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Aladine	Posted - 2006.11.29 22:10:00 - [1] Edited by: Aladine on 29/11/2006 22:12:55 Hey all I was wondering what your opinions are about the state of Amarr Battleships now that revelations is out? I my self cant fly Battleships yet, but they are my next ships in line. I would realy like to know how the Apocalypse, Armageddon, and the Abbadon ? How is each one in pvp solo and fleet? How is each one is missions/ratting? How are they at overall everything? Cap useage, tank, damage?
Verus Potestas Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2006.11.29 22:12:00 - [2] Abaddon is pretty good Between corps atm, the NPC one is strictly a temporary thing. RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy
Wiggy69 5punkorp Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.29 22:24:00 - [3] Originally by: Verus Potestas Abaddon is pretty good ----- Wiggy's Bad Spelling and Grammar Complaints Department
Free Mason	Posted - 2006.11.29 22:25:00 - [4] EHH the abba is pretty cool even with lvl 5 bs I feel that my damage is quite low with lasers. People are simply too well tanked against em. I do love to fit it wil blasters tho... its just mean that way. you have more grid than you can shake a stick at. fit a mwd, injector webber warpjam, 8 neutron blasters and a nice tank...your ace. Personally the tank is off the hook. I have 82+ across the board, which is nice when not knowing who your gonna run into.
Nebuli Caldari Art of War Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.29 22:46:00 - [5] LOL at the blaster abba, probably better than Hype at it heh. CEO - Art of War
Nybbas Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2006.11.29 22:55:00 - [6] BUT HEY GUYS at least the caldari finall have a good battleship!!!
Free Mason	Posted - 2006.11.29 23:36:00 - [7] Originally by: Nebuli LOL at the blaster abba, probably better than Hype at it heh. Now why would you claim that? I flew the hype... holly hell batman the ship is off the wall. next bs skill to go to lvl 5..gallient. that hp boost from reppers is nuts it more than makes up the damage your taking while mwd'ing towards people. the only issue i had was the pg fitting. (and don't even start in on the pg I think every race has that issue, less caldari) don't complain about your ships dude just fly em and figure out how to make them work... (gal have nothing to complain about imo, I love every one of their ships. and thats as a 85% amarrain character) I have crap gal ship/weapon skills but cannot get over the insane damage you guys can lay down.
Aladine	Posted - 2006.11.30 02:06:00 - [8] So im guessing the state of them are not good at all?
Sinnbad Mayhem	Posted - 2006.11.30 02:16:00 - [9] all 3 ships are good if setup right and in optimal fighting conditions i think the point ppl miss in the forums is u pick your battles.. no single ship is dominant...Amarr have thier uses for example a fleet of Apocs and Geddons can camp a system for days...why u ask? simple, NO AMMO required and pretty cool dps from range ...which is where u want to be in PVP nowadays unless your nuts or love NOS :) learn tactics my friend and any BS, including AMARR can make beautiful music
Nebuli Caldari Art of War Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.30 02:17:00 - [10] Originally by: Free Mason Originally by: Nebuli LOL at the blaster abba, probably better than Hype at it heh. Now why would you claim that? I flew the hype... holly hell batman the ship is off the wall. next bs skill to go to lvl 5..gallient. that hp boost from reppers is nuts it more than makes up the damage your taking while mwd'ing towards people. the only issue i had was the pg fitting. (and don't even start in on the pg I think every race has that issue, less caldari) don't complain about your ships dude just fly em and figure out how to make them work... (gal have nothing to complain about imo, I love every one of their ships. and thats as a 85% amarrain character) I have crap gal ship/weapon skills but cannot get over the insane damage you guys can lay down. Erm Maxed Gal BS pilot, only have Caldari BS4 (which will be 5 soon), the Rokh is a better sniper/fleet ship than a mega, and its also a better blaster platform than a Hype. So, erm, yeah OK. CEO - Art of War
