but that you have to check every single one to see if they contain loot or not. Some missions you may have 40-50 wrecks scattered round, its frankly boring to spend all your time checking empty wrecks.
Though I see that colouring the looted wrecks is an easy and sensible solution to part of the problem, it doesnt go far enough for me.
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Selena 001
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Posted - 2006.11.29 16:58:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Di Jiensai Cant help, there, but you also cant salvage faction wrecks with Salvaging II, maybe i'll work with 3
... 9 more hours and I'll be able to tell you ___________
NATIONAL SARCASM DAY!! |
o0Ethan0o
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Posted - 2006.11.29 16:58:00 -
[39]
Edited by: o0Ethan0o on 29/11/2006 17:01:26 Ooops, double post.
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Kristeena
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Posted - 2006.11.29 17:00:00 -
[40]
The solid and empty triangle would be a brilliant idea. Anything to save the hour i've just spent checking for decent loot on that last mission. Was seriously thinking of other options to EVE after rechecking wrecks i'm sure i'd already looted, please impliment this triangle change straight away.
Just out of interest Oveur, whats the pre-req for salvaging dropping to? or hasn't it been decided yet?
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Quality Print
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Posted - 2006.11.29 17:07:00 -
[41]
I would like to be able to destroy wrecks with my drones. That would let me tidy up the field of combat, remove wrecks which have been looted and deny other people the chance of salvaging them.
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OneSock
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Posted - 2006.11.29 17:07:00 -
[42]
Ok so I just did my first salvaging
OK so the basic process is:
loot wreck, lock it, salvage it until it gives you something, it then unlocks and vanishes off the overview although the wreck is still visible inspace.
As has already been mentioned there are some problems, knowing what has been looted, what contains loot etc. also many wreks only vanish when salvaged but this can often take many cycles so is a waste of time for smaller types. you still end up with a load of wrecks and no clue which has been salvaged and failed or not salvaged.
My suggestions:
1. ships drop a loot can and a wreck.
This way you can see the cans and collect them in the same way. can's are crim flagged as usual.
2. wrecks are not flagged and can be salvaged by anyone.
3. you only get one chance to salvage. One cycle, after which the wreck "pops" whether the salvage succeeds or not. at least this way you can move on to something else and the wreck does not continue to clutter the overview.
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Appalachia
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Posted - 2006.11.29 17:14:00 -
[43]
Also I think we 'fast looters' who use like 6 tractor beams to loot our cans fast, would like an option that the ship your in automaticly unlocks the wrecks when you just looted it. And indeed there should be an option for "remove looted wrecks from overview" too Thanks
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Zartmann
XUKRUT
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Posted - 2006.11.29 17:19:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Jeanne D'Eve
if you have no interest in salvaging them, you should pop each one you loot. will be very fast to pop.
First, I don't want to waste cruise missiles on them. Light missiles take time. My drones won't attack them. But the big problem for me is the time it takes to check each wreck. And if it is a big mission, there are dozens to check. It's impossible to keep track of which ones have been checked. If you could remove each wreck from the overview after you've checked it, that would help. For me, I would like to know which ones have loot on them so I don't even bother looking in the others. I would like to spend my limited playing time running missions, not checking these empty wrecks.
Jeanne
Signed !
Yes ! I'm a dedicated professional mission runner - that's what is fun for me in EVE Yes ! I'm a Carebear Pilot ! So What ? Yes ! Revelations totaly ruined my EVE experience (Can't loot no more it's a total mess) Yes ! I'm totaliy pis***d with this TIME CONSUMING way of working, I can make my normal ISK income because in Revelations my lvl 4 missions takes 5 times more to complete the way a think it's correct (collecting all my desearved loot !) Yes ! I'll quit EVE (several accounts) because it's absolutly NO FUN to spend my limited PLAY=FUN time searching and entangled with dozen stupids empty wrecks that I don't have skills or interest in salvage ! And, finaly NO - ABOSOLUTLY NOT - YOU CAN NOT HAVE MAY STUFF ! rable rable rable rable!!! Please CCP, Get a grip on this situation TODAY !!!!
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Hexman
Cryo Crypt inc. FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.29 17:24:00 -
[45]
Originally by: DukeJoost1
Originally by: Slevin Kalebra Having wrecks remain for after looting the modules makes sense... the 'whole' mods are stripped first, then the damaged ones are stripped of useful components. ....
So we tractor wreck to looting ship, open wreck (?), take loot manually, close wreck, switch off tractor. Then power up the Salvager I module, which opens wreck, tries to take salvageable items, tries to take salvageable items, tries to take salvageable items, tries to take salvageable items, takes salvageable items, closes and pops wreck.
So PLEASE give as a Looter I module, which opens wreck, takes loot, closes wreck, which replaces the manual process.
Or even better a combined Salvager Looter II module which opens wreck, takes loot, takes salvageable items, closes and pops wreck.
Fly safe.
How about looter drones?
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Elrich Zann
Minmatar Hidden Agenda
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Posted - 2006.11.29 17:24:00 -
[46]
I would like a quick method to visually tell looted from non-looted wrecks, but thank you for allowing us to name them. I think the wrecks add more realism to the battles, and I love them (now that I see them, I can't believe we were satisfied with cans). Two suggestions - make them bigger, I zoomed in on a few and they are tiny. Also could you give us some hint on what the higher levels of salvage will open (in the skill description perhaps or the wreck itself?), I already ran across a wreck I could not salvage.
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Graduran Anguirill
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Posted - 2006.11.29 17:26:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Oveur Just to elaborate on the changes we're looking at:
- Their icon changes (a triangle is filled when it's unlooted) - Wrecks bump away when you fly past them (they are already tractorable) - Decrease the pre-req which is a tad high atm (This will be in the Tuesday patch) - No criminal flag for salvaging (looting still flags you)
lovely lovely lovely , thank you for that clarification.
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Zartmann
XUKRUT
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Posted - 2006.11.29 17:28:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Jeanne D'Eve
if you have no interest in salvaging them, you should pop each one you loot. will be very fast to pop.
First, I don't want to waste cruise missiles on them. Light missiles take time. My drones won't attack them. But the big problem for me is the time it takes to check each wreck. And if it is a big mission, there are dozens to check. It's impossible to keep track of which ones have been checked. If you could remove each wreck from the overview after you've checked it, that would help. For me, I would like to know which ones have loot on them so I don't even bother looking in the others. I would like to spend my limited playing time running missions, not checking these empty wrecks.
Jeanne
Signed !
Yes ! I'm a dedicated professional mission runner - that's what is fun for me in EVE Yes ! I'm a Carebear Pilot ! So What ? Yes ! Revelations totaly ruined my EVE experience (Can't loot no more it's a total mess) Yes ! I'm totaliy pis***d with this TIME CONSUMING way of working, I can make my normal ISK income because in Revelations my lvl 4 missions takes 5 times more to complete the way a think it's correct (collecting all my desearved loot !) Yes ! I'll quit EVE (several accounts) because it's absolutly NO FUN to spend my limited PLAY=FUN time searching and entangled with dozen stupids empty wrecks that I don't have skills or interest in salvage ! And, finaly NO - ABOSOLUTLY NOT - YOU CAN NOT HAVE MAY STUFF ! rable rable rable rable!!! Please CCP, Get a grip on this situation TODAY !!!!
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Riho
Red Wrath Exquisite Malevolance
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Posted - 2006.11.29 17:29:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Oveur Just to elaborate on the changes we're looking at:
- Their icon changes (a triangle is filled when it's unlooted) - Wrecks bump away when you fly past them (they are already tractorable) - Decrease the pre-req which is a tad high atm (This will be in the Tuesday patch) - No criminal flag for salvaging (looting still flags you)
nice :D
and if we can turn off the looted wrecks it will rock even more :D
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Zartmann
XUKRUT
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Posted - 2006.11.29 17:29:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Jeanne D'Eve
if you have no interest in salvaging them, you should pop each one you loot. will be very fast to pop.
First, I don't want to waste cruise missiles on them. Light missiles take time. My drones won't attack them. But the big problem for me is the time it takes to check each wreck. And if it is a big mission, there are dozens to check. It's impossible to keep track of which ones have been checked. If you could remove each wreck from the overview after you've checked it, that would help. For me, I would like to know which ones have loot on them so I don't even bother looking in the others. I would like to spend my limited playing time running missions, not checking these empty wrecks.
Jeanne
Signed !
Yes ! I'm a dedicated professional mission runner - that's what is fun for me in EVE Yes ! I'm a Carebear Pilot ! So What ? Yes ! Revelations totaly ruined my EVE experience (Can't loot no more it's a total mess) Yes ! I'm totaliy pis***d with this TIME CONSUMING way of working, I can make my normal ISK income because in Revelations my lvl 4 missions takes 5 times more to complete the way a think it's correct (collecting all my desearved loot !) Yes ! I'll quit EVE (several accounts) because it's absolutly NO FUN to spend my limited PLAY=FUN time searching and entangled with dozen stupids empty wrecks that I don't have skills or interest in salvage ! And, finaly NO - ABOSOLUTLY NOT - YOU CAN NOT HAVE MAY STUFF ! rable rable rable rable!!! Please CCP, Get a grip on this situation TODAY !!!!
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Supay
Caldari ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.29 17:29:00 -
[51]
You can't rename wrecks. Here is my solution.
Open overview settings and go to the columns tab. Select "Tags" Then when you loot a wreck, just right click on it and apply a tag. I use a 0. Unlock and carry on checking other wrecks, tagging them as you finish.
if you find a wreck that has stuff you particularly want, you can tag with another number of letter and come back with a hauler to pick it all up.
