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Haulzorzz
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Posted - 2006.11.29 15:14:00 -
[1]
So I was taking a look at the various armor rigs and umm yeah, they blow very hard. The bonuses are nice however the -10% speed penalty just sucks. I fly blaster boats and I can't justify borking my speed for increased tank on these things. What gives with this?
On a side note the shield rigs rule big f-ing deal they get a sig penalty thats almost like no penalty at all.
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Twilight Moon
Minmatar Malicious Intentions
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Posted - 2006.11.29 15:16:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Twilight Moon on 29/11/2006 15:16:57 So....don't fit armor rigs on Blaster Boats?
Fit damage instead! What do you want a tank for anyway?
Quote: (whoa who stabbed me in the bum)
Dunno mate. Maybe Verone? Did you forget to pay the ransom?
(Empty Space - Thinking) |
Mephesto Nizal
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Posted - 2006.11.29 15:17:00 -
[3]
you want a tank to not get blown up while approaching the **** ships =]
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Sandra Tseng
THE MISPHIT'S Kurai Komichi
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Posted - 2006.11.29 15:19:00 -
[4]
I agree.
Rigs are for caldari. As are everything else in this game.
_ Killed my sig AGAIN! :p http://www.ninc.org/krubarax/images/2d/verydisco.jpg |
Commander Nikolas
Gallente Arcana Imperii Ltd. Sani Khal'Vecna
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Posted - 2006.11.29 15:23:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Commander Nikolas on 29/11/2006 15:25:40 Alright if you haven't figured this out yet, Tuxford and Ovure had a bet. It was simple... They were betting which one of them could ruin your (and every other Gallente specialized pilot's) Kali day more.
Tuxford came up with the HP increase Ovure decided drones didn't need an HP boost Tuxford designed the Hyperion Ovure came up with the penalty for armor rigs Tuxford countered that by changing the PG on the Hyperion Ovure to top it off at the last moment removed the drone damage mods/rigs
The only real question is: Who won the bet?
One a serious note... If you want to laugh even more check out the penalty on the speed rigs ;). To armor tank you go slower, to go faster you lose armor. This is why the rigged Rohk is a much better blaster platform then Hyp/Mega.
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Vincent Almasy
Gallente The Underground
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Posted - 2006.11.29 15:24:00 -
[6]
gank = No real tank Tank = No real gank
Nothing had yet changed, get over it.
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Haulzorzz
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Posted - 2006.11.29 15:28:00 -
[7]
I can tell you who lost, Gallante did. It's not that I want to use the rigs penalty free, more than I would like one that made sense.
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FawKa
Gallente Old Farts The Phantom Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.11.29 15:30:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Commander Nikolas Edited by: Commander Nikolas on 29/11/2006 15:25:40 Alright if you haven't figured this out yet, Tuxford and Ovure had a bet. It was simple... They were betting which one of them could ruin your (and every other Gallente specialized pilot's) Kali day more.
Tuxford came up with the HP increase Ovure decided drones didn't need an HP boost Tuxford designed the Hyperion Ovure came up with the penalty for armor rigs Tuxford countered that by changing the PG on the Hyperion Ovure to top it off at the last moment removed the drone damage mods/rigs
The only real question is: Who won the bet?
One a serious note... If you want to laugh even more check out the penalty on the speed rigs ;). To armor tank you go slower, to go faster you lose armor. This is why the rigged Rohk is a much better blaster platform then Hyp/Mega.
Okay.. all hate goes to ovure
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iubbuibiubio
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Posted - 2006.11.29 15:35:00 -
[9]
Stop whinging and train armour rigging maybe? 10% reduction in Armor Rig drawbacks per level.
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Haulzorzz
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Posted - 2006.11.29 15:37:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Vincent Almasy gank = No real tank Tank = No real gank
Nothing had yet changed, get over it.
Yes it has, a line of modules was released and while I'm all about variance I didn't even mind the inherent beef that shield tanking got with the hp/cap buff. However now shield tanks can slap rigs on to easily plug holes in thier tank without taking a meaningful penalty at all while armor tanks on the other hand have to take a nasty speed hit in order to accomplish the same thing.
I think these penaltys are reversed in all honesty.
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Haulzorzz
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Posted - 2006.11.29 15:38:00 -
[11]
Originally by: iubbuibiubio Stop whinging and train armour rigging maybe? 10% reduction in Armor Rig drawbacks per level.
F U, I am training Armor rigging and I'll still take a 5% total speed nerf with Rigging V
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Sandra Tseng
THE MISPHIT'S Kurai Komichi
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Posted - 2006.11.29 15:40:00 -
[12]
Let¦s all just train Caldari. Seemes to be the ultimate goal of CCP..
