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Ivan Grozny	Posted - 2006.11.29 16:21:00 - [1] Edited by: Ivan Grozny on 29/11/2006 16:22:25 -50% of targeting range, -50% of scan resolution. This is make this modules useless and change balance of the game dramatically, giving advantage to pirats! No more solo Lvl4. No more NPCing in 0.0. Can anyone show me positive effect of such change? Thanks
Haulzorzz	Posted - 2006.11.29 16:23:00 - [2] Yes those people who want to fight and be able to be 100% immune to the dangers of low sec no longer have that luxury. EvE is a PVP game if you don't recognize and accept the fact that you will get into battles and you will lose ships, perhaps this isn't the game for you.
Fredbob 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.11.29 16:24:00 - [3] There have been loooads of discussions about the change, the module, it's balancing and the effects of the change Personally I'm over the moon at the change ___________ ~Fredbob~
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.29 16:24:00 - [4] Edited by: James Lyrus on 29/11/2006 16:27:01 Funny. I've been doing solo ratting in 0.0 and L4 missions for nearly 2 years now, and I've never fit a stab for it. How about you fit a lowslot mod on your ship that actually helps it's combat ability? PDS, Damage control, Sensor backup (if you get jammed) another BCS, perhaps a nanofiber. The positive effects of the change: No more unkillable stabbabonds pirating. No more pre-aligned snipers with 5 WCS, popping everything coming through a gate. No more 'combat' fits that are built to run away.
Haizum Gallente Shadows of the Dead Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.29 16:25:00 - [5] If you fit out to travel, you travel. Fit out to PvP, you fight. It means that you decide beforehand if you run or fight, and means that they'll be no more of the stabbed-up hit and run ships and less of the "omg coward using stabs" from the opposition. Will force more fights from those that want to fight, and WCSs will be used for their intended purpose to help people travelling, not fighting, to avoid getting killed. Shadows of the Dead Recruitment
Ceay	Posted - 2006.11.29 16:27:00 - [6] Yes you can¦t run away like a girl in PVP G:)
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2006.11.29 16:27:00 - [7] Any situation where WCS can save you is also a situation you could have seen coming. I use a named WCS called "Situational Awareness". ~Thor Xian, Material Defender "Victory is the weakness of the enemy." Corp/Alliance Services
Loka Gallente adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.29 16:30:00 - [8] I used WCS only for traveling and will continue to do so. Never used them in lvl 4 Agent Mission, nor while mining or ratting in 0.0. Cant remember been killed during this tasks before. But what **ed me of more than once is when i engage a pirate and he ran like a pu$$y, when he realise that he would loose, because he had 2 stabs on his ship. So its buff for me, not a nerf. Thanks for your audience. _________________________ Noob In Action - [NIA]**
Alowishus Shadow Company Alektorophobia	Posted - 2006.11.29 16:35:00 - [9] A WCS is for travelling. What it is not for: People who want to snipe haulers from 120km with impunity People who want the reward of lowsec without the risk The Devs have finally addressed this. Lastly, I'd say that if you have a slot to spare for WCS then Level 4 missions are too easy. But since increasing their difficulty would result in even more whining, I'm happy with the WCS nerf by itself.
Kane Ululani REUNI0N Red Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.29 16:46:00 - [10] Originally by: Ivan Grozny Edited by: Ivan Grozny on 29/11/2006 16:22:25 Can anyone show me positive effect of such change? Thanks You get warp to zero. Look at inertial stabilizers, which are apparently buffed. Warping before they can lock is a good thing, so is a scout.
Verus Potestas Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2006.11.29 16:49:00 - [11] Edited by: Verus Potestas on 29/11/2006 16:49:31 Originally by: Ivan Grozny No more solo Lvl4. What the **. I solo all my level4s, and never fitted a single stab. Originally by:** Ivan Grozny No more NPCing in 0.0. I NPCed a fair bit in 0.0, and never fitted a single stab. Originally by: Ivan Grozny Can anyone show me positive effect of such change? Thanks I'm going to blow the **** out of you Between corps atm, the NPC one is strictly a temporary thing. RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy
Flowerpot	Posted - 2006.11.29 16:54:00 - [12] \o/ for devs - good decision it stops a lot of really lame people being er lame without making haulers or travellers easier targets. I do apologise to those people who are er inconvenienced. Means also a lot of people won't need to fit 8 points of scramble to get that sniper either. Again \o/ for devs.