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Leandro Salazar
Aeon Industries Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2006.11.29 17:29:00 -
[52]
Would be nice if looted wrecks would be their own independantly selectable overview item. That way we could select them not to display while unlooted wrecks show up, esentially removing looted wrecks from overview just like looted cans go now. --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
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Kai'lya
Phantom Regiment
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Posted - 2006.11.29 17:34:00 -
[53]
I like the idea of a big field awaiting salvage in the wake of a large-scale pvp battle, but in the context of a fast respawning complex such as the COSMOS kazka contested HQ in Sakkikainen, this can quickly degrade into a disastrous mess. Even BEFORE this salvage business was added, the respawn rate in there was so fast that I was blowing up frigs faster than I could loot them. I could quickly end up with hundreds of loot cans laying around. With the added time of handling wrecks... this gets very messy very fast. What's even worse is, upon salvaging many of these, you simply get a message saying there was nothing worth salvaging and you just wasted the last three minutes with your inefficient salvager for nothing.
In the past not every rat always dropped a can, maybe have some of these spawns totally obliterated so no wreckage is left? This eliminates salvaging empty wrecks. The way I see it, if there is a wreck, you should be able to salvage SOMETHING. We've never had empty loot cans before. It either dropped one with something in it, or didn't drop one at all. Also, factoring in the size of the wreck into the salvage time would definitely make life easier. Frig or drone wrecks are comparatively small and it would make sense that they be quicker to salvage as compared to a larger BS sized wreck.
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OneSock
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Posted - 2006.11.29 17:37:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Elrich Zann I already ran across a wreck I could not salvage.
This is a real pain. I have also tried to salvage a low level rat ship for many cycles and nothing. I mean really, I know salvage is chance based but 10 cycles and nothing ? If your looking at 20 wrecks that can add up to a lot of lost time. Who is going to bother ?
Certainly nobody in a pvp ship or mission BS is going to waste two highs for a tractor and a salvager. And even those of us with loot ships don't want to have to either live with not knowing what wreck has had a salvage attempt and which has not, or mounting a weapon to pop useless wrecks.
Seriously, I think you should get one salvage cycle per wreck. If you get anything great. If you don't the wreck "pops" and you move on.
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Jane Vladmir
Gallente Warmongers
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Posted - 2006.11.29 18:09:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Jane Vladmir on 29/11/2006 18:09:18
Originally by: Zartmann Yes ! I'm a dedicated professional mission runner - that's what is fun for me in EVE Yes ! I'm a Carebear Pilot ! So What ? Yes ! Revelations totaly ruined my EVE experience (Can't loot no more it's a total mess) Yes ! I'm totaliy pis***d with this TIME CONSUMING way of working, I can make my normal ISK income because in Revelations my lvl 4 missions takes 5 times more to complete the way a think it's correct (collecting all my desearved loot !) Yes ! I'll quit EVE (several accounts) because it's absolutly NO FUN to spend my limited PLAY=FUN time searching and entangled with dozen stupids empty wrecks that I don't have skills or interest in salvage ! And, finaly NO - ABOSOLUTLY NOT - YOU CAN NOT HAVE MAY STUFF ! rable rable rable rable!!! Please CCP, Get a grip on this situation TODAY !!!!
gtfo
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Aravorn
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Posted - 2006.11.29 18:23:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Jeanne D'Eve I just received LOTR beta, so I have someplace to go. Jeanne
Ha Ha If you love EVE you will last about a week in LOTRO Beta.
BTW didn't you just violate the NDA?
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Monty Tomasi
Phoenix Wing
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Posted - 2006.11.29 18:24:00 -
[57]
Can we please have salvage drones?
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Anatolius
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2006.11.29 18:33:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Oveur
- Decrease the pre-req which is a tad high atm (This will be in the Tuesday patch)
Come on, I'll have Survey trained to V by then!
"If God be for us, whom can be against us?" |
Thor Xian
Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation
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Posted - 2006.11.29 18:37:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Jocca Quinn
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Doesnt all wrecks have loot just like the cans did? Or maybe they dont, now that I think about it... wrecks are created even if a can would not be created.
True wrecks could be created even if there was no loot, but I'm getting a fair percentage (1 in 5 ish) of wrecks with no loot and no salvage .. so why is a wreck created ??
JQ
Continuity
~Thor Xian, Material Defender
"Victory is the weakness of the enemy."
Corp/Alliance Services |
FeralShadow
M. Corp Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.29 18:40:00 -
[60]
Edited by: FeralShadow on 29/11/2006 18:40:30 well here's a few easy ways to keep track of the wrecks that are yours:
1. after you pop a rat, immediately fly over to the wreck that appeared. That way after each pop, you will know which wreck is yours to loot. Just watch the rat get popped in space, click on the wreck, and click approach.
2. If doing #1 isn't possible, after popping a wreck, simply rename it. Then, after all rats are popped, you know which wrecks are yours by a simple refresh of the overview.
These options really take maybe 5 seconds of time, especially if you rename your wrecks, and using that method, you dont have to stop attacking the enemies, nor do you have to sort through all the numerous wrecks in space. _______________________________________________
"If you want to taste the ground, feel free to attack." - Kenshin Himura
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SolarWindWalker
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Posted - 2006.11.29 19:04:00 -
[61]
Gee silver spoons and platters. A battle field full of useless splatters. Oh My, Oh My, where has all my loot gone? To some pendantic scavanger slug That took the time to do what I should have done. My oh My what is EVE coming to ? I want it Wham bam thank You mam!
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Rubelicon
Caldari Dominus Nihil EVE
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Posted - 2006.11.29 19:09:00 -
[62]
As of last night you could not rename. When chosing the rename option it would tell you that you cannot rename this object. I have read that if your in a gang you can tag it but if not there is nothing you can do.
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Treelox
Amarr Solar Storm Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.29 19:21:00 -
[63]
i miss the way the "can" window would close after I looted from it. I would be very much in favor of cans for loot and wrecks for salavaging. --
Signature edited - this is your last warning - Jacques |
Kichae Chandramani
Quasar Consortium
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Posted - 2006.11.29 19:43:00 -
[64]
So far, I like the wrecks. They're interesting, and they add another dimension to my game. However, I've not had the time to run any missions yet, or the joy of flying into a field of the things. With that in mind, both by myself looking forward, and to anyone reading:
1. I'm already in love with the suggestion to make looted wrecks a separate overview item. The change in icon should predicate this -- if it looks different, it should be different. This has advantages for both groups involved in wreck manipulation: Those people who are creating the wrecks no longer have to worry about the ones they've looted; those people who are removing the wrecks no longer have to worry about the ones which haven't been looted. The different icons is a good start to this, but let's face it: Most of us navigate via the overview, and we want as little clutter on it as possible. If given the magical ability to remotely determine if there's loot via one part of the HUD, then the other should be just as competent.
2. I saw that wrecks are no longer going to be perma-anchored. It'd be nice if impacting a wreck should have a noticeable, but not overwhelming, impact on the ship's momentum. Bumping into a wreck should throw you off course some, but not send you flying off at 90 or 180 degrees. Is this the case? Or is bumping a wreck going to stop us in our tracks? Because warping out of a scrap yard should be harder, but not impossible, and flying straight through them shouldn't be like trying to find the Minotaur. In other words, a field of wrecks should (in my mind -- a place which often doesn't reflect reality) be a bumpy road, not a prison cell.
These two things when combined, I feel, would make the introduction of salvaging as a new mini-profession much more seamless. First and foremost, it pretty much spells out to people complaining that it's more difficult for them to reap the bounty of their labours (i.e. combat pilots and mission runners) that wrecks aren't a free buff to their pocket books. Extra effort is to be expended to receive extra loot, as noted by the fact that looted wrecks no longer appear in their overview.
Secondly, it severely reduces the impact on those people who create the wrecks. Lowering this impact reduces or removes the feeling of entitlement, since creating wrecks doesn't impede their ability to create new ones. If you destroy 20 ships, and have to take extra time to figure out what you've looted, and then how to get around the empty rotting husks once you're done, you income-per-time shoots down. You are doing extra work for no reward then, and have backdoor-nerfed combat missions.
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Manus Ghostface
Caldari Quantum Industries Prime Orbital Systems
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Posted - 2006.11.29 19:43:00 -
[65]
Easy way to make it visually noticeable which wreck has been looted.
Flames or heat spots on the wrecks that go out when they are looted.
Hot wreck, check, cold wreck ignore.
That city is well fortified which has a wall of men instead of brick. - Lycurgus |
Cadman Weyland
Eternity INC.
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Posted - 2006.11.29 19:56:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Zartmann
Yes ! I'm a dedicated professional mission runner - that's what is fun for me in EVE Yes ! I'm a Carebear Pilot ! So What ? Yes ! Revelations totaly ruined my EVE experience (Can't loot no more it's a total mess) Yes ! I'm totaliy pis***d with this TIME CONSUMING way of working, I can make my normal ISK income because in Revelations my lvl 4 missions takes 5 times more to complete the way a think it's correct (collecting all my desearved loot !) Yes ! I'll quit EVE (several accounts) because it's absolutly NO FUN to spend my limited PLAY=FUN time searching and entangled with dozen stupids empty wrecks that I don't have skills or interest in salvage ! And, finaly NO - ABOSOLUTLY NOT - YOU CAN NOT HAVE MAY STUFF ! rable rable rable rable!!! Please CCP, Get a grip on this situation TODAY !!!!
omg thats so sad
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Agnar Koladrov
Gallente Hurricane Corporation
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Posted - 2006.11.29 19:56:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Oveur We'll make it more visible if it has been looted but we're not removing the wrecks if it's been looted. We have some other improvements lined up for wrecks too.
That sound really nice.
Got a question about it though, will all the wrecks be assigned 'unlooted' before you have opened them, even if wreck contains no loot? Or will only wreck 'with' loot be assigned some color code, and empty wreck be left blank?? ________________________________________________
What a Revelation! |
Sheha
Amarr Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2006.11.29 20:14:00 -
[68]
Okay - so a blown up ship casually deploying a pristine can of loot was slightly preposterous - but at least it was simple and it worked and the cans neatly popped into nothing when you'd grabbed your booty.
NOW - We have wrecks. Okay, they're more realistic... BUT!!!
Please tell me just how you are to identify WHICH wreck you've looted? Yes there's a RANT coming...