_ Killed my sig AGAIN! :p http://www.ninc.org/krubarax/images/2d/verydisco.jpg |
Haulzorzz
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Posted - 2006.11.29 15:44:00 -
[13]
In fact I won't train armor rigging. The only rigs I see myself using are the cap related ones, even the dmg rigs blow.
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Kagura Nikon
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Posted - 2006.11.29 15:48:00 -
[14]
Its simply perfect. If the penaltiers were miningless why to add them? The idea is DRAWBACKS not simple I ALWAYS USE THIS!
Bloody hell gallente were much less hit than Matar and Amar and are on par with caldari.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.29 15:51:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Haulzorzz In fact I won't train armor rigging. The only rigs I see myself using are the cap related ones, even the dmg rigs blow.
They use no powergrid or CPU. Quite a few of them do stats that no other module does. (e.g. there's an explosion radius one, a warp velocity one).
I reckon they're cool, and add some variety to ships, but are sufficiently well balanced that they don't trigger cookie-cutter uber setups.
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Critta
Black Omega Security The OSS
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Posted - 2006.11.29 16:02:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Critta on 29/11/2006 16:03:15 Ok, I'm not entirely sure what you lot are smoking, but a 10% penalty to your sig radius (especially when it has already been increased with extenders) is actually just as much of a problem as the speed bork that Gallante, Amarr and Minmatar will have to put up with armour rigs (or did you forget that 2 other races also need to fit armour tanks ).
Not only will you be able to lock their ships quicker, they will be easier to hit and will be hit with more damage than before, ofsetting the fact that they have more shield.
Let me finally add that armour tanks have always reduced your speed (what on earth do you think plates do, speed you up?) and you see that the rigs are perfectly in the flavour of what has come before, and in fact aren't that much of a problem.
Finally, if I understand the new rigging skills correctly, each level of the skill reduces your drawback by 1% per level, so if you get the rigging skill to lvl5, you only lose 5% of your speed.
Take a megathron as an example:
125m/s base speed * 1.25 to take into account nav 5 = 156.25 m/s
with 1 armour rig and max rigging skills, you lose 5% of this speed.
156.25 * 0.95 = 148.438 m/s
156.25 - 148.438 = 7.8125 m/s lost.
You're crying over ~8 m/s?????????
Really, find something actually worth whining about if you're going to, please.
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Haulzorzz
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Posted - 2006.11.29 16:08:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Critta
You're crying over ~8 m/s?????????
Really, find something actually worth whining about if you're going to, please.
Thats for 1 rig, and thats with perfect skills. Suppose 3 armor rigs with riggin 4 then your looking at a 30+ m/s reduction in speed compounded when using AB/MWD. Now here is the kicker armor tanking does NOT slow you down it increases your mass which lowers your agility factor. It does however have the side effect of lowering your boost % from AB and MWD.
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Vincent Almasy
Gallente The Underground
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Posted - 2006.11.29 16:22:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Critta Edited by: Critta on 29/11/2006 16:03:15 Ok, I'm not entirely sure what you lot are smoking, but a 10% penalty to your sig radius (especially when it has already been increased with extenders) is actually just as much of a problem as the speed bork that Gallante, Amarr and Minmatar will have to put up with armour rigs (or did you forget that 2 other races also need to fit armour tanks ).
Not only will you be able to lock their ships quicker, they will be easier to hit and will be hit with more damage than before, ofsetting the fact that they have more shield.
Let me finally add that armour tanks have always reduced your speed (what on earth do you think plates do, speed you up?) and you see that the rigs are perfectly in the flavour of what has come before, and in fact aren't that much of a problem.
Finally, if I understand the new rigging skills correctly, each level of the skill reduces your drawback by 1% per level, so if you get the rigging skill to lvl5, you only lose 5% of your speed.
Take a megathron as an example:
125m/s base speed * 1.25 to take into account nav 5 = 156.25 m/s
with 1 armour rig and max rigging skills, you lose 5% of this speed.
156.25 * 0.95 = 148.438 m/s
156.25 - 148.438 = 7.8125 m/s lost.
You're crying over ~8 m/s?????????
Really, find something actually worth whining about if you're going to, please.
~24m/s can be solved by a good nano and also with a nano you get less inersha so ya turn better, but if i remember right, wasn't it a speed rig aswell? There will be changes people will whine.. I feel shameful that the gallente are whining the most right now.
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Critta
Black Omega Security The OSS
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Posted - 2006.11.29 16:27:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Haulzorzz It does however have the side effect of lowering your boost % from AB and MWD.
Hence slowing you down, the OP was talking about flying a blaster boat.... thus a speed mod will be involved, thus plates will slow you down.
If the speed penalty is that much of a problem, train your rigging skills, fit gunnery rigs, whatever.
Ok, you lose too much speed if you fit 3 armour rigs.... guess what, don't fit 3 armour rigs, it's hardly rocket science now is it?