Agnar Koladrov Gallente Hurricane Corporation	Posted - 2006.11.29 17:07:00 - [13] I still think the change is Too harsch. I followed the discussion on the forums abou this while I was away from EVE and what amazed me every time was the short 'sightedness' of many players. Yes WCS needed nerfing...but only to those who over stabbed, like 3+ WCS. There was no harm in fitting 1 or maybe 2 wcs, but the people who where stabbed up trough the roof (3+ to 6+) they needed to be dealt with. Now the 'fly' and the 'butterfly' are squached, which seems to me like not a real good solution to the problem. ________________________________________________ What a Revelation!
Rulkez FireStar Inc Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.29 17:16:00 - [14] single best change in eve ever
Tammarr	Posted - 2006.11.29 17:31:00 - [15] Its way overboard a small 10-15% per stab would have been ok. Sadly until the mental inapt "playing to get highest score on killboard eve is an fps" players learn that forcing someone to escape combat can be just as valuable as killing them. And ofc this accompishes killing of "hit & run" tactics. Highly usefull, loose 1-3 lowslots and damage/tank/usefull gear but might save ship and comeback to poke more later unless people put enough scramblers on? Thing is, people dont want to have to coordinate or put/fit more than one 20km disruptor on someone to hold them down, it should be easy, a scrambler means they should stay put right? Now now, what this will actually do most probably is that we'll see fewer high value ships enter into alliance territory to strike down ratters/miners etc due to one 20km scram being all thats needed to wipe them out. In essence making big alliances space more safe, meaning a big alliance members can more safely make iskies. I for instance with the knowledge of the over the hills and far away nerf coming quickly started out a miner. Cant help to feel the greed from sneaking it into bob or ascn and safely mine away far more safer and more profitable then rating with my main =)
Nicocat Caldari New Age Solutions	Posted - 2006.11.29 17:37:00 - [16] Originally by: Rulkez single best change in eve ever Q. F. T. I love how the stabmonkeysÖ seem to have overall MISSED this change in the patch notes. I'm seriously giggling in my office as we speak. ---------------------------- Buying Sabres. EVEmail or convo me in game!
Nicocat Caldari New Age Solutions	Posted - 2006.11.29 17:44:00 - [17] Edited by: Nicocat on 29/11/2006 17:52:23 Edit for double post of hatred and pain ;.; ---------------------------- Buying Sabres. EVEmail or convo me in game!
Skawl GeoTech	Posted - 2006.11.29 17:53:00 - [18] Originally by: Ivan Grozny Edited by: Ivan Grozny on 29/11/2006 16:22:25 -50% of targeting range, -50% of scan resolution. This is make this modules useless and change balance of the game dramatically, giving advantage to pirats! No more solo Lvl4. No more NPCing in 0.0. Can anyone show me positive effect of such change? Thanks Why no more missions or NPCing? You don't need a stab for that.
Max Hardcase Art of War Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.29 18:09:00 - [19] Originally by: Ivan Grozny Edited by: Ivan Grozny on 29/11/2006 16:22:25 -50% of targeting range, -50% of scan resolution. This is make this modules useless and change balance of the game dramatically, giving advantage to pirats! No more solo Lvl4. No more NPCing in 0.0. Can anyone show me positive effect of such change? Thanks Funny I always think of 0.0 as being safer than lowsec. Every Tom **** and Harry in lowsec can decide to be a "pirate" making local very unpredictable. Even syndicate 0.0 is safer than low "security".
Phichi Team Americas Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.29 18:40:00 - [20] You can see who is friendly and who is unfriendly in local now.. (everyone who isn't friendly in 0.0 and most lowsec should be considered unfriendly anyways) So why do you need a stab for npcing? The system is simple, somone jumps in that you don't know, go to safe. Muggers point out failures in one's personal security measures, but it does not alter the fact that they are muggers.
