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KIAEddZ
Caldari KIA Corp
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Posted - 2006.11.29 15:54:00 -
[1]
Edited by: KIAEddZ on 29/11/2006 16:06:20 Is this actually going to be finacially viable.....?
The investment in the datacores is huge, even if you get them from your rp agent... 1500 points for a Minmitar Starship Engineering for example. (that is going to equate to at minimum 20 mill a pop even after the market really settles down in a few weeks)
I need 8 of those to have a go at producing a Vaga/Munin, thats 160 mill invest. PLus I will need 8 Mechanical Engineering, probs gonna be at least half again.... so 240 invested b4 you even start.
Even if you get your chance down to 1 in 4..... you would need a 5 run bpc (60-80 mill per build as they are pretty innefiecient BPCs) you are looking at no real profits over buying those ships at the current 200+ mill market prices.
I hope CCP have done thier usual and released the feature pre nerfed, if not then basically it will not effect the T2 ship market at all.
Anyone have a differing opinion on this? If so please post, be interested if anyone sees a lighter side to it, and believes it may end up being the T2 solution it was touted as.
KIA EVE Home
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James Snowscoran
Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.29 16:06:00 -
[2]
It does indeed look prenerfed to me.
Essentially, I think the fundamental problem is about the low runs on the bpcs. Lowrun bpcs isn't going to 'provide (...) a way to break into the Tech Level II business, providing market competition' in any meaningful way. The primary use will probably be 0.0 self-sufficiency, which is okay, but apparently not the primary point behind the feature. -----
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Drexciyian
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2006.11.29 16:24:00 -
[3]
Dont get why it needs a t2 bpc, yes i understand why but it means the peope who own the BPO can still hold a monopoly and freeze people out.
Maybe reverse engineer from the modules/ships themselfs
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Aziza
Gallente Immobiliare
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Posted - 2006.11.29 16:51:00 -
[4]
Originally by: KIAEddZ Edited by: KIAEddZ on 29/11/2006 16:06:20 Is this actually going to be finacially viable.....?
The investment in the datacores is huge, even if you get them from your rp agent... 1500 points for a Minmitar Starship Engineering for example. (that is going to equate to at minimum 20 mill a pop even after the market really settles down in a few weeks)
Not with current datacores costs. I can get around 600RP in <insert> Starship Engineering per day from 1 agent. It's 2.5 days per 1 datacore. I won't sell it below 10-15 mil isk per datacore.
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.29 16:52:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Drexciyian Dont get why it needs a t2 bpc, yes i understand why but it means the peope who own the BPO can still hold a monopoly and freeze people out.
Maybe reverse engineer from the modules/ships themselfs
It's T1 bpcs, not T2. ¼_¼.
Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Jaguar Dragon
Blood Association of Dragons
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Posted - 2006.11.29 18:18:00 -
[6]
with no invention slots in mobile labs,, at least at this moment and in safe space,, inventions is dead dead dead dead. you can't even get a lab slot for ME. you add all the new players who will be getting into inventions,,inventions slots will become just like the ME slots NOT AVALABLE.so my pos in safe space is only good for mobile labs ME/PE/ copy.. i'm spending BILLIONS for this..and assembly arrays,, there is a hugh amount of npc factories around..and the cost of the new probes,, it will cost more isk in luanching probes than what a t2 bpo holder sells his t2 stuff for,, depending on ship class a small t2 frig,, helios costs a t2 builder 2.3 million... it will cost me more than that in probes just to find SOME deadspace stuff to get SOME stuff needed to just invent
this is so wrong,, its just another nerf for us in empire.. |
solidshot
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2006.11.29 18:21:00 -
[7]
From what i've seen invention will suck, and t2 prices wont change at all, in fact they may even go up due to the extra demand on t2 components which bound to be used as an excuse to fleece everyone
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Centurin
Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e
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Posted - 2006.11.29 18:22:00 -
[8]
Invention was never meant to be useful. They just threw it in to shut the t2 market whiners up (however, it's a legitimate complaint). It's unfortunate, but expected. ----------------------------------------------- "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings" - Optimus Prime |
Lunadi
Minmatar Solar Trade
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Posted - 2006.11.29 18:30:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Lunadi on 29/11/2006 18:31:45
Originally by: Centurin Invention was never meant to be useful. They just threw it in to shut the t2 market whiners up (however, it's a legitimate complaint). It's unfortunate, but expected.