There's plenty of other rigs to put in those slots to make blaster boats ridiculously powerful, you just have to work out what they are ;)
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Dammar
Ephorate
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Posted - 2006.11.29 16:36:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Sandra Tseng I agree.
Rigs are for caldari. As are everything else in this game.
_
It is kinda funny how shield rigs are the ONLY ones with penalties to something the shield user won't really care about. (armor%)
I noticed that right away on the test server a couple weeks ago.
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Almarez
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Posted - 2006.11.29 16:37:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Commander Nikolas Edited by: Commander Nikolas on 29/11/2006 15:25:40 Alright if you haven't figured this out yet, Tuxford and Ovure had a bet. It was simple... They were betting which one of them could ruin your (and every other Gallente specialized pilot's) Kali day more.
Tuxford came up with the HP increase Ovure decided drones didn't need an HP boost Tuxford designed the Hyperion Ovure came up with the penalty for armor rigs Tuxford countered that by changing the PG on the Hyperion Ovure to top it off at the last moment removed the drone damage mods/rigs
The only real question is: Who won the bet?
One a serious note... If you want to laugh even more check out the penalty on the speed rigs ;). To armor tank you go slower, to go faster you lose armor. This is why the rigged Rohk is a much better blaster platform then Hyp/Mega.
Nikolas, I am disgusted at your accusation. They didn't ruin Gallente specialized pilots...they ruined Gallente and Amaar specialized pilots. Come on, reducing T2 crystal damage...they were the only things that made lasers even half way usable for pvp.
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Critta
Black Omega Security The OSS
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Posted - 2006.11.29 16:46:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Critta on 29/11/2006 16:46:54
Originally by: Almarez I am disgusted at your accusation. They didn't ruin Gallente specialized pilots...they ruined Gallente and Amaar specialized pilots. Come on, reducing T2 crystal damage...they were the only things that made lasers even half way usable for pvp.
Right - now you lot are really starting to wind me up a bit....
Did you fail to notice that all the t2 ammo got nerfed, or are you too short sighted to actually look at anything that doesn't involve your own race? I have an Amarr alt, pre-Kali he kicked ass with lasers, generally with t1 crystals a lot of the time, post kali, that hasn't changed, the t2 crystals are still more powerful, just not stupidly overpowered any more.
Originally by: Dammar It is kinda funny how shield rigs are the ONLY ones with penalties to something the shield user won't really care about. (armor%)
I noticed that right away on the test server a couple weeks ago.
Last I checked, the shield rigs did not hit your armour hp (that's the speed rigs if I remember correctly) but in fact effect you signature radius, just like shield extenders do.
Get your facts straight before you come and whine, and actually try and think a bit sometime, you might find it helps ;)
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Razean
Minmatar Agony Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.11.29 16:51:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Haulzorzz
Originally by: Critta
You're crying over ~8 m/s?????????
Really, find something actually worth whining about if you're going to, please.
Thats for 1 rig, and thats with perfect skills. Suppose 3 armor rigs with riggin 4 then your looking at a 30+ m/s reduction in speed compounded when using AB/MWD. Now here is the kicker armor tanking does NOT slow you down it increases your mass which lowers your agility factor. It does however have the side effect of lowering your boost % from AB and MWD.
Armor plates do not slow down your base speed, but your mass absolutely affects your AB/MWD speed, and hence armor plates do indeed decrease your max AB/MWD speed, which is what ultimately matters. Increased mass also affects your acceleration to max speed, with or without your AB/MWD on.
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MrLobster
Cosmic Odyssey Chorus of Dawn
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Posted - 2006.11.29 16:59:00 -
[24]
Fit a couple of armor rigs, and a few inertial stabs in your lows :) ______
Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes |
Grey Area
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.29 17:01:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Sandra Tseng I agree.
Rigs are for caldari. As are everything else in this game.
_
Yeah, sure...that's why our launcher mod rigs increase the CPU demand on said launchers by 10%...bye bye 6 launcher Raven, hello 5 launcher Raven...
But that's as it should be...unfortunately like most Gallente it seems you were expecting something for nothing. ---
I don't mind you disagreeing with me. Just don't say I don't have the SKILLS to comment until you've looked at them. |
Jin Entres
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.11.29 17:01:00 -
[26]
Armor repairing efficiency and cycle time aswell as resistance rigs work great, though, so I don't think we got shafted that bad, really. The rep rigs work better on ships with repping bonus, btw. ---
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Centurin
Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e
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Posted - 2006.11.29 17:03:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Commander Nikolas Edited by: Commander Nikolas on 29/11/2006 15:25:40 Alright if you haven't figured this out yet, Tuxford and Ovure had a bet. It was simple... They were betting which one of them could ruin your (and every other Gallente specialized pilot's) Kali day more.