I just did part one of an L3 mission and was surrounded by 20plus wrecks... so I start checking for loot. Grab the odd mod here and there and then ended up totally baffled as to which Wreck still had stuff in and which didn't. The ONLY solution to this is to shoot every wrecks while they're still right by your ship - otherwise you have no way of knowing which you have been to already.
The Wrecks should at LEAST be TAGGABLE - or Change COLOUR when looted. At the moment you cannot even 'set name' to identify which you have looked at.
The Wrecks are there for credibility (as opposed to cans), for Invention (?) materials and for Salvage... BUT again... What about people who don't want to train Salvage? It's not compulsory. What if some folks are happy just to loot the mods and take mission rewards and move on? Not everyone will want to use a Rig slot and/or a High Slot for Salvage equipment on their Uber-Fitted Mission Ships but even if they don't they will still be surrounded by 20-30 wrecks with no way of identifying which they've looted.
IMHO Wrecks have not been thought out properly and cannot have been play tested or a solution to this problem would have been released as part of their deployment in Revelations. It looks like to test Wreck, the devs/alpha testers gave themselves the skills, fitted Salvage mods and salvaged every wreck... if they tested this feature in its entirety at all. Of course THAT would work fine because the IDEAL is being tested... not the REALITY. Certainly No-one has considered the interim (REAL) period between deploying Wrecks and people having trained the skills to Salvage them (thus removing them from the deadspace/system and resolving the problem).
I am amazed that this didn't appear as an issue on SISI already, but Wrecks seem also to have exposed a flaw in the SISI method of testing deployments... Simply put - everyone who tests on SISI grabs the best rigs/mods for the job they want to test... so problems like tagging wrecks simply do not surface until deployed on TQ because players have salvaged a couple and seen it work okay or they have looted a few and left the area. Either way... the problem of tagging a wreck wouldn't surface.
That in itself suggests that the testing is largely being left to SISI players alone and that new content isn't being dev-tested in all possible permutations, including 'idiot-proofing', before SISI deployment. And THAT really isn't the way it should be.
I love new content. Revelations appears to be a real rocker... but as with most things Human there's been a daft oversight that kicks it right in the n*ts - again My Own Humble Opinion... but hell!
Okay RANT over... but I hope I've made a clear point. I hope Wrecks are not a symptom of new and uncharacteristic haste from CCP. And I hope someone goes back over what should have been done already and fixes some kind of tagging mechanism for what ought to have been a flawless knock-em-dead feature.
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Noveron
Caldari Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.29 20:20:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Ginger. Personally I just like their being a huge battle and then you get a ton of wreckage left behind afterwards, if nothing else it looks alot more cool than cans :). I dont think it will be long before we see dedicated salvage crews skirting around. Also, people might have to hold the battlefield so they can send in their salvage teams?
Personally I love it, but then again I might be a little biased.
The idea is great, but dont be discouraged, just dont forget people like to complain about everything :)
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hitech redneck
Digital Mind Crimes
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Posted - 2006.11.29 20:23:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Oveur We'll make it more visible if it has been looted but we're not removing the wrecks if it's been looted. We have some other improvements lined up for wrecks too.
I sure hope the change is withinh a day or 2 not months. Its too hard to tell what has been looted and or not. Also you can not change the names on them like you could the old cans. I was going to name them looted.
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Kichae Chandramani
Quasar Consortium
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Posted - 2006.11.29 20:26:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Sheha Please tell me just how you are to identify WHICH wreck you've looted?
Apparently coming.
Quote: I just did part one of an L3 mission and was surrounded by 20plus wrecks... so I start checking for loot. Grab the odd mod here and there and then ended up totally baffled as to which Wreck still had stuff in and which didn't. The ONLY solution to this is to shoot every wrecks while they're still right by your ship - otherwise you have no way of knowing which you have been to already.
Or you could bring along a dedicated salvager. I brought this up in another thread: A dedicated salvager would mean you don't have to worry about the wrecks at all. Work out a deal with someone, and let them worry about drops.
Quote: What if some folks are happy just to loot the mods and take mission rewards and move on?
With a changing icon coming, this should be possible in the near future.
Quote: Not everyone will want to use a Rig slot and/or a High Slot for Salvage equipment on their Uber-Fitted Mission Ships but even if they don't they will still be surrounded by 20-30 wrecks with no way of identifying which they've looted.
Hire/befriend a looter. Pay them for their services, or let them keep the salvage while they give you the loot.
Quote: IMHO Wrecks have not been thought out properly and cannot have been play tested or a solution to this problem would have been released as part of their deployment in Revelations.
I'm of the opinion that people with this opinion haven't thought out their opinion. Wrecks aren't there to buff mission payouts, just as I've argued above they shouldn't nerf them. The easy and obvious solution is to hire a salvage team. That's what the wrecks are there for: To introduce salvage teams to the game.
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Amira Silvermist
Yazata Spenta Aegis Militia
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Posted - 2006.11.29 20:47:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Anatolius
Originally by: Oveur
- Decrease the pre-req which is a tad high atm (This will be in the Tuesday patch)
Come on, I'll have Survey trained to V by then!
Yes, its not nice to kick people in the bean bag because they were willing to invest skill training time for salvaging. If the prerequisites would would at least give a bonus or something...
Amarr racial trait: Nerfbat damage resistance 0% |
Kylania
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.29 20:49:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Amira Silvermist
Originally by: Anatolius
Originally by: Oveur
- Decrease the pre-req which is a tad high atm (This will be in the Tuesday patch)
Come on, I'll have Survey trained to V by then!
Yes, its not nice to kick people in the bean bag because they were willing to invest skill training time for salvaging. If the prerequisites would would at least give a bonus or something...
Yup, only had 2 days left for Survey V, guess I'll switch to some other skills for now. -- Lil Miner Newbie Skills Roadmap | CCG Card Lookup |
lpha centurion
Confrerie des ombres
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Posted - 2006.11.29 20:50:00 -
[74]
Removing wrecks is not the solution. I think that you should be able to see if there are mods or not in these wrecks.
For example, the wreck icon is yellow when there are items in it or it stays white when it is empty.
What do you think of this ?
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Vaedon
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Posted - 2006.11.29 20:59:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Hexman How about looter drones?
Oh hell yes. Please please please.
And while you're at it, devise some salvager drones too.
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2006.11.29 21:00:00 -
[76]
People in my npc corp are also asking why wrecks have more hp than the ships they came from.... its a good question. --- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Arondos
Minmatar Old Timers Guild
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Posted - 2006.11.29 21:06:00 -
[77]
Oh and can I please be able to attack wrecks with my drones? I'd like to be able to get the ones I have looted off my screen without having to waste ammo. If I can blwo them up with guns why can't my drones guns blow them up?
Life isn't fair and neither is Eve. Get over it. |
Forge Pricechecker
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Posted - 2006.11.29 21:29:00 -
[78]
With 1 high slot for a tractor beam, and 1 for salvage, I'm loving this new system.
A second account in an exeq with 2 tractors and 2 salvage mods wouldn't suck, but using 2 slots on your main mission running setup works pretty well.
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Amira Silvermist
Yazata Spenta Aegis Militia
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Posted - 2006.11.29 21:37:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
People in my npc corp are also asking why wrecks have more hp than the ships they came from.... its a good question.
Thats an easy one: How much effort is needed to break a car so its no longer functional and how much effort is needed to actually pulverise it.
Amarr racial trait: Nerfbat damage resistance 0% |
Ra Tzu
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Posted - 2006.11.29 21:37:00 -
[80]
I have a specific question related to how it currently works.
I keep hearing to 'just shoot the can..er wreck', because we can't drone it!
I tried to shoot wrecks with heavy missiles and it didn't do anything.
So if I'm a missile/drone missioner, am I SOL untill a better system is implemented?
(I do like the tag suggestion)
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Peter McGregor
Digital Fury Corporation
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Posted - 2006.11.29 21:45:00 -
[81]
Can someone please tell me if EVERY destroyed ship leaves a wreck? If so, I don't like it. After all, the power plant of a ship must have some pretty potent stuff in it. Add all other factors like ammo and fuel onboard and you get a really big bang... Sometimes ships should simply get vaporised, no wreck, no lootcan, just some dust ;)
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Argus Greymoore
Gallente Tides of Silence
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Posted - 2006.11.29 21:50:00 -
[82]
Edited by: Argus Greymoore on 29/11/2006 21:51:12
Originally by: FeralShadow Edited by: FeralShadow on 29/11/2006 18:40:30 well here's a few easy ways to keep track of the wrecks that are yours:
(snip)
2. If doing #1 isn't possible, after popping a wreck, simply rename it. Then, after all rats are popped, you know which wrecks are yours by a simple refresh of the overview.
Wrecks can't be renamed at this time.
Originally by: Ra Tzu I have a specific question related to how it currently works.
I keep hearing to 'just shoot the can..er wreck', because we can't drone it!I tried to shoot wrecks with heavy missiles and it didn't do anything.So if I'm a missile/drone missioner, am I SOL untill a better system is implemented?(I do like the tag suggestion)
I was destroying them left and right with my T1 blasters last night. Only took a couple of shots.
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Lady Trade
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Posted - 2006.11.29 22:06:00 -
[83]
Could you please implement that the "can" window closes after you lootet from it? Would realy LOVE this!
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d026
Herrscher der Zeit
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Posted - 2006.11.29 22:10:00 -
[84]
Quote: Got a question about it though, will all the wrecks be assigned 'unlooted' before you have opened them, even if wreck contains no loot? Or will only wreck 'with' loot be assigned some color code, and empty wreck be left blank??lly nice.
i'd be interested in this aswell. I think the most simple solution would just be to dropp loot in cans as always not having anything to do with the wrecks. For me this whole salvaging crap is just a huge anoyance -.-
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JazmanKills
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Posted - 2006.11.29 22:12:00 -
[85]
Edited by: JazmanKills on 29/11/2006 22:13:26
Originally by: Oveur Just to elaborate on the changes we're looking at:
- Their icon changes (a triangle is filled when it's unlooted) - Wrecks bump away when you fly past them (they are already tractorable) - Decrease the pre-req which is a tad high atm (This will be in the Tuesday patch) - No criminal flag for salvaging (looting still flags you)
Great, freaking great. Most of us that were interested in Salvaging said, OK, that's the pre-reqs and went about training Survey 5. So the few days I've been training Survey, just for this skill are now out the freaking window. Thanks again guys.