Aeaus Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.11.30 03:48:00 - [11] Originally by: Sinnbad Mayhem all 3 ships are good if setup right and in optimal fighting conditions i think the point ppl miss in the forums is u pick your battles.. no single ship is dominant...Amarr have thier uses for example a fleet of Apocs and Geddons can camp a system for days...why u ask? simple, NO AMMO required and pretty cool dps from range ...which is where u want to be in PVP nowadays unless your nuts or love NOS :) learn tactics my friend and any BS, including AMARR can make beautiful music That's just the most convincing reason for amarr I have ever heard. I mean, we have pathetically low DPS against 90% of PVP targets due to the proliferation of Omni Tanks, we have pathetic tanking ability without gimping our entire setup, our battleships can't be sniper fitted without dedicating several slots to fitting modules, our capacitors are pathetic even with a capacitor reduction bonus, our cruisers are almost unusuable, in addition we're the easiest to ECM and are weakest to any EW while having very little versitility ourselves bar our Tech II ships. But holy crap guys! We need no ammo! I mean it's not like a Megathron can't have enough ammo in the hold to ask a few days of sniping. Yea, optimal fighting conditions. There aren't very many optimal conditions for amarr, maybe having your enemy being AFK or being in a massive blob where Amarr suckage doesn't matter is one. Amarr is outdone by nearly every race, hell, even Minmatar are dominating Amarr now for a nice turn of events. Last Weeks Signature
Sinnbad Mayhem	Posted - 2006.11.30 03:59:00 - [12] Originally by: Aeaus Originally by: Sinnbad Mayhem all 3 ships are good if setup right and in optimal fighting conditions i think the point ppl miss in the forums is u pick your battles.. no single ship is dominant...Amarr have thier uses for example a fleet of Apocs and Geddons can camp a system for days...why u ask? simple, NO AMMO required and pretty cool dps from range ...which is where u want to be in PVP nowadays unless your nuts or love NOS :) learn tactics my friend and any BS, including AMARR can make beautiful music That's just the most convincing reason for amarr I have ever heard. I mean, we have pathetically low DPS against 90% of PVP targets due to the proliferation of Omni Tanks, we have pathetic tanking ability without gimping our entire setup, our battleships can't be sniper fitted without dedicating several slots to fitting modules, our capacitors are pathetic even with a capacitor reduction bonus, our cruisers are almost unusuable, in addition we're the easiest to ECM and are weakest to any EW while having very little versitility ourselves bar our Tech II ships. But holy crap guys! We need no ammo! I mean it's not like a Megathron can't have enough ammo in the hold to ask a few days of sniping. Yea, optimal fighting conditions. There aren't very many optimal conditions for amarr, maybe having your enemy being AFK or being in a massive blob where Amarr suckage doesn't matter is one. Amarr is outdone by nearly every race, hell, even Minmatar are dominating Amarr now for a nice turn of events. tip: its a freaking game, RELAX!!!! and yeah, my advice was ghey. Amarr suck gee whiz, i liked u better when u were killing me in Bleak lands already .. still remmeber fondly getting ganked 3on1 by the Machariel that was freaking cool. learned alot from those days cya later dood :)
Shadow Mancer Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL	Posted - 2006.11.30 04:00:00 - [13] Originally by: Nybbas BUT HEY GUYS at least the caldari finally have the best Sniper BS!!! There I corrected it for u Always smacking in local near you
Sinnbad Mayhem	Posted - 2006.11.30 04:03:00 - [14] by the way, what do you mean by "we have pathetically low DPS against 90% of PVP targets due to the proliferation of Omni Tanks, we have pathetic tanking ability without gimping our entire setup, our battleships can't be sniper fitted without dedicating several slots to fitting modules, our capacitors are pathetic even with a capacitor reduction bonus, our cruisers are almost unusuable... arent u Gallente role player? what do u mean by WE ... u some closet Amarr dood? WTF and to think flying Minmatar in an Amarr RP alliance was weired lol
Nybbas Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2006.11.30 04:11:00 - [15] Originally by: Shadow Mancer Originally by: Nybbas BUT HEY GUYS at least the caldari finally have the best Sniper BS!!! There I corrected it for u well here, let me rephrase... Ahem BUT HEY GUYS at least the caldari finally have the best long range bs/tanking/blaster bs in the game! to go along with the best EWAR battleship, to go along with the best missile battleship!! I whine about gallente, but then i look at the amarr and I feel a little better, but then i look back at the caldari and get ****ed again... I really do feel for you amarr people but at least the abbaddon is somewhat of a different ship than your first two tiers... the hype is a SLIGHTLY tweaked megathron with a new model...