Verus Potestas Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2006.11.29 18:42:00 - [21] Originally by: Nicocat Originally by: Rulkez single best change in eve ever Q. F. T. I love how the stabmonkeysÖ seem to have overall MISSED this change in the patch notes. I'm seriously giggling in my office as we speak. Me too Between corps atm, the NPC one is strictly a temporary thing. RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy
Sionnach Caldari The Devil's Rejects	Posted - 2006.11.29 19:08:00 - [22] I think this change is awesome. Makes WCS a mod fitted so your ship is designed for one task - running away from and/or avoiding combat. As far as attempting to use them on a combat ship now stabs make EVERYONE cry and not just PvPers. Overall this seems to be the best combat balancing change in Eve ever. May you spend half an hour in Heaven before the Devil knows your dead.
Exogene	Posted - 2006.11.29 22:19:00 - [23] I haven't used WCS even for travelling. I guess the stabmonkey's will either have to: 1. Go play WoW 2. Learn that there is mod called sensor boosters that can even out the WCS penalties 3. Learn to fly like a proper Eve pilot should WCS = We are Cute Sissies
Naim Obeji Minmatar Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.11.29 22:30:00 - [24] Originally by: Ivan Grozny Edited by: Ivan Grozny on 29/11/2006 16:22:25 -50% of targeting range, -50% of scan resolution. This is make this modules useless and change balance of the game dramatically, giving advantage to pirats! No more solo Lvl4. No more NPCing in 0.0. Can anyone show me positive effect of such change? Thanks LOL.."no more?" So how is it, then, that people did these things without stabs before the nerf? Stabs are for travel...nothing else.
xKillaH Minmatar Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.29 22:48:00 - [25] People ain't supposed to fit their ships with wcs except they want to be completely free of danger and don't want to fight (that is; mining barge, haulers and all other industrial thingys). I love thoose changes. At last ppl will stop using WCS on HACS Need Sig?Gallery
Grey Area Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.29 23:13:00 - [26] I see a lot of gloating in this thread. Sad. Only time will tell if CCP will change the nerf (I agree it does NOT need to be undone). 50% penalty should be changed to 75% penalty, but only for every stab AFTER the first. --- I don't mind you disagreeing with me. Just don't say I don't have the SKILLS to comment until you've looked at them.
Verus Potestas Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2006.11.29 23:16:00 - [27] Originally by: Grey Area I see a lot of gloating in this thread. Sad. Only time will tell if CCP will change the nerf (I agree it does NOT need to be undone). 50% penalty should be changed to 75% penalty, but only for every stab AFTER the first. Yeah, first should be 90%. Vagabonds will still be fitting them with the current penalties. Between corps atm, the NPC one is strictly a temporary thing. RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy
Grey Area Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.29 23:28:00 - [28] Originally by: Verus Potestas Vagabonds will still be fitting them with the current penalties. So because of ONE ship, EVERYTHING else gets the shaft? That's the most arse-about-face way to balance something I've ever heard of. I'd even agree to making the SECOND and subsequent WCS a 90% penalty...I just think this nerf hands pirates an "I win" button against non-PVP'ers who might one day want to check out low sec space...they won't fit a WCS because of the penalty, so they won't make it into low sec space at all because they'll get scrambled and locked down by the first pirate with a 1 point scrambler they see...which will be ALL of them...and they'll come back thinking that they won't do that again. That can't be good for the game as a whole, surely? --- I don't mind you disagreeing with me. Just don't say I don't have the SKILLS to comment until you've looked at them.
Yarek Balear The Initiative	Posted - 2006.11.29 23:31:00 - [29] Edited by: Yarek Balear on 29/11/2006 23:31:53 Personally I think it's great for the game, because low sec combat has become a battle of the blob for a while, but once people realise they can tackle solo with their single point scrambler there won't be so much need for wingmen and more potential for solo battles... EDIT: Besides - the whole attack, get beat, warp out mullarky was a complete joke and made low sec piracy virtually extinct.