Tuxford came up with the HP increase Ovure decided drones didn't need an HP boost Tuxford designed the Hyperion Ovure came up with the penalty for armor rigs Tuxford countered that by changing the PG on the Hyperion Ovure to top it off at the last moment removed the drone damage mods/rigs
The only real question is: Who won the bet?
One a serious note... If you want to laugh even more check out the penalty on the speed rigs ;). To armor tank you go slower, to go faster you lose armor. This is why the rigged Rohk is a much better blaster platform then Hyp/Mega.
So funny and yet so sad at the same time.
So everything you've speced in the past year nerfed all at once really hurts. ----------------------------------------------- "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings" - Optimus Prime |
murder one
Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.29 17:04:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Almarez
Originally by: Commander Nikolas Edited by: Commander Nikolas on 29/11/2006 15:25:40 Alright if you haven't figured this out yet, Tuxford and Ovure had a bet. It was simple... They were betting which one of them could ruin your (and every other Gallente specialized pilot's) Kali day more.
Tuxford came up with the HP increase Ovure decided drones didn't need an HP boost Tuxford designed the Hyperion Ovure came up with the penalty for armor rigs Tuxford countered that by changing the PG on the Hyperion Ovure to top it off at the last moment removed the drone damage mods/rigs
The only real question is: Who won the bet?
One a serious note... If you want to laugh even more check out the penalty on the speed rigs ;). To armor tank you go slower, to go faster you lose armor. This is why the rigged Rohk is a much better blaster platform then Hyp/Mega.
Nikolas, I am disgusted at your accusation. They didn't ruin Gallente specialized pilots...they ruined Gallente and Amaar specialized pilots. Come on, reducing T2 crystal damage...they were the only things that made lasers even half way usable for pvp.
they did the same to T2 blaster/rail ammo tho as well. All of it was nerfed but it hurt Amarr/Gallente the most because we depend on DPS the most compared to the ability of the Minmatar and Caldari to tank while firing non-cap weapons.
Because I said so...
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MECTO
Xenobytes Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2006.11.29 17:13:00 -
[29]
Edited by: MECTO on 29/11/2006 17:13:30 yes, shield rigs are awesome
signature penalty is not a thing that u worry about
speed is another story..
It's Great Being Carebear in Kali - aint it?
Originally by: Tuxford In this picture you might think that Gallente totally pwn. Well they're alright
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LUKEC
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.11.29 19:23:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Grey Area
Originally by: Sandra Tseng I agree.
Rigs are for caldari. As are everything else in this game.
_
Yeah, sure...that's why our launcher mod rigs increase the CPU demand on said launchers by 10%...bye bye 6 launcher Raven, hello 5 launcher Raven...
But that's as it should be...unfortunately like most Gallente it seems you were expecting something for nothing.
Ugh... cruise missile from shin ra hits you for 820dmg? Raven has way too much cpu. -------- The BoB model is bad for business. Incidently the BoB model is more suited for a game such as WoW where as the ASCN model more suited for Eve.
McGreedy |
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Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground Rule of Three
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Posted - 2006.11.29 20:18:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 29/11/2006 20:19:45 Look at it this way, fellow Gallente specialized ppl: this is a great time to go out and take a break. I'm going to train for covert ops I think. That should take me about a month to break into a bit, and a bit more to finish specializing in it (all 3 new scanning skills to at least 4).
There's this idea in business: When you make a bad investment, you can do two things. You can hold onto the investment; or you can cut your losses and move on. According to a business professor I once had, the latter is apparently the better strategy. Initially this seems awkward, but if you think about it, it makes a lot of sense.
Since in Eve we don't really "lose" our investments, I guess this means "if what you're doing now isn't working out, try something different".
I'm personally of the opinion that some hard times are ahead for the stuff I've trained. I don't like it. But I don't really have a choice. I like Eve, I have hope for improvement, but I know that if things don't change I'm going to end up FOTMing anyway simply because I like playing the game.
Don't mean this to **** anyone off, I'm just trying to say: "yeah, this might suck, but give it time, and if time doesn't work, give it training."
EDIT: Here's my "tin foil hat" going on: I'm getting an odd vibe from this game lately, almost as if there are certain things being set up to be a certain way... like shield tanking intended to be better than armor tanking, etc. I don't know. It just feels like everything is stacked so perfectly... *shrug*... probably a delusion.
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Commander Nikolas
Gallente Arcana Imperii Ltd. Sani Khal'Vecna
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Posted - 2006.11.30 07:12:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 29/11/2006 20:19:45 Look at it this way, fellow Gallente specialized ppl: this is a great time to go out and take a break. I'm going to train for covert ops I think. That should take me about a month to break into a bit, and a bit more to finish specializing in it (all 3 new scanning skills to at least 4).