Hotice	Posted - 2006.11.30 04:20:00 - [16] Just skip the battleships all together. Train for command ships and hacs. You will have pretty much same performance and more fun with smaller ships.
Nybbas Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2006.11.30 04:23:00 - [17] not everyone has the luxury of ignoring isk costs.
LordChaos Amarr Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2006.11.30 04:24:00 - [18] Apoc= Worthless maybe excpet in missions or cheapest tech2 sniper Abbadon= Makes Apoc worthless does everything better great Fleet BS , i would agree far better with AC's or Blasters in close range , but i still have to test it more with lasers Geddon= best Amarr BS and probably the only reason im playing Amarr The Master Of Chaos
Lithalnas Amarr Hadean Drive Yards	Posted - 2006.11.30 04:32:00 - [19] anyone try it with 1200mm canons yet? ------------- Cadet Lithalnas - Logistics Division - Hadean Drive Yards
Aladine	Posted - 2006.11.30 07:15:00 - [20] Ok, so if i was going to buy an Amarr battle ship, in the next few weeks, wich one would you recomned? (Missions ratting and complexes)
Waut 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.11.30 08:05:00 - [21] Edited by: Waut on 30/11/2006 08:06:19 Edited by: Waut on 30/11/2006 08:04:50 Originally by: Nybbas Originally by: Shadow Mancer Originally by: Nybbas BUT HEY GUYS at least the caldari finally have the best Sniper BS!!! There I corrected it for u well here, let me rephrase... Ahem BUT HEY GUYS at least the caldari finally have the best long range bs/tanking/blaster bs in the game! to go along with the best EWAR battleship, to go along with the best missile battleship!! I whine about gallente, but then i look at the amarr and I feel a little better, but then i look back at the caldari and get ****ed again... I really do feel for you amarr people but at least the abbaddon is somewhat of a different ship than your first two tiers... the hype is a SLIGHTLY tweaked megathron with a new model... Done whining? This tread was about Amarr Kthx In Soviet EVE, roids pop YOU
Xendie Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.11.30 08:12:00 - [22] Originally by: Aladine Ok, so if i was going to buy an Amarr battle ship, in the next few weeks, wich one would you recomned? (Missions ratting and complexes) raven Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
Nybbas Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2006.11.30 08:46:00 - [23] Originally by: Waut Edited by: Waut on 30/11/2006 08:06:19 Edited by: Waut on 30/11/2006 08:04:50 Originally by: Nybbas Originally by: Shadow Mancer Originally by: Nybbas BUT HEY GUYS at least the caldari finally have the best Sniper BS!!! There I corrected it for u well here, let me rephrase... Ahem BUT HEY GUYS at least the caldari finally have the best long range bs/tanking/blaster bs in the game! to go along with the best EWAR battleship, to go along with the best missile battleship!! I whine about gallente, but then i look at the amarr and I feel a little better, but then i look back at the caldari and get ****ed again... I really do feel for you amarr people but at least the abbaddon is somewhat of a different ship than your first two tiers... the hype is a SLIGHTLY tweaked megathron with a new model... Done whining? This tread was about Amarr Kthx done trolling? kthx. It isn't my fault that your reading comprehension is terrible... anyways back to the topic... The amarr definitely do need a boost, The abaddon as it seems, completely makes the apoc redundant, while the armageddon is still a very good cheap alternative to an abba. Sometimes (all the time) I really wonder what the devs are thinking when they start balancing and creating some of this crap...
Guylon	Posted - 2006.11.30 08:54:00 - [24] Kthx The amarr definitely do need a boost, The abaddon as it seems, completely makes the apoc redundant, while the armageddon is still a very good cheap alternative to an abba. Sometimes (all the time) I really wonder what the devs are thinking when they start balancing and creating some of this crap... Thank you that bit was helpfull. I would like to get an Abaddon, but since im a newer player i think i might going with the Armageddon for now thanks alot.
Nybbas Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2006.11.30 08:56:00 - [25] you would be better off training for caldari... much easier to mission run etc, and a very easy step into pvp as well (your ship options are open to nearly any style of gameplay now... turret use, missile use, ewar, tanking etc. they really have it ALL now.)