Grey Area Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.29 23:34:00 - [30] Originally by: Yarek Balear but once people realise they can tackle solo with their single point scrambler Ohh, I think every pirate on the planet realised that the second this change hit Sisi...that's why they are defending it so vehemently. It's a carebear muggin "I win" button and they know it. Carebears will stop coming. In a few weeks/months I think gatecampers will be paying carebears to come to low sec just so they have something to do... --- I don't mind you disagreeing with me. Just don't say I don't have the SKILLS to comment until you've looked at them.
Verus Potestas Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2006.11.29 23:45:00 - [31] Originally by: Grey Area Originally by: Verus Potestas Vagabonds will still be fitting them with the current penalties. So because of ONE ship, EVERYTHING else gets the shaft? That's the most arse-about-face way to balance something I've ever heard of. No, because of every ship. That's just an obvious example. Nearly everything above cruiser size can still fit a stab if it's in combat range. Simply put, combat ships and stabs don't go together. If you want to fight, you fight. If you don't, you run. You can't have your cake and eat it. You have to eat it and then whine about how CCP should seed more cake on the forum. Non-PvPers shouldn't be getting caught if they can scan, and if they do, in a combat setup, should be fighting the aggressors off. If they want to travel, they can still fit to travel. Why is it fair that anyone should be able to engage and then warp off happily if things don't go their way? The only way I'd ever consider making the first stab penalty free would be to include an inherent scrambler (20km) on every ship. I have just as much of a problem with the aggressor warping off if things go badly as with the target. Attacking PvE fits shouldn't be risk-free either. Originally by: Grey Area I'd even agree to making the SECOND and subsequent WCS a 90% penalty...I just think this nerf hands pirates an "I win" button against non-PVP'ers who might one day want to check out low sec space...they won't fit a WCS because of the penalty, so they won't make it into low sec space at all because they'll get scrambled and locked down by the first pirate with a 1 point scrambler they see...which will be ALL of them...and they'll come back thinking that they won't do that again. That can't be good for the game as a whole, surely? No, you just have a self-equipped "I lose" button. I spent a huge amount of my time as a new player in low sec, and didn't fit stabs. I lost many ships, some to gate campers, some to plex campers or to belt pirates. I PvEd almost entirely: only ever joining larger gangs to try and outblob pirates (and fairly miserably because we sucked: a problem that most antipirate forces seem to suffer from, but that's a different thread). I lost ships. I kept going. Low security means low security. If you can't deal with losing ships, you shouldn't be in low security (actually, if you can't deal with losing ships, why aren't you playing a game where it doesn't happen). If you want veldspar and no risk, stay in high sec. If you want low security, go to low security. People who run from low sec having lost a single ship shouldn't be there any way. No amount of stabs will fix that. If they can't learn to look after themselves, they don't belong in low sec. If they don't know how to look after themselves, low sec is there for them to learn in cheap ships. Personally, I think it's disgraceful that you have 57million SP, but are seemingly completely incapable of actually playing the game without everything handed to you on a plate. Between corps atm, the NPC one is strictly a temporary thing. RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy
Sinnbad Mayhem	Posted - 2006.11.29 23:55:00 - [32] was feeling blue and then read this thread. Thank you!!!! make every ship that fits stabs, PINK! cant rat or do level 4s without stabs? roflmao
Imhotep Khem Total Mayhem.	Posted - 2006.11.30 13:34:00 - [33] Scan resolution fine, but whats the point of nerfed range? Snipers dont need WCS. ____ "If your not dyin' your not tryin'." "Are you prepared to go all the way, Alexi?" DuGalle
Riddick06	Posted - 2006.11.30 13:46:00 - [34] Well with the improvements to probes this will put off most smart low sec mission running in their nice navy ravens. They get probed quicker and because of the stab nerf not even a sensor booster could compensate for, they get pinned down alot faster. CCP will find out if the nerf was to hard eventually anyways.