There's this idea in business: When you make a bad investment, you can do two things. You can hold onto the investment; or you can cut your losses and move on. According to a business professor I once had, the latter is apparently the better strategy. Initially this seems awkward, but if you think about it, it makes a lot of sense.
Since in Eve we don't really "lose" our investments, I guess this means "if what you're doing now isn't working out, try something different".
I'm personally of the opinion that some hard times are ahead for the stuff I've trained. I don't like it. But I don't really have a choice. I like Eve, I have hope for improvement, but I know that if things don't change I'm going to end up FOTMing anyway simply because I like playing the game.
Don't mean this to **** anyone off, I'm just trying to say: "yeah, this might suck, but give it time, and if time doesn't work, give it training."
EDIT: Here's my "tin foil hat" going on: I'm getting an odd vibe from this game lately, almost as if there are certain things being set up to be a certain way... like shield tanking intended to be better than armor tanking, etc. I don't know. It just feels like everything is stacked so perfectly... *shrug*... probably a delusion.
Or you could just go sit in Jita and run lvl 4's like Tuxford and Ovure. That way game balance wouldn't be an issue, you just sit there popping NPCs never understanding why another races ships/mods/rigs are better then yours :).
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Xendie
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.30 07:18:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Jin Entres Armor repairing efficiency and cycle time aswell as resistance rigs work great, though, so I don't think we got shafted that bad, really. The rep rigs work better on ships with repping bonus, btw.
mmmmm....EOS +those rigs +kladdkaka =yummy
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Matrix Aran
Legio Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.11.30 07:59:00 -
[34]
Hyperion with 2 large armor reps that rep the amount of 4 large reps FTW! And it can still fit neutron IIs ----
Originally by: Wrangler It's a neuralizer.
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Royaldo
KVA Noble Inc.
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Posted - 2006.11.30 08:06:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Xendie
Originally by: Jin Entres Armor repairing efficiency and cycle time aswell as resistance rigs work great, though, so I don't think we got shafted that bad, really. The rep rigs work better on ships with repping bonus, btw.
mmmmm....EOS +those rigs +kladdkaka =yummy
\o/ kladdkaka took me 2 years to understand what it is
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vipeer
Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.30 08:56:00 -
[36]
/What Jim Entres, Xendie and Matrix Aran said.
On top of that: If it's so devastating to your speed to fit armor rigs why not fit a speed rig to offset the negative effects? You will sacrifice 5% armor if you bother to train the skill up to lvl 5 and the resulting ship will actually be faster, have more resists / armor HP / rep amount or faster rep cycle.
Another approach is to play a chicken and act like you're trying to run away and the targets will come to you. No need for uber speed there m8. Of course if you're a pirate or are always seeking for pvp that might not be the best tactic. You know for yourself how you like to play.
P.s. If the armor rigs blow very hard like you say in your OP dont use them.
Oh, what penalty would you propose they had?
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murder one
Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.30 09:32:00 -
[37]
Originally by: vipeer /What Jim Entres, Xendie and Matrix Aran said.
On top of that: If it's so devastating to your speed to fit armor rigs why not fit a speed rig to offset the negative effects? You will sacrifice 5% armor if you bother to train the skill up to lvl 5 and the resulting ship will actually be faster, have more resists / armor HP / rep amount or faster rep cycle.
Another approach is to play a chicken and act like you're trying to run away and the targets will come to you. No need for uber speed there m8. Of course if you're a pirate or are always seeking for pvp that might not be the best tactic. You know for yourself how you like to play.
P.s. If the armor rigs blow very hard like you say in your OP dont use them.
Oh, what penalty would you propose they had?
Why should armor tankers have to fit one rig just to help reduce the horrible fititng drawbacks of their armor rigs? Why should I have to forgo using armor rigs at all just beacuse their drawbacks are so bad? Shield tankers don't have to do this.
All the rigs are great for shield tankers, as their drawbacks don't actually hurt them in any real fashion. Blaster pilots get screwed the worst as they need both speed and armor and get neither.
Because I said so...
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.30 10:20:00 -
[38]
Signature radius _is_ a significant penalty. There's also no module or rig that will counteract it, so you're correct, shield tankers don't fit one.
Yes, in some situations the impact is reduced, but the same can be said for any given penalty.
It seems to be that the 'obvious' rig combos have been set up so they're less attractive.
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Gariuys
Evil Strangers Inc.
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Posted - 2006.11.30 10:30:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Twilight Moon Edited by: Twilight Moon on 29/11/2006 15:16:57 So....don't fit armor rigs on Blaster Boats?
Fit damage instead! What do you want a tank for anyway?
Quote: (whoa who stabbed me in the bum)
Dunno mate. Maybe Verone? Did you forget to pay the ransom?