Don't think so... 1) there is no need to shut the t2 market whiners (not so many of them anyway) 2) afaik the idea is still to have limited t2 manufacturers, and thus have much higher prices on t2 stuff. What would be the point of t2 if it would be as easily accessible as t1? Invention is not for destroying that balance. 3) imho invention is to make research path more useful. Is it well designed atm? Well... now the changes are on TQ, and we just have to wait to see what will come out...
-------- hate my spelling? go play SCRABBLE! |
Matori Kar
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Posted - 2006.11.29 18:34:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Lunadi Edited by: Lunadi on 29/11/2006 18:31:45
Originally by: Centurin Invention was never meant to be useful. They just threw it in to shut the t2 market whiners up (however, it's a legitimate complaint). It's unfortunate, but expected.
Don't think so... 1) there is no need to shut the t2 market whiners (not so many of them anyway) 2) afaik the idea is still to have limited t2 manufacturers, and thus have much higher prices on t2 stuff. What would be the point of t2 if it would be as easily accessible as t1? Invention is not for destroying that balance. 3) imho invention is to make research path more useful. Is it well designed atm? Well... now the changes are on TQ, and we just have to wait to see what will come out...
If you hadn't noticed, T2 is WHAT is being used as a base for balance and not T1....at least two dev quotes about this already... Caldari: Don't have to worry about transversal, falloff/optimal, cap, tracking, how your damage type is being tanked,ship speed, the direction you are moving... etc. Easy Mode w00t!! |
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Xeliya
Dark-Rising Fallen Souls
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Posted - 2006.11.29 18:36:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Xeliya on 29/11/2006 18:37:26 /agreed
When I got a few data cores last night I almost cried at how badly this was planned, unless I am going to get a 100 run BPC of Cruise Missiles Launcher 2. It will cost me 18 days worth of RP with lv4 Rocket Science and the best agent + countless other data cores for one try. I hope CCP changes it soon at this was one thing I was really looking forward too ----------
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Victor Valka
Caldari Archon Industries
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Posted - 2006.11.29 18:45:00 -
[12]
Aren't datacores available through miniprofessions?
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Karazaan
Rakyra
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Posted - 2006.11.29 18:50:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Karazaan on 29/11/2006 18:51:07 And nobody seen what kind of ME/PE the invented copy will have...
It is'nt going to be financially viable until tech 3.
[or maybe for HAC...] |
Valrandir
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.11.29 18:53:00 -
[14]
DataCores are in no way going to cost this much. If someone don't want to sell his for less then 15mil each, then fine, he won't sell them at all since many competitors will sell for a lot less.
600RP per agent, per day is a good average. It would take 3 days for one datacore, I can't see them going for much more then 2mil each once the market stabilize.
So this take the OP estimate of 240mil down to a mere 24mil. Maybe I should not even bother replying to posts like this.
-------------------------------- This has surpassed the Yarrdware specification and has been dubbed Uberware.
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Xeliya
Dark-Rising Fallen Souls
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Posted - 2006.11.29 18:57:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Xeliya on 29/11/2006 18:57:59
Originally by: Valrandir 600RP per agent, per day is a good average. It would take 3 days for one datacore, I can't see them going for much more then 2mil each once the market stabilize.
I would like to know how you get 600RP a day. I get 86.2 with lv4 and a standing above 8 with the best agent I can use, never seen any one over 150 per day. You can add 50% of my RP for a starship engineering job or cut it in half for normal jobs but you can't get much better then going up one more lv in your field which will add 10-20 more rp per day. ----------
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Ishmael Hansen
No Quarter.
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Posted - 2006.11.29 19:20:00 -
[16]
Starship field gives 3x more rp's then the rest of fields, my highest quality lvl 4 gives me 257 with my skills. There are not that many agents giving that many rp's. So that's 514 rp's per day (doing missions), it can easily reach 600 at lvl 5 skills , on the other hand my Mechanical engineering lvl 4 agent gives me a total of 37 rp's per day, I need 4000 for 8 datacores, do the math.
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Valrandir
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.11.29 19:22:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Valrandir on 29/11/2006 19:23:03 Edited by: Valrandir on 29/11/2006 19:22:51
Originally by: Xeliya Edited by: Xeliya on 29/11/2006 18:57:59
Originally by: Valrandir 600RP per agent, per day is a good average. It would take 3 days for one datacore, I can't see them going for much more then 2mil each once the market stabilize.
