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Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2006.11.29 20:18:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 29/11/2006 20:19:45
Look at it this way, fellow Gallente specialized ppl: this is a great time to go out and take a break. I'm going to train for covert ops I think. That should take me about a month to break into a bit, and a bit more to finish specializing in it (all 3 new scanning skills to at least 4).
There's this idea in business: When you make a bad investment, you can do two things. You can hold onto the investment; or you can cut your losses and move on. According to a business professor I once had, the latter is apparently the better strategy. Initially this seems awkward, but if you think about it, it makes a lot of sense.
Since in Eve we don't really "lose" our investments, I guess this means "if what you're doing now isn't working out, try something different".
I'm personally of the opinion that some hard times are ahead for the stuff I've trained. I don't like it. But I don't really have a choice. I like Eve, I have hope for improvement, but I know that if things don't change I'm going to end up FOTMing anyway simply because I like playing the game.
Don't mean this to **** anyone off, I'm just trying to say: "yeah, this might suck, but give it time, and if time doesn't work, give it training."
EDIT: Here's my "tin foil hat" going on: I'm getting an odd vibe from this game lately, almost as if there are certain things being set up to be a certain way... like shield tanking intended to be better than armor tanking, etc. I don't know. It just feels like everything is stacked so perfectly... *shrug*... probably a delusion.
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Commander Nikolas
Gallente
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
Sani Khal'Vecna
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Posted - 2006.11.30 07:12:00 -
[32]
 Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 29/11/2006 20:19:45
Look at it this way, fellow Gallente specialized ppl: this is a great time to go out and take a break. I'm going to train for covert ops I think. That should take me about a month to break into a bit, and a bit more to finish specializing in it (all 3 new scanning skills to at least 4).
There's this idea in business: When you make a bad investment, you can do two things. You can hold onto the investment; or you can cut your losses and move on. According to a business professor I once had, the latter is apparently the better strategy. Initially this seems awkward, but if you think about it, it makes a lot of sense.
Since in Eve we don't really "lose" our investments, I guess this means "if what you're doing now isn't working out, try something different".
I'm personally of the opinion that some hard times are ahead for the stuff I've trained. I don't like it. But I don't really have a choice. I like Eve, I have hope for improvement, but I know that if things don't change I'm going to end up FOTMing anyway simply because I like playing the game.
Don't mean this to **** anyone off, I'm just trying to say: "yeah, this might suck, but give it time, and if time doesn't work, give it training."
EDIT: Here's my "tin foil hat" going on: I'm getting an odd vibe from this game lately, almost as if there are certain things being set up to be a certain way... like shield tanking intended to be better than armor tanking, etc. I don't know. It just feels like everything is stacked so perfectly... *shrug*... probably a delusion.
Or you could just go sit in Jita and run lvl 4's like Tuxford and Ovure. That way game balance wouldn't be an issue, you just sit there popping NPCs never understanding why another races ships/mods/rigs are better then yours :).
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Xendie
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.30 07:18:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Jin Entres
Armor repairing efficiency and cycle time aswell as resistance rigs work great, though, so I don't think we got shafted that bad, really. The rep rigs work better on ships with repping bonus, btw.
mmmmm....EOS +those rigs +kladdkaka =yummy
Quote:
Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Matrix Aran
Legio Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.11.30 07:59:00 -
[34]
Hyperion with 2 large armor reps that rep the amount of 4 large reps FTW! And it can still fit neutron IIs
----
Originally by: Wrangler
It's a neuralizer. 
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Royaldo
KVA Noble Inc.
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Posted - 2006.11.30 08:06:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Xendie
Originally by: Jin Entres
Armor repairing efficiency and cycle time aswell as resistance rigs work great, though, so I don't think we got shafted that bad, really. The rep rigs work better on ships with repping bonus, btw.
mmmmm....EOS +those rigs +kladdkaka =yummy
\o/ kladdkaka
took me 2 years to understand what it is
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vipeer
Celestial Horizon Corp.
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.30 08:56:00 -
[36]
/What Jim Entres, Xendie and Matrix Aran said.
