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Sarkos
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Posted - 2003.11.18 07:25:00 -
[31]
I prefer 4x 1400mm's and 4x Makluth Incursions running cruise missiles in my high slots.
Just my opinion
Either free the slaves or we will come and get them.
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XpoHoc
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Posted - 2003.11.18 10:06:00 -
[32]
 Quote:
Yes, if your attacker has a MWD and you not you die. In 1v1.
Wrong. If the ship attacking you is using a Mwd, then there won't be a fight at all. No point in it, because you can't hit him and he could easily run.
If the attacker got Mwd, you just warp away.
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Ana Khouri
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Posted - 2003.11.18 10:17:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Ana Khouri on 18/11/2003 10:19:57
I think it's getting a little out of context here. I already said in my first posting in this thread that it's best to flee/retreat if you encounter someone with a MWD when you do not have one.
That answer was for our "a mwd will kill you if you use it in 1v1" fraction. Where we can agree that this is not true, right?
And the fleeing argument can be used for practically all outfits with optimal ranges of more than 20k. Generally any longrange setups, for example.
And the fleeing only works if you react soon enough. When someone is orbiting you at 15k with a MWD and a warp scrambler it's too late for that.
free speech not allowed here |
Jazz Bo
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Posted - 2003.11.20 12:36:00 -
[34]
Quote:
No reason to use Siege Launchers on a Tempest. Its not a CPU bird. No reason ot use defenders on a Tempest.
I'm not gonna tell you what you should use... cause my setup is my own... however i suggest you nix the Launchers... use Malkuth Incursions instead. Frees up CPU and fires faster ( albeit with reloading every 2 shots ) and you might want to use 1200mm if your skills aren't quite there yet. Work your way up to 1400mm...
Two questions:
1. Why shouldn't you use Defenders on a Tempest?
2. Malkuth Incursions... why? There are better/faster H-50 type launchers too, aren't there?
Originally by: DB Preacher
Celestial Apocalypse - Brave souls fighting the endless smak.
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Paul Dubois
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Posted - 2003.11.20 14:55:00 -
[35]
Maybe she's short on CPU? From memory the Malkuths use less CPU than any equivalent pirate drop launcher.
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Iban Cortez
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Posted - 2003.11.20 19:24:00 -
[36]
lol why bother use defenders... uh cause there a waste... they do no damage to the target ship... and ya so what if they destroy incoming missles... id use more seige man... te temp is a tank and can take more then any other ship in the game...most ppl think its cool to rig there scorps for jamming... but in realliy fof cruiser **** them up huge |
Polux
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Posted - 2003.11.20 22:11:00 -
[37]
Quote:
lol why bother use defenders... uh cause there a waste... they do no damage to the target ship... and ya so what if they destroy incoming missles... id use more seige man... te temp is a tank and can take more then any other ship in the game...most ppl think its cool to rig there scorps for jamming... but in realliy fof cruiser **** them up huge
First of all there is no change to fit more siege on this ship coz of PG and CPU problemst. Having 2 launchers whit defenders is taking some of the work from the shield booster since the torps are doing **** load of damage and having defenders have sawed my ass so far.
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Jazz Bo
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Posted - 2003.11.23 12:02:00 -
[38]
Quote:
Quote:
lol why bother use defenders... uh cause there a waste... they do no damage to the target ship... and ya so what if they destroy incoming missles... id use more seige man... te temp is a tank and can take more then any other ship in the game...most ppl think its cool to rig there scorps for jamming... but in realliy fof cruiser **** them up huge
First of all there is no change to fit more siege on this ship coz of PG and CPU problemst. Having 2 launchers whit defenders is taking some of the work from the shield booster since the torps are doing **** load of damage and having defenders have sawed my ass so far.
Exactly. If I fit in two M-12 Arbalest missile bays (RoF 9.6 seconds IIRC), I can take out the missile output of FOUR Siege launchers.... I'd think that should make a great difference in a PvP situation.
Any other reasons not to use Defenders?
Originally by: DB Preacher
Celestial Apocalypse - Brave souls fighting the endless smak.
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Ana Khouri
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Posted - 2003.11.23 18:17:00 -
[39]
Quote:
Quote:
Not really, MWD's are essential for 1v1. Missle and shot dodging works fine - if you don't believe me I can show you anytime at chaos, just drop me a message.
I will happily take you 1vs1 in whatever ship your in, I will be in my raven and Ill show you how crap a MWD is in 1vs1..
Ok, this is now 1 week old. Toulak has not send me a reply to my message on chaos or tried to contact me on tranq, despite several reminders of me in the forum here, so I assume he got cold feet.
But since several people asked about it I give you a battlereport ... without a battle. I made several testruns with a friend, though, so I'm pretty sure what this setup can do and what not.
As Stoop said, the traditional MWD setup is not working against a misslespammer. It's no problem to get close, but once you are there you'll have problems.