I would like to know how you get 600RP a day. I get 86.2 with lv4 and a standing above 8 with the best agent I can use, never seen any one over 150 per day. You can add 50% of my RP for a starship engineering job or cut it in half for normal jobs but you can't get much better then going up one more lv in your field which will add 10-20 more rp per day.
- Starship Engineering agents give more RP - Use a quality 20 level 4 research agent - Use maxed out social skills, the Negociation affect RP - Boost your standings to boost the effective quality of the agent - Run his daily mission to double the daily RP - Train Research Project Management and have 5 to 6 research agent working for you.
Edit: - Train your science skills
-------------------------------- This has surpassed the Yarrdware specification and has been dubbed Uberware.
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James Demacek
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Posted - 2006.11.29 19:25:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Xeliya Edited by: Xeliya on 29/11/2006 18:57:59
Originally by: Valrandir 600RP per agent, per day is a good average. It would take 3 days for one datacore, I can't see them going for much more then 2mil each once the market stabilize.
I would like to know how you get 600RP a day. I get 86.2 with lv4 and a standing above 8 with the best agent I can use, never seen any one over 150 per day. You can add 50% of my RP for a starship engineering job or cut it in half for normal jobs but you can't get much better then going up one more lv in your field which will add 10-20 more rp per day.
I get, from four seperate agents, the following amounts of RP per day:
247, 192, 193, 253.
For your information, please note that your skill in the field you are researching in a multiplier.
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Califax Oman
Mining Bytes Inc.
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Posted - 2006.11.29 19:27:00 -
[19]
I was very much looking forward to the T2 invention feature. I understand that currently the market is all kinds of fubar till prices come back down from the roof but to me invention never was going to be a tool to break into the indy market game. I just want to be able to fit a rack of T2 heavy launchers, or maybe a few T2 cruise launchers without selling my first born child on escrow (err contracts now i guess). For the average corp I would think being able to make some of the big T2 guns without paying 14 mil each for them would be awsome. Is this not possible with inventions? Or will the price of the extra stuff you need be too high to even compete on that lvl? http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m283/Mimic-G/Califax-Final.jpg
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Ishmael Hansen
No Quarter.
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Posted - 2006.11.29 20:21:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Califax Oman
I was very much looking forward to the T2 invention feature. I understand that currently the market is all kinds of fubar till prices come back down from the roof but to me invention never was going to be a tool to break into the indy market game. I just want to be able to fit a rack of T2 heavy launchers, or maybe a few T2 cruise launchers without selling my first born child on escrow (err contracts now i guess). For the average corp I would think being able to make some of the big T2 guns without paying 14 mil each for them would be awsome. Is this not possible with inventions? Or will the price of the extra stuff you need be too high to even compete on that lvl?
No that will not be possible, you have to sell you first born child to get the components for invention, then if you get unlucky the batch will not work.
You will get faster isk for tech 2 large guns and hacs by mining veld in an ibis with a civ mining laser.
Tech 2 lobby won again. Kudos
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Califax Oman
Mining Bytes Inc.
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Posted - 2006.11.29 20:28:00 -
[21]
Well doesn't that suck Best get to making more childrens to auction off then
Hey you No Quarter guys are not leaving Syndicate are you? I was gonna invent more stuff to pew pew you with :p http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m283/Mimic-G/Califax-Final.jpg
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KIAEddZ
Caldari KIA Corp
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Posted - 2006.11.29 22:50:00 -
[22]
I'm not seeing many positive posts here :(
KIA EVE Home
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kahle
Paralex Research
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Posted - 2006.11.29 23:18:00 -
[23]
Originally by: KIAEddZ I'm not seeing many positive posts here :(
a brand new game mechanic, not even a day old. i'm sure this is exactly how it will stay
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Risien Drogonne
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Posted - 2006.11.29 23:31:00 -
[24]
Originally by: solidshot
From what i've seen invention will suck, and t2 prices wont change at all, in fact they may even go up due to the extra demand on t2 components which bound to be used as an excuse to fleece everyone
That would be the one thing that would make me quit EVE for another MMORPG. I'm already tired of paying 10 million isk for a cruiser missile launcher. I'd rather play a game where I don't have to farm for 20 hours to PvP for 1 hour.