Securion Wolfheart Caldari Dark-Rising Fallen Souls	Posted - 2006.11.30 09:13:00 - [26] Originally by: Nybbas you would be better off training for caldari... much easier to mission run etc, and a very easy step into pvp as well (your ship options are open to nearly any style of gameplay now... turret use, missile use, ewar, tanking etc. they really have it ALL now.) Except any possibility to tank anything if you do pvp. Mwd, scram and web = no tank = dead, dead, dead. But oh yea we are sooo overpowered, arent we. We all see that from the huge numbers of Caldari ships we see out doing pvp. -----====----- Whether we bring our enemies to justice or bring justice to our enemies, justice will be done.
Emperor D'Hoffryn No Quarter.	Posted - 2006.11.30 09:27:00 - [27] Originally by: Securion Wolfheart Originally by: Nybbas you would be better off training for caldari... much easier to mission run etc, and a very easy step into pvp as well (your ship options are open to nearly any style of gameplay now... turret use, missile use, ewar, tanking etc. they really have it ALL now.) Except any possibility to tank anything if you do pvp. Mwd, scram and web = no tank = dead, dead, dead. But oh yea we are sooo overpowered, arent we. We all see that from the huge numbers of Caldari ships we see out doing pvp. yes, cause filling your numerous meds with ew and filling your still plenty of lows (5 on a raven) with an armor tank is not an option at all. apoc was once a good miner...being the only Bs with 8 turret slots. sadly, caldari had to be number one here as well, the rokh has more cpu and 8 turrets. welcome your new mining BS overlord. apoc went from 1 to none. Originally by: Tuxford Yes we don't play on our main accounts simply because you would lose all respect for us
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2006.11.30 10:03:00 - [28] Whilst all battleships need support to be fully effective, this is more true of Amarrian ones. Get your support right (especially interceptors and EW boats), and you can dominate battlefields. Get your support wrong, or go in solo, and you could find yourself toast. On the skills side, cap skills are absolutely vital, particularly with the Abaddon. Energy Systems Operation, Energy Management and Controlled Bursts are the ones to go for. Dulce et decorum est, pro imperator mori It's great being Amarr, ain't it?
Sith8 The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.11.30 10:43:00 - [29] What really worries me is that 27.2% dmg nerf that T2 ammo received + the 20% range nerf.... add to that 50% hp boost all ships get and the 400% hp boost to Capitals. This basically means that it will take a lot to kill a BS, fleets will have to move closer and do less damage on better tanked ships. I really don¦t understand why T2 ammo was nerfed like that... Is it to narrow the space between lower Sp players and those with high Sp?.... well thanx alot for sticking with Eve and CCP since 2003, we are gonna nerf you back two years.
Royaldo Old Farts The Phantom Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.11.30 11:12:00 - [30] drop the base em armor resistance abit please. there are no solo amarr bs's out there. missions/ratting = apoc. dmg = arma. overpriced arma = abaddon.
Securion Wolfheart Caldari Dark-Rising Fallen Souls	Posted - 2006.11.30 11:46:00 - [31] Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn Originally by: Securion Wolfheart Originally by: Nybbas you would be better off training for caldari... much easier to mission run etc, and a very easy step into pvp as well (your ship options are open to nearly any style of gameplay now... turret use, missile use, ewar, tanking etc. they really have it ALL now.) Except any possibility to tank anything if you do pvp. Mwd, scram and web = no tank = dead, dead, dead. But oh yea we are sooo overpowered, arent we. We all see that from the huge numbers of Caldari ships we see out doing pvp. yes, cause filling your numerous meds with ew and filling your still plenty of lows (5 on a raven) with an armor tank is not an option at all. apoc was once a good miner...being the only Bs with 8 turret slots. sadly, caldari had to be number one here as well, the rokh has more cpu and 8 turrets. welcome your new mining BS overlord. apoc went from 1 to none. Oh yea forgot that... just train up another set of skills and do armour tank on a Raven. Great. And with that armour tank not being able to fit anything to raise dps. Uber-great. I hope your not in charge of setting up your corps ships mate. And you use your battleship for mining...? -----====----- Whether we bring our enemies to justice or bring justice to our enemies, justice will be done.