And as we continue to pay to beta test your software...
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Ithildin
Gallente The Corporation The Corporation Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.29 22:17:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Oveur We'll make it more visible if it has been looted but we're not removing the wrecks if it's been looted. We have some other improvements lined up for wrecks too.
Scrapheap ChallengeÖ?
You've already added rigs, I mean. - EVE is sick. |
Madcat Adams
Mission Runners Anonymous Incorporated
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Posted - 2006.11.29 22:29:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Oveur Just to elaborate on the changes we're looking at:
- Their icon changes (a triangle is filled when it's unlooted) - Wrecks bump away when you fly past them (they are already tractorable) - Decrease the pre-req which is a tad high atm (This will be in the Tuesday patch) - No criminal flag for salvaging (looting still flags you)
Sounds very good, what will the new skill requirements be? Will have Survey 5 by Tuesday, and if it's pointless, I'd rather just stop at 3 where I'm at now to focus on rig skills, then get back to finishing Medium energy 5. Shiny new turrets II's for a shiny new Harbinger.
It's great being Amarr, ain't it?
Aimez- "oh ****, this is empire......."
Thanks for the loot, and next time you go out to pirate, carry more tech 2 plz =) |
Sokudo
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.29 22:34:00 -
[88]
Changing the skill requirements?
So the time I spent training Survey 5 on two characters is to be wasted? Could we have Survey have some benefit then for those of us who took the time to train up ahead of the release?
As for the rest and for the patch in general... great job guys (although any chance you can possibly patch pre-weekend since my cov-ops is kinda useless until I can get a recon launcher on it)?
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Phoenix Lonestar
Litanies of Hate
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Posted - 2006.11.29 22:41:00 -
[89]
Edited by: Phoenix Lonestar on 29/11/2006 22:43:44 Looter drones would be spectacular. But so would skill queuing... both will never happen.
I liked having cans drop if there was loot, and having the enemy ship just pop if there wasn't. Having useless space junk out there is pretty, but the funtionality is crap. Maybe find a way of a wreck showing up after something is destroyed if it is salvageable, a loot can if it's just loot, and nothing if there is nothing. Not the best idea, but it keeps most of us happy, me thinks.
As an alternative... maybe scrap salvaging until it gets thought all the way through. Wrecks take the place of loot cans for the time being. I know that would **** people off.. but not so many. And the skills would still come into play later.
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Ezra
Gallente Calista Industries
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Posted - 2006.11.29 22:59:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Oveur We'll make it more visible if it has been looted but we're not removing the wrecks if it's been looted. We have some other improvements lined up for wrecks too.
Please make sure that this visibility includes the ability to identify it as looted on the overview.
Also, even better, make them seperate categories so that looted wrecks will disappear from overview with the appropriate settings. ------------ Ezra Cornell pe0n, Calista Industries |
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Nervar
Exotic Dancers Club
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Posted - 2006.11.29 23:15:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Oveur Just to elaborate on the changes we're looking at:
- Decrease the pre-req which is a tad high atm (This will be in the Tuesday patch)
the pre-req is perfect as it is. why make everything as easy to get as possible in this game Recruitment post
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Mister Poopypants
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Posted - 2006.11.29 23:50:00 -
[92]
My question would be this: If I run a lvl 4 mission that drops maybe 30 cans, would I get enough from salvaging the wrecks to justify the time invested, or would I be better off simply looting (I have a dedicated hauler character) and then completing the mission in order to quickly move on to the next?
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Letouk Mernel
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Posted - 2006.11.29 23:55:00 -
[93]
If wrecks drop as much as people indicate, salvaging might have to be an AoE operation, rather than one wreck at a time. Implement strip salvaging or something... drones, something to let you take in the whole field of dead ships and, well, harvest it.
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Blind Man
Caldari Kemono.
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Posted - 2006.11.30 00:02:00 -
[94]
dont chance the pre reqs. what a waste of 5 days Sig removed.\o/ It's great flying Amarr, ain't it? |
Sheha
Amarr Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2006.11.30 00:06:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Sokudo Changing the skill requirements?
So the time I spent training Survey 5 on two characters is to be wasted?
You need Survey for Jury Rigging. It's not wasted.
The skill that IS as yet Wasted (mostly) is Scrapmetal Processing which Should (imo) play a part in Salvage... only logical really.
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Uggster
Caldari Never'where
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Posted - 2006.11.30 00:07:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
I think looted wrecks should change color.
Exactly what I was thinking today.
Signed, if theres any of that going. _______________________________________________
Sig removed as inappropriate- Tirg
Story of my life that one :(
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Sheha
Amarr Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2006.11.30 00:19:00 -
[97]
In reply to Kichae - I don't reckon Slavage Teams are neccessary. It is possible to salvage your own wrecks, but only at the expense of some other asset.
TBH I really DO think that Wrecks were not properly (either) thought out (or) tested for the reasons I mentioned. More an observation than an opinion. Testing properly would have made obvious the need for tagging/identifying which wrecks you had cleared of loot. No Way On Earth could you fly around a mission's worth of Wrecks without coming to the conclusion that this was needed... therefor the testing was not done. It's another argument entirely but if you leave testing to us, the players, for features like this then you won't get the results needed, ie playable features. These things need 'idiot testing' so that the the stuff players would avoid doing on SISI do not get missed. ie - wreck tagging. Testing wreck tagging only works if you have to gather the loot as per IG... if you don't, as per SISI where you can just go to station and get everything for 100isk, then the testing is merely of the existence of the wrecks and not their actual role in game. This is why I say that this aspect of gameplay was shoddily attended to by the devs who ought to have ensure that this was Fully Playable rather than just mechanically operable. Anyways - CCP being CCP it wil be fixed real soon and they can all go back to the pub. Beer or two on me Chaps and Chapesses, should we ever meet, for about the most painless patch in Eve history. Wouldn't be an Eve patch without a teeny blooper here or there...(Exodus Veteran alt btw.) Well done ppl.
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JazmanKills
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Posted - 2006.11.30 00:30:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Sheha
Originally by: Sokudo Changing the skill requirements?
So the time I spent training Survey 5 on two characters is to be wasted?
You need Survey for Jury Rigging. It's not wasted.
The skill that IS as yet Wasted (mostly) is Scrapmetal Processing which Should (imo) play a part in Salvage... only logical really.
Wrong. You do not need Survey 5 for Jury Rigging, so yes it would be wasted...
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Grey Area
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.30 00:38:00 -
[99]
Edited by: Grey Area on 30/11/2006 00:40:38
Originally by: Mister ****ypants My question would be this: If I run a lvl 4 mission that drops maybe 30 cans, would I get enough from salvaging the wrecks to justify the time invested, or would I be better off simply looting (I have a dedicated hauler character) and then completing the mission in order to quickly move on to the next?
Hard to tell right now...what I can tell you is what I've done...
Level 4 Vengeance (Guristas)...took 3 and a half hours to loot and salvage fully Level 4 Worlds Collide (Guristas/Serpentis)...took 3 and a half hours to loot and salvage fully.
If you want to see what I salvaged, go here, but I have no idea what it is worth as yet. ---
I don't mind you disagreeing with me. Just don't say I don't have the SKILLS to comment until you've looked at them. |
THX 1138
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2006.11.30 02:07:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Mister ****ypants My question would be this: If I run a lvl 4 mission that drops maybe 30 cans, would I get enough from salvaging the wrecks to justify the time invested, or would I be better off simply looting (I have a dedicated hauler character) and then completing the mission in order to quickly move on to the next?
I just wasted 2 hours trying to salvage gear from a lvl 4 mission (Mordus Mercenaries). So there are about 60 or 70 wrecks over the mission area after I finish, I loot all the wrecks using my usual indy with tractors and group about 40 of the wrecks together. within 5km of each other.
Now, I fit a Raven with 5*Salvager mods and fly back to my nicely clustered wrecks. Spent an hour 'salvaging' the wrecks and apart from the many 'your salvaging was unsuccesful this time'; I got 40 'Your salvaging was successful, but unfortantely there was nothing to salvage' messages.
That's right, I walked away with nothing. Am I doing something wrong? -*-*-*-*-
Individuality is underrated |
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Snarls McGee
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Posted - 2006.11.30 03:11:00 -
[101]
My biggest problem with the wrecks is that Mission Items (Marines, Mercenary Pilot, etc) are in the wreck. I spent more time looking through wrecks trying to find my Mission Objective as I did blowing them up.
Please CCP let loot drop in cans for the looters and leave wrecks in for the salvagers.
I really like the concept but I really dislike the execution.. :(
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Hotice
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Posted - 2006.11.30 04:12:00 -
[102]
Edited by: Hotice on 30/11/2006 04:12:47 Simple solution: Unlooted wreck that have loot inside appears in green color icon.
Looted wreck and those that doesn't have loot in them appears in white color icon.
Give player an option to destroy wreck once it has been opened by the owner.
Problem solved!
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mafesto
Minmatar Luna Tech Manufacturing Industries
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Posted - 2006.11.30 04:22:00 -
[103]
Originally by: GalDipTra
Originally by: Jeanne D'Eve I love Eve. I have loved the challenge of taking on the big missions. But with this patch, I have a battlefield filled with wrecks and I have no idea which ones I have checked for loot. I don't like the idea of completing the mission without collecting my full rewards and that is where I find myself now. I don't play a lot of hours on Eve, so my time is important and I don't want to spend it searching wrecks to find which ones have loot. I have no desire to learn salvaging. For me, the fun is in fighting and looting. And right now it isn't fun. If you can't come up with a way that I can differentiate "empty" wrecks from ones with loot, I will leave the game. I just received LOTR beta, so I have someplace to go.