One option would be to get *very* close, so the raven will damage itself with it's missles as well - and will feel my guns, too. Problem there is that it's likely to be possible to tank a raven as much that it can survive that, especially against a low cap/shield MWD setup. And the blowback from the missle impacts is an unknown factor.
A more uncommon outfit is needed. As said earlier, missles *do* have some sort of tracking. Their speed. The fastest missles - not counting defenders - a cruise missles, with a top speed of 2000 ms (if you have a normal missle skill of lvl5). So, what happens if the ship they hunt is faster than 2000ms? Nothing, they will never catch it - unless the target is stupid enough to fly directly towards them.
So, my basic outfit was 1 MWD, 1 AB, 1 x-large booster and 4 nanofibers and 3 cap power relays. I was using a tempest previously, but switched to a typhoon, since I had no use of more than 3 med slots anyway.
That outfit had a max speed of 4500ms and was able to orbit another ship with 2500 ms at 15-20k. Problem there was that guns were not able to hit the enemy, so my weapons were limited to 4 missle launchers.
Any ship without a MWD shouldn't be able to kill such a setup, it's weapons cannot hit it, it's missles are too slow.
There is a problem there, though. Orbiting is not really working well for highspeed ships because of the bouncing effect, which can last minutes, during those you are a sitting duck. Just equip a ship with a MWD on autorepeat and try to orbit something, you'll see what I mean.
So, you have to do the orbiting manually. With a speed between 2-3ks your distance can vary widely to the target, I had 10-40k in my test runs. Which will make the use of a warp scrambler - if it would be required - tricky. With a little practice it is possible to keep a distance of 15-19k, though, I pulled that off once. But you need a lagfree enviroment for that.
The ravens only option is to keep his shields up, so we'll end in a draw. No idea if that is possible against a cruise missle spam, didn't test it. Defenders could help, too, but using them against an ship orbiting you is tricky.
Anyway, if anyone want's to prove me that a MWD is death in 1v1 feel free to call me on chaos  
free speech not allowed here |
Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.11.23 19:05:00 -
[40]
Quote:
Anyway, if anyone want's to prove me that a MWD is death in 1v1 feel free to call me on chaos
Okay:
Rifter + MWD vs anything with a gun 
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Ana Khouri
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Posted - 2003.11.23 21:59:00 -
[41]
O-kay. I take a rifter with a a3 launcher and you take any frig with any civilian gun mounted
free speech not allowed here |
Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.11.23 23:22:00 -
[42]
Quote:
O-kay. I take a rifter with a a3 launcher and you take any frig with any civilian gun mounted
Sorry, I specified a "gun". Civilian equipment are placeholders
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
J3tt
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Posted - 2003.11.24 02:05:00 -
[43]
lol half the stuff you guys say is wierd and will just get you dead
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Can your pod outrun a cruise missle? |
Ana Khouri
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Posted - 2003.11.24 19:45:00 -
[44]
Quote:
Sorry, I specified a "gun". Civilian equipment are placeholders
Well, since you gave me a rifter when I specified "ship" and not "little thing which makes *splat* when it hits my BS windshield" it's only fair that I give you a civilian blaster when you specified "gun"
free speech not allowed here |
DREAMWORKS
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Posted - 2003.11.25 11:19:00 -
[45]
I'm going to buy a tempest pretty soon, when.
And im sure about several things:
Im NOT going to mount defenders, since defenders target the first missle no mather the ammount defender slots your using, but against a missle boat its 1 missle every 4 missles shot thats taken down. Not due to the rof of the defenders, but by the time the closest one is taken out by defender 1 you can launch defender 1 again.
Thus the effect of a defender is minimal.
I wouldnt put on a mwd, cuz the cap limit that i need for shield, after having once a cap bug ill never use mwd for pvp again... It freaks me out to know i have less cap than i could have. Shield also is VERY important for me.
I would use:
x5 1400mm Howitzer Artillery
2x h-50 arbalest and S-110 Siege after the cpu patch comes thats on testing now.
1x silent sensor targetting for a nice tactic
And in large battles i would go for:
x4 1400mm Howitzer Artillery
4x h-50 / siege
for mid slots i dunno what to use.. i got some orions and other modules waiting, but because of the jammingsensitive layout of the bs, i would chose some +2 to all eccm on low slots and some f-90 sensor boosters.
__________________________
http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html |
Hallinskide
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Posted - 2003.11.25 12:26:00 -
[46]
Quote:
Im NOT going to mount defenders, since defenders target the first missle no mather the ammount defender slots your using, but against a missle boat its 1 missle every 4 missles shot thats taken down. Not due to the rof of the defenders, but by the time the closest one is taken out by defender 1 you can launch defender 1 again.
Are you sure about that? While most of my experience with defenders is based on NPC hunting I think that after the first incoming missile has been destroyed the remaining defenders just turn to the next one.
I did very often fight 4+ Ascribers and they spit out quite a lot missiles but I did not take a single hit most of the times with 2 H-50 full of defenders for defence, which could hardly be if you are right.
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