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Ishmael Hansen
No Quarter.
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Posted - 2006.11.30 01:01:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Risien Drogonne
Originally by: solidshot
From what i've seen invention will suck, and t2 prices wont change at all, in fact they may even go up due to the extra demand on t2 components which bound to be used as an excuse to fleece everyone
That would be the one thing that would make me quit EVE for another MMORPG. I'm already tired of paying 10 million isk for a cruiser missile launcher. I'd rather play a game where I don't have to farm for 20 hours to PvP for 1 hour.
Yeah, for 2 years that every patch that comes out I pray for r&d to be changed. Many been talked about it, before Shiva (Exodus) ccp developed agent offers, that were suposed to go to r&d agents (from some dev blog), but never saw day light and went to regular agents instead. Patch after patch ccp been delaying a fix, tech 2 market is fubered, 17m for a large gun or 250m for something that costs 17m to make is not fair, it would be if you had to "invent" it, not had some luck in a ticked, which seems to be borked also as they tend to go to the same "random" player.
But seems that the tech 2 lobby is even more powerfull then the inty one, for every post tha reaches eve-o they come out with their forum warriors giving speeches about economy, demand and offer and such, and that they have to work for the isk. No they don't, they got lucky in a draw, with the isk earned they buy GTC's for industry alts and such, and rip us out. (yeah, I know, some tech 2 bpos don't give as much isk as Hac's, etc)
With invention I was hoping for a fix, well actually I wasn't, as I stated in ships and modules threads, if ccp hadn't nerfed the drake it would fix the cerb/NH market. But was actually hoping to be able to try and "invent" a tech 2 cruiser and his modules, but as it stands I need an army of alts doing research to get the needed datacores, which will only benefit people with plenty of alts doing that already (that are the same with the tech 2 bpos).
Anyway, at least I hope it fixes lag, more alts = more isk in ccp pocket = more nodes
I'm truly sad and for the first time thinking on leaving this game :(
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Bigoleed
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Posted - 2006.11.30 01:23:00 -
[26]
T2 Market is crap - Seed T2 BPOs again - heavily - and let us invent T3. Seriously.
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Ishmael Hansen
No Quarter.
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Posted - 2006.11.30 01:30:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Bigoleed T2 Market is crap - Seed T2 BPOs again - heavily - and let us invent T3. Seriously.
Wont work, when the already tech 2 owners will wave 60b for the new bpos everyone will sell and they will end up in the same hands.
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Bigoleed
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Posted - 2006.11.30 01:40:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Bigoleed on 30/11/2006 01:41:03 Note *heavily - meaning anyone who actually wanted to spend the effort T2 manufacturing would be able to get a stake in it.
Right now I am pretty effin ****ed off and was looking very forward in being able to actually become a manufacturer rather than reselling T2.
They need to seriously consider this T2 mess. I'm hot over a long awaited and overdue half arsed fix...and thinking about canceling my accounts as well.
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Miss Overlord
Gallente Ferrum Pugnus
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Posted - 2006.11.30 01:45:00 -
[29]
cant u get datacores from the hidden plexes in high low and 0.0 sec anyway ?
These posts represent my personal views and not those of my corp or alliance. These do not reflect offical alliance or corp views
This is a disclaimer |
Caldan Tarus
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Posted - 2006.11.30 01:45:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Valrandir Edited by: Valrandir on 29/11/2006 19:23:03 Edited by: Valrandir on 29/11/2006 19:22:51
Originally by: Xeliya Edited by: Xeliya on 29/11/2006 18:57:59
Originally by: Valrandir 600RP per agent, per day is a good average. It would take 3 days for one datacore, I can't see them going for much more then 2mil each once the market stabilize.
I would like to know how you get 600RP a day. I get 86.2 with lv4 and a standing above 8 with the best agent I can use, never seen any one over 150 per day. You can add 50% of my RP for a starship engineering job or cut it in half for normal jobs but you can't get much better then going up one more lv in your field which will add 10-20 more rp per day.
- Starship Engineering agents give more RP - Use a quality 20 level 4 research agent - Use maxed out social skills, the Negociation affect RP - Boost your standings to boost the effective quality of the agent - Run his daily mission to double the daily RP - Train Research Project Management and have 5 to 6 research agent working for you.
Edit: - Train your science skills
And after all that sell your datacores for 2 mil as Valrandir says ...... |
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