DeadDuck Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.11.30 11:58:00 - [32] The abbadon is a fearless opponent in close range fitting. In fleet fitting in wich all the focus goes to range and firepower the abbadon looses miserably to their brothers the geddon and the apoc. The cap consumption of the tachyons "kills" the ship in 1 minute.
Keruli	Posted - 2006.11.30 12:07:00 - [33] Quote: And you use your battleship for mining... since they are only usefull for this... yes... To the OP nevmind Amarr BSs- train caldaris, rokh is THE bs for any Amarr pilot out there- gunnery skills on the plus side, shield tanking on the downside, although its still better than any "our" racial bs even with crappy skills, and once were at it, any other race ships are better then our own- so you may be a True Amarr inside but youre going to fly other races weapons/ships sooner or later... ps- although i wont give up my beloved prophecy/crusader no matter how crappy they are!!
Sir Bart Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2006.11.30 12:24:00 - [34] I think that Kali has improved the state of Amarr BS greatly. The former complaints: -EM/Therm dmg sucks against EANM tanks. -not enough midslots and midslots were very powerful due to ECM that everyon was using -in spite of ships like the geddon getting 2 dmg bonuses (us Amarr like to count the cap usage as a dmg bonus since lasers are supposed to do more dmg) it still got out damaged by the blasterthron -Extra range doesn't help much since you need to get close anyways to scram someone. Changes: -2 of the new BS are shield tankers and EM / Therm is very good against sheilds -ECM nerf takes a big step in balancing out the value between mid and low slots. In fact, most hyperion pilots wish they could move a midslot into the lows b/c ECM isn't a great idea anymore. -Low slots and Rigs are going to allow Amarr ships get back on the high dps train. Low slots can be used on dmg mods or rcu and rigs that increase dps also increase powergrid usage. Too bad if we use 2 dmg rigs we leave the 3rd rig slot blank, oh well, I think I'll still do it. :) -Extra range: well this agrument is pretty biased anyways, the only time it really holds up is if you're talking about a 1vs1 in battleships, in all other situations the extra range is great. I was going to mention that the higher dps attainable now with rigs (and Amarr will fit rigs easier that most races imo) I was going ot say that range is more important but the truth is, now that we have more HP range can be closed by shorter range opponents in a smaller fraction of the battlelength so I call that a wash. -Bart
Sir Bart Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2006.11.30 12:41:00 - [35] Edited by: Sir Bart on 30/11/2006 12:41:15 Reading the other off topic posts about the other new BSs I couldnt' help myself from an offtopic post of my own. The Rokh is the most powerful battleship in the game, no question about it. You didn't ask about the Rokh but... The fact that it gets a bonus to range per level and has room for 8 guns is just crazy. Imo, it will get nerfed. When people use range rigs and hit with javelin at sniper ranges (spike got nerfed but javelin is still great) it's going to be crazy. Also, with lower level skills you can use t1 guns / ammo to great effect since you will always be using higher dmg ammo than your opponents. I've resisted Caldari ships so far because I found them to be too mainstream but since I've already got the hybrid skills, it's very tempting... who knows, I might learn Minnmatar instead b/c they are cooler. For close range setups, the Rokh and Maelstrom are both pretty awsome but if they want the classic midslots they can't shield tank, so they have to juggle between the MWD, Scram, web, injector, and shield tanking modules. The hyperion is a decent close range ship but lacks dps since that 5th mid is taking away a mag stab from the bthron setup we all got used to. Who knows, maybe our surviveability will win the day instead of our dmg. (although dmg is really fun and the reason we picked Gallente in the first place). -Bart
Almarez	Posted - 2006.11.30 15:57:00 - [36] Aladine, It really depends what you want to do and how you like to play. Armageddon is fantastic for fleet play. Solo PVP it can definitely run into cap issues. Although with the new NOS nerf it may be a little better (too bad for the curse huh). Apocalypse can be really good for missions and ratting depending on what kind of rats you're hunting. Rats with high resists to EM and thermal will take forever to kill. And as sad as it is to say the Apoc is good for mining. I can mine as much in an Apoc as I can in a retriever and tank at the same time. Abaddon - I've only tried it out on the test server but here is my thought. Now that it has a damage bonus instead of an rof bonus, if you get the rigs on there that reduce cap use of the lasers I think it can be a decent PVP ship, even solo PVP. The reason I say this is that you can substitute some of the tank mods with cap power relays, especially when T2 ones come out. So you will have as good of a tank as the Apoc with better DPS. So ya the Apoc becomes rather obsolete except for the fact that it's cheaper.