Agriel Kushrenada	Posted - 2006.11.30 14:10:00 - [35] Originally by: Naim Obeji Originally by: Ivan Grozny Edited by: Ivan Grozny on 29/11/2006 16:22:25 -50% of targeting range, -50% of scan resolution. This is make this modules useless and change balance of the game dramatically, giving advantage to pirats! No more solo Lvl4. No more NPCing in 0.0. Can anyone show me positive effect of such change? Thanks LOL.."no more?" So how is it, then, that people did these things without stabs before the nerf? Stabs are for travel...nothing else. yeah people who play for 3 years, I wan't to be able to do lvl 4 missions before 3 years have passed without losing many ships. It's not like I'm swimming in ISK Plus, it seems to me the only ones bothered by the previous WCS where the pirates, so why do they have to nerf them for missions to then? AK
Agriel Kushrenada	Posted - 2006.11.30 14:13:00 - [36] Edited by: Agriel Kushrenada on 30/11/2006 14:13:13 "No, you just have a self-equipped "I lose" button. I spent a huge amount of my time as a new player in low sec, and didn't fit stabs. I lost many ships, some to gate campers, some to plex campers or to belt pirates. I PvEd almost entirely: only ever joining larger gangs to try and outblob pirates (and fairly miserably because we sucked: a problem that most antipirate forces seem to suffer from, but that's a different thread). I lost ships. I kept going. Low security means low security. If you can't deal with losing ships, you shouldn't be in low security (actually, if you can't deal with losing ships, why aren't you playing a game where it doesn't happen). If you want veldspar and no risk, stay in high sec. If you want low security, go to low security. People who run from low sec having lost a single ship shouldn't be there any way. No amount of stabs will fix that. If they can't learn to look after themselves, they don't belong in low sec. If they don't know how to look after themselves, low sec is there for them to learn in cheap ships. Personally, I think it's disgraceful that you have 57million SP, but are seemingly completely incapable of actually playing the game without everything handed to you on a plate." Yeah sure, every1 has 57 million SP...... NOT!!! You forget in this game not only skill is required like in a 'shoot em up', but also actually 'character skill'. So if you are rather new (and far far far far very far from 57 millsion SP), you'll get pawned by almost every pirate. AK
Twilight Moon Minmatar Malicious Intentions	Posted - 2006.11.30 14:13:00 - [37] Originally by: Imhotep Khem Scan resolution fine, but whats the point of nerfed range? Snipers dont need WCS. A certain infamous pirate does... (Empty Space - Thinking)
Agriel Kushrenada	Posted - 2006.11.30 14:16:00 - [38] Originally by: Rid**06 Well with the improvements to probes this will put off most smart low sec mission running in their nice navy ravens. They get probed quicker and because of the stab nerf not even a sensor booster could compensate for, they get pinned down alot faster. CCP will find out if the nerf was to hard eventually anyways. Just a quick of topic question about this. you can also do lvl 4 missions in empire space. Those missions give a worse reward or something.... I mean if you just want to do missions, why go into 0.0 sec? AK
Wild Rho Amarr Black Omega Security	Posted - 2006.11.30 14:18:00 - [39] This change made me so happy I blew a hole in my pants. I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it.
Bad Borris	Posted - 2006.11.30 19:15:00 - [40] Pirates will be laughing but only the ones that dont lose stabs. The fakes will have to drop the stabs and grow some balls or quit pirating. Could actually trim the herd of the noob targeters that never actually pirate anything valuable. Eve has so few pirates of deserved notoriety. I completely agree that the game is harsh and would not want to dumb it down but the only flaw with nerfing stabs is that it will emphasise the divide between those who want to pvp and those who do not. Those who do not wish to pvp (and this decision is usually related to how many sp the guy has) will stick to low sec more and more until finally the pirates have few targets. Many pirates come out with a load of bravado about yarrrr and all that ****e but now they may actually have to structure their pvp beyond going for random nubs in low sec and head out to 0.0 where i think they will find a bit more competition. Eventually the pirating 'profession' may be forced to grow some balls and risk flying something slightly more potent than a stabber or a thorax, after all that aint gonna cut it against most people with more than 6 or 7 mil sp. So, on reflection, I like the nerf.