On top of that: If it's so devastating to your speed to fit armor rigs why not fit a speed rig to offset the negative effects? You will sacrifice 5% armor if you bother to train the skill up to lvl 5 and the resulting ship will actually be faster, have more resists / armor HP / rep amount or faster rep cycle.
Another approach is to play a chicken and act like you're trying to run away and the targets will come to you. No need for uber speed there m8. Of course if you're a pirate or are always seeking for pvp that might not be the best tactic. You know for yourself how you like to play.
P.s. If the armor rigs blow very hard like you say in your OP dont use them.
Oh, what penalty would you propose they had?
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murder one
Gallente
CRICE Corporation
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.30 09:32:00 -
[37]
Originally by: vipeer
/What Jim Entres, Xendie and Matrix Aran said.
On top of that: If it's so devastating to your speed to fit armor rigs why not fit a speed rig to offset the negative effects? You will sacrifice 5% armor if you bother to train the skill up to lvl 5 and the resulting ship will actually be faster, have more resists / armor HP / rep amount or faster rep cycle.
Another approach is to play a chicken and act like you're trying to run away and the targets will come to you. No need for uber speed there m8. Of course if you're a pirate or are always seeking for pvp that might not be the best tactic. You know for yourself how you like to play.
P.s. If the armor rigs blow very hard like you say in your OP dont use them.
Oh, what penalty would you propose they had?
Why should armor tankers have to fit one rig just to help reduce the horrible fititng drawbacks of their armor rigs? Why should I have to forgo using armor rigs at all just beacuse their drawbacks are so bad? Shield tankers don't have to do this.
All the rigs are great for shield tankers, as their drawbacks don't actually hurt them in any real fashion. Blaster pilots get screwed the worst as they need both speed and armor and get neither.
Because I said so...
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.30 10:20:00 -
[38]
Signature radius _is_ a significant penalty. There's also no module or rig that will counteract it, so you're correct, shield tankers don't fit one.
Yes, in some situations the impact is reduced, but the same can be said for any given penalty.
It seems to be that the 'obvious' rig combos have been set up so they're less attractive.
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Gariuys
Evil Strangers Inc.
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Posted - 2006.11.30 10:30:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Twilight Moon
Edited by: Twilight Moon on 29/11/2006 15:16:57
So....don't fit armor rigs on Blaster Boats?
Fit damage instead!  What do you want a tank for anyway?
Quote:
(whoa who stabbed me in the bum)
Dunno mate. Maybe Verone? Did you forget to pay the ransom?
EHMMMMM damage rigs are stacking nerfed, meaning that if you're already using 2/3 damage mods, the benefit of the damage rig ( which gives half the bonus of a mag field to begin with ) is pretty fecking tiny, dropping 1 mag field for 2 damage rigs... is pretty retarded as well.
Blasterboats got the worst end of this patch. And that's a **** shame. Even though it was expected.
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dot me
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Posted - 2006.11.30 13:08:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
EDIT: Here's my "tin foil hat" going on: I'm getting an odd vibe from this game lately, almost as if there are certain things being set up to be a certain way... like shield tanking intended to be better than armor tanking, etc. I don't know. It just feels like everything is stacked so perfectly... *shrug*... probably a delusion.
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH.
so tell me .. is that why you see so many shield tankers in pvp .. right? =)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
i am sorry but i just can't help not crying over your sob feelings. yes you are right .. the devs want you nerfed :D
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vipeer
Celestial Horizon Corp.
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.30 16:41:00 -
[41]
Edited by: vipeer on 30/11/2006 16:42:54
Originally by: murder one
Why should armor tankers have to fit one rig just to help reduce the horrible fititng drawbacks of their armor rigs? Why should I have to forgo using armor rigs at all just beacuse their drawbacks are so bad? Shield tankers don't have to do this.
All the rigs are great for shield tankers, as their drawbacks don't actually hurt them in any real fashion. Blaster pilots get screwed the worst as they need both speed and armor and get neither.