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.30 16:11:00 - [37] Originally by: Sir Bart -2 of the new BS are shield tankers and EM / Therm is very good against sheilds And 3 out of the 4 new BCs are armortankers. Meaning totally we got 62.5% armortankers and 37.5% shieldtankers from the new ships. Which is pretty much the same armor:shieldtanker ratio we had before kali. Quote: -Low slots and Rigs are going to allow Amarr ships get back on the high dps train. Low slots can be used on dmg mods or rcu and rigs that increase dps also increase powergrid usage. Too bad if we use 2 dmg rigs we leave the 3rd rig slot blank, oh well, I think I'll still do it. :) 2 problems there: - rigs are available for other ships, too. You might as well claim heat sinks will help amarr to gain their dps back. What is usable by all ships equally results in no changes how the ships compare vs each other. And, no, amarr won't be able to fit rigs easier. Amarr ships have more grid, but lasers also need more grid to fit as well. - rigs are subject to the stacking penality just like normal modules. If you have 3 damage mods fitted an 10% damage rig will only give you +2.8% more dps, sicne it gets the stacking penality of a 4th damage mod.
Siakel	Posted - 2006.11.30 16:14:00 - [38] Originally by: Sir Bart I think that Kali has improved the state of Amarr BS greatly. The former complaints: -EM/Therm dmg sucks against EANM tanks. -not enough midslots and midslots were very powerful due to ECM that everyon was using -in spite of ships like the geddon getting 2 dmg bonuses (us Amarr like to count the cap usage as a dmg bonus since lasers are supposed to do more dmg) it still got out damaged by the blasterthron -Extra range doesn't help much since you need to get close anyways to scram someone. Changes: -2 of the new BS are shield tankers and EM / Therm is very good against sheilds -ECM nerf takes a big step in balancing out the value between mid and low slots. In fact, most hyperion pilots wish they could move a midslot into the lows b/c ECM isn't a great idea anymore. -Low slots and Rigs are going to allow Amarr ships get back on the high dps train. Low slots can be used on dmg mods or rcu and rigs that increase dps also increase powergrid usage. Too bad if we use 2 dmg rigs we leave the 3rd rig slot blank, oh well, I think I'll still do it. :) -Extra range: well this agrument is pretty biased anyways, the only time it really holds up is if you're talking about a 1vs1 in battleships, in all other situations the extra range is great. I was going to mention that the higher dps attainable now with rigs (and Amarr will fit rigs easier that most races imo) I was going ot say that range is more important but the truth is, now that we have more HP range can be closed by shorter range opponents in a smaller fraction of the battlelength so I call that a wash. -Bart -Two more ships that can shieldtank, yes. Whether they'll fit 1x EM 2x Inuln and leave EM damage as the second highest or not, who knows. We're still left with (if all Maelstroms/Rokhs fit shieldtanks), at best, a 2/1 armortanker/shieldtanker ratio. It's more likely that we'll still see far more armortanking ships than shieldtanking, as most shield-tanking ships don't actually shieldtank for PVP. -Mids still have AB/MWD/Web/Scram/Injector/TD/RSD etc. We're a long, long way from balancing out midslots vs lowslots still. -Amarr are perhaps the least capable of using rigs, as the +grid requirement hurts us so much. Minmatar will be the short-range rig-using race, and for long range, Gallente or Caldari. So every other race has some way to use rigs far easier, and you've also missed the part where Rigs are stacking nerfed with damage mods, so you're trading a rigslot and +5% weapon griduse with max skills for +4-5% damage or RoF. I don't see how you got the idea that Amarr would fit rigs easier, as most of our ships already run out of grid, and slapping on two RCU IIs isn't going to make it a good setup.
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2006.11.30 17:06:00 - [39] Originally by: LordChaos Apoc= Worthless maybe excpet in missions or cheapest tech2 sniper Abbadon= Makes Apoc worthless does everything better great Fleet BS , i would agree far better with AC's or Blasters in close range , but i still have to test it more with lasers Geddon= best Amarr BS and probably the only reason im playing Amarr abbadon does everything better then apoc....? In an abbadon you can't even kill off an omni tanked apoc with a 1600mm plate before your cap's dead
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.30 17:33:00 - [40] If it is using lasers...