Grey Area Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.30 19:28:00 - [41] Originally by: Agriel Kushrenada you can also do lvl 4 missions in empire space. Those missions give a worse reward or something.... I mean if you just want to do missions, why go into 0.0 sec? Yes, rewards in low sec are higher...though I'd suggest finding a nice 0.5 that ISN'T near a 0.4...the difference between 0.5 and 0.4 in terms of reward is not much...certainly not enough to justify getting shot at. Oh, and before all the pirates whine, it's NOT that high sec rewards are too high...A couple of guys tracking down mission runners in low sec will earn 150 mill ransom between the two of them...75 mill each for no more than 10 minutes work. Doing a mission (ignoring loot which just encourgaes MORE risk) will net you about 30-40 million for about ONE HOUR's work. Then on top of that every so often you have to give 150 million to the pirates who catch you. It's not mission runner's life that's too easy, it's the pirates. under new scanning rules. --- I don't mind you disagreeing with me. Just don't say I don't have the SKILLS to comment until you've looked at them.
Verus Potestas Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2006.11.30 19:30:00 - [42] Originally by: Grey Area Originally by: Agriel Kushrenada you can also do lvl 4 missions in empire space. Those missions give a worse reward or something.... I mean if you just want to do missions, why go into 0.0 sec? Yes, rewards in low sec are higher...though I'd suggest finding a nice 0.5 that ISN'T near a 0.4 I suggest Irjunen, if you're caldari. There's a Q18 agent there in 0.5, who is something like 10 jumps from any low sec. Anyway, I do feel that the new scanning system is too quick and easy, but the answer to that is not stabs, it's a slower, more involved scanning process (wait, I think we had one of those until 2 days ago) Between corps atm, the NPC one is strictly a temporary thing. RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy
Riddick06	Posted - 2006.12.02 22:05:00 - [43] Originally by: Bad Borris Pirates will be laughing but only the ones that dont lose stabs. The fakes will have to drop the stabs and grow some balls or quit pirating. Could actually trim the herd of the noob targeters that never actually pirate anything valuable. Eve has so few pirates of deserved notoriety. I completely agree that the game is harsh and would not want to dumb it down but the only flaw with nerfing stabs is that it will emphasise the divide between those who want to pvp and those who do not. Those who do not wish to pvp (and this decision is usually related to how many sp the guy has) will stick to low sec more and more until finally the pirates have few targets. Many pirates come out with a load of bravado about yarrrr and all that ***e but now they may actually have to structure their pvp beyond going for random nubs in low sec and head out to 0.0 where i think they will find a bit more competition. Eventually the pirating 'profession' may be forced to grow some balls and risk flying something slightly more potent than a stabber or a thorax, after all that aint gonna cut it against most people with more than 6 or 7 mil sp. So, on reflection, I like the nerf. I like your thinking... not Unfortunatly this game isnt wow it doesnt matter how much sp you have a t2 specialised cruiser can still be ganked by half dozen t1 ships. All this stops are hit and run tactics and guys that cant afford to lose really expensive ships which will just make do with inexpensive ships or loners that like to work.. well alone that will always face ganks but less likely to survive. If nothing is in low sec pirates will have a choice of two areas to pirate, empire or 0.0 either one is apparently just as lucrative. At extremes pirates would only be able to pop ships leaving/going to stations/gates in low sec if it really did take a turn for the worst and every newb and carebear stayed in empire space or 0.0 well within their alliance territory. I hope CCP make low sec more attractive now they have introduced exploration i wouldnt mind maybe one or two 10/10 complexes or high end ores to attract the masses in low sec and have it the way it use to be (i dont know what it use to be but it apparently was alot more rewarding)*.
Kaldani Malankori	Posted - 2006.12.02 23:20:00 - [44] You know, once the stabs were activated med-slot modules. I liked it better that way, no one fitted more than one 20km scrambler. Needing 3 7,5 km scramblers and a webber to lock down a single ship was just stupid.
Unfamed II FinFleet Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.03 00:04:00 - [45] I'm laughing my ass off at everyone complaining about the wcs nerf. Tbh, i'd like to see even bigger nerf, but the current one is uber also. Remember kids: EVE is a PVP game. Seriously, it's not that great being an amarr, is it?

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