After reading about Farjung's testing (i hope the numbers stick) i must say i agree with you. I am very dissapointed in the actual effect a signature radius has on damage dealt by turrets. Me too am a hybrid guns user and i like blasters very much. Well, with these rig drawbacks it really is a big drawback to blaster users. Cutting down their speed makes the ship more subceptible to sniping. A shield and an armor tanker one against the other the shield tanker obviously has a big advantage because the rigged armor tanker is slower on his approach thus giving more time to the shield tanker to kill it. The shield tanker's penalty has ZERO positive effect on the armor tankers damage output. Obviously a great unbalance. Bigger sig radius only means you will get hit harder by CM, torpedoes and citadel torpedos. Any other type of weapon has no effect. Considering that armor tankers do not use missiles there really is no advantage to be capitalized on. CCP needs to fix this imbalance or make the guns score better quality hits (more excellent and very good ) the bigger the sig radius is and vice versa. Now the gun's sig resolution is 400m. If a ship has 500m sig radius there should be a 20% higer chance of scoring a quality shot. This would also mean you would score a LOT of high quality hits on capital ships so their HP should get boosted even more or all guns damage reduced.
I used to really think that bigger sig means better hits and thus more damage. I was unpleasantly surprized when my blasters loaded with AM ammo could not score a hit on a webbed MWDing Battleship 2000m away. BS has 2.5km sig radius at least so i should be scoring 100%. In actual cases i was scoring under 20%
To sum it up: CCP should change the drawback on either shield rigs to something a shiled tanker would actually give a **** about (shield recharge rate, amount, boost, speed, targeting range, sig resolution) or change armor rigs to something an armor tanker does not give a **** about ( like shield boosting, amount, recharge rate )
OR
Make the sig radius size actually count when the quality of the hits is calculated not just for missiles.
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Manus Ghostface
Caldari
Quantum Industries
Prime Orbital Systems
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Posted - 2006.11.30 16:48:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Jin Entres
Armor repairing efficiency and cycle time aswell as resistance rigs work great, though, so I don't think we got shafted that bad, really. The rep rigs work better on ships with repping bonus, btw.
Bet they work great on the Revelations Brutix then.
That city is well fortified which has a wall of men instead of brick.
- Lycurgus |
Darknar
Gallente
Ascendant Strategies Inc.
The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2006.11.30 17:23:00 -
[43]
im a gallente armour tanker
im going to train up shild rigging
why
means i dont need to train up shild tanking
means i can fill the holes in my shilds to make my opponent think im shild tanking
my sig is already going to be the size of a moon due to MWD.
i wont need to use cap for armour repping quite so soon.
shild rigs FTW for gallente
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Kagura Nikon
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Posted - 2006.11.30 17:31:00 -
[44]
Originally by: vipeer
Edited by: vipeer on 30/11/2006 16:42:54
Originally by: murder one
Why should armor tankers have to fit one rig just to help reduce the horrible fititng drawbacks of their armor rigs? Why should I have to forgo using armor rigs at all just beacuse their drawbacks are so bad? Shield tankers don't have to do this.
All the rigs are great for shield tankers, as their drawbacks don't actually hurt them in any real fashion. Blaster pilots get screwed the worst as they need both speed and armor and get neither.
After reading about Farjung's testing (i hope the numbers stick) i must say i agree with you. I am very dissapointed in the actual effect a signature radius has on damage dealt by turrets. Me too am a hybrid guns user and i like blasters very much. Well, with these rig drawbacks it really is a big drawback to blaster users. Cutting down their speed makes the ship more subceptible to sniping. A shield and an armor tanker one against the other the shield tanker obviously has a big advantage because the rigged armor tanker is slower on his approach thus giving more time to the shield tanker to kill it. The shield tanker's penalty has ZERO positive effect on the armor tankers damage output. Obviously a great unbalance. Bigger sig radius only means you will get hit harder by CM, torpedoes and citadel torpedos. Any other type of weapon has no effect. Considering that armor tankers do not use missiles there really is no advantage to be capitalized on. CCP needs to fix this imbalance or make the guns score better quality hits (more excellent and very good ) the bigger the sig radius is and vice versa. Now the gun's sig resolution is 400m. If a ship has 500m sig radius there should be a 20% higer chance of scoring a quality shot. This would also mean you would score a LOT of high quality hits on capital ships so their HP should get boosted even more or all guns damage reduced.