Emperor D'Hoffryn No Quarter.	Posted - 2006.11.30 17:40:00 - [41] Originally by: Securion Wolfheart Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn Originally by: Securion Wolfheart Originally by: Nybbas you would be better off training for caldari... much easier to mission run etc, and a very easy step into pvp as well (your ship options are open to nearly any style of gameplay now... turret use, missile use, ewar, tanking etc. they really have it ALL now.) Except any possibility to tank anything if you do pvp. Mwd, scram and web = no tank = dead, dead, dead. But oh yea we are sooo overpowered, arent we. We all see that from the huge numbers of Caldari ships we see out doing pvp. yes, cause filling your numerous meds with ew and filling your still plenty of lows (5 on a raven) with an armor tank is not an option at all. apoc was once a good miner...being the only Bs with 8 turret slots. sadly, caldari had to be number one here as well, the rokh has more cpu and 8 turrets. welcome your new mining BS overlord. apoc went from 1 to none. Oh yea forgot that... just train up another set of skills and do armour tank on a Raven. Great. And with that armour tank not being able to fit anything to raise dps. Uber-great. I hope your not in charge of setting up your corps ships mate. And you use your battleship for mining...? LOL Someone has never fought Burn Eden. How I described is exactly what they do, and it works really well. And another set of skills? Please, there are 2 main ones, and the armor compensation skills for passive tanks. Hardly time intensive. And no, I do not own an Apoc for obvious reason, was simply stating the ONE thing it was better at then the other BSes. Sadly, now its best at nothing. Originally by: Tuxford Yes we don't play on our main accounts simply because you would lose all respect for us
Siakel	Posted - 2006.11.30 17:43:00 - [42] Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn Originally by: Securion Wolfheart Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn Originally by: Securion Wolfheart Originally by: Nybbas you would be better off training for caldari... much easier to mission run etc, and a very easy step into pvp as well (your ship options are open to nearly any style of gameplay now... turret use, missile use, ewar, tanking etc. they really have it ALL now.) Except any possibility to tank anything if you do pvp. Mwd, scram and web = no tank = dead, dead, dead. But oh yea we are sooo overpowered, arent we. We all see that from the huge numbers of Caldari ships we see out doing pvp. yes, cause filling your numerous meds with ew and filling your still plenty of lows (5 on a raven) with an armor tank is not an option at all. apoc was once a good miner...being the only Bs with 8 turret slots. sadly, caldari had to be number one here as well, the rokh has more cpu and 8 turrets. welcome your new mining BS overlord. apoc went from 1 to none. Oh yea forgot that... just train up another set of skills and do armour tank on a Raven. Great. And with that armour tank not being able to fit anything to raise dps. Uber-great. I hope your not in charge of setting up your corps ships mate. And you use your battleship for mining...? LOL Someone has never fought Burn Eden. How I described is exactly what they do, and it works really well. And another set of skills? Please, there are 2 main ones, and the armor compensation skills for passive tanks. Hardly time intensive. And no, I do not own an Apoc for obvious reason, was simply stating the ONE thing it was better at then the other BSes. Sadly, now its best at nothing. Depends. A Laser-sniperpoc will be better for extended engagements than the Laser-sniperdon. It'll just be inferior at.. well, everything else. Then again, who knows. Maybe Apocs will start fitting 3x Cap rigs and run triplerep tanks?
Elve Sorrow Amarr Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.30 17:59:00 - [43] For the love of God. ...laser-sniperpoc... WTF WTF WTF WTF WTF? ...laser-sniperdon... WTF¦ WTF¦ WTF¦ WTF¦ WTF¦ WTF¦? Seriously. It's great being Amarr, aint it?