Jeanne
I fully agree...I don't like this at all..in a few hours time the whole Belt has a huge number of wrecks, and they all color white (instead of yellow) in the overview,..then you shoot a rat..and can not find YOUR OWN wreck anymore..they all look the same...why is the yellow color not used any more for a wreck that is not yours !
I agree as well
I have never been more frustrated in EVE as I was today
looting lv 4 missions or complexes has always been the most boring part of EVE for me, and this just makes it unbearable
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James Duar
Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2006.11.30 04:34:00 -
[104]
Just make looted and unlooted wrecks two different types of wreck. That way if you have no interest in salvage you loot, it disappears from your overview and ideally in the process the window closes and you lose lock on it.
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Joran Dusyfe
Gallente Archron Dusyfe Industries
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Posted - 2006.11.30 06:22:00 -
[105]
Edited by: Joran Dusyfe on 30/11/2006 06:24:13 I wish some people would actually read the posts before they post the same rant as everyone else.
Salvaging is meant to be another type of job in EvE, which means you can do it yourself or even possibly hire someone else to do it. For those of you that are professional mission runners running level 4 missions, you could easily hire someone when you have finished the first gate of your mission. If they are good at their job and you yours, they should easily be able to clean up the mess before you or as you finish the second part. This way you aren't loosing time by going back for the loot afterwards and you can concentrate on finishing the mission.
Salvaging also is the key to Rigs, which if you look at them can do some very nice things for you in combat and other areas. Without the wrecks to salvage you cannot build rigs. So the comment made about not letting others salvage the wrecks because they are yours and you have no intention of letting them is dumb. If you destroy the wrecks fine, but you stated you didn't want to waste the ammo on them. This is fine, it's easy to fit scan probes and find the wrecks you leave after you complete your mission. Yes they'll still be there.
Another thing you could possibly do to advance the salvage career is the following. After you are done with your mission or a gate area, create a bm to one wreck in the area. Sell the bm to a salvager for a certain ammount of ISK. Basically you have another source of income.
Now all that being said, apparently after a crash earlier yesterday the salvaging system broke. I spent several hours trying multiple mission sites today and receive not one item needed for my corporations debut in the rig sales market. I'm very upset as I've spent a lot of time and money to outfit a fleet of salvage ships for my corporation. CCP, if nothing else please fix the salvaging.
Joran Dusyfe CEO Archron Dusyfe Industries
Visit our website. |
Attractive Spokesmodel
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.30 06:29:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Oveur We'll make it more visible if it has been looted but we're not removing the wrecks if it's been looted. We have some other improvements lined up for wrecks too.
SWEET!!! Dude - You are my new hero!
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Destr0math
Tritanium Workers Union
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Posted - 2006.11.30 06:38:00 -
[107]
after doing a massive attack w/ sanshas swarmers just repeatedly spawning over and over...i have to beg that wrecks only spawn sometimes, like cans used to, at least with NPC's. There's simply too many NPC deaths to make them worth all this space and annoyance on the part of us.
Ultimately, i think that wrecks should spawn from people killed and not NPC's. That way, PVP'ers could offer something back to carebears :)
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Kittsy
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Posted - 2006.11.30 06:39:00 -
[108]
I'm really disliking the wrecks myself.. utter pain to go through and loot everything, and half the time there's nothing to loot anyways. So you spend ten minutes bouncing between wrecks for absolutely no reason and blow a bunch of time. Meh... I "do" rather like the idea of wrecks and cans though. If it has loot, boom out pops the classic loot can as the ship explodes and leaves a wreck beside it, if not, everything is lost and just the wreck is left behind, would simplify things so much for those who have no urge to mess around with salvage themselves. :)
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DETOVI
Caldari Deep Space Keggers
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Posted - 2006.11.30 06:50:00 -
[109]
ya gotta change the "status" of the looted wreck somehow.... its a royal pain in the ares to loot a wreck to seee it still as if hteres still contents...
Help a burtha out .... soon =P
:D
.
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Neckbone
Minmatar Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2006.11.30 07:15:00 -
[110]
I've got to chime in, too. At first I thought I would like the wrecks.
I took my trusty Jaguar into L3 Spy Stash, and after an exhilerating battle with that huge fleet of Angels I've got cans scattered everywhere. I bookmarked a wreck in each pocket, warped back to station and hopped into my "Can Opener", a Probe fitted with two tractor beams, an afterburner, and cargo expanders. It's cheap and functional, right?
So I fly towards one wreck while tractoring two more to me. All three are empty, and don't pop. Well they are close to each other at least. Lock two more wrecks within 20 km and reel them in; both empty. I end up reeling in every wreck in the deadspace, into about 5 "piles" just leaving them open after I open the cans I tractored, and out of the 30 wrecks I opened, on average 1 in 5 had loot.
Are you kidding me!?
Set aside the "show if looted" crap. How about "show if it's a waste of my time to bother looting wrecks anymore". Actually don't waste time developing that feature, because it's obviously a waste of time. I guess I'll just turn Wrecks off in my overview and just kill that portion of my income goodbye. I mean I've already lost the income, because 1 in 5 ships actually has loot. I'm just saving myself the effort of looting everything to discover that. If a wreck spawns it needs loot in it.
That scattered battlefield is really nifty--and stupid, when 80% of the wrecks are empty husks. It's got nothing to do with bringing a salvage team along--I'm going to now have 10% of my kills have any loot, if I split it with a salvage team? No thank you.
I think it sucks badly enough that I can't pop my own wrecks in my can collector, but twelve increments higher on the suck-scale is 1 in 5 wrecks actually having loot in them.
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Varis
Jericho Fraction
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Posted - 2006.11.30 07:23:00 -
[111]
Actually, I quite like the wrecks as is. its a new opportunity for someone who wants to scan out mission runners and clean up after them.
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kill0rbunny
Caldari Chimera Intelligence Agency
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Posted - 2006.11.30 08:38:00 -
[112]
Edited by: kill0rbunny on 30/11/2006 08:40:21
Originally by: Zartmann
Yes ! I'm a dedicated professional mission runner - that's what is fun for me in EVE Yes ! I'm a Carebear Pilot ! So What ? Yes ! Revelations totaly ruined my EVE experience (Can't loot no more it's a total mess) Yes ! I'm totaliy pis***d with this TIME CONSUMING way of working, I can make my normal ISK income because in Revelations my lvl 4 missions takes 5 times more to complete the way a think it's correct (collecting all my desearved loot !) Yes ! I'll quit EVE (several accounts) because it's absolutly NO FUN to spend my limited PLAY=FUN time searching and entangled with dozen stupids empty wrecks that I don't have skills or interest in salvage ! And, finaly NO - ABOSOLUTLY NOT - YOU CAN NOT HAVE MAY STUFF ! rable rable rable rable!!! Please CCP, Get a grip on this situation TODAY !!!!
Yes, you certainly ARE too dull to run missions properly. Get yourself an exequeror, fitt it highs full with tractor beams, one Med Smartbomb, Microwarpdrive, Cap Rechargers, Nanos or Cargo Expanders, depending on who much loot there will be. Suck the wrecks, loot, bust them with smartie, move along to next spawn. Seems easy? Well, why couldn't you figure it out?
Why are there always people requesting fixes in Eve for things that are so easy to solve with just a little brain usage.
Play WOW instead suckers. _____________________________ Hugh. |
Vechloran
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Posted - 2006.11.30 08:44:00 -
[113]
One thing I think would REALLY REALLY help those of us that wouldn't mind being scavangers/salvagers for other people is some sort of a tractor beam like device that pulls all wrecks to with in 5k to be salvaged.
One problem with being a salvager for others is that they tend to leave the wrecks scattered about and not really orderly.
If I had a new ship just for salvaging that could equip this spherical like tractor beam (shoot...all you need is a GIANT MAGNET) that only grabs wrecks I would be one hell of a happy salvager.
Also, I have been salvaging all day for corp mates and just taking what I find left over in the belts and at gates. Whats up with the absolutely **** poor amount of stuff gotten? I mean we need like 200+ things to make one rig, I spent all day and I got about 110 things. the economy for rigs is going to be nuts for a while, but in the long run it really looks like components and rigs are going to be alot more expensive then many people were hoping. I personally was hoping for a 3-20 miillino isk range for the rigs, but right now if I consider the time put into get the components its probably going to start around 20 and go up to 100mil isk for the rigs that require special material from higher level rats, rediculous.
Also one more word of warnign for people, DRONES GIVE NOTHING IN SALVAGE. I salvaged an entire lvl3 mission for a friend that was all drones, didn't get a single thing from the 50+ I salvaged, so yea, skip drones if you want salvage.
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freakshow2
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Posted - 2006.11.30 09:37:00 -
[114]
Originally by: OneSock Ok so I just did my first salvaging
1. ships drop a loot can and a wreck.
This way you can see the cans and collect them in the same way. can's are crim flagged as usual.
2. wrecks are not flagged and can be salvaged by anyone.
3. you only get one chance to salvage. One cycle, after which the wreck "pops" whether the salvage succeeds or not. at least this way you can move on to something else and the wreck does not continue to clutter the overview.
I agree. DonÆt bother filling in the triangle to show if wreck has been looted or not, put a can and a wreck together. Wrecks can be salvaged by anyone canÆs have the same rules as before. This way you can remove wrecks from your overview and still see just the cans. It seems to me reading through this topic this is what people are asking for.
I did a plex last night and had to add my corp ticker to my overview so I know what wrecks were mine tractor beam them in loot it then shoot it , All this and half the wrecks are empty? Everyone who is not interested or skilled in salvage will do this and there will be fewer wrecks for salvage teams.
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Naran Darkmood
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.30 09:49:00 -
[115]
Edited by: Naran Darkmood on 30/11/2006 09:50:30
Originally by: Oveur Just to elaborate on the changes we're looking at:
- Their icon changes (a triangle is filled when it's unlooted)
Hooray, a suggestion from me made it into the game!
BTW: is it also one of the changes for easy handling, that mission wrecks supposedly don't yield anything anymore on salvaging?