I used to really think that bigger sig means better hits and thus more damage. I was unpleasantly surprized when my blasters loaded with AM ammo could not score a hit on a webbed MWDing Battleship 2000m away. BS has 2.5km sig radius at least so i should be scoring 100%. In actual cases i was scoring under 20%
To sum it up: CCP should change the drawback on either shield rigs to something a shiled tanker would actually give a **** about (shield recharge rate, amount, boost, speed, targeting range, sig resolution) or change armor rigs to something an armor tanker does not give a **** about ( like shield boosting, amount, recharge rate )
OR
Make the sig radius size actually count when the quality of the hits is calculated not just for missiles.
it will hep you hit it if its trying to make you miss by high transversal movment. That is quite relevant on a vagabond.. for example or a nanophoon....
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Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2006.11.30 18:44:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 30/11/2006 18:52:04
Originally by: dot me
Edited by: dot me on 30/11/2006 13:27:59
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
EDIT: Here's my "tin foil hat" going on: I'm getting an odd vibe from this game lately, almost as if there are certain things being set up to be a certain way... like shield tanking intended to be better than armor tanking, etc. I don't know. It just feels like everything is stacked so perfectly... *shrug*... probably a delusion.
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH.
so tell me .. is that why you see so many shield tankers in pvp .. right? =)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
i am sorry but i just can't help not crying over your sob feelings. yes you are right .. the devs want you nerfed :D
edit: sorry to burst your bubble dude but yes when you dedicate 7-8 or even more slots to tanking it sorta tends to become a though shell to break. but it does have it's drawbacks .. none that you know of thow since you don't care.
LOL. Yeah. That's exactly why I see so many shield tankers in PVP.
I know the drawbacks. I fly Minmatar too. Joke's on you, buddy.
I love this game. People *****ing and whining about how horrible shield tankers are in PVP, and then when others ***** about their stuff, they tell you "THIS ARE A NTO SOLO GAME NUUUUUUB!!!!! =))))))1`11111ONEONEONEONE".  Well, the grass is always greener, eh?
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Crellion
Art of War
Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.30 18:54:00 -
[46]
People seem to forget that (afaik) rigs and mods stack with the usual penalty. Why use tanking rigs on your Hyperion when they stack with the hardeners???? Use 3 damage rigs so you dont need to use mfsIIs and perhaps you can even drop a gun or two for a couple of NOS... (etc)
Rigs essentially just give you another 3 slots on a BS that you get to decide whther you want to use them as mids or lows...Thank God for the stacking change coming before rigs though... Geddon with 11x HSIIs would have been a bit silly 0_0 (just an example - possible exploits with all ships).
If there is a great advantage for Caldari in this patch is that they can use 3 rigs to replace mids which will allow for a tank + tackling mods thus allowing the first real Caldari solo set ups on ships other than the Crow. I might even blow the dust of my old Beagle now that I will be able to fir a scram without leaving a gaping EM resist hole (again just an example).
Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim. |
Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2006.11.30 19:25:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Gariuys
Originally by: Twilight Moon
Edited by: Twilight Moon on 29/11/2006 15:16:57
So....don't fit armor rigs on Blaster Boats?
Fit damage instead! What do you want a tank for anyway?
Quote:
(whoa who stabbed me in the bum)
Dunno mate. Maybe Verone? Did you forget to pay the ransom?
EHMMMMM damage rigs are stacking nerfed, meaning that if you're already using 2/3 damage mods, the benefit of the damage rig ( which gives half the bonus of a mag field to begin with ) is pretty fecking tiny, dropping 1 mag field for 2 damage rigs... is pretty retarded as well.
Blasterboats got the worst end of this patch. And that's a **** shame. Even though it was expected.
Actualy Blasterboats got an effective HP and effective capacitor boost from the patch.
As combat and ships now last longer the time it takes to close the distance to an enemy ship is now less of a percent of your total HP/Cap.
So when you get to your enemeny, you have a better ratio of HP/cap to their HP/cap than you did before the patch.
This translates to an effective HP boost and an effective capacitor boost. The boost is largre the more time it takes you to close[though closing asap is still the best way to get yourself better] and/or the shorter your range is.
If the battle pre kali lasted 100 seconds, and it took 10 of those seconds to close, you would be given an effective 2% cap boost and 2% hit point boost against ships you had to close to kill.