Sir Bart Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2006.12.01 01:36:00 - [44] Originally by: Siakel It's more likely that we'll still see far more armortanking ships than shieldtanking, as most shield-tanking ships don't actually shieldtank for PVP. There will be more armor tankers, but ships like raven will not be armor tanking anymore just so that they can fit ecm in the mids. Rokh and Mealstrom will certainly be shield tanking. The argument about shield tankers using a em hardener with invuls is the same as saying explosive dmg is bad vs armor tanks since armor tankers all use an extra explosive hardener... it's just not true. Most won't use a photon scattering array because it only helps them against Amarr ships and they are just not that common. Originally by: Siakel -Amarr are perhaps the least capable of using rigs, as the +grid requirement hurts us so much. I don't find powergrid to be a huge issue on Amarr ships. Also, there is a rig that adds 10% grid with no drawbacks if you're finding yourself short. It doesn't cost much calibration either. I have to withdrawl my point about the damage rigs though stacking with heatsinks though. You missed the point anyways. The idea was not that other races couldnt' combine dmg mods and dmg rigs, it was that when Amarr does that it's more powerful since when you have range in a super high dps machine that hits you while you try to close in is very effective (like geddon's that pwn'd with 8 heatsinks in the past). Now if it's true that dmg mods and heatsinks have stacking penalites against each other (nobody has told me how they know this yet) the dmg rigs are useless anyways. I can't see using them on any setups on any race of ships. They have a high calibration cost too... funny, I doubt I would fit them if they cost 10 calibration... they're just not worthwhile. If I want dmg I would fit dmg modules (twice as much dmg increase) and use rigs for the other uses of low slots (armor resist etc). What concerns me is that tanks got such a big boost with the rigs (those tanking rigs are very strong) while damage ships seem to have received very little. (powergrid / cpu rigs will help fit bigger guns but that's it). I want to be able to counter a light dmg heavy tank setup with a light tank heavy damage setup. But it seems that's not the case, the rigs allow ships to tank so good I don't see a way to beat them except with nos. -Bart
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.12.01 01:46:00 - [45] Edited by: Aramendel on 01/12/2006 01:47:32 Originally by: Sir Bart I don't find powergrid to be a huge issue on Amarr ships. cough Sorry, but... You might want to doublecheck that. No time now, but I can provide you tomorrow with numbers how this is no "huge issue" for amarr ships if you insist. Quote: Also, there is a rig that adds 10% grid with no drawbacks if you're finding yourself short. It doesn't cost much calibration either. Utterly pointless as argument because any other race can fit them too. Yes, amarr have more grid than other races, so they get more grid from that rig. But lasers also USE more grind than other weapons (and as result their rigs also cost more grid since it is a percentage cost), so this cancels each other out. Quote: Now if it's true that dmg mods and heatsinks have stacking penalites against each other (nobody has told me how they know this yet) There is a test server. Where you can login to...test stuff. Like rigs.
cy4n1d3	Posted - 2006.12.01 09:22:00 - [46] Originally by: Aeaus Originally by: Sinnbad Mayhem all 3 ships are good if setup right and in optimal fighting conditions i think the point ppl miss in the forums is u pick your battles.. no single ship is dominant...Amarr have thier uses for example a fleet of Apocs and Geddons can camp a system for days...why u ask? simple, NO AMMO required and pretty cool dps from range ...which is where u want to be in PVP nowadays unless your nuts or love NOS :) learn tactics my friend and any BS, including AMARR can make beautiful music That's just the most convincing reason for amarr I have ever heard. I mean, we have pathetically low DPS against 90% of PVP targets due to the proliferation of Omni Tanks, we have pathetic tanking ability without gimping our entire setup, our battleships can't be sniper fitted without dedicating several slots to fitting modules, our capacitors are pathetic even with a capacitor reduction bonus, our cruisers are almost unusuable, in addition we're the easiest to ECM and are weakest to any EW while having very little versitility ourselves bar our Tech II ships. But holy crap guys! We need no ammo! I mean it's not like a Megathron can't have enough ammo in the hold to ask a few days of sniping. Yea, optimal fighting conditions. There aren't very many optimal conditions for amarr, maybe having your enemy being AFK or being in a massive blob where Amarr suckage doesn't matter is one. Amarr is outdone by nearly every race, hell, even Minmatar are dominating Amarr now for a nice turn of events. wtf? idiot whining noob.
TheHyperion	Posted - 2006.12.01 10:33:00 - [47] I was looking forward to maybe getting an extra slot and bigger drone bay.......but alas. Can't afford the Abba anyway.

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