EHMMMMM damage rigs are stacking nerfed, meaning that if you're already using 2/3 damage mods, the benefit of the damage rig ( which gives half the bonus of a mag field to begin with ) is pretty fecking tiny, dropping 1 mag field for 2 damage rigs... is pretty retarded as well.
Blasterboats got the worst end of this patch. And that's a **** shame. Even though it was expected.
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dot me
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Posted - 2006.11.30 13:08:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
EDIT: Here's my "tin foil hat" going on: I'm getting an odd vibe from this game lately, almost as if there are certain things being set up to be a certain way... like shield tanking intended to be better than armor tanking, etc. I don't know. It just feels like everything is stacked so perfectly... *shrug*... probably a delusion.
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH. so tell me .. is that why you see so many shield tankers in pvp .. right? =))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) i am sorry but i just can't help not crying over your sob feelings. yes you are right .. the devs want you nerfed :D
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vipeer
Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.30 16:41:00 -
[41]
Edited by: vipeer on 30/11/2006 16:42:54
Originally by: murder one
Why should armor tankers have to fit one rig just to help reduce the horrible fititng drawbacks of their armor rigs? Why should I have to forgo using armor rigs at all just beacuse their drawbacks are so bad? Shield tankers don't have to do this.
All the rigs are great for shield tankers, as their drawbacks don't actually hurt them in any real fashion. Blaster pilots get screwed the worst as they need both speed and armor and get neither.
After reading about Farjung's testing (i hope the numbers stick) i must say i agree with you. I am very dissapointed in the actual effect a signature radius has on damage dealt by turrets. Me too am a hybrid guns user and i like blasters very much. Well, with these rig drawbacks it really is a big drawback to blaster users. Cutting down their speed makes the ship more subceptible to sniping. A shield and an armor tanker one against the other the shield tanker obviously has a big advantage because the rigged armor tanker is slower on his approach thus giving more time to the shield tanker to kill it. The shield tanker's penalty has ZERO positive effect on the armor tankers damage output. Obviously a great unbalance. Bigger sig radius only means you will get hit harder by CM, torpedoes and citadel torpedos. Any other type of weapon has no effect. Considering that armor tankers do not use missiles there really is no advantage to be capitalized on. CCP needs to fix this imbalance or make the guns score better quality hits (more excellent and very good ) the bigger the sig radius is and vice versa. Now the gun's sig resolution is 400m. If a ship has 500m sig radius there should be a 20% higer chance of scoring a quality shot. This would also mean you would score a LOT of high quality hits on capital ships so their HP should get boosted even more or all guns damage reduced. I used to really think that bigger sig means better hits and thus more damage. I was unpleasantly surprized when my blasters loaded with AM ammo could not score a hit on a webbed MWDing Battleship 2000m away. BS has 2.5km sig radius at least so i should be scoring 100%. In actual cases i was scoring under 20%
To sum it up: CCP should change the drawback on either shield rigs to something a shiled tanker would actually give a **** about (shield recharge rate, amount, boost, speed, targeting range, sig resolution) or change armor rigs to something an armor tanker does not give a **** about ( like shield boosting, amount, recharge rate ) OR Make the sig radius size actually count when the quality of the hits is calculated not just for missiles.
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Manus Ghostface
Caldari Quantum Industries Prime Orbital Systems
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Posted - 2006.11.30 16:48:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Jin Entres Armor repairing efficiency and cycle time aswell as resistance rigs work great, though, so I don't think we got shafted that bad, really. The rep rigs work better on ships with repping bonus, btw.
Bet they work great on the Revelations Brutix then.
That city is well fortified which has a wall of men instead of brick. - Lycurgus |
Darknar
Gallente Ascendant Strategies Inc. The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2006.11.30 17:23:00 -
[43]
im a gallente armour tanker
im going to train up shild rigging
why
means i dont need to train up shild tanking
means i can fill the holes in my shilds to make my opponent think im shild tanking
my sig is already going to be the size of a moon due to MWD.
i wont need to use cap for armour repping quite so soon.
shild rigs FTW for gallente
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Kagura Nikon
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Posted - 2006.11.30 17:31:00 -
[44]
Originally by: vipeer Edited by: vipeer on 30/11/2006 16:42:54
Originally by: murder one
Why should armor tankers have to fit one rig just to help reduce the horrible fititng drawbacks of their armor rigs? Why should I have to forgo using armor rigs at all just beacuse their drawbacks are so bad? Shield tankers don't have to do this.
All the rigs are great for shield tankers, as their drawbacks don't actually hurt them in any real fashion. Blaster pilots get screwed the worst as they need both speed and armor and get neither.