Autocannons also got a small effective DPS boost[typically less than 2%, the more time you spend reloading the better your boost] for much the same reasons as the blasterboat effective DPS boost, except it is an ROF/reload ratio issue and not a destruction/closing time issue.
Thus the only gun type that didnt get a boost in the patch would be the long range weapons [becuase they benefit from staying away longer and not closing, ergo any closing time benefits hurt them]. Which in small PvP that we are discussing, is pulse lasers.
I leave out rails/beams/artillery because closing time is so large in most engagements of that type that it is typically done with warping and not done by closing and the boosts in real terms largly mean nothing.
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velocoraptor
Gallente
Art of War
Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.12.01 11:37:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Crellion
People seem to forget that (afaik) rigs and mods stack with the usual penalty. Why use tanking rigs on your Hyperion when they stack with the hardeners???? Use 3 damage rigs so you dont need to use mfsIIs and perhaps you can even drop a gun or two for a couple of NOS... (etc)
Rigs essentially just give you another 3 slots on a BS that you get to decide whther you want to use them as mids or lows...Thank God for the stacking change coming before rigs though... Geddon with 11x HSIIs would have been a bit silly 0_0 (just an example - possible exploits with all ships).
If there is a great advantage for Caldari in this patch is that they can use 3 rigs to replace mids which will allow for a tank + tackling mods thus allowing the first real Caldari solo set ups on ships other than the Crow. I might even blow the dust of my old Beagle now that I will be able to fir a scram without leaving a gaping EM resist hole (again just an example).
Yeah, stacking does mean that there's less room for exploit (overpowderededered setups), but you HAVE to agree crell that rigs' penalties are somewhat less severe for "Caldari" than "Gallente"... no?
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dot me
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Posted - 2006.12.01 12:00:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 30/11/2006 18:52:04
Originally by: dot me
Edited by: dot me on 30/11/2006 13:27:59
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
EDIT: Here's my "tin foil hat" going on: I'm getting an odd vibe from this game lately, almost as if there are certain things being set up to be a certain way... like shield tanking intended to be better than armor tanking, etc. I don't know. It just feels like everything is stacked so perfectly... *shrug*... probably a delusion.
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH.
so tell me .. is that why you see so many shield tankers in pvp .. right? =)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
i am sorry but i just can't help not crying over your sob feelings. yes you are right .. the devs want you nerfed :D
edit: sorry to burst your bubble dude but yes when you dedicate 7-8 or even more slots to tanking it sorta tends to become a though shell to break. but it does have it's drawbacks .. none that you know of thow since you don't care.
LOL. Yeah. That's exactly why I see so many shield tankers in PVP.
I know the drawbacks. I fly Minmatar too. Joke's on you, buddy.
I love this game. People *****ing and whining about how horrible shield tankers are in PVP, and then when others ***** about their stuff, they tell you "THIS ARE A NTO SOLO GAME NUUUUUUB!!!!! =))))))1`11111ONEONEONEONE". Well, the grass is always greener, eh?
yes yes. "wipes a tear for you"
but sadly you make no sense buddy. because you see you only think that shield tanking is better then armor tanking, and you also think that everyone is telling you "THIS ARE A NTO SOLO GAME NUUUUUUB!!!!! =))))))1`11111ONEONEONEONE".
let me enlighten you. you see only damage and tanking. while i see 3 things in pvp damage tanking and tackling.
armor users can't bost tank without sacrificing damage, so you fit a low tank and extra high freaking damage with tacling gear.
shield users can't use tacling gear without sacrificing tank, so they fit mean tank and mean damage, but no tacling gear.
you are just ****ed as hell at the fact that if you want to kill him he doesn't need to tackle you, since your ego is doing that for him. buhuhu.
Let me ask you again. IF SHIELD TANKING IS MENT TO BE SO MUCH SO BETTER THEN ARMOUR TANKING why the hell are you flying a blastertron? oh .. yes sorry .. it's cause you're not a noob. my bad. buhuhu
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Sir Bart
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2006.12.01 13:14:00 -
[50]
With armor rigging lvl 4 it's only 6% speed penalty.
You'll move a bit slower but if you fight the sheild tanker, you'll lock first and your EW will hit him first.
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