Originally by: Jiekon From what i`m aware of, reading the game rules, it's not against any rules to mine
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Atreides Ghanima
Last Line Of Defense
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Posted - 2006.11.30 10:37:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Oveur - Decrease the pre-req which is a tad high atm (This will be in the Tuesday patch)
Plz do not lower the pre-req for salvaging. Survey is a rank 1 skill, its just 6 - 7 days for learning the skill upto lvl 5. If people don't have time for those 6 - 7 days, well imo they are not worthy for salvaging ... ----- The spice must flow!!! |
VeNT
Minmatar Freelancer Union Unaffiliated
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Posted - 2006.11.30 10:57:00 -
[117]
another point. I've noticed that while you get marked as a theif for taking loot from a wreck you don't for salvaging it! so I can warp around a system, salvaging everyones wrecks that have been looted (btw ta everyone in osmoden for their wrecks, I've a load of those salvaged components if anyone wants to contact me about buying/selling etc)
-------------------- Selena 001 > has VeNT left system? its gone really quiet! |
Miri Tirzan
Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.11.30 11:01:00 -
[118]
A few observations:
1. The skill requirements are not excessive now. No more dumbing down Eve.
2. Did two missions to get NPC wrecks. a. Merc wrecks had lots of loot but not a single salvage item in 30+ wrecks b. Priate faction wrecks had little loot and little salvage items. The ones that had no loot or salvage items were really annoying.
3. Created some Player wrecks. a. Everyone dropped scrap metal.
So, why does not every wreck, player or NPC, drop scrap metal? I can see that there might not be loot or damaged items but a wreck is scrap metal so why not have every wreck drop some?
If a wreck has no scrap metal, no loot, and no salvage items, then why is there a wreck?
Otherwise, salvage and wrecks are pretty nice.
svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
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KillinVillin
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Posted - 2006.11.30 11:09:00 -
[119]
Originally by: kill0rbunny Edited by: kill0rbunny on 30/11/2006 08:40:21
Originally by: Zartmann
Yes ! I'm a dedicated professional mission runner - that's what is fun for me in EVE Yes ! I'm a Carebear Pilot ! So What ? Yes ! Revelations totaly ruined my EVE experience (Can't loot no more it's a total mess) Yes ! I'm totaliy pis***d with this TIME CONSUMING way of working, I can make my normal ISK income because in Revelations my lvl 4 missions takes 5 times more to complete the way a think it's correct (collecting all my desearved loot !) Yes ! I'll quit EVE (several accounts) because it's absolutly NO FUN to spend my limited PLAY=FUN time searching and entangled with dozen stupids empty wrecks that I don't have skills or interest in salvage ! And, finaly NO - ABOSOLUTLY NOT - YOU CAN NOT HAVE MAY STUFF ! rable rable rable rable!!! Please CCP, Get a grip on this situation TODAY !!!!
Yes, you certainly ARE too dull to run missions properly. Get yourself an exequeror, fitt it highs full with tractor beams, one Med Smartbomb, Microwarpdrive, Cap Rechargers, Nanos or Cargo Expanders, depending on who much loot there will be. Suck the wrecks, loot, bust them with smartie, move along to next spawn. Seems easy? Well, why couldn't you figure it out?
Why are there always people requesting fixes in Eve for things that are so easy to solve with just a little brain usage.
Play WOW instead suckers.
alright just to let you know before you start shootin your mouth off why dont you try using smartbombs on wrecks, it just doesnt work go whine somewhere else and go play wow like you said.
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chernobly
Gallente The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
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Posted - 2006.11.30 11:18:00 -
[120]
if i recall correctly, salvaging was supposed to be a mini-profession, meaning that you should have someone in your corp who you can pass on a bookmark to, & they'd go off & loot/salvage for you after an engagement. you could charge them for whatever goodies they turn up, or they could pass them back to you & charge you for the service.
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chernobly
Gallente The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
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Posted - 2006.11.30 11:22:00 -
[121]
in any case, it makes perfect sense to require salvaging skill for regular lootng, although this will probably not be considered, as it would put newer players at quite a severe disadvantage
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Rafein
Eye of God Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.30 11:44:00 -
[122]
What i would like to see done to salvaging.
1. Either greatly increase base chance, or make it always work. Nothing sucks more than running 6-7 cycles on a wreck, then still not getting anything. Personally, i would prefer it always works, and your skills determine your yield.
2. Make ships sizes matter for riggings. Frigs should give out, say, Frigs 0-2, Destroyers 0-3, Cruisers 0-4, BC 1-5, BS 1-6 salvagable units, respecivly.
3. Like everyone else says, a way to tell between empty and full wrecks. Makes looting faster.
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Drek Grapper
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Posted - 2006.11.30 11:49:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Kittsy I'm really disliking the wrecks myself.. utter pain to go through and loot everything, and half the time there's nothing to loot anyways. So you spend ten minutes bouncing between wrecks for absolutely no reason and blow a bunch of time. Meh... I "do" rather like the idea of wrecks and cans though. If it has loot, boom out pops the classic loot can as the ship explodes and leaves a wreck beside it, if not, everything is lost and just the wreck is left behind, would simplify things so much for those who have no urge to mess around with salvage themselves. :)
I second this. Cans for loot...wrecks for salvage. Easy peasy, problem solved.
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Grey Area
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.30 12:10:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Rafein What i would like to see done to salvaging.
1. Either greatly increase base chance, or make it always work. Nothing sucks more than running 6-7 cycles on a wreck, then still not getting anything. Personally, i would prefer it always works, and your skills determine your yield.
2. Make ships sizes matter for riggings. Frigs should give out, say, Frigs 0-2, Destroyers 0-3, Cruisers 0-4, BC 1-5, BS 1-6 salvagable units, respecivly.
3. Like everyone else says, a way to tell between empty and full wrecks. Makes looting faster.
I'm fine with the speed as it is, IF there is a good enough price on the items to make it worth while. Currently it's impossible to tell (the normal crowd of idiots have their 1 ISK buy orders out) but the collection procedure takes at LEAST an hour.
Regarding paying for salvaging rights...sure, I'd pay to salvage someone's mission...but no more than 1,000 ISK. I mean think about it
1. There'd be plenty of chancers giving out blank bookmarks and just keeping the ISK
2. Even if it's genuine, there's no guarantee as to what you will actually find
3. It takes as long to salvage the mission as it did to run it in the first place (longer than salvaging your own, since you can't tractor other people's wrecks - any chance you could allow this CCP?)
4. What does the mission runner lose by NOT giving you the bookmark? It's not as if they are going to go back and salvage it themselves, or they wouldn't be offering the bookmark in the first place, would they? ---
I don't mind you disagreeing with me. Just don't say I don't have the SKILLS to comment until you've looked at them. |
Necrosmith
Gallente Wife lets me play corp
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Posted - 2006.11.30 12:11:00 -
[125]
Changing color of a looted wreck is a good idea, but not good enough.
You really need to be able to filter out looted wrecks from the overview too.
Best Regards,
--Necro
------------- "Isk is cheap. Life is cheaper. This week, they're having a sale on both." |
Kra Martel
Caldari Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2006.11.30 12:29:00 -
[126]
I agree, Wrecks with loot should have a different icon (and/or colour too maybe, but mind the people with colour blindness) to wrecks without.
The overview filter is a must too. People might still want to loot during a fight, but I doubt anyone would be interested in salvaging... Let the people who want to salvage come back in a salvage ship with a salvage overview.
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JeanPierre
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Posted - 2006.11.30 14:00:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Grey Area Edited by: Grey Area on 30/11/2006 00:40:38
Originally by: Mister ****ypants My question would be this: If I run a lvl 4 mission that drops maybe 30 cans, would I get enough from salvaging the wrecks to justify the time invested, or would I be better off simply looting (I have a dedicated hauler character) and then completing the mission in order to quickly move on to the next?
Hard to tell right now...what I can tell you is what I've done...
Level 4 Vengeance (Guristas)...took 3 and a half hours to loot and salvage fully Level 4 Worlds Collide (Guristas/Serpentis)...took 3 and a half hours to loot and salvage fully.
If you want to see what I salvaged, go here, but I have no idea what it is worth as yet.
Neat.
I'm looking @ salvaging like I look at deep core mining. Not for everybody, and if you don't do it, you still don't really lose anything (since you're still getting your regular loot "cans" albeit now a part of the wreckage itself). The materials from this aren't really useable in a whole lot of areas, excepting the obvious (rig production coming immediately to mind). So for us uber-industry type characters, it's worth the time investment and hassle, for you combat types, it's probably not. Really, why everybody thinks it has to pay off for everybody evenly is beyond me. It's a mini-professional skill of sorts, nothing more. Not everybody can deep core mine either, yet they can mine normally, yet I don't see any complaints about being "cheated of my share of the spoils" or whatever from miners.
The actual implementation of it is a bit borked, but reading through the thread it appears that it's going to be addressed, so really, that's not a big deal at this point, just a minor inconvenience. Really, looks like a lot of fun, I've already purchased quite a few rigging BPO's in anticipation of getting out there and salvaging. :)
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corvalar maltoff
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.11.30 14:15:00 -
[128]
based on the replies: we should have salvage and loot. loot = cans salvage = wrecks also maybe scrap metal drones. once a wreck has been completely stripped of salvage you can send your drones out, drop a container and let them fill it up. just an idea.
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Phrixus Zephyr
Yesodic Nomads Corp Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2006.11.30 14:29:00 -
[129]
Originally by: Amira Silvermist
Originally by: Anatolius
Originally by: Oveur
- Decrease the pre-req which is a tad high atm (This will be in the Tuesday patch)
Come on, I'll have Survey trained to V by then!
Yes, its not nice to kick people in the bean bag because they were willing to invest skill training time for salvaging. If the prerequisites would would at least give a bonus or something...
So i've already trained Survey 5 for what?
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JeanPierre
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Posted - 2006.11.30 14:40:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr
Originally by: Amira Silvermist
Originally by: Anatolius
Originally by: Oveur
- Decrease the pre-req which is a tad high atm (This will be in the Tuesday patch)
Come on, I'll have Survey trained to V by then!