After reading about Farjung's testing (i hope the numbers stick) i must say i agree with you. I am very dissapointed in the actual effect a signature radius has on damage dealt by turrets. Me too am a hybrid guns user and i like blasters very much. Well, with these rig drawbacks it really is a big drawback to blaster users. Cutting down their speed makes the ship more subceptible to sniping. A shield and an armor tanker one against the other the shield tanker obviously has a big advantage because the rigged armor tanker is slower on his approach thus giving more time to the shield tanker to kill it. The shield tanker's penalty has ZERO positive effect on the armor tankers damage output. Obviously a great unbalance. Bigger sig radius only means you will get hit harder by CM, torpedoes and citadel torpedos. Any other type of weapon has no effect. Considering that armor tankers do not use missiles there really is no advantage to be capitalized on. CCP needs to fix this imbalance or make the guns score better quality hits (more excellent and very good ) the bigger the sig radius is and vice versa. Now the gun's sig resolution is 400m. If a ship has 500m sig radius there should be a 20% higer chance of scoring a quality shot. This would also mean you would score a LOT of high quality hits on capital ships so their HP should get boosted even more or all guns damage reduced. I used to really think that bigger sig means better hits and thus more damage. I was unpleasantly surprized when my blasters loaded with AM ammo could not score a hit on a webbed MWDing Battleship 2000m away. BS has 2.5km sig radius at least so i should be scoring 100%. In actual cases i was scoring under 20%
To sum it up: CCP should change the drawback on either shield rigs to something a shiled tanker would actually give a **** about (shield recharge rate, amount, boost, speed, targeting range, sig resolution) or change armor rigs to something an armor tanker does not give a **** about ( like shield boosting, amount, recharge rate ) OR Make the sig radius size actually count when the quality of the hits is calculated not just for missiles.
it will hep you hit it if its trying to make you miss by high transversal movment. That is quite relevant on a vagabond.. for example or a nanophoon....
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Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground Rule of Three
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Posted - 2006.11.30 18:44:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 30/11/2006 18:52:04
Originally by: dot me Edited by: dot me on 30/11/2006 13:27:59
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
EDIT: Here's my "tin foil hat" going on: I'm getting an odd vibe from this game lately, almost as if there are certain things being set up to be a certain way... like shield tanking intended to be better than armor tanking, etc. I don't know. It just feels like everything is stacked so perfectly... *shrug*... probably a delusion.
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH. so tell me .. is that why you see so many shield tankers in pvp .. right? =))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) i am sorry but i just can't help not crying over your sob feelings. yes you are right .. the devs want you nerfed :D
edit: sorry to burst your bubble dude but yes when you dedicate 7-8 or even more slots to tanking it sorta tends to become a though shell to break. but it does have it's drawbacks .. none that you know of thow since you don't care.
LOL. Yeah. That's exactly why I see so many shield tankers in PVP.
I know the drawbacks. I fly Minmatar too. Joke's on you, buddy.
I love this game. People *****ing and whining about how horrible shield tankers are in PVP, and then when others ***** about their stuff, they tell you "THIS ARE A NTO SOLO GAME NUUUUUUB!!!!! =))))))1`11111ONEONEONEONE". Well, the grass is always greener, eh?
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Crellion
Art of War Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.30 18:54:00 -
[46]
People seem to forget that (afaik) rigs and mods stack with the usual penalty. Why use tanking rigs on your Hyperion when they stack with the hardeners???? Use 3 damage rigs so you dont need to use mfsIIs and perhaps you can even drop a gun or two for a couple of NOS... (etc)
Rigs essentially just give you another 3 slots on a BS that you get to decide whther you want to use them as mids or lows...Thank God for the stacking change coming before rigs though... Geddon with 11x HSIIs would have been a bit silly 0_0 (just an example - possible exploits with all ships).
If there is a great advantage for Caldari in this patch is that they can use 3 rigs to replace mids which will allow for a tank + tackling mods thus allowing the first real Caldari solo set ups on ships other than the Crow. I might even blow the dust of my old Beagle now that I will be able to fir a scram without leaving a gaping EM resist hole (again just an example). Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim. |
Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2006.11.30 19:25:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Gariuys
Originally by: Twilight Moon Edited by: Twilight Moon on 29/11/2006 15:16:57 So....don't fit armor rigs on Blaster Boats?
Fit damage instead! What do you want a tank for anyway?
Quote: (whoa who stabbed me in the bum)
Dunno mate. Maybe Verone? Did you forget to pay the ransom?
EHMMMMM damage rigs are stacking nerfed, meaning that if you're already using 2/3 damage mods, the benefit of the damage rig ( which gives half the bonus of a mag field to begin with ) is pretty fecking tiny, dropping 1 mag field for 2 damage rigs... is pretty retarded as well.
Blasterboats got the worst end of this patch. And that's a **** shame. Even though it was expected.
Actualy Blasterboats got an effective HP and effective capacitor boost from the patch.