Yes, its not nice to kick people in the bean bag because they were willing to invest skill training time for salvaging. If the prerequisites would would at least give a bonus or something...
So i've already trained Survey 5 for what?
The highest end survey probes. It has another use, that skill. Look into it. It rocks.
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Pantheon Lea
Farmer Boyz
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Posted - 2006.11.30 14:55:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Mister ****ypants My question would be this: If I run a lvl 4 mission that drops maybe 30 cans, would I get enough from salvaging the wrecks to justify the time invested, or would I be better off simply looting (I have a dedicated hauler character) and then completing the mission in order to quickly move on to the next?
You will always be make more ISK farming missions the quickest way possible, that includes no looting and only doing those few missions that gives the best ISK/hour ratio.
However, ISK is not what i define as rich gameplay, when you round 10 billion ISK in the wallet and investments are covering your daily ISK needs, nothing seems to matter anymore and you will find yourself addicted to a very dull and monotone way of playing the game.
I have been there, suffered and finally worked it out, but a lot of my friends did not make it, and are no longer around, only trace of them is the fat wallets they left behind, the ISK did not come to any use at all....
Pantheon Lea
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Oneye Zheng
Amarr Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2006.11.30 15:01:00 -
[132]
Hope you don't mind, here are my thoughts:
Wrecks and salvaging sound like a great addition to the game and add more depth and stuff for folks to like industry to play with.
This openÆs up some fun with belt Ratting, Mining, Salvaging gangs or just salvagers flying around doing their thing. Which sounds great.
Also there is the mission player that would like to enjoy the opportunity to salvage some of the wrecks he created on his mission as well, and this is where it gets a bit rough for him/her time wise if nothing else.
For instance, If you are in a Battleship you already want to fit a tractor beam because trying to loot a mission without it is pretty rough. Now fitting a Salvaging unit in another high slot is going to slow you down a bit further taking away DPS or any other useful high slot mod you could fit there.
What if you are running missionÆs in a ship with less high slots and you want to salvage your wrecks? Ships that didnÆt need to give up a high slot before ex. Frigates because they can maneuver to the cans well, now would need to for a salvaging unit. Personally I, like many others donÆt enjoy flying back with a fast Frig to pick up loot in any mission, so on my Battleship I fit a tractor. I can concede that the faster time I can complete a mission with a Frig would balance out the time going back with a salvager if I had to.
Now, I am not saying I have perfect solutions here for any of these possible scenarios, I am just requesting that the DevÆs take a deeper look at this new content and how to mesh it with current game play.
However some ideaÆs that come to my mind are: Battleship sized combo tractor beams/salvaging units Salvaging Drones Tow Cable Rig for Frigs to drag wrecks (Makes flying back with a slower salvager less of a timesink)
Thanks for reading! -1i
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Minarleth
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Posted - 2006.11.30 15:09:00 -
[133]
Edited by: Minarleth on 30/11/2006 15:09:50 I say you make wrecks scannable. Either with a standard Ship scanner or create a new Wreck Scanner and the skills that come with it.
You know where to put your efforts when looting and theres less flying from wrecks to wrecks. Kinda makes the Tractor useless tough, or at the least not as usefull.
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Karo Kezo
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Posted - 2006.11.30 15:41:00 -
[134]
I hope that all that mineral won't be wasted around the wrecks. we can realy recycle those a lot¿!
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Jason Marshall
Infinite Innovations Astral Wolves
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Posted - 2006.11.30 15:49:00 -
[135]
can someone point me to the place where the devs say they are lowering the skill reqs....cause ive spent the last 3 days training survey.....and this it think is going to **** me off =\.
Tacky lens flares in sigs 4tw! |
Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control
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Posted - 2006.11.30 16:04:00 -
[136]
Originally by: Slevin Kalebra Having wrecks remain for after looting the modules makes sense... the 'whole' mods are stripped first, then the damaged ones are stripped of useful components. But tt would also make sense if you could choose to 'self' destruct a wreck once you had taken as much from it as you wanted. On the other hand, leaving wrecks in belts for scavengers to come along and pick over is kinda cool too... although it would be even better if there was a timer on the wreck that allowed anyone to loot it without getting flagged as a can thief.
You can always just shoot the wrecks... ---------------------------------------- Friends Forever
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JeanPierre
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Posted - 2006.11.30 16:08:00 -
[137]
Originally by: Jason Marshall can someone point me to the place where the devs say they are lowering the skill reqs....cause ive spent the last 3 days training survey.....and this it think is going to **** me off =\.
It was said on the Ships and Modules subforum, but I don't have a link, mostly because I'm lazy. But I did in fact see it, in print, from a Dev, on a public thread. It's happening.
Content Addition Vetrans know not to trust initial skill requirements or mod statistics the first few days after a release.
Suck it up and move on. If you're close to Survey V already, finish it out, it's a great open door to using the highest level scan/survey probes.
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ShaffGT
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Posted - 2006.11.30 16:16:00 -
[138]
CCP, throw out wreckage or make loot=can, salvage=wreckage ,
use bit brain, why got wreckage if nothing drop/salvage ?
shaff,
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JazmanKills
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Posted - 2006.11.30 16:20:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Haniblecter Teg
Originally by: Slevin Kalebra Having wrecks remain for after looting the modules makes sense... the 'whole' mods are stripped first, then the damaged ones are stripped of useful components. But tt would also make sense if you could choose to 'self' destruct a wreck once you had taken as much from it as you wanted. On the other hand, leaving wrecks in belts for scavengers to come along and pick over is kinda cool too... although it would be even better if there was a timer on the wreck that allowed anyone to loot it without getting flagged as a can thief.
You can always just shoot the wrecks...
It was mentioned by Oveur on page 1 of this thread... **************************************************************** Just to elaborate on the changes we're looking at:
- Their icon changes (a triangle is filled when it's unlooted) - Wrecks bump away when you fly past them (they are already tractorable) - Decrease the pre-req which is a tad high atm (This will be in the Tuesday patch) - No criminal flag for salvaging (looting still flags you)
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Idami Raptor
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Posted - 2006.11.30 16:55:00 -
[140]
The part I dislike most, rather than the wrecks themselves, or even the fact that you can't tell which you've checked already(which is going to be fixed soon), is the stealth nerf to loot drop rates that went in Simultaneously. It completely shafts lowbies, especially with the absurdly high prereqs for salvagers... I cannot wait for those to come down next week.
Fact is though, running missions, I was making as much, or more, from the loot as I was from the missions or the bounties. So far today, My rate for actually getting any loot has been signifigantly less than 1 in 10. Previously, almost every pirate dropped a can which almost always contained something, even if it was just a civvie shield booster.
Going to be a lot harder to get anywhere with this loot rate nerf. |
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Megas Alkaia
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Posted - 2006.11.30 17:19:00 -
[141]
Are you sure drop rates were nerfed? I didn't notice this at all.
I have done a number of missions and the loot seems about the same. If anything officer spawns in missions seem more common so loot is slightly improved... but I don't really ahve enough data points to say if that is truly so or not.
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Lucius Ventrue
Minmatar Resurrection R i s e
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Posted - 2006.11.30 17:23:00 -
[142]
I have developed a fix for this, after loot, nuke it ;)
Unfortantly i now use 1 more torp or cruise per loot now, guess it can get expensive and break down my bottom line at the end of the day wasting that much more ammo, esp T2 ammo
30Kills - 7Loss |
Caliwyrm O'Libr
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Posted - 2006.11.30 18:10:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Megas Alkaia Are you sure drop rates were nerfed? I didn't notice this at all.
I have done a number of missions and the loot seems about the same. If anything officer spawns in missions seem more common so loot is slightly improved... but I don't really ahve enough data points to say if that is truly so or not.
I certainly think they have been. I ran about a dozen each of L2 and L3 missions in Caldari, Gallente and Minmatar space and, pre-patch, I would fill my hold on the different ____ Extravaganza missions. Not so post patch.. In fact on 1 L3 Angel Extravaganza I got an amazing *4* items from ships (however the Silo loot seemed to be untouched).
The other mission runners in my corp have all noticed incredidly lowered amounts of loot as well.
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Mysticaa
Gallente Fringe Roamers of Goa
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Posted - 2006.11.30 18:14:00 -
[144]
So if the requirements for salvaging are changing could a DEV come post what the new pre-reqs will be! Please ----------------------------------------------- Why do I post here?
Originally by: Tao Han
"TANK CEO!!!" Quick Wrangler, to the Banmobile!!!
Sig snatched by Xorus
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Senmar
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Posted - 2006.11.30 19:38:00 -
[145]
Originally by: JeanPierre
Originally by: Jason Marshall can someone point me to the place where the devs say they are lowering the skill reqs....cause ive spent the last 3 days training survey.....and this it think is going to **** me off =\.
It was said on the Ships and Modules subforum, but I don't have a link, mostly because I'm lazy...
You really need to read threads before you post to them. Oveur mentioned the changes IN THIS THREAD!
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Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2006.11.30 22:26:00 -
[146]
Originally by: Oveur Just to elaborate on the changes we're looking at:
- Their icon changes (a triangle is filled when it's unlooted) - Wrecks bump away when you fly past them (they are already tractorable) - Decrease the pre-req which is a tad high atm (This will be in the Tuesday patch) - No criminal flag for salvaging (looting still flags you)
Please just make empty, salvaged wrecks vanish.
You guys might've helped the servers by killing instas, but you're going to just kill the server when there's millions of wrecks lying around.
Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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Artemis Aeneas
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Posted - 2006.11.30 22:37:00 -
[147]
There should be 2 different icons:
1 - Wrecks with loot. 2 - Wrecks without loot or already salvagable.
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Ehranavaar
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Posted - 2006.11.30 22:49:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Oveur We'll make it more visible if it has been looted but we're not removing the wrecks if it's been looted. We have some other improvements lined up for wrecks too.
greatly appreciate that little improvement. makes belt ratting a pain if you cannot tell which of the assorted wrecks floating about are worth looking at. thanks for kali btw.