As combat and ships now last longer the time it takes to close the distance to an enemy ship is now less of a percent of your total HP/Cap.
So when you get to your enemeny, you have a better ratio of HP/cap to their HP/cap than you did before the patch.
This translates to an effective HP boost and an effective capacitor boost. The boost is largre the more time it takes you to close[though closing asap is still the best way to get yourself better] and/or the shorter your range is.
If the battle pre kali lasted 100 seconds, and it took 10 of those seconds to close, you would be given an effective 2% cap boost and 2% hit point boost against ships you had to close to kill.
Autocannons also got a small effective DPS boost[typically less than 2%, the more time you spend reloading the better your boost] for much the same reasons as the blasterboat effective DPS boost, except it is an ROF/reload ratio issue and not a destruction/closing time issue.
Thus the only gun type that didnt get a boost in the patch would be the long range weapons [becuase they benefit from staying away longer and not closing, ergo any closing time benefits hurt them]. Which in small PvP that we are discussing, is pulse lasers.
I leave out rails/beams/artillery because closing time is so large in most engagements of that type that it is typically done with warping and not done by closing and the boosts in real terms largly mean nothing.
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velocoraptor
Gallente Art of War Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.12.01 11:37:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Crellion People seem to forget that (afaik) rigs and mods stack with the usual penalty. Why use tanking rigs on your Hyperion when they stack with the hardeners???? Use 3 damage rigs so you dont need to use mfsIIs and perhaps you can even drop a gun or two for a couple of NOS... (etc)
Rigs essentially just give you another 3 slots on a BS that you get to decide whther you want to use them as mids or lows...Thank God for the stacking change coming before rigs though... Geddon with 11x HSIIs would have been a bit silly 0_0 (just an example - possible exploits with all ships).
If there is a great advantage for Caldari in this patch is that they can use 3 rigs to replace mids which will allow for a tank + tackling mods thus allowing the first real Caldari solo set ups on ships other than the Crow. I might even blow the dust of my old Beagle now that I will be able to fir a scram without leaving a gaping EM resist hole (again just an example).
Yeah, stacking does mean that there's less room for exploit (overpowderededered setups), but you HAVE to agree crell that rigs' penalties are somewhat less severe for "Caldari" than "Gallente"... no?
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dot me
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Posted - 2006.12.01 12:00:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 30/11/2006 18:52:04
Originally by: dot me Edited by: dot me on 30/11/2006 13:27:59
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
EDIT: Here's my "tin foil hat" going on: I'm getting an odd vibe from this game lately, almost as if there are certain things being set up to be a certain way... like shield tanking intended to be better than armor tanking, etc. I don't know. It just feels like everything is stacked so perfectly... *shrug*... probably a delusion.
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH. so tell me .. is that why you see so many shield tankers in pvp .. right? =))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) i am sorry but i just can't help not crying over your sob feelings. yes you are right .. the devs want you nerfed :D
edit: sorry to burst your bubble dude but yes when you dedicate 7-8 or even more slots to tanking it sorta tends to become a though shell to break. but it does have it's drawbacks .. none that you know of thow since you don't care.
LOL. Yeah. That's exactly why I see so many shield tankers in PVP.
I know the drawbacks. I fly Minmatar too. Joke's on you, buddy.
I love this game. People *****ing and whining about how horrible shield tankers are in PVP, and then when others ***** about their stuff, they tell you "THIS ARE A NTO SOLO GAME NUUUUUUB!!!!! =))))))1`11111ONEONEONEONE". Well, the grass is always greener, eh?
yes yes. "wipes a tear for you" but sadly you make no sense buddy. because you see you only think that shield tanking is better then armor tanking, and you also think that everyone is telling you "THIS ARE A NTO SOLO GAME NUUUUUUB!!!!! =))))))1`11111ONEONEONEONE".
let me enlighten you. you see only damage and tanking. while i see 3 things in pvp damage tanking and tackling. armor users can't bost tank without sacrificing damage, so you fit a low tank and extra high freaking damage with tacling gear. shield users can't use tacling gear without sacrificing tank, so they fit mean tank and mean damage, but no tacling gear.
you are just ****ed as hell at the fact that if you want to kill him he doesn't need to tackle you, since your ego is doing that for him. buhuhu.
Let me ask you again. IF SHIELD TANKING IS MENT TO BE SO MUCH SO BETTER THEN ARMOUR TANKING why the hell are you flying a blastertron? oh .. yes sorry .. it's cause you're not a noob. my bad. buhuhu
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Sir Bart
Vendetta Underground Rule of Three
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Posted - 2006.12.01 13:14:00 -
[50]
With armor rigging lvl 4 it's only 6% speed penalty.
You'll move a bit slower but if you fight the sheild tanker, you'll lock first and your EW will hit him first.
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