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Ephemeral Waves
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Posted - 2006.11.30 22:52:00 -
[149]
Originally by: Megas Alkaia Are you sure drop rates were nerfed? I didn't notice this at all.
Out of 30 0.1sec roid rats I killed last night I got 4 with loot in the wreckage.
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GIJoe85
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Posted - 2006.11.30 23:33:00 -
[150]
As some people have already said before, the simplest solution to me would to drop cans for loot AND wrecks for salvage. That way people could choose what they want to collect.
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Shenlung
Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2006.11.30 23:42:00 -
[151]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
People in my npc corp are also asking why wrecks have more hp than the ships they came from.... its a good question.
Because a ship has fuels and systems on it that are fragile and/or explosive. The low HP are set that way to give a relative display of this fact.
A wreck, on the other hand, it basically a big chunk of metal. Which is why the HP are higher.
My opine? You should be able to mine the wrecks....they are chunks of metal, after all.... "No one was ever free who was unwilling to die to maintain that freedom." -Shenlung- |
Sarf
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Posted - 2006.11.30 23:46:00 -
[152]
Originally by: Oveur Just to elaborate on the changes we're looking at: - No criminal flag for salvaging (looting still flags you)
Umm might have been pointed out already, but you can't salvage until the wreck is looted.
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Sir Emi
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.12.01 00:36:00 -
[153]
Originally by: Sarf
Originally by: Oveur Just to elaborate on the changes we're looking at: - No criminal flag for salvaging (looting still flags you)
Umm might have been pointed out already, but you can't salvage until the wreck is looted.
Haha, that's right, so you will only be flaged if someone droped a can for putting ore or other stuff, and you came and got it lol.
Space Odyssey Maker...
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Jai Gar
Agents of the Veiled Dragon
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Posted - 2006.12.01 13:41:00 -
[154]
After scanning this thread (way too many to read them all since they all say the same thing) I notice only two (2) posts by anyone at CCP... One about changing colors on looted cans, and one about the coolness of a battlefield strewn with debris.
For the first post, thanks. ANYTHING will help. The system is so seriously flawed... rant rant rant... sorry... One of the deeper problems is not so much the color of a wreck you've alread checked, but the fact that only about 5% of the wrecks contain any "loot". Before, nearly 80% of destroyed ships left a can with loot. Why the monsterous nerf in standard loot. Do you realize what this nerf will do to the markets?! OMG! Prices on the new stuff from the patch are already out of control. Now that there will be large-scale shortages of standard loot on the market, ALL prices are going to begin to skyrocket! Pair that with the fact that the missions don't pay more to compensate in the loot sale losses, and you are going to have to take an amazingly longer time to earn the money to get the things you need to make the game enjoyable...
As for battlefield clutter... Are you insane? The visual would be cool, yes, but I do recall a real need to combat lag on the servers... Warp to 0 is supposed to ease the lag cause by thousands of people with hundreds of insta warp bookmarks. This wreck system is going to cause way more lag than some stupid bookmarks...
Anyway... My rant is getting long, and I'm sure most of this has already been talked about and ignored by CCP in other threads (dozens, I'm sure).
I did read one post here (sorry, don't recall the person) that asked for Salvage Drones! Awsome idea and one I would gladly pay/train for! People have asked for loot drones before. Technically speaking, in a "real" EVE universe, technology would have come up with this. If a species can develop faster than light speed travel, a garbage drone should be a no brainer... Salvage Drone(s) could be deployed after a battle to collect loot and salvage ship material. They could be deployed while the battle is raging to work while you fight. They would have to return to you many times to drop the loot/salvage into your hold since they wouldn't have much cargo space. They would also be in danger of being destroyed if working during a fight since they might be targetted by the enemy...
It's such a cool idea. I don't expect to see it until stage 2 of whatever comes after Kali... Sorry, that is uncalled for... I've been a Dev and coded for 8-16 hours a day before. It's hard work. The sheer volume of work you've done already should be applauded. I can only give one bit of advice (take it as you may)... You need NON-Coders working with you to see past the code and consider the results of what you produce... You need a Devil's Advocate on staff to look at the negative side of what you are creating, not a bunch of Yesmen/Yeswomen bowing to upper managements every whim... People say they brought all this up in testing way before you deployed. Did you think the testers didn't know what they were saying and once 25K people got on, they would like it more than the 500 testers?
Woops! Sorry... Went back to ranting...
I will close with a request to see more active responses in these forums by the CCP team. Doesn't have to be high-level Devs. You should have some PR people working the forums so we don't think you are ignoring our whinings...
Cheers...
P.S. Can you stick one noob Web Dev on the problem of our RMR/Bloodlines faces. I'm really tired of being an Exclamation point... ... ...
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Harisdrop
Gallente ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.12.01 15:31:00 -
[155]
Edited by: Harisdrop on 01/12/2006 15:32:23 Keep survey V...... Make this a profession!!!!
Remove mechanics V
The idea of less loot in cargo cans is great. I think more manufacturing of tech I bpo mods is better for the market.
Originally by: Dwight Hammerhead . Just because Kali is already in testing. If CCP were actually concerned about what ppl think they would of opened it up for discussion.
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Harisdrop
Gallente ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.12.01 15:33:00 -
[156]
Edited by: Harisdrop on 01/12/2006 15:34:47
Originally by: Sir Emi
Originally by: Sarf
Originally by: Oveur Just to elaborate on the changes we're looking at: - No criminal flag for salvaging (looting still flags you)
Umm might have been pointed out already, but you can't salvage until the wreck is looted.
Haha, that's right, so you will only be flaged if someone droped a can for putting ore or other stuff, and you came and got it lol.
These are loot cans not self ejected cans. You cant put stuff in loot cans. You will get flagged if you try to loot someone elses kill.
Originally by: Dwight Hammerhead . Just because Kali is already in testing. If CCP were actually concerned about what ppl think they would of opened it up for discussion.
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Megas Alkaia
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Posted - 2006.12.01 17:58:00 -
[157]
A massive nerf to loot drop rates would indeed help the t1 market a great deal, and slow down game inflation quite a bit.
That said I have been running L2 missions since the patch and have not noticed a siginifcant reduction in loot (doesnt mean there isnt one, but I think it's not "OMGZ 90% LES!!" :D). I have done the new L2 Blockade mission and that drops hardly any loot for the sheer quantity of ships and difficulty, so maybe the new missions are out of whack?
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JazmanKills
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Posted - 2006.12.02 13:29:00 -
[158]
Well, the amount of loot drop seems to have been returned to normal (noticed it Thursday night). So to the dev team...
THANKS FOR LISTENING!
Jazman
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d026
Herrscher der Zeit
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Posted - 2006.12.02 15:51:00 -
[159]
It would eb soooo simple: CANS FOR LOOT!!!! wrecks for the salvagers.. please do so!
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Freaky Bare
Minmatar Blueprint Haus Center for Disease Creation
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Posted - 2006.12.02 16:21:00 -
[160]
They can simply color code the wrecks. One color for wrecks with loot and one color for empty or looted wrecks. We are making this to complicated.
I am not an Alt, I am punctuation. |
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OneSock
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Posted - 2006.12.02 16:37:00 -
[161]
OK so to add a little bit more:
1. I just ran Black Market Hub and none of the wrecks we salvageable. None of them. Bug ? Mercenary npc wrecks don't contain salvage ?
2. If the wreck is not empty you have to loot it before you can salvage. This means you are going to be crim flagged for stealing.
3. You can't tractor a wreck which is not yours or your corps.
So this great idea of CCP to have people roaming around salvaging is a load of rubbish. Risk/reward ? As I see it, loads of risk, loads of time wasted and bog all reward with the current drop rates.
rigs are going to be a long time coming and expensive.
really it's simple.
1. destroyed ships drop a loot can and a wreck. Normal can flagging rules apply. 2. Wrecks are neutral and can be tractored and salvaged by anyone.
3. increase drop rate of salvage materials, decrease rig BPO material reqs.
4. leave the skill reqs as they are.
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Garme
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Posted - 2006.12.02 18:49:00 -
[162]
I would like to propose a few changes to salvaging to make it more useable both as a mission runner and as a new mini-profession.
Since salvaging is supposed to be a mini-profession lets finish the job by supplying more tools. I was a miner in the beginning and got used to using my scanner to tell me how much ore was in the roids. No sense in wasting several minutes on a roid to just have it pop with almost no ore. Salvaging should be no different and there should be a scanner to tell me which cans have loot or not. The scanner should tag everything within a certain radius as having or not having loot using any of the color schemes and icons suggested in the various forum threads. I don't think we want to tell exactly what loot is in the wreck unless you use a cargo type of scanner which would require a direct lock and another scan specifically on that wreck.
I think this would help solve the mission runner problem which is the mission runner can quickly go in and scan the entire field to mark which wrecks have loot. Once everything is scanned they just have to loot the ones tagged as containing loot. It would be nice if the 3 different forms of wrecks could be filtered separately on the overview (wreck with unknown contents, wrecks with loot, and wrecks without loot). Another option would be to allow manually scan each wreck from a distance which requires a lock/scan which will tell me exactly what loot is in the wreck.
The other related problem is the reduction of the salvage skill requirements which is being proposed for the next patch. These higher level skills could just be factored into the new tools for the profession. If survey affects your scanning distance then uber salvage characters will want it at 5. A mission runner does not need it at 5 if they just want to identify which wrecks have loot.
The final thing about salvaging is the fact that you should get something for your effort. Would I mine a roid for several minutes just to get nothing? I don't think so. The wrecks are from ships which are built from minerals and sometimes other components. Why not give a very small fraction of minerals as well as the occasional rigging components. If you salvage from a BS wreck you should get a larger quantity and possibly better types of minerals then you do when you salvage a frigate. I think the amount of minerals would be less than what a normal miner would be getting from a roid for the same amount time spent. This means you wonÆt get a whole lot of minerals but it will add up when you salvage an entire field of wrecks. The salvage skill would be good here as well, better salvage skill means higher amount of minerals.
Just my random thoughts from a miner turned mission runner and soon to be a salvage aficionado.
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